Wachovia Layoff

snoopy in nowhere, Mississippi said: its always been about the count.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=12kln3-ZOn0&feature=related

And as thats the case then by all means get it over:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=qeFFtmjpTSs

I know going through the layoff experience is new to the folks in appraisal admin and national managers,but here is a word of advice: NO INFORMATION IS BETTER THAN BAD INFORMATION. I honestly think that our upper management has the best intentions to keep us informed,but please don't promise dates any more. Remember July 15th when we would know of all changes. By now, you all should understand that you or we can't trust Wachovia. Be careful when you say that Wachovia is COMMMITTED to things like severance. Remember when David pope said he was 1000% COMMITTED (Pseudo-dynamic management speak) to portfolio lending and wholesale. The truth is that appraisal admin and upper appraisal managers don't Know what is going to happen and don't know what Wachovia is COMMITTED to. Stop pretending like you have a grasp on things. Sorry if I sound too harsh, I believe B.H. is a good man(R.L I'm not so sure about), but please stop communicating things you have no idea about. Sorry to vent,but all this misinformation is damaging to people and to be honest , just plain cruel at this point.

Good day.

Hey decent appraiser, I hear what you say but I don't think people are reporting what they hear to be cruel. And I agree with you, WB changes their mind at the drop of a hat. I kept asking myself why would a company keep people in their jobs when there is very little to do? And the answer to me seems to be if they lower their 12 month average of pay then the severance payout will be reduced or they will initiate natural attrition. That is the only thing that makes sense. But reporting what you hear I think is being done because there is very little information from who you work for. Either they know what's happening & not telling or even your superiors are in the dark. With decisions being made and constantly changed it's hard to know the right answers. But the indecisive way in dismissal of the employees seems to be a normal way of doing business for WB. The other banks do it too fast and WB is very slow. Both ways are very damaging to the employees. Elvis Presley maybe you have something there, wouldn't that scare the heck out of the banking system!

Presley Elvis in New Hill, North Carolina said: OPEN YOUR EYES>
I have always been a tow the line type of employee. As long as I had employment everything was fine. Well, unfortunately, my eyes a wide open. Wachovia practices hiring contract workers so they can avoid paying benefits. That is understandable. However, Wachovia has gone so far as to own their own temp agency. Again, no benefits, work at will. Now they hire Steel. CEO from Carolina who was at the treasury department was contributing to the subprime mortgage bubble. He comes in and cuts the heads off of the mortgage mess he helped create and gets applause for it. Not applause only, but millions in stock profit. He and others drive the price of stock into the ground, come in and slash and burn the mortgage people, increase the bond price and make millions in the process. He is not alone. I do not feel anger towards the rich, but when a person profits because someone gets fired, I feel a certain disdain for them as human beings. Corporate wellfare and the government have been in bed for sometime. Now, we get front row seats at this destruction. I say we as mortgage professionals start a union nationwide. If anyone is interested in forming a legal union and is in the mortgage industry, please respond to this and we can begin the process. No more temp agency taking our benefits and soaking up our profits. Their will be pain involved, but it will be worth sticking it to a company that allows a Department of Treasury head to come in and fire mortgage employees while profiting at their expense. WHO IS WITH ME?

I'm there!

Nasty Wach in Miami, Florida said: I am sorry you have to go through this, it must be very depressing. You need to have a decision very soon. Do you have a manager you can talk to about this?

Nasty you are right. If you can talk to a manager it "might" help, especially if it's a World one. But I know when I was employed I talked to many managers, World and Wachovia, spoke with HR, and put it in writing because people in my office were getting sick and very depressed. Most managers said I was over-reacting and everything was okay. No one was losing their jobs. And then we were laid off. It is what it is and answers will eventually come, but what you are going through is the worst. However, I feel the answers will come very soon. But I wouldn't expect an open answer just because you ask for one as that does not seem to be on the agenda.

Sink as you sail in Southern, California said: You said it SOCA. Nothing is worse than watching origination and underwriters packing their stuff while you are made to wait (for nothing of course.) Having DAL/RAL (original World managers) act business as usual leaves a bad taste in the mouth. I feel mostly betrayed by the ones who knew and yet never said a thing. I am very lucky to have a manager (above RAL) who is straight-forward. It gives me a sense of peace to know there is no pot of gold at the end of this rainbow. It's just liberating to look beyond Wachovia. I feel bad for the people who not only want to stay but need to stay. I'd hate to see them let go when all I do is hope that I've screwed up enough to be let go.

