finding a job?

Why are all these "staffing" services still in business? I am signed up to work for 4 different places and haven't worked a day yet! And it's impossible to actually get thru a door and drop off a resume at any company's any more. And all these online job finders are filled to the brim with "staffing services". I rarely even get responses from all the resumes I send out. If these staffing services had to pay us for our time we wasted with their "testing" maybe they would be able to place a few of us. That would be nice. Pay us for our wasted time!

Sheri said: Why are all these "staffing" services still in business?

From my experience, most agencies require that you test with them or on their softwares. They "need these test scores to foward to the client". I have taken the same tests at least 5 times.
This is time consuming - however - you can get practice from taking the tests. Be sure to follow up on what you may have missed, so, next time you can improve your scores. I've even retested at some places to have better scores. Also - ask if they can send you practice sessions or what version you're testing on.
Write down your basic job questions and take them with you. After interview, review what you may want to add/delete next time.
Also - use the interview for practice. Some recruiters want to get you in/out and go on. MAKE THEM answer your questions. If you are working with someone who's rushing you, get your answers. You don't have to work with them again.
Either way, you'll find out what your strengths/improvement areas are.
Googling is another great tool. "interview questions", "XYA Accounting tutorials", etc.
Good luck.

Sheri said: Why are all these "staffing" services still in business? I am signed up to work for 4 different places and haven't worked a day yet! And it's impossible to actually get thru a door and drop off a resume at any company's any more. And all these online job finders are filled to the brim with "staffing services". I rarely even get responses from all the resumes I send out. If these staffing services had to pay us for our time we wasted with their "testing" maybe they would be able to place a few of us. That would be nice. Pay us for our wasted time!

Hello Sheri,
Maybe there is something going on with your resume. Head over to www.tekshak.com and e-mail the admin (thats me) your resume. I will take a look at it and give you some suggestions. Also, please be sure to let me know what type of jobs you are applying for. Hope I can help ya.

Displaced Legal Professional said: The headhunters have taken over the job boards. Compare the number of jobs you see from real, direct-higher employers to those posted by headhunters. I wonder if headhunters secretly own the job boards, or if the boards cut headhunters sweet deals for posting on them.
At least in Denver, legitimate legal employers rarely post positions on, e.g., Monster and Careerbuilder. Headhunters, and especially Robert Half-Assed, post the majority of legal positions. Of course, it's questionable if any or all of these "positions" are real.
My resumes draw headhunters like flies to sh*t. I don't answer them. I know their game. I understand that in my business there are many well qualified candidates and very few jobs. Nonetheless, I refuse to believe that so many law firms, especially larger firms, have delegated their recruiting function to headhunters.

Trust me, the headhunters do not run the boards, nor do we get good deals. It costs quite a bit of money ($150 - $300 / posting) to post on the job boards. You are right though that most very high level positions are never given to an agency. Most companies prefer to higher these people on their own. If I ever know of a position like this, I let my candidates know this and give them the contact information for the hiring manager. This will cut out a commission, but when they see the kind of people we send over to them for a direct position like that, it usually surprises the manager quite a bit. This usually helps out in the long run.

To Displaced Legal Professional
You have made a very broad statement. Not all recruiters are the same. They're just not. Just like not all job seekers are the same.
I have seen quite a few company advertisements on Indeed. However, some of these postings are for face value only, ie, they HAVE to post even though the already have an internal placement. My old company does this on a regular basis.
We all receive the bizarre e-mails. I have gotten 3 to be a professional truck driver. My profession is administrative. By the way, if you don't think that is "professional", try to find a successful executive that doesn't have one.

I am registerd for about 5 staffing agencies and nobody has been calling me except Robert Half International which owns OfficeTeam, but it was the same client that I helped them out before I found a job at the Federal Reserve Bank. come on. They have to have more then one client which I know they do, but why isn't the staffing managers or the others calling me when I do call in my availability once a week (Mondays). What is with this economy. I never heard from Nelson Staffing solutions since the first week of January and we are in March. Gosh it is terrible.

