Discrimination or Policy? You tell me!!!!!

20 years ago (1989) I got a ticket for urinating outside and it resulted in me having to pay a fine. Upon applying for a sr. underwriter position for Citi I failed to disclose this "conviction" on my application (I had actually forgotten about it and I have passed background checks with, Wells Fargo, Washington Mutual and, Bank of America without disclosing it) and I was denied employment with Citi for non-disclosure.
In the interview I was told I had great qualifications and that I was a perfect fit for the job. But, I did notice there weren't any African-Americans (which I am) in that position in that particular office. I now wonder was I actually a victim of discrimination? I have been in the mortgage business 15 yrs with 8 yrs underwriting experience and, the manager I interviewed with had 2 yrs finance experience with 0 yrs underwriting (he was a college grad with a BA in finance)so, I am thinking he may've been a little intimidated by an African-American having that much experience over him. Just a thought.

Can't we just be friend

oletom in Metairie, Louisiana said: Can't we just be friend

In fact, that is exactly the point I believe. We should be all able to be friends but when a black person starts wailing that he is being discriminated against because of his race when he has admitted he has a criminal record, that is just as bad as a white person using the "N" word. Either situation just perpetuates the hatred.

There will never be true equality until people of all races can understand that rejection can happen to anybody and for many reasons that do not involve race.

I personally believe there is a better chance of the interviewer being put off by the superior experience of the applicant than any racial bias. It probably had nothing to do with race, the interviewer might very well have been afraid the applicant might someday take his job from him.

Oh please, this black thing is getting so old as an excuse.
FYI, whites are now a minority in the USA. If the person who interviewed you was younger than you, there is your answer.

There is so much crap being spewed on this thread, I hardly know where to start. I should first say that I agree that the original poster should have disclosed the previous conviction. However, even with that in mind, having worked in HR and Recruiter in the financial service industry for several years, I find it hard to believe that a 20 year old conviction for something of that nature would have been the sole determining factor in the hiring process. Whether race played a part or not, I have no idea, although I am inclined to say that the candidate's experience was probably quite intimidating to the hiring manager and may have played a greater role in the decision. But I must also comment that those of you who are talking about the "black thing" is an old excuse and black people "wailing" etc., you all must be living a very sheltered life. Racism is by no means a thing of the past, and just because you don't want to hear about it, that doesn't make it any less real for people who have to endure it. And spare me the "whites are now a minority" rhetoric. White people do not have the same history in this country as other minorities, plain and simple. I swear, hearing white people spout off about racism against blacks is beyond annoying. You haven't experienced it, so you don't know what it's like no matter how much you want to bury your head in the sand and deny its existence.

I didn't know that in Jacksonville, Florida said: I had no idea that blacks were not taught that urinating in public is wrong.

You, Sir, are a bigot if you think that your race had anything to do with your being unacceptable. It had to do with the fact you are a liar, Sir. You just finally got caught at it.

Have you never urinated in public? I also notice that everyone of you guys that object to it being racism is white and from the deep south. I'm a recent transplant from California to the south and I really see that racism is alive and well down here. Google the story about the Jena 6 and this link www.mindfully.org/Reform/2003/Tulia-TX-35-Pardoned23aug03.htm and then you tell me if I have a legit complaint.

Check out this posting by Theo Frimpong (an Asian):
Although they claim to be an equal opportunity employer but their practices contradict what they preach. To cut a long story short, I passed an entry exams to join the work force after an interview was scheduled for me.
At the interview, everything went well and the interviewer assured me of how well I did and as such, a phone call will be made to me within the next 48 hours as to when I should be starting my training for the job ahead.
Hours turned into days and days into weeks but I heard nothing (one cannot reach them by phone as well since they know what they are doing)so in the 2nd week after the interview, I personally went to the office to inquire what the matter was just to be told by one of the recruiters that "sorry! we decided to go with another candidate instead". I therefore asked what went wrong and why was I not informed of their decision, she said she doesn't know as to why I was rejected and why their office did not inform me as well.
I then thanked her and left after which I came home and discussed the news with a good friend of mine. To my shock, I learned that I'm not the only victim to such circumstance for a couple of Asians as well as some Africans were victimized in similar manner for no apparent reason.
That might be quite true since I did not recognize any Asian there during my occasional visits to the facility.
My question therefore is: Is this the so-called global business? It is a big shame for the citi staff to embark on such an infamous act of racism and nepotism in this so called modern civilization of which America claims to be a leader fighting for equal rights for all people on the globe!

