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Chaka in Los Angeles, California

87 months ago

Aloha! i am also a massage therapist..and yes your therapist was correct.. i just hope she told you the most important part of releasing the lactic acid is too drink plenty of water..because all that work put into releasing those trigger points is absolutley pointless if you dont flush out the toxins..otherwise the same lactic acids will build up at the same trigger points the next day....

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TexasLMT in Austin, Texas

85 months ago

tk thai in Puerto Plata, Dominican Republic said: hola i dont think you can be certain it is toxins, frankly I doubt it. Some therapists will plunk my Levator Scapulae muscle like a bass guitar string and tell me "its toxins". Michelle also makes some valid points about trigger points but a sarcomere is the basic unit of a muscle's cross-striated myofibril. Sarcomeres are multi-protein complexes composed of three different filament systems. sarcomere info from wikipedia

Finally someone else realizes it! I hate getting the "Selling pitch" from other therapists saying oh come on in a few more times and we'll get these worked out when the entire time i'm lying there thinking it's my levator scap... Most "crunchies" I've found to be trigger points. But, if there was one definite answer / cure we would all know it and would all be rich. If there's no crunching when moving joints, arms legs etc then more then likely a trigger point. Hope that helps

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steve in San Francisco, California

85 months ago

David, I have the same crunchiness in my muscles between the scapulae and the spinal column. I have also experienced this in others when massaging them. I don't have a scientific explanation, but I agree with Michelle in Salt Lake that it is related to trigger points and overworked muscles. It most certainly is NOT lactic acid. Lactic acid is a liquid, for heaven's sake! All acids are liquids and liquids can't crunch!

What you are referring to is a hardness, like the muscles have grown shells. I wonder if these are calcifications. I have seen pictures of injured joints in which the ligaments and tendons have run amok and calicified (like hard water deposits on your tap). These areas are painful and do not stretch properly. Nor do they contract correctly because they are always in a mostly contracted state and can't pull effectively. So they are painful, weak, hard and ineffective areas of muscle.

My theory is that they are muscles that are exhausted to biomechanical or postural imbalances. Perhaps a synergist muscle is weak due to insufficient training, non-ergonomic work style, or insufficient innervation, e.g., an impinged nerve). I massaged someone 2 days ago who had crunchy muscles in the upper back due to leaning his head forward while working all day, forcing those muscles to hold his head up, instead of letting his head balance on his neck.

In my experience, you should have the areas worked on using moderate pressure and hard surfaces like knuckles and elbows. It will be painful, so have the therapist start slow, use open hands, broad strokes and warm the muscles up progressively until he or she is really digging in and breaking up the adhesions. Don't do too much at once. Frequency and intensity are more important. Think about how you are using those muscles and what you are doing to drive them to exhaustion and make necessary corrections.

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Joshua in Mill Valley, California

83 months ago

I humbly suggest that everyone now look up the definition of 'trigger point'.

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Massage Therapist (no more) in Hyattsville, Maryland

83 months ago

It's called muscle tension. :-)

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Interested Observer in California

83 months ago

steve in San Francisco, California said: Lactic acid is a liquid, for heaven's sake! All acids are liquids and liquids can't crunch!

I don't want to get into a debate about trigger points - but Citric acid is a "white crystalline substance" Maybe acids are only liquid in vivo ....?

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Just a test in Seattle, Washington

82 months ago

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Shirley Schnabele,LMT in Leipsic, Ohio

80 months ago

"Crunchies?" Are you talking cornflakes? I have no verification on this, but I believe what you are referring to are either calcium deposits or other toxic buildups in body, that are re-released into the body when given a massage. Just be careful,as there are underlying bones,muscle,arteries and veins, and other structures that you do not want to harm by asserting too much pressure.Always start light and increase pressure to client's tolerance.By taking your time and working slower,this almost always gives the client deeper pressure.Good luck in college!