Speaking of bait and switch- there is mandatory training for appraisers coming up on PVO (Value opinion) so I'm hoping that's a good sign.

This is probably a stupid question. But, why would a company use a "bait-and switch" tactic isntead of just being straight about everything that is going on? I would definitely appreciate and have more respect for a company that tells me like it is, and gives me ample time to look for another job. And I would still work hard 'til the end, because I would feel that I owe that company at least that much since they treated me well.

Mrs Blaque in Purgatory, United States minor outlying islands said: This is probably a stupid question. But, why would a company use a "bait-and switch" tactic isntead of just being straight about everything that is going on? I would definitely appreciate and have more respect for a company that tells me like it is, and gives me ample time to look for another job. And I would still work hard 'til the end, because I would feel that I owe that company at least that much since they treated me well.

These tactics are used so as not to upset the cart! LOL The idea is that if you know you will be laid off then production will suffer as well as customer service. It is very common practice for a company not to let anyone know when the actual lay off is until right before it hits (hours only not days). There is a method to this madness but since it has already been publicly stated that Wachovia is laying off and all other departments have been hit, it just feels cruel.

SOCA Appraiser in California said: These tactics are used so as not to upset the cart! LOL The idea is that if you know you will be laid off then production will suffer as well as customer service. It is very common practice for a company not to let anyone know when the actual lay off is until right before it hits (hours only not days). There is a method to this madness but since it has already been publicly stated that Wachovia is laying off and all other departments have been hit, it just feels cruel.

I guess I'll never understand this type of practice. I know that I'll be a better worker bee if they told me straight out that I'll be laid off on a certain date, with time to look for a job elsewhere. I know that my production work load won't suffer as much as it is now by being in the dark because I'm so stressed out. I think knowing when the end is near is better than not knowing for me. And, you're right, it sure does feel cruel!

decent appraiser in central states, Virgin Islands said: I know going through the layoff experience is new to the folks in appraisal admin and national managers,but here is a word of advice: NO INFORMATION IS BETTER THAN BAD INFORMATION. I honestly think that our upper management has the best intentions to keep us informed,but please don't promise dates any more. Remember July 15th when we would know of all changes. By now, you all should understand that you or we can't trust Wachovia. Be careful when you say that Wachovia is COMMMITTED to things like severance. Remember when David pope said he was 1000% COMMITTED (Pseudo-dynamic management speak) to portfolio lending and wholesale. The truth is that appraisal admin and upper appraisal managers don't Know what is going to happen and don't know what Wachovia is COMMITTED to. Stop pretending like you have a grasp on things. Sorry if I sound too harsh, I believe B.H. is a good man(R.L I'm not so sure about), but please stop communicating things you have no idea about. Sorry to vent,but all this misinformation is damaging to people and to be honest , just plain cruel at this point.

Good day.

Decent appr. -

Maybe so, however the information provided in my post was directly from the Central states conference call. If B.H is to be believed, then what I posted is true. There were of course a lot of questions people had that he had no answers for. The two things he did say VERY clearly were: 1 - the anouncement about appraisal "staffing" decisions have been pushed back to the first week of Sept &: 2 - They have opted NOT for "total displacement" allowing those who want to continue being employed with WB to reapply but rather for "assessment". Which means they make decisions who gets displaced and who stays. If you WANT to get displaced, this is bad news indeed. He did say that there were going to be a drastic reduction in the size of the appraisal dept. from it's present form but declined to give #'s

Dangling by a thread in Recession Town said: Decent appr. -

Maybe so, however the information provided in my post was directly from the Central states conference call. If B.H is to be believed, then what I posted is true. There were of course a lot of questions people had that he had no answers for. The two things he did say VERY clearly were: 1 - the anouncement about appraisal "staffing" decisions have been pushed back to the first week of Sept &: 2 - They have opted NOT for "total displacement" allowing those who want to continue being employed with WB to reapply but rather for "assessment". Which means they make decisions who gets displaced and who stays. If you WANT to get displaced, this is bad news indeed. He did say that there were going to be a drastic reduction in the size of the appraisal dept. from it's present form but declined to give #'s

So that means you get laid off but need to post to get re-hired?? Or you have to post to stay statua guo. That's smoke and mirrors as just about every World employee that has posted for a job back with WB, the position they posted for somehow is put on hold or discontinued. What does that say really for "if you want to stay" I think WB is just not interested in World people as we are not looked as fitting their profile. I heard that some WB Management that are already high up now have to post for the same position they are already in. There is zero security in this industry today. Why bother? Just an opinion.