You guys have no idea what the world is really like. Take off your white hoods and robes and slip into the skin of a minority for one day. You won't have on those rose colored glasses for long.

Sure in Edgefield, South Carolina said: In fact, that is exactly the point I believe. We should be all able to be friends but when a black person starts wailing that he is being discriminated against because of his race when he has admitted he has a criminal record, that is just as bad as a white person using the "N" word. Either situation just perpetuates the hatred.

You actually consider getting a ticket and paying a fine a criminal record? I am quite sure you have had a speeding ticket or DUI or relatives that have. Do you consider them criminals? Lets get real here. I also notice that you said " a black person starts wailing that he is being discriminated against because of his race when he has admitted he has a criminal record". If I were white you might say when you have to go you have to go and there is nothing crimional about that. Chek out this link and you tell me who the criminals were : www.mindfully.org/Reform/2003/Tulia-TX-35-Pardoned23aug03.htm.

I have worked with whites that said if they were on a jury they would automatically think the person was guilty because the police wouldn't arrest you if you weren't. Talk about ignorant and stupid.

When you were there, did you notice the ages of the people who worked there? Are you over 40? Here's what happened to me at Citi and other places.

I've received emails forwarded to me from Headhunters from the client that stated in one of the bullet points that the **right fit would be mid to late 20s.** I've seen this twice in the last 7 years. The last was from CitiBank. I've been searching for full time regular employment only to get short/long term contracts. I'm in IT, Desktop Support. When I call the HH and point out the fact, they get defensive and say that it is an "entry level" (which it's not) position so they are looking for **recent college grads**. I'm entry level for windows desktop support anyway having to take it up at 40 when the company I worked 14 years for went out of business. I can not find full time regular, benefited work in any field at age 40 in my area. I also find a lot of IT support ads claiming to be entry level or high school diploma (low pay rate), but then listing a required skill set that is anything but. I don't think recent high school grads have Lotus Notes experience/skills.

Never, ever believe the empty promises these corporations or head hunters tell you. Keep looking until you have a firm offer.

Joe in Chicago, Illinois said: When you were there, did you notice the ages of the people who worked there? Are you over 40? Here's what happened to me at Citi and other places.

I've received emails forwarded to me from Headhunters from the client that stated in one of the bullet points that the **right fit would be mid to late 20s.** I've seen this twice in the last 7 years. The last was from CitiBank. I've been searching for full time regular employment only to get short/long term contracts. I'm in IT, Desktop Support. When I call the HH and point out the fact, they get defensive and say that it is an "entry level" (which it's not) position so they are looking for **recent college grads**. I'm entry level for windows desktop support anyway having to take it up at 40 when the company I worked 14 years for went out of business. I can not find full time regular, benefited work in any field at age 40 in my area. I also find a lot of IT support ads claiming to be entry level or high school diploma (low pay rate), but then listing a required skill set that is anything but. I don't think recent high school grads have Lotus Notes experience/skills.

Never, ever believe the empty promises these corporations or head hunters tell you. Keep looking until you have a firm offer.

You might be right. I am 39 yrs old and a a very seasoned and experienced mortgage professional. The guy that interviewed me was only 3 yrs out of college, so it may've been age discrimination. I never thought about that factor. Thanks for opening my eyes to another form of discrimination.

Derrick in North Richland Hills, Texas said: I was denied employment with Citi for non-disclosure.

That means a "lie" and it also means the denial of employment wasn't because of the type of law that was broken nor the race of the individual, it was a lie.