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Eric in Atlanta, Georgia

76 months ago

DavidA. in Temple, Texas said: I recieved a massage and while being massaged I could hear like crunching in the muscles around my shoulders. The therapist said it was toxins in my muscles...lactic build-up. Is this true? I thought lactic acid was from ATP being produced without oxygen. And as soon as your activity decreases enough to utilize oxygen again lactic acid is converted back. Any comments?

You guys are over thinking. Most of you are knowledgeable about soft tissue. Sounds to me like adhesions in the tissues. Where fascia is stuck to fascia. One muscle group stuck to another. Probably fibrotic tissue. Fibrotic tissue will hold on to acid waste because it has poor circulation. So, when you release the adhered fibers, you bring in fresh blood and oxygen and it takes away the waste. Trigger points are are usually a neuromuscular spasm that will also hold on to waste. I think a lot of schools have therapists teaching in them that are not that experienced or only partially ignorant of what they teach. Will not hurt anyone, but it leaves a bunch of ignorant(not dumb) therapists and clients out there. Eric from Nashville. I have been a massage therapist for 8 years.

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Saviya in Seattle, Washington

76 months ago

Eric in Atlanta, Georgia said: You guys are over thinking. Most of you are knowledgeable about soft tissue. Sounds to me like adhesions in the tissues. Where fascia is stuck to fascia. One muscle group stuck to another. Probably fibrotic tissue. Fibrotic tissue will hold on to acid waste because it has poor circulation. So, when you release the adhered fibers, you bring in fresh blood and oxygen and it takes away the waste. Trigger points are are usually a neuromuscular spasm that will also hold on to waste. I think a lot of schools have therapists teaching in them that are not that experienced or only partially ignorant of what they teach. Will not hurt anyone, but it leaves a bunch of ignorant(not dumb) therapists and clients out there. Eric from Nashville. I have been a massage therapist for 8 years.

I can't believe it took over a year to get that it's most likely it's adhesions. Don't over think it! (been a LMP for 10 years)

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luci in Hamilton, Ontario

76 months ago

LOL that was very entertaining.. yes adhesions ..lactid acid was a silly answer. liquid doesnt crunch but may lead to it.

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lamar white in Jacksonville, Florida

76 months ago

to the best of my knowledge,i believe that the "crunchies," what I call them< are just shortened muscles that need lengthening

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DOCMAC22 in Asheville, North Carolina

76 months ago

1st of all No Massage Therapist is qualified to answer this question.

2nd most of these responses make me ashamed to be a Therapist, as the answers are all off base or just plain wrong.

3rd The person asking these questions obviously has knowledge of Physiology just read his question, and is apparently attempting to get people to step outside their realm of practice which those here sure did do. He even gives his own answer to the question in an apparent attempt to bait those here, his answer while also wrong did however work to get those to bite.

Lastly as a former RN I can take a stab, and say what all of us here should've said. REFER TO HIM TO HIS PRIMARY CARE PHYSICIAN. This issue is most likely Bursittis, and inflamation of a joint space or the depletion of a buffer between the bones which when moved make a sometimes audible grinding or poping sound, it's rarely painful and will possibly lead to arthittis in those effected joints.

By the way Lactic acid occurs in 2 scenarios, when a muscle is over worked and depleted all it's glucose stores (which is the reason you are sore after working out to hard or doing something that you haven't done in a long time), the other way lactic acid can form is due to inability to move or use a muscle / joint enough to allow O2 and adequate blood flow to nourish the area.

Lets keep it on the up and up here folks. We are care givers not miracle workers.

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JoeCrunchy in Houston, Texas

75 months ago

DOCMAC22 in Asheville, North Carolina said: 1st of all No Massage Therapist is qualified to answer this question.

2nd most of these responses make me ashamed to be a Therapist, as the answers are all off base or just plain wrong.

