Ageism

The recruiters do not submit candidates for positions if they are over the age of 40. My experience is excellent, my qualifications impeccable, I have kept current on computer technology, and I am a licensed CPA. I have Big Four Public Accounting experience, but when I inquire about positions that require this background, I am told my experience isn't recent enough, code for "Too Old". However, I think most recruiters do the same thing. I believe there is such a large percentage of employers using recruiters so the recruiters can screen out candidates over the age of 40 per the employer's instructions, thus practicing age discrimination via recruiters without technically violating EEOC regulations. A note to all of you sneering 20 something recruiters turning your nose up at us plus 40's, aging is inevitable. You too will be in our position someday.

Regardless of RH. Once you hit 40's you are probably making good money and in the middle to upper staffing range. RH has most opportunities in the $20-40 range. Entry to some experience. The best way for an experienced professonal is to network. I am in same boat. Layed off Nov 96 and try RH and was a waste of time. Networking is the only way to increase job leads and comtacts.
Once the babt boomers start to retire (2007 first year) the will be many openings over time. Probably greater in public than private sector. So do not rulw out a career change. You have skills and experience and that is valuable.

I am 55 and you would think that i was 90 the way these people treat you. I still have to work until at less 70, so what's the problem? Am I supposed to live on the street because I am 55?? I have alot of experinence but I also noticed that everyone wants a degree, I have so much more expercience then college grads and could out do them in a heart beat. It's really sad that we have to go through this, after we all worked so hard.

Hey, Jude, I know EXACTLY what you mean. Same age, same problem.

So we're supposed to work until 70 or later, eh? That's what the pundits tell us we have to do in order to retire and eat at the same time. Heck, if it's this much of a challenge now, then I'm afraid there will be a lot of us among the "newly homeless."

I'm ready to jump off a cliff. Seriously.

Good luck to all.

It's ridiculous.

Jude said: I am 55 and you would think that i was 90 the way these people treat you. I still have to work until at less 70, so what's the problem? Am I supposed to live on the street because I am 55?? I have alot of experinence but I also noticed that everyone wants a degree, I have so much more expercience then college grads and could out do them in a heart beat. It's really sad that we have to go through this, after we all worked so hard.

I found myself in the same boat. I am 57, degreed and have many years of experience in my field. I have been downsized twice in the last three years and I can't seam to find a decent job. Most companies do look at me strange when I go in for an interview.
I have sent several resumes to RH applying for current posted positions. Unfortunately,the reply I get is "that position is no longer available." Nevertheless, it is still posted on the internet and it remains there for several more weeks.
I do believe RH, as well as, employers are engaged in age discrimination.

Jude said: I am 55 and you would think that i was 90 the way these people treat you. I still have to work until at less 70, so what's the problem? Am I supposed to live on the street because I am 55?? I have alot of experinence but I also noticed that everyone wants a degree, I have so much more expercience then college grads and could out do them in a heart beat. It's really sad that we have to go through this, after we all worked so hard.

I couldn't agree more with you. I am 50, and have not only a degree, but a double degree in finance and accounting. I am looked like I have 2 heads or something. Maybe they have the 2 heads!

Frustrated said: The recruiters do not submit candidates for positions if they are over the age of 40. My experience is excellent, my qualifications impeccable, I have kept current on computer technology, and I am a licensed CPA. I have Big Four Public Accounting experience, but when I inquire about positions that require this background, I am told my experience isn't recent enough, code for "Too Old". However, I think most recruiters do the same thing. I believe there is such a large percentage of employers using recruiters so the recruiters can screen out candidates over the age of 40 per the employer's instructions, thus practicing age discrimination via recruiters without technically violating EEOC regulations. A note to all of you sneering 20 something recruiters turning your nose up at us plus 40's, aging is inevitable. You too will be in our position someday.[/QU

Jude said: I am 55 and you would think that i was 90 the way these people treat you. I still have to work until at less 70, so what's the problem? Am I supposed to live on the street because I am 55?? I have alot of experinence but I also noticed that everyone wants a degree, I have so much more expercience then college grads and could out do them in a heart beat. It's really sad that we have to go through this, after we all worked so hard.

