Media consultant - Any information?

Pssssssst, Misu. The "stamp your feet" noise you heard were reps leaving for better jobs! Repeat after me, Ok? "Reps leaving for better jobs!" Say that a few times and perhaps your ambition gene (if you have one) will turn on, because then you will realize why very very few successful reps stay. I repeat- successful reps. The number of successful reps who leave actually equal the number of reps who couldn't sell the product. Spin that one for the newbies reading this board.

Successful reps don't get "screwed" by negativity. Are reps stupid for not slurping down the Kool-Aid? They don't get "screwed" cupcake. They wake up! They get their resume built up and leave for greener pastures. Who in their right mind wants a job that demands 70 hours a week, when you can make more money working less time somewhere else? Yes, YB calls that a lazy rep, but the rest of the civilized world will call you guys morons and us intelligent! lol.

If there is anyone reading our discussion, notice how Misu is spinning by bashing reps who couldn't sell this outdated product, and then bash the former rep by claiming the rep is posting sour grapes as if they were fired. Misu has yet to accept that I left on my own accord and acknowledges the book is trash. Anyone leaving YB is considered a negative person, despite other realities. If you want tricks to get you ahead, have no issues trying to contact me. If your idea is to make quick money, build your resume and find success elsewhere, feel free to leave a message. If you're a career person and wish to stay with YB, don't ever complain about the job. Offer solutions, because these managers are mindless for the most part. Anyone complaining is thought of as "negative" (i.e. He/she knows this book is trash and might leave soon), so you will be micromanaged until you want to throw up.

It just amaazes me of the amount of hostility and negativity is on this website. And of course, if any one such as myself posts positive things about YB, some of the morons claim it is an "automatic response" or brainwashing or even worse, the dreaded kool aid drinker. When you disagree with them they get totally bent out of shape. For any new people looking at this job, every office has losers like this. Bitter people that are so angry from their experience that they cannot move on with their lives. Some of them were fired from YB, some of them, like the prior post, left on their own accord. Usually they are bieng chased out the door when they leave. YB has 6,000 employees. These people make up only a very small percent of them. There are many people like myself that make an excellent income at YB and do not work 70 hrs a week as some Bozo suggested. YB is not without it's problems. No company this size is. The yellow page business has changed. The directory does not work as well as it use to but our sales aids indicate this. Each year we will be selling more internet and less print. As far as commissions, in my office we have had Web Reach sales as high as 20k per month. Try selling the print for that price. This is a good opportunity if you are a thick skinned self starter. Managment will help you but they won't do your job for you. There are good and bad in every business. If you say anything good on this board, some of these idiots act like the crazed villagers getting ready to burn Frankenstien. Anyone serious about the job needs to go through the interview process. If they like you they will put you on a ride day where you can pick the brain of one of the reps. Of you don't want to believe what I say, certainly don't listen to the rantings of these losers. I have never seen a group like this on any board.

Misu, you must have short term memory. I remember reading a post from you to Dirty Deals regarding your lack of interest in pursuing any further reportoire that reflects on the negativity of said YB. Tsk, tsk. Short term memory could be the reason you keep your brain attached to the company. I don't forget the crap they put me through, it was not pleasant. However; that being said, I don't forget anything that is counter productive to my well being.
Misu, please stop your disertation, you will not get a Ph.D for your observation, lack of observation, scrutiny, etc.

Give it up darling. We all wish you would.

Dirty Deals in New York, New York said: Pssssssst, Misu. The "stamp your feet" noise you heard were reps leaving for better jobs! Repeat after me, Ok? "Reps leaving for better jobs!" Say that a few times and perhaps your ambition gene (if you have one) will turn on, because then you will realize why very very few successful reps stay. I repeat- successful reps. The number of successful reps who leave actually equal the number of reps who couldn't sell the product. Spin that one for the newbies reading this board.

Successful reps don't get "screwed" by negativity. Are reps stupid for not slurping down the Kool-Aid? They don't get "screwed" cupcake. They wake up! They get their resume built up and leave for greener pastures. Who in their right mind wants a job that demands 70 hours a week, when you can make more money working less time somewhere else? Yes, YB calls that a lazy rep, but the rest of the civilized world will call you guys morons and us intelligent! lol.

If there is anyone reading our discussion, notice how Misu is spinning by bashing reps who couldn't sell this outdated product, and then bash the former rep by claiming the rep is posting sour grapes as if they were fired. Misu has yet to accept that I left on my own accord and acknowledges the book is trash. Anyone leaving YB is considered a negative person, despite other realities. If you want tricks to get you ahead, have no issues trying to contact me. If your idea is to make quick money, build your resume and find success elsewhere, feel free to leave a message. If you're a career person and wish to stay with YB, don't ever complain about the job. Offer solutions, because these managers are mindless for the most part. Anyone complaining is thought of as "negative" (i.e. He/she knows this book is trash and might leave soon), so you will be micromanaged until you want to throw up.