3rd The person asking these questions obviously has knowledge of Physiology just read his question, and is apparently attempting to get people to step outside their realm of practice which those here sure did do. He even gives his own answer to the question in an apparent attempt to bait those here, his answer while also wrong did however work to get those to bite.

Lastly as a former RN I can take a stab, and say what all of us here should've said. REFER TO HIM TO HIS PRIMARY CARE PHYSICIAN. This issue is most likely Bursittis, and inflamation of a joint space or the depletion of a buffer between the bones which when moved make a sometimes audible grinding or poping sound, it's rarely painful and will possibly lead to arthittis in those effected joints.

By the way Lactic acid occurs in 2 scenarios, when a muscle is over worked and depleted all it's glucose stores (which is the reason you are sore after working out to hard or doing something that you haven't done in a long time), the other way lactic acid can form is due to inability to move or use a muscle / joint enough to allow O2 and adequate blood flow to nourish the area.

Lets keep it on the up and up here folks. We are care givers not miracle workers.

Dude, your no better than any of the other posters!
Hes asking why muscles crunch when you massage them, why does he need to go see a physician? If someone asks why the sky is blue you going to refer them to Sandia laboratories?

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Massage therapist in Sunny FLA in Daytona Beach, Florida

74 months ago

DOCMAC22 in Asheville, North Carolina said: 1st of all No Massage Therapist is qualified to answer this question.

2nd most of these responses make me ashamed to be a Therapist, as the answers are all off base or just plain wrong.

3rd The person asking these questions obviously has knowledge of Physiology just read his question, and is apparently attempting to get people to step outside their realm of practice which those here sure did do. He even gives his own answer to the question in an apparent attempt to bait those here, his answer while also wrong did however work to get those to bite.

LOL!!!! Right On!!! Although I totally agree with you that he most definately should be "refered to his Physician" because that would be the "right" thing to do (or really being the c.y.a. thing to do) I myself come across this while massaging and found that if the "crunchies" are at the top corner area of the scapula closest to the spine(im just not gonna try to pretend I even care to remember the "dorsal area" etc blah blah blah anymore)(plus Im tired)so If its in this area...the shoulder needs to be popped..or rather "compression of the muscles" (because that would be in a massage therapists scope of practice) is needed. If you know how to do it-and 99% of people do not, even some chiropracters dont know how-it gets rid of the "crunchies" and helps with tight traps etc so on and so forth. See a Chiropracter dude and tell him you need to have youre shoulders popped because it is technically out of the realm of a massage therapists practice.

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medical massage therapist in centerville, Ohio

74 months ago

CONGRATULATIONS ALL OF YOU THERAPISTS YOU ARE INVOLVED AND GIVING YOUR HONEST OPINIONS ABOUT WHAT YOU DO. AND SOME OF YOU HAVE GREAT IDEAS AND GREAT COMPASSION FOR YOUR CLIENTS AND PATIENTS.BUT WE ARE NOT PHYSICIANS OK JUST A REALITY CHECK. ALSO, IF ALL OF YOU WOULD SPEND ALL OF THAT PASSION YOU HAVE AND DIRECT IT IN A POSITIVE WAY YOU WILL PROSPER.THIS IS WHY I DONT ASSOCIATE WITH MASSAGE THERAPISTS,AESTHETICS PROFESSIONALS,MANICURISTS, SPA PEOPLE OR SPA EGO MANIACS ANYMORE.I HAVE BEEN IN THE INSUSTRY 13 YEARS AND IM SICK TO MY STOMACH TO SEE SO MANY PEOPLE LASHING OUT AT EACH OTHER. WE WENT INTO THIS FIELD BECAUSE WE ARE COMPASSIONATE,EMPATHETIC,LOVING CARING PEOPLE WITH A GIFT AND THAT GIFT WAS TOUCH , IT IS A GIFT AND THOSE OF YOU WHO WENT INTO THIS TO FIGHT AND LOOK DOWN ON OTHER PROFESSIONALS AND BATTLE EVERYDAY AND HAVE JELOUSY FOR EACH OTHER AND THROW STONES SHAME ON YOU. BY THE WAY I DO THINK ALOT OF YOU HAVE GREAT POSITIVE ANSWERS. IM GETTING OUT OF THE INDUSTRY BECAUSE OF THIS TYPE STUFF THIS EVEN GOES ON IN HOSPITALS AND CLINICS ETC BECAUSE I HAVE WORKED IN A HOSPITAL AS WELL...SO IM NOT JUST EXPERIENCED IN THE SPA INDUSTRY. I THINK THAT WE SHOULD HELP EACH OTHER PULL TOGEATHER AND BE POSITIVE INSTEAD OF CUTTING EACH OTHERS THROATS WHATS THE WORLD COMING TOO LETS BE NICE...GOOD GRIEF..............DISSAPPOINTED IN SOME WAYS TOO. I LOVE THE WIT SOME OF YOU HAVE TOO...ITS GREAT TO BE FUNNY AT TIMES AND JUST LAUGH LIKE PATCH ADAMS HAHAHAHAHAH LETS BE NICE TO EACH OTHER.....