"They then would try to pidgeonhole her into a job for which she was not remotely qualified."

This happens to most people. I'm not defending their actions. Just don't take the job, or take it til you find another.

"some of these postings are for face value only, ie, they HAVE to post ..
Why do you do this?? ...

Before you take shots at me.. Look again. I DIDN'T DO THIS. I do know that this happens with some companies. I don't work in HR, so, I don't have the rules.

.. professional truck driver. I am talking about off-the-wall e-mails in which there is no nexus between what I do and what they are "recruiting" for. Have you any explanation for that?

And you think I should be getting truck ads? Talk about not remotely associated with my profession.
Everyone gets the spammed e-mails. From what I've seen, if you have a resume posted on like Careerbuilder, you'll get these type ads. I've sent notes to CB to stop getting them and don't even get a response from CB. I get the Sales Personnel ads at least once a week, delete, and go on - my thought is that they are auto-generated somehow.

Margaret Fong said: I am registerd for about 5 staffing agencies

It's all a numbers game. The more you register with, the better chance you have. From most postings I've seen, it is recommended that you network as hard as you can.
All I can say is to keep persevering and TRY to be positive. Beleive me, I know how hard that is.
The only other thing I might add is screen some by calling. I have found that agencies that make actual appointments with you, rather than "come in between 9 AM and 2 PM, seem to be more focused in helping you. Versus, being herded in at any time. IN other words, the ones that put forth more effort before you get there, seem to be the ones that are more willing, and genuine, in helping you.
I wish you the best.

I haven't had good luck with RH either, but let me toss in something that I have noticed on many of these messages. They are chock full with misspelled words and bad grammar. Could this be a reason you're not being called back? Do your resumes and/or cover letters contains these errors? Maybe you should have someone check them over. I don't say this will do you any good, but it couldn't hurt!

Gayle said: I haven't had good luck with RH either, but let me toss in something that I have noticed on many of these messages. They are chock full with misspelled words and bad grammar. Could this be a reason you're not being called back? Do your resumes and/or cover letters contains these errors? Maybe you should have someone check them over. I don't say this will do you any good, but it couldn't hurt!

I can appreciate what you're saying. However, I think that most of us that post here take quite a bit more care with grammer, etc. on the things that count. In Forums, we are alot more forgiving (at least most of us) for Faux Paus. Typing in forums is usually done quickly. PLUS, the critical things are usually done in programs with spell check of some sort, word, etc.
It's a good thought.

Displaced Legal Professional said: The headhunters have taken over the job boards. Compare the number of jobs you see from real, direct-higher employers to those posted by headhunters. I wonder if headhunters secretly own the job boards, or if the boards cut headhunters sweet deals for posting on them.
At least in Denver, legitimate legal employers rarely post positions on, e.g., Monster and Careerbuilder. Headhunters, and especially Robert Half-Assed, post the majority of legal positions. Of course, it's questionable if any or all of these "positions" are real.
My resumes draw headhunters like flies to sh*t. I don't answer them. I know their game. I understand that in my business there are many well qualified candidates and very few jobs. Nonetheless, I refuse to believe that so many law firms, especially larger firms, have delegated their recruiting function to headhunters.

I read online that if RHI uses a 9 after the first three digits, the job posting is fake. Example: 111-9452000

Displaced Legal Professional said: I don't care to find out.
She also said she was not like other headhunters, and she was trustworthy. I complimented her on her persistence.

Thanks for the chuckle. Like I've reiterated before, do they REALLY think we're all that gullible?

Loved your tongue in check humor. LOL ;)

Displaced Legal Professional said: Hello: "[D]o they REALLY think we're all that gullible?"
Several months ago, I made the mistake of listing my phone number on a Careerbuilder resume. A headhunter (not a Half-***) called me. I told her I do not deal with headhunters. She, too, said she was not like other headhunters. Of course, no headhunter is EVER like any other headhunter.
I said again, politely, that I do not deal with headhunters. She became rude. She demanded of me, "Why not? It doesn't cost you anything. You don't have to accept the offer," etc. After she figured out she wasn't going to get anywhere with me she demanded to know if I knew of anyone who would be interested. In effect, the headhunter asked me to do her headhunting! The nerve of these people!