Mrs Blaque in Purgatory, United States minor outlying islands said: This is probably a stupid question. But, why would a company use a "bait-and switch" tactic isntead of just being straight about everything that is going on? I would definitely appreciate and have more respect for a company that tells me like it is, and gives me ample time to look for another job. And I would still work hard 'til the end, because I would feel that I owe that company at least that much since they treated me well.

Well WB keeps you hanging on too long. If you jump ship and go to another banking focused company they will drop you very fast and give you no time to look for another job because they don't care about you. They want you to devote all your time to the job but if you're not an instant super star in whatever you do (without much training) you will be dumped fast. I don't know what scenario is better? Neither one is productive for the employee. Whether you keep employees at minimal pay for a long time or constantly churn your employees with all the start up costs very quickly I don't see what the advantage is? It's just emotionally destroying to the employee and the banks don't care. Just an opinion, but that is just reactionary thinking and bad business behavior. Why do you want to psychologically destroy all your employees all in the name of the bottom line. The cuts no matter what the timing is has not helped the stock price or bottom line dramatically for very long with any bank using these tactics.

Nameless - more than a number in Wishing I was in the, Virgin Islands, U.S. said: Well WB keeps you hanging on too long. If you jump ship and go to another banking focused company they will drop you very fast and give you no time to look for another job because they don't care about you. They want you to devote all your time to the job but if you're not an instant super star in whatever you do (without much training) you will be dumped fast. I don't know what scenario is better? Neither one is productive for the employee. Whether you keep employees at minimal pay for a long time or constantly churn your employees with all the start up costs very quickly I don't see what the advantage is? It's just emotionally destroying to the employee and the banks don't care. Just an opinion, but that is just reactionary thinking and bad business behavior. Why do you want to psychologically destroy all your employees all in the name of the bottom line. The cuts no matter what the timing is has not helped the stock price or bottom line dramatically for very long with any bank using these tactics.

Seems very counterproductive in the long run. I wonder how WB got to be such a large and "successful" company by treating its employees this way?

Mrs Blaque in Purgatory, United States minor outlying islands said: Seems very counterproductive in the long run. I wonder how WB got to be such a large and "successful" company by treating its employees this way?

Obviously it's because of the superior management.

/Oh yeah, that's sarcasm.

Please, if anyone has advice on how we as banking and mortgage professionals can start a union, I would love to hear from you. If you are tire of being pressured into selling loans that do not fit (see PAP being solicited to refi) then join us and form a mortgage bankers union. Wachovia is now trying to show the markets that they are looking to refi or sell their current upside down PAP loans. Guess what? They do not qualify for full doc loans. It is a sham. The Fed gets involved and the only thing they can come up with is to outlaw stated income programs. Well, you already need a high score and low LTV to do these PAP loans. These are not the customers that are going to default. So, what the Fed has done is just cut 30% or more of our business under the guise of helping. As always, Wachovia is lock step and barrel with the fed. By Aug 15 you will not have anymore SISA or SIVA's. Thanks Fed. Thanks Steel. Now, they expect you to qualify the PAP pipeline to full doc loans to take the risk off of their books and increase stock prices. Bravo Mr. Steel. Meanwhile, lets lay off 40-60% of our work force (mortgages) and also benefit from increased dividends and stocks. So, just so I have this straight, we create a real estate bubble based on interest only loans, investor loans, no money down loans, subprime loans. Foreclosures rise and the top management from Wachovia to the Government (those that left the government during the bubble to "save" the banking institutions they allowed to function). The investors made millions, the builders made millions, the Government took in billions. Now, we (working mortgage staff) are being fired because their is no longer a need for us when the market is soft. This is not unique to the mortgage industry, but it is a perfect example of greed and corruption legalized by the government. Drive the stock into the ground, fire employees, Stock goes up, and retire a millionaire several times over. I guess trickle down economics work.

