Unrealistic expectations

Let me tell you the life of a recruiter. We hear every single day that we dont call people back, we cant find them jobs, we don't pay well enough, and that we make so much money off of them. I understand that finding a job is a very stressful point in one's life. However we are not recruiting for one single company. We are constantly learning about new companies, positings, laws and interviewing 5-10 people per day. Not all of those 5-10 people are going to get positions and I'll tell you normally why. They swear during interviews, they are unrealistic about pay and command $15 dollars per hour even though all they have ever earned was $11. They have moved around from one company to the next, get horrible references, answer their phones during the interview, or have absolutely no skills. ...we as recruiters get paid by OUR client (the company) to find them the most suited candidate for the position. We have to remember 1000 people and try to match them up properly with the job. I cannot tell you how many times people have told me "i learn fast".....what you dont understand is that when a company is paying for a service they do not want to invest time in training key points of the positions. They could find that on their own...Also...if we returned everyones call all day long we would be able to do nothing more than return calls/emails. Most recruiters are expected to sell and bring jobs in for you to have, recruit you into the office, spend time interviewing qualifying, and reference checking all employees, as well as processing payroll on a weekly basis, and counseling employees who blow off our jobs to get a "real" job. This is what we are accustomed to, and I have to be honest guys, we are humans too, we make mistakes, but we do work our butts off to help every helpable person that walks in our door. Im sorry for being blunt but I could not beleive how unrealistic some of your expectations are.....

This is a very accurate account of the life of a trecruiter. Not only, is that necessary but we have the people who doesn't realize that the interview with the Manpower recruiter is a real interview! Your first impression is the most important. For scheduled interviews, applicants come in looking unkempt, unprofessional, sometimes inappropriate and unprepared. If this is the impression you are giving a Manpower recruiter, what will you look like at an interview with the client? We work very hard to bring in jobs for our employees and we can't risk our reputation with the client by submitting people who are not qualified, rude or unprofessional.

A recuiter said: This is a very accurate account of the life of a trecruiter. Not only, is that necessary but we have the people who doesn't realize that the interview with the Manpower recruiter is a real interview! Your first impression is the most important. For scheduled interviews, applicants come in looking unkempt, unprofessional, sometimes inappropriate and unprepared. If this is the impression you are giving a Manpower recruiter, what will you look like at an interview with the client? We work very hard to bring in jobs for our employees and we can't risk our reputation with the client by submitting people who are not qualified, rude or unprofessional.

Not knocking you guys, but, do you think these people realize what a bad impression they are making? I see these reasons for this:
1) They're on unemployment and if they make a bad impression, they aren't "turning down a job" - they knwo they won't even be considered. (Not your problem, just the way things are.)
2) They really don't know better. I have 24 years, suits, credentials, professionlism, and refereneces - but not getting calls. I asked a recruiter I respected some point blank questions: is it my breath, overdress, etc. We got down to my resume, yes, great credentials, but, too much info. That 20 minute discussion was everything to me for perspective and job seeking.
Took two days to redo and polish. Bingo - really started getting calls. I honestly didn't know better.

I've mentored 16-18 yr olds "high risk kids" that were to most lost causes. 75% of what they were doing wrong - they didn't know any better. Once communication was in place, most of them turned around and were successful.
With adults, it's a bit harder. But, isn't it worth the try?

I see the ranting and raving, however, some folks just need a little coaching. Didn't someone do that for you at some time?

Sunny Days said:
Not knocking you guys, but, do you think these people realize what a bad impression they are making? I see these reasons for this:
1) They're on unemployment and if they make a bad impression, they aren't "turning down a job" - they knwo they won't even be considered. (Not your problem, just the way things are.)
2) They really don't know better. I have 24 years, suits, credentials, professionlism, and refereneces - but not getting calls. I asked a recruiter I respected some point blank questions: is it my breath, overdress, etc. We got down to my resume, yes, great credentials, but, too much info. That 20 minute discussion was everything to me for perspective and job seeking.
Took two days to redo and polish. Bingo - really started getting calls. I honestly didn't know better.
I've mentored 16-18 yr olds "high risk kids" that were to most lost causes. 75% of what they were doing wrong - they didn't know any better. Once communication was in place, most of them turned around and were successful.
With adults, it's a bit harder. But, isn't it worth the try?
I see the ranting and raving, however, some folks just need a little coaching. Didn't someone do that for you at some time?

I as a recruiter agree with what you are saying, everyone deerves the right to be coached and fix whatever is holding them back however, recruiters do have to watch what we say to people. Someone like yourself seems like a very intelligent person who would listen to the critique, but I have had people fight with me verbally when trying to offer coaching, telling me I didnt know what I was talking about, and even going as far as going to my manager and saying I was purpously "offending" them. This was not the case at all, but some people do see coaching as an attack. If you can however..... it is always the right thing to do to expect someone to improve..........

A recruiter said:
If you can however..... it is always the right thing ..

Thanks for the compliment "intelligent". I've had recruiters tell me that I'm "unrealistic and unreasonable". Why? because I didn't take the Golden Goose job at 40% cut in pay, 50 hrs/wk, etc. Two of these jobs I couldn't even afford to take because I'd work 1.75 weeks/month just to pay health insurance.

Sorry, back to subject. You're so right about the critique- "tricky". My opinion is that these folk know that things need to change and they just don't want to put forth the effort.

As for the "real job". Use the temp job as experience as best they can. If the job seems right, then go permanent. If not, talk with recruiter and most of them are decent type, like you, who'll work with another placement. Stay in the job until find a replacement. However, the other side is, that there may not be another placement - at no fault of the recruiter.

I also had a situation where the "boss" was a total jerk. Prev admin left >2 wks after 6 yrs. He didn't have a clue what she did and there were very few notes. Temp #1 there 3 days then permanent position. So here I come #3. After 7 wks, I couldn't take the insulting sexual remarks to another employee ("we need a body like yours on our baseball team"), other admins warned me about him and exec admin, come to his office 4/day just to check his inbox (he got no mail - he just wanted to say he had someone to do this) etc. I did report him to recruiter - her response, is this your 2 week notice? She did nothing to intervene or help. 3rd time finally said yes, told the "boss". The next day HE decided I was to leave after an hour. I reviewed notes I had developed, walked out. He walked behind me, calling my name, trying to get me to stop. I just kept on. Recruiter said that I was listed as "Do not use" for not giving 2 wk notice. This was a bit too much to take. This is why some recruiters are lousy.