2 reps have left in the past month and 3 more are going this month. Is management concerned? No!

Misu in anywhere said: It just amaazes me of the amount of hostility and negativity is on this website. And of course, if any one such as myself posts positive things about YB, some of the morons claim it is an "automatic response" or brainwashing or even worse, the dreaded kool aid drinker. ...... YB has 6,000 employees. These people make up only a very small percent of them. There are many people like myself that make an excellent income .... YB is not without it's problems. No company this size is. The yellow page business has changed. ....The directory does not work as well as it use to but our sales aids indicate this. Each year we will be selling more internet and less print. As far as commissions, in my office we have had Web Reach sales as high as 20k per month. Try selling the print for that price. This is a good opportunity if you are a thick skinned self starter. Managment will help you but they won't do your job for you. .... I have never seen a group like this on any board.

A few questions/comments on what you mentioned

1. If your own sales aids indicate that the book does not work as well as it used to- have rates been cut? Cause that's the line we were taught to use on the competition.

2. How many people worked in the company in the last 12 months to get to the current 6,000 employees? my Guess- around 9,000.

3. How are those web reach sales renewing? I had an attorney- we started at #300/month for 3 months to see how it worked. It took 7 months for them to use up his "budget"- why should he renew?

4. As I have stated before- short term this can be a fine job that you can make decent money. Long term- this is a very shaky place for a career.

5. Yes many companies have problems... How many have lost over 80% of their stock value in 15 months?

I worked here for a while- made decent money, glad I gained the sales experience I did, and was able to move on to a better position elsewhere

Here is a site I came across on the web- please note... I have no relation to this person/ but I did find it interesting.

www.lifeaftertheyellowpages.com/

I love when Misu refers to me as a "Bozo" and what not, lol. You're the clown here, cupcake. I will bet my left leg I make more than you do in 3 work days than you make in 2 weeks at YB. Don't get personal or I will request your email and then proceed to break your heart by sending you my W-2. Want to make personal? I will show you who the "loser" in this battle is, kid.

I am a realist and this board is for information purposes. Sorry to burst your Kool-Aid filled bubble, but I don't believe in BS. I'm far from bitter. Who the hell wants to sell yellow pages for the rest of their life? It's a burn out job for 90% of the people going in through those doors. If you can sell, they will burn you out until you're a waste, and then shove you out the door for the next rep. And yes, most sales jobs are like that, but couple that with the constant lies, favoritism, dirtbag clients, and endless hours to prepare accounts and you have a job that is numbing to anyone not prepared for what's coming. Throw in an incompetent, overbearing, micromanaging manager, and you can only imagine what hits you down the road. Great, you're switching to the internet. That's fantastic! It doesn't change a thing. Actually, in the years to come, there will be much more competition from other internet PPC/SEO/SEM companies. Wait until that market saturates the game. Before the internet, yps only had competing books. Soon, it will be competing internet companies by the dozens. I'm sure YB isn't telling you that either lol.

On the positive side, companies love YP reps. YB teaches you to have a work ethic. Man this ship for 2-3 years and people will have instant respect for your selling skills. Get promoted and you can have any sales job you want. That's the ticket to success with YB. If that's your gameplan, and it should be for 90% of those who are hired and want to make serious money, throw in any account you can. Make yourself look like a star and move on to greener pastures.

Dirty
Even though I said I would not repond to you, here goes.
You are the one that made all of this personal. Check the back posts. Now you are threatening me by saying you will request my e-mail? Go right ahead. You prove my point every time you open your mouth. Your anger, finger pointing and general rabble rousing fit the bill perfectly of everything that is wrong in a sales person. I really don't care how much money you make and I hope you make a bundle. Of course, it is very easy to get a blank W2 and type it up. Who cares. You are an angry bitter individual. Did YB do this to you or have you always been like this? I am well aware of the sales opportunities available to sucessful YB reps. I look foward to work every day and enjoy my job. Mast of the people I know do as well. When I shared this site with some people at the office they were as surprised as I was at the amount of negetivity and anger on the board. And it is NOT accurate. You guys are so wacked out with your conspiricy theories. You think that every decision made has sinister ulterior motives. And just to clarify, I am not a cupcake and I am not a kid. In the 12 years I have been with YB you would be surprised what I have accomplished and what my job is. That is why I know that the absurd notins and figures that you and others post are serious BS. Time will tell, but I believe YB will make an extreamly sucessful transition to a full Media advertising company. You can't BS me because I know the gameplans.You only know what you make up. Look back at the comments on this board over the last 7 months. Many people believe the same as I do. This boardos made up primarily of disgruntled former reps, wether they were fired or left on their own accord. I will stay here as a voice of reason for new people looking at the job. I could care less what you think about YB.

blah! blah! blah! This is not objective thinking, it is more ego analysis than I can stomach.

