Very important post - Robert Half & Age Discrimination

LeagleBeagle in Houston, Texas

I am a former Robert Half manager too. They can't keep people in the seats past lunch. They are clueless in the legal staffing industry and think their accounttemps/officeteam model of 125 calls and 12 visits solves everything. It's all about gross margin profit and NEVER about the candidate. They practice age discrimination with a secret coding system called AIP -- Attitude, Intellect and Placeability. High is 1 low is 5. Passed out a sheet in a training seminar saying to grade someone as a "4" who was a "matured worker." A clue--job orders are 3 numbers and a dash like 111- if the next number is a "9" it is a fake job order.

I have an interview on friday and the job number is 021-94------ any suggestions on what to do???

I just signed on to this blog thing! Robert Half Legal is nothing but, well never mind. After 25 years in the legal field and 22-1/2 years with one firm, and after applying on line to these people for 3-1/2 months, I finally called only to find an obnoxious person on the other line saying that because I was only at my previous job for 5 months, that they couldn't help me, but they would..... pass my resume onto their Temporary Division. What a bunch of crock! 3/4ths of the jobs here in chicago are through Robert Half, and because my last job didn't agree with me, I've been outcasted. Screw that agency!

I also came accross this blog when looking for employment as a paralegal. I too was snubbed by Robert Half, who by the way, placed me in my last job 5 years ago. I was laid off a year and a half ago and was told that because I was out of the job market for that period of time I was not marketable to what they called "important large clients". I have worked in high profile law offices for 12 years. Funny thing, I applied to a permanent position online through them and was called by the temporary division. When I stated I wanted permanent employment I was snubbed. I have a hunch most of what is advertised is fake (note they always give a high salary range) and just a way to rope people in to work temp or contract. I am disgusted with placement agencies and those that work for them are glorified car salesmen. They are interested in selling any position to collect a commission. I will find a job on my own through direct hire.

It is truly unfortunate how bitter you all are towards the largest and most reputable speciaized staffing firm in the world. How can you argue with $4 billion dollars in revenue in a service industry? If RHI was as unethical as you all describe, it is virtually impossible to grow at the rate that RHI is growing.

What difference does it make that their revenue is $4 billion (if that is even true)? Look how much money Exxon Mobile made last year. Does that mean that they are a good company? That they care about the environment? No, it just means that there are lots of stupid people out there who will do business with a company, no matter how unethical they are.

Anonymous said: It is truly unfortunate how bitter you all are towards the largest and most reputable speciaized staffing firm in the world. How can you argue with $4 billion dollars in revenue in a service industry? If RHI was as unethical as you all describe, it is virtually impossible to grow at the rate that RHI is growing.

You are clueless. I am a new graduate of a paralegal studies program. Have a Business undergraduate degree and an MBA. Have years of business experience in large corporate. Solid work history and plenty of high level references. RHI has kicked me to the curb because they do not understand how to market me. I am more experienced than the newbie I interviewed with there. RHI hires people in recruitment positions that they can pay very little salary too and who can produce by placing younger people who cost the law firm much less. It's a numbers game, that's how they make the high profit margin.

None in Ashaway, Rhode Island said: LeagleBeagle in Houston, Texas

I am a former Robert Half manager too. They can't keep people in the seats past lunch. They are clueless in the legal staffing industry and think their accounttemps/officeteam model of 125 calls and 12 visits solves everything. It's all about gross margin profit and NEVER about the candidate. They practice age discrimination with a secret coding system called AIP -- Attitude, Intellect and Placeability. High is 1 low is 5. Passed out a sheet in a training seminar saying to grade someone as a "4" who was a "matured worker." A clue--job orders are 3 numbers and a dash like 111- if the next number is a "9" it is a fake job order.

