Clinic Administrator Position - DON'T WASTE YOUR TIME

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Bren in Saint Petersburg, Florida

98 months ago

For anyone that lives remotely near a massage envy - beware! If you are interested in a "clinic administrator" position, look the other way. Be good to yourself, and look elsewhere! I had a horrible expereince applying for a CA position. The people at massage envy were very unprofessional and treat their massage therapists poorly. The CA position in itself is a joke. When interviewed, they explain about great benefits, paid training in Phoenix, and how it's a great company to work for. Well, if you are into belittling the work of massage therapist - go for it. This company strives to make massage therapists work like dogs, for very little pay, and cover it up with fancy centers and flashy marketing. Please, take my advice - if you are a massage therapist, do yourself a favor - find work in a place where you'll be appreiciated and where you can do the work you like - not do the work you are told to do.

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Therapist- Clinic Owner in Wilmette, Illinois

97 months ago

Jareef in Dallas, Texas said: I completely disagree with you. I happen to be a clinic administrator with Massage Envy and I don't belittle my therapists or my sales staff. Most of my full time therapists take home over $3000 a month. All they "are forced" to do is massage, change table linens and refill cream/gel/lotion tubes that they use. It would appear to me that they are very spoiled. They get a paid vacation after one year, medical benefits, a professional and safe environment in which to work. I have monthly meetings where I feed my entire staff while I continue their training and development. If that means I make them "work like dogs" sign my up Bow Wow.

Jareef,

Your post is completely ridiculous!!! You are clearly out of touch and you don't know what you're talking about. How many people take home $3,000 a month at your ME? NO WAY!!! You can't come in here and feed us a bunch of crap, many of us have been in this industry to long to listen misleading B.S. Just admit it, you run a sweat shop, a 2 bit Wal-Mart, a get-rich-quick-scheme just waiting to fail! Hopefully you don't ruin to many careers on the way down.

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Bren in Saint Petersburg, Florida

97 months ago

Therapist- Clinic Owner in Wilmette, Illinois said: Jareef,

Your post is completely ridiculous!!! You are clearly out of touch and you don't know what you're talking about. How many people take home $3,000 a month at your ME? NO WAY!!! You can't come in here and feed us a bunch of crap, many of us have been in this industry to long to listen misleading B.S. Just admit it, you run a sweat shop, a 2 bit Wal-Mart, a get-rich-quick-scheme just waiting to fail! Hopefully you don't ruin to many careers on the way down.

So, regardless.. I rest my case about the TYPE of people who are employed by massage envy. All in all, a poor attitude. As a professional massage therapist, I understand that it's important to make a living, but not doing it in the cheapest way possible. If you are a clinic administator or an mt with massage envy - to me it's the same - the cheap way to work as an mt. Perhaps we should review the "respect for yourself and for the profession" aspect of the mt training.....

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Jareef in Dallas, Texas

97 months ago

I'd be happy to show you a commission report, if it didn't violate my employee's privacy. BTW ME will have over 650 clinics open in the next 18 months. How's that for a fly-by-night-scam. You're a hater.

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Therapist - Clinic Owner in Wilmette, Illinois

97 months ago

No Name in Concord, North Carolina said: I think most of you people are crazy, I mean bitter, I mean you have issues, issues the a mear blog will not address or cure! I am a massage therapist and I work at massage envy. The truth is my average tip is 10.00 and on occasion a little less and on occasion a lot more. The environment is very professional and you can recieve several types of massages there, not just sweedish. Based on the customer base I've seen Massage Envy isn't going anywhere anytime soon. The majority love the experience, continue to buy memberships and continue to come back. Maybe you should just try therapy as opposed to massage therapy and figure out what is really going on.

Dear No Name,

There's only one "e" in Swedish, and think again!

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Ex Customer in Sacramento, California

96 months ago

Massage Envy is amazingly cynical and exploitative, once you get past the soft focus exterior. Their marketing robots think their customers are amazingly stupid, i.e. their new "magazine" is full of childish, medically dangerous junk science and bigotry. I had to fight like hell, including several long distance phone calls, to even get their HQ phone number (their CEO is a coward, and they have no national customer service contacts). Avoid them at all costs, unless you, say, believe in Bigfoot and think that people can cure cancer by eating roughage.

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elsewhere in Burbank, California

96 months ago

Mary- Thank you for sharing your positive experiences. Glad you are happy. You are obviously where you belong.

Now since you've shared your experiences let me share mine. I don't work for ME and never have. I have never worked for anybody but myself. I have one of the most successful private practices in Hollywood. I have been doing massage for 25 years, done over 30,000 sessions and my clients are the people you see in the movies and read about in magazines. I get paid way too much for what I do but what can I say? I guess I'm pretty good at this. I don't say this to try to impress anyone, it is just a statement of fact like your experiences were about you. Obviously I have chosen the right profession for me. I realize my situation is unique but it shouldn't be.

