What's the company culture at Epic Systems?

Every business has it's own style. What is the office environment and culture like at Epic Systems?

Are people dressed in business casual, jeans and t-shirts, or full-on suits? Do folks get together for Friday happy hours and friendly get-togethers?

What is a typical day in the life of an employee at Epic Systems?

Friends don't let friends work for Epic. What's a typical day like? Well, if you not one of the 50 or so in the elite inner circle, your workday starts at 7 a.m. and ends about 11 p.m. That lasts until you die or quit. So, office attire is very casual and in need of laundering because you don't have time or you've forgotten where the washing machine is. There's no internal communication, so mushroom management rules. And Judy Faulkner, founder and president, is a control freak, albeit a sheltered one, who isn't above rewrite "the truth" to suit her own needs. Consider that as of two years ago, more than 75 former employees had successfully sued the company, reaching "no-fault" out of court settlements.

Epic has a casual culture which is great. Also there is an open door policy so everyone is very friendly and unintimidating- even when you just start. 45-50 hrs/ week is the average but you enjoy what you do so it isn't bad at all. Overall you are a very well treated employee and it is a good place to work- no matter what "Chunky Guy" says.

Chunky Guy is the same guy who cries and whines on every blog about Epic and says the same UNTRUE garbage. The only person here until 11pm is Judy. Most people on my team work about 40-45 hours a week, maybe a little more right before a release deadline. Arrive at 9ish, leave at 530-630 is the norm. No one is holding a gun to your head to stay and work longer. If you worked as many hours as you claim Chunky Guy, which I'm sure you didn't, it was your own fault.

hey josh and LT, or anyone, (PS, chunky guy, pls do not comment, lol)

kindly tell me more about the guys needing to travel alot. are the travels by air or road and please tell me more about the city and economics/social life outside the workplace. also, kindly tell me whats expected at the on-site interview. please help! i think i like the company and i hope it works out for me. thanks.

Hey,
I have an interview at Epic this week, and in my email from them I was told to "dress casual." What does this mean? How should I dress?

Has anyone seen any black people at Epic?

Yea I've seen a few, this is Wisconsin, so not many. At the last staff meeting they showed a slide that had flags from all the home countries of Epic employees, and I'd have to say there were like 50+ flags up there, so I'd say there is pretty good diversity considering our location.

And dress casual means dress casual, jeans, khakis, whatever, just don't look like a slob.

Finney in Madison, Wisconsin said: Epic is completely screwey. They make it seem like their casual dress code is something to be proud of, when really it's like that in a lot of places. I work for a similar company in Madison, and the people who don't meet the public on a regular basis there dress casually as well. Same with other places I have either worked or interviewed.

Epic also will NOT hire you if you have any previous work experience or maturity. I waited to go to college and graduated at 26. Myself and a 24 year old and 30 year old friends all applied at Epic and ALL got rejected. All of us graduated in the top 5% of our classes and were well qualified. I then heard directly from someone that works there that the top age they "prefer" new hires to be for QA and writer positions (which is what we applied for) is 23!!! The problem with us was that we had goals and experience, and would know right off that Epic is NOT the way things are in the real world.

There are so many better places to work, and strangely enough I got FOUR offers from other companies, including one of Epic's competitors...so I guess there was nothing wrong with any of my skills.

LOL, just because you don't have the skills they are looking for you scream discrimination? Did it ever occur to you that they hired someone better qualified for the position? There aren't too many writers at Epic, I can imagine they don't hire for that one as often as some other larger positions. Judging by your poor attitude you wouldn't fit in at Epic anyway, I wouldn't want you on my team because you sound like a pompous ass. Now I'm not sure if pompous ass is a protected class, but it sounds like Epic made the right choice not to hire you. I just got a new person on my team today, and he has two kids...so unless you know for a fact that every single person they hire is 23, which I can tell you isn't true, than I would shut up if I were you.

My poor attitude? I didn't berate anyone personally as you have done. I'm just pointing out that Epic isn't the only place with a "casual" dress code, and obviously there is nothing outright obviously wrong with my attitude or my qualifications since I got 4 other offers.

It is commonly known that Epic doesn't hire you if you're "too old", judging by Judy Faulkner's comments that "it takes 3 years to turn someone into an Epic Person and it doesn't work on older workers"...or one ones with experience or maturity.

Your holier than though attitude fits in quite well there, I'm sure.

Finney in Madison, Wisconsin said: My poor attitude? I didn't berate anyone personally as you have done. I'm just pointing out that Epic isn't the only place with a "casual" dress code, and obviously there is nothing outright obviously wrong with my attitude or my qualifications since I got 4 other offers.