Misu in anywhere said: Dirty
Even though I said I would not repond to you, here goes.
You are the one that made all of this personal. Check the back posts. Now you are threatening me by saying you will request my e-mail? Go right ahead. You prove my point every time you open your mouth. Your anger, finger pointing and general rabble rousing fit the bill perfectly of everything that is wrong in a sales person. I really don't care how much money you make and I hope you make a bundle. Of course, it is very easy to get a blank W2 and type it up. Who cares. You are an angry bitter individual. Did YB do this to you or have you always been like this? I am well aware of the sales opportunities available to sucessful YB reps. I look foward to work every day and enjoy my job. Mast of the people I know do as well. When I shared this site with some people at the office they were as surprised as I was at the amount of negetivity and anger on the board. And it is NOT accurate. You guys are so wacked out with your conspiricy theories. You think that every decision made has sinister ulterior motives. And just to clarify, I am not a cupcake and I am not a kid. In the 12 years I have been with YB you would be surprised what I have accomplished and what my job is. That is why I know that the absurd notins and figures that you and others post are serious BS. Time will tell, but I believe YB will make an extreamly sucessful transition to a full Media advertising company. You can't BS me because I know the gameplans.You only know what you make up. Look back at the comments on this board over the last 7 months. Many people believe the same as I do. This boardos made up primarily of disgruntled former reps, wether they were fired or left on their own accord. I will stay here as a voice of reason for new people looking at the job. I could care less what you think about YB.

I'm just curious- why do you always manage to avoid my objective? fact filled comments?

Guy, really now, you know MISU (must stand for misused) has no real conception of facts. Her ego has been stroked by management and she has an overwhelming desire to please the "gods" she worships. She has a soul like a sponge, no oil cloth to protect her from the crud that is washed over her.

whatdoyouthink in North Carolina said: Yeppers, the prepping stinks, takes way too much time and energy, not to mention the profiles of amer., comparison analysis, etc. are so out dated it is pathetic. Their is no silver lining behind this black cloud of deceit.

This statement clearly is the reason you are not successful at yellowbook, and why you will never be a top performer no matter where you go to work!! No matter what you sell you must go into every sales call with a plan to execute, profiles, comparison ads and your selling skills are only things that are outdated. What is not out dated are the findability worksheets,the competetor book, lead trackers, kuk-balwin(if you even know how to use it effectivly),proven value results, etc. etc. What more do you need? You probaly don't do an effective needs analysis, RoI work through or any steps of the standard steps of a sales call. There is a sale being made on every call... you either sell the customer on one of our three products, or they sell you their "whatever" story and unfortunatly, the customer loses more than you can comprehend and that is opportunity. All you lose is a potential commission and faith in the product beause it has never occured to you that you are the problem.

PLEASE >>>HURRY UP AND QUIT!!!! There are others who would happily take your zone, leads, revenue, Salary, commissions etc.. not to mention your manager time and energy that they could give to someone who deserves it because you Don't.

I am so sick of you complainers everytime I go to the office to turn in my paperwork, you are just sitting there spewing bullcrap!! JUST QUIT AREADY!!

Guy in Ohio in Cleveland, Ohio said: I'm just curious- why do you always manage to avoid my objective? fact filled comments?

What is your objective that i am avoiding?

oh my gosh, baby cakes has a kool aid cake in her freezer, hands it out to every newbie that comes along

Misu in anywhere said: What is your objective that i am avoiding?

One Post I put up earlier in response to one of your posts:

A few questions/comments on what you mentioned

1. If your own sales aids indicate that the book does not work as well as it used to- have rates been cut? Cause that's the line we were taught to use on the competition.

2. How many people worked in the company in the last 12 months to get to the current 6,000 employees? my Guess- around 9,000.

3. How are those web reach sales renewing? I had an attorney- we started at #300/month for 3 months to see how it worked. It took 7 months for them to use up his "budget"- why should he renew?

4. As I have stated before- short term this can be a fine job that you can make decent money. Long term- this is a very shaky place for a career.

5. Yes many companies have problems... How many have lost over 80% of their stock value in 15 months?

Misu in anywhere said: What is your objective that i am avoiding?