But as someone who has done this for years I realize it is incumbent upon me to pass on certain things I have learned so that others may experience similar success and happiness in their work. Massage is a unique profession, it always has been. My concerns about ME don't affect me personally. My clients would never go to one. But the virtual hegemony they seek in a profession which until now has existed without the emphasis on greed and avarice is disturbing to me and to others obviously as witnessed by the many reports on this forum from both former employess and clients.

I care about this work. It is my life not my hobby. I care about the reputation of the profession and I care about those who seek it as a way of being. Anything that distracts from the essential power of the work gives me cause, both as a teacher and an advocate for massage therapists and the world of massage in general, to voice myself.

Again, ME will never touch someone like me. Wrong league. But anything that potentially damages the reputation of the profession I have spent half my life in will capture my interest enough to speak out about it.

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mary in Charlotte, North Carolina

95 months ago

Seems most of the complaints are coming from California...You'll do great, good luck to you.

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elsewhere in Burbank, California

95 months ago

mary in Charlotte, North Carolina said: Seems most of the complaints are coming from California...You'll do great, good luck to you.

Wow, talk about misleading. What a total fabrication. That would be like me saying the only ones saying anything good about ME are coming from Charlotte, North Carolina. How do you know what conditions are like at ME's in New Jersey? You yourself have said they are all different. Provide some proof to back up your claim or invite him to come to Charlotte where all is well.

There are a myriad of complaints about ME here. They are coming from all over the map. I'm sure Mika will be smart enough to figure that out. That said I wish Mika well.

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MIka marjanidze in Madison, New Jersey

95 months ago

Thanks Mary

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fed up in Wilmette, Illinois

95 months ago

MIka marjanidze in Madison, New Jersey said: Hi, I'm from NJ, came to USA 8 yars ago, finishing MT program soon and going to work in ME. I see no one is posting from NJ, hope things in ME are different in here...

MIka, Please do yourself a favor and find a real place to work. Look for people who will treat you well, tell you the truth & pay you what you're worth. Ask around town or at the local schools and see where that place is, there is bound to be some place in your area that has a quality reputation. Any ME is likely to disappoint you.

Respect yourself and respect your profession, just say NO to ME!

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Edward Wertz in Lubbock, Texas

95 months ago

And you have to respect other people's right to decide what is right and fair for them.

What did you find wrong with your experience working there?

Were you not aware of the conditions before signing up with the establishment?

What were your expectations and how where they not met?

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No Name in Charlotte, North Carolina

95 months ago

This is the kind of crazy immature arrogance I can't take. Mike, if your intentions are to work for ME go for it. You may or may not have a good experience. It really depends on the individual as well as "YOUR" particular ME. Don't let these emotional people scare you.

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elsewhere in Burbank, California

95 months ago

No Name in Charlotte, North Carolina said: This is the kind of crazy immature arrogance I can't take. Mike, if your intentions are to work for ME go for it. You may or may not have a good experience. It really depends on the individual as well as "YOUR" particular ME. Don't let these emotional people scare you.

Look who's getting all crazy and emotional. The gal who keeps making dramatic exits and saying she won't respond anymore and then comes back all shrill and agitated.

Relax, don't be so threatened by a difference in opinion.

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mary in Charlotte, North Carolina

95 months ago

NO, I wish....although I have utmost respect for them. Bottom line, you have to do what is rigt for you. I'm happy where I am...I wish the people that have had bad experiences had sampled the experience I have in Charlotte. Good luck to everyone, there is a place for everyone.

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fed up in Wilmette, Illinois

95 months ago

No Name in Charlotte, North Carolina said: This is the kind of crazy immature arrogance I can't take. Mike, if your intentions are to work for ME go for it. You may or may not have a good experience. It really depends on the individual as well as "YOUR" particular ME. Don't let these emotional people scare you.

Miss No Name, We know the truth about this company and we are trying to protect our profession and our colleagues from making the same mistakes that we have made.

Don't judge us for telling the truth and wanting to help. O.K.

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MLA in San Leandro, California

95 months ago

Hey everyone. There is quite a bit of angst here, huh? I actually thought about working at ME for the "benifit" programs and bonuses they offer, as I have none. I worked at a Spa, then at a Medi-spa, both paid ok, no benifits though, of course. Did this while working outcall services in my spare time. One of my co-workers worked there and said she loved it, but had to work double the ammount of time compared to the spa because they paid $30/hr. That may sound like a lot, $30/hr.... if your working 8 hrs a day 5 days a wk! Thst was from her point of view. I weighed out my issues and decided NOT to work there. I felt I would be overworking myself to get paid what I was getting at a Spa down the street, literally.
Now, for almost a full year, I have been doing only outcall services, by referral only. Making a dollar per minute plus tips, never made that anywhere I've ever worked.
ME would probably be good to those wanting a little extra money or just starting out, otherwise IN MY OPINION I see no threat to me.
As a professional, I do see a cookie cutter image ME seems to produce with massage. Every single one a my clients now has been to or knows a close friend that has been to ME and each were very unsatisfied compared to my work or that of an upscale spa. The reason? Everyone did the same massage and didn't listen to what they really wanted.