It is commonly known that Epic doesn't hire you if you're "too old", judging by Judy Faulkner's comments that "it takes 3 years to turn someone into an Epic Person and it doesn't work on older workers"...or one ones with experience or maturity.

Your holier than though attitude fits in quite well there, I'm sure.

You think 24 or 26 is too old? That is where you flaw in logic comes in. Yes, there are a lot of young people at Epic, yes many of the people they hire are right out of school, and that is what has been working for them. Saying they hire younger people and saying you didn't get hired based soley on your age are two different things. I have friends who have applied and not gotten jobs here and Epic doesn't tell you why, so rather than blame them for discriminating just accept the fact they hired someone else, you got other offers, so why so angry at Epic?

3. Which brings me to: Where else does it take TWO MONTHS or even more to even get an interview or a decision regarding an entry-level job? Being a new grad, obviously things I applied for were entry level or close. Everywhere I applied I had a phone screen, then an in-person interview, and then a hiring decision one way or the other. Epic wants the most hard-up grads that will do anything to make money.

4. They're elitist. Like I said casual dress code is a lot of places. I don't need edamame in my salad at lunch. The campus is an expensive eyesore.

5. The "culture" is creepy. Monetary incentives for doing sports and other things only with people from work? Being "turned into" an Epic Person? Being told that taking comp time YOU EARNED is stealing from the company? It's not a culture, it's a cult.

Not hiring me doesn't make a company bad. All the above stuff does.

I would like to state that I'm 25, nearly 26, and I was recently hired for a QA position. I think that Epic has a pretty good idea not just of the skills they want, but what sort of person would fit in well in the positions/teams they are specifically hiring for. Also, consider the possibility that some of the exams they gave at interview might have more to do with how you deal with completely foreign material, with your ability to think on your feet and adjust. Which, given everything that I have had to learn since getting hired, seems pretty valuable. Graduating from college with a good GPA does not mean everything.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that Epic is a private company, they have the right to hire who they want with whatever process they want. I say more power to them.

The Bad Continued...

2. Management (Part 2): Epic doesn't have "managers." They have team leads and group leads. A team lead usually directs a team of 5 to 7 employees. A group lead directs a subset of team leads. There are 24 year olds in the team lead role and I know of a 28 yo as a group lead. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, except the only quality needed to become a team lead is a strong work ethic. That's it. I sat in on meetings to determine who should get promoted as a team lead and it only comes down to work ethic. As a result, there is an overwhelming lack of leadership throughout the middle ranks of the company...and here's the kicker: work ethic is basically determined by hours logged. I became rather efficient at my job 3 years in and my output in 50 hours of work was often the same as someone putting in 70+ hours. People skills, communication, etc was rarely a factor. I was fortunate to have 2 competent team leads when I started but I was the exception to the rule. They "train" the newly promoted team leads but that training is a joke. If an employee needs or asks for direction, there's a good chance the advice or attention will be medicore at best. It's kind of a free-for-all so unless you have the ability to manage yourself, you might have problems working at Epic. Team and Group leads have very little pull in the company and they promote them as such.

3. Judy. She's not crazy like some may say. She's just strange. If you've dealt with her in the past, you'll understand what I'm saying. She's great for the company as the customers have great faith in her leadership. The company is her baby and she probably averages 90 hours/week. However, I think lack of a life has really skewed her vision. If you work closely with you, God Bless You. She's beyond demanding. She's mostly pleasant but if she's putting in 90 hours, she expects those working directly with her to do the same. She's the ultimate micro-manager.

The Bad Continued...

4. The Big Benefits. The 401k was poor until recently. Now it's average. The bonuses are pretty weak (probably since the company pours most income into the new campus). The health plan is good for singles. If you have dependents, it's below average. There's no pension (which isn't a shock since most companies are moving away from pensions). The vacation is very weak. After 7 years, I was still at 3 weeks of vacation (first 2 years was 2 weeks) and you can only bank 8 days. Holidays are weak as well. 6 holiday days total per year when most companies I know are at 7 or 8. There are no personal or "my" days and sick days are 6 per year, which is alright but the company gives employees no incentive to save sick days. You need to go 10 years without taking a single sick day to realize a benefit upon retirement (haha).

5. Hiring practices. If you're 30 yo+ or worked for another company for more than a couple of years, I wouldn't bother applying. The odds are stacked against you for those 2 reasons. Now and then I'd see a new hire not directly out of college but it was rare. Basically what I'm saying is if you fit this criteria, I'd color your hair to hide any gray and I wouldn't emphasize past work experience. Then you might have a fighter's chance. Epic just wants young, impressionable folks roaming the halls of the campus. That allows for controlled costs in labor and it hides the drawbacks with the company because the newbies don't know any better. You would see some gray-haired folks at Epic but they're almost always employees that have been there for 10+ years.

