Very important post - Robert Half & Age Discrimination

LeagleBeagle in Houston, Texas

I am a former Robert Half manager too. They can't keep people in the seats past lunch. They are clueless in the legal staffing industry and think their accounttemps/officeteam model of 125 calls and 12 visits solves everything. It's all about gross margin profit and NEVER about the candidate. They practice age discrimination with a secret coding system called AIP -- Attitude, Intellect and Placeability. High is 1 low is 5. Passed out a sheet in a training seminar saying to grade someone as a "4" who was a "matured worker." A clue--job orders are 3 numbers and a dash like 111- if the next number is a "9" it is a fake job order.

I have worked for RHI in the past, and I don't recall that a '4' on the AIP means a mature worker. I do recall giving candidates 4's because they showed up in jeans and a t-shirt!

I do agree that there is some discrimation towards age, race, religious beliefs, and weight. After working for the company for a few years, I opted to transfer to another division for a new challange. When I started training, I was told by one of the managers that they 'place people who look like them' because they are directly representing the firm. I have heard recruiters mention that the candidate was 'too fat' for the interview, or if the candidate has more than 20 years of experience on the resume, then they are too old to be represented.

After witnessing many other illegal activities with regards to discrimination, I reported it to the legal department, and obsearved my co-workers get a simple slap in the hand. Meanwhile, I was forced out of the company because I wouldn't follow the same practices.

I am unemployed, looking for another opportunity, and don't regret my decision for leaving. I strongly believe in being professional and ethical, however, I can't help but wonder if the nice guys really finish last?

Hey guys,

Since you both worked for Robert Half do they post fake jobs just to get resumes?

I see the same freaking postings from them all the time and that is why I have never approached them. I just thought these postings seemed fishy because they are always there. I thought to myself, they haven't found someone for this position yet after a couple of months? This can't be a real job...

The answer to your question is yes, they post 'fake' jobs just to get resumes. You can tell if they are fake by looking for the words 'ongoing opportunities' in the job description.

Thanks, I just checked out some of their postings and I see 'ongoing opportunities' I will be sure and stay away from those.

So the jobs without 'ongoing opportunities' are legit? I still see jobs that have been out there for over 6 months without 'ongoing opportunities' in them. I think they are bogus too...

More than likely, that was a 'real' job at one point in time, and nobody has taken the effort to pull it off the internet, or they are letting it linger on to recruit candidates.

I agree with you that it's very frustrating, and I personally find it to be very misleading to the job seekers such as yourself.

I am calling for a BOYCOTT of all staffing agencies. They waste our time, dash our hopes and take advantage of the desperate.

DO NOT REPLY TO ANY STAFFING AGENCY.

Tell everyone you know who's looking for a job to go directly to the person that will hire them. Do not go through the BS again!

Its gotten out of control here too, the agencies have cornered the market, I've been looking for employment for almost two months now, I have a stack of cards from all these agencies, they don't return calls and lie straight to you're face. These agencies are nothing but a bunch of kids who care more about their next text message than they do about helping people with employment. And somehow they have convinced practically all the companies in the phoenix metro area that they need these agencies to find good IT people.

I have another theory of what they're doing - carrot dangling? I think that they are taking my resume and encouraging a company that is not already working with them to interview me and then once the company says they want to hire me, they then command a high placement fee. I don't even think these companies initially have contracts with Robert Half, or think of working with RH to find an employee, but RH seeks them out... Could this be true? If so, can one of the companies hire someone they interviewed through RH w/o RH if they did not ever sign a contract?

You guys are right, these recruiters are nothing but a bunch of wet behind the ears kids. Why do these companies even hire these young people with no real background in any field?

***********************

Check this post from a recruiter:

www.gregandbeth.com/blog/index.php?action=view&id=87

******************

Just got a house! Yippie, moving on up like the Jefferson's
Plays fantasy football (adjusts lineup before calling you)
Just bought a carpet cleaner (wow, major purchase)
Cant organize or throw out clothes (really sad)

Would you really trust this person to find a job for you? I sure wouldn't.

This is what you are dealing with most of the time when you are dealing with a recruiter. Beware job seekers! Most of them I have encountered do tend to be young people in their 20s. Nothing wrong with being young, I was once, but I don't like dealing with youngsters who have no idea what I do for a living and just read key words off of resumes and try to act like they are professional.

I find it really amazing companies rely on recruiting companies and the type of people that work for them.

curious said: .... I think that they are taking my resume and encouraging a company that is not already working with them to interview me and then once the company says they want to hire me, they then command a high placement fee.