I think everyone should go and see for themselves. Don't judge by what others think, hey what's $39 anyway, right, I plan on trying it soon, just to make sure.

BTW, this is an adult discussion, right? Some of it seems very childlike.

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Edward Wertz in Lubbock, Texas

95 months ago

fed up,

What truth are you talking about?

What has your experience been?

Your truth is YOUR truth stemming from a combination of YOUR personality, YOUR beliefs, and YOUR experiences. I am not about to claim you didn't have negative experiences but you seem to believe that your experiences are universal.

I don't think ME is the great Satan you're making it out to be. I would rather see ME reformed under its criticism as opposed to being abandoned as an institution.

Commercialization of the massage industry was/is an inevitability. As massage therapists gain respect in the medical community and as the profession increases in awareness, more and more people are becoming massage therapists. The schools are practically turning them out like puppies in a puppy mill. This flooding in the number of massage therapists is going to mean increased competition, causing the price of massages to go down, and it also means a lowering in quality of the average massage. Commercialization of the industry is flourishing because there is a super-saturation of new workers. If it wasn't ME, it was going to be some other franchise that popped up.

ME really hits 2 sweet spots. Many of the new massage therapists need a place to work. And there is a whole class of people who can't afford to pay 65+tip for their massage, but can afford to pay 40+tip.

ME is not at fault for their success. It is what people want, both clients and practicioners. Like it or not, businesses like ME are here to stay. In terms of the operating ethics of the business, if those are questionable then they need to be reformed. But if people felt like getting paid what they do wasn't enough, they wouldn't work there.

What are your specific complaints? Its nice and all to accuse something of being evil, but HOW is it evil?

Ed

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MIka marjanidze in west orange, New Jersey

95 months ago

ME pays hourly no mater how many massages u've done a day?

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MLA in San Leandro, California

95 months ago

Ed, you sreally hit it on the mark. Commercialization of our work is innevitable! I just don't like it. I encourage people to try it out even still, to know what massage is really worth to them, skills, money, time, ect. We all want people to respect us and value our service as more than a luxury, right. I see ME doing that, just in a BIG way.

Massages are never going to go out of trend as long as we are here to do them. So, be kind, explore, and learn more about who you are and what you desire out of your work, the clients then come to you without restraint. I wouldn't worry about ME if you think you are a great therapist yourself. It takes more energy to hate than it does to love. I know how that sounds, but if your a therapist, you are already a loving, giving person, don't become bitter or remorsful over something like ME, it's not worth it.

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elsewhere in Burbank, California

95 months ago

Edward Wertz in Lubbock, Texas said: As massage therapists gain respect in the medical community and as the profession increases in awareness, more and more people are becoming massage therapists. The schools are practically turning them out like puppies in a puppy mill.

Every year, ABMP conducts an enrollment survey of massage therapy programs in the States. The results of the last survey were published and communicated to schools last month. After several years of growth in terms of total enrollment, there has been a drop in the past two years - that is, a drop in the *total* number of students enrolling in massage therapy. I do not recall the exact numbers but I believe it was between 7% and 12% since 2004.

From the time of the previous survey to the last one, 52 massage therapy programs (out of 1,300 or so, if I recall correctly) were no longer in existence.

To me this would indicate that the tide has risen and is now receding somewhat. Most of those who went to massage schools were probably expecting a better paying gig than ME offers. That was always the allure for so long, great gig, great pay. Not so much anymore with places like ME around. The decline is predicted to continue with some long established schools like The Massage School of Santa Monica closing it's main campus this year and barely getting by on a trickle of students in it's Valley Glen campus. If you're into reading tea leaves these spell a shift in the business that a few years ago would have been difficult to predict.

Edward Wertz in Lubbock, Texas said: Commercialization of the industry is flourishing because there is a super-saturation of new workers. If it wasn't ME, it was going to be some other franchise that popped up.

Cheaper ME clones are already here undercutting ME's prices. Should we accept even lower wages for MT's? Where do you draw the line?

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fed up in Wilmette, Illinois

95 months ago

Edward Wertz in Lubbock, Texas said: fed up,

What truth are you talking about?

What has your experience been?

Your truth is YOUR truth stemming from a combination of YOUR personality, YOUR beliefs, and YOUR experiences. I am not about to claim you didn't have negative experiences but you seem to believe that your experiences are universal.

I don't think ME is the great Satan you're making it out to be. I would rather see ME reformed under its criticism as opposed to being abandoned as an institution.