I've never heard of a company going back 20 years for anything, unless it's a felony or something severe. On most standard applications, doesn't it ask about your record for the past 10 years or something like that? This whole situation seems weird to me.

Derrick in North Richland Hills, Texas said:
That might be quite true since I did not recognize any Asian there during my occasional visits to the facility.
...
You guys have no idea what the world is really like.

The racism is alive because people (mostly blacks) have complained for forty years no matter what they get. If a white person even tries to treat (some) blacks as equals, the white person is accused of "just trying to look good and be politically correct."

As for not seeing any blacks or Asians or plaid people in the office, did it ever occur to you that it just happened that the white people (or whoever) working there were the best candidates for the jobs? It can happen you know and quite legally. A job opening occurs and since there are more whites than any other race in this country, lo and behold, the first fifty people to apply happen to be white. One of them is hired. What is wrong with that? Should fifty white people wait until a black applies? Should fifty blacks wait until an Asian applies?

As for how the world really is, you need to talk to some black people who have immigrated directly from Africa or from the UK. They will find all this "po black" stuff ridiculous as well. It isn't the color anymore, it is the attitude.

If the seemingly more racial attitudes come from the south it is because the South has more of the blacks with a chip on their shoulder. You go to other parts of the country and blacks act normal and get along fine. Again, it is attitude on the part of blacks. Stop assuming you are hated and you won't be.

All you have to do is look at the slavery reparations thing a while back. Half the blacks opposed it as I remember.

Look and judge for yourself in Jacksonville, Florida said: The racism is alive because people (mostly blacks) have complained for forty years no matter what they get. If a white person even tries to treat (some) blacks as equals, the white person is accused of "just trying to look good and be politically correct."

As for not seeing any blacks or Asians or plaid people in the office, did it ever occur to you that it just happened that the white people (or whoever) working there were the best candidates for the jobs? It can happen you know and quite legally. A job opening occurs and since there are more whites than any other race in this country, lo and behold, the first fifty people to apply happen to be white. One of them is hired. What is wrong with that? Should fifty white people wait until a black applies? Should fifty blacks wait until an Asian applies?

As for how the world really is, you need to talk to some black people who have immigrated directly from Africa or from the UK. They will find all this "po black" stuff ridiculous as well. It isn't the color anymore, it is the attitude.

If the seemingly more racial attitudes come from the south it is because the South has more of the blacks with a chip on their shoulder. You go to other parts of the country and blacks act normal and get along fine. Again, it is attitude on the part of blacks. Stop assuming you are hated and you won't be.

All you have to do is look at the slavery reparations thing a while back. Half the blacks opposed it as I remember.

Your ignorance is astounding. And before you assume anything, I'm not black.

Maybe the problem was that you did not disclose this information in the first place. I am not trying to pass judgement here, but I could see where some people may think of that as trying to lie. So the problem was not the offense, but the fact that they may have percieved your forgetfullness as not being truthful or trying to hide something. Again, I completley understand why you might forget about something that minor, just looking at it from the employers point of view.

Get out the violin.

Tonto in Phoenix, Arizona said: Maybe the problem was that you did not disclose this information in the first place. I am not trying to pass judgement here, but I could see where some people may think of that as trying to lie. So the problem was not the offense, but the fact that they may have percieved your forgetfullness as not being truthful or trying to hide something. Again, I completley understand why you might forget about something that minor, just looking at it from the employers point of view.

You're absopuety right. My thing is I hadn't disclosed it in my 15 yrs in the mortgage industry or for any other job I'd had before that and it was a total non-issue.

Look and judge for yourself in Jacksonville, Florida said: Absolutely not. I wouldn't dream of doing such a thing.

I believe it was back in Roman times wasn't it that they decided that it was a good idea to have a sewer rather than have folks peeing just anywhere? How can a modern man (of any race) consider that that history is wrong and go in a place other than a bathroom? Now are you giving more evidence here that black people think it is okay to pee in public - public as in not in the middle of the woods on a camping trip but in a public place where a police officer can see you doing it?