A recruiter said: Let me tell you the life of a recruiter. ....

2nd Question. Just curious, why did you start another forum? You have some good points. Just hope they'll be seen. I admire most recruiters. I couldn't do that job.

A recruiter said:
however, recruiters do have to watch what we say to people. Someone like yourself seems like a very intelligent person who would listen to the critique, but I have had..

These are the kinds of comments that scare me. For the fact, they are just plain wrong and may end up hurting someone that "just doesn't know better."

Check out this forum:
The Only Way To Expose These Terrible Agencies is to SUE EM!!

Hey recruiters...stop your whining and find a different job! Yeah, that's right - you chose the profession - so go post this drivel somewhere else.

donn said: Get Paid for Reading Your eMail.

You are violating terms of Indeed. This is not a free commercial zone.

NOTE: Be cautious about signing up for these type "jobs". From reports I've seen, you don't get the business, you don't get paid, and what they DON'T tell you, is that you start getting streams of unwanted e-mail advertisements - that take forever to get rid of, even using unsubscribe, opt out, and blocking.

Bad Billy said: Hey recruiters...stop your whining and find a different job! Yeah, that's right - you chose the profession - so go post this drivel somewhere else.

Actually, I found his responses useful information.

Bad Billy said: Hey recruiters...stop your whining and find a different job! Yeah, that's right - you chose the profession - so go post this drivel somewhere else.

Ha, ha I love these forums.... No one was whining I only decided to speak up after reading every other post trashing agencies. Why would I post information about recruitment on a different forum? I love my job and would want to do nothing else in the world, but help qualified people find work. Ignorant people and people that come into the game with attitudes, need not apply......literally. BTW: which post would have been better suited. I would really like to know...

Hello There said:
These are the kinds of comments that scare me. For the fact, they are just plain wrong and may end up hurting someone that "just doesn't know better."
Check out this forum:
The Only Way To Expose These Terrible Agencies is to SUE EM!!

Exactly a lot of people dont know better. If I can help someone better their job search and up their chances of getting a job, why not? It's not meant to hurt or offend, but would you like it if you had broccoli in your teeth on a date and no one told you????

I'm not sure how earlier sent as a response to "A Recruiter, Fla." about "Comments that scare me." Sorry about that. I understand and support a recruiter has to be careful. But this guy is way over the edge.

The responses below cause me concern. There are a post by in Houston TX in the forum below:
The Only Way To Expose These Terrible Agencies is to SUE EM!!

RB's Posts does not look like credible info to be sharing with job seekers. He never said how he was discriminated. Here are some excerpts.

START OF QUOTES: 1) I suggest everyone to look for ways to sue these stupid staffing agencies.

2) They talk to you like you're a NOBODY....some even goes as far as saying, " I will not submit your resume due to a hold status on the position," statements like that, are grounds to file a complaint.

3) If you can get a recruiter to respond back to you in a harsh tone or a volatile manner (and they stupid enough to do it, too) you have yourself a case.
END OF QUOTES:

1) Maybe he has time/$$ to sue, but, I sure don't.

2) How absurd: I've had 3 jobs on "hold status" for valid reasons. One, never filled, one on hold til incumbent "shows improvement or is terminated" and one was backfilled. Recruiter has no control of "hold".

3) Oh, that's professional, just go in and pick a fight. Would he do this at a company he's trying to work with?

Hope this makes up for the oops.

Recruiters of any-sort, are nothing-more-than, grubby-opportunistic-parasites, who prey upon those of lesser-intelligence, or those who are ill-informed, in order to profit from the parasitic-relationship. One needs only, to read the comments-posted by those who are pro-recruiter ( obviously because they are one ), in order to determine that they are barely-better-suited for their job, than the worst of humanity, that they complain about, having to find a job. I hold several-advanced-certifications in Computer-Science, and I'm more- intelligent than all the recruiters in the WORLD. None of you are saviors of humanity, and your responsibility is not to help the down-trodden. Like ticks, you feed on blood, and that's what all of you are after. Your task is to find someone who's worth-lots, and hope that chaos-theory, smiles-brightly-upon-you, and you're able to recruit the individual, for less-than-scale. Then, your company, pockets the difference between what the CLIENT pays, and you pay the actual-worker. None of you are beneficial to anyone, and all of you have a job, only because you prey-upon the weak. So, please spare us your self-absorbed b.s. None of you, are my messiah, and any company that's worth working for, posts down at the bottom, NO 3RD-PARTY RECRUITERS! I'd say, there's a very-good-reason for that posting. In closing, for future-reference, before any of you pro-recruiters, decide to belittle, the people you're supposed to be helping (sucking-dry), you might want to learn proper-grammar, and spelling-techniques, that way, you don't look as ignorant, as you really are in life. None of you are superior to anyone, or else you would have better-things-to-do, than blogging to DICE, when you're at work, feeling sorry for yourself, instead of actually-doing your job. The next-time, that you're feeling superior to the "ignornant-people" that you're stuck, trying to serve, just remember, you're not a recruiter, because you graduated first-in-your class! :)

Attitude = I'm smarter than you, and your company, and I won't allow you to screw-me out of, that which I deserve. You just called your industry a game. I wonder why that is? If everything was straight-forward, and everyone fairly-received, that which they deserve, then why do you call your industry a game? Much like you, the answer is simple. You get pleasure, and recreation, not to mention a pay-check, out of cheating-people, you sick-little-monkey! As far as "ignorant-people" are concerned, I wonder. I make at least 3X that of your salary which is easily-found on Salary-Wizard. So, monkey, what's the salary-demarcation, between the ignorant, and the intelligent? Because, from where I'm sitting, you look pretty-ignornant to me, KO-KO-the-circus-monkey. Then you want to whine, about those in your environment? I'd say that you, and the "scum", that you "serve", have more in common, than you do differences. Hush KO-KO, grown-folks are talking here, go find yourself a pro-recruiter-blog, somewhere-else, and if you ever make a 100K, then you can come back here, and let us know ( that'll never happen! ) Until-then, be-quiet, and put down the kitten, if you need me, to communicate to you in sign, I'll be more than happy to assist.

perhaps you ca
What amazes me are the recruiters that CALL ME and then never return my call when I respond. Seems like a waste of time. Any thoughts?