Forgot to add a positive: The sabbatical. It's pretty sweet. 4 weeks of paid time off every 5 years of employment and the company will help with travel costs to a foreign country you've never visited during that time. There is a minimum number of days you must spend abroad but it's still worth it.

Now the Bad continued (BTW, I'm detailing the "bad" more than the "good" because I feel like it needs more of an explanation. I'm not going to spout off negatives without paiting someone what of a complete picture).

6. The Hours: It's a crapshoot. Some get assigned to projects or customers that are more demanding than others. If you're unfortunate enough, 60 hours per week is easily attainable. Let me be clear: certain roles in the company are less demanding, to the point where 45 hours is not uncommon. QA and tech writers fit that description. They closely resemble a traditional 40 to 45 work week. Implementation, developers, and tech services/EDI are a completely different story (those 5 roles are the most common in the company). One of my good friends still with Epic easily works 65 hours per week and he's been doing so for the past 4 years. I averaged roughly 50. Some weeks more. Some weeks less. What I'm saying is if you're applying for one of these 3 roles, it's a roll of the dice for the number of hours you need to put in to be competent at your job. Low end is 45. High end is 70. Most in these roles average around 50 to 55. If you try to fit a 60 per week job into 50 hours, meaning you're falling behind and not finishing things on time, you won't last long. Just warning everyone. It can be a revolving door for those with less than 2 years at Epic. Either there's a burnout aspect to the job or you get nudged out the door. If you survive 2 years, then either you were lucky like me or you can withstand 60+ hours consistently.

The Bad continued...

7. Leaving Epic. If you want to stay in the industry(HC IT), they make it tough on you. My non-compete agreement pertaining to working for customers in my contract expired a couple of years ago but that doesn't matter. Epic has non-compete agreements with the actual customers stipulating that the customer will not pursue a current Epic employee for employment (makes sense) OR an ex-employee for a period of time after their employment ended with Epic. For recent hires of Epic, the non-compete is much more strict. I think it's 1 year in your contract. As for the timeframe in the contracts with customers, it's 6 months for older customers (been a customer for more than a couple of years) and 1 year with new customers. If you want to go the consulting route, you'll find the same problem. Can Epic really prevent this type of employment? Yes. Not in a legal sense as they're basically worthless stipulations but they can "blackball" you. It happens. If you bypass either end of the non-compete (either in your contract or Epic's contract with the customer), they will flag you as blackballed, meaning Epic will not certify you (important), nor will they take your calls or respond to emails, 2 very critical things if you work with the EMR for a customer. If you're viewing Epic as a stepping stone job into the HC IT world, forget about it. It doesn't matter the reason for your departure from Epic as the rules stand firm regardless of the situation. What you'll find out that the experience you gain from working at Epic only translates well in HC IT. Switching industries basically means you're starting over. This is true for 3 of the big 5 positions (implementation, developers, tech services/EDI). This is an anomoly for companies, preventing employees from working for a customer. Epic knows they can burnout employees and life can be much more enjoyable working for a customer. BTW: Epic keeps the non-compete in customer contracts quiet.

Summation:

I liked working for Epic. On some occasions, I felt overworked but usually I felt I was being paid well for the 50 hours I averaged. Benefits outside of the sabbatical are poor and management is the main reason Epic is experiencing severe growing pains. The outlook for the company is upbeat, mainly due to the nature of HC IT and it's overall growth and the fact that Epic has a good product compared to the competitors (the product is worse than when I started but most every other vendor has bigger problems). Job security exists if you work hard. The campus is amazing and I mostly woke up every morning and didn't hate the fact I had to go to work. Epic will make your life difficult if you try to leave and stay in the industry and Judy is the unquestioned leader of the company but she's an odd duck and she's trying to lead the company as if it's 1995 when the company had 10x fewer employees and customers.

One other quick negative: The main programming languages are Cache/Mumps (server) and VB (client). Both are obsolete and Cache is rarely used at any IT shop. Don't expect those skills you learn from programming in those languages to impress another IT company. Epic is transitioning to a web-based client (.net platform) but VB will still be used for a long time since that project is giagantic.

If you're looking for a nice paycheck in the Madison area (and you're bright and driven), the company may be for you. If you viewed the negatives I've listed and cringed in any way, I'd steer clear. It's the truth. I miss working for Epic but I know many who left that felt the exact opposite.

After reviewing my posts, I forgot to expand on the private offices. It's not so private for new hires. You'll be doubled up with another employee for at least 3 years or until Epic can build more building at the campus to house everyone. When I left, 30% of the company was still working in traditional office building throughout Madison and not in Verona. If you're assigned to a team in that 30%, you'll more than likely be in a cube or still doubled up with someone else. If you reach the team lead role or work for the company long enough, you'll then get your own private office. That was my experience at least. 5 new buildings are set to open in '09 but the company can't keep up with the growth in number of employees so I expect at least 40% of the company to double up for the next 3 to 5 years.