Without disputing anything else said about recruiters... what's wrong with this???? They found a person who needed a job (YOU) and found an employer who needed You. Isn't that what they are supposed to do to earn their fee????

We need to remember the other side of the hiring process: The person who is actually making the decision to look at your resume. (Generally it's HR) Most HR professionals/corporate recruiters aren't experts in all departments (such as accounting, IT, legal, etc) to know exactly what a great candidate looks like! The line manager could be so frustrated with the resumes that have been selected by the HR professional, and not see the talent that they want! When they are desperate, they offer to pay a large fee just to find that person! That's where the companies like RH come in. They know the desperation, and take advantage of it. Since larger companies can afford a large corporate recruiting department, they are able to hire 'experts' in those fields. Hince, the reason why your large companies don't pay a placement fee for positions that pay less than 100K. It has been known for them to pay a fee for the 'hard to find, executive level candidate'.

Your middle sized companies without this budget is the sweet spot for perm placement companies for just this reason alone.

What is my suggestion to all this? Personally answer all postings that you are interested in. If you get a call from an agency that has already sent your resume to a company without your prior consent, demand to know where it went, and who it went to. You now have a right to call that person, and explain the situation. If this was to happen, then the placement firm cannot demand a fee!

If you decide to register with a placement firm, then make sure they get your explicit permission to send your resume to line managers. You also have a right to know where it's going prior to sending. Don't let them tell you 'its confidential'.

Also,don't fall for the 'please let us know where your resume has been' routine. They only do this to market their services to that company. Instead, just tell them the types of positions that you are applying for.

Up here in NH 9 out of 10 companys practice age discrimation. If your over 50 they don't want you. I know, I've had countless interviews. They seem to go well, and love my experience, but I never get the job. I am healthy, been to college, and have at least another 10 years to work.I wish I could ask them IF they were a real EOE before I waste my gas.What's it going to take- everyone over 50 being homeless??

I recomment filtering out staffing agencies:
Advanced Job Search
With none of these words:
Volt Adecco Peak D.E. Lea
- you can add other miserable agencies' name as long as they don't conflict with your KEY words.
And only aply directly to the employer, get to speak to the person who's actually going to hire you, small companies are the best bet, don't go through HR filtering.
I got jobs that way and I am over 50 years old.

I recomment filtering out staffing agencies:
Advanced Job Search
With none of these words:
Volt Adecco Peak D.E. Lea
- you can add other miserable agencies' name as long as they don't conflict with your KEY words.
And only aply directly to the employer, get to speak to the person who's actually going to hire you, small companies are the best bet, don't go through HR filtering.
I got jobs that way and I am over 50 years old.

joe shmoe - A CALL FOR A BOYCOTT said: I am calling for a BOYCOTT of all staffing agencies. They waste our time, dash our hopes and take advantage of the desperate.
DO NOT REPLY TO ANY STAFFING AGENCY.
Tell everyone you know who's looking for a job to go directly to the person that will hire them. Do not go through the BS again!

I've had great experiences with some staffing agencies. I guess it just depends on who you go with.

I worked for a staffing agency once too ... 1994.
Today, with the proliferation of the Internet, we are inundated by automatic monthly postings for non-existing, false offerings.
I am willing to guess that you are young and pretty.

Wow. That comment was just fine until your last statement. My age and looks have nothing to do with my experiences. The staffing agencies I have worked with placed me in technical communications positions in respectable companies. I appreciate that they did. It gave me a chance to contract and gain experience in various areas of technical communications.

Yes, there are some agencies out there that just want to rake in the resumes and waste your time, but there are still good ones. Banning all of them is not the right move. People need to research their staffing agency and the companies their agency places them in before accepting positions.

OK, I admit that the last comment is off the mark. It arises from my frustrations concerning age discrimination. However, I follow my own advice of filtering staffing agencies in the New York City area, and I do get to go interviews with the employer that may hire me. I have success with that, even at my age. There's also less paper involved and less prying into your stained past, which some of us may have accrued.

In reply to your statement, that I must be young and pretty. Nope,I'm not, tho I'm not exactly old and ugly either. LOL

My experience is the same as Joe's. I have never had a good experience with a large staffing agency. They are only after the commission and don't care about the candidate or the client. The more turnover at a client, the more commission they are likely to make. Turnover is the name of the game with them. They send as many candidates to a client as possible, hoping that by inundating them with caididates, they will get tired of interviewing and select one of their candidates. I would only deal with small privately held firms that employ people that will represent you like an agent.

