Massage Envy Salaries, Bonuses and Benefits.

I did not say you dont', and I did not put you down, I just suggeted that you STOP putting down everybody else. What you do is noble and great, and so is what many other people do. So, before putting down everybody else, and before claiming that you KNOW and DO and are MORE PRECIOUS than everybody else, please realize that you are NOT GOD!

Being in the forum has really damaged the image on LMT for me, and I am sorry to say, I now have much less respect for you. I have come to the conclusion that many of the LMT have issues with who they are, and what they do. I cannot help but thinking that the person who is so nice to me when I get a massage is probably one of those in this forum who thinks s/he is better than the rest of the world, offering a noble service of a selected group of people, and is nagging at all times!

You guys are ruining your own image through this forum. I seriously suggest putting an end to this pointless thread and starting to respect each othre.

I personally never intended to put down anyone, but when I saw that in this forum LMT were putting down every possible profession in the world and bit@#$@#ing all the time (including nurses, teacher, doctors, etc) I had to say it: you are NOT the unique noble professionals of the country, you are just one of the many. If you dont' like a certain company, dont' work for them, but DO NOT INSULT and PUT DOWN all other hardworking professionals.

client in CA in American Canyon, California said: I did not say you dont', and I did not put you down, I just suggeted that you STOP putting down everybody else. What you do is noble and great, and so is what many other people do. So, before putting down everybody else, and before claiming that you KNOW and DO and are MORE PRECIOUS than everybody else, please realize that you are NOT GOD!

Being in the forum has really damaged the image on LMT for me, and I am sorry to say, I now have much less respect for you. I have come to the conclusion that many of the LMT have issues with who they are, and what they do. I cannot help but thinking that the person who is so nice to me when I get a massage is probably one of those in this forum who thinks s/he is better than the rest of the world, offering a noble service of a selected group of people, and is nagging at all times!

You guys are ruining your own image through this forum. I seriously suggest putting an end to this pointless thread and starting to respect each othre.

I personally never intended to put down anyone, but when I saw that in this forum LMT were putting down every possible profession in the world and bit@#$@#ing all the time (including nurses, teacher, doctors, etc) I had to say it: you are NOT the unique noble professionals of the country, you are just one of the many. If you dont' like a certain company, dont' work for them, but DO NOT INSULT and PUT DOWN all other hardworking professionals.

I think maybe you should read some of these posts a little more closely. I for one do not think of myself as elite. I am not puting other professions down either. I dont consider myself God either, I dont think ANY of us should put ourselves on that level. So far as ruining our image, I think the way that you see us and take our services shows that there isnt much respect in the first place.

client in CA in American Canyon, California said: I did not say you dont', and I did not put you down, I just suggeted that you STOP putting down everybody else. What you do is noble and great, and so is what many other people do. So, before putting down everybody else, and before claiming that you KNOW and DO and are MORE PRECIOUS than everybody else, please realize that you are NOT GOD!

Being in the forum has really damaged the image on LMT for me, and I am sorry to say, I now have much less respect for you. I have come to the conclusion that many of the LMT have issues with who they are, and what they do. I cannot help but thinking that the person who is so nice to me when I get a massage is probably one of those in this forum who thinks s/he is better than the rest of the world, offering a noble service of a selected group of people, and is nagging at all times!

You guys are ruining your own image through this forum. I seriously suggest putting an end to this pointless thread and starting to respect each othre.

I personally never intended to put down anyone, but when I saw that in this forum LMT were putting down every possible profession in the world and bit@#$@#ing all the time (including nurses, teacher, doctors, etc) I had to say it: you are NOT the unique noble professionals of the country, you are just one of the many. If you dont' like a certain company, dont' work for them, but DO NOT INSULT and PUT DOWN all other hardworking professionals.

By the way, I also realize that most of the posts defending ME are from ME owners and Managers. Two types of people read this forum, people looking for jobs and ME owners checking on their reputation. There isnt much cause for a ME clients to be looking through a job board for therapists, and taking these discussions so seriously thet they would take time to post. Its not hard to figure out. Weather you are a client or owner, good luck to you.

Here Here! The poor downtrodden who allow themselves to be exploited at ME (for no money apparently) so that they can deliver massage to the masses come across as much more appealing than those whiners who say they do what they do for the love of massage and that they don't care about money. These same people then go on to say that they would never work for ME because of ... THE MONEY! They do come across as superior, disingenuous and selfish.

Autey in Charleston, South Carolina said: Here Here! The poor downtrodden who allow themselves to be exploited at ME (for no money apparently) so that they can deliver massage to the masses come across as much more appealing than those whiners who say they do what they do for the love of massage and that they don't care about money. These same people then go on to say that they would never work for ME because of ... THE MONEY! They do come across as superior, disingenuous and selfish.

The same goes for those of you who dont really care how much therapists make and say they should be doing it for the love of the porofession not the money. We shouldnt care about money, but aparently YOU care about the money when it comes down to paying for the service. So its ok to expect a break on pricing but the therapist should expect nothing? Interesting.

Jareef in Texas, bravo. Mix it up is a wise piece of advice for therapists and clients. I'm both. Someone knocked students in an earlier comment ... big mistake. I value years of experience but also appreciate that many recent grads have received updated training in school and perhaps more clinic hours that MT who received their training years ago, especially if they haven't been taking seminars etc.

On a more positive note ... Any world travelers out there? I've received MT when traveling and it is definitely a service sector service. Has anyone received it in a more medical setting outside the U.S? I'm guessing the service sector model is more prevalant e.g. ME and MT are destined to be treated and paid like waitresses/waiters. Chateaubriand anyone? If ME doesn't want to pay the going hourly rate then perhaps the gratuity should be added automatically to the bill as it is internationally.

