aimco has found jesus and we hold meetings in churches

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romany in Saginaw, Michigan

85 months ago

no joke.

last year, our budget meeting was held at our RVP's church. I still have the pamphlet i took from the lobby - Sawmill Covenant Church in Powell Ohio. We were there on October 17 & 18th, 2006. Is that not hilarious?

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Charlie in Tampa, Florida

85 months ago

That depends on what the relationship was with the church. I once worked for a very large corporation and while in training at the Jersey office they ran out of office space for the training so they rented space from the local Catholic High School.

It was a bit weird to have a bunch of grown men in business suits hanging around a school full of teens wearing uniforms and teachers wearing habits but a relationship did not exist other than just renting the space.

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unknown123 unknown in somewhere, Ohio

85 months ago

UNBELIEVABLE!!! WHO CARES WHERE YOUR BUDGET MEETING WAS HELD!!! WERE YOU ASKED TO SAY A PRAYER BEFORE YOU SUBMITTED YOUR BUDGET??? NO!!! AGAIN I SAY UNBELIEVABLE!!!

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fatcat in Chicago, Illinois

85 months ago

I have to agree with Charlie from Tampa. If this RVP held a meeting at HIS church, that over-steps socially accepted boundaries in the workplace. If this guy had a personal connection to this church, it was unprofessional for him to hold meetings in his church. I also have to say that a church is not a neutral environment for business meetings. It implies a certain "atmosphere" that may be present in an organization. It is insensitive to the possibility that the attendees of the meeting may have other belief systems and implies that in order to be accepted in an organization, one should share the same religious values as the persons in the "power position" - in this case the RVP. It could be viewed as form of religious persecution, psychologically speaking. I don't know about you, but prayer before submitting a budget is always a good idea (lol) but not a meeting in a church. That's in poor taste, profesionally and socially.

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Homer in Eureka Springs, Arkansas

85 months ago

I couldn't disagree with you more. I would find it very comforting for my boss to be proud of his belief in God! I would also expect him to hold himself to the absolute highest standard of conduct as well as myself. I want to associate myself with people like myself. I am always disappointed when PROFITS are more important that PEOPLE! If you are uncomfortable maybe you should have a private conversation about it.

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Homer in Eureka Springs, Arkansas

85 months ago

My first thought would to be ask you what being from Arkansas has to do with anything? You talk about discrimination and tolerance yet your first response is anything but that!!! I don't beleive I mentioned Religeon at all in my comment. I am sure if you spent some time reading your Bible and not just listening to someone's interpretation of what it means you may find some clarity in His existance. I guess I would assume you have had a fairly trouble free life. I have had many life experiences that have made me uniquely who I am today. I am sure at some point in your life you will find yourself with your back against the wall with no where to turn but to God! It has been my personal experience that when you are at that point you will be given the strength and direction to get yourself to where you were intended to be. Until that time.... God Bless.

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hammandcheese in Newark, New Jersey

85 months ago

Homer,

Thank you for taking the high road. You are right. I should not have made that Arkansas dig, however, you know that the South is infamous for its religious right thinking and has a history of intolerance. That said, let me respond by saying that I have studied all world religions, including the bible. In the bible, if you will recall, Jesus overturned the tables of the merchants selling their goods in the synagogue. His message was that the synagogue was no place for commerce and we can extrapolate that in commerce, Jesus, God, Religion, Budda, Krisha,Alla, whatever, should not be a factor. Another quote, "Let that which is Caesar's" - again, Jesus references the necessary separation between church and state. The greater point that i am making is that no employee should be subjected to the personal religious pressures exerted by their "exaulted leaders" who are attempting to create their "little empires" staffed with people who believe as they do. It is only when we step outside of our comfort zone and enjoy the company of people who are not like we are, that we live in a truly open and liberated society.

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hammandcheese in Newark, New Jersey

85 months ago

continued.....

