How to get a job at BAE SYSTEMS.

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Host

Do you work at BAE SYSTEMS? How did you find the job? How did you get that first interview?

Any advice for someone trying to get in?

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Karen Cornelio in Bronx, New York

91 months ago

How can I get an entry-level job position at BAE SYSTEMS?

Thank You,
Karen Cornelio

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danny in Lanham, Maryland

91 months ago

how can i get an entry level for electrical engineer at BAE SYSTEMS?

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Jake_EE in Elyria, Ohio

89 months ago

Thanks for help, and yes I must say I just learned how to "navigate" the voice mail systems of companies to get some names. :-)

Why can't BAE or any company post job ads after they win the contracts? Or at least when they have a very good idea that they will get a contract? Does it take that long to interview and hire people? I thought there was some time before the contract went into effect?

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Jake_EE in Elyria, Ohio

89 months ago

I am in the Cleveland area so I will have to move where ever I find work at any BAE facility.

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Patty in Carlsbad, California

89 months ago

Do you have any recommendations for preparing for an interview with BAE (engineering)?

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Christopher in Fort Wayne, Indiana

89 months ago

I work for BAE Systems in Fort Wayne as a Product Test Engineer (electrical engineering). I got the job through an intermediary company that specializes in finding potential employees for other companies like BAE. The company I went through was MGT Associates, google them to get more information about them. Companies like them usually get through the barriers and can actually talk to real people, which is what I liked the most about them.

As for interviewing, I reviewed as much material as possible from my engineering classes. Be prepared to have an entire day of interviews with potential managers and senior engineers. MGT gave me some guidelines for the first visit I made (I took an exam the first trip down, it was used to weed out most of the candidates since they didn't really know engineering at all). The second trip involved both analog and digital electronic schematics which I had to read and explain. It won't be as bad as you think, especially if you've just graduated from college, but expect the worse and prepare accordingly so you have an edge over the competition.

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thermodyne in Minneapolis, Minnesota

89 months ago

looking for H.R. contact info. @ mpls, MN. facility, specifically towards layout welder postings.

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Jake_EE in Elyria, Ohio

88 months ago

Hey Christopher in Fort Wayne,

Is the MGT Associates you talked with in Fort Wayne?

When I googled them the closest companies returned were a health care related place in Scottsdale Arizona and some place called Texas Mgt Associates. The second one is related to services in the technical field but all their work is in Texas(very few positions open).

Do you have a telephone number for them, web page address, or city in which they reside?

You can always email information here to my account if indeed does not allow the posting of specific information. Thanks.

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Christopher in Fort Wayne, Indiana

88 months ago

Jake,

I had trouble as well trying to find them again online. Use the website below:

mgt-a.com/pages/1/index.htm

Another great place, probably even better than monster.com is Dice.com. It's a job search site for engineers.

Good Luck with your job hunting!

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Jake_EE in Elyria, Ohio

88 months ago

Cool, thanks Christopher!! :-)

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DC in Burke, Virginia

88 months ago

Jake_EE in Elyria, Ohio said: Thanks for help, and yes I must say I just learned how to "navigate" the voice mail systems of companies to get some names. :-)

Why can't BAE or any company post job ads after they win the contracts? Or at least when they have a very good idea that they will get a contract? Does it take that long to interview and hire people? I thought there was some time before the contract went into effect?

Having worked for government contractors in the proposal area, I can tell you that they do not want to inccur any overhead that can't be billed to the customer, so they make contingent hires for positions required in a new bid. They would tell the candidate that the hire is contingent on contract award so they're covered but the job seeker is still unemployed.

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Jake_EE in Elyria, Ohio

88 months ago

Hey Christopher in Fort Wayne,

How do you like working at BAE so far?

Think your stay there will be until you retire, or do you think you'd like to job hunt again? Thanks.

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Patty in Carlsbad, California

88 months ago

Host said: Do you work at BAE SYSTEMS? How did you find the job? How did you get that first interview?

Any advice for someone trying to get in?

I just started at BAE. So far the only thing that seemed to help is my ability to get government clearence quickly. I think it's a roll of the dice to get an interview and position. I sent a resume in after i finished college a couple years back, found another job and worked with if for a while. Amazingly BAE called me right after my other job lost funds and I got laid off. I like it so far.