It was behind a the garbage bin behind a gas station (restroom was out of order)and the police officer said he saw me go behind the gas station and was wondering what I was doing. And no "we" don't think it's okay to pee in public. As a matter of fact I have seen "whites" pee on trees on the golf course all the time. I have been on golf courses that had signs that said "Please use the portable potties and do not urinate on the trees" and this was in prestigious Palm Springs, Ca. So don't give me that self-righteous BS, you're trying to shovel about what African-Americans think. I've been to Jacksonville, Fl and there is a sign next to the river there that talks about a massacre of whites that took place there during slavery, and it was perpetrated by "savage indians and runaway slaves". Now, in my opinion it was the slave masters and the thieves of the indian land that were the savages. Not the people that were fighting to get their land back and fighting for their freedom. That's just my opinion.

Look and judge for yourself in Jacksonville, Florida said: The racism is alive because people (mostly blacks) have complained for forty years no matter what they get. If a white person even tries to treat (some) blacks as equals, the white person is accused of "just trying to look good and be politically correct."

As for not seeing any blacks or Asians or plaid people in the office, did it ever occur to you that it just happened that the white people (or whoever) working there were the best candidates for the jobs? It can happen you know and quite legally. A job opening occurs and since there are more whites than any other race in this country, lo and behold, the first fifty people to apply happen to be white. One of them is hired. What is wrong with that? Should fifty white people wait until a black applies? Should fifty blacks wait until an Asian applies?

As for how the world really is, you need to talk to some black people who have immigrated directly from Africa or from the UK. They will find all this "po black" stuff ridiculous as well. It isn't the color anymore, it is the attitude.

If the seemingly more racial attitudes come from the south it is because the South has more of the blacks with a chip on their shoulder. You go to other parts of the country and blacks act normal and get along fine. Again, it is attitude on the part of blacks. Stop assuming you are hated and you won't be.

All you have to do is look at the slavery reparations thing a while back. Half the blacks opposed it as I remember.

No one is asking for reparations, just equal and fair treatment. I had an underwriting job in Los Angeles, when I interviewed (the owner was white) I was told he pays all of his underwriters 5k per month no higher and no lower. Come to find out he was paying a white underwriter there 6k per month and he started there after I did. I know this because I am friends with that underwriter to this day and we laugh about it.

Look and judge for yourself in Jacksonville, Florida said: The racism is alive because people (mostly blacks) have complained for forty years no matter what they get. If a white person even tries to treat (some) blacks as equals, the white person is accused of "just trying to look good and be politically correct."

As for not seeing any blacks or Asians or plaid people in the office, did it ever occur to you that it just happened that the white people (or whoever) working there were the best candidates for the jobs? It can happen you know and quite legally. A job opening occurs and since there are more whites than any other race in this country, lo and behold, the first fifty people to apply happen to be white. One of them is hired. What is wrong with that? Should fifty white people wait until a black applies? Should fifty blacks wait until an Asian applies?

As for how the world really is, you need to talk to some black people who have immigrated directly from Africa or from the UK. They will find all this "po black" stuff ridiculous as well. It isn't the color anymore, it is the attitude.

If the seemingly more racial attitudes come from the south it is because the South has more of the blacks with a chip on their shoulder. You go to other parts of the country and blacks act normal and get along fine. Again, it is attitude on the part of blacks. Stop assuming you are hated and you won't be.

All you have to do is look at the slavery reparations thing a while back. Half the blacks opposed it as I remember.

You did say "some blacks" right? Why not treat all blacks as equals? YOU'RE THE BIGOT. I would never dream of treating someone of another race anything less than human. I actually don't see color when dealing with my fellow human beings, but it's obvious some other people do. That is what I am eluding to.