I am not a bit surprised to here all of this. I am a very experienced litigation paralegal. I would see postings from Robert Half for all of these "litigation paralegal" jobs, but they NEVER called me. I got to the point that if there was a job posted from Robert Half I just ignored it. I was told that I had to re-apply for each job listed. Soon, it became obvious that the jobs were fake. I think it is sad to take advantage of vurnerable people who are looking for work. No one has time to waste, especially if they are working and looking at the same time. I think this is very sad. I do not trust Robert Half at all.

To the "Displaced Legal Professional in Denver, Colorado":I am a recruiter, and want to present the flip side to all you folks. I think that a lot of the folks posting to this forum are having a tough time finding legal work, which is unfortunate. I also think some of you are blaming all of your troubles on recruiters and HR folks at law firms, which is ridiculous. Let me simplify things for you. (1)Recruiters have to provide their clients with what their clients ask for. That is the way business is done-fill a customer's need, make money selling. It's pretty simple. Recruiters like Robert Half Legal earn business by finding their clients legal professionals with SPECIFIC SKILLSETS which their CLIENTS have requested. A lot of firms and companies know exactly what they want to see on a resume, and if they don't see it, they aren't interested. 9 times out of 10, recruiters don't get to sell candidates based on their great personality or potential or ability to learn quickl. That's the market these days-most firms are staffed so lean that there's no one there to teach a new person, who just has to hit the ground running. (2) It is REALLY TOUGH to get started in a career in the legal field, especially in cities where there's a glut of more qualified, educated and EXPERIENCED people than you. Experience counts for a lot, and it's a catch-22 which is unfortunate. That isn't a recruiter's fault.(3) Recruiters are not miracle workers. We can't make sow's ears into silk purses. I don't discriminate on age but I sure as hell won't call you if you have a crappy attitude problem or act like the world is all against you. Why would I go out on a limb trying to sell you to a client I value if you act like a primadonna? I want to provide great folks to my clients, not dorks. (4) Recruiter's aren't the only path to jobs. If you are such a catch, why are you still out of work? Unemployment's lower than ever. Maybe recruiters aren't the only ones who aren't impressed by you? Hmmm.

Actually, several headhunters have contacted me in response to my job board resumes. I refuse to deal with them.

It's amazing how you can determine a person's attitude strictly by cover letter and resume.

Headhunters/recruiters contact a lot of people for an initial conversation, whether it be over the phone or to set up an in person meeting. That's part of their job - to check out monster and careerbuilder resume postings and meet those folks. Before I was a recruiter, I always felt really special when a recruiter called me. Now I know they are just doing their job; it's not like they went and selected just me out of millions. Chances are they selected me AND millions. (-: You can refuse to deal with them, but that's shutting down a potential avenue to a job, to your detriment. You might not love them, but they can help you find a job for free. So, I guess it comes down to: what is most beneficial to you - working with them or not working with them? I'm sure there are many factors that go into that decision.

I just got a job at a firm that Robert Half refused to send me in on a temp assignment.

I've also had interviews at firms where RH said they were sending my resume and never did. I've been told by employers that the pool of people being sent by RH is getting worse and worse.

The recruiters I worked with at RH were nice, but all of a sudden the calls stopped. I got calls from firms wanting me to come back but were unsure if I was still working through RH and wanting to know if there was another agency I was dealing with that they could call.

I don't know what's up with RH, but I'm glad I'm back at work.

Yes, I applied directly to the firm. As I mentioned in my previous post, RH had a temp assignment at that firm but wouldn't send me in as a temp. I was very happy when I saw an ad directly from the firm itself.

I've also had a lot of interviews directly with firms where RH said they were sending my resume but didn't.

It seems to be a really tight market right now. Don't know if that has anything to do with RH's problems.

Anonymous in Huntington Beach, California said: It is truly unfortunate how bitter you all are towards the largest and most reputable speciaized staffing firm in the world. How can you argue with $4 billion dollars in revenue in a service industry? If RHI was as unethical as you all describe, it is virtually impossible to grow at the rate that RHI is growing.

