UPS Salaries, Bonuses and Benefits.

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Host

What are the average starting salaries, bonuses, benefits and travel requirements like at UPS?

What do you like best about working at UPS? Are there any great perks or special treats for employees?

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Doug in Mosier, Oregon

94 months ago

Host said: What are the average starting salaries, bonuses, benefits and travel requirements like at UPS?
What do you like best about working at UPS? Are there any great perks or special treats for employees?

YES THIS IS A GREAT COMPANY IF YOU ARE A HARD WORKER.44

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30 year upser

90 months ago

Host said: What are the average starting salaries, bonuses, benefits and travel requirements like at UPS?

What do you like best about working at UPS? Are there any great perks or special treats for employees?

the average starting salary for a partimer is 8.50-9-50 per hour. Not sure about bonuses but benefits inculude medical, dental and glasses and pharm. plus there is a earn and learn program where if you apply, they will reimburse your college tution. Not sure if it is all of it. As a far as travel, if you mean business trips that only refers to full-time magmt, not part timers. ---hope this helps.

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Newupser in Salem, Oregon

89 months ago

What about part time & full time Supervisors wages (range)?

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Old school ups in Bellmawr, New Jersey

88 months ago

Host said: What are the average starting salaries, bonuses, benefits and travel requirements like at UPS?

Union rates for pt is $8.50 for unskilled & $9.50 for skilled. FT salary for drivers depending on the union usually start at $14.10 an hour. Depending on the district: PT supervisor's usually start around $1200-$1400 a month depending on the district, FT supervisor's vary, depending if it's non operation or operational. Usually $48,000 a yr for non operational. FT supervisor's get an MIP (stock), how much depends on the overall success of their department for the year. The end of year bonuses for PT or FT supervisors are a joke, they are heavily taxed and don't justify the amount of hours you put in.

What do you like best about working at UPS? Are there any great perks or special treats for employees?

In the beginning management was the type of company I desired to work in "recognition for being a great employee", 12-15 years later everything turned ridiculas. Great workers in any department were overlooked on promotions due to HR hiring strategies. Hiring unprepared minorities over experienced employees, promoting friends, transfering reputable coworkers for slackers, making dedicated employees do all the dirty work for the slackers, broken promises...and so on. There is no special perks unless you stay in the union, don't listen to any of the lies.

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30 year upser

88 months ago

for package car drivers--pay is a two year progression where you will then reach top rate at 28.17/ hour.

What do I like best for working for UPS?

For me it is benefits. I have been here for 30 years so I am a little biased.

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30 year upser

88 months ago

If you want to be a package car driver, it helps if you have connections. If you want to be a package handler--loading or unloading--it helps but definitely not necessary. If you show an eagerness that you want to work, then your in.

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Upser_Family in Salem, Oregon

87 months ago

The only ones that I've seen state that it was not worth it are the wimps.

Good old fashion hard work. Not something we are used to anymore in this country. It's too bad.

At the end of the day no one, and I mean NO ONE will take care of you and your family like UPS. What other job will get you to $70,000 per year, full medical for your family (with little deductible), a pension, discount cars, etc., etc., etc. When you compare the overall package, not even the UAW can compare.

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30 year upser

87 months ago

Hate to say this Upser Family. It's easy for you to say what you did, because you're obviously a full-timer just like me, and making that kind of money. What you have to understand is that most of the bloggers here are part time making only 8.50 an hour.

When I started before 1977, everybody was making the same pay which was 6.50 an hour. That is nothing now, but at that time, it was a fortune because minimum wage was 2.00 an hour. Then in 1982 the union sold us out and introduced the two-tier wage. What is absolutely appalling is that the 8.50 starting rate is the same now than it was back in 1982. Heck you can go to McDonalds and almost make that. You can work your own hours and work in air conditioning.

If it's any consolation to the would-be applicants, I will say, the working conditions are a lot better than it was when I started. Back then, we worked our asses off and we didn't have fans in each truck,and worse, we didn't have ten minute breaks. We use to work straight through the shift. During the summer, people used to drop like flies because of the heat. We also didn't have trainers that spent several days with you and taught you how to load. My supervisor worked with me for about 10 minutes and basically said, "okay, there you go, I will check back with you in a about an hour."
I guess what I am saying is fulltimers and part timers? YOu are comparing apples and ornanges.