LMT/CMT in Phoenix, Arizona said: By the way, I also realize that most of the posts defending ME are from ME owners and Managers. Two types of people read this forum, people looking for jobs and ME owners checking on their reputation. There isnt much cause for a ME clients to be looking through a job board for therapists, and taking these discussions so seriously thet they would take time to post. Its not hard to figure out. Weather you are a client or owner, good luck to you.

LMT/CMT,

You make an excellent point! Please be truthful and identify yourselves ME owners and ME managers. Don't pretend that you're just wholesome, enlightened clients, we can see through you with our clairvoyance, LOL! Come clean and admit to yourslves and to all of us that you're just running 2 bit Wal-Marts!

The bottom line here is that this forum is for Massage Therapists. We can discuss business trends. Good places to work as well as the bad. If you are not an MT, then your comments hold little water. ME could charge $49 for their massages and that still would be a good rate for the consumer and more money for EVERYONE else employed there. But I wonder how many complaints they would get for the $10 hike. There are things that I cant afford to buy, thats life. If you really cant afford massage, there are therapists that will work with you. If its a luxury item for you then join the club. If you cant afford it then dont buy it. I think the assumtion that any therapist working at ME that isnt happy with their work environment or complains, is lazy, has a bad attitude or is a poor therapist is an ignorant assumtion. I work at a Spa that recently hired 3 ME therapists from the area. Are you going to say that they are not good therapist because they complained about their experience with ME? They all came from different locations and had the same complaints. A coinsidance? I dont think so. Some of these posts from "clients" are far to the left. Most of the MT's I know are great people and have great attitudes about their work. If reading these posts are diminishing your opinions of MT's, then stop reading them. Realize that we have the right to vent and exchange ideas just like many of you do at your jobs on Monday morning.

This forum is for anyone who wants to discuss Massage Envy as I have stated earlier. That includes but is not limited to current, future and former employees, owners, customers, and the general public. Anyone is welcome to comment as long as they abide by our rules.
Thanks for such an interesting discussion!

Identity Check:
I had a massage at ME and then became interested in the concept of a storefront, affodable massage store. I had no idea there was such emotion connected with it until I stumbled across this forum. I own a business (not massage related) that I started from scratch, risking everything. So maybe I am biased on the side of the employer. In my business, people come and apply for a job. I don't go to them. Is it that way at ME? Or does ME go grab LMTs and make them work there, keeping them from going anywhere else?

Autey in Charleston, South Carolina said: Identity Check:
I own a business (not massage related) that I started from scratch, risking everything. So maybe I am biased on the side of the employer.

Autey,

I started my business from scratch also. The difference between you and me is that I'm a therapist and a clinic owner for over 25 years and I employ massage therapists.

My concern with this company is that they have a flawed business model, what I'll call the "Wal-Model". One of the problems with discounting is that someone has to take a hit. There are No free lunches! Walmart sticks it to their vendors, they control the vendor demanding exclusive low pricing and because they are the biggest retailer in the country, the vendors have to submit and give them what they want. Tragically, Wal-mart also squezes the little guy, the employee. Because they often control a lot the retail in smaller towns, people are forced to work for them at minimum wage because again, Wal-Mart takes control and takes advantage. What about upper management and the stock holders? They keep getting richer. Do you see now?

This is very much like Masssage Envy. They are discounting which has quickly established them as the largest massage provider in the country. The problem is that someone is paying for the discount. Esentually, the therapist takes the hit, buying lunch for both the
clinet and the owner as it were. While the owner sells the memberships, churns the clients and gets rich. The therapists lose! Plain and simple. That's why I hate this concept. I've worked very hard for years in this industry doing things right, paying people a good wage and respecting them. I don't see anything good coming from this company. It's based on greed and ultimatey I believe that the whole flawed concept will fail. Therapists hate this company's concept because it is so foreign to what we've worked so hard not to be.
Do you see now, Autey? Please let me know.

Therapist - Clinic Owner in Wilmette, Illinois said: Autey,

Walmart sticks it to their vendors, they control the vendor demanding exclusive low pricing and because they are the biggest retailer in the country, the vendors have to submit and give them what they want. Tragically, Wal-mart also squezes the little guy, the employee. Because they often control a lot the retail in smaller towns, people are forced to work for them at minimum wage because again, Wal-Mart takes control and takes advantage. What about upper management and the stock holders? They keep getting richer. Do you see now?

But here's the problem with this argument - tons of people shop at Walmart. It's providing something that people want. Same with IKEA, Amazon etc. We (collectively) are patronizing those stores ...buying foreign made automobiles etc, and collectively driving down our incomes. (I'd claim through greedy consumerism, but that's another discussion!)

Here's a question for massage therapists - when was the last time you paid the equivalent of "full price" for a massage? Do you do so every month? If not, why not?

As a massage therapist I think $100 (including tip) is a hefty price to pay for a massage (and I'm talking Northern California where the average licensing requirement is around 200 hours) and I'd love to find a realistic way to deliver massage to a wide populace at a lower cost. Realistic is the key word here - as I'm also very cognizant of what it costs to run a business. Overheads in the service industry are substantial - and there are few industries in general where the "seller" makes half of the cost of the item sold. I'm not sure why massage should be the exception.

I'm also curious why one hour of massage has turned out to have a worth of around 4 hours of the clients post tax pay (OK - I'm just grabbing numbers here) Seems to be a fundamental mismatch .... though I don't think the solution is the one that ME is offering.