Commercialization of the massage industry was/is an inevitability. As massage therapists gain respect in the medical community and as the profession increases in awareness, more and more people are becoming massage therapists. The schools are practically turning them out like puppies in a puppy mill. This flooding in the number of massage therapists is going to mean increased competition, causing the price of massages to go down, and it also means a lowering in quality of the average massage. Commercialization of the industry is flourishing because there is a super-saturation of new workers. If it wasn't ME, it was going to be some other franchise that popped up.

ME really hits 2 sweet spots. Many of the new massage therapists need a place to work. And there is a whole class of people who can't afford to pay 65+tip for their massage, but can afford to pay 40+tip.

ME is not at fault for their success. It is what people want, both clients and practicioners. Like it or not, businesses like ME are here to stay. In terms of the operating ethics of the business, if those are questionable then they need to be reformed. But if people felt like getting paid what they do wasn't enough, they wouldn't work there.

What are your specific complaints? Its nice and all to accuse something of being evil, but HOW is it evil?

Ed

Who are you?

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dave in Phoenix, Arizona

95 months ago

fed up in Wilmette, Illinois said: Who are you?

I see you did not answer the question. Lets hear the truth as you claim to know. My brother-in-law has worked for massage envy for the past 3 years as a therapist here in the valley. He has had nothing but good things to say about massage envy. I have been a client for the past 2 years and also have nothing but good things to say. Just to get it out of the way I am a Doctor here in the valley, so I did not want to be accused of being a corporate spy. I will also say that I am looking to invest in massage envy and that is what led me to this site. Please tell us specifically what is the truth, because I would be really interested in reading it. It feels to me that there is alot of paranoid people who are afraid that they will be put out of business if massage envy comes to close to their area. As a business man I can understand the sentiment. However, lets actually talk facts and not scare tactics to influence people. My research has found that massage envy employs well over 6000 therapists across the nation, It seems to me that there should be way more posts from angry ex employees than what I am reading here. Also, when I checked up on Illinois the first clinic opened about 1 year ago. So I would love to hear all about your experiencec with massage envy. Are you an owner of a clinic near a massage envy, or are you an ex employee. Please tell us your expertise.

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elsewhere in Burbank, California

95 months ago

dave in Phoenix, Arizona said: My brother-in-law has worked for massage envy for the past 3 years as a therapist here in the valley. He has had nothing but good things to say about massage envy. I have been a client for the past 2 years and also have nothing but good things to say.

Great, that's two people. Hardly a consensus.

dave in Phoenix, Arizona said: I will also say that I am looking to invest in massage envy and that is what led me to this site.

Nothing wrong with that Dave. But perhaps that's also part of the problem. Let me explain, you have never been in the massage business but now want to "invest" in it. In doing so you are right, some might indeed feel threatened. There are people who have "invested" their whole being into the profession of massage and probably have their very liveihood being theatened and so they react. It's a human thing, I'm sure you can understand as you have stated. No one likes carbperbaggers and interlopers, they are usually only serving their own self interests and not the overall interests of the profession.

dave in Phoenix, Arizona said: However, lets actually talk facts and not scare tactics to influence people. My research has found that massage envy employs well over 6000 therapists across the nation, It seems to me that there should be way more posts from angry ex employees than what I am reading here.

I have read plenty not just here but in other places and it causes me concern as an advocare of the profession. Bear in mind most of the MT's hired are new to the profession and think this job is a "stepping stone" to better opportunities. There is no evidence to show this is true, but rather as I suspect they are contributing to the lowering of expectations of the profession and it's worth letting them be made aware of that. Where are they going to "step up" to if better paying jobs are run out by the hegemony sought by ME?

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elsewhere in Burbank, California

95 months ago

LOL.. I swear this server mangles my text as I proof read everything before I post and yet still get errors.

It's "carpetbaggers" and "advocate"

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SueWest in Charlotte, North Carolina

95 months ago

There are plenty of spa owners out there who were never "in the business" or began as hairdressers, nail techs or esthetician and later added massage therapy to their businesses. (I know because I have worked for some.) Is it your position that only massage therapists are capable of managing a business that offers massage?

I read a lot here about how bad it is to be in this business for the money. Do you know anyone who runs a business (including independent MTs)who aren't in business to make money?

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mary in Charlotte, North Carolina

95 months ago

what is a carperbagger?