A recruiter said: Let me tell you the life of a recruiter. We hear every single day that we dont call people back, we cant find them jobs, we don't pay well enough, and that we make so much money off of them. I understand that finding a job is a very stressful point in one's life. However we are not recruiting for one single company. We are constantly learning about new companies, positings, laws and interviewing 5-10 people per day. Not all of those 5-10 people are

Bob Shults is right. A little harsh i suppose,but right none the less. And the comment from the recruiter that mentioned how many times he has heard the"I learn fast" line... I am willing to bet that alot of them do,and know more than you ever will. Giving those people more of a chance wouldnt hurt. Staffing agencies ARE a waste of time for the most part and they are getting worse. They focus too much on work experience and not enough time on skills and potential. What about the people who are just starting out and have no work history? Alot of driven and intellegent people are overlooked. Its not us who are being unrealistic its the staffing agencies being too picky and not giving decent people a chance.

Before everyone throws stones at all staffing firms, please understand not all are the same.

As a retired Credit Manager, I used to run ads on Monster and careerbuilder. Let's say I needed a minimum of 5 years experience, with 25% of the job being travel.

I would receive 500 resumes within 2 days of posting the position. Of the 500, 450 of them had never picked up the phone to make a collection call - Everyone from truck drivers to housewives. Of the remaining 100, 75 would not agree to travel, even though it was clearly posted in the ad.

My HR department would spend 5 days sifting through the resumes and trying to schedule interviews.

Staffing firms can present 3 or 4 strong candidates that fit every need that the ad contained.

Why staffing firms get the bad rap, is that the "big boys" call in candidates to find out where they have interviewed, to get their sales people on the phone and try to get their foot in the door.

All staffing firms are not the same

Robert Glenn

Note said:
You are violating terms of Indeed. This is not a free commercial zone.
NOTE: Be cautious about signing up for these type "jobs". From reports I've seen, you don't get the business, you don't get paid, and what they DON'T tell you, is that you start getting streams of unwanted e-mail advertisements - that take forever to get rid of, even using unsubscribe, opt out, and blocking.

Thank you for your post!

Robert Glenn said: Before everyone throws stones at all staffing firms, please understand not all are the same.
As a retired Credit Manager, I used to run ads on Monster and careerbuilder. Let's say I needed a minimum of 5 years experience, with 25% of the job being travel.
I would receive 500 resumes within 2 days of posting the position. Of the 500, 450 of them had never picked up the phone to make a collection call - Everyone from truck drivers to housewives. Of the remaining 100, 75 would not agree to travel, even though it was clearly posted in the ad.
My HR department would spend 5 days sifting through the resumes and trying to schedule interviews.
Staffing firms can present 3 or 4 strong candidates that fit every need that the ad contained.
Why staffing firms get the bad rap, is that the "big boys" call in candidates to find out where they have interviewed, to get their sales people on the phone and try to get their foot in the door.
All staffing firms are not the same
Robert Glenn

There's nothing of human-comprehension, that I don't understand Robert, so don't pretend to explain anything to me. You're the one who doesn't understand that ALL RECRUITERS, and STAFFING-FIRMS are the same. Your comments that all staffing-firms aren't the same, is intentionally- misleading, and comparable to saying, that there are varying degrees of fecal-matter, and not all fecal-matter-stinks. You offer no support to your defense of recruiters, and/or staffing-firms, and your background is only relevant to a discussion about Credit-Managers. ALL STAFFING-FIRMS ARE THE SAME, there is no golden-child of STAFFING-FIRMS, and no business is totally-unique, if it were it would either be extremeley-wealthy, after having cornered-the-market, or it would be a huge-failure since it had no market-share. All staffing-firms follow the SAME BUSINESS-MODEL, and they are bound to that model, by their financial-partners. I question your motives, and illogical conclusions.

Wouldn't a company prefer to hire a real "go getter" than someone that rides along?

Why not quit using recruiters and talk to the companies yourselves! That's how I found my job.

Hit the pavement and go get some company names and addresses.

Go get the company information on the internet pages.

Go get some communications going and call these companies.

I've found that if companies truly have job openings they will at least tell you what is available and to whom you send your resume.

Wouldn't a company prefer to hire someone that can think on their feet and jobhunt on their own than to have some third party recruiter do it for them?

Sounds like a no brainer to me.

The opinion stated below regarding "the staffing firm persona" is a gross exaggeration and a far stretch from reality. See below!

"ALL STAFFING-FIRMS ARE THE SAME, there is no golden-child of STAFFING-FIRMS, and no business is totally-unique,...All staffing-firms follow the SAME BUSINESS-MODEL, and they are bound to that model..." This comment is stating the obvious regarding the "Staffing Industry"; however, it should not be used as the basis for an opposing point of view. I suggest one take a look at any "business model" or "industry" more closely because differences will exist (e.g. separting the good versus the bad). Afterall, do all professional baseball players demonstrate the same skill set? NO!! Are they following a "prototypical" model? PERHAPS, BUT AGAIN I SAY NO!!! Answer the question and you will see how the comparison...or lack therof is both irrelevant and out of line.

The gross generalization made by the reference "...understand that ALL RECRUITERS, and STAFFING-FIRMS are the same...," is both remedial and short-sided. Is this comment attempting to classify and group all recruiters in the same "subordinate" category...(suggestive statement as evidenced by the obvious reference)?