Regarding my "trouble free life". Not exactly. Actually, quite the opposite. I can assume that a lot of my troubles have probably been self imposed, but those views are always clear in retrospect. I do believe in a higher power. Don't have any proof, just a belief. I do know that i do not have the right to exert those beliefs upon my employees or others in the workplace. Its personal and should remain personal and when someone like this RVP in Michigan holds a meeting at his church, he violates the trust that his company has placed in him - to be a leader in commerce. He also violates the trust of his employees who expect him to be a neutral leader and decision maker. How can he maintain neutrality if he is imposing his religious beliefs upon those who may not share his perspective? If he wants to be a minister, let him go to seminary. This is a "hot topic" for a reason. Mankind will never agree on religion, therefore, religion should be kept in the church. To do otherwise is taking a monumental step backward in human evolution.

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Charlie in Warrenville, South Carolina

85 months ago

Homer in Eureka Springs, Arkansas said: I would find it very comforting for my boss to be proud of his belief in God!

And what if it were the other way around, Homer? What if your boss happened to be a Satanist and held the meeting at an obscure location where the blood (of an unknown origin) from a recent offering was still dripping off the table? Would you be comfortable there as well?

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Charlie in Warrenville, South Carolina

85 months ago

Homer in Eureka Springs, Arkansas said: My first thought would to be ask you what being from Arkansas has to do with anything? You talk about discrimination and tolerance yet your first response is anything but that!!! I don't beleive I mentioned Religeon at all in my comment.

Come now. You can't be that dumb. His reference to Arkansas was to you being more or less in a rural setting instead of a more cosmopolitan environment where you'd likely encounter and understand diversity of thought.

You DID mention religion in that you mentioned God. I personally believe in God but not in Jesus. I also believe that people have the right to not believe in God if they wish and it isn't my place to try to change them. As "hamandcheese" implies. I could be very wrong about God and so could you.

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Homer in Eureka Springs, Arkansas

85 months ago

I would not participate in the meeting nor would I continue to work for this person. I do find it interesting all y'all are getting up in arms about the meeting being held at a church. I feel each of you are jumping to conclusions. Charlie in Tampa points out that it may have been nothing more than a convenient business arangement. It may also have been the opportunity to get away from the distractions that inevitably happen in an office setting. Budget meetings usually require large stretches of uninterupted time. Exactly those circumstances could have been offered there.

Now, for my friend ham and cheese. The kind of life troubles I am referring to are not the type of you own making. How about CANCER, Kidney Failure and Transplantation, near fatal car accidents? With the exception of the car accident I am not sure that I had any control over the rest. None of them was brought about by bad living, booze, dope, etc. While in the middle of it you can't imagine WHY!!! After the fact you come to realize it makes you stronger not weaker. I certainly struggle on a daily basis to do the right things but as we are all human I frequently fall short of the mark. In closing I will leave you with one simple message to reflect upon; Trust the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understand. In all ways acknowledge him and he will make your paths straight. Take a moment to reflect on that and then tell me where it comes from. God bless.......

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hammandcheese in Newark, New Jersey

85 months ago

I am sorry for your circumstances and understand your perspective. Personal faith - Its all good, just not at work. (oh btw - rumor has it that the RVP touts his Christianity regularly and makes decisions based upon his religious moral code) oh boy.

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Homer in Valles Mines, Missouri

85 months ago

Charlie in Warrenville, South Carolina said: Come now. You can't be that dumb. His reference to Arkansas was to you being more or less in a rural setting instead of a more cosmopolitan environment where you'd likely encounter and understand diversity of thought.

You DID mention religion in that you mentioned God. I personally believe in God but not in Jesus. I also believe that people have the right to not believe in God if they wish and it isn't my place to try to change them. As "hamandcheese" implies. I could be very wrong about God and so could you.

I am actually in a very cosmopolitan environment. While St Louis, Mo is no Warrenville it is the home of the 2006 World Series Champs, GO CARDS. I just choose to have my computer pointed to Arkansas to confuse the likes of some of you good folks. I would suggest you reflect on what religeon is. I think you would agree it focuses more on the ritual and doctrine and less on the belief of! I have been fortunate to have found a place where the pastor's thoughts are very simple, what does the Bible say? I find a great deal of comfort in this. Having grown up in the Catholic church I was as turned off by religeon as most people have become. I got lucky though and found the right place at the right time. One last question, how can you be from the great state of South Carolina and not believe in Jesus?

