Massage Envy Salaries, Bonuses and Benefits.

Well stated sir.

lilravven in Owatonna, Minnesota said: Well stated sir.

Thank you!! :)

I'm a massage therapist, and have been for almost 3 years. I started out at ME. It was great experience. Massage is one of those jobs where practice makes you better, and at ME I got a lot of practice. Coming out of school I thought it was a pretty good deal $15 + ($10 to $20 tip) was awesome, with the exception of few people not leaving anything, I thought it was great. I don't regret working there but I would like to add a few things (I haven't read all 100+ pages so forgive me if I'm being redundant on some points). Massage therapy is a costly occupation, not only for the initial tuition fees which schools charge $10,000+ (I got lucky my community college offered a program and it cost me about $4000+; there's continuing education fees which you have to get 24 hours every 2 years averaging about $1000 to 2000 and your license $100+; there's the association fee $100-150 and liability insurance $100 to 150 every year. Now those are fees you have to pay whether you work for ME, a spa, anywhere. If you have your own business cost is a lot more. Anyway I only did that for 6mo before I moved on, to a slightly better paying one, after more experience I now work for a high-end spa making a good deal more, and starting my own business. This is where I'm really learning the reason therapist complain about places like ME. Having your own business with a lot more overhead, how can you keep up with a place that charges $40hr? ($50+ for memberships and therapist still get $15) ME averages 100hrs of massages on a weekday, 150+ on a weekend (and that's low ball estimate thinking they're open 10 to 12 hours per day and the have anywhere from 12 to 15 therapist working) they pay $15 so they get at least $25hr, and I understand that's not their profit (take out cost of operations and royalty fees they maybe make $10hr profit. So that means they still make $1000 to $1500 a day. I have nothing against that nor do I have anything against making massages affordable for people.

Sorry this is getting long, I do have a point. As an independent business owner, with overhead costs $1500+ mo if I charged $40hr and EVEN if I got 120 massages a month (sorry but massage therapy is not a job you can work 40hrs and not do damage to you body so I limit myself to 25-30, and realistically that's high volume for a small individual place, you would have to do a lot of marketing, be very very popular, or be in an area of high traffic)that's $4800-$1500-$3300. Which would come out to $27hr (without taxes), which I'm not complaining about, though keep in mind this is a very physically demanding job, a lot of therapist get injured within the first 2 years. And again that's estimating a very high volume, that is somewhat unrealistic. The real issue is places like this make it difficult for people to have their own business, plain and simple, if you chose to stay at ME there's not much room for growth. If you are a therapist doing 30+ hours of massages, you'd be injured sooner or later or be burnt out. I can sit at a desk work 40+ a week, or even be a retail store manager (which I was before I became a therapist) and make more money. The consumer loses out because the people who become really skilled, realize this, and either quit the business, or wind up working for ME and I've seen how they've become jaded and really turn their passion into a job. I love what I do and hopefully I become successful, and hopefully a ME doesn't open with 10 miles of me, because I know the economy is bad, people need relief but I can't stay in business charging $40hr.

I also forgot to mention that I'm actually taking a pay cut to work for myself (the spa job pays very well, which is why I work both). But I miss seeing clients on a regular basis, and do think massage should be affordable for everyone. It's incredibly rewarding helping people feel better, but I think consumers also need to realize that this isn't an easy job and it's not one you can do for 40hrs a week. So if you took it down to 30hrs a week making an average of $25 that's $2500mo (after taxes), almost $30,000yr average salary for LMT working for a place like ME. There are other jobs out there that make more (granted jobs that make less), but please take into consideration all I've said. When people complain about ME pay I'm sure most of them aren't people straight out of school, but seasoned therapist who want to get paid what they're worth, and know how difficult it is to try to get that when places like mE exist.

I also forgot to mention that I'm actually taking a pay cut to work for myself (the spa job pays very well, which is why I work both). But I miss seeing clients on a regular basis, and do think massage should be affordable for everyone. It's incredibly rewarding helping people feel better, but I think consumers also need to realize that this isn't an easy job and it's not one you can do for 40hrs a week. So if you took it down to 30hrs a week making an average of $25 that's $2500mo (after taxes), almost $30,000yr average salary for LMT working for a place like ME. There are other jobs out there that make more (granted jobs that make less), but please take into consideration all I've said. When people complain about ME pay I'm sure most of them aren't people straight out of school, but seasoned therapist who want to get paid what they're worth, and know how difficult it is to try to get that when places like ME exist.

lilldy1983 in jacksonville, Florida said: I also forgot to mention that I'm actually taking a pay cut to work for myself (the spa job pays very well, which is why I work both). But I miss seeing clients on a regular basis, and do think massage should be affordable for everyone. It's incredibly rewarding helping people feel better, but I think consumers also need to realize that this isn't an easy job and it's not one you can do for 40hrs a week. So if you took it down to 30hrs a week making an average of $25 that's $2500mo (after taxes), almost $30,000yr average salary for LMT working for a place like ME. There are other jobs out there that make more (granted jobs that make less), but please take into consideration all I've said. When people complain about ME pay I'm sure most of them aren't people straight out of school, but seasoned therapist who want to get paid what they're worth, and know how difficult it is to try to get that when places like mE exist.