Yes, I agree that there are recruiters who fall short of success or basic ethical standares. Yet, that is not a reason to group the industry together as a whole. This industry is very beneficial and worthwhile to both the candidate and client (I will respond to the "No Brainer Job Seeker" in a few). The successfull (firms and individuals alike) are founded on a few intangible traits/principles: integrity, drive, motivation and personality. You can teach anyone to recruit,but you can not teach drive-integrity-motivation-personality.
Lastly, the statement, "....I question your motives, and illogical conclusions." is more applicable to the opinions noted above.
SUCCESS FACTOR: Create value, build rapport, and be honest!!!!

Sorry you are so bitter, that you can see the forest past the trees.
This is a simple numbers game for internal HR department recruiters. They are deluged by thousands of resumes on a monthly basis.
ABC Widget company in Durant, Ok has to pay a staff of several clerks to enter all resumes into their database (Required by law). Then recruiters are paid to "read" all the resumes that are entered, looking for specific "key words" that match the specific needs for an openning they are trying to fill.
All said, ABC Company pays the salary of 5+ employess (or more) to filter all the non-qualified or poor quality resumes that simply does not highlight or sell their skills.
Before you throw an entire industry under the bus, you need to ask yourself why is corporate America using staffing firms??? Simple answer is based on the sheer expense and time needed for internal HR recruiters to work through this process can run into the $250k range (5 salaries X $30k is $150k, plus workmans comp and taxes, and the cost of posting open positions on the job boards (You think it's free???)....
Staffing firms charge a % of the annual salary of let's say 20% -
So the same 5 open positions paying the same $30k salary will cost ABC company $30k.....
Bottom line, if you were the owner of ABC Company in Durant, would you pay $30k, or $250k????
I have had many conversations with CEO's and CFO's - it is a simple case of fiscal responsibility to their stockholders - Spend $250k to fill 5 positions per year, or $30k in staffing firm fees.

Bottom line, the short answer here is a huge YES....
Companies would love to find that employee that can hit the ground running, willing to work their tails off for a future.
The problem is the compnay has to pay a support staff to sift through a huge volume of resumes to find yours.
Long process, expense to keep the support staff in place and very long process to attempt to contact you, schedule interviews, complete background checks...
A staffing firm would present you as a candidate, highlighting the key works on your resume that specificly matches the exact skills they are looking for, as well as a summary of why they should consider interviewing you. The background, referneces, criminal and drug screens already completed.
All communication is through the recruiter, so there is no telephone tag.
Also, the piece of the puzzle that you may not know is 25% of the resumes on the job boards are from candidates that are not really wanting to leave their existing position. They are simply "fishing" or "testing the market" to see how their current salary matches up to what similer jobs are paying.
Internal recruiters will interview a candidate, push them forward to the hiring manager - An offer is made, and the candidate turns it down, because they don't want to leave the 5+ yeasr of senioity or 3+ weeks of vacation.
Very frustrating and expensive to internal HR Departments.

You make a great point if we are only discussing entry level candidates. I agree that a company is not being "fiscally responsible" for paying a fee for this type of candidate. It is those hard to fill positions or rare skill sets a company can justify the cost. I appreciate the insight.

Princess Delilah said: Bob Shults is right. A little harsh i suppose,but right none the less. And the comment from the recruiter that mentioned how many times he has heard the"I learn fast" line... I am willing to bet that alot of them do,and know more than you ever will. Giving those people more of a chance wouldnt hurt. Staffing agencies ARE a waste of time for the most part and they are getting worse. They focus too much on work experience and not enough time on skills and potential. What about the people who are just starting out and have no work history? Alot of driven and intellegent people are overlooked. Its not us who are being unrealistic its the staffing agencies being too picky and not giving decent people a chance.

I don't think its that we are being picky. I think the message I was trying to relay is that, yes there are great individuals, with wonderful attitudes who are willing to learn, however our clients are not paying for us to seek them out. If I am working with a client who beleives that people can learn and is okay with that, I will try and send the person with the great attitude that needs to be given a foot in the door. What some people don't understand is that when you walk into MOST recruitment firms you are not charged the client is, so it is difficult for us to call all the shots...... If you do not want to deal with agencies or feel that they are "worthless" as many people on this post has stated, then please by all means, don't register and apply with them. Those that understand the value, and are not critical of things that are outside of our control, please do apply.

RE: Robert Glenn: There's that "recruiter-logic", once-more, if you can't explain a subject, then you must attempt to exercise-control, by attempting to assign a "personality-defect", i.e. short-sighted, and bitter. I've got a global-view of the entire-planet, and once-again, you've proven my point, that RECRUITERS can't read, nor comprehend. No one asked if staffing-firms were benefical to themselves, or to their clients. It was stated, that STAFFING-FIRMS, and RECRUITERS are PARASITES, to THOSE THAT THEY CLAIM TO HELP. Your details of the STAFFING-GAME, doesn't surprise me supposed "Credit-Manager", because I already identified you as a recruiter in HOUSTON,TX. What does surprise me, is that not-once, but three-times, you've failed to even address the topic, that RECRUITERS, and STAFFING-FIRMS are detrimental to those they "serve" PERIOD. I'm too-intelligent to use a STAFFING-FIRM, I NEVER HAVE, and I NEVER WILL! Slavery based-upon ethnic-groups, was replaced by bondage based upon the LACK OF EDUCATION, and this is something that you can't address. The only-thing, short-sighted-here, is your narrow-focus of GREED. Bitter? I have a real job, that REQUIRES-INTELLIGENCE, and DOES NOT CHEAT PEOPLE! I sleep very-well at night, how about you? I'll compare IQ-scores with all of you, in a combined-effort, and I'll still win! :) Your job, nor your industry is complex, and your efforts to make them so are futile at best. No one CARES about the trials, and tribulations, of an internal-HR-department. We were discussing, how HARMFUL, STAFFING-FIRMS are to people, who actually use them, but thanks for proving my point, that RECRUITERS are certainly less than smart, and I'm sure that you exercise the SAME attention-to-detail, when applicants (marks), come into to your staffing-firm. That's just one of the things that make all of you, SO SPECIAL! STAFFING-FIRMS are equivalent to FAST-FOOD, CHEAP, FAST, and POOR-QUALITY! BOTTOM LINE: GO ELSEWHERE, or DON'T COMPLAIN!