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Jake_EE in Elyria, Ohio

88 months ago

Sorry for getting off the topic but I want to get an evaluation copy of some cicuit simulation/pcb design software.

What's big in industry now? Orcad or Altium? Or something else?

Orcad is easy to get and Alitum sure does make a big production out of it just to get an evaluation copy.

Thanks.

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Jake_EE in Ohio

85 months ago

Rangerdog in Nashua, New Hampshire said: As far as my experience with BAE Nashua - if you are over 45 = forget it. I went through 2 interviews with two separate parts of the division over a 6 week period. One multi-person interview took over 5 hours and I talked with 4 or 5 people. Not a peep for 6 weeks (I assumed it was dead).
Then another "come in for an interview" call. It was a different division but a carbon copy of the first one - but shorter and with fewer peoople (several managers were on travel). The last guy I talked to indicated I'd "hear from HR very soon".

Well, I sure did - 3 days later I get a "thin" lettr saying: "thank you for your interest, you are very highly qualified, it was a tough decision, we cannot offer you a position, please apply again"; the usual baloney.

At the time I applied and went through this humpty-dumpty, there were three (3) jobs open!
Overall, a complete waste of my time.

IMHO, "Highly Qualified" on BAE-speak means: 1) You really are 2) You want too much money; 3) You are too old (I'm a Boomer). 4) all of the above.

Reapply? Thanks, but no thanks!

I wonder if your interviews were related to this:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCbFEgFajGU#qR_g3S40kj4

I recently went to a retail store and they pounded me for 50 minutes with questions--all for a cashier type job. (I'm an unemployed Electrical Engineer). My guess is they wanted to have a clear conscious to find a reason why they could not hire me.

It's a new franchise store with a middle east decent owner (some kind of foreign decent).

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Tuan Newlin in Fort Wayne, Indiana

84 months ago

Christopher,

I have been trying to get into BAE in Fort Wayne.
How hard is it? I have over 11 years of experience in automotive and find it hard to get into other industries.
Any insider tips in getting an interview?

TN

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Christopher in Fort Wayne, Indiana

84 months ago

Tuan Newlin in Fort Wayne, Indiana said: Christopher,

I have been trying to get into BAE in Fort Wayne.
How hard is it? I have over 11 years of experience in automotive and find it hard to get into other industries.
Any insider tips in getting an interview?

TN

What job are you looking for? This plant is a terrible place to work if you're out of school, with a degree, looking for a job that will advance your career. You won't be able to move anywhere in here.

LONG story short, the union has way too much power, are too lazy, and complain ALL THE TIME about EVERYTHING. The management has turned a blind eye to all of this and refuse to acknowledge there is a problem with the work ethic on the floor. The management is only concerned about image and not about substance (our product) yet they always seem upset when product ships which wasn't manufactored properly (in my opinion it's the only time they have to at least attempt to acknowledge how bad their managing really is). The engineers are stuck in the middle trying to make the best, most logical decisions we can, but the union seems to actually want us to get in trouble (they try to impede on our ability to do engineering work), and the management seems only interested in finding the easiest way out of tough problems, especially if their incorrect.

I could talk, at length, for a long time about what I've seen here but in short unless you're only interested in getting your minimum amount of experience required straight out of college to get that cool job you've always wanted (everybody always wants 2 or 5 years minimum of experience right?) this is not the place for you.

Lastly, this is my opinion only and does not reflect others at my plant (well, it does I'm sure, at least for the engineers anyways).

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Jake_EE in .

84 months ago

I am an Electrical Engineer and applied numerous times at BAE. You and your engineer coworkers I guess did me a favor. So thank you for saving me from all the headaches and stress.

Christopher in Fort Wayne, Indiana said: What job are you looking for? This plant is a terrible place to work if you're out of school, with a degree, looking for a job that will advance your career. You won't be able to move anywhere in here.

LONG story short, the union has way too much power, are too lazy, and complain ALL THE TIME about EVERYTHING. The management has turned a blind eye to all of this and refuse to acknowledge there is a problem with the work ethic on the floor. The management is only concerned about image and not about substance (our product) yet they always seem upset when product ships which wasn't manufactored properly (in my opinion it's the only time they have to at least attempt to acknowledge how bad their managing really is). The engineers are stuck in the middle trying to make the best, most logical decisions we can, but the union seems to actually want us to get in trouble (they try to impede on our ability to do engineering work), and the management seems only interested in finding the easiest way out of tough problems, especially if their incorrect.