Now, I do have a comment for Rik. If you have been there for 10 years, why haven't you gone into driving so you can make that 70+grand a year. Or at least bid on the article 22 jobs that come up now and then.

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Upser_Family in Salem, Oregon

87 months ago

I agree, though I don't think UPS even needs to go that high. At $15 per hour they would get people standing in line now days.

Back then guys dropped going to college because it wasn't worth it. You made more money driving than being an Accountant, Engineer, etc.

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Bluzedude in San Marcos, California

85 months ago

[QUOTE who="What other job will get you to $70,000 per year, full medical for your family (with little deductible), a pension, discount cars, etc., etc., etc.
Yes, but how long does it take to go from part-time package handler to a full-timer making $70,000+? If it takes 10 years, how is that worth it? This of course is quite subjective and depends upon the individual.

For me, I'm coming out of the CA real estate industry where I'm used to 6 figure salaries. But due to the market crash these past couple years, and having a family of 4 now, I need to change careers. I'm considering UPS, but I'm concerned about not making jack for several years ($10/hr is great for a student perhaps...but not for those who have little mouths to feed, a mortgage, etc...).

To me, the consideration is "Will this result in a livable wage within a reasonable period of time?" $70K is decent in CA, but not if it means having to wait 4+ years. I may as well wait out this market if that's the case.

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Captain Kangaroo in Raleigh, North Carolina

81 months ago

Its like this...."WHAT CAN BROWN DO FOR YOU?"

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StuckUPSer in Portland, Oregon

80 months ago

I am a hard UPS worker, supervisor for 7 years, but what frustrates me is trying to manage office politics. I am currently trying to relocate into Portland for school and to get married, and I have not been able to get the people at my hub to get this done in a timely manner. Is there anyway to "pull" my transfer through from the other side? Would contacting a HR or mgmt person in Oregon help?

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30 year upser

79 months ago

Edmund Fournier in Pensacola, Florida said: Hello, this question is for 30 year upser. How did you get your start with the company?

Actually it was a stroke of luck. I was in college and I was eating lunch with a classmate and I asked him what he did for a living. He said he worked in HR at UPS. He told me the starting rate was 6.50 an hour. I almost choked on my food. This was 1977. at the time minimum wage was like 2.50 an hour, so 6.50 seemed like a fortune. It would be like minimum wage now at 7.50 an hour and the starting rate would be 22.50 an hour.
Anyway, I asked him--more like demanded him to get me on at UPS. The rest is history. I have done just about every job there, from unloading to loading to driving the brown trucks. The only thing I haven't done is drive the big rigs. I am now a sorter and an address correction clerk.

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JonL in Garden Prairie, Illinois

79 months ago

Hey 30 year UPSer,

Can you e-mail me at JonathanJamesLarson at Gmail.com

???

Have many questions!

Thanks

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DJZ in Olive Branch, Mississippi

78 months ago

Does anyone know what the pay expectations should be for a UPS Distribution SVC Supervisor 1 should be?

Here's the description.

Distribution Supervisor
Requisition #23269307
Operations
MEMPHIS, TN

JOB DESCRIPTION:

UPS Supply Chain Solutions is currently seeking Distribution Supervisor I candidates for its logistics operations. Distribution Supervisor I impacts the organization by supervising many of the daily activities for an account, department, or station of a warehouse operation, and by ensuring inventory accuracy, adherence to quality standards, and effective staff management

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schnickelfritz48 in Adamsburg, Pennsylvania

78 months ago

I've been a PT package handler for several years, and am interested in becoming a package car driver. Can someone please explain the procedure to me in detail? I've signed the bid, but I'm concerned about the "UPS road test." I drive a car with a manual transmission. How do I prepare to go from a small car to a package delivery truck and pass the road test? What criteria must be met to pass the road test and how do I find what those criteria are?
Thanks for any advice you can offer.

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30 year upser

78 months ago

The road test is nothing to be worried about. If you know how to drive a stick, you're halfway there. When driving a package car you will just have to be more aware of your surroundings. Just relax. If you are still somewhat skittish, what I would do is rent a truck from one of hose hauling services. They are about the size of a package car. This will give you a feel of the size of the truck and how to maneuver with it.
Also you will need to take a drug test and you will also need a chauffer's license, so if you dont have one you will need to study up for the written test.
As far as being a driver if you are good with directions and are detailed oriented you should do fine. You will have a supervisor with you for the first three days to show you the route, etc. Good Luck

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30 year upser

78 months ago

Tony, According to the new contract signed in December, if you were hired after that, you yourself will not get any medical benefits for the first year and another six months for your family. Inother words, it will take a year and a half from the time you were hired for your family to be covered.