That's why the low entry-level of the MT profession hurts you. Feeling bad for the small business person doesn't work as a marketing strategy; consumers want decent goods at a good price, even if it means staff may be underpaid. Wal-mart thrives.
Until MTs as a profession put pressure on State Boards to make a licensed MT need a BA or higher (exsisting folk are usually grandfathered in other profs when this happens), schools will churn out tons of fresh grads, who will keep ME/similar chains staffed, who will keep wages down for MTs.
As a prior poster pointed out- supply and demand; can't beat the basics of capitalism.
Those that post here that are doing well in their business have one thing in common- they SPECIALIZE. They don't compete with ME on the relaxation-type massage as much- they offer specialized services that ME can't. That may be your ticket, even if it requires more training. You'll likely still pay far less than a full BA.

DadMike in Maryland said:
As a prior poster pointed out- supply and demand; can't beat the basics of capitalism.
Those that post here that are doing well in their business have one thing in common- they SPECIALIZE. They don't compete with ME on the relaxation-type massage as much- they offer specialized services that ME can't. That may be your ticket, even if it requires more training. You'll likely still pay far less than a full BA.

I can't tell you how many people wanted trigger point therapy, NMT, Sports Massage when they went to ME. Those are SPECIALIZED techniques that need more training, and normally you would charge more for them. However, they charge the same whether it's a Swedish or any other, and the therapist makes the same no matter what. There are of course dozens of other techniques, but unless you're in a densely populated area where your specialty is in demand you may not get to use those as much (I guess that's where really good marketing comes in). When I got my license the test was much harder it was a National Certification, now they one that's much easier that people can take to be certified only in a state level, given a choice I would still take the national, but they're going in the opposite direction making it easier. Like you said Wal-Mart is very successful and so is ME, the business model works, there's so many other franchises popping up everyday. Just as Wal-Mart's put a lot on mom & pops out of business so does ME, and people are always going to be looking for a good deal, only thing is it's at the cost of quality.

Don't get me wrong I'm not saying wal-mart doesn't sell quality products, and there are absolutely great therapist working at ME and the like, I'm sure most of them love it otherwise they wouldn't stay. Maybe they don't want to go through all the hassles of marketing, doing your own taxes, everything that comes with owning your own business, or maybe they just do it part, in those cases it's a win-win. I'm just not okay with cookie cutter massages, treating clients as if they were numbers, watching the clock every minute you're in session rushing them in and out, and working so many hours just to make a decent salary that I would risk injury and reducing the quality of my massages. But that's why I want my own business.

lilldy1983 in jacksonville, Florida said: Don't get me wrong I'm not saying wal-mart doesn't sell quality products, and there are absolutely great therapist working at ME and the like, I'm sure most of them love it otherwise they wouldn't stay. Maybe they don't want to go through all the hassles of marketing, doing your own taxes, everything that comes with owning your own business, or maybe they just do it part, in those cases it's a win-win. I'm just not okay with cookie cutter massages, treating clients as if they were numbers, watching the clock every minute you're in session rushing them in and out, and working so many hours just to make a decent salary that I would risk injury and reducing the quality of my massages. But that's why I want my own business.

I like to travel in Florida a lot, and I have relatives in Jacksonville. Economy has really hit the cr@pper around there. You may have much better success with a business moving to a larger urban area w/better economy- DC, New York, LA, even Chicago. Beaches around St. Pete/Tampa have a few private massage places, no MEs, and I usually stop in when I am on vacation there. Maybe a beach practice may be better?
I wish you luck-- ME and similar spots are making competition fierce for the basic massage; if folks ask for highly specialized treatment ME can't reliably deliver, they will look elsewhere. And that may be the ticket for those that want to go independent.

Hey lildy1983, You make a lot of valid points and I agree with you that ME is a hard competitor. I own my own spa and am a small town (24,000 ppl tops)business but in only 4 years I have built a clientele that keeps me busy 36 table hours or more a week (exhausting), and turning many more of them away. I have hired other therapists and have a hard time getting clients to switch to them leaving the only option them building a clientele from the beginning again. I charge $55 for Swedish, $65 for DT, cupping and other specialized techniques such as preg., cranio-sacral etc, Stone work is $70 per hour with shea butter upgrades at $10. I didn't just sit in my office tho and wait for the phone to ring, I got out there and did free chair massage, joined the chamber of commerce and other networking events to build it. All the other places in town are privately owned or chiro's and 2 other day spa's within a mile of us. We are the highest priced joint in town and thriving. My advice to everyone is if you want to succeed you have to really push to get your name out there and do a quality massage every time. Spend less time worrying about what the other places are doing, set yourself some goals and then achieve them. People will pay for quality and good service. Don't let competitors prices be your excuse to fail. Trust me, you can succeed in spite of massage envy.

lilravven in Owatonna, Minnesota said: Spend less time worrying about what the other places are doing, set yourself some goals and then achieve them. People will pay for quality and good service. Don't let competitors prices be your excuse to fail. Trust me, you can succeed in spite of massage envy.