I could talk, at length, for a long time about what I've seen here but in short unless you're only interested in getting your minimum amount of experience required straight out of college to get that cool job you've always wanted (everybody always wants 2 or 5 years minimum of experience right?) this is not the place for you.

Lastly, this is my opinion only and does not reflect others at my plant (well, it does I'm sure, at least for the engineers anyways).

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Williamsmith40258 in Louisville, Kentucky

70 months ago

That sounds like the Louisville facility that the incompetents run the office and the facility at large. While the lazy unionists are doing nothing but trying to stay clean and work free. At which the Dunkin Donut shaped union steward and his incompetents won't bring up any pertinent issues. Its a fine place to work otherwise, snicker

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Chuck Yeger in Enola, Pennsylvania

63 months ago

A couple of years ago I attended a Career Fair for BAE Systems in York, PA. The Fair started at 10:00 AM and was scheduled to end at 4:00 PM.
I arrived at 10:15 AM and my last interview was at 5:30 PM. (Never had a break the entire day!)
My name was called 5 times that day because my skill sets include industrial engineering and supply chain management. Each time they called me I was elevated up to the next level.
Everyone I interviewed with was very impressed with my background, especialy because I had both a technical and business background. The last person I interviewed with asked me my job preferences based on available openings and he indicated I would be a good fit for at least 5 of the open positions. He told me I would definitely be getting a call within 2 weeks. Well that was 2 years ago. I wrote down the names of the Managers I had interviewed with during the day and followed up with them, but to no avail.
To this day I cannot figure out what had happened. I have a very clean record and had U.S. Gov't Security Clearance at the time.

One person on the inside indicated there is a "good ole boy" network in place at BAE, York, who takes care of their own. So does this mean the company does not hire the best and the brightest?

As far as applying on-line. That's a joke. I do not know of anyone (inluding myself) who ever got a call by applying on-line.

In short, it sounds like you have to know someone within to get your foot in the door with this company. In the meantime I've moved on to greener pastures.

News Flash (9-1-09):
BAE York will be movng their tracked Howitzer Production to Yuma, Arizona in the near future to cut down on transport costs. Yuma, is where they are tested. Expect job losses at York.

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Musket104 in Nashua, New Hampshire

63 months ago

Be younger than 45 years old and you MIGHT have a chance! I'm 61 and wanted to see if the rumors were true. I believe they are.

Seriously, I went throught TWO interview sessions, 4 weeks apart, for Sr. Planner/Scheduler jobs at BAE Nashua. Took about 5 hrs each. Usual "you are a very strong candidate" nonsense. Talked with 3 people on 3 levels.
First bunch - never heard anything. Second - I did get a "thin" letter thanking me for my interest.

IMHO, they already had someone on deck from inside the company for these 2 slots and had to interview a number of applicants to "fill the square".

They obviously do no want some geezer working there for 5 years, qualifying for their pension, and retiring.

BTW, their desk person in the lobby was the rudest, most unprofessional and immature person I have come across in a long while. This guy told me to "go use the phone around the corner" to call the HR office to tell them I was there. No one answered and I left a voicemail.

I waited in the lobby while he engaged in what was obviously a personal phone call for 15 minutes.

When he hung up, he asked me it I was still there for something! The HR person I talked with definitely heard about his nonsense!

I'm honestly glad I did not get the job.

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Frizbone in Nashua, New Hampshire

48 months ago

BAE just laid off a bunch of older workers today. It is most likely because they do not want to provide pensions to them - and new hires do not get any pension at all for working there so I'd forget about this place. Come retirement time, they'll say: "It's been real, it's been nice, but it hasn't been real nice..." - THAT is if they don't lay you off the week before you are scheduled to retire. I worked there when it was Sanders/Lockheed and let me tell you - When I left that Canal Street building for the last time, I never looked back.

Their vacation benefit still sucks as bad as it was years ago. I left there for MIT and their benefits are light years better than Sanders/BAE ever was - and their pay is better - despite paying Mass income tax and commuting. My regret is that I wasted 7 working years for Sanders. Also, I don't miss the BS and the massive non-common sense bureaucracy that abounds there. It is a wonder that BAE makes any kind of profit at all. Senority means nothing. they will use up the best part of your working life and then throw you out like yesterday's newspaper.