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dave in Phoenix, Arizona

95 months ago

Just so that it is clear, When I invest in the clinics they will be run by my brother-in-law, who I mentioned is a therapist. If that makes me a carpetbagger then so be it. I consider massage therapy to be a medical modality and having been in the medical field for 17 years, I do not believe that therapists have the sole right to consider how the profession evolves. Even in the medical field we have had to take cuts in our fees in order to provide care to the masses. Up until now you have had basically free reign in the pricing of your services to an extent. Unfortunately times do change and the ones who grasp this and not sit around complaining and moaning will come out on top. There will be the niche people who find there way around the lower prices, and I say god bless them. However, when my brother-in-law came out of school he was told many times by the high priced spas that he needed a year of experience before they would hire him. This was not an isolated experience here in the valley where high priced spas exist everywhere. So who gave him a job, massage envy. This is a place where inexperienced therapists can hone their skills and if they want to leave for greener pastures after a while that is great. This is exactly what this country was founded on. My brother-in-law has stayed for so long because he has loyalty to the people who gave him a chance. So I have read alot of talk about staying away from massage envy, but I ask what would these more than 6000 people be doing without the massage envy concept. Unless all of these big talkers are willing to hire them on at a rate they deem appropriate, stop all the bashing. I know most people are to short sided to understand that by getting massage out to the masses you will in turn increase all forms of delivery, from the spas to the individuals doing outcall. Massage envy is not for all consumers, but once they figure out how great massage is they will seek out maybe a more relaxed provider than a clin

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No Name in Charlotte, North Carolina

95 months ago

Ed,

I agree with everything you said and I hope the people that are considering ME will take your input into consideration. Unfortunately there are many people out there that don't want to hear ANYTHING positive or educational if it isn't negative about ME. Perhaps they are the ones who feel threatened and don't understand that there are enough people and businesses of all kinds to go around. Everyone's needs can be met and since people are different they have different needs. Makes sense to me but people with agenda's that feel threatened are usually unreasonable.

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No Name in Charlotte, North Carolina

95 months ago

Finally...people who make sense!

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No Name in Charlotte, North Carolina

95 months ago

I couldn't agree with you more, thanks for sharing in and educational, mature, none attacking manner.

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mary in Charlotte, North Carolina

95 months ago

I couldn't agree more. I've been doing massage for years, Massage Envy treats me way better than the upscale spa I used to work at. I have built a clientele that I can count on. What they leave me for tips compensates for the $15 base rate. Plus, the Massage Envy where I work ups the $15 per hour every 90 days by $.50, so I'm up at $17.50, plus my commissions and tips. This is a no brainer. I couldn't be happier. I work to my capacity, have breaks where I want them, don't do more or less than I want. All these nay sayers are a bunch of losers that have no confidence in their own capabilities, that is why they are threatened. Not to mention how much time they spend on line to complain! They will never be happy wherever they are. Wake up, try Massage Envy, if you had a bad experience, try another owner. My owners are great, they are involved in the business and treat us all with respect. Sorry you aren't all as lucky as I have been.

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elsewhere in Burbank, California

95 months ago

mary in Charlotte, North Carolina said: I'm up at $17.50, plus my commissions and tips. This is a no brainer. I couldn't be happier.
[

You don't require a lot to make yourself happy. Again, you are right where you need to be and I'm sure you'll be there a long time.

mary in Charlotte, North Carolina said: All these nay sayers are a bunch of losers that have no confidence in their own capabilities, that is why they are threatened.

Funny, I was thinking the exact same thing about you. How is it that anyone who complains about ME is a "loser?" I already told you my history. My interest has clearly been drawn by the huge amount of complains I hear about ME. I explored the genesis of these complaints and have been motivated to voice myself accordingly out of affection for my colleagues. You don't have to like what I say but to personalize it in such a degrading way speaks volumes about your own insecurities.

mary in Charlotte, North Carolina said: Not to mention how much time they spend on line to complain!

This from someone who uses multiple ID's.

mary in Charlotte, North Carolina said: They will never be happy wherever they are. Wake up, try Massage Envy, if you had a bad experience, try another owner. My owners are great, they are involved in the business and treat us all with respect. Sorry you aren't all as lucky as I have been.

An organization is only as strong as it's weakest link. For you to ignore the various complains of others in your chosen profession because you have found something that works for you personally is myopic.

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Edward Wertz in Lubbock, Texas

95 months ago

mary in Charlotte, North Carolina said: All these nay sayers are a bunch of losers that have no confidence in their own capabilities, that is why they are threatened. Not to mention how much time they spend on line to complain! They will never be happy wherever they are.

Mary,

You were fine until you uttered the part above which I am quoting. You cannot speak for other people the way you are doing here. This lowers the quality of your testimony to the level of blind zealot. Please keep to speaking from your own experience and refrain from speaking in the place of others.

Fed Up,

I am really a nobody. I just got my license and am going through training now to work at a new ME which is opening here in Lubbock. I have no undue company loyalty that is biasing my POV. My previous career was in computer science. I left because staring at a computer screen was not spiritually fulfilling. All I really care about any more is that people learn how to think clearly and without bias.

Now will you answer my questions? If not, why not?

Ed

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Edward Wertz in Lubbock, Texas

95 months ago

Elsewhere,

elsewhere in Burbank, California said: Every year, ABMP conducts an enrollment survey of massage therapy programs in the States....