Christine

Christine in San Mateo, California said: But here's the problem with this argument - tons of people shop at Walmart. It's providing something that people want. Same with IKEA, Amazon etc. We (collectively) are patronizing those stores ...
Christine

Christine,

I won't shop at Wal-Mart and I ask my friends to boycott them as well. The sad story here is that Wal-Mart and Massage Envy don't have to do business this way. Costco has a great business model. They charge about the same as Wal-Mart/Sams Club, but they pay their people a good wage and they don't kill their vendors. The customer does well, the company does well and the employee does well - everyone wins. Costco's merchandise is also far superior to Wal-Mart's and Sam's. Starbucks has a winning concept for all as well. They are profitable, pay their people well and we certainly know that they don't discount.

So, again I have to point back to the flawed business model of both Wal-Mart and Massage Envy, "Wal-Model". The whole foundations of these organizations are unstable. They are built on sand, not rock. Costco & Starbucks have rock foundations, not cracked or flawed. You may argue that Wal-Mart is king, nothing can touch them, but big profitable companies fail all the time. Wal-Mart cound fail next year, next month for that matter. Companies don't have to take advantage of people to get ahead. Tragically, Massage Envy has built their model on just that, building fast by taking advantage of the little guy and trying to control the market.

So, Christine, I ask you too and everyone reaading this to boycott Wal-Mart and boycott Massage Envy. Please don't reward the flawed and greedy "Wal-Model".

We are in a global market. Many of the individuals who can afford to purchase franchises like ME (fast food, coffee shops, etc.) have seen how cheaply workers are paid around the world ... including massage therapists. Ask someone how much they paid for their Swedish, Japanese and Thai massage. We are now part of an international market and not alone ... ask anyone in the computer, auto, airline industries etc. Even surgeries are being offered in India for a fraction of what it costs in the U.S. by individuals trained in U.S. schools and hospitals. Who is making the money in the U.S.? One example is "not-for-profit" organizations like most health insurers who pay a few individuals at the top outlandish salaries. This situation is slowly being corrected, however, it will result in a lower (internationaly) standard-of-living for everyone. However, perhaps a lower-cost-of-living to go along with it. In the meantime, if we want to be players in the internatinal market, not just a commodity, we need to participate on a management and investment level. If ME is not willing to include MT in management and as investors, we need to do it ourselves or the organizations we are already supporting like AMTA and ABMP.

I see what you are saying but let me make sure. It seems you are saying that since ME controls the massage market in a given area, other spas can't survive. This makes ME the only potential employer for LMTs in that area. So they have to work at ME or nowhere.

This situation would indeed be bad for the LMT but it assumes 2 things; 1 is that the therapist is inherently worth more than what ME will pay, and 2 that no-one in the community (or very few) want anything better than what they can get from ME. It's saying that the Hyundai dealership is putting the Cadillac dealership out of business because everyone just wants a Hyundai. Unless there is no Cadillac dealership to start with.

Unfortunately for therapists, it may turn out that the ME model may redefine their inherent worth. It is now being copied pretty heavily it looks like by outfits such as Massage Heights (massageheights.com), Zen Massage (www.zencharlotte.com), etc.

It has happened in other industries (nursing for instance, my field). The laws of the free market apply however. If the typical pay for an LMT goes down, fewer people will choose it as a profession. Owners will have to compete with each other for the dwindling supply of therapists and will have to raise salaries to attract them. Then more people will start choosing it as a profession. It's cyclical in my industry too.

But the ME model is out there now and probably won't go away. I agree with an earlier poster that therapists and spa owners will have to step it up to convince consumers that what they offer is worth the difference in price. Establish the Cadillac dealership for people who prefer knowing that they purchased the top-of-the-line product. Otherwise get used to the sub $50 massage store.

Because it's not said enough, I'd like to remind those of you who are not therapists that it is physically impossible for massage therapists to work a 40-hour work week. Even 20 hours would be trying for most therapists. That's why the paltry $15/hr that Massage Envy pays is a disgrace.

Layla in Houston, Texas said: Because it's not said enough, I'd like to remind those of you who are not therapists that it is physically impossible for massage therapists to work a 40-hour work week. Even 20 hours would be trying for most therapists. That's why the paltry $15/hr that Massage Envy pays is a disgrace.

It's kinda tricky to come up with a business model that permits full time pay for part time work :(

It's a rare spa-type business (with employees vs IC's) that can afford to put out more than 30-35% of revenue to pay their service providers and still survive financially. Any practical suggestions to reconcile that problem would be wonderful.

Honestly - I think it is a lifestyle choice to work only 20 hours per week and not entertain the idea of additional work. Most of us would have to do so, regardless or the industry we are in. More power to you if you can make it work!

Christine

client in CA in American Canyon, California said: I did not say you dont', and I did not put you down, I just suggeted that you STOP putting down everybody else. What you do is noble and great, and so is what many other people do. So, before putting down everybody else, and before claiming that you KNOW and DO and are MORE PRECIOUS than everybody else, please realize that you are NOT GOD!

Being in the forum has really damaged the image on LMT for me, and I am sorry to say, I now have much less respect for you. I have come to the conclusion that many of the LMT have issues with who they are, and what they do. I cannot help but thinking that the person who is so nice to me when I get a massage is probably one of those in this forum who thinks s/he is better than the rest of the world, offering a noble service of a selected group of people, and is nagging at all times!

You guys are ruining your own image through this forum. I seriously suggest putting an end to this pointless thread and starting to respect each othre.

I personally never intended to put down anyone, but when I saw that in this forum LMT were putting down every possible profession in the world and bit@#$@#ing all the time (including nurses, teacher, doctors, etc) I had to say it: you are NOT the unique noble professionals of the country, you are just one of the many. If you dont' like a certain company, dont' work for them, but DO NOT INSULT and PUT DOWN all other hardworking professionals.