Other have included me commenting on what the real growth rate of both the print and online product was this past fiscal year, How "Fastest Growing" IYP is spun.

I guess my facts don't mesh well with your arguement.

babycakes in New York said: This statement clearly is the reason you are not successful at yellowbook, and why you will never be a top performer no matter where you go to work!! No matter what you sell you must go into every sales call with a plan to execute, profiles, comparison ads and your selling skills are only things that are outdated. What is not out dated are the findability worksheets,the competetor book, lead trackers, kuk-balwin(if you even know how to use it effectivly),proven value results, etc. etc. What more do you need? You probaly don't do an effective needs analysis, RoI work through or any steps of the standard steps of a sales call.
I am so sick of you complainers everytime I go to the office to turn in my paperwork, you are just sitting there spewing bullcrap!! JUST QUIT AREADY!!

Findability Worksheets- there are other ways besides Yellowbook, Google and YB.com that a business can be found.

Competetor Books- the fact that most YP people believe this is their main competition is one of the biggest flaws that there is

Lead Tracker- as mentioned before, most calls to here are not customers, and funny, we never got updates in my office after about month 2- why, numbers dropped, wasn't good to show declining numbers

Kuk-Baldwin- I will give you this one, it was one of the best tools there was, but only when used properly, and at the right time.

ROI- in training we were told to ask for a 15% ROI- complete joke for advertising. 100% or more is the Minimum ROI desirable for any advertising.

YB tries to use too many tricks- kinda like smoke and mirrors. If you can't talk to people using common sense, you might get a sale, but you will not build long term relationships.

In training we were told to ask how many "sales" the customer could make out of 10 phone calls received (due to the book) - never mentioning that the 10 phone calls were not qualified leads. ROI is bogus.
I will be honest too, I couldn't sell YB. I didn't believe in it. Can I sell a product I believe in? Absolutely, I have won President's Club with two different organizations, organizations where I respected the product, management, and corporate culture.
I think what people need to consider is whether they believe in yellow pages- not just Yellow Book. If you do, it comes across to the client, if you don't that comes across too.
Bottom line is I felt misled by the management in the recruitment process. The day I started they forgot I was coming in and I sat for 2 hours before a senior rep had pity on me and let me ride with him. Upper management would consistently require ride alongs with you and not show up (causing me to be late for appts)
It It was the worst employment experience of my life.

The local manager didn't return phone calls in anything close to a timely manner (always said he had been out of town), misscheduled appointments consistently, said "tooken" instead of "taken". I passed.

Molly Ringwald in Middletown, New York said: The local manager didn't return phone calls in anything close to a timely manner (always said he had been out of town), misscheduled appointments consistently, said "tooken" instead of "taken". I passed.

If you can't handle someone not returning your call...you made a wise decision, thank you for not waisting our time.

Guy in Ohio in Cleveland, Ohio said: Findability Worksheets- there are other ways besides Yellowbook, Google and YB.com that a business can be found.

Competetor Books- the fact that most YP people believe this is their main competition is one of the biggest flaws that there is

Lead Tracker- as mentioned before, most calls to here are not customers, and funny, we never got updates in my office after about month 2- why, numbers dropped, wasn't good to show declining numbers

Kuk-Baldwin- I will give you this one, it was one of the best tools there was, but only when used properly, and at the right time.

ROI- in training we were told to ask for a 15% ROI- complete joke for advertising. 100% or more is the Minimum ROI desirable for any advertising.

YB tries to use too many tricks- kinda like smoke and mirrors. If you can't talk to people using common sense, you might get a sale, but you will not build long term relationships.

Any one asking for a 15% ROI is a fool, yellowpages in general probaly have one of the highest conversion rates there are but that is just not realistic. I put together programs for new clients that will deliver 1-2 new customers a week...sometimes you can get that done with $400-4500 a month and sometimes it takes more, hell sometimes you can get that done with a starter package and a starter with webreach. That is how you build relationship. I don't go prepped with a full page on everycall, you have to use your own brain and figure this out, not go on what other tell you. Yes, Print useage is down but so is newpaper and they still have subscibers. You have to sell on the real facts, my recommendations include webreach first, yellowbook.com second and print third. if my manger does not like this.........oh well, but that has not given me any problems yet!!!

Babycakes-

I'm just curious how long have you been there?

Guy in Ohio in Cleveland, Ohio said: Babycakes-

I'm just curious how long have you been there?

Two Years

You missed my point Babycakes. That's my responsibility, let me try again (that's what I get for trying to be brief).