Thanks for the stats. At least where I am at it looks like enrollment is increasing in the local schools and I was not aware of what the national trend was doing. Like you said people are probably learning that they're not making as much money as they thought they would.

elsewhere in Burbank, California said:
Cheaper ME clones are already here undercutting ME's prices. Should we accept even lower wages for MT's? Where do you draw the line?

Who is the "we" in your quote here? Isn't that a decision that each person has to decide for themselves?

Are you proposing that there needs to be state or national regulations on what a massage therapist gets paid?

We exist in a culture where market forces determine whether or not a business fails or succeeds. If the business's services are low quality for the cost, the business will fail due to no clientelle. If the business's working conditions are too low quality for the pay, the business will fail due to there not being any employees willing to work there.

Now the claim is that ME takes advantage of its workers. That really is a personal decision up to the employee as to whether or not they feel like those conditions are unfair. Some will feel that way, some won't.

As for the places that are paying less and charging less than ME, I personally would not work there, but that's a decision for each person to make for themselves.

Edward

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Edward Wertz in Lubbock, Texas

95 months ago

And just to point out, I went through training and I get to set my own schedule. I get to determine the number of hours I would like to work consecutively and total number of hours I would like to work in a day. If I am over working myself, that would be my own fault for miscalculating my limits.

I was also evaluating the training and I was impressed with the professionalism that the company is trying to achieve. There were a couple minor complaints, such as the feeling of being rushed in and out of rooms that a highly booked schedule produces.

Ed

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fed up in Wilmette, Illinois

95 months ago

Edward Wertz in Lubbock, Texas said: And just to point out, I went through training and I get to set my own schedule. I get to determine the number of hours I would like to work consecutively and total number of hours I would like to work in a day. If I am over working myself, that would be my own fault for miscalculating my limits.

I was also evaluating the training and I was impressed with the professionalism that the company is trying to achieve. There were a couple minor complaints, such as the feeling of being rushed in and out of rooms that a highly booked schedule produces.

Ed

Ed, I have made my argument already. If you are as you claim, just a guy going through school with big plans to work at ME in Lubbock and you have any real hopes of making yourself a career there, you are very mistaken. You will be very disappointed, I promise you. To prove my assertion, and assuming you'll be honest with us about this, report back in the next few months. Let's see if you're still there. And if you are still there, let's here about the big money you're making. Are you currently
making more than $30,000.00 a year now? You probably do, get ready for a pay cut. Men still don't do as well in this industry as women do. You're not likely to succeed as you plan. Again, that's assuming that you are telling us the truth about who you are, which as we know from experience in here, you're probably not.

Good luck to you just the same!

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elsewhere in Burbank, California

95 months ago

dave in Phoenix, Arizona said: I do not believe that therapists have the sole right to consider how the profession evolves.

That's an amazing statement considering they are the ones who actually know what it takes to do the work.

dave in Phoenix, Arizona said: Up until now you have had basically free reign in the pricing of your services to an extent. Unfortunately times do change and the ones who grasp this and not sit around complaining and moaning will come out on top.

Mere speculation and perhaps a bit of wishful thinking.

dave in Phoenix, Arizona said: I know most people are to short sided to understand that by getting massage out to the masses you will in turn increase all forms of delivery, from the spas to the individuals doing outcall.

Time will tell.

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dave in Phoenix, Arizona

95 months ago

They are the ones who actually know what it takes to do the job. What an arrogant statement, you do massage. This is not rocket science. I told you earlier that I am a Doctor I know the amount of money I make is absurd compared to say a teacher, who I believe are vastly underpaid for what they have to put up with. However that is the way of the market. I know this will irratate many of the therapists, but we all get it is a physically demanding job. It is no more demanding than a construction worker who works an 8 hour shift without taking a break after 4 hours. Get over yourself. Every job has its good side and its bad side, do not think your profession is any different. So how much business training did you get in your short time at massage therapy school, so do not presume to tell me that there are not more qualified people to figure out how to take massage to another level. I have only read these blogs for the last 24 hours and I can not believe the level of whining that I am hearing. Chris, I also read almost identical posts by you on another site from about 2 months ago. You should either come up with new ideas or just call it a day. How many times do I need to read the stats about the massage therapy schools that you love to spout. I see you did not answer the question about where all the therapists should work if they did not work for massage envy, it is easy for someone with a job to talk with all the people without one.

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Edward Wertz in Lubbock, Texas

95 months ago

fed up in Wilmette, Illinois said: Ed, I have made my argument already. If you are as you claim, just a guy going through school with big plans to work at ME in Lubbock and you have any real hopes of making yourself a career there, you are very mistaken. You will be very disappointed, I promise you. To prove my assertion, and assuming you'll be honest with us about this, report back in the next few months. Let's see if you're still there. And if you are still there, let's here about the big money you're making. Are you currently
making more than $30,000.00 a year now? You probably do, get ready for a pay cut. Men still don't do as well in this industry as women do. You're not likely to succeed as you plan. Again, that's assuming that you are telling us the truth about who you are, which as we know from experience in here, you're probably not.