I do not recall anyone insulting a doctor, one used his brother as a reference but I dont recall him puttting them down. As I said I have a job in a hospital on the side of massage. I have respect for the nurses and some of the doctors I work with. Believe it or not some people actually are stuck in certain jobs, its not so simple to jump and find a new job. But why should someone lower their expectations of how they should be treated to please anyone??? I sure as hell won't.

blue in Collierville, Tennessee said: You all are pretty funny. "Medical Professionals" what BS. And as far as hard work when was the last time you lifted a shovel for 8 straight. Oh...$15 per hour pretty damn good starting wage. That's starting salary for a teacher who has WAY more education than you and far more impact on society. If you want to make a $100k then do a job that's worth a $100k. Go out, shell out $250k and open your own place, staff it with over paid lazy asses and see how long you last.

This guy is the perfect example of someone who knows nothing about the massage industry and nothing about healthcare for that matter.

The real tragedy here is that he's probably a Massage Envy franchise owner! He doesn't respect the profession and certainly not the professional that he's taking advantage of and trying to get rich on! Pretty screwed up, huh?

blue in Collierville, Tennessee said: You all are pretty funny. "Medical Professionals" what BS. And as far as hard work when was the last time you lifted a shovel for 8 straight. Oh...$15 per hour pretty damn good starting wage. That's starting salary for a teacher who has WAY more education than you and far more impact on society. IF you don't like the situation then don't do it. If you want to make a $100k then do a job that's worth a $100k. Go out, shell out $250k and open your own place, staff it with over paid lazy asses and see how long you last. It will be a good lesson in why you should have chosen Network Engineering as a career instead.

Blue...ppl like you belong on a lil island far away from reality. I don't recall anyone in here insulting you, yet you come in here with the attitude that LMTs are not medical professionals. What would you call them then?? Your nasty attituse is the reason you lift shovels 8hrs a day. Don't blame us you can't get a real job, blame your attitude and lack of drive in life.

ME is opening up a new store here in Texas where I live and they recently sent me a postcard asking me to apply to work with them. I have read about them in the massage magazines and while it sounds like a good deal for clients, I need more money than they or day spas pay in order to pay my bills and support my family.
Juanita
www.chairmassageisforyou.com

Actually there are a number of organizations that have realized this dilema and have offered MT other ways to fill out a 40-hour week. Health clubs offer customer service, sales, personal training, class leaders, childcare, administrative, maintenance and security positions. Hospitals offer medical coding, receptionist, customer service, various positions in the hospital (cna etc.) So far ME seems to be one of the few organizations that don't hire MT for support and admin jobs to allow them to have a 40-hr week.

i am a massage therapist. i dont work at ME, I work at a Casino Spa. I work about 24-28 hours a week. I wouldnt want to work anymore than that because we make good money in those hours (about 500-700 a week) depending on how tips were that week. So as far as my establishment goes you couldnt pay us much more money to clerical or administration work on the side of massage work. Most of have outside clients anyway, not all of us though.

Thank you for your respectful response with specific information. This is the type of conversation that is useful to massage therapists and future owners (franchise or independent). None of the ME owners I have visited with did research themselves on what MT did, hours worked or what they are paid nationally which I found astounding since this information is readily available from industry associations. You would think that before someone spent hundreds of thousands of dollars they would do their own homework. Then again, the graveyard of franchises is pretty full.

Jes in St. Paul in Saint Paul, Minnesota said: You would think that before someone spent hundreds of thousands of dollars they would do their own homework. Then again, the graveyard of franchises is pretty full.

Jes,

I am also surprised by the real lack of understanding that the Massage Envy people have about this industry. They appear to have jumped in head first into deep water. The word out there is that a lot of these franchises are hurting and that Massage Envy has already peaked. There are also new franchise companies joining the same flawed business model. I believe that they are all destined to destroy each other allowing for good solid businesses to continue to succeed. It won't take long for us to see the outcome.

LMT/CMT in Phoenix, Arizona said: You are a Clinic Administrator for ME? I think everyone should know that piesce of information when reading your post. Anyway, your comment is noted.

As a clinic administrator I have practicals with all of my therapist, so essentially I get massaged frequently. Does that not give me the right to express my opinion about my favorite therapist? In addition, I also review each therapist's creditials as part of the interview process, which explains how I know for a fact that ME doesn't hire a bunch of inexperienced students. Bleh, this forum is fluff. I've seen the numbers and experienced the Massage Envy concept. How is ME any different than any other franchise? How could ME open 250 locations in 3 years if it is failing? FYI within the next 18 months you'll find about 650 ME's open for business, of course in some flawed way. Maybe you don't like ME because you didn't come up with the idea yourself.

BTW Jes, my assistant clinic administrator is a LMT. He gets his 40 hrs a week. Any LMT's that work for me and express interest in admin are cross trained in the front office tasks. You don't have a clue, so quit acting like an expert.

Its a sad world we live in. Why can't employers listen to employees complaints and try to at least compromise. Come up with some kind of common ground. It is everyones selfishness that makes this happen. I thnk heaven i'm a self employed LMT and work at the hospital 72 hrs a week to pay the bills. Get a plan and follow it. Employers dont pick a favorite employee it causes problems especially when you post it where everyone can see it. And at least try to work things out with your employees rather than shrug your shoulders and say its not your problem. And clients understand you will not be treated differently, therapist are here to do a service but they have as much right to vent as anyone else if they are unhappy. If you don't want to hear them complain then stop reading the posts.

Jareef in Dallas, Texas said: As a clinic administrator I have practicals with all of my therapist, so essentially I get massaged frequently. Does that not give me the right to express my opinion about my favorite therapist? In addition, I also review each therapist's creditials as part of the interview process, which explains how I know for a fact that ME doesn't hire a bunch of inexperienced students. Bleh, this forum is fluff. I've seen the numbers and experienced the Massage Envy concept. How is ME any different than any other franchise? How could ME open 250 locations in 3 years if it is failing? FYI within the next 18 months you'll find about 650 ME's open for business, of course in some flawed way. Maybe you don't like ME because you didn't come up with the idea yourself.