It wasn't just about someone returning your call. It was about someone saying "should you not hear from me by X please call me on my cell". Then not hearing from that person, then getting no response from them after repeated follow up calls and emails. And always justifying it with "Sorry, I've been out of town". Yeah, no. That cycle repeated itself more than once. Now in the business world we live in, that you live in, that I've been in and around my entire life, others might call that unprofessional, unorganized, overwhelmed, inept etc. Not the kind of thing you read about in a Jack Welch book when he discusses good management skills. At minimum I'd bet a buck most would agree that it's a red flag. That coupled with other incidents (poor use of language, mischeduled and poorly scheduled appointments, losing contact info etc) meant a whole whopping bunch of red flags. Could those things have been overlooked? Perhaps, but I'll pass. I would argue that they potentially point directly to personality traits and behavior of that manager that you will see down the road. My bet is those things were not a "fluke". They just never are, in my experience.

Have a great weekend!

babycakes in New York said: Two Years

Good- my honest advice- take what you have learned, and go apply it somewhere else.

there is a lot you can learn about sales at YB... but trust me, there are many better jobs out there.

The one I have now- I never would have been hired for had it not been for my YP experience.

But in the day of $4/gallon gas you are spending a lot of money driving around ( and taxes don't cover it all)

When I go see customers- my company picks up the tab, including travel and meals. The contact management system I have is about ten times better than ice will ever be. I work for a monthl publication- so I talk to my customers much more frequently, which makes it easier to build that trust and relationship.

I make great money, work hard, and have a lot less stress in my life.

This is what YB is for- gain experience, and find a better job.

Molly Ringwald in Middletown, New York said: The local manager didn't return phone calls in anything close to a timely manner (always said he had been out of town), misscheduled appointments consistently, said "tooken" instead of "taken". I passed.

Good for you Molly. You'll find something much better!

babycakes in New York said: If you can't handle someone not returning your call...you made a wise decision, thank you for not waisting our time.

Not very nice... she made a good decision if the alternative meant working with people like you.

Don't you just love working with YB people, they are perfectionist when it comes to backstabbing. Go Molly, Go!
Anything is better than YB, doesn't take much to realize it is a bull s--- arena and always will be. Go give the customers some killer questions and you are sure to land the account or renew, ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmh, I think, I know, I am smarter than this crap.

By the way, Baby Cakes sounds a bit like a pole dancer's name, food for thought.

whatdoyouthink in North Carolina said: By the way, Baby Cakes sounds a bit like a pole dancer's name, food for thought.

Way to prequalify, just another reason you should not only look for a new job but maybe a career change.

whatdoyouthink in North Carolina said: Don't you just love working with YB people, they are perfectionist when it comes to backstabbing. Go Molly, Go!
Anything is better than YB, doesn't take much to realize it is a bull s--- arena and always will be. Go give the customers some killer questions and you are sure to land the account or renew, ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmh, I think, I know, I am smarter than this crap.

Maybe its true????

whatdoyouthink in North Carolina said: Don't you just love working with YB people, they are perfectionist when it comes to backstabbing. Go Molly, Go!
Anything is better than YB, doesn't take much to realize it is a bull s--- arena and always will be. Go give the customers some killer questions and you are sure to land the account or renew, ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmh, I think, I know, I am smarter than this crap.

Molly certainly sounds savvy and her professionial expectations are more than fair.

LMFAO @ you Misu. There you go with the word "bitter" and what not. The word is called arrogance. If you can't read it, perhaps you recognize it in another format- obnoxious. I don't have any bitterness at all towards YB. I am grateful for the chance they presented me, but I am not full of sh*t like you are. That's the difference between you and I. And please with the BS that most of the people in your office enjoy their job LMFAO. That's a pleasant fairy tale. As for my "conspiracy theories" the company HAS lost over 30% of their sales reps since the inception of the 24 back in 1/2007. Now that they are down to reasonable numbers, the word is they discontinued it. You better pray the company makes a successful transition to the internet, because if they don't, there will be a ton of broken hearts. Just like your heart is aching everytime you look at the company's stock price, I'm sure. I don't need to fake a W-2. I will leave the faking to reps like yourself, who are still selling one huge bag of BS called print yellow pages by selling laughably bogus ROI figures off comical RCF data. LMFAO @ you knowing the gameplan. I'm sure Mr. Walsh keeps you fully updated on any and all future decisions LOL!

The truth hurts, but reality should be the main point of this board.

Guy in Ohio in Cleveland, Ohio said: One Post I put up earlier in response to one of your posts:

A few questions/comments on what you mentioned

1. If your own sales aids indicate that the book does not work as well as it used to- have rates been cut? Cause that's the line we were taught to use on the competition.