Derrick...I think you're wasting your time with the person from Jacksonville, FL. He or she obviously has a very narrow-minded view of black people and I'm sure your energy would be better utilized elsewhere. Now, as for your original topic. Like I said earlier, I find it odd that any company would do a background check that goes back 20 years. But since they did, it seems to me, as someone mentioned earlier, that the issue is that they thought you were being deceptive by not disclosing it (even if it was just an oversight on your part). Wouldn't they only do a background check if they were in the process of extending you an offer? That has been my experience. So it seems strange that they would actually go through the time and expense of conducting a background check if they were already planning to reject you based on something that they saw when you came in for the interview (ie. race, age/years of experience). I do understand what you're saying, but I'm just throwing some additional ideas out there for you. Best of luck to you in your search.

bodc in washington, District of Columbia said: Derrick...I think you're wasting your time with the person from Jacksonville, FL. He or she obviously has a very narrow-minded view of black people and I'm sure your energy would be better utilized elsewhere. Now, as for your original topic. Like I said earlier, I find it odd that any company would do a background check that goes back 20 years. But since they did, it seems to me, as someone mentioned earlier, that the issue is that they thought you were being deceptive by not disclosing it (even if it was just an oversight on your part). Wouldn't they only do a background check if they were in the process of extending you an offer? That has been my experience. So it seems strange that they would actually go through the time and expense of conducting a background check if they were already planning to reject you based on something that they saw when you came in for the interview (ie. race, age/years of experience). I do understand what you're saying, but I'm just throwing some additional ideas out there for you. Best of luck to you in your search.

I know and if I would've remembered I would've disclosed it. You're absolutely right. I still have the offer letter in my drawer. It was jsut frustrating and thank you for being a person of understanding and reason. I know our great nation isn't filled with people like the guy from Jacksonville. THANK GOD!!!!

why don't you just spend you time looking for a job instead of writing on this discussion board! geez

al in New York, New York said: why don't you just spend you time looking for a job instead of writing on this discussion board! geez

I got one dude....

Derrick in North Richland Hills, Texas said: I was told he pays all of his underwriters 5k per month no higher and no lower. Come to find out he was paying a white underwriter there 6k per month and he started there after I did.

There you are. You think that was discrimination because of racial prejudice do you? You admit the person said they were paying no one more than 5K per month. Probably true at that time. Next you admit the person who made 6k per month was hired later than that. The person did not tell you that no one would EVER make more than 5K and the new guy probably was that much better than the rest of you so he got more money.

Trust me, plenty of people are able to command higher salaries for many reasons and it isn't always because of your race.

Derrick in North Richland Hills, Texas said: You did say "some blacks" right? Why not treat all blacks as equals? YOU'RE THE BIGOT.

Again you have it wrong. It is an error to treat all people of one race the same. It is just as illogical to think all black people are good as it is to think all black people are bad. My point was that among all the very normal people you will find some who just will not let the hatred go and believe that whatever happens to them has to be because they are black.

The sheer fact (as you pointed out) that I said "some" blacks indicates it is not a prejudicial view.

bodc in washington, District of Columbia said: I find it odd that any company would do a background check that goes back 20 years. But since they did, it seems to me, as someone mentioned earlier, that the issue is that they thought you were being deceptive by not disclosing it (even if it was just an oversight on your part).

Actually a "background" check is different from a criminal record check. One can check addresses, former employers, etc as a background check for any number of years but any criminal record check will show everything that is on the rap sheet.

Derrick in North Richland Hills, Texas said: I know our great nation isn't filled with people like the guy from Jacksonville. THANK GOD!!!!

Perhaps it should be. Take a look at the first post...

"But, I did notice there weren't any African-Americans (which I am) in that position in that particular office. I now wonder was I actually a victim of discrimination?"

"so, I am thinking he may've been a little intimidated by an African-American having that much experience over him"

Take away those two statements (and our discussion of those statements) and you will see that we all agree it was the fact of the non disclosure.

That is my point in a nutshell. If you leave that assumption of racial discrimination out of the mix, then we all agree and we all get along.

Stick in another group to the comments (let's say a tall person) and you will see how ridiculous the statements are...

"But, I did notice there weren't any tall guys (which I am) in that position in that particular office. I now wonder was I actually a victim of discrimination?"