RE: JWS_TJG Inc comments "You can teach anyone to recruit,but you can not teach drive-integrity-motivation-personality." WOW! Did you steal this directly-from your corporate-video, all-by-yourself? Impressive. Not everyone is cut-out to make a Krabby-Patty, only those who have drive, integrity, motivation, and personality are worthy of that honor. I'M READY! I'M READY! You state "Yes, I agree that there are recruiters who fall short of success or basic ethical standares." See, here's where you should've stopped, because replace are recruiters, with ALL RECRUITERS, and you would've been right. In this instance, MORE is unfortunately LESS. Also, you state "The opinion stated below regarding "the staffing firm persona" is a gross exaggeration and a far stretch from reality." I suppose that TRUTH is an exaggeration, and a far-stretch from reality, when that REALITY is INDEED FALSEHOOD. Adolf Hitler said "the bigger the lie, the more people will believe it", so in this sense, I guess TRUTH to your REALITY, is similar in relationship to MATTER, and ANTI-MATTER. Next you say "This comment is stating the obvious regarding the "Staffing Industry." Duh! Robert Glenn stated that HE WAS UNIQUE, WITHIN YOUR INDUSTRY, and not I, because I know that ALL OF YOU ARE EQUALLY-WORTHLESS. I'm sure that when the lender, asks to see your business-model, and you respond with " well...were good, and the other STAFFING-FIRMS are bad", that they give you double-the-moneye, for that little-jewel of a response. Baseball-players? I'm not aware of any RELIABLE-MEASURE of a person's ability, except for the CLAREVOYANCE that RECRUITERS CLAIM as their own. People are UNIQUE-INDIVIDUALS, STAFFING-FIRMS are inannimate-CARBON-COPIES-OF-THE-SAME-BUSINESS-MODEL!! I answered your question, now what? I guess that it sounded better in your head, then it did once posted, huh? Irrelevant? Out-of-line? You don't control my thought-process, and you as well as your grammar-skills are remedial. :)

a recruiter said:
I don't think its that we are being picky. I think the message I was trying to relay is that, yes there are great individuals, with wonderful attitudes who are willing to learn, however our clients are not paying for us to seek them out. If I am working with a client who beleives that people can learn and is okay with that, I will try and send the person with the great attitude that needs to be given a foot in the door. What some people don't understand is that when you walk into MOST recruitment firms you are not charged the client is, so it is difficult for us to call all the shots...... If you do not want to deal with agencies or feel that they are "worthless" as many people on this post has stated, then please by all means, don't register and apply with them. Those that understand the value, and are not critical of things that are outside of our control, please do apply.

You, and other recruiters remind me of , that brain-damaged-goose-off-of "Charlotte's Web" with all of the DOUBLE-TALK that goes on, using the SAME-LINES! Don't they teach you all anything else to say? "Short-sighted, bitter, don't understand, if you don't want to deal with agencies, critical, negative, bad-attitude, only the best of the best need apply." WHAT-EVER-EVER-EVER! All-RECRUITERS ARE NO-DIFFERENT than those who play 3-Card-Monty, out in the street. Hey goose, goose, the CLIENT IS "CHARGED", by taking the "RECRUITMENT FEE" out of the DIFFERENCE-BETWEEN, what the position pays in a direct-hire-situation, and what the STAFFING-FIRM, actually-pays the person-selected for the position. The STAFFING-FIRM once-again scores, if the CLIENT wants to HIRE the recruited, by charging a FINDER'S FEE, this fact alone, can cost you a job, because it's cheaper for the CLIENT to DIRECT-HIRE for the position. Also, in the work-environment, those who work for STAFFING-FIRMS, are considered to be 3rd-class citizens at best. Triage for a gap, until it can be filled.

a recruiter said:
I don't think its that we are being picky. I think the message I was trying to relay is that, yes there are great individuals, with wonderful attitudes who are willing to learn, however our clients are not paying for us to seek them out. If I am working with a client who beleives that people can learn and is okay with that, I will try and send the person with the great attitude that needs to be given a foot in the door. What some people don't understand is that when you walk into MOST recruitment firms you are not charged the client is, so it is difficult for us to call all the shots...... If you do not want to deal with agencies or feel that they are "worthless" as many people on this post has stated, then please by all means, don't register and apply with them. Those that understand the value, and are not critical of things that are outside of our control, please do apply.

You're the RECRUITER, and the STAFFING-FIRM, if you're "not in control" of the RECRUITMENT, and STAFFING-PROCESS, then what do you control, and more importantly why should one seek your services, if you have none to provide? You claim to be responsible for, what you would call SUCCESS, but you REFUSE to accept ANY-RESPONSIBILITY, for any-type of FAILURE. Why is the scope of your influence so narrow? Phsyics tells us that for every action, there's an equal, and opposite-reaction, but apparently the laws-of-the-universe, apply to everyone except RECRUITERS, and STAFFING-AGENCIES, not a surprising-world-view, when one considers the fact that both believe that their above civilized-standards, and they attempt to utilize Psych-101-techniques in order to attempt to shame candidates into conformity, citing their own alleged "superiority" as a legitimate-source of power. I think that all of you should go back, and take all the psych courses, maybe then you'd learn that you can't predict, nor influence human-behavior 100%. :)