If you were hired before the contract was signed you should have coverage for you and your family. There is a copay of about 10-20 dollars for medical treatment. The best thing to do is go to you local HR to find out what your benefits are.

If you were hired after the contract signing, you might want to consider going into supervision. I am assuming you will get medical coverage since you will now be in management. If you have a good work history even after six months, ie no attendence or tardiness problems, a good worker, well liked by your peers and supervisor etc, you shouldn't have any problems getting a supervisor job. If you apply and get interviewed for a sup. position, have a plan on what you will say. In other words tell them your plans such as you plan to stay because UPS is a solid company and there is opportunity to move up, etc. I am not sure how much of a raise you will get.
Hope this helps and good luck.

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marilyn vic in Novato, California

78 months ago

To Tony - My son has been working for almost 1 year as P/T package handler here in CA. What he has learned is that while UPS says P/T employees are eligible to full benefits - you must work 80 hours in the prior month to get those benefits and employees are only guaranteed 3.5 hours a shift so you never meet that 80 hours except during holiday rush. No sick leave, no medical etc. Its a very deceptive lure to potential employees. He'll complete his year and look elsewhere to make more money for less back breaking work.

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WillyPenn in Oskaloosa, Iowa

78 months ago

hey im currently a senior in college and i been working for UPS for about a year. i was looking to transfer closer to back home after i graduate, but i heard that it is hard to transfer, is this true?? Also, what are the benefits to being a supervisor opposed to becoming a driver?

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not a slacker

76 months ago

OMS- AM Shift in Redding, California said: I just wanted to let all of you perspective employees that this is a hard job. We require dedication and hard work and you will be recognized. Be persistant when applying and check back frequently on your application. Be sure to look and act professional when applying for ANY job that is open. We have old fasioned ideals when it comes to the hiring process. It is a wonderful company to work for and benefits package is unbelievable--if you do quality work.
oms from redding u do realize an oms coming in will potentially make more money than u inside of a year.as starting pay increases yearly our raises have not kept up with the increase someone starting today will have a 6 month increase and then their yearly raise come march

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Ryan6648 in New York

76 months ago

Hi, i'm currently looking ahead to the future for a career and i've heard nothing but good things about UPS. I have 9 months left in the military which will complete my 6 year tour. I'll be moving back to upstate NY where I will live and i'm thinking about applying to UPS. I am a crewchief on tankers and work extremely hard. Taking care of multi-million dollars worth of equipment everyday and being in charge of ensuring the success of the mission. I was wondering if UPS looks kindly upon men and women with prior military history. Trying to get as much information as possible while doing my research. I'm currently deployed but will check back to see if there are any responses as soon as I can. Thanks for all the information i've ready already.

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lucky dude in Burlington, Iowa

75 months ago

i am currently a package car driver and i wondered if there is any way to transfer to another ups out of state without starting back from scrath (meaning preload)...i heard that you can only transfer if you are in management. thanks

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badboyinjordanz in Capitol Heights, Maryland

75 months ago

i started working at ups straight out of high school i loved it in the beginning i didn't mind the hard work i started in Oct of 05 well once Christmas was over i was given my own pull which became a 5 truck pull with the last truck having a extra car on back all of which carried bulk stops and i received NOOO HELP for months i was up to 475 packages per hour. everyday i was left on a island to deal with the it myself and my supervisor was lazy and so was the part time sup i got no help what so ever yet everyday i finished on time. I even hurt myself a few times with the crazy pace then it got to the point where everyday they would blame for the problems on my belt if u have 5 bulk stops (AND ONE WENT TO A MALL) come all at once for 5 different trucks you tell me how you would get it done. Like it was very common to see 1 of 30 1 of 50 1 of 70 and on a bad day all at once which would be cool if like the 1 of 30 wasnt footlocker boxes and car parts and other random things that didnt fit on shelves. No one would help me even when there were ppl on the belt with 3 trucks who often had chances to just stand around my supervisor would blame me to deflect his failings all the suits would wonder whats going on and they all would promise me help that i never ever got so oneday i just stop going i couldnt take it any more this was 3 years ago and after i quit they had to hire 2 people to do my pull and my supervisor was demoted and my boss since then has been transferred. So i tried to re apply online because i loved my job so i tried to re apply today online since some things have changed. I just was fed up with being taking advantage of it now says im not eligible for rehire lol I feel like if i were just on another belt or anything my experience would have been great but i guess i didnt have that luck