It's funny to read how another person in Phoenix had the same experience with the Phoenix Robert Half office - I thought I was an issolated incident. All calls get forced to voice mail - never to be returned, and no emails receive responses. I thought their job was to fill positions, not create a bad name for the company.

I have left so many voicemails for the contact persons in online postings that I am suspecting that the following is the infrastructure in all these agencies:

If the contact person is John Smith:

1) No person named John Smith works at that location.
2) The email address of John.Smith@name_of_the_agency.com is an email address from which auto forwarding to another real email address happens.
3) There is a voice mail mailbox for a "John Smith" at that location.
4) Messages left in this mail box are retrieved by the person who uses the real email address (as in Step 2).

So, if you leave a voice mail at John Smith's voice mail, there are few chances that John Smith will actually return your call.

If you call the office the receptionist has a good laugh (if she answers) when you ask for John Smith. If you dial the extension directly (which you would normally do) then you get into the voice mail box of the fictitious John Smith.

Heaven help us, job (or John Smith) seekers!

Whistle Blower in the East said: More than likely, that was a 'real' job at one point in time, and nobody has taken the effort to pull it off the internet, or they are letting it linger on to recruit candidates.
I agree with you that it's very frustrating, and I personally find it to be very misleading to the job seekers such as yourself.

If you cant get a job through RHT its because they can only work with the top. The ongoing opportunities represent the inventory of current jobs with the companies they have a footprint in. you idiots blame your own inability to find a job because a recruiting firm decides they cant place you based on the client's decision not to want you. I've used RHT for years and let them screen out all of the broke **** like you before I look at their top candidates. If creating 'ongoing opportunities" keeps talent and potential talent in a tight market flowing to fill my dev team and infrastructure team then my hats off to them. Recruiting is sales.

Take note losers - best candidate wins

Think why you dont have a job. you blame everyone else but yourself for you crappy life, crying on monday morning by the water cooler about how shix$y the company is. Then you cry now because no one will place you.

ever think because the RHT checks backgrounds it might be your performance.

Cheers- best of luck. as they say in sales - "you'll be shining my shoes"

If you cannot say something nice, don't say anything.

Your comments do not help anyone least of all you. Before you post, read what is written below this text box.

"Be Reasonable! Be Polite! Please read our Terms of Service, where it notes that you are responsible for your own comments. You may post anonymously - but we reserve the right to remove inappropriate comments at any time."

I resist the temptation to say something equally inappropriate to you because I do not want to descend to you level.

When you get a series of "we have decided to pass" kind of responses, think of what you have said here - we will be on the other side quietly commisserating with you on your situation - id does not take too long for the wheel to learn.

Regards,

Don't worry about the boycott. In this market they aren't going to find any competent engineers with the qualifications they're asking for for the peanuts they're offering.

bigdog said:
If you cant get a job through RHT its because they can only work with the top. The ongoing opportunities represent the inventory of current jobs with the companies they have a footprint in. you idiots blame your own inability to find a job because a recruiting firm decides they cant place you based on the client's decision not to want you. I've used RHT for years and let them screen out all of the broke dicks like you before I look at their top candidates. If creating 'ongoing opportunities" keeps talent and potential talent in a tight market flowing to fill my dev team and infrastructure team then my hats off to them. Recruiting is sales.
Take note losers - best candidate wins
Think why you dont have a job. you blame everyone else but yourself for you crappy life, crying on monday morning by the water cooler about how shix$y the company is. Then you cry now because no one will place you.
ever think because the RHT checks backgrounds it might be your performance.
Cheers- best of luck. as they say in sales - "you'll be shining my shoes"

In response to bigdog in Pleasanton, California, who wrote:

"Take note losers - best candidate wins ... you idiots blame your own inability to find a job ... let them screen out all of the broke dicks like you ..."

Idiot yourself. I have found a job on my own and am working on my second best paying job in my life, even at my age (53). My advise is: don't waste your time with staffing agencies because their jobs are bogus, or they age discriminate. I do not respond to staffing offers in New York City for all the reasons that have been stated above, and also from personal experience. You stand to get the job when you face your future employer. That's the plain fact. Period.

joe shmoe - A CALL FOR A BOYCOTT said: I am calling for a BOYCOTT of all staffing agencies. They waste our time, dash our hopes and take advantage of the desperate.
DO NOT REPLY TO ANY STAFFING AGENCY.
Tell everyone you know who's looking for a job to go directly to the person that will hire them. Do not go through the BS again!