I know that all of you will be sad to learn, that this will be my last post, because I've better things to do, then constantly-humiliate every sad-pro-recruiter, who chooses to lose an argument with me. :) Recruiters can't control anyone who HAS KNOWLEDGE, and all of you have over-stepped your bounds, by even attempting to communicate with me. REALITY IS WHATEVER TWO PEOPLE AGREE THAT REALITY IS. NONE OF YOU, ARE QUALIFIED TO AFFIX ANY COMMENTS ABOUT BEHAVIOR, TO ANYONE ELSE. To be CRITICAL, is to be INTELLIGENT! Why do you think that their called CRITICAL-THINKING SKILLS? Oops! I asked you to think, sorry. RECRUITERS, and STAFFING-AGENCIES make a CONSCIENTIOUS-EFFORT to make a profit by CHEATING-PEOPLE, and then they CLAIM innocence, due to variables that are out of their control. WHATEVER! If those variables weren't in YOUR FAVOR, then ALL OF YOU WOULD BE OUT OF A POSITION, AND/OR COMPANY! The best WARNING that I can give, is to say that, other fields have no need of constant-attempts-at-defense, because they're HONEST! Clearly, if the goods RECRUITERS are attempting to sell, are SO GREAT, why then are their services required? If STAFFING-FIRMS were truly-successful, then their service would sell itself. PCS phones work, and are very popular, recruiters aren't required. STAFFING-FIRMS, and RECRUITERS don't perform as advertised, and they are loathed the world over, so would-be-RECRUITERS go into debt, or their parents' pay for, an education that RECRUITERS use to feel superior-to those who don't have a college-education. What a thrill! I could defend against multiple-postings indefinitely, but I've legitimate work to do ( COMPUTER SCIENCE ), have fun patting yourselves on the back for misleading people who are ill-prepared for the shadowy-world of RECRUITER word-games for the mentally-challenged. I now return you all, to your perpetual-game of " ARE STAFFING-FIRMS, and RECRUITERS the EQUIVALENT of RAW-SEWAGE, or AREN'T THEY?" AVOID AGENCIES and RECRUITERS!!!!!!!!!

Good God Bob, I think you're gonna blow a valve

Job huntin' fool said: Good God Bob, I think you're gonna blow a valve

Nope, just having fun. Nothing has been presented here, that would even come close to making me "blow a valve." Thanks for your concern nonetheless, laid-back dude. Unfortunately, apathetic-people-like-you, are the reason that such organizations are allowed to exist, in the first-place, among other problems with society, in general. You've already labled yourself a fool, so I don't think that I need to convince you, of your short-comings as a supposedly sentient-being. :) You wouldn't want to see me upset, and I've posted every COMMENT with a SMILE on my face. :) GOOD BYE ALL! I feel DIRTY, just from having been exposed to so many TICKS, and I think it best I leave, before I contract LYME DISEASE from all of you PRO-TAPEWORM-types. You all may continue to TRY, and debate the existence of this DISEASE, that effects thousands every day, all the while the cancer (Staffing-Firms), continues to eat away at those ignorant-enough to be afflicted. BEST WISHES!

Bob Schults said: Recruiters of any-sort, are nothing-more-than, grubby-opportunistic-parasites,
who prey upon those of lesser-intelligence, or those who are ill-informed,
in order to profit from the parasitic-relationship. One needs only, to read
the comments-posted by those who are pro-recruiter ( obviously because they
are one ), in order to determine that they are barely-better-suited for their
job, than the worst of humanity, that they complain about, having to find
a job. I hold several-advanced-certifications in Computer-Science, and I'm
more- intelligent than all the recruiters in the WORLD. None of you are saviors
of humanity, and your responsibility is not to help the down-trodden. Like
ticks, you feed on blood, and that's what all of you are after. Your task
is to find someone who's worth-lots, and hope that chaos-theory, smiles-brightly-upon-you,
and you're able to recruit the individual, for less-than-scale. Then, your
company, pockets the difference between what the CLIENT pays, and you pay
the actual-worker. None of you are beneficial to anyone, and all of you have
a job, only because you prey-upon the weak. So, please spare us your self-absorbed
b.s. None of you, are my messiah, and any company that's worth working for,
posts down at the bottom, NO 3RD-PARTY RECRUITERS! I'd say, there's a very-good-reason
for that posting. In closing, for future-reference, before any of you pro-recruiters,
decide to belittle, the people you're supposed to be helping (sucking-dry),
you might want to learn proper-grammar, and spelling-techniques, that way,
you don't look as ignorant, as you really are in life.

Bob,

I like the way you talk.
Email me for a private conversation...
alichrstphr@aol.com

Princess Delilah said: Bob Shults is right. A little harsh i suppose,but right none the less. And the comment from the recruiter that mentioned how many times he has heard the"I learn fast" line... I am willing to bet that alot of them do,and know more than you ever will. Giving those people more of a chance wouldnt hurt. Staffing agencies ARE a waste of time for the most part and they are getting worse. They focus too much on work experience and not enough time on skills and potential. What about the people who are just starting out and have no work history? Alot of driven and intellegent people are overlooked. Its not us who are being unrealistic its the staffing agencies being too picky and not giving decent people a chance.

Harsh? What would be your reaction, if you walked into a room, and someone was STEALING-MONEY, from your purse? Would your reaction be harsh, or mild? Hopefully it would be harsh, but not if you've been beaten into submission, and brain-washed, that black is white, and white is black, by the tired-rhetoric that all RECRUITERS, and STAFFING-FIRMS exclusively-rely-upon. RECRUITERS, and STAFFING-FIRMS STEAL-MONEY, out of your purse, with you in the room, and a poop-eating-grin, on their face. Why do you label a stranger stealing-money as criminal, and a RECRUITER, and/or STAFFING-FIRM's exact same action as professional? Like Pavlov's dog's you've been conditioned to salivate whenever you hear ANY BELL. Think for yourself! Don't take my word on any of this, investigate for yourself, and DRAW YOUR OWN CONCLUSIONS! Just remember, I've nothing to gain, nor lose by your choice. Only you, and the STAFFING-FIRM stand to benefit, or lose by your choices. Have confidence in your own abilities to get a job, based upon your OWN VALUE! RECRUITERS here have already stated, that they HAVE NO CONTROL, over the HIRING-DECISION of CLIENTS. Why then are they necessary? They're NOT!! POCKET exactly what you're WORTH, don't feed the PARASITES!