BTW Jes, my assistant clinic administrator is a LMT. He gets his 40 hrs a week. Any LMT's that work for me and express interest in admin are cross trained in the front office tasks. You don't have a clue, so quit acting like an expert.

No one said that you dont have the right to express your views or experiences, I just think that people should know that you happen to be in management at ME. Of course you will fight for them, you have a interest in the company. I was a Manager also at ME in Chicago. I have seen the other side of the coin. Maybe at your location its different, but thats the point, there is no consistancy with ME. I have seen the kind of therapists you talk about having, and I have seen therapists that are not very good. ME has trouble in general with keeping experienced therapists because the pay is easily beaten by competitors. When something better comes along, they leave. So far as ME failing, I dont think they are going anywhere soon, but that is because the public wants cheap. If they were paying the same amount of money for a massage at ME as at another spa or clinic, how many customers would ME have? Are the therapists that good? In many cases no.

I have been a massage therapist of 6 years. I got a job at a Massage Envy 14 months ago, and I couldn't be happier. There are flexible hours and I can decide how many massages I want to do. I also like how Massage Envy takes care of everything- booking appointments for me, advertising and drawing in new customers who want to get massage. It is incredibly convenient. Though the pay is not quite as competetive as the pay in other establishments, in other establishments, I do not have the luxury of just being able to walk in, see the appointments that are booked with me and then massage. In the time that I would have to use to advertise and book appointments if I had my own massage therapy clinic, I am able to hold down another day job, so I can supplement my income with massage on nights and weekends. When I first got my license and got out of Massage Therapy School, Massage had a negative image in American society. People thought that the kind of massage I did came with a "happy ending," and didn't seem to understand that massage therapy is a legitimate business. Massage Envy has greatly improved the image of massage therapy in the eyes of the American people, and allows me to now practice in a safe, clean, convenient environment where people aren't looking for something extra. I enjoy working for Massage Envy, and I am sorry that some of you had negative experiences working there.

This is obviously a (former) disgruntled employee. I would take this post for a HUGE grain of salt.

I was a customer (for over a year), and really liked Massage Envy. The place is immaculately clean, the owners were always on site, and I never had a problem nor a complaint with the service.

The setting is similar to an accommodating, upscale Dr's office. I go to a location North of Atlanta. They are the best performing franchisee in the country, or so they told me,which is believable. My experience was always nice. I did go to a location in the city of Atlanta. It was less enjoyable, but not really bad.(somewhat unprofessional and not as clean feel to the place).

99% of the therapists I would visit were either part-time/full-time students attending Chiropractic, Nursing or similar fields. I always tipped $15 per hr session, thus the therapist making $30/hr+ As a student sure beats waiting tables, or delivering pizzas to put yourself through school.

The only negative is the fact that if you find a few good therapists you like to see, it's usually difficulty to schedule an appointment with them due to their popularity. A great catch-22 for the therapist if you ask me.

Finally.
The suggestion that the setting is like a line up at a brothel is ABSURDLY INSANE.. I Never saw a line up or hand picked my therapist. The idea that somehow wearing a uniform is demaning or dimishes their ability to provide a service is plain NUTS. The last time I was in a Dr's office all of the nurses wore, a uniform, of green scrubs. It hardly crossed my mind that I was in a brothel. Frankly, I'd rather see the Khaki's and White Golf Shirt than a tank-top-wife beater on my therapist.

I would suggest that any therapist who complains about only making an "$8 tip", look deep inside themselves and do a through self-analysis to determine if they are in the right profession and their services are up to par....

The Walmart-iz-ation...of the Massage business is the BEST thing that could ever happen for therapists....

Wage reduction INCREASES the bandwidth of salary ranges (rather than decrease). For every Massage Envy location, there will be a high end Spa that offers more exclusive services for a Premium. Whereas before you might have a tighter width of $70-90 “average”....With competition like Massage Envy...you can expand that salary bandwidth from $40-$150+ for the higher end, more exclusive therapists.

Massage Envy introduces the concept of weekly massages to those who otherwise would never get a massage. Thus as those individuals move up the spectrum in more exclusive services.

If you're a therapist and you're threatened by the concept of a place like Massage Envy, well...start another profession.

sittingdoe in Lynnwood, Washington said: Some businesses have you sign "no compete" contracts, some don't. the last job i was at, it was a 3 yr clause after i leave. different jobs have different stipulation. i guess you have to decide if you love the place your going to work, or if you don't. 72.00 a small investment.

NEVER EVER feel threatened by a non-compete clause you have to sign for any employer.

I've signed many of them. (I work in Software Sales). I've spoken to a lawyer on more than one occasion about signing a non-compete. Non-compete clauses seldom, if ever, are enforceable.

They are used to (a) put fear into you..which apparently worked and (b) protect an employer if you MALICIOUSLY pursued fellow coworkers or clients after you left.

If you worked for an employer and those customers make their own choice to follow you to your next employment there is nothing a non-complete clause can do to you.