2. How many people worked in the company in the last 12 months to get to the current 6,000 employees? my Guess- around 9,000.

3. How are those web reach sales renewing? I had an attorney- we started at #300/month for 3 months to see how it worked. It took 7 months for them to use up his "budget"- why should he renew?

4. As I have stated before- short term this can be a fine job that you can make decent money. Long term- this is a very shaky place for a career.

5. Yes many companies have problems... How many have lost over 80% of their stock value in 15 months?

Guy in Ohio
You make some good points unlike some of the posters here. I am not tying to be vauge but some of the direct answers here are things that we would not want the competition reading.

1)Market plans in most areas have become more generous. We are still by far much less expensive than the utility. Reps objectives have also been adjusted on print in most markets.

2)Turnover has been anissue. 1st we lost some of the real losers thanks to the 24. However, even when a few non performers leave it can also cause the exodous of some that you don't want to loose. There are many training initiatives in place right now. More important, management is being held accountable for each and every new hire that turns over.

3) I am surpirosed about the MD on W/R not renewing. We have had MD and other spending many times that renew.

4) It is not an esy job. However, in my office for example out of 24 reps, 5 have been there near the 20 year mark and 6 are between 5-15 years. I know of other offices with good longevity.

5) The stock situation is bad.

Dirty Deals in New York, New York said: LMFAO @ you Misu. There you go with the word "bitter" and what not. The word is called arrogance. If you can't read it, perhaps you recognize it in another format- obnoxious. I don't have any bitterness at all towards YB. I am grateful for the chance they presented me, but I am not full of sh*t like you are. That's the difference between you and I. And please with the BS that most of the people in your office enjoy their job LMFAO. That's a pleasant fairy tale. As for my "conspiracy theories" the company HAS lost over 30% of their sales reps since the inception of the 24 back in 1/2007. Now that they are down to reasonable numbers, the word is they discontinued it. You better pray the company makes a successful transition to the internet, because if they don't, there will be a ton of broken hearts. Just like your heart is aching everytime you look at the company's stock price, I'm sure. I don't need to fake a W-2. I will leave the faking to reps like yourself, who are still selling one huge bag of BS called print yellow pages by selling laughably bogus ROI figures off comical RCF data. LMFAO @ you knowing the gameplan. I'm sure Mr. Walsh keeps you fully updated on any and all future decisions LOL!

The truth hurts, but reality should be the main point of this board.

Your posts are objective truth? They are not accurate or objective. They also reek of anger and hostitity.

Guy in Ohio in Cleveland, Ohio said: Findability Worksheets- there are other ways besides Yellowbook, Google and YB.com that a business can be found.

Competetor Books- the fact that most YP people believe this is their main competition is one of the biggest flaws that there is

Lead Tracker- as mentioned before, most calls to here are not customers, and funny, we never got updates in my office after about month 2- why, numbers dropped, wasn't good to show declining numbers

Kuk-Baldwin- I will give you this one, it was one of the best tools there was, but only when used properly, and at the right time.

ROI- in training we were told to ask for a 15% ROI- complete joke for advertising. 100% or more is the Minimum ROI desirable for any advertising.

YB tries to use too many tricks- kinda like smoke and mirrors. If you can't talk to people using common sense, you might get a sale, but you will not build long term relationships.

With the findability worksheets you do have to include the competing directories print and online product and other types of direct advertising they may be doing. This has become a great ICR that even a brand new rep can use to help them get an appointment. It is non threatening and does show that the rep did a little bit of homework.

I am intrested to know who you feel our main competiton is if it is not the local utility book? Of course each day the online competitors become more direct competiton but in the print world they are our competitors. Just look at the mogration of ads in just about any market that we have gone into during the last 8 years and you will see many of their advertisers switched over to our directory.

Lead tracker once again sounds like a local management issue if they are not giving you a monthly update on the numbers. Sales aids are created after the 2nd or 3rd month with boxes on the bottom to fill in each month for continued call counts. It is a pain in the neck to pull and I guess

Ohio
continued
they were not doing it. Effective yesterday, reps now have the ability to go on the vendors websites and pull the numbers themselves. It is that important. Sometimes call wane off and sometimes they do not. But as you know, wether it is our book or a competitor, the numbers dip when another book is delivered but will perk back up again. We bring our advertisers a complete detailed list of callers each month. It is totally trasparent and we have excellent luck with them. When they see exactly who called they realize that they are in fact making money.
ROI- you should ask for 100% return. This has been an issue with the training dept. When a new rep comes out of training it is one of the 1st things that we show them because they are trained to use 15%.
We have always trained reps to use common sense and logic, mixed with emotion and word picture stories to get a sale.If any kind of smoke and mirrors are used and the customer finds out, you are finished.