Numbers, Baby. Don't be naive!

As a first-time victim of Robert Half, I fell in love with the company for their kindness and their ability to find such "high-paying" jobs. After I was called for an interview, I took a test on the computer which "measured" my skills. The recruiter called me into the office after the test and started pointing out my errors on the test (3 mistakes from 100 questions). I felt like I was being criticized for no reason, as she was doing the whole "Hmm, you don't know this, that's really bad. Our clients wouldn't be very satisfied blah blah." Nothing happened after that, no job, - just phone calls saying "please come for more interviews." Anyway, I was extremely disappointed. The fact that RB posts so many jobs everywhere with ridiculously HIGH salary, doesn't give me the right vibes, somehow. Now that i Googled "robert half sucks", I can see how my opinions are true about the firm.

P.S. FYI, Monster sells everyone's information to thousands of companies - the kind that spam you 24/7. CRAIGSLIST RULES!

Please, please stay away from Robert Half Legal; My experience with them has been a complete waste of my time; I wish I had seen this forum prior to my job search; at first, I thought it was just a single recruiter at Robert Half, but, it's not; My experience has been very bad, in my opinion, the company and it's employees are NOT honest, fair and straightforward. A complete waste of your precious time and energy. Stay away, especially if you are older, the real paralegal jobs are not with Robert Half. All they want is Quick and Easy Temps. Use job listings marketed by actual firms and in-house legal departments. It's a waste to search Monster, etc and have to weed through all their R. Half so-called "listings". Don't bother. Another tip, any time off is seen as suspect; even if you have worked your whole life, taking a breather, traveling, taking care of family or whatever is seen as suspect; blend it in somehow and do not disclose it. Honesty doesn't pay, you will not be treated honestly in return. And your age really works against you if you are over 40, good luck, you will need it; I've been told, face to face by a partner, that the group was "very young" - code for I am too old. Best of Luck in this legal market, firms are not the same as they were in Silicon Valley prior to 2001 and never will be.

Experienced Corporate Paralegal in San J in San Jose, California said:

Another tip, any time off is seen as suspect; even if you have worked your whole life, taking a breather, traveling, taking care of family or whatever is seen as suspect; .....
And your age really works against you

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I agree. I took six years and worked with an agency to accommodate my son's school schedule. I don't think they were crazy about that. I will never use Robert Half Legal again and I think that quite a few HR people feel that way about them as well.

Another good source to check for job listings is

www.265lawrecruit.com

Displaced Legal Professional in Denver, Colorado said: Deborah, do you mean www.365lawcrecruit.com? www.265lawrecruit.com didn't work for me, but www.365lawrecruit.com did.

_________________________________________

Yes, (oops!!!) I'm doing 3 things at once here.

Another good site is www.ihirelegal.com

You can also do a free resume blast with them

why do recruiters want to interview you? Some seem to insist in this first stage before even looking for a job for you. I suspect, that this could be a wonderful way to discriminate for their client. They discover things like age, height, race, and whether or not the person is handicapped. Although they might not be swayed by this information there could be some subconscious link working against you (like of course, good looking people always get the job first). Do I sound paranoid? No, just suspicious. I'm currently looking for a new position and have discovered that if you even mention a pre-interview screening by the headhunter might be deemed discriminatory you suddenly hear nothing more from this headhunter. Strange? Or do they know this practice is not right.

They really should change their name to Robert Half-Ass Legal.

I had a interview scheduled for a real estate attorney position. When I arrived, I was interviewed by the Temp-Contract rep, and filled out papers only for temp/contract positions. I told them I had an interview for a permanent position. After some goofy looks, I finally met with a permanment rep, who spent the entire interview telling me how un-employable I was. 28 years in real estate law and age 53. You figure it out. To date (after 10 months) I have not even heard back from them.

Don't waste your time. Look elsewhere.