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Rhino in San Diego, California

41 months ago

Don't bother, unless you want to pay a $3000 a year deductable on each family member for health care. It's ridiculous. And the plan doesn't cover anything unless it is 'preventative'. A stress test is not preventative. Labs and appts for diabetes are not preventative. My son had a mole removed - cost us $500. It's an f'ing joke. Who at BAE set up this new health plan should be tarred and feathered and paraded down Main street. Look for a company that actually cares about their employees...

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Union Advocate in Rochester, New York

39 months ago

With all due respect, your comment about the Union has way too much power is entirely inappropriate. You shouldn't be upset that there is an entity that is willing to stand up for workers' rights. As with any company, there are people who may take advantage of things, but the overwhelming majority of our membership body realize that they need to do what is necessary to stay profitable to work to keep our business in Fort Wayne for a long period of time.

There is something we are doing right or we wouldn't be continuing to hire and bringing additional work into the Fort Wayne area. You have a right to your comment, but I believe you are wrong. If you are upset about your benefits, if you don't feel you have a say in the workplace, do something about it. Don't be mad at the people that have fought for that right.

________________________________________________________________(Response from Chris)
LONG story short, the union has way too much power, are too lazy, and complain ALL THE TIME about EVERYTHING. The management has turned a blind eye to all of this and refuse to acknowledge there is a problem with the work ethic on the floor. The management is only concerned about image and not about substance (our product) yet they always seem upset when product ships which wasn't manufactored properly (in my opinion it's the only time they have to at least attempt to acknowledge how bad their managing really is). The engineers are stuck in the middle trying to make the best, most logical decisions we can, but the union seems to actually want us to get in trouble (they try to impede on our ability to do engineering work), and the management seems only interested in finding the easiest way out of tough problems, especially if their incorrect.

Lastly, this is my opinion only and does not reflect others at my plant (well, it does I'm sure, at least for the engineers anyway.

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Chris in Rochester, New York

39 months ago

Mr. / Mrs. Union Advocate,

It has been some time since I wrote the comment you are replying to. Since that time I have essentially moved on in a design position, creating technology rather than repairing it. As I've gotten older, I feel I've matured somewhat and would today approach the subject somewhat more professional. My thoughts on your comment are as follows:

1.) BAE Systems is a massive company and provide a large service to America as well as the world. However, when you work for a large company you loose the small business aspect to it, i.e. I witnessed many individuals with extremely poor work ethic. Many would barely work at all during the day. Others were constantly busy; it was clear a large percentage of personal, both on the union side as well as on the salary side could be removed with low impact on production. This may be the case in many large companies, but I can only speak for this particular facility. At the time I was especially appalled at this, and quite frankly, am still appalled today.

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Chris in Rochester, New York

39 months ago

Union Advocate in Rochester, New York said: With all due respect, your comment about the Union has way too much power is entirely inappropriate. You shouldn't be upset that there is an entity that is willing to stand up for workers' rights. As with any company, there are people who may take advantage of things, but the overwhelming majority of our membership body realize that they need to do what is necessary to stay profitable to work to keep our business in Fort Wayne for a long period of time.

There is something we are doing right or we wouldn't be continuing to hire and bringing additional work into the Fort Wayne area. You have a right to your comment, but I believe you are wrong. If you are upset about your benefits, if you don't feel you have a say in the workplace, do something about it. Don't be mad at the people that have fought for that right.

Mr. / Mrs. Union Advocate,

It has been some time since I wrote the comment you are replying to. Since that time I have essentially moved on in a design position, creating technology rather than repairing it. As I've gotten older, I feel I've matured somewhat and would today approach the subject somewhat more professional. My thoughts on your comment are as follows:

1.) BAE Systems is a massive company and provide a large service to America as well as the world. However, when you work for a large company you loose the small business aspect to it, i.e. I witnessed many individuals with extremely poor work ethic. Many would barely work at all during the day. Others were constantly busy; it was clear a large percentage of personal, both on the union side as well as on the salary side could be removed with low impact on production. This may be the case in many large companies, but I can only speak for this particular facility. At the time I was especially appalled at this, and quite frankly, am still appalled today.

(to be continued...)