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UPSER in Glendale, California

74 months ago

Johnny Doe in Nashville, Tennessee said: I've been a package handler for about 6 months now and was thinking about becoming a part-time sup. Just curious if they do a drug screen for this position.

No drug test but you have to take a test to become a supervisor

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d2paintballer in Lebanon, Ohio

72 months ago

I am in a debate weather or not to try to go for a career at UPS. I really need a career, but I'm hesitant weather or not to chance working for UPS.

How long do you think it would take me working full time in loading trucks or something similar to progress to package car driver? I am bouncing around the idea of this job over an associates degree in Physical Therapy Assistant.

Anyway, how long do you guys think it would take me to work my way up to Package Car Drive with no hook-ups working at UPS?? I appreciate your input. Thanks guys

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d2paintballer in Lebanon, Ohio

72 months ago

By the way, I am an extremely hard worker who can work in ALL weather conditions with ease. I can also work any and all hours that the company needs me to work. Thanks again

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Angela Nelson in Fort Worth, Texas

67 months ago

30 year upser...

I just thought you would be the best to ask this question to... perhaps someone can help me with this... My father just recently left UPS in order to take care of two of his children, my mother was absent during this time. He did leave on good terms, and had been working for UPS for the past 15 years. Well he and my mother have just divorced and she left my father with nothing. He really needs to get back to work, but when he went back to UPS his former supervisor told him that UPS had a no rehire policy. My father has been a shop sup for years. He realizes he will not be able to find another job that pays as well as UPS, esp since he does not have a college education. Is there really a no rehire policy in effect or is that guy just angry that dad left. If anybody can please help me with this answer i would be grateful... thank you

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30 year upser in Missouri

62 months ago

lori knittle in pottstown, Pennsylvania said: 30 year
why do new hires have to wait a year for benefits?
and why is the inatiotin fee so high?

Lori, unfortunately that was negoiated in our last contract. I say unfortunately because that is what the company wanted and the union caved. Believe me I was totally against it as were a lot of upsers. Neverhteless the contract passed and we are stuck with it until the next contract which will be 2013.
I am not sure why the iniation fee is high except to say it is a Teamster decision not UPS. Supposedly, they use it for processing fee which I think is B S.

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Nygiant in queens, New York

62 months ago

Hey Guys im college Student.

i applied for a P/T ups package handler... I saw some of the benefits they offer and i got interested. i was curious about Tuition assistance, health and medical insurance.

Now would i be eligible for these benefits when i am hired or is it after a year?

i used to work for a private company during summers/holidays in the packaging area earning me 12/hour. so i have experience and i know how to drive a hilo but im not certified.

Should i look into UPS and what would be my starting salary.

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30 year upser in Missouri

62 months ago

Nygiant in queens, New York said: Hey Guys im college Student.

i applied for a P/T ups package handler... I saw some of the benefits they offer and i got interested. i was curious about Tuition assistance, health and medical insurance.

Now would i be eligible for these benefits when i am hired or is it after a year?

i used to work for a private company during summers/holidays in the packaging area earning me 12/hour. so i have experience and i know how to drive a hilo but im not certified.

Hi nygiant
This is what I wrote to somebody earlier this week regarding this same question.

Let me say should you get on at UPS, you will not get any medical benefits for yourself for the first year. If you have a family, you will not get beneifts for them for another six months. In other words, it will take a year for you to get coveravge, a year and a half to get your family covered. Good Luck
As far as starting salary, you will start out at 8.50 an hour. In ninty days it goes up to 9.50 an hour.

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30 year upser in Missouri

62 months ago

Andrew Fitt in Chicago, Illinois said: No stealing, dishonesty or attendence issues was involved

okay.....for others who are reading this blog, besides dishonesty, stealing, and attendence, other reasons one could get fired is failing to follow instructions--when a supervisor tells you to do something and you dont do it, cussing a supervisor out and, misloads. Usually if it is for misloads you go through the grievance process which is a verbal warning, warning letter, suspension and finally termination.