Dennis supports what I was saying earlier. Doesn't a resume and references count for anything? Yet they want to see you, and try to ascertain your abilities? They are half my age and have no experience, exactly how can they judge?
Agreed, my comments were stupid (and I'm not really that concerned since I am working and have many other headhunters who don't ask me to interview with them first). I am also to o busy to interview with everyone. There are a lot of hunters calling me. Oh well.

Anonymous in Huntington Beach, California said: It is truly unfortunate how bitter you all are towards the largest and most reputable speciaized staffing firm in the world. How can you argue with $4 billion dollars in revenue in a service industry? If RHI was as unethical as you all describe, it is virtually impossible to grow at the rate that RHI is growing.

Just because the earn a lot of money does not prove they are ethical, act with integrity or will be here next year. Remember Enron...they made a lot of money too.

There's the truth. RH is really getting a bad rep, not just in their legal division, but other sections as well.

I question the "most reputable" part. Lots of people, including people in law firms that are responsible for hiring, don't think very highly of them at all.

I had some temp assignments through them where the firms were looking for permanent people, but were not willing to pay the fee. Now that's usually true with small and mid-size firms.

It was just a source of concern to me when I got interviews (on my own) at some very large firms who said that RH was one of the agencies they wouldn't do business with.

Thank You Very, Very Much, azcaclark in Mesa for your comment ! Yes, and R. Half does not earn all their money in the legal recruiting portion of the corporation. One can review R. Half's SEC filings for more details on how they earn revenue. See, www.sec.gov, search for RHI or just Robert Half. Retrieve online, their latest 10-K, 8'Ks. And See the Forms 3, 4 and 5 to see who in the company is selling their stock. It's all written in plain English and very telling. Any company buying back their own stock, in my opinion, is in serious financial difficulty. This is done to artifically keep up the stock price.
I'm not bitter, just realistic, as are other posters in this forum, I do not like my time wasted. I do not like being lied to. I do not like being treated rudely. In my opinion and from my experience, Robert Half is an awful, awful legal recruiting firm. The worst.... It's a waste of your time and energy and may damage your chances w/ certain firms/corporation as follows,
You may also destroy your chances with a law firm and/or corporation if your resume was forwarded to them by R. Half and then you wish to pursue those firms and/or corporations on your own later. An "agreement" to not interview you may exist, if the agency has within, a year, I believe, already sent your resume to them.
Search for work directly with the firm and/or corporations only. Best of Luck. Good jobs are available. We are highly skilled professionals and do not need a so-called recruiting agency, charging a hefty percentage of your salary for their fee.... Please do not use them. Best Regards to you from A corporate Paralegal in California w/ over 10 yrs experience and several months wasted with R. Half.

As a former employee of Robert Half, i can tell you that it is all image. They want to project professionalism and maturity but when you dig below the surface it is all bottom line for them. Most of their listings are fake. They do what is called "shell" job adds and that's to fill the ranks of their "inventory". Yes that's really how they look at job seekers. I worked at one of their branches in Portland for 2.5 years before I decided I had enough of the BS and wanted somewhere closer to home. The day AFTER I let my boss know that I wanted to find someplace closer to home and had begun my search all these complaints started surfacing about me, when I asked for back up documentation they could provide me with none. Suspicious. The day I had my interview for my current position they fired me. I’m able to laugh at the irony that a temp agency got it’s panties in a bunch over one of their employee’s looking for work elsewhere but I can’t say it wasn’t frustrating while it was going on.

They do use the AIP as was stated before. I have flat out seen them refuse to interview people based on sexual orientation, age, and appearance. Their word track is always something along the lines of “I don’t think we would be the best resource for you” or “I don’t believe we have anything that would be the right fit”. They are always very careful to disguise their true meaning.

Now on the other side, I did meet some very sincere people there who were honest and open about their desire to help people find jobs and make the right connections but they did not last very long at RHI. The turn over rate there is extremely high because it is nothing more than a sales/numbers game. The bottom line, if you can stay away from RHI do so.