Guss what? I have an MBA,MA,CPA,CMA and 10 years of accounting and finance experience. After the intial interview, my phone calls were ignored.I believe this Company practices ageism.In my case
40+ and being a minority is just adding insult to injurey....

Frustrated in Saint Louis, Missouri said: The recruiters do not submit candidates for positions if they are over the age of 40. My experience is excellent, my qualifications impeccable, I have kept current on computer technology, and I am a licensed CPA. I have Big Four Public Accounting experience, but when I inquire about positions that require this background, I am told my experience isn't recent enough, code for "Too Old". However, I think most recruiters do the same thing. I believe there is such a large percentage of employers using recruiters so the recruiters can screen out candidates over the age of 40 per the employer's instructions, thus practicing age discrimination via recruiters without technically violating EEOC regulations. A note to all of you sneering 20 something recruiters turning your nose up at us plus 40's, aging is inevitable. You too will be in our position someday.

RH is a total fraud. Their recruiters will lie to you in a flash to get you to send in your resume. I've applied for jobs through RH that had my name written on them, just to be told that I didn't have the required qualifications (I had literally everything they asked for). RH also has a NASTY habit of running ads for jobs that just plain don't exist, or they will tell you that a seasonal job advertised in December as "individual, corporate, and partnership tax, Schedule M experience preferred, ends in April" was a sales tax position. If you will read their ads, they consistantly post a variety so that resumes will continue to flow in; in turn, they use the stack of resumes to convince employers to list jobs with them. In otherwords, they put the cart in front of the horse.

Here's my advice -- if the advertisment is not run by the actual firm with the job, don't bother. Don't deal with recruiters or blind ads. If the job and/or employer was reputable, they would have no problem putting their name on it.

AYMAD HANSON said: Guss what? I have an MBA,MA,CPA,CMA and 10 years of accounting and finance experience. After the intial interview, my phone calls were ignored.I believe this Company practices ageism.In my case
40+ and being a minority is just adding insult to injurey....

From my experience, qualified minorities move to the front of the line with the large firms. I've even work a tax season at E&Y where even unqualified minorities had some pretty darn good jobs becuase minorities in accounting are so hard to come by and E&Y was going ape about increasing their percentages. But I have noticed that the overwhelming issue is age.

No, it's not agism -- it's just plain discrimination. When I graduated at age 40 with a 4.0GPA with a masters in accountancy (taxation), I had trouble even getting interviews. I complained to the university about the matter, and they said "We can't tell employers who to hire." I suggested that if employers so obviously screened out blacks or women, they would be barred from campus. The lady (the University of Kentucky's College of Business' employement advisor) got a funny look on her face, and literally said that age discrimination was OK, that all she cared about was minories and women.

I was interviewed (by a Hispanic female) from Louisville Gas & Electric who informed me that they already had too many "older white males" who wouldn't retire, and it was hurting their efforts to reach "diversity" goals. Needless to say I didn't get that job either.

I may be late to this forum but could not agree more! I am 56, have over 30 years of hard earned experience and knowledge which should be of value to some company out there but can not get even an interview. All those jobs we are all seeing advertised and are sending in resumes for are, for me anyway it seems, "being interviewed for" or "already filled". I must say, its very depressing and frustrating to know how much we have to offer and how little they are settling for. Can't help but hope their respective businesses feel the pain of their poor decision making.