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Andrew Fitt in Chicago, Illinois

62 months ago

30 year upser in Missouri said: okay.....for others who are reading this blog, besides dishonesty, stealing, and attendence, other reasons one could get fired is failing to follow instructions--when a supervisor tells you to do something and you dont do it, cussing a supervisor out and, misloads. Usually if it is for misloads you go through the grievance process which is a verbal warning, warning letter, suspension and finally termination.

No misloads were involved since i was an unloader and no cussing at the supervisor was involved either

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lori knittle in pottstown, Pennsylvania

62 months ago

30 year

had my tour and interview i thought the iterveiw went great until the hr rep asked if i had any felnoys or any kind of record and i do have a misdemenor back in 2002 for bad checks do you think i have a chance or no?

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30 year upser in Missouri

62 months ago

Andrew Fitt in Chicago, Illinois said: No misloads were involved since i was an unloader and no cussing at the supervisor was involved either

did you fail to follow instructions? There obviously was a reason why you were fired. You didn't indicate how long you worked at UPS.
If it was during your probation period,yes they can let you go for any reason without having union representation.

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30 year upser in Missouri

62 months ago

lori knittle in pottstown, Pennsylvania said: 30 year

had my tour and interview i thought the iterveiw went great until the hr rep asked if i had any felnoys or any kind of record and i do have a misdemenor back in 2002 for bad checks do you think i have a chance or no?

Lori, the best thing is to be upfront and honest. If it was a misdemenor, it shouldn't be any problem. What the company is looking for is felonies, especially stealing. You should be okay.

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lori knittle in pottstown, Pennsylvania

62 months ago

30 year i told the hr rep about the mindeminor on my record and she said it might be a problem but it is up to corporte. and i checked my app on line and it got changed to loader unloader des that mean i have a shot at it or not?

thanks

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30 year upser in Missouri

62 months ago

lori knittle in pottstown, Pennsylvania said: 30 year i told the hr rep about the mindeminor on my record and she said it might be a problem but it is up to corporte. and i checked my app on line and it got changed to loader unloader des that mean i have a shot at it or not?

thanks

Not sure what that means, changing your job description. What was it before?
On the other hand, if your app is still on line, that is a good sign.
Just keep plugging away and hope for the best. I still think, having a misdemenor shouldn't keep you from getting the job.

Good Luck--Tony

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lori knittle in pottstown, Pennsylvania

62 months ago

30 year

as going to be a part time employee i hope
how many hours do you have to work to get overtime i heard anything over fivein a day

thanks lori

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lori knittle in pottstown, Pennsylvania

62 months ago

i don't know if 30 year knows this but how much do we get paid for training in cornerstone?
also how much have you made in peak season is is alot more than reg season?

sorry if im asking so many questions but you have been there 30 years i thought it would be better to ask you for most questions.

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30 year upser in Missouri

62 months ago

lori knittle in pottstown, Pennsylvania said: i don't know if 30 year knows this but how much do we get paid for training in cornerstone?
also how much have you made in peak season is is alot more than reg season?

sorry if im asking so many questions but you have been there 30 years i thought it would be better to ask you for most questions.

You can contact me anythime, Lori. Glad to help out any newbies. :)

Yes you get paid during your cornerstone training which is 8.50 an hour.
During peak season, the pay rate is the same but you will get paid more due to the hours worked. In other words, normally you get anywhere from three and a half hours to as many as 5 to 6 hours worked because of the heavy volume during this time. When you go over 5 hours you will get overtime at 1 1/2 rate of pay.
BTW, I am now going on 32 years. LOL

As I said,feel free to contact me anytime on this forum. Glad to oblige. I know what you are all going through and what you will be going through once you get the job.

One other thing, to anyone reading this. You guys and gals have it good now days. I know I am going to sound like my father, but....back in the old days, when I started in 1977--most of you probably weren'tborn yet, LOL--- we didn't have 10 minute breaks or for that matter fans. It was a virtual sweat shop. Now you do get breaks and ther is a fan in every truck. :)

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lori knittle in pottstown, Pennsylvania

62 months ago

30 year or should i say 32 year

do you know how many hours for the so called four days in day we will have training?

and have you ever been a driver helper and how good does it pay or not and how many hours in a day or week do drivers helper get?