Presley Elvis in New Hill, North Carolina said: Please, if anyone has advice on how we as banking and mortgage professionals can start a union, I would love to hear from you. If you are tire of being pressured into selling loans that do not fit (see PAP being solicited to refi) then join us and form a mortgage bankers union. Wachovia is now trying to show the markets that they are looking to refi or sell their current upside down PAP loans. Guess what? They do not qualify for full doc loans. It is a sham. The Fed gets involved and the only thing they can come up with is to outlaw stated income programs. Well, you already need a high score and low LTV to do these PAP loans. These are not the customers that are going to default. So, what the Fed has done is just cut 30% or more of our business under the guise of helping. As always, Wachovia is lock step and barrel with the fed. By Aug 15 you will not have anymore SISA or SIVA's. Thanks Fed. Thanks Steel. Now, they expect you to qualify the PAP The investors made millions, the builders made millions, the Government took in billions. Now, we (working mortgage staff) are being fired because their is no longer a need for us when the market is soft. This is not unique to the mortgage industry, but it is a perfect example of greed and corruption legalized by the government. Drive the stock into the ground, fire employees, Stock goes up, and retire a millionaire several time

Go to Nasdaq and look who is buying a lot of WB stock. The name Steel keeps showing up. I guess that means he sees more layoffs in the horizon and the stock should jump temporarily.

Nameless - more than a number in Wishing I was in the, Virgin Islands, U.S. said: Hey decent appraiser, I hear what you say but I don't think people are reporting what they hear to be cruel. And I agree with you, WB changes their mind at the drop of a hat. I kept asking myself why would a company keep people in their jobs when there is very little to do? And the answer to me seems to be if they lower their 12 month average of pay then the severance payout will be reduced or they will initiate natural attrition. That is the only thing that makes sense. But reporting what you hear I think is being done because there is very little information from who you work for. Either they know what's happening & not telling or even your superiors are in the dark. With decisions being made and constantly changed it's hard to know the right answers. But the indecisive way in dismissal of the employees seems to be a normal way of doing business for WB. The other banks do it too fast and WB is very slow. Both ways are very damaging to the employees. Elvis Presley maybe you have something there, wouldn't that scare the heck out of the banking system!

I am very serious about starting a Union. I am looking into the legal ramifications, but I need help and input from you guys. Lets start a separate website for one. Secondly, we could get ACORN or another non-proftit organization to help us voice our concerns. We could hit the steets, get air time on the news and create a never seen before view of the average working mortgage career employee point of view. We know first hand that the fed changes, the congressional meddling, and the stock rising firings are nothing more than smoke and mirrors. Increasing FHA does nothing for the big picture. Tightening credit on good borrowers is killing the final group of consumers still willing to invest in the housing market. There are answers to get the mortgage market moving again. Ask a Loan Officer, he will tell you.

Phila Buster in Washington, District of Columbia said: Obviously it's because of the superior management.

/Oh yeah, that's sarcasm.

A bank will make money because it has money. Simple. When all is done and said. 40-60% of the sale/mortgage force will be gone. The only loans Wachovia will do will be salable fannie/freddie and the ever increasing FHA. Meanwhile, you have some of the sharpest and brightest professionals out of work. Obviously the western area will be hit the hardest, but the eastern support divisions will also be gone. Walkoverya..er..I mean Wachovia will keep the top 30% producers and fire the support desks and try and hire experienced proven MCs/MCB, It will backfire because the new hires may have produced in the past, but no one will be able to do big numbers with the reduced programs and restrictive guidlines on the way. Wach. thinks that they can cut costs by chopping off the non producers and paying higher commission to the top MCs from other companies. NOT going to happen. Talk to any real producer and they will tell you the truth. The push for FHA is inexperienced (back room) and that does not correct itself overnight. This is not bitter grapes. Companies like Wells Fargo thought this through two years ago. Once again, Wachovia is reacting instead of staying ahead of the curve. Wachovia wants to reduce its cost by reducing the support staffs (call centers). They think by hiring experienced producers this will enable them to consolidate or let go half or more of its support staff. Short term, I have no doubt that the stock will go up. Bravo Steel. Long term, PAP loans will not be refied (they do not qualify for full doc or higher rates than they pay now). We will continue to eat those defaults as declining markets continue. Wachovia can not handle the FHA volume it has now. It expects it to increase. Yes, go back to the bank branch focus, you have effectively killed the mortgage industry through short sighted leaders

Nasty Wach in Miami, Florida said: at the time the CLO position was not eliminated but some employees were given a chance to become a MCB, mortgage consultant in the branch. The positions were essentially the same. We were still operating as 2 entities, World and Wach. Once they moved over to a wach branch as an MCB they were no longer eligible for enhanced severance. the layoffs didn't begin until about 9 or 10 months later for the CLOs.