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Chris in Rochester, New York

39 months ago

Union Advocate in Rochester, New York said: With all due respect, your comment about the Union has way too much power is entirely inappropriate. You shouldn't be upset that there is an entity that is willing to stand up for workers' rights. As with any company, there are people who may take advantage of things, but the overwhelming majority of our membership body realize that they need to do what is necessary to stay profitable to work to keep our business in Fort Wayne for a long period of time.

There is something we are doing right or we wouldn't be continuing to hire and bringing additional work into the Fort Wayne area. You have a right to your comment, but I believe you are wrong. If you are upset about your benefits, if you don't feel you have a say in the workplace, do something about it. Don't be mad at the people that have fought for that right.

I apologize for posting the same comment twice, my browser was updating and it appears sent information two times. To continue...

2.) It is absolutely true to say the union had too much power while I was there. Many examples of laziness / outright theft from the company came from these individuals. I saw time and time again individuals not working, yet claiming time on the 'overhead' charge. I saw individuals constantly 'looking for parts,' never working. One time I was harassed by a union foreman because my normal troubleshooting appeared to her as unit installation. Another time a fire alarm occurred for a test run and several operators, who worked as little as possible, asked immediately if it was 'real' and if they should leave. There were several employees who knew of hiding places in the building, of which I never knew where they went. They could be gone for hours without me seeing them again. Many examples exist, yet when appropriate salaried personal tried to reprimand these people, individuals in power would not in fear of the union.

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Brent Eastom in Fort Wayne, Indiana

39 months ago

I am currently the Union President in Fort Wayne, Indiana. I know exactly the mentality you are referring to you, but you fail to address the underlying issues. We are a Union, we fight to protect our workers' rights and defend the members that we represent.

This doesn't however prevent management from managing. Management has every right to run the business the way that they see fit, and that includes disciplinary action. I have represented many who have gotten into trouble and some who have been terminated as a result.

As I said earlier, the overwhelming majority of our membership is willing to do what it takes to make the Company successful. When I first started, I chose to get actively involved and do something about the nature of the business to protect myself and my family's future.

I understand your frustration, but it isn't fair to run to another Company and scream that this this is the worst business in the world. Simply because it didn't work out for you or you chose not to stick it out, doesn't mean that you point the fingers at the individuals who have been here since the beginning and have worked together to keep this place successful.

We, the Union, work with the Company to do whatever it takes to ensure that work stays in Fort Wayne, Indiana for the long haul and it is a great place to work for the right individuals with the right attitudes.

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Brent Eastom in Fort Wayne, Indiana

39 months ago

As an aside to your secondary comment. Everything you listed is a Management issue, however, our Union members ought to have the same work ethic to realize that their productivity levels affect the rest of us and the future of our business.

We do what we can to constantly remind people that our productivity as the hourly workforce has a direct correlation with job security and better contracts. That doesn't change the fact that there will always be bad eggs out there. This doesn't mean that the Union is too powerful. There are disciplinary policies out there for a reason. As long as management upholds those disciplinary policies even-handedly and unbiased, then that is what we call in the business, an iron-clad termination. It is up to Management to enforce them.

However, if you fire one person with one strike because you don't like them or you woke up on the wrong side of the bed one day; but don't terminate someone else you do like after doing the same thing 3 times that you terminated the other individual for just one violation, then there is an obvious problem.

This doesn't make the Union too strong, it makes us ensure that disciplinary policies our being doled out fairly without any potential of discrimination.

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Chris in Rochester, New York

39 months ago

Brent,

Since this conversation has moved from opinions about BAE to opinions about unions...
"When I first started, I chose to get actively involved and do something about the nature of the business to protect myself and my family's future."

Why is it you feel joining a union will provide any form of protection? Most people are not in a union today and they seem to do just fine. I think we come from two vastly different angles on this. I believe 'protection' comes from performing exceptional work, having a high work ethic, etc. It has literally never occurred to me joining a union would improve my ability to remain employed. I think if you constantly strive to improve yourself, remain relevant in your field of study, you'll do alright.

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Brent Eastom in Rochester, New York

39 months ago

As I said, the reason I commented on your post was because in your suggestion as to not seek employment to BAE in Fort Wayne, Indiana you attacked the work ethic of the entire general population at the facility.