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30 year upser in Missouri

62 months ago

lori knittle in pottstown, Pennsylvania said: 30 year or should i say 32 year

do you know how many hours for the so called four days in day we will have training?

and have you ever been a driver helper and how good does it pay or not and how many hours in a day or week do drivers helper get?

For cornerstone I assume it is anywhere from 3-4 hours a day. I am not sure how many days. When I started back in 1977 they didn't have training like cornerstone. My first day, my supervisor put me in a truck, worked with me for about a half hour and said, "There you go, that is how you load a truck. I will check with you in an hour and see how you are doing."
That was my training. LOL
I have driven as a package car driver for a while but not as a driver helper.
The pay is the same I believe, but it is only available to twilight and night people because in addition to being a driver helper, you will also have to do your regular job as a package handler. The hours you will put in is anywhere from 2-3 hours a day.
They do hire driver helpers off the street in additon to hiring them from the inside.
If you are a package handler and want to be a driver helper, it is based on seniority, which means you wont be a driver helper becaouse of too many people in front of you.
Good luck Lori in whatever you do for UPS.

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lori knittle in pottstown, Pennsylvania

62 months ago

any one out there besides 30 year

have you been a driver helper and what is is like what hours did you work and how much did you get payed?

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30 year upser in Missouri

62 months ago

lori knittle in pottstown, Pennsylvania said: any one out there besides 30 year

have you been a driver helper and what is is like what hours did you work and how much did you get payed?

Okay, I did a little checking. The pay is, at least where I work is 12.88 per hour. The hours usually start about 1:00 pm and you are out about 3-4 hours a day.
What you do is meet a driver about at a set time while he is on his route. Dont be late. He is on a time schedule. Once you are done with the driver, then you go to work in the building doing your regular job.
Now it looks like you are interested in being a driver helper. They do hire outside, meaning they will hire you to help the driver. Once the holiday season is over, you will be laid off and pray that you get called back.
If you are planning on getting hired as apackage handler and also a driver helper, dont ccount on it. Being a driver helper is based on seniority and since you are basically a new-hire, you wont have chance to be one. Sorreeeee. :)
Should you be a driver's helper, get a lot of rest because you will be very busy, running to houses dropping off packages while either the driver waits for you or is delivering other packages.

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lori knittle in pottstown, Pennsylvania

62 months ago

thanks 30year
i called today to up on my tour/interview and got told that they are waiting to see hoqw many spots they have to fill right now does that sound good or no?

i figured i would have to wait to be a driver helper when and if i get into ups.

how big is the hub where you work?

i was told that the one in west chester pa is one of there small ones

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30 year upser in Missouri

62 months ago

If they told you they are waiting to see how many spots to fill, looks like you're in.
There is a possiblity they may ask you to be a driver's helper, but the gig is only for about two weeks, maybe three at the most. I am not sure if they will ask you to come back to work in the hub after the xmas rush. That is why I hope you get to work as a package handler instead of being a driver helper. As PH, you will definitely get more hours of work per day plus you have a better chance to get called back after the xmas rush if you are a good worker and they like you.

There are hubs and there are centers.
Hubs are huge buildings where they can push through 250,000 packages in a 24 hour period. During peak season or the holiday rush, it could be 350,000 or more packages processed in a 24 hour period or more. I work in a hub.

Centers are smaller building that are in outlying areas in the smaller rural counties. They may push 50-100,000 packages in a 24 hour period.

The thing to remember is whether you work in a center or hub, you are guranteed 3.5 hours of work a day. YOu will get overtime after 5 hours or work per day.

Good Luck in whatever happens---Tony

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lori knittle in pottstown, Pennsylvania

62 months ago

this is the last post for today i hope

how many trucks does your hub have? the one in west chester has 225 and it serves all of chester county most of montgomery county and some of delaware county that's what they told me at the tour.

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30 year upser in Missouri

62 months ago

lori knittle in pottstown, Pennsylvania said: this is the last post for today i hope

how many trucks does your hub have? the one in west chester has 225 and it serves all of chester county most of montgomery county and some of delaware county that's what they told me at the tour.

I believe it has that many or more, So it looks like you work in a hub rather than a center, which is good because you have a better chance of getting a job than at a center.
Good luck and let me know what happens. :)

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