Thanks for the advice and I'm very happy for your success. Please don't take my posts as giving up or using ME as an excuse, there isn't one near me (and if it seems like I spent a lot of time thinking about the math, my brain over analyzes everything). I just jumped into this thread because it was interesting, especially since I actually worked there and saw the pros and cons, felt I could add more to the discussion. It's all simply my opinion on why people complain about ME and how franchises like it can impact independent massage businesses like mine. Being new to having my own business there's still a lot of learning to do, but I don't mind working hard for it. It's a competitive field, you've got places like ME, chiropractors' offices, other massage practices, so you can't just sit around waiting for clients to come to you. Like you said, you didn't just open your door and have 35+ clients a week, I hope in 4 years I'll be close to where you're at. That being said, places like ME charging $40hr with tens of thousands of dollars to spend on marketing, I think would have a much easier time of getting people in through their door in the first place. Especially with the economy the way it is, people need relief, most I'm sure would rather pay for a $40-50 massage than $60-70, they'll sign the contract and be with ME for at least a year, so what's the likelihood of them going elsewhere. It's more difficult to compete with, not impossible, just harder.

Lildy1983, It sounds to me like you are going to do great. I didn't mean to make you think that my comments were directed at you, just an in general what I have seen. Here is my suggestion to you, If you want to get fast track business, advertise in the local shopper with a very simple ad ($13-$15 a week) and give an Introductory Price of $40 for a 1 hour massage. Be sure you specify the following: New customers only, limit one per person and be sure to assign an expiration date on it. Have you price list ready for the clients to take home after your session and don't be afraid to tell people what you charge per hour normally right up front. If you are confident that you do a job worth what you charge it will instill confidence in the clients and they will be more likely to come back to you again and pay full price. If you don't see them again in 4 weeks (say they don't jump up and rebook the same day) send them a postcard or letter from you giving them $5.00 off their next session. Once you get them in 3 times in a rapid time frame you will find that people will see better results long term and book again. Good luck to you and it was fun chatting.

sittingdoe in Lynnwood, Washington said: Jeff from Jacksonville. very condescending Jeff. who wouldnt want to be at Massage Envy? the rates are so wonderfully low and gosh...what great service you get too? wow!!!! awesome!!!! coool!!!! but at who's expense???? the LMP's who do all the work? gee golly? it must be so hard to run your own business and pay the electric too? oh gosh, i don't think i can do it?? yet...hmmmm so many people do, but....i'm a just a LMP, i really don't know if i could make an honest living. oh golly gee Jeff, thanks for setting us all straight! your input, sooooo very helpful!

I totally agree. Jeff is clueless. Of course he enjoys it...he's a customer. I worked at ME in Vt and it's th same deal here. Exploited...and treated with disrespect.

latish in Edmonds, Washington said: Medical Professional? Isn't it only 1800 hours or less for licensing, I think Hairdressers serve more time than that. It boggles my mind that LMP's believe they should get 30$ an hour to start. I'm an RN and it took me 20 years of service to reach that wage!! Although I knew full well that I would be expected to do the work of Florence Nightinggale without the compensation. I'm not complaining but all you pampered pooches out there getting your massages, perms and nail tips at exorbitant prices and creating the elitist market will hopefully look around at the age of 80 while your wasting away in a nursing home and wonder where did all the qualified caring people go. No wonder none of today's children want to be teachers or nurses.I wish I could get an 18% gratuity for inserting that suppository just right!

I feel sorry for you. You sound depressed, victimized, and so unhappy.

I am in agreement that MT's should stop complaining about their wage and also agree that nurses have to work for years to earn what you think you are owed right out of school. If you owned your own business you would see that the $40 they get per hour goes to insure your clients, you and keep you out of court if you screw up and hurt someone and they sue. Not to mention the fact that the government requires that they pay an exact $ amount for Unemployment Insurance, Work comp insurance, Payroll tax (yes that is in addition to "what is taken out of your paycheck" which I might add still comes out of that same $40. The only reason that the business works is because it runs on bulk buying power and all they offer is massage. If you run your business out of your house, you don't have any overhead and you get double tax benefits and write offs that regular businesses don't. So stop being greedy and focus on what you got into massage (hopefully) to do...help people feel better. I have said this before but I charge $55-65 an hour for my work when all the other MT's in our town charge $39-48. There is no ME in this town it is all small business and private practice. Guess what...I am the busiest massage place in the entire town handling personally up to 36 hours of massage in a week, every week working Mon-Sat. I also have another therapist I hired last month who does 25-30 hours a week in addition to what I am doing. So if you are having trouble getting what you feel you deserve for your work then you have one of two problems. 1. You are a lazy MT who does only the bare minimum. 2. You think that customers are going to see your sign hanging there and go OMG! An MT!!!! YAY I can't believe it. I see many MT's that are either 1,2 or both and they complain about failing and blame others. Take responsibility for what you put into the world. If you want better then you have to do better.

escapemassage4u@gmail.com in South Burlington, Vermont said: I totally agree. Jeff is clueless. Of course he enjoys it...he's a customer. I worked at ME in Vt and it's th same deal here. Exploited...and treated with disrespect.

Blaming the customer is always bad for business.
Hope you change your attitude, or you will have a difficult time with success.

I have my own business, at my in home studio, and have been a CMT for over 20 years and make agreat living.

DadMike in Maryland said: Blaming the customer is always bad for business.
Hope you change your attitude, or you will have a difficult time with success.