"so, I am thinking he may've been a little intimidated by a tall guy having that much experience over him"

I have found that if you use that method, you can more easily see whether there is really racial discrimination or not. If someone said they told me they would never hire a tall person, then it is clear they got something against tall people. If I said some tall people do such and such, then it is clear I am not against all tall people. If I said ALL tall people do such and such it is quite a different story.

kindred in Greensboro, North Carolina said: I swear, hearing white people spout off about racism against blacks is beyond annoying. You haven't experienced it, so you don't know what it's like

I do not see any indication of any person claiming to actually be white in this thread so that in itself is an assumption. Besides, what is wrong with a discussion about racial issues? An expression of a point of view is not "spouting off."

What is wrong with me not thinking highly of what some people do? What makes you think I have not personally experienced prejudice in my life?

You see it isn't a "bunch of white people spouting off" after all. That is your prejudice distorting your view of the world.

Hmmmm in Boca Raton, Florida said: I do not see any indication of any person claiming to actually be white in this thread so that in itself is an assumption. Besides, what is wrong with a discussion about racial issues? An expression of a point of view is not "spouting off."

What is wrong with me not thinking highly of what some people do? What makes you think I have not personally experienced prejudice in my life?

You see it isn't a "bunch of white people spouting off" after all. That is your prejudice distorting your view of the world.

Unless a person is black, then no they have NOT had the same experience as a black person that has endured discrimination, regardless of whether you have endured some other form of prejudice or not. That's just common sense that anyone with any knowledge of US history should know, and I don't care if you're white, black, yellow or paisley. If you read my post you will see that I was clearly referring to discrimination against blacks, and I made no assumption about whether or not others are the recipients of any other type of prejudice, so your point is moot. My view of the world is not distorted, but nice try. Your assumptions are quite comical though. And the last time I checked, "tall" people did not have a history of being discriminated against in this country, so that comparison is beyond silly. Just like you have the freedom to express your point of view (as you described it), I have the freedom to express mine as well, regardless of whether you like the terminology I used or not. And yes I do consider it to be spouting off when people describe blacks as "wailing" when referring to the possibility of discrimination. I didn't ask for anyone to agree, as I don't really care if they do or not. I stated my opinion just as others stated theirs. I don't recall using the term "bunch of white people..." as you quoted above - check your facts next time.

kindred in Greensboro, North Carolina said: Unless a person is black, then no they have NOT had the same experience as a black person that has endured discrimination, regardless of whether you have endured some other form of prejudice or not. That's just common sense that anyone with any knowledge of US history should know,

That statement is basically BS and you should know it. Discrimination, prejudice, rejection, you name it, is the same for every human who experiences it. The idea that somehow blacks are special and that they suffer worse than anyone else when faced with such rejections is a load of crap, Jack. Blacks are by no means special in that respect. History shows that not even all blacks were enslaved, just a few who were taken to different parts of the world and only one of those parts was the USA.

As far as history is concerned, it is history. Not entirely, but the discriminations against blacks began to be eliminated probably before you were born. Slavery ended over 150 years ago in this country. The enslavement of blacks was not an act of just white people by any means and when slavery existed in the US, slaves were bought at a significant price. The plantation owners would not generally mistreat them anymore than a modern farmer would walk out into his field and start beating his tractor with an iron pipe. Certainly some slaves were mistreated but it wasn't the normal course of events.

I personally have spoken with people who remember first hand what it was like when their family had black slaves. I have personally listened over the years to blacks wail (yes, "wail") about how they are so woe-begotten because of the history.

Have you ever heard of Dr, Martin Luther King, Sir? In the midsts of the integration battles of the 50's and 60's that man had a Ph.D. Now if the situation was so bad for blacks then how did he manage to get his Doctorate? He himself was proof that you can succeed no matter what.

Hmmmm in Orlando, Florida said: That statement is basically BS and you should know it. Discrimination, prejudice, rejection, you name it, is the same for every human who experiences it. The idea that somehow blacks are special and that they suffer worse than anyone else when faced with such rejections is a load of crap, Jack. Blacks are by no means special in that respect. History shows that not even all blacks were enslaved, just a few who were taken to different parts of the world and only one of those parts was the USA.