And I would wager that very few who made the move were aware of the implications of that move. In my area it was presented as just some more Wachovia paperwork that reps needed to sign, no big deal, need to have that so you can get access to Insight and your new laptops. I mentioned to several reps that by signing the paperwork they potentially were giving up a lot more than they stood to gain - and that they really needed to read the severance package. But most of our reps were ADHD and just signed the docs and were like "whatever". And now with Wachovia abandoning 19 states the reps and support staff that made the change and survived are cut loose with the PALTRY Wachovia package.

vangogh in Anywherebuthere, New York said: You are correct. That is because when they took the new position (MCB), they were part of Wachovia. MCB was a Wachovia position, not a World Position.

Correct - there was an incredible amount of Willful Ignorance in my region.

Willful Ignorance gets you Bubkus

Presley Elvis in New Hill, North Carolina said: I am very serious about starting a Union. I am looking into the legal ramifications, but I need help and input from you guys. Lets start a separate website for one. Secondly, we could get ACORN or another non-proftit organization to help us voice our concerns.

Presley Elvis.. Come ON!!! Why don't you go to epionline.org, rottenacorn.org, and check out the real ACORN. It's ALL true. You really want to learn something just google: The Obama ACORN knows. Did you know he started his grass roots organizing as an ACORN organizer. Why isn't that front page news. So, you will find out that ACORN has been trying to keep ITS OWN workers from organizing themselves into a union; that they tried unsuccessfully to get a court to exempt them from paying minimum wage to their own workers "because it would give them more money to do their good work." They have been caught in numerous voter registration fraud scams and I don't mean little ones. Oh, and the Sandlers have been giving them millions upon millions foto further their cause. Probably, still are. READ, READ, READ!!

Nameless... There are no "safety nets" in place for the GDW borrowers. Most of them inflated their earnings and assets so what difference does it make if they are qualified on the fully indexed payment? QQ loans ARE NOT allowed to have any proof of income information or have to go full doc

So, let's talk about the mortgage professional. Does that include the old Money Store, Ameriquest, Greenpoint people and on and on and on ad infinitum?

Now, if a loan is originated through a wholesale broker, doesn't it still ultimately have to be underwritten by a WORLD UNDERWRITER? They and only they have the power to decline the loan. That includes accessing ALPS to see how many time the borrower has been refi'd, the history of their credit, debt ratios, etc are STATED at previously (since we all know that World loans were given on COMMON SENSE UNDERWRITING). Even if common sense did not include the common sense to know that if you allow someone to state what they earn and what they are worth they will "inflate" it if they know they are going to get the loan? Come on, doing loans is not rocket science. IF the job description only calls for someone that has a high school diploma and a year of experience... Doesn't it makes sense that anyone with a high school diploma could probably do the math to figure out what they needed to say... Heck no, I'm not an appraiser or an underwriter but I will say that at least appraisers do have some education and some pretty strict regulation on their trade. Too bad they have to bow down to the middle management to "adjust" the appraisals. And the underwriters being "set-up" by the middle and upper management in being provided loan packaging that are "adjusted" before they see them. And since no one is verifying the income and asset information (QQ)... Well, you see its a tidy little system. Add to that the borrowers who are inflating their income without really understanding how the product works even if it is being explained must of them are just nodding in agreeance so that they can get on with their lives. SOOOO, how do we fix it? Oh, it quite simple. Really. Can we have a discussion on what we can do to make this all better?

califonia native in anywhere, California said: Can we have a discussion on what we can do to make this all better?

That horse left the barn back in 2003. Sorry.

Presley Elvis in New Hill, North Carolina said: I am very serious about starting a Union. I am looking into the legal ramifications, but I need help and input from you guys. Lets start a separate website for one. Secondly, we could get ACORN or another non-proftit organization to help us voice our concerns. We could hit the steets, get air time on the news and create a never seen before view of the average working mortgage career employee point of view. We know first hand that the fed changes, the congressional meddling, and the stock rising firings are nothing more than smoke and mirrors. Increasing FHA does nothing for the big picture. Tightening credit on good borrowers is killing the final group of consumers still willing to invest in the housing market. There are answers to get the mortgage market moving again. Ask a Loan Officer, he will tell you.