BTW...It's not my attitude that needs changing, and as I stated before if you are not a CMT you should not even be on this site. This site is for CMT. I would not be telling you what to do in your job if I never had experience doing it. Clueles.

escapemassage4u@gmail.com in South Burlington, Vermont said: BTW...It's not my attitude that needs changing, and as I stated before if you are not a CMT you should not even be on this site. This site is for CMT. I would not be telling you what to do in your job if I never had experience doing it. Clueles.

Customers should have no voice.
Why is that?

Your Mom in Charlotte, North Carolina said: I would not recommend working for them. They would not hesitate to ask you to work 40 hours a week, stay to make up for someone else, not compensate for a no-show, not pay you for an hour that you sit there because they couldn't book you. You start out at $15/hr massage with a *promised* increase of 50 cents every 90 days, which is an empty promise. Average tip is about $8.

You are right on, I have worked for ME and thatis how it is.

Every once in awhile you'll get a consumer like mike here. Even though they know nothing of the actual profession, except getting a massage, they think they know everything about it. Mike is an Internet tough guy, and an elitist. If you don't agree with him, prepare to read his endless yammering fueled by an egotistical yearning to prove everyone wrong. His ridiculous arguments of full of what I call mike-logic. Is his logic flawed? You bet it is. Is he full of $hit? Undoubtedly. He comes on here and tries to make it seem like he knows every in and out of the business. Should the customer have a voice? Absolutely. If you're lucky enough to have your own business, this is the type of person to turn away. However, since this is the internet, anonymity makes it much easier to post your conceited, elitist views on here for anyone who wishes to read them. Ignore him, because he actually knows nothing about the profession, except for what only he believes is true. He never has proof of what he says...just more BS to back it up. I'm starting to feel a small bit of pity for you mike. Might just be heartburn though.

PK_lmt in Elgin, Illinois said: Every once in awhile you'll get a consumer like mike here. Even though they know nothing of the actual profession, except getting a massage, they think they know everything about it. Mike is an Internet tough guy, and an elitist. If you don't agree with him, prepare to read his endless yammering fueled by an egotistical yearning to prove everyone wrong. His ridiculous arguments of full of what I call mike-logic. Is his logic flawed? You bet it is. Is he full of $hit? Undoubtedly. He comes on here and tries to make it seem like he knows every in and out of the business. Should the customer have a voice? Absolutely. If you're lucky enough to have your own business, this is the type of person to turn away. However, since this is the internet, anonymity makes it much easier to post your conceited, elitist views on here for anyone who wishes to read them. Ignore him, because he actually knows nothing about the profession, except for what only he believes is true. He never has proof of what he says...just more BS to back it up. I'm starting to feel a small bit of pity for you mike. Might just be heartburn though.

Customers with opinions make you angry, too. Never been able to refute one thing factual I've said-- all you can do is personally attack. As for advising others to ignore me-- seems like you shouldn't advise others to do things you are not capable of doing yourself. Sorry I feel no pity for you-- you are actually entertaining. :)

Deni in Altamonte Springs, Florida said: Oh please, where are u living in wonderland?? Many LMT's have paid a lot of money to become a massage therapist and the pay I was offered by this place was an insult to my intelligence. They offer "NO" benefits, no raise expectations or anything. I gave my massage to someone that was not even a massage therapist, and was a wimp also.
LMT'S STAY AWAY FROM THIS PLACE IF U RESPECT YOUR VALUE!!

I worked at a ME and I totally agree,

From a customer's perspective, here some reasons the chains in massage are doing so well:

-Chains = safety in the minds of most Ameicans, and unfortunately prostitutes still regularly use massage as a front.
MT professional assocations really, really need to present a solid, media-intense campeign against this. Publish a customer "warning" sheet or some such thing about what is ethical, what is not, next to the ads in paper and Craigslist and such, maybe. Or take an ad out and publish any felony laws in the ad section? This is a HUGE deal, and turns many, many people away from massage. Also increases danger to MTs from customers looking for things not legal.

-Easy of access- finding a good MT can be a lot of work- you have to call diferent practioners, make appts, try out different MTs; hit or miss is OK when things are cheap- but when massage at a spa or private practice can hit 100 or more per hour, (at least in Maryland), hit or miss becomes a burdensome and expensive proposition. A large group pracice, like a chain, allows customers to quickly and easily locate legit MTs, and try out various MTs until they find a good fit for alot less per visit.
Also- your MT cancels an appt due to illness or what have you, there's always a back-up so you can still get a massage.

-Pricing- Massage is for me, and for most folks, a relaxation treat, and an expensive one. I used to get them for special occasions only, like a gift certficate for a birthday, etc. At 50 bucks an hour, the chains make it easy to become a regular.

-Level of need-- if you don't have an ongoing medical issue, a very basic massage can be satisfying. Chains with entry-level MTs can meet that need quite well.

Knowing a customer's perspective can be helpful for those that wish to start up or expand their business. Hope this helps! Effective competition between businesses always benefits the consumer.

It's been very insightful reading all of these posts. I've been out of the massage therapy business for 18 months now, really miss it and want to do it again. I've been a massage therapist for 16 years and have worked in almost every type of situation from working for a physical therapist, chiropractor, spa and running my own business.