You can't honestly tell me that people that aren't backed with the protections of a union contract have any real say in whether or not their healthcare premiums triple, whether or not their pensions are frozen, or whether or not they have to work as you well know "casualty hours" for no money at all, or ever receive an honest raise for the work they do.

It seems odd to me that you who lived the life as an engineer at the very same facility I worked at and knew about the salary benefits that you had at that time, and then would ask the question as to why I feel that the Union provides workers protection from attacks from the Company simply saying, "Like it or leave it."

No thanks, I choose to fight for my future, not constantly run because my last employer wouldn't give me what I want. What happens when all Companies are in collusion together and decide to offer the same sorry cheap benefit packages, where do you run to next? I respect your opinion and your stance, but I think you could have approached it a little more tastefully, that is why I chose to respond to you that your generalization that Unions are the problem at facilities is completely off base.

I have 30+ more years to work at the facility and if you think I as a Union official want to protect people that don't assist in the job security at the location that we represent than you are off your rocker my friend. The same reason I am making a response to you attacking the location I work at, I am claiming that Fort Wayne is a great place to work for the right people with the right attitudes. I am simply offering a counter-argument to your initial post that we're a bunch of worthless scum.

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Chris in Rochester, New York

39 months ago

Wow, what a statement, 7 hours ago no less when most people have already been at work for many hours. Either you don't work first shift or you chose to respond while at work.

Part of the hiring process is offering the potential candidate enough compensation to persuade him / her to move to your facility. If you don't like it, don't hire in. Period. It's that simple. If the company looses its edge and begins retracting compensation over time, in this country you have the right to move on somewhere else. I can't believe you actually think, once hired in, you can hold the company through a union to dues you feel you are owed. What an outrageous idea!

You can't honestly tell ME that all the corporations in America, possibly even some across the globe, would conspire together and suppress compensation. Are you kidding me?!

You know how I fight for my future? I work hard to keep my edge in technology on other engineers, which includes most at your facility. Out of this hard work I've achieved a position which provides much better compensation, including benefits, bonuses, paid time off, etc, than anything BAE provided. By remaining relevant and always on top of current technology I can always ensure I will be employable, which as you may know quite a lot of people in this country are not today due to obsolete skill sets.

Perhaps someday my opinion may change, as I've often thought it would be nice to have some security which a union provides. At the same time, I wonder, why join when my salary would likely decrease in half, and if I lost my job today I could move to many technology companies in America and likely receive an offer.

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Chris in Rochester, New York

39 months ago

Brent,

We are evidently the same age as I have 30+ years left myself. I admit I'm wondering how you'll turn out; it's quite obvious unions are, well, as one co-worker told me today "done". They are not the future in this country, except in unique fields such as medical professions through the advent of so many malpractice lawsuits.

I'm curious how your mentality will do. Is joining a union the wise decision in the global 21st century? I don't think so, but it's interesting hearing an articulate argument for once. After my father lost his job when I was a kid, I knew then the best way to prepare for a job loss, which I assume everyday could occur, is to get as good as humanly possible at your chosen profession, and to avoid as best you can dead end career moves. In this fashion I can control my own destiny, and not be controlled by other people's poor decisions (which is what some strikes can be considered). I don't worry about issues you seem to worry about because I am ensuring I am employable for many years into the future.

As fun as this was, I have other things to do, as I'm sure you do too. I need to continue working on my master's degree as well as begin planning on the engineering text book I've been looking to write for three years now.

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Brent Eastom in Rochester, New York

39 months ago

Rest assured I did not post while I was at work, it is amazing, but not a shock, that is all you got from our comments back and forth. I wish you the best, but while I was reading your posts, only one thing could come to mind.

Proverbs 16:18 "Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall."

I will be praying for your future and humility because arrogance is never a very becoming personality trait of men to carry with them.

A wise man once said, "If any man tells you he loves America, yet hates labor, he is a liar. If any man tells you he trusts America, yet fears labor, he is a fool."

-- Abraham Lincoln

Think about it and God Bless!

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Chris in Rochester, New York

39 months ago

Brent you're a good man. I thought the entire night about what I have said, and how I said it. I apologize to you and those you work for; please except this. For what it's worth, several union employees at BAE were the hardest working individuals I met within some time. I think I just had a bad day 44 months ago, to be honest. I was stressed recently as well and should have said things differently on this important forum, and for that I am also sorry.

God bless you as well!

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