I agree. It's sad, on their part, that they try for leads in this manner. I've been asked, "Well, do you know ...".. Since I was laid off, even if I did know, why would I recommend someone who might be vying for the same jobs I'm going after?

Hang in there

"Why not? It doesn't cost you anything. You don't have to accept the offer," etc.

I guess my honest answer might have been - "Quite frankly, that's none of your business."

Anne Landers had a great response for intrusive questions,

"Why do you ask?"
HAR

Displaced Legal Professional said: Hello: "'Why not? It doesn't cost you anything. You don't have to accept the offer,' etc.
I guess my honest answer might have been - 'Quite frankly, that's none of your business.'
Anne Landers had a great response for intrusive questions,
'Why do you ask?'"
Headhunters ask where you have applied. They say they want to avoid duplication. You bet they do.
Several years ago I applied for a job for which I was rejected. About a week thereafter, I met with a headhunter. At her request I disclosed where I had applied for jobs, but, unintentionally and inadvertently, did not give her that employer. Several days later, she called me. She screamed at me for not giving her that employer's name. She had apparently sent my resume there and they said they had interviewed me. She raged at ME for making HER look bad! I never heard from her again. I was crushed. ;)
It's none of their business where you have applied. Of course the real reason they want to know where you've applied is to pump you for leads.

That may be part of the reason, but in my experience there are some employers that if they are working with 2 staffing companies and they submit the same person they might disregard the candidate altogether. They do this if they have a good relationship with both companies and don't want to be seen as playing favorites. That is the only reason that I ask where people have applied to. I don't want to have them disqualified by resubmitting them.

You are completely correct. Thats no reason for her to be rude. Also, that would not make her look bad to a company. The only way she would look bad is if she submitted you before, and then resubmitted you. Then she would look like an idiot for not keeping track of her candidates. Other than that, she would not look bad.

Displaced Legal Professional said:
"Thank you. This woman was a supposedly reputable and professional headhunter.
Other headhunters I've spoken with have also been rude or abrupt. I realize you cannot speak for all headhunters, but there is no reason to be rude or abrupt to candidates. Candidates are far more than inventory; they are people."

I agree 100%

When I was in college, their San mateo branch constantly called me and told me to register with them and to work as a temp until I am able to find a job on my own. That all they do is "staff" which means you will be a temp. They are not your social workers in which someone is "given" a job. To find a job is to get out there and go through every avenue you can think of. Network with people. I am sure you are able to land your dream job.

JustinK said:
That may be part of the reason, but in my experience there are some employers that if they are working with 2 staffing companies and they submit the same person they might disregard the candidate altogether. They do this if they have a good relationship with both companies and don't want to be seen as playing favorites. That is the only reason that I ask where people have applied to. I don't want to have them disqualified by resubmitting them.

I keep a log of all candidates received and where I obtained them from. If I receive the same candidate from two different agencies, I give the credit to the agency who gave it to me first. I never want to disqualify a candidate for something they had no control over :)

JustinK said:
Trust me, the headhunters do not run the boards, nor do we get good deals. It costs quite a bit of money ($150 - $300 / posting) to post on the job boards. You are right though that most very high level positions are never given to an agency. Most companies prefer to higher these people on their own. If I ever know of a position like this, I let my candidates know this and give them the contact information for the hiring manager. This will cut out a commission, but when they see the kind of people we send over to them for a direct position like that, it usually surprises the manager quite a bit. This usually helps out in the long run.

Why don't you try theladders.com :)

Displaced Legal Professional said: Justin: "[I]n my experience there are some employers that if they are working with 2 staffing companies and they submit the same person they might disregard the candidate altogether. They do this if they have a good relationship with both companies and don't want to be seen as playing favorites. That is the only reason that I ask where people have applied to. I don't want to have them disqualified by resubmitting them."
The firm to which that headhunter had sent my resume had already disqualified me via rejection. So her resubmitting me would have made no difference. So what if she thought she looked bad to the company? That was her problem, not mine. She had no cause to be rude to me.
It is no one's business but mine where I have applied for work. I am not there to protect a headhunter from "looking bad."