I'm not coming back to it in desperation for work, so my opinion comes from that place. I currently have my own business that's not related to massage and I'll make sure that I don't consider ME as a potential opportunity to perform massage.

Many people think compensation should be based on education. I just don't see it. The massage therapy profession shouldn't be judged on the extensive educational requirements of other professions. My basic massage training was 500 hours, but after 1000's of massage hours and a lot of continuing education hours, I feel I'm highly skilled at what I do.

$15-$20 an hour doesn't cut it. I haven't been doing massage lately, because I have a lot of other interests and I love what I'm doing now. However, I've always been highly compensated as a massage therapist, even right out of school. It's a tough economy I know, but settling for a minimum wage(here in California it's extremely difficult to make a living at this wage) isn't the answer.

Also, most of my work is deep tissue and similar techniques and there's no way I'm going to put in the effort and give it my all for each and every client for nothing. Even a relaxing Swedish massage is worth far more than they are charging and the current rate they are offering their massage therapists.

Ok, I'm rambling here and I'm not going to get all that I was thinking across. Bottom line, thanks for all of your input and opinions if I agree or disagree, because the forum has saved me time and effort of submitting a resume and wasting my time with ME.

Tina G in Atlanta, Georgia said: I was offered a subcontract position at a new day spa at $24.00/hr. The spa provides all supplies. Is this a good rate? I was expecting more but I am fresh out of school. I will also get to learn some spa techniques that weren't taught at my school. Any thoughts?

Hello are you still located in the Atlanta area? I am currently trying to open up a Spa my spa will be a little different, but I am looking for some people to help me with this initative. I am also going to be looking for a Spa Manager who will need to have their esthetician license for the state of Georgia. I just have a few general questions and I want to make this industry right for the both of us.

I am trying to decide whether to cancel (It's been less than 3 days since I signed a contract.)

I had a great massage therapist. The best I have had, despite having more expensive (up to $120) massages in the past.

But I don't really want to exploit anyone here. In my field, I'm sensitive to that as well. (I also don't have a lot of money for luxury items, though I do have a lot of clients with a lot more money and the ability to generate referrals.)

Membership fees in these parts are $59/mo. (You can get additional massages for $39) They have a sign recommending tips based on the original (non discounted) cost of the massage. I tipped $20 for massage based on the sign.

Opinions appreciated.

Also, it's hard to find a massage therapist and $100 before tip is more of a risk than $56! I tried looking, and honestly perhaps was unfair in that I saw several quite obese therapists and didn't feel comfortable with them as sports massage therapists since they didn't seem to participate. I would love to find a therapist (even overweight) with athletic accomplishments listed; it would make me feel they understood the needs better and were in good shape for what must be a rigorous profession. I am not in the city but the suburbs. There is a massage envy here, but not a lot of therapists it seems. (Though it is an upper middle class suburb.)

Running Coach in Atlanta, Georgia said: I am trying to decide whether to cancel (It's been less than 3 days since I signed a contract.)

I had a great massage therapist. The best I have had, despite having more expensive (up to $120) massages in the past.

But I don't really want to exploit anyone here. In my field, I'm sensitive to that as well. (I also don't have a lot of money for luxury items, though I do have a lot of clients with a lot more money and the ability to generate referrals.)

Membership fees in these parts are $59/mo. (You can get additional massages for $39) They have a sign recommending tips based on the original (non discounted) cost of the massage. I tipped $20 for massage based on the sign.

Opinions appreciated.

You won't help that therapist's income by not seeing them anymore! If they feel exploited, they will quit- if you really like them, you can follow them and quit your membership then!
Because no one is FORCED to work there-- they're working because they need a job; if you quit, you may just end up sending folks on unemployment line.
15 and hour plus 20 bucks in tip $35.00 an hour. They may be able to do better elsewhere, but for a high school diploma plus less than a year of additional schooling that's a good wage.

I agree that everyone has a choice where they work and they agreed with that before they signed on. However, having experience in a spa environment, you can't count on the tips. Even in a high end spa, most customers don't tip that well. If someone is receiving a massage at a Massage Envy, I highly doubt that they have a tip factored into their massage budget. But that's beside the point, if you like a therapist, keep going to them. If they're that good, they might be happy in their situation.

They will be off to a better place when they're not. It is sad that a tip would be more than a wage and someone would need to rely on the good graces of the customer to determine if they'll make enough to live or not. It does also depend where you live. $20/hour in California is not going to pay the bills and a 40 hour work week doing massage isn't really a possibility.

As far as the thinking about pay. Most massage therapists that I know have post-secondary education besides massage therapy training. But, all the education in the world doesn't make for a great massage therapist. Pay shouldn't be rewarded based on education. If it gets results then pay should be according to the demand and perception of the service. My clients are very happy paying me $75 a massage plus a tip. They don't base it on my education, but how it makes a difference in their lives and most keep coming because they feel it's worth every cent.

Jay in Copperopolis, California said: I agree that everyone has a choice where they work and they agreed with that before they signed on. However, having experience in a spa environment, you can't count on the tips. Even in a high end spa, most customers don't tip that well. If someone is receiving a massage at a Massage Envy, I highly doubt that they have a tip factored into their massage budget. But that's beside the point, if you like a therapist, keep going to them. If they're that good, they might be happy in their situation.