Good luck to you just the same!

Fed up,

I am who I say I am. The location of my posts are automatically determined by IP address. You are welcome to google my name and find out more about me. My online handle is "algebraicring". If you still have difficulty in believing I am who I am, I'll give you my phone number and we can talk in person, just send me an email at gmail using my handle.

You seem to have your mind pretty much made up. If you had read the entire discussion, you would already know what my plans are with respect to ME and beyond. You would also already know that I have chided both sides of the argument for not being reasonable in their arguments.

It sounds like your mind is pretty made up and there is no openness to discussion on your part. You have repeatedly neglected to explain what your bad experiences were or why you are so anti-massage envy. Unless you're willing to explain yourself and help others understand your position, then I'm going to toss your opinion in the trash because you're not backing it up with anything real. All you have given is your opinion.

E

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elsewhere in Burbank, California

95 months ago

dave in Phoenix, Arizona said: They are the ones who actually know what it takes to do the job. What an arrogant statement, you do massage. This is not rocket science.

Nice dig "doc." It is you who are arrogant sir. By saying this you clearly illustrate that you do not "get it." Massage is as much an art form as it is anything else. The best massage therapist's are truly artists in the field. To you they are technicians and therefore a commodity you would like to make money off of. This is where I feel ME goes wrong in it's understanding of the field by putting the careers of MT's in the hands of people like you who know so little about it and have such a puny understanding about what makes it unique.

dave in Phoenix, Arizona said: Get over yourself.

Nice. You first.

dave in Phoenix, Arizona said: So do not presume to tell me that there are not more qualified people to figure out how to take massage to another level.

What "level" is that dave? The "mass production" "get'em in get'em out" model? Why debase the profession so? Why get so upset if there are people that value it more than you do?

dave in Phoenix, Arizona said: I have only read these blogs for the last 24 hours and I can not believe the level of whining that I am hearing.

And that's just coming from you!

dave in Phoenix, Arizona said: You should either come up with new ideas or just call it a day.

Yeah, you quoting the mass market corporate model is so refreshing dave.

dave in Phoenix, Arizona said: I see you did not answer the question about where all the therapists should work if they did not work for massage env, it is easy for someone with a job to talk with all the people without one.

Yeah, ME the great "savior" of MT's. Nice try dave. They would work where they have always worked. For the spas and such that ME hopes to put out of business.

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fed up in Wilmette, Illinois

95 months ago

elsewhere in Burbank, California said: Nice dig "doc." It is you who are arrogant sir. By saying this you clearly illustrate that you do not "get it." Massage is as much an art form as it is anything else. The best massage therapist's are truly artists in the field. To you they are technicians and therefore a commodity you would like to make money off of. This is where I feel ME goes wrong in it's understanding of the field by putting the careers of MT's in the hands of people like you who know so little about it and have such a puny understanding about what makes it unique.

What "level" is that dave? The "mass production" "get'em in get'em out" model? Why debase the profession so? Why get so upset if there are people that value it more than you do?

And that's just coming from you!

Yeah, you quoting the mass market corporate model is so refreshing dave.

Yeah, ME the great "savior" of MT's. Nice try dave. They would work where they have always worked. For the spas and such that ME hopes to put out of business.

Dear Elsewhere, Very well said!

Dear Doctor Dave, You really need to study this marketplace a little better so that you can understand what Elsewhere has so very well articultated!

Dear Ed, Thank you for the offer, but I don't want to chat with you about this on the phone, that's what this forum is for. I don't feel the need to answer all of your questions either. Just know that I have a great deal of experence in this industry and I have had a very bad experince with ME. I have nothing but distain for the is company. Dr. Dave so accurately personifies the arogance and greed that these people operate in. I would also encourage you to listen a little less defensively to people like me and Elsewhere so that you can really learn something from veterens who really know this industry. I continue to wish you good luck.

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Edward Wertz in Lubbock, Texas

95 months ago

fed up in Wilmette, Illinois said:
Dear Ed, Thank you for the offer, but I don't want to chat with you about this on the phone, that's what this forum is for. I don't feel the need to answer all of your questions either. Just know that I have a great deal of experence in this industry and I have had a very bad experince with ME. I have nothing but distain for the is company. Dr. Dave so accurately personifies the arogance and greed that these people operate in. I would also encourage you to listen a little less defensively to people like me and Elsewhere so that you can really learn something from veterens who really know this industry. I continue to wish you good luck.

You're the one that doubts my identity and now you're backing down from checking it out. Fine.

How can I really learn from your experience unless you SHARE YOUR EXPERIENCE? Sharing your final conclusion about your experience is not sufficient to help me learn from your experience.