A non-compete clause has to be so narrowly defined to be enforceable that it's not worth it for the employer to customize the contract. For example, for a non-compete to be enforceable, the employer has to define those employers whom you cannot work for, within a defined set of time after you leave their employment (typically this is a 6-month window AT BEST).,sometimes within a geographic area, and those job functions they feel are “proprietary” information you could use after you leave them (unless you are working for NASA or a cutting edge research area, you have nothing to worry about). Massage therapy is hardly “proprietary knowledge”

If you AGRESSIVELY pursued fellow clients, calling them / recruiting them to your new business, or trashing a former employer to entice that client to come to you, then MAYBE they could enforce it, however even with that

massageorama in Jacksonville, Florida said: I had also considered opening a franchise here in Nashville, TN. The opportunity sounded fantastic - until I interviewed therapists in several states (unbeknownst to ME). ALL felt underpaid, overworked, and in danger of injuring themselves due to lots of massages a day with little time between. Many were just out of school and not seasoned enough to know their physical and mental limits. A massage therapist (self included) will not work in such conditions long, so there will be a lot of turnover. I pay my therapists a minimum of $40/hour + great tips and have their loyalty. We also do benefit events as well - we realize it's important to give back to the community that supports us. ME is providing a great service - many will try massage for the first time due to the great price. They will get great service and a nice massage. I just fear the career life-span of ME's therapists will be short due to burnout or injury.

If you consider what one receives (as a therapist) and what one receives (as a client), I think it's a win win for all.

As a client, I'm offered an upscale/clean, convienent location to get a great massage.

As a therapist, I see it as a safe and easy place to earn a decent living doing what I would assume a therapist would love.

I think it's a great place, for a therapist start-up, new to LMT therapy, to hone their skills and learn about the business side of the business.

Yes, as a client, I can see how one would get burned out rather quick based upon the number of massages you can (and often do) give in a day.
However, as I understand it, you make your own hours.

Just like anything in life, I see it as a nice stepping stone and way to learn the business. You'll get rich in knowledge vs money to prepare you for the next level.

LMT/CMT in Phoenix, Arizona said: You dont get it, its not about your $40. I just dont want thiose students who studied hard and spent alot of money to look at things the way you do, and just resign themselves to the fact that they wont be sucessfull and concentrate more on pricing than they do on healing.

The simple fact is that If you are in the Massage business, and you offer massages over $40 a hour, then Massage Envy is NOT your competition. Massage Envy (and other low pay Massages) IMPROVES the business model and expands the salary bandwidth. It introduces more people to the business than otherwise would have visited.

Before Massage Envy I had two Massages in my life. Yes, I can afford $150/hr massages, but I never saw the value or need for it. The simple fact is that for most Therapists Massage, YOU are your own competition (supplying a value added service that keeps customers coming back and happily paying for a premium service). For those who are unable to offer value added services, the unfortunate Darwinian business model weeds out those who provide sub-par services and try to charge a premium.

I've never purchased a single item in a Walmart. I am not their target customer. I will gladly pay a premium for a product at Target vs. shopping at Walmart.

I can assure you, The C.E.O. of Donna Karen could care less what products Walmart may or may not be selling in their respective competitive territories. Nordstrom's does not loose sleep over what Walmart clothing they may or may not be selling in their city. Same concept if you are a therapist with a Massage Envy in your city.

I was offered a job at Massage Envy for $15/hour. It didn't take me more than 30 seconds of thought to turn them down. I had a bad feeling after the interview and felt it was a HUGE scam for the owners and only the owners to make money.

I waited two more weeks and landed a job that pays me $40/hour plus tips and all of the benefits that Massage Envy offers. There are good jobs out there for good Massage Therapists, it just takes persistence to find them.

latish in Edmonds, Washington said: Medical Professional? Isn't it only 1800 hours or less for licensing, I think Hairdressers serve more time than that. It boggles my mind that LMP's believe they should get 30$ an hour to start. I'm an RN and it took me 20 years of service to reach that wage!! Although I knew full well that I would be expected to do the work of Florence Nightinggale without the compensation. I'm not complaining but all you pampered pooches out there getting your massages, perms and nail tips at exorbitant prices and creating the elitist market will hopefully look around at the age of 80 while your wasting away in a nursing home and wonder where did all the qualified caring people go. No wonder none of today's children want to be teachers or nurses.I wish I could get an 18% gratuity for inserting that suppository just right!

THere has also been a lot of inflation in the time it took you to reach $30. I also have a Bachelor's in Economics so we are talking about apples and apples here. If you were a recent graduate of Nursing school, YOur pay would be considerably higher. I have been researching NUrse pay recently since I am interested in pursuing a medical degree (and yes I am smart enough) and it looks to me as if starting nurses earn anywhere from $50 - 80 K a year. I even had a nurse comfirm to me that hospital nurses are paid very well, and that it is only the regular office nurses that aren't paid as well. So agin let's again at the time frame. I understand that houses used to cost about $2k and today we'd be looking at around $100 K for the same size house.

Kelly in Houston, Texas said: I have a question for massage theripist who work at Massage Envy. I usually tip $15.000 for an hour and a half massage. I base this on 15% I use to pay for my therapist whom I really can't afford, because it is to high for me. Believe me I am not saying he is not worth it, but I can't afford $100.00 for an hour and a half massage with a tip. Is this fair keeping in mind that I am not one of the wealthy clients that gets a massage for enjoyment I am doing it for medical reason.

Thank you,

Kelly

For me a $15 tip for an hour and a half is average.

Autey in Charleston, South Carolina said: I see what you are saying but let me make sure.

I agree with both of you. As I stated earlier I have a bachelor's in econ and Just want to add that when Wal-Mart and Toys 'R Us came into existence, many, many, many small family businesses were forced out of business. I currently know of two owners of health food and supplement stores who are finding it harder to compete with Trader Joes's and Whole Foods because they can not buy their products as cheaply as the big guys can.

Just_Looking in Atlanta, Georgia said: The simple fact is that If you are in the Massage business, and you offer massages over $40 a hour, then Massage Envy is NOT your competition. Massage Envy (and other low pay Massages) IMPROVES the business model and expands the salary bandwidth. It introduces more people to the business than otherwise would have visited.