They will be off to a better place when they're not. It is sad that a tip would be more than a wage and someone would need to rely on the good graces of the customer to determine if they'll make enough to live or not. It does also depend where you live. $20/hour in California is not going to pay the bills and a 40 hour work week doing massage isn't really a possibility.

As far as the thinking about pay. Most massage therapists that I know have post-secondary education besides massage therapy training. But, all the education in the world doesn't make for a great massage therapist. Pay shouldn't be rewarded based on education. If it gets results then pay should be according to the demand and perception of the service. My clients are very happy paying me $75 a massage plus a tip. They don't base it on my education, but how it makes a difference in their lives and most keep coming because they feel it's worth every cent.

Education isn't everything. It is a critical factor in determining starting wages. Supply and demand market forces. Chains pay poorly because massage school is faster & cheaper than 2 yr, 4 yr, or greater degrees. That = more grads, greater competition for entry level jobs. Employers can offer low wages and always find willing applicants.
If MTs want higher entry-level/chain wages, targeting schools and esp. local license boards to up ed requirements would be the most effective route.

I agree and I stated that education isn't everything. And I really disagree that increasing education requirements is going to change entry level wages for Massage envy or a spa for that matter. You'll end up with better educated practitioners making the same wage. All increasing requirements does is keep a lot of potential massage therapist from having the opportunity because of cost to forgo an education. Presently, most accredited massage therapy schools have more than adequate training to get started. I had 500 hours of training 17 years ago and that was more than enough to get me out and working in a physical therapy office for $32 a session. However the key is continuing education.

Most schools are now 720 hours and all more hours are going to do is make schools more money. Like anything , all any governing agency cares about is if a person is trained enough to not cause any harm. Chains don't pay less because of the training but they pay it because someone will seek employment at their establishment. I know therapist that have worked at Massage envy with a lot of training and experience and I think it also has a lot to do with what a person thinks of their own value.

This has always gone on in any profession. It doesn't look like Massage Envy is ever going to go out of business and they really do have a good business model that works. There are always price points and there are people that will pay for what they get.

I just know that there are plenty of opportunities for therapist in an employment setting to receive a better wage, but they have to put some effort into it and sell themselves and I think a lot of them just settle for joining on with an establishment like this because it's easier to do than searching and taking a chance on a position that they might not think they are qualified for.

Jay in Copperopolis, California said: I agree and I stated that education isn't everything. And I really disagree that increasing education requirements is going to change entry level wages for Massage envy or a spa for that matter. You'll end up with better educated practitioners making the same wage. All increasing requirements does is keep a lot of potential massage therapist from having the opportunity because of cost to forgo an education. Presently, most accredited massage therapy schools have more than adequate training to get started. I had 500 hours of training 17 years ago and that was more than enough to get me out and working in a physical therapy office for $32 a session. However the key is continuing education.

Most schools are now 720 hours and all more hours are going to do is make schools more money. Like anything , all any governing agency cares about is if a person is trained enough to not cause any harm. Chains don't pay less because of the training but they pay it because someone will seek employment at their establishment. I know therapist that have worked at Massage envy with a lot of training and experience and I think it also has a lot to do with what a person thinks of their own value.

This has always gone on in any profession. It doesn't look like Massage Envy is ever going to go out of business and they really do have a good business model that works. There are always price points and there are people that will pay for what they get.

I just know that there are plenty of opportunities for therapist in an employment setting to receive a better wage, but they have to put some effort into it and sell themselves and I think a lot of them just settle for joining on with an establishment like this because it's easier to do than searching and taking a chance on a position that they might not think they are qualified for.

Less people affording tuition and time = less MTs = less competition = higher wages

You have 3 days to cancel then you are locked in.

I'm a little afraid given what I've read here that he will quit and I will be left with a recurring charge for not a good massage, and perpetuating the low end wages.

I just wanted to say, I work for a massage envy, and the pay might not be "great", but as a starting massage therapist making 17 an hour, and having to do a practical on a manager who is also a massage therapist was great, you also make an average of $10 in tips per hour massage, once again not bad. I am sorry but people are not expected to tip, if you give a good massage you will get a tip. I am sorry to all the people that think this is a horrible place, at my location everyone treats everyone with the utmost respect and we all help each other out. I may be the only person out there, but this is my passion i love massaging and have been doing it since i was 10 on family members, been licensed for a couple of months, and i wouldn't change where i am at. I am not working for the money, to be completely honest i don't care about the money the main thing for me is helping people with muscular problems, and to help people relax (something that is very hard for people to do), i am doing 3 massages in a row and 6 in a day, and i know i can be doing so much more but i also know that i do not want to burn my self out by the first of the year.

AND yes you do get perks for working at a massage envy, you do get medical and dental offered, and you get a discounted price for massages at your location (to keep your body maintained) you also make more money when clients sign up, or if they decide to do aromatherapy, or Deep Muscle Therapy. you also get a raise and it all is determined on how much you get by what else you have done. they don't push you to do more than you can handle, and they give you a break that you feel you need, some feel like they just need a 30min break others need an hour, i love what i am doing and i love that i get the opportunity to help so many people in my work week. The money is not a reason I am massaging, I massage because i know i am helping at least one person feel better and relax when they aren't able to do it on their own.

latish in Edmonds, Washington said: Medical Professional? Isn't it only 1800 hours or less for licensing, I think Hairdressers serve more time than that. It boggles my mind that LMP's believe they should get 30$ an hour to start. I'm an RN and it took me 20 years of service to reach that wage!! ... I wish I could get an 18% gratuity for inserting that suppository just right!