I think starting something that would protect the employees rights would be a good thing as I agree the cards are stacked to the banks interest mostly. The employee has no rights in many cases and are easily munipulated by management. Then you could discuss favortism and all sorts of inequalities. But many people that take severance packages will be hesitant to do too much unless it's a general action to protect mortgage employees overall so as not to indicate any specific company. Just an opinion.

califonia native in anywhere, California said:

From what you say here and from other posts the California area must have done things differently than my area. The clients employment had to make sense in comparison to his pay or it was denied. Salary.com, driving the business, and many checks and balances were completed to make sure everything made sense. I saw things loosen up a little after the merger and it seemed the WB transactions got through a little easier at times than the World transactions. But the back office was tough on justifying the transaction as accurate before it was approved and the low REO ratio's in our area proved our due diligence. I am still a firm believer in the PAP loan as a safe and necessary alternate in our economy to help people keep their homes. But the loan doesn't exist anymore thanks to pressure from the press and WB dropping it. The elimination of the PAP also eliminated the need for the World employees and that is why there are so many more lay offs comming up now. I doub't there will be many World employees left when it's all said and done.

califonia native in anywhere, California said: So, let's talk about the mortgage professional. Does that include the old Money Store, Ameriquest, Greenpoint people and on and on and on ad infinitum?

Now, if a loan is originated through a wholesale broker, doesn't it still ultimately have to be underwritten by a WORLD UNDERWRITER? They and only they have the power to decline the loan. That includes accessing ALPS to see how many time the borrower has been refi'd, the history of their credit, debt ratios, etc are STATED at previously (since we all know that World loans were given on COMMON SENSE UNDERWRITING). Even if common sense did not include the common sense to know that if you allow someone to state what they earn and what they are worth they will "inflate" it if they know they are going to get the loan? Come on, doing loans is not rocket science. IF the job description only calls for someone that has a high school diploma and a year of experience... Doesn't it makes sense that anyone with a high school diploma could probably do the math to figure out what they needed to say... Heck no, I'm not an appraiser or an underwriter but I will say that at least appraisers do have some education and some pretty strict regulation on their trade. Too bad they have to bow down to the middle management to "adjust" the appraisals. And the underwriters being "set-up" by the middle and upper management in being provided loan packaging that are "adjusted" before they see them. And since no one is verifying the income and asset information (QQ)... Well, you see its a tidy little system.

California Native - you do not know what you are talking about. Congratulations.

Nasty Wach in Miami, Florida said: at the time the CLO position was not eliminated but some employees were given a chance to become a MCB, mortgage consultant in the branch. The positions were essentially the same. We were still operating as 2 entities, World and Wach. Once they moved over to a wach branch as an MCB they were no longer eligible for enhanced severance. the layoffs didn't begin until about 9 or 10 months later for the CLOs.

They still should be eligible for the World severence package since their hire date was prior to 10/1/06. They should appeal if they don't get it.

The elimination of the PAP also eliminated the need for the World employees and that is why there are so many more lay offs comming up now. I doub't there will be many World employees left when it's all said and done.

You're right. There haven't been any World employees for some time. BECAUSE IT IS WACHOVIA! I don't know what area you are in because you don't say but certainly there are a lot of PAP loans in California that are not going to be paid back. I am not saying that PAP doesn't have a place but it certainly isn't good for everyone. Probably not the majority of the people that it was "selected" for. Here's a riddle for you. Why does Alan Greenspan say he "selected" to have a 30 year fixed rate loan on his property(ies)?

Let me ask you something else? Do you have any idea what percentage of Wachovia's total revenues the mortgage division brings in? Knowing that might put this all in perspective for you.

BigFire in Lisbon, Portugal said:

BigFire, Portugal or wherever you are. You know, it is easy to say na,na you don't know what you're talking about. What part of what I said do you specifically disagree with? Please resist the temptation to respond with "all of it" and try to respond as though you actually have an intelligent understanding of what has transpired and where we are headed and what we can do to help the folks with these products, short of bailing them out. If you did a loan, underwrote a loan or did an appraisal as a World employee than you have a duty in trying to help those that are in perilous financial situations.