As far as history is concerned, it is history. Not entirely, but the discriminations against blacks began to be eliminated probably before you were born. Slavery ended over 150 years ago in this country. The enslavement of blacks was not an act of just white people by any means and when slavery existed in the US, slaves were bought at a significant price. The plantation owners would not generally mistreat them anymore than a modern farmer would walk out into his field and start beating his tractor with an iron pipe. Certainly some slaves were mistreated but it wasn't the normal course of events.

I personally have spoken with people who remember first hand what it was like when their family had black slaves. I have personally listened over the years to blacks wail (yes, "wail") about how they are so woe-begotten because of the history.

Have you ever heard of Dr, Martin Luther King, Sir? In the midsts of the integration battles of the 50's and 60's that man had a Ph.D. Now if the situation was so bad for blacks then how did he manage to get his Doctorate? He himself was proof that you can succeed no matter what.

Just a little math here... I was 12 and she (97 year old daughter of a slave owner) was 4 when her father had slaves. She was 85 years older than I. I am 64 and add 85 years to that and it equals 149 years. The Civil war ended in 1865 and that was 149 years ago.

The end of segregation was in 1954. Are you 53?

Here is some interesting history.

www.americancivilrightsreview.com/slaverycurrierives1.html

I sit and talk to people from Jackson, Mississippi all the time (my in-laws are from there) and, they tell me how the whites in that area would hire them to do jobs around the house (my father in-law is a general contractor) and at the end of the job, they'd decide they wouldn't pay him with money (because they figured he didn't need any) but would give him food from their refrigerator. He tells me when he was there working they only let him through the back door and he couldn't go any further than the kitchen (if he was doing work on the outside of the house). He also talks about how they would refer to him as "boy" and even when desegragation happened, they had a window on the outside of restaurants for the blacks to order their food from. My grandmother told me about instances (after segregation in Virginia) she went to an ice cream parlor and they just ignored her until all the white customers had been served first (even the white customers that had come in after her) and in some instances they just would not serve her. Oh and by the way she had a BA in business management from Bethune-Cookman in Virginia. I have an uncle that teaches law at Appalachian School of Law (he got his BA from Cal Berkeley and his law degree from Stanford) and he tells me about the racism he goes through on almost a daily basis to this day. So do not begin to try and lecture me about what African Americans go through in dealing with racism. As I have stated I come from an educated family, my father graduated from Cal Berkeley, Step-mother from Sacramento State University, Sister has a medical degree from Temple, my Aunt has a chemistry degree from Cal State Hayward, brother is going to NYU for drama, sister sudying for her law degree and my wife is also studying for her law degree. And this is in the midst of still dealing with racism on almost a daily basis. Do you still think we believe it's okay to pee on the street? I thought the gas station had a rest room that worked.

You guys are right, I commited a crime and it came back to bite me in the butt in this instance. But do not even begin to down play what is still going on in America. I know this isn't a perfect system because it's run by humans with opinions, but the ignorance or choice to ignore a still festering issue is absurd. Do not speak on issues you have no experience with, things have gotten better due to laws that have been put in place. But why did laws have to be put in place so that your fellow man could have equal treatment? The very same people that commited these atrocities in the 30s, 40s, 50s and 60s are still alive and are teaching their children and grandchildren those same values. Why do you think the KKK andNazi Skinheads atill exist? It certainly isn't the fact that we're all living in harmony now. The people that are in those organizations have day jobs people, they go to work, hire and fire people, they shop for their families and, do everyday chores like the rest of us. But, they have a different ideology than the majority of the citizens and they're spreading that ideology as far and wide as they can. Like I said read about what has been happening in Jena, LA with the Jena 6 and that may open your eyes to what is really going on.

Derrick in North Richland Hills, Texas said: But do not even begin to down play what is still going on in America. .