I moved from NY to Washinghton, looking for a job and what I found here is a monopoly, where everything is control by these agencies, they take advantage of you been desperate for a job and they will pay you low salary.

My experience locally (Minneapolis) is that do exactly what all of you have expressed.

Called in for a "wonderful position". With 27 years of Project Management experience
in IT and SW Engineering, I was indeed a great fit for the position. By the time I left
I knew that the interview was a bust and that they would never call me in again
(interviewer's body language was quite easy to read). Plus she told me there was
nothing in the Minneapolis / St Paul area that would pay my salary needs.

About 7 months later though, I did get a call from another recruiter there. Wanted
me to come in again. Right !!!!

Told him that I had been extremely busy with other firms who were paying me above the scale that I had requested of them (SO MUCH FOR SOME OF YOUR AGRUMENTS ABOUT THEM ONLY TAKING THE CREAM). Further, I told him that I thought this was a clear case of age discrimination. He hmm'd and haw'd for awhile, and I haven't
heard from them since. Just as well since I truly have been exceeding busy with other better paying consulting firms who recognize ability first.

By my take, the "interview" is strictly a filter for eliminating those they find not up to
their young & pretty-boy standards.

well guys...some people have bad and good experiences with agencies. I believe there are good people and bad people that work for the agencies. Looking for a new opportunities is a number game. I worked for two different agencies and decided staffing was not my area because client wanted something specific and candidate wanted something specific and both of them changed their mind often. I believe staffing likes a marriage...it was hard to match people .....
My point is that....if you are looking for a new opportunity, just out flow as many as you can because it is a number game. Use agencies if you want to(I believed they can help sometimes), apply directly to companies or networking (it is the best way). Good luck to you guys!

Ain't it the truth! I'm an athletic, in shape, 53 year old with an IVY league degree, most of an MBA, F500 trained with a great track record and I can't get hired...VERY frustrating:(

Eileen said: Up here in NH 9 out of 10 companys practice age discrimation. If your over 50 they don't want you. I know, I've had countless interviews. They seem to go well, and love my experience, but I never get the job. I am healthy, been to college, and have at least another 10 years to work.I wish I could ask them IF they were a real EOE before I waste my gas.What's it going to take- everyone over 50 being homeless??

It was with a heavy heart that I read these posts. I am currently a recruiter for a very small organization. In my experience there are indeed a lot of recruiters who are only in it for the money. There are, however a lot of us who take a great deal of pride in what we do and look out for both our client AND our candidate. I have NEVER discriminated against age, weight (which is a real problem) religion, sexual orientation, looks, race, gender or against individuals with disabilities. I have, however had clients who did. I have refused to work with theses clients sometimes leaving an exclusive contingent search (even though it meant that I have lost out on a lot of money) because discrimination is wrong...period. Please do not lump us all together and trash us. Some of us do care and work very hard to make sure that the right person is chosen for the position. Ultimately the client is the one that makes the decision on who to bring in for an interview, even though we might not always agree with them.

RHT in Orange County,Ca.
Has not paided me in (3) months, They sent me to one of their clients, the recruiter told me to just fax the time sheet in with out client signature.
I have sent them emails and voice mails and they do not reply....

IF THEY DONT PAY ME...I WILL GET THE LABOR BOARD INVOLVED...

RHT treated me right knowing I was over 55 before I ever went in for an interview and testing. Have nothing bad to say about them at this time. However, Bonney Staffing in Newington, NH is another story. They are all young kids in their 20's. I was tested, but not for Word and Excel although I asked to be tested. Everytime a job comes up that I want to be considered for they patch me through to their manager and that person gives me a 10 minute song and dance of why I am not qualified (live outside of a 30 mile radius, must have recent work history). I sent them an updated resume with all the volunteer and work I'd been doing and that didn't change a thing. The next time I called it was because they did not have excel and word testing info on me. When I told them to make an appointment for me to come in and complete the testing they tried talking me out of it. UNBELIEVABLE. I told them to remove my files from their records as I wouldn't have anything more to do with them if they were the last agency in NH. AGE DISCRIMINATION pure and simple, because if anything, I'm over qualified for all of these jobs, yet they know I'm willing to work for $8.50 an hour because I have a full pension coming in. Still they have excuses. Would love to sue them, but I'm sure they can weasel out of it with their lies. DO NOT GO TO BONNEY STAFFING if you live in NH. They aren't worth the time.