I have some good news on the over 40 job search. i was offered a job last week at an IT company ( not thru Indeed).
This is pretty funny, but I went into the interview and the receptionist looked over 45, ( Im almost 50) the manager looked over 45 and the 2nd manager who interviewed me looked about 58 to 63 or so. But anyway, they all have more than 20 years in the field and are very successful. I was relaxed enough to admit to them that I left off a "few" years on my resume. I filled them in on my experience and they hired me. So after all the struggle, Im going to work in a company where everyone is over 45! Dont give up!

Amy: Thanks for the encouragement and good luck with the new job! I hope the rest of us have the same kind of results soon.

How much did you pay them?

Peggy Schelling said: I may be late to this forum but could not agree more! I am 56, have over 30 years of hard earned experience and knowledge which should be of value to some company out there but can not get even an interview. All those jobs we are all seeing advertised and are sending in resumes for are, for me anyway it seems, "being interviewed for" or "already filled". I must say, its very depressing and frustrating to know how much we have to offer and how little they are settling for. Can't help but hope their respective businesses feel the pain of their poor decision making.

Again, I ask Peggy, how much did you pay them? Do you realize when you apply online that you are competing with about 2000 other people? Or do you think it is just you? I am amazed how people like you think an agency owes you. Why can't you find your own job? If you pay them then yes they owe you. Did you pay them?

Realistic:
I do believe that you are having a bad day! I don't expect to either be the only applicant for all these jobs nor do I expect to get anything for free. As my father taught me, "no one owes me a living". If they want to work with me and assist me they will deserve a fair and equitable payment. Until then, no I have not paid them nor will I until then.

Peggy Schelling said: Realistic:
I do believe that you are having a bad day! I don't expect to either be the only applicant for all these jobs nor do I expect to get anything for free. As my father taught me, "no one owes me a living". If they want to work with me and assist me they will deserve a fair and equitable payment. Until then, no I have not paid them nor will I until then.

Actually I am having a great day!! Thank you for caring. That was a great answer. Wish everyone else felt like you do.

I have faced age discrimination countless times starting about age 40. I was forced to change careers due to a car wreck, caused by someone else's carelessness. I am still working on a degree in accounting. If you think finding a job when you have experience is hard, try it without at age 49. When age discrimination is a factor I always get the same treatment. They look at me, look at my resume, look back at me, back at the resume. Look at me again, cock their head and say "So you went back to school, how nice." Right there I know the interview is over no matter how "well it goes." I'd give anything to go back to my former career.

Another problem:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCbFEgFajGU#qR_g3S40kj4

Olive Oil in Stamford, Connecticut said: Another problem:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCbFEgFajGU#qR_g3S40kj4

Scary, it should be illegal but must not be as they are so blatant. I guess so long as they can find a reason, which anyone can do if they really want to do so.

Do not mention RHI one more time - I will have to sue someone!!! They are a REAL waste of time and yes, they are DIMWITS!!!!

BF Rochester in Canandaigua, New York said: Scary, it should be illegal but must not be as they are so blatant. I guess so long as they can find a reason, which anyone can do if they really want to do so.

They say right in the video "We are doing nothing illegal".

Realistic said: Again, I ask Peggy, how much did you pay them? Do you realize when you apply online that you are competing with about 2000 other people? Or do you think it is just you? I am amazed how people like you think an agency owes you. Why can't you find your own job? If you pay them then yes they owe you. Did you pay them?

finally someone who'se realistic! :D pun intended. the best jobs come through networking, as well as having past employment stability. keep those bridges people - burn them and you may find yourself stuck on an island

its real easyu to point fingers but it doesn't get you anywhere

I understand for older workers it seems a lost cause, but its also true as we get older we become more socially reclusive. You want to get a new job, get out there and meet people - Hell start your own business. you have to think outsidfe the box, not sit in it and whine.

I'm 50, and recently changed jobs.... changed careers actually, I had to change my mindset to do it, I had to be willing to compromise, but I'm triving now, so I know it can be done.

and you said

employment stability seems to be a detriment. HR coneheads seem to like it if a candidate has changed jobs every few years.

so untrue - the best companies, will always prefer to hire people with past job stablility - of course it depends on the field your in, but in general management, executive level positions, office managers and executive admin people will always benefit from past job stability - your fooling yourself to think any different.