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Tim

73 months ago

I just wanted to reply to comments three and eight. For three I just wanted to say while I don't think it's a toxin, the sarcomere is the dark band in the muscle between the z lines. Also to eight, umm..... no not all acids are liquds. I think what's confused you is that almost every acid a person will come into contact with has already been dissolved in water.

Finally and don't quote me on this since I'm not a professional or anything. I've heard that what happens is that this only happens when your muscles are chronically tense. This causes your muscles to constantly pull at the sites where they're attached and eventually can cause them to start pulling away. In order to prevent this your body sends osteocytes to the area of attachment to reinforce it, and caused you to kind of get like a bone spur thing. Or so I've read.

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LMT in Scottsdale, Arizona

72 months ago

What are the crunchies I feel in clients plams, bottom of the feet and just about the knee? I have no idea, but if I work these areas, I can work most of the "crunchies" out.

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Michelle in Layton, Utah

72 months ago

Well, they say those little crunchy things are calcium deposit build-ups. For me, it shows me which part of the body may need a little more work by which reflex area it's sitting on. If I feel it's an organ (such as the heart), I work it through the foot until I don't feel the crunchy anymore. The hands, feet, and ears all have reflexology points. The knees however are not part of reflexology, but do take a lot of daily abuse, and need to be worked during a session. Don't forget to include the leg muscles to release the knees.

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LMT in Scottsdale, Arizona

72 months ago

Thanks Michelle, that's what I suspected. I'll check the reflexology charts, and I never forget the legs unless otherwise instructed by the client:0).

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Cynthia 09 in Chicago, Illinois

72 months ago

DavidA. in Temple, Texas said: I recieved a massage and while being massaged I could hear like crunching in the muscles around my shoulders. The therapist said it was toxins in my muscles...lactic build-up. Is this true? I thought lactic acid was from ATP being produced without oxygen. And as soon as your activity decreases enough to utilize oxygen again lactic acid is converted back. Any comments?

Hi David
Couple of things that could cause the crunching not enough water thru the day and maybe not enough stretching.
Thank you
Cynthia
hern.cynthia@yahoo.com

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MT in MA in Northampton, Massachusetts

71 months ago

Just wondering, has no one bothered to ask a DR. what these are? I have felt them tons of times and they surely do not feel like what I would call trigger points. I too have found them in feet and knees. I would assume they are some type of calcification but how to know???

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LMT in Scottsdale, Arizona

71 months ago

What kind of Dr. would know this. For some reason I don't believe a GP would have any idea.