Dear X-Halfer in Portland, Thank you very much for your post about working at Robert Half! It verifies, yet again, the posts here. R. Half may try vainly to project professionalism. But, as a Candidate, as one of their "Inventory" -- it's apparent that their "professionalism" is just a faint and false image. But, sadly, time and energy is wasted and your resume may have traveled around needlessly.

Very disturbing: Age discrimination is illegal; I have suspected this at R. Half, it's couched in other terms; ie, you are "not a good fit"; and sexual orientation should play no part in a job search either. This is truly disturbing and illegal.

Additionally, I suspected their numerous posts on Monster, Yahoo and CareerBuilder were sham jobs. A complete waste of time to reply to same. Thank you again in Portland for this post. And fellow professionals in the legal arena, stay away from R. Half.

I'd love to hear some positive experiences that someone has had working with RHL? Do they not exist?

Legal Recruiter in Denver, Colorado said: To the "Displaced Legal Professional in Denver, Colorado":I am a recruiter, and want to present the flip side to all you folks. I think that a lot of the folks posting to this forum are having a tough time finding legal work, which is unfortunate. I also think some of you are blaming all of your troubles on recruiters and HR folks at law firms, which is ridiculous. Let me simplify things for you. (1)Recruiters have to provide their clients with what their clients ask for. That is the way business is done-fill a customer's need, make money selling. It's pretty simple. Recruiters like Robert Half Legal earn business by finding their clients legal professionals with SPECIFIC SKILLSETS which their CLIENTS have requested. A lot of firms and companies know exactly what they want to see on a resume, and if they don't see it, they aren't interested. 9 times out of 10, recruiters don't get to sell candidates based on their great personality or potential or ability to learn quickl. That's the market these days-most firms are staffed so lean that there's no one there to teach a new person, who just has to hit the ground running. (2) It is REALLY TOUGH to get started in a career in the legal field, especially in cities where there's a glut of more qualified, educated and EXPERIENCED people than you. Experience counts for a lot, and it's a catch-22 which is unfortunate. That isn't a recruiter's fault.(3) Recruiters are not miracle workers. We can't make sow's ears into silk purses. I don't discriminate on age but I sure as hell won't call you if you have a crappy attitude problem or act like the world is all against you. Why would I go out on a limb trying to sell you to a client I value if you act like a primadonna? I want to provide great folks to my clients, not dorks. (4) Recruiter's aren't the only path to jobs. If you are such a catch, why are you still out of work? Unemployment's lower than ever. Maybe recruiters aren't th

RHL in Houston is going down. They can't seem to keep good help and don't want to work with the help they have. I wouldn't be surprised if their Houston office (Legal) closes their doors for good. Clients like to know who they're giving their business to and with the turnover rate at RHL, the poor clients can't keep up. KARMA KARMA KARMA - gets you ever time!

Anonymous in Huntington Beach, California said: It is truly unfortunate how bitter you all are towards the largest and most reputable speciaized staffing firm in the world. How can you argue with $4 billion dollars in revenue in a service industry? If RHI was as unethical as you all describe, it is virtually impossible to grow at the rate that RHI is growing.

The proof that I have of a dishonest place of business, is a job advertised by Robert Half/Account Temps for a $12.00 per hour. I was paid $10.00 per hour, when hired for that job. Salary discrepancies are just the beginning!!! Do you really think that all companies that make large sums of money are honest? People like you are very easily snowed and that's why this country is in such trouble.

After reading the above comments, I now know that I am not along. It is so disheartening to know that you have the qualifications, skills, experience, etc. to do the job but you are not given the chance because of your age and sometimes your race. I have over 20 years in the business, look no where near my age, healthy and am certified as paralegal yet I cannot even get a nod from RHI for a secretarial or typist position. I wish that I had found this blog earlier than I would not have wasted my time with an agency that has absolutely no intentions of using me as a valued employee.