I worked at Epic for two years before leaving to go to graduate school.

I've written a series of blog posts on how the company is like a cult. While I ultimately conclude that the company is NOT a cult, they do exhibit a lot of cultish tendencies.

blog.thebriz.org/2008/08/what-is-a-cult-part-1/

Who does the hiring? Is there a certain name I should address my cover letter to?

I'm going to be as open as possible about this--do not apply to Epic. Hell, don't even think about applying. From what I gather, developers are the only ones who have tolerable jobs.

First off, the company doesn't give a crap about their employees. There's a reason that the average Implementation person is only there for a year and a half...they work them to death. They woo you with the campus, great food and casual dress policy, but you'd be nuts to believe any of it. I remember one week I was yelled at by my TL for "getting more done than anyone on the team but not working enough." Now, I apologize if efficiency is something to be frowned upon, but that's definitely not the world I live in.

I left after working there less than a year for grad school, which I was planning on doing before I started, so I never got in over my head. I mean, the cool thing is that everyone you'll meet is your age, smart and fairly outgoing, but it gets tedious when every conversation you have outside of work is about work. I have friends making $65k/year and working 80 hour weeks. That's absolute madness--these aren't doctors or attorneys making six-figure salaries, they're employees not making enough to justify those kind of hours.

Every month, there's a staff meeting with popcorn and "soda." They actually charge for soda at the cafeteria while all juice is free, saying it's part of keeping everyone healthy. Of course, you won't find a single item for lunch that has less than 600 calories...they really load up on them. The first month after I quit Epic, I lost 10 pounds because I was able to exercise daily and make my own meals. They also don't have a gym or daycare for parents on campus--Judy, essentially the tyrant who runs the company, claims that it's because she doesn't want to have "golden eggs." She's convinced it's going to take away from productivity, which is absurd.

(continued below)

Now, the monthly meetings are Epic's opportunity to glorify themselves. They basically talk about their sales, how great of a company they are, and how their ratings are so much better than everyone else. What they don't tell you, is that their software is actually not very good--it's just the best of the worst. I mean, there were so, so many issues with it. People may think this post is coming off as bitter, but I would still encourage people to just say NO to Epic. The company is a sweatshop and is awful to work for. My advice? Apply elsewhere.

CoralK in Madison, Wisconsin said: I would like to state that I'm 25, nearly 26, and I was recently hired for a QA position. I think that Epic has a pretty good idea not just of the skills they want, but what sort of person would fit in well in the positions/teams they are specifically hiring for. Also, consider the possibility that some of the exams they gave at interview might have more to do with how you deal with completely foreign material, with your ability to think on your feet and adjust. Which, given everything that I have had to learn since getting hired, seems pretty valuable. Graduating from college with a good GPA does not mean everything.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that Epic is a private company, they have the right to hire who they want with whatever process they want. I say more power to them.

Just so you know, being a private company doesn't mean you can hire however you want to. The laws still apply.

I had several interviews and tests with EPIC. I would not have bothered to apply had I read through this blog. The interviews were pleasant and I did well on them, however, it's disturbing that there are (presumed) young people on this blog basically stating that it's okay for EPIC to discriminate against older workers. It's not. In fact, it's a Federal crime to even ask a question that would elicit a response that reveals the applicants age. A FEDERAL CRIME. In my second interview with EPIC I was asked half a dozen questions that were designed to pinpoint my age. It was blatant. I took an additional test and then got a message from them that said they were going with applicants whose skills better matched the position. I have no problem with that as long as "being younger" wasn't one of the skills used to make the decision.
Regardless of whether EPIC is a private company, they still have to follow Federal law. In fact, they owe much of their sales to legislation like the Federal HITECH law which helps hospitals mitigate the cost of implementing their software. It's nice how EPIC can benefit from one set of Federal laws while obviously violating another set of laws. Neat.

Listen young kids at EPIC from someone who's been around the block more than you. Any company that wants young people to work for them over experienced older people does so for only a few reasons. 1) They want to pay nothing. 2) Kids are easier to treat like garbage and will be impressed with fancy offices and low pay 3) Kids can't tell a crummy manager from a good one.

That's it.

ya make me worried, but that's a good thing :)
so my question here is..

even if I don't work for the company itself, is it still possible to get EPIC certified and work elsewhere?
Good choice or not?

Any other higher paying jobs, then EPIC?

@ouch..
You do not have to be an Epic employee to get Epic Certified.

Good choice if you work with Epic. Bad choice if you do not work with the EMR.