Wow, it took me two years as an RN to reach $36/hour. As a massage therapist, I started out as an independent contractor making $20 to $25 an hour plus tips. With tips, I made more as a new grad LMT than I did as an new grad RN. HOWEVER, I have benefits as an RN and to me, that's worth a lot. I worked for an RN who received tips all the time. She provided services like electrolysis, laser therapy and waxing. Maybe you're just in the wrong line of nursing if you want tips.

And even as a nurse, I consider a Massage Therapist a medical profesional. The number of hours I spent on my massage training more than doubled the hours I spent on my nursing education. And as an LMT I have to maintain continuing education hours. As a nurse, no continuing education required.

RN and LMT in Glendale, Arizona said: Wow, it took me two years as an RN to reach $36/hour. As a massage therapist, I started out as an independent contractor making $20 to $25 an hour plus tips. With tips, I made more as a new grad LMT than I did as an new grad RN. HOWEVER, I have benefits as an RN and to me, that's worth a lot. I worked for an RN who received tips all the time. She provided services like electrolysis, laser therapy and waxing. Maybe you're just in the wrong line of nursing if you want tips.

And even as a nurse, I consider a Massage Therapist a medical profesional. The number of hours I spent on my massage training more than doubled the hours I spent on my nursing education. And as an LMT I have to maintain continuing education hours. As a nurse, no continuing education required.

What state doesn't require nurses to be licensed and not have continuing ed? You were making some good points, but that last sentence--- well, I know in Maryland that is completely false if you want to be a licensed nurse at any level; can't imagine it would be different in any other state, either.
Truth is the first poster has a point- compared to other medical professions, the educational requirements to be a fully licensed MT across the nation are incredibly low, usually around 9 months or so of classwork and training. Not even an associate's degree.
Doesn't mean you can't be more trained- but the low entry level is why places like ME and such can pay so low. And for the amount of education, it's a good wage. Which is why they don't have staffing shortages.
Education doesn't mean income, however-- business skills can make a huge difference. A nurse who's doing waxing, laser therapy, and electrolysis is in big-money cosmetic services, nothing that would be considered a traditional nursing service. And good for her. Same for MTs that make it big with their own clinics.
But that's based on business skills, not medical education.

I am glad I came upon this blog...I was a nurse..it seems the entire health industry is being turned upsidedown in managements favor ..and it seems like most jobs do not provide a liveable income...wishing all therapists the best ..we are all in the same situation...

DadMike in Maryland said: What state doesn't require nurses to be licensed and not have continuing ed? You were making some good points, but that last sentence--- well, I know in Maryland that is completely false if you want to be a licensed nurse at any level; can't imagine it would be different in any other state, either.
Truth is the first poster has a point- compared to other medical professions, the educational requirements to be a fully licensed MT across the nation are incredibly low, usually around 9 months or so of classwork and training. Not even an associate's degree.
Doesn't mean you can't be more trained- but the low entry level is why places like ME and such can pay so low. And for the amount of education, it's a good wage. Which is why they don't have staffing shortages.
Education doesn't mean income, however-- business skills can make a huge difference. A nurse who's doing waxing, laser therapy, and electrolysis is in big-money cosmetic services, nothing that would be considered a traditional nursing service. And good for her. Same for MTs that make it big with their own clinics.
But that's based on business skills, not medical education.

15 states....Arizona, Colorado, Connecticut, Georgia, Idaho, Hawaii, Maryland, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, Oklahoma, South Dakota, Tennessee, Vermont and Virginia are states that do not require CEUs for RN
licensure renewals.

The information provided above is from the Nurse.com website under CEU requirement by state.

Rolinda in Chula Vista, California said: 15 states....Arizona, Colorado, Connecticut, Georgia, Idaho, Hawaii, Maryland, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, Oklahoma, South Dakota, Tennessee, Vermont and Virginia are states that do not require CEUs for RN
licensure renewals.

Scary! You're right-- it's not called a CEU course in Maryland, it's called a "Refresher Course" that is required, per Nurse.com, to renew an RN-- but nothing is needed for a LPN. My confusion- my mother-in-law is a nurse, and needs to take CEUs-- but she is a Nurse Practioner, now that I think about it.
Sorry! My error- thank you for correcting me.

I am confused...I thought this form was for massage comments?

I understand how so many people can be upset with ME and working there. Any SA can tell you the training book is difficult... harassing customers into memberships and what you can say to overcome objections is ridiculous. But luckily, most clinics do not try and push beyond an uncomfortable point. I know at my location that your prechat is key, and that's how you build a rapport, but if you try your best and and try to overcome an obligation and the client still says no, that's when you can stop. Almost all the SAs cannot push as hard as they advise. If you are friendly, helpful, and make the client love their first experience, more likely than not you can get them into a membership. You can only work here if you can do that. No matter what, there will be objections and you will have to try to overcome it. But when you become uncomfortable and the client feels harassed, you have gone too far.