My grandaddy taught me this and its still true. that yes its important to smart and know your job well, but never forget that a success lies in your relationships - so basically in the end its who you know - network, get out there and make friends - generally you won't be unemployed long.

I also think people have unrealistic expectation about pay. We have a lot in this country, and we all want more more more - its great to want to succeed. still I've seen perfectly qualified people price themselves right out of the market.
they have so over extended themselves financially they turn down reasonable salaries for thier qualifications because they THINK they deserve more money. Well when there are people more qualified in the marketplace you may have to tighten your belt a bit, maybe that swimming pool, or new SUV will have to wait.

I'm not saying people don't struggle, I understand the older I get the more of a lialibility i become to a company - my insurance is more expensive, the potential for me to leave the company over illness increases, but I'm also more likely to stay with thier company until retirement. I think as we age we have to be realistic.
I mean OK we can call it ageism, I'm just saying in the end complaining about it isn't getting the bills paid.

AYMAD HANSON said: Guss what? I have an MBA,MA,CPA,CMA and 10 years of accounting and finance experience. After the intial interview, my phone calls were ignored.I believe this Company practices ageism.In my case
40+ and being a minority is just adding insult to injurey....

So, you have an MBA, MA, CPA, CMA and 10 years accounting experience? Well, your dilemma is your lack of education. I suggest you go back to school for your PhD, M.D., and I suggest a Masters in Engineering as well. When you get through there, you should be able to retire and not worry about getting a job.

Robert Taylor in Ballentine, South Carolina said: From my experience, qualified minorities move to the front of the line with the large firms. I've even work a tax season at E&Y where even unqualified minorities had some pretty darn good jobs becuase minorities in accounting are so hard to come by and E&Y was going ape about increasing their percentages. But I have noticed that the overwhelming issue is age.

No, it's not agism -- it's just plain discrimination. When I graduated at age 40 with a 4.0GPA with a masters in accountancy (taxation), I had trouble even getting interviews. I complained to the university about the matter, and they said "We can't tell employers who to hire." I suggested that if employers so obviously screened out blacks or women, they would be barred from campus. The lady (the University of Kentucky's College of Business'

employement advisor) got a funny look on her face, and literally said that age discrimination was OK, that all she cared about was minories and women.

I was interviewed (by a Hispanic female) from Louisville Gas & Electric who informed me that they already had too many "older white males" who wouldn't retire, and it was hurting their efforts to reach "diversity" goals. Needless to say I didn't get that job either.

Well, once you get 50 you become a diversity candidate if that helps..... I'm there now.

Age discrimination is against the law people! You need to document everything and take all of your notes to a Labor/Employment lawyer and find out what your rights are! Companies have been sued for age bias! You have a right to work in this country for any employer as a US Citizen! Free Consultation is offered! Check your local listings! Remember right down names and don't miss anything out!

I'm 44 and having a hard time getting work, I know what you're going through. They want younger people straight out of college so they can pay them less! Degree vs. Years of experience = degree and no work experience and less pay. That's the way of the world today. Hell, here in Arizona they want degrees for horrible pay. It's unreal.

Wow, thank you legal professional. I appreciate your comments. They're very resourceful. I just wonder why "right to work" drives down wages? I guess I'm not too familiar with the political aspect of that. It's always nice to hear from someone with great intelligence.

Thanks for the well wishes. I'm sure I can negotiate something here and make it worth my stay. I'm optimistic.

Best Regards!
Chris

Displaced Legal Professional in Denver, Colorado said: I second your comments. However, employers argue, successfully, they have a right to hire whom they want. That is true - but up to a point.