Before Massage Envy I had two Massages in my life. Yes, I can afford $150/hr massages, but I never saw the value or need for it. The simple fact is that for most Therapists Massage, YOU are your own competition (supplying a value added service that keeps customers coming back and happily paying for a premium service). For those who are unable to offer value added services, the unfortunate Darwinian business model weeds out those who provide sub-par services and try to charge a premium.

I've never purchased a single item in a Walmart. I am not their target customer. I will gladly pay a premium for a product at Target vs. shopping at Walmart.

I can assure you, The C.E.O. of Donna Karen could care less what products Walmart may or may not be selling in their respective competitive territories. Nordstrom's does not loose sleep over what Walmart clothing they may or may not be selling in their city. Same concept if you are a therapist with a Massage Envy in your city.

I love your attitude, and I understand what you are saying. What business are you in if you don't mind my asking?

blue in Collierville, Tennessee said: You all are pretty funny. "Medical Professionals" what BS. And as far as hard work when was the last time you lifted a shovel for 8 straight. Oh...$15 per hour pretty damn good starting wage. That's starting salary for a teacher who has WAY more education than you and far more impact on society. IF you don't like the situation then don't do it. If you want to make a $100k then do a job that's worth a $100k. Go out, shell out $250k and open your own place, staff it with over paid lazy asses and see how long you last. It will be a good lesson in why you should have chosen Network Engineering as a career instead.

Yah,depending on what kind of teacher.
Some of us massage therapist do have a degree w/ far more education...It just depends on how much education you want to get.So,don't try to talk down on us massage therapist.You try massaging for 1 hr or 2hrs straight & tell me if you should get paid more.

Hey blue, you need to go do some research on massage therapist. There arent many that last in business do to injuries. When was the last time somebody lifted a shovel for a career and couldnt go back to work because he/she was lifting a shovel. If any it i promise there are more LMTs on the list than ditch diggers. as far as education goes, LMTs have far more education than you may think. I bet you wouldnt last 3 weeks in a massage class. To tell one of us to choose to be a Engineer is like asking a Engineer to be one of us. Now I will say this, there are some therapist who ask for too much money. I do agree if some of them want to make the money they think they should go start their own biz else where. At my place of employment we could make about 4000 a month and that includes tips but the work is too hard on the body so most make about 2300. If anyone chose to work that hard though they are fools because they would have to quit working soon do to injuries. So with all that said, THE WORK IS HARD. some places do pay crappy but it is a good starting point and you cant start out making all the money.

jeff - Jacksonville in Jacksonville, Florida said: I've been going to M.E for 3 months now. My wife and I both. We've had nothing but a wonderful experince. They must be producing some great students in our area schools. We look forward to our visits. I'm really glad most of you aren't from the Jacksonville area. My wife and I wish you all the best. Just try running your own massage business and try to make a honest living and hire help and pay the rent and the electic. I've been in business for 20 years, and I'm glad my employees don't bash my company like you have.Sure glad I'm a customer not an employee.

As a former manager, it is the job of all employees to make customers feel great. Yet, behind the scenes is different. The owners are only out for the money and don't really care if you ever return since they have you under a contract for the monthly fee. I have run my own business and my clients got the best service ever and I was never stressed to make a sale like the MT's at Massage Envy since they are compensated on their closing percentages. Massage Envy franchises compete with one another to lure customers in. Great for customers, bad for MT's! Stressful for managers...so glad i'm rid of them!

Karmic Retribution in Denver, Colorado said: Here is what I think (As if it matters). I agree with some, and disagree with some. Massage Envy is the great clips of Massage Therapy. They pay their therapist crap, but the therapists also get very much needed Experience, that until they have that, can't get a job anywhere else. Of course the consumer is going to love it, its cheap massage. There will always be the people who will stick to a massage that costs more, because that must mean its better, which is crap. Just because it costs more dosen't mean the therapist is better. I work for a similar company, and we make crap wages, but I got the job right out of school, I've gained soo much knowledge, about myself, about massage, about how I want to run my business now. Don't be bitter because Massage isn't the 100k a year job you expected, be happy that you get to help people who otherwise might not have been able to affoard it, and if you don't like it move on. =-) Have a great day!! =-)

You are exactly the type of therapist Massage Envy hires---inexperienced and desparate for a job. The reason Massage Envy hires inexperienced, just out of school people with little or no skill is because they have not yet tasted the $60+ they can get from a one hour massage. It is really nice to have a novice get the same wage as someone with 5+ or 10+ years of experience, which is what M.E. does. A therapist with some sense of pride, does not stoop to taking a job at Massage Envy. Lucky for the clients who get the experienced ones...management fires those therapists that do not "make the numbers"...good luck!

LMT/CMT in Phoenix, Arizona said: I think some of us are missing the point. I realize that there are other professions that are important to the world that dont pay as they should. Teachers are the most underpaid in this country.... BUT does thst mean that no matter how we try to better ourselves by going to school or getting a degree that we should just take whatever pay is offered just because someone else is underpaid? If thats the case, then no one would bother and we wouldnt have doctors, nurses, police. Lets face it, everyone goes to school to get a better job and better pay. I think that those people SHOULD expect more and that includes teachers.

You touch upon a very important aspect of what ME is doing to the industry of massage. It is bringing it down to be just another low-paying profession. As the corporate monster it is, it's putting the "little guy" out of business by offering cheap massages and paying cheaply. However, if you have never been paid $15/hour, then you might think it's great pay. However, never forget the hard work and knowledge it takes to be a good massage therapist. Teachers are underpaid, that's the county's or city's decision to underpay. ME is a privately owned franchise whereby they all agree to pay MT's a low rate. Rest assured, once an MT finds a better paying job, they are gone. Their management is constantly looking for therapists; customers lose their favorite MT and must change. I know, I ran one of their clinics.