Nameless - more than a number in Wishing I was in the, Virgin Islands, U.S. said: I think starting something that would protect the employees rights would be a good thing as I agree the cards are stacked to the banks interest mostly. The employee has no rights in many cases and are easily munipulated by management. Then you could discuss favortism and all sorts of inequalities. But many people that take severance packages will be hesitant to do too much unless it's a general action to protect mortgage employees overall so as not to indicate any specific company. Just an opinion.

Nameless: Did you see the post I made about the organizations that you touted? Did you go and check out the Websites? Unionize the banking industry? How would that work? How would the originators be trained and compensated? Journey level union workers have apprenticeships, experience requirements, etc.

califonia native in anywhere, California said: BigFire, Portugal or wherever you are. You know, it is easy to say na,na you don't know what you're talking about. What part of what I said do you specifically disagree with? Please resist the temptation to respond with "all of it" and try to respond as though you actually have an intelligent understanding of what has transpired and where we are headed and what we can do to help the folks with these products, short of bailing them out. If you did a loan, underwrote a loan or did an appraisal as a World employee than you have a duty in trying to help those that are in perilous financial situations.

Are you kidding me....people are struggling in any loan product, not just the PAP. Have you read about the Fannie and Freddie issues? If I lost my job or had a "life event", I would prefer the PAP since it's designed to give the option of a minimum payment that ultimately could save my home. And, because it's an adjustable rate mortgage, the rate has been going down!

califonia native in anywhere, California said: BigFire, Portugal or wherever you are. You know, it is easy to say na,na you don't know what you're talking about. What part of what I said do you specifically disagree with? Please resist the temptation to respond with "all of it" and try to respond as though you actually have an intelligent understanding of what has transpired and where we are headed and what we can do to help the folks with these products, short of bailing them out. If you did a loan, underwrote a loan or did an appraisal as a World employee than you have a duty in trying to help those that are in perilous financial situations.

As a World (now WB) employee appraiser, I completed appraisals for a living. What exactly do you mean that I "have a duty in trying to help those that are in perilous financial situations"? My job is to report the market value for the real property. My job has nothing to do with those people's personal lives. I'm a bit confused.

There is no question that trying to put together a loan union is quite impossible. Just a comment made in jest. As far as severance packages go, I guess that is all in the eye of the beholder. My main issue has to do with the top dogs who had the ability and voice to do something about the bubble before it had to come to this. At closer look, it almost seems sinister the way this is playing out. Tax payers are going to be using federal funds to bail out Mortgage companies that lent SISA deals to borrowers who did not pay taxes. Kind of ironic. I know first hand that the major layoffs will be from the west and will transfer cuts in ops on the east coast. My heart goes out to all of you who will be laid off. If you are like me and have more than 15 years in the industry, it is not a simple matter finding "other" employment. It is a hard reality finding yourself with out any marketable skills other than the mortgage industry. The only advice I can give myself and others is to become FHA pros. Learn all the ins and outs you can and try and work within the government program sector. Whether you are an underwriter (get your DE) or processor to closer, learn the FHA stacking order and get going. For the guys and gals on the front lines/production. Promote yourself as the FHA experts. The pluses there are you are not hampered by declining markets, easier approval/credit standards, decent pricing, and salable loans that are less risky for the company. IF you can bear with the long processing time (untrained staff and badly structured loan) are clogging up the system. This should improve. Now, if you can survive the cuts and stay on at Wachovia, god bless. If you do not make the cut, go somewhere that promotes FHA loans and run circles around Wachovia. Kicking your old companies tail is always a great motivator. Good luck to all of you. This will probably be the last week for most of us.

FlyOnTheWall in Secret said: They still should be eligible for the World severence package since their hire date was prior to 10/1/06. They should appeal if they don't get it.

they can't get it because they switched over officially to wach. If they had stayed put, they could have.

califonia native in anywhere, California said: The elimination of the PAP also eliminated the need for the World employees and that is why there are so many more lay offs comming up now. I doub't there will be many World employees left when it's all said and done.

You're right. There haven't been any World employees for some time. BECAUSE IT IS WACHOVIA! I don't know what area you are in because you don't say but certainly there are a lot of PAP loans in California that are not going to be paid back. I am not saying that PAP doesn't have a place but it certainly isn't good for everyone. Probably not the majority of the people that it was "selected" for. Here's a riddle for you. Why does Alan Greenspan say he "selected" to have a 30 year fixed rate loan on his property(ies)?