The ADEA may bar employers from practicing age discrimination, but you have the burden of proof and it a huge burden. Employers need only say they liked other candidates better. You can take your complaint to the EEOC, but I have read that it sides with employers ninety percent of the time.

Of course, you have another burden to deal with in Arizona, Chris: right to work. Right-to-work drives down wages.

Best of luck with your efforts.

Your exactly right it sounds good in theory. The employer almost always wins.

Thanks, this makes perfect sense. I guess there's good and bad in most things. People just have to remain optimistic.

No ID in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania said: Regardless of RH. Once you hit 40's you are probably making good money and in the middle to upper staffing range. RH has most opportunities in the $20-40 range. Entry to some experience. The best way for an experienced professonal is to network. I am in same boat. Layed off Nov 96 and try RH and was a waste of time. Networking is the only way to increase job leads and comtacts.
Once the babt boomers start to retire (2007 first year) the will be many openings over time. Probably greater in public than private sector. So do not rulw out a career change. You have skills and experience and that is valuable.

Great post! I am nearing 40, and I have several friends in the Logistics sector that cannot find the money that they are use to. Why pay someone 40 or 50k when they can get a fresh college grad to train and pay 30k.

As for other posts on degrees, if you are 55, and plan to work until 70, what is a couple of years in school? If I see a resume that has experience AND a degree, I don't care if you are 68, I am going to present you and harass the hiring manager until they hire you!

Heck, I am 35 and was snubbed by kids at a public accounting firm. I am a very personable guy and could not believe people could be so dismissive.

The weather is good, at least. I was an airline employee with eight years of seniority when I embarked on this new accounting career. After 9/11, I thought that my airline, which is a major player in your area, was going to tank, as it was in Chapter 11 at the time. Everyone told me that accounting was a recession-proof career. I am searching for work, but my airline is still flying. You may have seen their huge terminal at DIA. Good luck to you, too.

Thanks for the tip. I can sit for the CPA exam, which is what I will be doing in the next few months as I continue to witness the firms' lack of interest. Yes, we must be talking about the same airline. It "owns" DIA, as they like to say. Their pilot training center is near there as well. I am thinking about getting a lawyer to try and get my job back. This strategy has worked for a couple of people. You never know. I know that corporate America is not as friendly as I expected it to be. Perhaps I should have stayed where I was.

I have been a recruiter and know first hand that age discrimination exists. Clients use all kinds of code words to tell recruiters why they do not want to pursue an individual's credentials. They use phrases like, "does not have the energy level I am looking for" or "over-qualified for the position" or he/she was "low-impact" or simply the candidate was "not a good fit". A client will ask, "what year did he/she graduate from high school?", a dead giveaway that age is an issue. Recently, there has been talk about raising the age to be eligible for SS to be 70 - HOW?
Unemployed and over 50 is a real problem.

It is time to expose this practice and let people know what is going on, if you are over 50 and unable to get a job, please send me your resume, your age, how long you have been in the job market, how many resumes you have submitted and how many interviews you have gone on. This will be part of an anecdotal look at the problem so that we can expose the reality of ageism. Please contact me at alysefox@gmail.com.

Displaced Legal Professional in Denver, Colorado said: Good plan. Asking candidates about school graduation dates are clearly illegal questions aimed at probing age. Overqualified is more secret code that gives away age discrimination. However, as an ex- recruiter you know that all an employer has to say is it liked other candidates better. That way it gets away with age discrimination and, for that matter, other forms of discrimination. As an ex-recruiter you are also aware, or should be aware, that employers assume that older candidates will want more money because they are older, whether or not they have experience the comports with their age.

Here again, it's high time the President and Congress do the right thing about age discrimination. Neither is doing anything, which is stupid in the face of a recession. They need only enforce existing laws. They won't enforce these law because they are beholden to business special interests.

I appreciate the response, it is important to bring this to light, it doesn't make any sense that people are asked to work 30 to 40 years but are unemployable after 50.