Hi there,
One experience I've had with headhunters and where companies have applied has been beneficial to the candidate. For example, and Justin I hope its ok to reference you in my example, Justin submits your resume to me (the employer) and says "displaced legal professional" is a great candidate for your job...you need to move on this person if you want them because they have interviewed at other companies that are your competition. A good recruiter at an employer would heed this advice and move quickly...a bad one would not. Also, the more information you give to your recruiting agency, the better they can help you. I know from my point of view, and I am sure Justin would agree, that a recruiting agency knows quite a bit about the employer. We typically invite the agency to our facitilty, give them a tour, introduce them to people and so on.

Margaret Fong said: When I was in college, their San mateo branch constantly called me and told me to register with them and to work as a temp until I am able to find a job on my own. That all they do is "staff" which means you will be a temp. They are not your social workers in which someone is "given" a job. To find a job is to get out there and go through every avenue you can think of. Network with people. I am sure you are able to land your dream job.

I encourage everyone to get a LinkedIn account.
Its probably the best networking tool out there :)

Hello HR,

To answer your posts in order. Most employers do not automatically disqualify a person, most do what you described there. I do know of a few companies that do disqualify a candidate if they are submitted by 2 companies. I was just giving an example of why the recruiter might have asked where someone has applied.

Thank you for the website. I have not heard of that one before. I'll make sure to check it out.

As for your last post, no problem using me as an example. I'm not going to lie here, even if the candidate says they have not interviewed elsewhere and I think they are a good candidate I will tell the company they have to act quick, or they may not be on the market for long. You are also correct in saying that we do get to know the company we are working with very well.

Displaced Legal Professional said: hr tells the truth: "One experience I've had with headhunters and where companies have applied has been beneficial to the candidate. For example, and Justin I hope its ok to reference you in my example, Justin submits your resume to me (the employer) and says "displaced legal professional" is a great candidate for your job...you need to move on this person if you want them because they have interviewed at other companies that are your competition. A good recruiter at an employer would heed this advice and move quickly...a bad one would not."
Of course Justin will pump up candidates. That's salesmanship. That's his job if he hopes to collect a commission.
I work in the legal profession. At least in Denver I have found that law firms are notoriously slow in "moving on" candidates. Perhaps it's because there are so few jobs and so many candidates. They don't care where, when or if you have interviewed.
"Also, the more information you give to your recruiting agency, the better they can help you. I know from my point of view, and I am sure Justin would agree, that a recruiting agency knows quite a bit about the employer. We typically invite the agency to our facility, give them a tour, introduce them to people and so on."
I've heard of that.
I am unpersuaded that headhunters pump candidates for information solely for altruistic reasons. They want to know where the bodies are buried. I will not help them do their jobs.

I have some friends in the legal profession here in Pittsburgh...I'll ask them where they find people...maybe it will help you ;)

JustinK said: Hello HR,
To answer your posts in order. Most employers do not automatically disqualify a person, most do what you described there. I do know of a few companies that do disqualify a candidate if they are submitted by 2 companies. I was just giving an example of why the recruiter might have asked where someone has applied.
Thank you for the website. I have not heard of that one before. I'll make sure to check it out.
As for your last post, no problem using me as an example. I'm not going to lie here, even if the candidate says they have not interviewed elsewhere and I think they are a good candidate I will tell the company they have to act quick, or they may not be on the market for long. You are also correct in saying that we do get to know the company we are working with very well.

Oh I knew what you were saying. I was just telling you my practices :) I was just using my comment as an example not the rule (why the agency would ask that) :)

Displaced Legal Professional said:
Of course Justin will pump up candidates. That's salesmanship. That's his job if he hopes to collect a commission.

I promote all qualified candidates. But like I have said in other threads, I work for a small family owned staffing company and do not receive a commission at all. I only get a base salary.