RE: JWS_TJG Inc comment

One final-thought on your comments. Individual-ability doesn't matter, when you're following a FLAWED-industry-model. Using your sad-baseball-player-analogy, you should know, that THE BEST-PLAYER in the WORLD, DOESN'T-MEAN-SQUAT, if their TEAM is sub-standard. I don't know of any PLAYER, no matter how talented as an individual, that can overcome the COLLECTIVE-WEAKNESS, the GROUPTHINK, and mob-mentality of a FLAWED-GROUP, or if it helps you, a team. You attempt to mix, and match the benefits, and short-comings, of individuals, and groups, to suit your specific argument at the time. You can't embody a group with individual-traits, and vice-versa. Not even the Federal-Govt can overcome GROUPTHINK, so I'm sure that it would pay-handsomely to know how your small-organization, overcame a problem that's inherent to all humans. I would too. It doesn't matter if Superman, or Wonder-Woman is a memeber of your staff, he's/she's still hampered by the other weakest-links. If individual-performance, can overcome the defects of a collective-whole, then how come organizational-models contradict your claims? Why doesn't the military just have a few Rambos, instead of 100,000's of troops? Because the collective is ONLY AS GOOD AS THOSE WHO FILL ITS RANKS. ALL CONTRIBUTE TO THE SUCCESS, or in your case, FAILURE of the GROUP. Also, good-luck in deciding whether, or not you agree with me, because from your previous-posts, it seems your straddling the bench. Hope your baseball-terms helped you out this time. :) Bye!

Bob Schults said: I know that all of you will be sad to learn, that this will be my last post, because I've better things to do, then constantly-humiliate every sad-pro-recruiter, who chooses to lose an argument with me. ..

"Nope, just having fun. "

PLEEZE take your narrow minded ranting and raving elsewhere. Just having fun? Boy is that not self-absorption on your part. Maybe someone needs some direction and gets help here - not to be blasted.

These forums are to help each other, not hear someone's assanine remarks. SOME recruiters are very worthwhile and do help. There may be very few, but, there are some. I am not a recruiter, but, have worked with some to find a job. 75% are not worth talking too.

Also, FYI - some jobs are never posted, they are only available through recruiters. It IS a matter of numbers. You have to pursue to be in that first 5 or 10 to be considered for the 3-4 resumes to be sent. If you think you can cold call companies and hand in your resume, you are really out of sync with the real world.

Bob Schults said: You're the RECRUITER, and the STAFFING-FIRM, if you're "not in control" of the RECRUITMENT, and STAFFING-PROCESS, then what do you control, and more importantly why should one seek your services, if you have none to provide? You claim to be responsible for, what you would call SUCCESS, but you REFUSE to accept ANY-RESPONSIBILITY, for any-type of FAILURE. Why is the scope of your influence so narrow? Phsyics tells us that for every action, there's an equal, and opposite-reaction, but apparently the laws-of-the-universe, apply to everyone except RECRUITERS, and STAFFING-AGENCIES, not a surprising-world-view, when one considers the fact that both believe that their above civilized-standards, and they attempt to utilize Psych-101-techniques in order to attempt to shame candidates into conformity, citing their own alleged "superiority" as a legitimate-source of power. I think that all of you should go back, and take all the psych courses, maybe then you'd learn that you can't predict, nor influence human-behavior 100%. :)

Once you grow a brain and can intelligently formulate sentences then please by all menas, go back to recruiter bashing....worthless

Bob Schults said: Harsh? What would be your reaction, if you walked into a room, and someone was STEALING-MONEY, from your purse? Would your reaction be harsh, or mild? Hopefully it would be harsh, but not if you've been beaten into submission, and brain-washed, that black is white, and white is black, by the tired-rhetoric that all RECRUITERS, and STAFFING-FIRMS exclusively-rely-upon. RECRUITERS, and STAFFING-FIRMS STEAL-MONEY, out of your purse, with you in the room, and a poop-eating-grin, on their face. Why do you label a stranger stealing-money as criminal, and a RECRUITER, and/or STAFFING-FIRM's exact same action as professional? Like Pavlov's dog's you've been conditioned to salivate whenever you hear ANY BELL. Think for yourself! Don't take my word on any of this, investigate for yourself, and DRAW YOUR OWN CONCLUSIONS! Just remember, I've nothing to gain, nor lose by your choice. Only you, and the STAFFING-FIRM stand to benefit, or lose by your choices. Have confidence in your own abilities to get a job, based upon your OWN VALUE! RECRUITERS here have already stated, that they HAVE NO CONTROL, over the HIRING-DECISION of CLIENTS. Why then are they necessary? They're NOT!! POCKET exactly what you're WORTH, don't feed the PARASITES!

If you think of us as parasites, then please do look elsewhere. No agency on earth has 100% control over what their client does. They are our "clients", ultimately they choose what they buy.....bad attitudes need not apply!:)

thought you claimed you would no longer post in this forum, but yet you continue......So much for your credibility......

Your self-indulgent ramblings and the smarter than everyone else on the planet attitude reminds me of the Unabomber and his manifesto.

If Staffing firms were such a blight on society, then why do they continue to succeed in helping a portion of our population find employment opportunities to help change their lives??? I guess your ranting simply have not fallen into the ears of anyone who really gives a crap about your views.

Sorry but will simply have to resign yourself that society if light years behind your vision of the world......Thank you for granting us the insight into your highly advanced mental capacity that can see into an industry and call the entire process parasites.

You Sir, are a nothing more than a racist - Like those who discriminate against an entire race or religion based on you slanted perceptions of who your utopia would be run. You however decided to hate an entire industry based on your prejudices. Racism or hatred of any kind is a simple sign of ignorance and/or intolerance - Either of which is the true blight on our world.

Grow up and move on - Until you learn that the world can not run based on your perceptions, staffing firms are here and will continue to provide a service to America.

Have a great day.

Right back at you.....

GO ELSEWHERE, or DON'T COMPLAIN!

I think it comes back to the thread's topic.
What are realistic expectations of the job market? How could expectations be managed better?
What does the job seeker expect and how can the recruiter do a better job of setting expectations?
Let's keep the discussions civil guys.
Thanks!

He is a legend in his own mind.....Ranting and raving his perception of the world

Blah, Blah blah.....