From a practical standpoint, this impacts our economy negatively, by the time you are 50 it is likely that you are in the midst of mortgage payments or have a couple of kids in college. This is the time when you are supposed to be paying down your debt and saving in anticipation of retirement. Then the rug is pulled out under you and you have mounting debt but decreasing earning potential. This the not the American dream we believed in as children.

If you know anyone who would be interested in participating in our research study, please let me know, this is an issue that will effect EVERYONE sooner or later.

I will take a look at the book thank you. The issue is not that employers will suddenly stop, it is more so that just like with racial discrimination, age discrimination will be acknowledged as a real problem. A problem that we understand is everyone's problem, not just the person over 50. I would also think that understanding that the problem exists might prompt some younger workers to make some different decisions when they consider their "career". I am a strong advocate of being debt free before 40 and entrepreneurism after 50 - no easy task I know but in light of the reality of the job market today worth some serious consideration.

Frustrated in Saint Louis, Missouri said: The recruiters do not submit candidates for positions if they are over the age of 40. My experience is excellent, my qualifications impeccable, I have kept current on computer technology, and I am a licensed CPA. I have Big Four Public Accounting experience, but when I inquire about positions that require this background, I am told my experience isn't recent enough, code for "Too Old". However, I think most recruiters do the same thing. I believe there is such a large percentage of employers using recruiters so the recruiters can screen out candidates over the age of 40 per the employer's instructions, thus practicing age discrimination via recruiters without technically violating EEOC regulations. A note to all of you sneering 20 something recruiters turning your nose up at us plus 40's, aging is inevitable. You too will be in our position someday.

you are absolutely correct,,,,,I know they follow this practice because as a recruiter they have all but told me to do this and they are not alone most major corporations do the same,,,,,,,,,I think the bite back is when they try to do business with firms that basically say--as part of the deal you have to have people in your workforce working on my job that look like me.

Jude in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania said: I am 55 and you would think that i was 90 the way these people treat you. I still have to work until at less 70, so what's the problem? Am I supposed to live on the street because I am 55?? I have alot of experinence but I also noticed that everyone wants a degree, I have so much more expercience then college grads and could out do them in a heart beat. It's really sad that we have to go through this, after we all worked so hard.

I agree with you about age. I was hired in KY from a Fl position with great pay. I uprooted everything only be be let go after 10 months. I believe it was a personal thing, but at age 59 it's hard to find a job with the economy as it is. Wish all us over 40's good luck.

AYMAD HANSON said: Guss what? I have an MBA,MA,CPA,CMA and 10 years of accounting and finance experience. After the intial interview, my phone calls were ignored.I believe this Company practices ageism.In my case
40+ and being a minority is just adding insult to injurey....

I also have an MBA and over 15 years of experience in my field. I am currently 60 years old and I have to work until I am at least 66.
I was presented to a company two weeks ago and I was told the company decided to pass on me because they wanted someone with more recent experience. That job had my name on it.
Robert Half has also given me the run around. I have been to all of their offices in the Chicago land area. I was called for one temp position through them two years ago.
I have been downsized twice since 2003 and I have not found a full-time permanent job yet.
There are some companies posting jobs on the Internet. However, they are "few and far in between". Most jobs are posted by recruiters and they are not looking for any of us who are over 40 years old.

Hello all,

I am an older student, returning to college to switch careers. I'm in my early forties and am pursuing a degree in accounting, and plan to go on to obtain the CPA license. My goal is to work in auditing. I have heard a lot from people in the industry regarding my age, and that it might actually be very difficult to find employment in this field. That being said, I am working on a paper focused on age discrimination by industry, specifically accounting an how it compares to the rest of the nation. I have a survey available on survey monkey (anonymous of course). I would appreciate participation from anyone currently 40+ in accounting and finance (the link is below. My goal is to receive 100 responses for analysis. Thank you!

www.surveymonkey.com/s/T76KYFQ