Displaced Legal Professional said: JustinK: "I promote all qualified candidates.
.. As opposed to the Robert Half-Asses and their kind. Those cutthroats work on commission.

Comment on cutthroats. I had a situation come last week that I had not had happen before, and was not sure how to handle. This recruiter was not the best on returning calls.
I had interviewed for a temp position at the company I worked at, for 18 yrs and laid off 5 yrs ago. This was in a dept had tried to transfer into about 8 yrs ago.

Wed, got call from recruiter for interview, Fri interviewed and let the employer know that I was interested, but, since I was waiting for word on other offers, could not commit until the next Thurs. Left voice mail to recruiter, interviewed well, etc.
Mon PM, I received e-mail from recruiter saying "Congratulations, you got the job" and I'd be starting the next Monday. To me, he had accepted the job and start date for me without any discussion. Also, I had told him - prior to interview - that the salary was too low. Not only was I livid that he accepted without discussing with me, but, I had not even completed tax forms, etc. I didn't even know how I'd get paid. This company is located 6 states away. Is accepting a job like this even legal?

I didn't want to lose credibility with company, but, talking with recruiter, he said that he had not accepted position for me.

Any advice? How do I handle being "used" like this?
I'm looking at other jobs, this one is out of the picture.

Still Strong,

It sounds like he was extending an offer to you, and if you wanted to accept it he was giving you the start date. Absolutely nothing wrong with that. You still have the option of saying no, you're not bound to take the job or anything.

I have been dealing with headhunters all my life - and that's been a very long time. This is from coast-to-coast. My latest beef with them is that, for some unknown reason, when you get a contract position to bring in some money, they cut you off and never call you back. What is that about? I can only say that this has been the worst time of my life and I have over 30 years of legal experience and haven't been able to find work for over a year. Just recently, a very nice gal who never met me found a contract position for me. I can only hope and pray that our relationship will be honest and forthright.

Job discrimination is rampant in the legal field. Even firms and companies that are well aware of discrimination laws will blatantly discriminate against older applicants. One of the more common practices is to advertise for someone with 2-3 years of legal experience. Since when did 2-3 years of legal experince become better than 8-10 years of legal experience?

JustinK in Bloomfield Hills, Michigan said: Trust me, the headhunters do not run the boards, nor do we get good deals. It costs quite a bit of money ($150 - $300 / posting) to post on the job boards. You are right though that most very high level positions are never given to an agency. Most companies prefer to higher these people on their own. If I ever know of a position like this, I let my candidates know this and give them the contact information for the hiring manager. This will cut out a commission, but when they see the kind of people we send over to them for a direct position like that, it usually surprises the manager quite a bit. This usually helps out in the long run.

Justin, Perhaps you will have more positive results if you double check spelling before posting comments. Spell check does not pick out incorrect words if they would be the correct spelling for a different word, ie, higher vs. hire.

Sheri in Saint Louis, Missouri said: Why are all these "staffing" services still in business? I am signed up to work for 4 different places and haven't worked a day yet! And it's impossible to actually get thru a door and drop off a resume at any company's any more. And all these online job finders are filled to the brim with "staffing services". I rarely even get responses from all the resumes I send out. If these staffing services had to pay us for our time we wasted with their "testing" maybe they would be able to place a few of us. That would be nice. Pay us for our wasted time!

You think that's bad? I joined a legal staffing service that charges a monthly fee to search their site for legal positions and have gotten numerous emails back saying "We never posted anything on Lawcrossing." It appears as though the company just goes out & searches other postings for legal positions and posts them on their site, then charges people to access them on their site!

hr tells the truth in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania said: Why don't you try theladders.com :)

Because they are a SCAM...they post hundreds of jobs, many of which dont exist in order to compile resumes for their data base and the off chance they do have a legit job posted, they have hundreds to choose from - most of which dont have a prayer to be called; then when you click on a job posted, it takes you to a site that makes you "upgrade" to see it. Of course, registration is free but that doesnt get you squat.

Avoid The Ladders.