I am not listening defensively, I am trying to engage you so that I can really learn. You basically attacked me and accused me of being false. How am I supposed to take you seriously when you're not going engage me in any kind of meaningful way?

Ed

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Edward Wertz in Lubbock, Texas

95 months ago

elsewhere in Burbank, California said: Massage is as much an art form as it is anything else. The best massage therapist's are truly artists in the field.

How does Massage Envy threaten or in any way put out of business the practicioners who wish to practice Massage as an art form?

Ed

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elsewhere in Burbank, California

95 months ago

Edward Wertz in Lubbock, Texas said: How does Massage Envy threaten or in any way put out of business the practicioners who wish to practice Massage as an art form?

Ed

Ed, when you've done this a couple of thousand times you will see that when done right it is pretty much an art form. The "art of healing" so to speak.

ME will potentially put out of business lots of the smaller independently run spas that currently offer massage services. This may not put out of business MT's but rather many will have to accept the terms of a large corporate run and controlled business all the while doing the same work they were doing but for considerably less than they were paid before.

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dave in Phoenix, Arizona

95 months ago

The level where ordinary people are able to experience massage. Yes, if it takes a clinic atmosphere to accomplish this then great. I told you I had been a member for 2 years, when I go on vacations or to CE's I routinely seek out a massage. This is what can occur if people are made aware of the product. Fed up said I should take a closer look at the market, maybe he should as well. In only 5 years massage envy has become the largest employer of massage therapists in the country, there is no way all of these people would be employed now without massage envy. I know in your Zen world this is disturbing to you, but too bad. If the therapists want to make owner dollars they should become owners, the only problem with that is that some people are not cut out to be owners. They do not want to put the time and effort that it takes to create a business that is successful. Owners should get the greatest share of the profit, we put up the funding and assume the risks of running a business. Most people can not handle the pressure of worrying about payroll, rent, insurances,advertising, the day to day gripes of employees,bill paying. Right now I employ about 65 people in my different offices. They have benefits,vacation,401k. This is the real world, you may be an artist as you put it. However there are alot of people that are just average to above average that need a place to work and the public is ok with this. So what is it that I do not get, is it the fact that I can provide jobs to say 30-35 people in each massage envy clinic. Yes, I will get paid because we are in a capitalist society. In case you have not been keeping track Socialism and Communism have not been faring well around the world. So no we do not split the profits equally amongst the masses. By the way mass production has given everybody in this country a great life style over the past century at a cost effective price. From automobiles to food to housing just to name a few.

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elsewhere in Burbank, California

95 months ago

"Zen World?" Dave part of what is disturbing to me is how condescending you can be in your responses to a concept that you have shown you really don't quite understand. You only see massage as a commodity, a "widget" that the mass production model can exploit and provide and a means for you, in your arrogant thinly veiled superiority complex, to make money off of. Clearly this is what it's all about for you. You go ahead and be an "owner" then and pat yourself on the back for how much "better" you are and how well prepared you are for this. Your arrogance grows with each post, thank you for displaying it.

You have yet to address the smaller business generally run by independent MT's that will be put out of business by the corporate overrun of ME which will lower the pay for the MT's. Why should you worry though right? It's a "dog eat dog" and may the best corporate model win right? The fact that you stoop to equate supporting smaller independent businesses with communism or socialism (quite a leap there, real Limbaugh?Hannity/Faux news talking points on display) shows that you have no problem inserting out of context analogies to support your firmly drawn conclusions.

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Edward Wertz in Lubbock, Texas

95 months ago

Elsewhere, Dave,

Your discussion has gone from informative to making personal attacks against each other. Please tone down the rhetoric as well. Once you hit the point of foaming at the mouth, there is nothing productive that can come from the discussion.

Edward

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elsewhere in Burbank, California

95 months ago

Actually Ed I was merely responding to condescending remarks. I am hardly foaming at the mouth and in spite of the rhetoric I think we are both making our points of view known for better or for worse.

That said I appreciate your approach and you will note that I am more than capable of handling a difference of opinion without being rude. I invite dave to do the same.

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dave in Phoenix, Arizona

95 months ago

I think our arrgances are running in a tight race. I do think my arrogance is confidence. Sorry I should have used talking points from the Kennedys,Clintons,and Obama's of the world. It makes more since to me where your thoughts are after that post. I know most democrats want things handed to them and not go out and earn them on their own. Yes, I love to make money. Funny how it is ok for you to go out and find people to pay 150 to 200 per session and not think you are in it for the money. You are just worried about whose pocket that it goes in. I guess it is just another case of the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer. Sorry I know we are not suppose to go there until the campaign is in full swing. Everything that is produced in this country and well as all services are a commodity. How miopic to think you have the only service that is above all of that. Have to go right now to make some of that evil money.

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