If you can balance that, meet your sales goals (1 in 5 people), you will be fine. Remember, you explained the membership to them. They signed the agreement. You just work there, the client may be upset with you (which I have not witnessed yet), but they understand this is your job. You are not really a front desk receptionist, but sales associate. You have to meet a goal, and you make money from these goals. Most people walk in knowing ME is a member based spa. There are plenty happy members who enjoy coming.

It is a REAL clinic and there are only professional MTs (and those beginning their careers, who have graduated school making them professionals) who work hard for more than likely underpay, but you knew that when you were hired.... I like it so far, my clinic has a great staff, and owner, but believe me when I say FD is not what you are, but a SA. You will notice that during the week of training, and if you are uncomfortable with their policies, don't take the job!

So, I have a question I am hoping that someone can answer. When you work at ME as an MT do the owners allow the staff members to trade massages? If yes, do any of the MT's get paid for performing them? Or do the MT's pay the client prices to receive their services. And last, do the MT's ever get asked to perform a massage on the owner or manager in the spa for training purposes or even just quality assurance reasons?

What do you offer your LMT?

sittingdoe in Lynnwood, Washington said: Jeff from Jacksonville. very condescending Jeff. who wouldnt want to be at Massage Envy? the rates are so wonderfully low and gosh...what great service you get too? wow!!!! awesome!!!! coool!!!! but at who's expense???? the LMP's who do all the work? gee golly? it must be so hard to run your own business and pay the electric too? oh gosh, i don't think i can do it?? yet...hmmmm so many people do, but....i'm a just a LMP, i really don't know if i could make an honest living. oh golly gee Jeff, thanks for setting us all straight! your input, sooooo very helpful!

To all of you who work at Massage Envy--if you don't like the pay, leave and find work somewhere else. You knew what the pay was when you started so why complain now? Maybe they are taking advantage of you but maybe their expenses exceed their income. I'll bet not every ME is rolling in cash.

I will be graduating in a few months with a degree in Massage Therapy, from a highly reputable massage school in New Jersey, and I am now questioning my decision of paying thousands of dollars ( tuition, books, ect.)for my degree. The only thing I like about the “discount” massage places is that it has provided the benefits of massage to a larger number of people. I didn’t get into massage to become rich but my intentions were to make a decent living. One thing some people don’t understand is that in order to give a great massage it takes a lot of effort of the massage therapist which is very hard on the workers body. As a result massage therapist can only perform a few massage’s a day without causing harm to their bodies and even though $15 is a good wage for most jobs, if you’re working a 40 hr week, not when you’re working only about half that. You only get paid at these “discount” massages place $15 per massage not $15 an hour. Friends of mine, who are massage therapist, tell me that they have on many occasions been at the “discount” places for like 6 hours and only performed 3 massages during their shift (7.50 an hour for the hours they were at work and still have to pay taxes, pay for licensing, insurance, and continuing education courses that are required by state law). If a worker pushes themselves to work more hours to make a better living it only hurts the client’s experience-who will not get that “great massage” everyone deserves. If the trend continues to move towards "discount" massages then the states should lower the requirements for schooling and fees that justify the lower wages?(I'am asking) More education should equate to more earnings but that doesn't seem to be the reality in this industry. From my own experience there is a big difference between a $39 massage and a $60 massage besides the price. Like the saying goes.. "You don't know what your missing",and "You get what you pay for!".
Thank you for allowing me to share my thoughts.

What people seem to be forgetting is the fact that Massage Envy provides you with EVERYTHING you need. My location provides sheets, laundry service, holster, lotion, a hydraulic table, and a towel caddy in every room. All I have to do is provide a great service! They are extremely flexible with my schedule, they allow me to take time off when I need it (time permitting of course), health benefits, raises, and the most importantly, CLIENTS. I am always booked effortlessly! And every Massage Envy I have ever been to makes a point to remind clients the value of their service and that they should tip accordingly. I never make less than $30 an hour which is about average no matter where you work as a therapist!

I'm currently working at a ME in a very affluent area in SoCal...I am over 40, have a BA and chose a different life path and went to bodywork school. I've been at this location for almost a month, have yet to be offered health insurance or a 401K and don't get paid unless I'm massaging.

I've learned that clients aren't particularly friendly, appreciative or generous. They also know if they complain, they'll get comped or discounted... And with 5 min between clients to clean room, wash hands, greet the next person, etc. it's tough to develop any meaningful rapport.

I entered this field in order to provide a level of comfort and healing and had a pretty basic hope of making someone's day better, but that is being squashed a bit. It's frustrating as a people person and someone who is truly grateful for SOOOOO many things everyday....the sun coming up, my dog, the Pacific Ocean, my boyfriend, food, clean water, etc.

I don't think people realize how expensive the training is, what an hourly rate for an MT is at ME, or that tips really make the difference. Sorta like being a waitress...you DEPEND on the tips and if you're providing good service...then you would expect a decent tip. Like has been mentioned here, working 40 hours and providing the BEST massages AND taking the best care of your body, just isn't practical or recommended. Of course there are therapists who do it, but they're in some sort of physical pain, I can almost guarantee it.

ME, is a great place for experience, but I see it as a stepping stone. It's certainly not money that a single woman (no kids) can live on.