Eva in Flowery Branch, Georgia said: You touch upon a very important aspect of what ME is doing to the industry of massage. It is bringing it down to be just another low-paying profession. As the corporate monster it is, it's putting the "little guy" out of business by offering cheap massages and paying cheaply. However, if you have never been paid $15/hour, then you might think it's great pay. However, never forget the hard work and knowledge it takes to be a good massage therapist. Teachers are underpaid, that's the county's or city's decision to underpay. ME is a privately owned franchise whereby they all agree to pay MT's a low rate. Rest assured, once an MT finds a better paying job, they are gone. Their management is constantly looking for therapists; customers lose their favorite MT and must change. I know, I ran one of their clinics.

Dear Eva,

I'm so glad that you get it! In one of my earlier posts, I talked about the fact that there are no free lunches in life. Massage Envy advertises a free lunch, but it's not free, the therapist is paying for it! In fact, I argue that the therapist in a sense buys lunch for both the client and the owner. The owner sells a cheap massage, some clients (mostly those who have limited or no experience with massage) think it's great. However, the owner knows if he can sell enough memberships, he wins! I argue that the owner is the only potential winner here. The therapist loses because he/she is working for nothing and the client loses because they are not getting the best therapist/service out there. You get what you pay for! It all just stinks in my book! It's a flawed business model based on greed. It's the same dysfunction that Wal-Mart thrives on. Let's call it "E.D." Envy Dysfunction! Viagra can't fix this one!

I have had many a massage all over the world. some great others not so "great"
I had a massage at he local massage envy that was absolutley the worst ever... I spoke to the manager, he set me up with another gal that was terrific, for no charge. The manager and I sat down and spoke with the "crummy/inexperienced" therepist and I explained to her what I thought was very important in a massage in a non-condesending, polite, helpful way. The manager was pleased at my attitutude towards being "helpful". Folks, we're all just people, need a start somewhere. We go back again and again, we just ask for their most experienced person. As an engineer, I started a $4 an hour back in 1981, drafting during my junior year. I learned alot, found a good mentor, and now make a great wage. Therepists can do the same thing. People, if you can help some one out, it's a great feeling. Love up people!! Sounds like a lot of you folks could use a massage!!

That is best comment I have read on here yet

LMT/NMT from Atlanta, I agree with Latisha from Edmonds Washington. Medical Professional? Did you attend college courses such as Anatomy, Physiology, Microbiology, Chemistry..etc. with required laboratory classes?, clinical hospital rotations?, how about earn a degree?, pass your national boards and obtain your state license?. Have you worked in a hospital ICU with critically ill patients?, ever attach a patient who can't breathe on their own to a ventilator and set paramaters such as tidal volumes, frequency, FIO2..etc.?; do you know anything about pressure control?, do you know how to perform EKGs, Arterial blood gases?, have you ever maximally exercised a patient on a treadmill to collect VO2 data?. This is just a part of what we as healthcare professionals do. Even with my 8 years of experience in the medical field I would never compare myself to a physician as you have with no experience in this field.

Cheree in Rochester, Minnesota said: I agree with A Male Therapist. I work in a hospital now and most of the doctors only know what relates to their area of choice. Ask your Gyno about a broken hyoid and they'll be lost. Guarantee it. They are required to learn it for their profession, does no mean they remember it. I heard a doctor tell a guy he broke his zygoma......meaning???? So before you go jumping and laughing thinking you made a fool of someone check the statistics. Most doctors don't remember half of what they learned. But Please Client Have A Nice Day.

The hyoid is found in the throat area, inferior to the mandible in the anterior neck. If I can recall this so can a Physician. With the amount of information they are required to study there is no way anyone can immediately remember. But everything we learn is always stored in our long term memory. When given the opportunity we can recall any stored data. While attending school to be a Respiratory Therapist I was required to study Anatomy, Physiology, Chemistry, Microbiology with Labs, Composition, Speech..etc. along with my required Respiratory Therapy courses and Clinical Hospital Rotations. It is a tremendous amount of information. And it is only a fraction of what physicians have to study. I graduated, earned my Degree, passed my National Board Exams and obtained my State License. I have been working 8 years as a Respiratory Therapist. For the last 7 years I have enjoyed working with excellent, greatly skilled and very knowledgable physicians at Scripps Clinic in La Jolla. I am continually learning from my patients, coworkers and especially our Physicians.

A Male Therapist, What was the name of the actual body part? All Physicians generalize before they specialize which means they are all required to study the entire human body both anatomically and physiologically. They are extremely skilled and knowledgable Healthcare Professionals. I attended college courses such as Anatomy, Physiology, Chemistry, Microbiology with Labs, Composition, Speech...etc. along with my required Respiratory Therapy courses and Clinical Hospital Rotations. It is a tremendous amount of information. And it is only a fraction of what Physicians are required to study. I graduated, earned my Degree, passed my National Board Exams and obtained my State License. Working as a Respiratory Therapsit I Administer aerosolized breathing treatments, IPPB treatments and Oxygen; Assess patient's condition, perform Arterial Blood Gases and EKGs, Spirometry, Diffusion Capacity, Maximal Inspiratory and Expiratory Pressures, Nitrogen Washout and Plethysmography, VO2 Maximal Exercise Treadmill Tests, Altitude ABGs and Oximetry Exercises, Attach critically ill ICU and ER patients who can't breathe on their own to ventilators and set parameters..tidal volumes, frequency, FIO2 and pressure control as necessary...etc. This is just an sample of what we as Healthcare Professionals do. What does your day entail? Even with my 8 years experience in the medical field I would never compare myself with Physicians as you have. For the last 7 years I have enjoyed working with extremely skilled and very knowledgable Physicians at Scripps Clinic in La Jolla. I am continually learning from the high calibre professionals I work with.