I have an errand to run just now so not a lot of time to properly respond but just to say my intention is not to downplay instances of racism that still exist but to try to teach you how to change it. To continue to hate because of the mistakes others have made perpetuates the hate just as much as neo nazis are doing.

There are solutions to the problem but there is no solution if you keep bringing up the past. If you try to see the glass half full instead of half empty, things will change and have changed.

Look to the future.

Get over it already!
You are not the first person in the world to be discriminated against. Every interview on go on now I'm obviously discriminated against.
Citi is a bunch of butt kissing snooty-snoots anyway.
Get out of Texas too.

Derrick in North Richland Hills, Texas said: would give him food from their refrigerator. He tells me when he was there working they only let him through the back door and he couldn't go any further than the kitchen (if he was doing work on the outside of the house).

And during that time, people who did not have money would do the same thing to the local physician - pay him with a freshly killed chicken or eggs. To this very day, people who do work outside the house are generally not entered through the formal front door as though they were attending a grand social reception. Most owners of very fine estates do not enter and leave through their own front door. Nobody wants mud and grass on their carpets. That is not racial discrimination.

Derrick in North Richland Hills, Texas said: He also talks about how they would refer to him as "boy" and even when desegragation happened, they had a window on the outside of restaurants for the blacks to order their food from. My grandmother told me about instances (after segregation in Virginia) she went to an ice cream parlor and they just ignored her until all the white customers had been served first (even the white customers that had come in after her) and in some instances they just would not serve her.

I'll give you that point as I lived through that era. I remember thinking as a small child that somehow whites and blacks must drink different kinds of water like cat food is different from dog food. Why two water fountains I would ask my parents. There was one fellow who owned a restaurant and after segregation, he stood outside his restaurant with a baseball bat, daring any black to enter. He was later elected Governor of Georgia.

Derrick in North Richland Hills, Texas said: Do you still think we believe it's okay to pee on the street? I thought the gas station had a rest room that worked.

Obviously you though it was okay and still do. Personally I would pee

Ooops. Overrun there

Derrick in North Richland Hills, Texas said: Do you still think we believe it's okay to pee on the street? I thought the gas station had a rest room that worked.

Obviously you though it was okay and still do. Personally I would pee in the floor of my car before I'd pee outside in public. I usually have some sort of empty or half empty windshield waser container in the trunk of the car and it isn't against the law to find a secluded place to go in the empty container in relative privacy inside the car. They even make special containers for that for private pilots of small planes. There are just so many alternatives.

Derrick in North Richland Hills, Texas said: Do not speak on issues you have no experience with, things have gotten better due to laws that have been put in place. But why did laws have to be put in place so that your fellow man could have equal treatment?

I do not have to be deaf to speak on issues of deafness why should I not have an opinion on racial issues? Why did such laws have to be enacted? For similar reasons that the United States of America was formed to get away from the rule of an English King. In the Civil War the US was split into two separate countries over the issue. In essence, your side won so what are you complaining about? If the Confederacy had won that war you might very well not even be allowed to use a computer today.

Derrick in North Richland Hills, Texas said: The very same people that commited these atrocities ..... have a different ideology than the majority of the citizens and they're spreading that ideology as far and wide as they can.

And my point is that you are helping to spread it as well when you jump to the conclusion that racial discrimination exists just because you didn't see another person of your race in an office.

As for the neo nazis, etc still existing that is a matter of freedom. No matter how we may hate that ideology they have the right to express their beliefs and viewpoints. During desegregation there would be a rally one week hosted by the black community to voice support and the KKK people would attend. The next week, the KKK would hold a rally and the blacks would attend. The police were always there to protect both groups from each other. That is freedom.

I had to comment, I'm a recruiter and agree with what you said, I have a hard time believing that public urination 20yrs ago was the sole reason for not being offered the position, it could have been intimidation, a poor refererence, an equally qualified candidate with no criminal past and it definitely could have been racial. I have clients request candidates be certain colors, ages and sex's...discrimination absolutely exists, it always will.