REPLY to MISU -

You make some good points as well- and I think a good debate is helpful to people deciding wether to work here or not as well. You seem smart, and I can see why you have had some sucsess there.

I am not using quotes from your post cause it will make my post too long- but you did ask- if not the local utility book- who is the competion?

I think that's one of the Biggest flaws in YP advertising and thinking- you base your competition off of the other local YP books.

Your main competition is ANYWHERE that customer could put an advertising dollar. Please save the spin on how YP is the "anchor" and the pros and cons of other advertising. Also don't get into how many MORE customers- for most businesses there is a law of diminishing returns. Don't get me wrong your mega lawyers, doctors, New Car Dealers etc, can always take on more business, but a Chiropractor with a full schedule, roofer who is contsantly busy, or tow truck guy who already works 15 hours a day will not see enough benefit from addtional calls.

If a customer is advertising in the newspaper, radio, TV, direct mail, shared mail, coupon books, flyers, whatever- THAT IS YOUR COMPETEION. looking at it strictly against the competing YP- is a very narrow mind set.

The 2nd point I will address is the call counts. Now this might have been market specific- but the reason our counts were never updated is cause about 90% of them went down, and continued to fall. A customer might have been getting 60 calls the first 2 months- but it would be down to 25 in months 3-8. Management knew what they were doing in not updating us- they even danced around the question when asked in meetings.

Yes we could pull individual customer leads-and I would for my customers- but they were kinda scary at times.

Guy knows what he is talking about, obviously. I was never this politically correct. Meters are a sham. If they were so effective, YB would sell them for free and advise everyone to put it into their ad. When I was there, YB would only allow meters in dominant ads for bigger headings. The reason is quite obvious. There is a reason why yellow pages are the #1 source for leads, Guy. It's because those advertisers are still stuck in the 80's and YB has effectively frightened them into that "fear of loss" mentality they slam into their heads year after year. They might have other successful platforms to advertise in, yet they stay with the dinosaur. Going after new businesses and younger business owners is also a favorite of the YP game. These guys don't know any better. Fill them up with enough rhetoric and it's like taking candy from a baby.

Selling this product is proof one is a good salesperson. How many times did you leave feeling sorry for the renewal, knowing full well you just wasted their money? I can't count how many reps left because they were excellent reps, but knew the product they sold was garbage. I will never forget the looks on the faces of all my renewals when I tried going back to them the following year. You shrug your shoulders and try to swim through the nonsense and the truth. Most of it was truth. The book didn't bring back their investment. The funny part was the advertisers knew you sold them, so they weren't angry. When a client just wants less, they negotiate. When a client doesn't negotiate and goes to zero, you know the product doesn't work. Never did any of my renewals get saved. Kudos to those who have found people gullible enough to believe the book works or have sold yourself to them enough so they trust you, regardless of whether the product works or not.

Can you not spell?

Ohio
We do tend to comapre ourselves to "similars" such as utlilitu books, other directive type ads. But every dollar that a prospect has in all the other types of advertising is a doilar commited to another budget and also results that they may be getting. The more sucessful reps do realize this and try to be an all around advertising consultant. One of the best tools that we have to help with this is the SEMPO study. This shows that the vast majority of money that advertisers have been cutting back on and putting online comes from magazines, newspapers, direct mail. Yellow Pages is the least with only a 5% cut compared to 20% for magazines. If you go on Googles Ad Word help site they also have a study showing that the best value (other than SEM of course) is Yellow Pages. Average cost per customer bieng $20 versus magazines at $80. It is a great tool and can be found under ther help section in adwords.
Call counts do diminish many times. But if we are giving them a total call count over a period of time and do the ROI and compare it to the ROI that you did with them at the time of the sale they will be OK with the declining count. ROI done at the time of sale is usually very similar to their true call counts if you set the expecation properly. Even with the decline in print usage, if a rep utilized the correct market plans, gave to customer the best value possible and did not get greedy, they should be able to show a profit.

Misu-

You seem rather intelligent and also, from an earlier post, where you noted that half your office has 5 years or more experience, your situation is probably different from most.

I was in a newer office- one that transitions from TWP, and grew. It was highly overstaffed, very dog eat dog... what have you done for me this week.

In a situation like that - and where you know and trust the other reps, its' easier to succeed. I do believe that in many offices- and from keeping in touch with the people from my taining class- for 90% of the people- this is a short term job.