... who wants an old mercedes when you can get a brand new one for cheaper.

With age comes wisdom, experience, and usually class.
Many professional workers who are in their 40's and 50's know this.
Most in their 30's are still honing their skills (since being out of college only five years). In a professional environment (legal, high corporate), an older worker is her boss's right hand - and not a minion.

Nomorerhi: Your comments will bite you in the butt many times over.

nomorerhi in chicago, Illinois said: Companies will go out and find a young doe with 3 to 5 years who is not set in their ways.

They made the game.

___________________________________________________________________

Regardless of age, companies are still looking for people who have some brain power; doesn't sound like you have an ounce the sense of a watermelon.

Reply to jedonkey in USA, Pennsylvania"
Good Grief, these bitter comments are another great reason to stay away, far away from recruiters who "help" you find a job, no matter what age or experience is. Stay far, far, far away. Total waste of time.

I am a very experienced litigation paralegal. I went to ask the assistance of Robert Half and all I got is unexperienced lawyer who is moonlighting at Robert Half office. I will make necessary phone calls in relation to my job search and she never calls me back. Then I called the office to report my experience with this attorney, unfortunately, no one was available to get my report. I think this is very sad. I do not trust Robert Half at all!

After seeing the truth from the inside, now that I am in the position to hire for my company, I will steer clear of Robert Half!

Everything that everyone says about Robert Half practicing age discrimination in Denver is true. I have over 20 years of experience as a litigation paralegal at only 2 jobs. I interviewed with Mala at RH, took the tests that RH administered (testing in the 98% range) only to be told by Mala in an e-mail that I did not have the skills law firms were looking for -- translation "you are too old (at 61) for us to bother with. I have told several other agencies in Denver what was told to my by another agency (always being careful not to mention it was RH) and 100% of the recruiters have said w/o skipping a beat "I bet it was RH who told you that".

Recruiters are nothing more than people who couldnt make in the workforce. Where do you think most of the unemployed people find jobs these days? Answer: Sales. Why? Because companies know that you pay them peanuts as a wage and then offer "big" compensation when they bring in revenue.

Dont forget. Recruiters are nothing more than sales people. What they are trying to do is find the easiest sell to their clients. So, while they cannot officially say that they do not discriminate. Officially, they do. They know what their clients are looking for ( age/salary/sex...) Skills? Schmills. Some clients just want a piece of meat that they mold. Old"er" people. Not so much. They dont want their baggage. You could have one of the greatest resumes around. When you are over 40..the offers slow down. Over 50, they come to a grinding halt. 60? Forget about it, unless you consider greeters at Walmart a "job"

I find recruiters to be like used car salespeople. They are supposed to be marketing you to their clients, but I'd say only 2% actually do that. You can bet that your resume is in the shredder if they dont feel they can move you quickly. When your pay depends on moving meat, you only spend time on the meats that you know will sell.

I am 57. I recently interviewed with Office Team/Robert Half. It was actually a good interview, but the whole thing went sour very quickly. A few weeks after my initial contact, the recruiter informed me that Office Team was sorry but they could not represent me. She would give me no reason for their decision. They did not bother to contact me with this information for a few weeks, and she told me only after I emailed to say hello and let her know I was still looking for work.
This is the first time an agency has refused to employ me for no stated reason. Volt told me that they would not hire me because I had been “fired” once, even after I explained to them that I was awarded unemployment benefits after it was proved I was wrongfully dismissed.
I was not familiar with the AIP thing, as I generally experienced age discrimination under the guise of "Over Qualified" and I would let it go at that. Thanks for letting me know about this AIP rating. It makes perfect sense, as there are so many people out of work now that this allows them to pick and chose as they like with no regards for your abilities or experience. I have worked in the legal field for over 35 years, but apparently I am too old now to continue in the legal arena.
Do you think I should file a complaint with the EEOC here is Seattle? Would it do any good?