God bless........

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hammandcheese in Newark, New Jersey

85 months ago

Do you guys remember the last presidential election when David Letterman did a revised map of the US? The East and West Coast were blue and labeled "The United States of Canada" and the middle part was red with "jesusland" imprinted across it. Now that was funny. I know a lot of people in the midwest. There really isn't a lot to do there. Eat out, go to a movie, sometimes they bring in really bad off off broadway shows for the middle america set, the zoo, ball games and of course, CHURCH. You can drive down any street in the midwest and count more churches than you can anything else. The question is, "which came first, the church or the middle US?". Europe is smart - they settled all of this religion debate hundreds of years ago. When our collective intellicts mature, we will probably get there. Live and let live. Follow the laws (employment and otherwise) and keep your noses out of other people's private choices. If you are an employer, stick to business. Its not a difficult concept.

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Charlie in Warrenville, South Carolina

85 months ago

Homer in Eureka Springs, Arkansas said: Trust the Lord .... tell me where it comes from.

It comes from the Christian propaganda and was written by men. "Lord" means someone with authority over a group or an estate. "The Lord" is Christian propaganda and inappropriate preaching here on this forum.

BTW, I AM the same person as Charlie from Tampa and as I implied and fatcat clarified, IF the boss had any other relationship to the church it would be inappropriate. You come here and state that you think it is okay even if the relationship existed and that is what we are "up in arms" about.

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Charlie in Warrenville, South Carolina

85 months ago

Homer in Valles Mines, Missouri said: One last question, how can you be from the great state of South Carolina and not believe in Jesus?

You are a damed hypocrite, Homer. You chopped down Hamandcheese for a remark about where your IP is reported then expect me to be Christian because of where my IP is reported. Hang on... I will go offline and right back and who knows what city the server who serves the message will be in.

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Charlie in Miami, Florida

85 months ago

Well lookee thar, Homer. Now I am in Miami. I suppose my religious views must have changed now? Most Hispanics are Catholic so should I now be expected to espouse that religion, being here in little Mexico?

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Homer in Valles Mines, Missouri

85 months ago

Charlie in Warrenville, South Carolina said: It comes from the Christian propaganda and was written by men. "Lord" means someone with authority over a group or an estate. "The Lord" is Christian propaganda and inappropriate preaching here on this forum.

It actually is Jewish not Christian. The book of Proverbs was written by the Lords annointed King Soloman. You will find that specific quote in Proverbs 3:5-6. It is only appropriate to capitalize as the beginning of a sentence or in reference to God. Your comment "written by men" implies that you might feel there are other things capable of writing?? How about written by what?, monkeys, trees, the endangered California Condor, Barney, Jeff Gordon, The Intimidator, WHAT?

Maybe it is best you don't try to be so clever. "Resistance is futile" say the Borg.

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Charlie in Miami, Florida

85 months ago

hammandcheese in Newark, New Jersey said: The East and West Coast were blue and labeled "The United States of Canada" and the middle part was red with "jesusland" imprinted across it. Now that was funny.

You are right. That IS funny and probably fairly accurate. We will have to relabel the country now though and mark the bottom half "Los Estados Unidos de Mexico"

The thing with Europe is very accurate. When you have countires where there are houses still being rented that are older than this country you can bet they have solved a few problems that we are still haggling over.

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Charlie in Miami, Florida

85 months ago

hammandcheese in Newark, New Jersey said: keep your noses out of other people's private choices. If you are an employer, stick to business. Its not a difficult concept.

I totally agree. I have always found it funny that Christians will use quotations from the bible to make their points in a religious debate when the people they are debating with don't hold the bible as any authority at all.

You might as well say "Well it was written on toilet paper that Charlie is right." :)

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hammandcheese in Newark, New Jersey

85 months ago

i have never laughed so hard as i just have reading these posts. Absolutely hilarious! We ALL sound like zealots of our own design. I think we have lost the point. The point is that this RVP in Ohio (i said michigan earlier, didn't read that the church was in ohio) is discriminating by imposing religion (whether or not it was just meeting space) by holding a meeting at his church. Its blatant discrimination and if i understand Title VII law correctly, it is unlawful to discriminate based upon religious preference - whether spoken or implied. The meeting place IMPLIED a religious preference. Its subtle, but i think its fairly accurate. I wonder how his employees felt about having a meeting at his church? Does he have jewish or muslim or agnostic employees? I'll bet he does. I would not want to work for that guy. They should file an EEOC complaint against him.