Hey Bob, GET A LIFE, or a dog and name it life - MOVE ON

Just a simple FYI...Nobody cares about your right winged, holier than though mentality - I bet you were the kind of kid who pushed the AV cart around in hight scholl, and got your butt kicked on a daily basis for your lunch money.

Bob Schults in Durant, Oklahoma said: You, and other recruiters remind me of , that brain-damaged-goose-off-of "Charlotte's Web" with all of the DOUBLE-TALK that goes on, using the SAME-LINES! Don't they teach you all anything else to say? "Short-sighted, bitter, don't understand, if you don't want to deal with agencies, critical, negative, bad-attitude, only the best of the best need apply." WHAT-EVER-EVER-EVER! All-RECRUITERS ARE NO-DIFFERENT than those who play 3-Card-Monty, out in the street. Hey goose, goose, the CLIENT IS "CHARGED", by taking the "RECRUITMENT FEE" out of the DIFFERENCE-BETWEEN, what the position pays in a direct-hire-situation, and what the STAFFING-FIRM, actually-pays the person-selected for the position. The STAFFING-FIRM once-again scores, if the CLIENT wants to HIRE the recruited, by charging a FINDER'S FEE, this fact alone, can cost you a job, because it's cheaper for the CLIENT to DIRECT-HIRE for the position. Also, in the work-environment, those who work for STAFFING-FIRMS, are considered to be 3rd-class citizens at best. Triage for a gap, until it can be filled.

aparently you are one of those rare people that know it all. YOU ARE THE REASON why clients come to us directly....they do not want to deal with people of your nature. And in previous posts you assumed that you know how much we all make, as well as our education levels, you know nothing of the sort, and only a truly ignorant person would make such a comment. Thank god you don't utilize agencies if you did, and you came into my office I would run the other way from your ridiculous attitude.

I've used Manpower before. All temping has its quirks. In my case while Manpower will not return my calls, they have been very helpful in the past & not like many other agencies I've come across. Its a double-edge sword, but I also know that there has been turnover in over 1 1/2 years. The good recruiter I worked with is no longer there. I've had assignments that were underpaid. Handling it professionally led to a better assignment.

Anyone looking to get paid enough to cover benefits beyond Manpower's offered coverage is not seeing the entire picture. Many people need to realize that generally people end up with temp jobs & not perm placement. Clients will not pay to cover the extra cash or benefits. All agencies have overhead expenses. When making an argument, you need to consider that fact. You don't have to like it, just be aware of it.

Temps are branded before they start. Some had the same outfits only because they could not afford to get new stuff. (Hence the need to work.) Some were slightly antisocial but had their guard up because of horrible temps setting a bad example by reinforcing a stereotype that is inappropriate for today's job market. The recruiters *have* to screen.

I've made over 15 an hour perm and temp. Some agencies wanted me to work a 3rd for 8 an hour. Once I say no, I'm blacklisted. Others farm info to pad their DB so they can *lie to clients and media* that they have the richest resources. They never call back and post fake jobs. If you're upset over those, then that is understandable. But it isn't too much to ask to direct it at the offending agencies and not all. Its okay if you disagree, to each their own.

Although being upfront about any issues with applicants helps.
No one likes to be left in the dark.

Merley perspective.

Correction: Merely perspective.

Still working on that rare and occasional human error part. ;)

I've done recruiting and placement before.
To do such right is simple and good business:
1. Be honest with candidates
2. Be honest with clients
3. Recognize that just as some people are not a "fit" for jobs, some companies are not a "fit" for people.
4. Guarantee no more than your best effort. You can't guarantee a job anymore than you can gurantee a client you have the perfect candidate. If you are truly trying to help create matches between appropriate candidates and clients, you are doing the right thing for both sides.
5. Follow up and return calls. That so many in the staffing business don't do so is a travesty. There IS time - people CHOOSE not to do so.

My 2.73 cents, anyway.

Displaced Legal Professional in Denver, Colorado said: How 'bout acting professionally and considerately, Dolphin? How about keeping one's word? How about not shoving candidates into jobs you know they can't do just to collect a commission?

Please add those items to your list.

Good point. Those are important issues as well.
I've worked in environments where we did what was right and that was first and foremost. And you can certainly earn a living being honest, professional and up front with employers AND candidates. It also feels better to do so.

But it's a seemingly shrinking list out there of folks who do.

A recuiter in Milton, New York said: This is a very accurate account of the life of a trecruiter. Not only, is that necessary but we have the people who doesn't realize that the interview with the Manpower recruiter is a real interview! Your first impression is the most important. For scheduled interviews, applicants come in looking unkempt, unprofessional, sometimes inappropriate and unprepared. If this is the impression you are giving a Manpower recruiter, what will you look like at an interview with the client? We work very hard to bring in jobs for our employees and we can't risk our reputation with the client by submitting people who are not qualified, rude or unprofessional.

I had a similar experience. The candidate was 20 minutes late for his scheduled interview...he had requested this appointment a week earlier. He apologized for looking the way he did. He was with a client he said - which is ok for him being late since he was making money at the time. I would have appreciated that he was another 20 minutes late (to take a shower) since he ran a pig farm. And then he called me once a week to ask if I had found him anything.

I did look for positions for him. I did not place him since he was an organic farmer in sales. We are quite rural and he would have to drive outside of his requested territory. I had contacted other offices and did find some opportunities and gave him the option of interviewing.

Displaced Legal Professional in Denver, Colorado said: Continued from previous post....

This headhunter was a well-known legal recruiter and had operated her agency for nine years at that time. I do not believe headhunters want names of companies to avoid duplication or not "look bad"; I think they're pumping candidates for leads to prospect for business. Taking advantage of candidates that way is reprehensible; it's also none of their damn business where candidates apply.

And headhunters wonder why they turn off candidates?

Actually it is a recruiter's job to get any information that they can use. A recruiter does ask for this information to avoid duplication, to not "look bad" (a company will remember that a recruiter tried to send them the same person...negative feelings) and also to get new leads any way they can. This is called networking. A GOOD recruiter will already have the current information for any new leads.