Let me ask you something else? Do you have any idea what percentage of Wachovia's total revenues the mortgage division brings in? Knowing that might put this all in perspective for you.

Alan Greenspan had a PAP loan, World had numerous presentations on just that. You seem to be very angry & I'm sorry for that. I sold and have the PAP loan for over fourteen years. I stand behind the loan. Yes the company is Wachovia, but does that mean that it is okay to treat the everyone poorly? We are more than numbers and saying having some sort of employment protection is not a bad idea, call it what you might. I don't know if something could be organized or not but I do agree that something organized to protect the employee from corporate abuse would be a good thing. When I was younger I remember when there were no laws for sexual or age discrimination so who knows what the future laws might bring. But if we accept bad behavior & dis-respect as justified then that is what we will get.

This is to the other post, just so you know there are many employees outside of appraisal that are college degreed and have numerous other certifications and licenses.

califonia native in anywhere, California said: Nameless: Did you see the post I made about the organizations that you touted? Did you go and check out the Websites? Unionize the banking industry? How would that work? How would the originators be trained and compensated? Journey level union workers have apprenticeships, experience requirements, etc.

What organizations did I tout???

Nameless - more than a number in Wishing I was in the, Virgin Islands, U.S. said: What organizations did I tout???

Plus Wachovia is the 4th largest bank holding company in the US with $706 Billion in assets and approximately 110K employees. I knew my company stats but who says bigger is always better???

California native, I'm curious, are you legacy World or Wachovia??

Presley Elvis in New Hill, North Carolina said: There is no question that trying to put together a loan union is quite impossible. Just a comment made in jest. As far as severance packages go, I guess that is all in the eye of the beholder. My main issue has to do with the top dogs who had the ability and voice to do something about the bubble before it had to come to this. At closer look, it almost seems sinister the way this is playing out. Tax payers are going to be using federal funds to bail out Mortgage companies that lent SISA deals to borrowers who did not pay taxes. Kind of ironic. I know first hand that the major layoffs will be from the west and will transfer cuts in ops on the east coast. My heart goes out to all of you who will be laid off. If you are like me and have more than 15 years in the industry, it is not a simple matter finding "other" employment. It is a hard reality finding yourself with out any marketable skills other than the mortgage industry. The only advice I can give myself and others is to become FHA pros. Learn all the ins and outs you can and try and work within the government program sector. Whether you are an underwriter (get your DE) or processor to closer, learn the FHA stacking order and get going. For the guys and gals on the front lines/production. Promote yourself as the FHA experts. The pluses there are you are not hampered by declining markets, easier approval/credit standards, decent pricing, and salable loans that are less risky for the company.

Too bad you were jesting, I hope there will be some protection for all corporate employees against bad business practices. I never want to feel like a moving target again at the mercy of reactionary management decisions that put people at risk of loosing everything. The stakes are just too high for the employee in this environment. Upper management walks away with millions if they are dismissed, the average person does not.

Nasty Wach in Miami, Florida said: they can't get it because they switched over officially to wach. If they had stayed put, they could have.

I don't believe that this is true. It has to do with your hire date. Check with HR.

FYI

Alan Greenspan: ARMed and Dangerous
The Federal Reserve chairman's weird affection for adjustable-rate mortgages.
By Daniel Gross
Posted Friday, Feb. 27, 2004, at 4:47 PM ET

Fed chairman or personal finance maven?

There are many articles on line about Greenspan and his favorable opinion on adjustable mortgages.

Nameless - more than a number in Wishing I was in the, Virgin Islands, U.S. said: Alan Greenspan had a PAP loan, World had numerous presentations on just that. You seem to be very angry & I'm sorry for that. I sold and have the PAP loan for over fourteen years. I stand behind the loan. Yes the company is Wachovia, but does that mean that it is okay to treat the everyone poorly? We are more than numbers and saying having some sort of employment protection is not a bad idea, call it what you might. I don't know if something could be organized or not but I do agree that something organized to protect the employee from corporate abuse would be a good thing. When I was younger I remember when there were no laws for sexual or age discrimination so who knows what the future laws might bring. But if we accept bad behavior & dis-respect as justified then that is what we will get.

This is to the other post, just so you know there are many employees outside of appraisal that are college degreed and have numerous other certifications and licenses.