I will also add- that 50% of the people (at least from my office and training) should never have been hired in the first place.

whatdoyouthink in North Carolina said: Can you not spell?

this is a forum, not a spelling bee,!!

whatdoyouthink in North Carolina said: oh my gosh, baby cakes has a kool aid cake in her freezer, hands it out to every newbie that comes along

I don't tend to talk to many, let alone newbies, to be frank...i go to work to make money, not friends!!!

Guy in Ohio in Cleveland, Ohio said: Misu-

You seem rather intelligent and also, from an earlier post, where you noted that half your office has 5 years or more experience, your situation is probably different from most.

I was in a newer office- one that transitions from TWP, and grew. It was highly overstaffed, very dog eat dog... what have you done for me this week.

In a situation like that - and where you know and trust the other reps, its' easier to succeed. I do believe that in many offices- and from keeping in touch with the people from my taining class- for 90% of the people- this is a short term job.

I will also add- that 50% of the people (at least from my office and training) should never have been hired in the first place.

I would agree I have seen a lot of bad hires!!!! Turn over is high, but most sales positions in marketing and advertising are high...the ones that stick it out, usually make out!!

Misu in anywhere said: Ohio
We do tend to comapre ourselves to "similars" such as utlilitu books, other directive type ads. But every dollar that a prospect has in all the other types of advertising is a doilar commited to another budget and also results that they may be getting. The more sucessful reps do realize this and try to be an all around advertising consultant. One of the best tools that we have to help with this is the SEMPO study. This shows that the vast majority of money that advertisers have been cutting back on and putting online comes from magazines, newspapers, direct mail. Yellow Pages is the least with only a 5% cut compared to 20% for magazines. If you go on Googles Ad Word help site they also have a study showing that the best value (other than SEM of course) is Yellow Pages. Average cost per customer bieng $20 versus magazines at $80. It is a great tool and can be found under ther help section in adwords.
Call counts do diminish many times. But if we are giving them a total call count over a period of time and do the ROI and compare it to the ROI that you did with them at the time of the sale they will be OK with the declining count. ROI done at the time of sale is usually very similar to their true call counts if you set the expecation properly. Even with the decline in print usage, if a rep utilized the correct market plans, gave to customer the best value possible and did not get greedy, they should be able to show a profit.

Well said!! i totally agree with the end, its unfortunate most reps don't understand the rate card let alone leverage it to ensure response in the ad...right now its very important we give our clients more in print for less or the same start dollars, and invest the difference in decoupled and webreach...understanding that in the future they will contnue to spend less for print due to the rate of diminishing return...but invest the difference to compensate.

YBASM in YB country, North Carolina said: Well said!! i totally agree with the end, its unfortunate most reps don't understand the rate card let alone leverage it to ensure response in the ad...right now its very important we give our clients more in print for less or the same start dollars, and invest the difference in decoupled and webreach...understanding that in the future they will contnue to spend less for print due to the rate of diminishing return...but invest the difference to compensate.

pulling advertising now is a death sentence...i dont are where you are pulling it from you better be reinvesting it somewhere, and choose wisely...this conversation though is only had with business owners who "don't geet it" the ones that "get it" understand it and don't need selling, they need reps to bring ideas to the table and recommendations that will bring a ROI. Not recommendations that will get the rep to 24!!!!!

YBASM in YB country, North Carolina said: I don't tend to talk to many, let alone newbies, to be frank...i go to work to make money, not friends!!!

Aren't you an ASM? Doesn't that mean that you are supposed to be helping others? and training "newbies?

LOL I read the same thing. This must be a wishful ASM. One of the great fallacies in the advertising game is how businesses must advertise. In reality, businesses only need to advertise to get a jump start to their lagging sales. If a company is in dire need of advertising, it's a failing business more likely than not. Advertising is just as likely to be a killer than savior. The % of businesses that survived/saved by advertising wouldn't be more than 5% and I think that's being extremely gracious. Any business that doesn't make most (at least 90%) of it's money off repeat business and/or reference isn't going to be in business that long.

Where yps get assassinated is the ability to manage your own account on the internet. You aren't locked into anything and you control your budget monthly. Not to mention the internet is readily available anywhere depending on your cellphone and your plan. ROI for yp is trickery at it's finest. You can't throw a blind figure at someone and predict their success. The book is about placement. If you don't have placement, you're dead. If you want placement, you have to pay ridiculous prices. Just how yp throws ROI they also NEVER guarantee success. So you tell me I will make "x" with this ROI, but you can't predict that these clients will actually walk through the door? That's a total sham for anyone who has common sense. If you don't recognize the trickery, then you aren't a very bright person, and that's how YB and other advertising companies like it.