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Homer Simpson in Eureka Springs, Arkansas

85 months ago

Mmmmmm......Donuts.....

I am pretty sure we all take ourselves way too seriously!! The sad thing is we all have time to sit around here and profess the rights and wrongs with the world instead of doing something about our own situation. Who here actually is working in a job they are satisfied or fulfilled with? Not the money but the work. I thought so. Who wants to try to do something different and maybe have an impact on not only your own life but someone else's as well. Post some ideas and let's see what sticks.

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Charlie in Fort Lauderdale, Florida

85 months ago

Homer Simpson in Eureka Springs, Arkansas said: Who here actually is working in a job they are satisfied or fulfilled with? Not the money but the work.

I work in law enforcement and I love it because I love to help see that offenders get busted and put away. The money is good too. I am retired and work part time just to buy luxuries that the Social Security check doesn't cover so in a way I am working almost entirely because I love the job.

But you are right, we do all take ourselves very seriously. The advantage of an internet forum is that we can settle our differences without being arrested for disturbing the peace.

Eat my shorts, Homer! No, no! I meant the other Homer. No. Don't throw that donut! If it lands on the carpet I'm telling Mom.

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Libera Me in San Diego, California

85 months ago

Since it appears that indeed and aimco are offended by the use of the word fascism, here is an scholarly interpretation of the term:

Fourteen Defining
Characteristics Of Fascism
By Dr. Lawrence Britt
Source Free Inquiry.co
5-28-3

Dr. Lawrence Britt has examined the fascist regimes of Hitler (Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco (Spain), Suharto (Indonesia) and several Latin American regimes. Britt found 14 defining characteristics common to each:

1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism - Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.

2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights - Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.

3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause - The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.

4. Supremacy of the Military - Even when there are widespread
domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.

5. Rampant Sexism - The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Divorce, abortion and homosexuality are suppressed and the state is represented as the ultimate guardian of the family institution.

to be continued

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Libera Me in San Diego, California

85 months ago

Controlled Mass Media - Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.

7. Obsession with National Security - Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.

8. Religion and Government are Intertwined - Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.

9. Corporate Power is Protected - The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.

10. Labor Power is Suppressed - Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.

ked.
Obsession with Crime and Punishment - Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.

13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption - Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect

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witchone in Hartford, Connecticut

84 months ago

That is really interesting and so true. All anyone has to do is look at what is going on in our country to see that we really are dealing with a government and a corporate world that operates this way. Hopefully with more education and awareness the people will oust these ideologies just as they did with Hitler, Mussolini and others. Luckily these things dont last forever and the oppressors and jarheads will be back at the bottom of the food chain where they belong. We need a major world awareness shift and i don't think that there is a lot of room for this mentality in the long term. Blessed Be.

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cowboyjay in Unknown, Ohio

84 months ago

It's time for you to move on. The budget meeting was almost a year ago! Religious beliefs were not pushed on anyone or even mentioned for that matter. Find a job and move on!

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enuf in las vegas, Nevada

84 months ago

Couple of points from an objective observer:

1. Doesn't matter when this meeting was held - it was held in an inappropriate venue and from what i have read here, it is relevant and appears that there is a cultural precedent within this organization.

2. Moving on is absolutely the best medicine and has happened from an emotional perspective. This is strategy. It can be difficult to find a job when one's immaculate work history has been defamed by an inept "leader". Combine that with an incestuous business and a region full of small minded gossips and one would find it very difficult to achieve that goal. That is why defamation of character suits and other legal actions are often necessary. One Napoleon was enough! and the funny thing here is all that had to happen was to allow an exodus with dignity, but that would be "lie". Sure thing - read the Marge Simpson post. This guy lies with ease. Real Christian, that one.

3. Moving day will happen when certain requirements are met. Not a minute sooner.

See ya in the funny papers "Chief LW".

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