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MT in Silver Spring, Maryland

66 months ago

Can I just say (from personal experience) that most back-related things you take to a Doctor you are either told "Nothing is wrong with you...crazy" OR referred for invasive procedures or toxic medications or all three. The only real help I have every gotten has been from MTs and Manual PTs. Besides, in my experience of this "crunchy" phenomenon, oftentimes they are nowhere near joints.

DOCMAC22 in Asheville, North Carolina said: 1st of all No Massage Therapist is qualified to answer this question.

2nd most of these responses make me ashamed to be a Therapist, as the answers are all off base or just plain wrong.

3rd The person asking these questions obviously has knowledge of Physiology just read his question, and is apparently attempting to get people to step outside their realm of practice which those here sure did do. He even gives his own answer to the question in an apparent attempt to bait those here, his answer while also wrong did however work to get those to bite.

Lastly as a former RN I can take a stab, and say what all of us here should've said. REFER TO HIM TO HIS PRIMARY CARE PHYSICIAN. This issue is most likely Bursittis, and inflamation of a joint space or the depletion of a buffer between the bones which when moved make a sometimes audible grinding or poping sound, it's rarely painful and will possibly lead to arthittis in those effected joints.

By the way Lactic acid occurs in 2 scenarios, when a muscle is over worked and depleted all it's glucose stores (which is the reason you are sore after working out to hard or doing something that you haven't done in a long time), the other way lactic acid can form is due to inability to move or use a muscle / joint enough to allow O2 and adequate blood flow to nourish the area.

Lets keep it on the up and up here folks. We are care givers not miracle workers.

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Brett Ryan in Melbourne, Australia

66 months ago

Michelle in Salt Lake City, Utah said: Hi! I am a massage therapist and an instructor of massage. The cruchies around your shoulder are trigger points. It is actually your bodies way of trying to help you when your body mechanics are out of whack. Trigger points are connective tissure that form in all parts of your body when your body mechanics and/or mind are stressed. They will form and keep the circualtion away from that area, causing a build-up of sacarmeres (toxins), and will create pain either in the area or refer pain to another area.

Our bodies are strange, huh? I hope that this answers your question. The therapist should have been able to remove the trigger points and free up your shoulders.

I get this all the time in my body, I get it everywhere, but mostly in my neck and down my spine. I think it could be related to working at a computer, I have nystagmus and am short sighted with tunnel vision so my neck and back muscles are always tense to stop my head shaking with my vision when trying to focus.

What can I do to stop/correct this?

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The Massage Guru in Towson, Maryland

64 months ago

You wanted a DR you got one. I am a world renowned Dr of Massage. The "Crunchies" are definitely cornflakes!

Dr. Pepper

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FusionMassage in Kissimmee, Florida

63 months ago

Let me eloborate on that last part. Think about this: there are a lot of people out there with the same phobia as you and often times those who are afraid to touch are also afraid of being touched. That usually stems from societal issues such as low self esteem, physical and mental abuse issues, distorted body image, etc. These are people whom you could help because you can relate; not neccessarily to the root causes but to the fear itself.

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Laurel in Charlotte, North Carolina

63 months ago

Hi Fusion Massage -

Thanks for your insight & taking the time to reply. This really helps a lot in confirming what I felt I knew.

No, I'm not going into massage therapy for the money. Actually, it is going to take me stepping away from money at this point and a pretty big risk in order to go to school for it. I don't think that my phobia of touching people is really extreme, I just know the obvious thought would be that if you are interested in the concept of massage therapy, then you must love touching people! However, I wouldn't say that is true concerning myself, so obviously it has given me some doubt concerning it being the right choice for me. However, I know that most of my fear comes from it simply being something I am not used to and it is new to me. I touch those I love on a regular basis, however have never worked in the health field before (I've always been a computer magnet). Yes, I am sure this is a fear that I will need to overcome and believe I shouldn't have much of a problem in doing so, it's just my brain can sometimes take over & leave me in a world of fear! I also agree with what you said about it having to do with my own personal hang ups concerning touch and being touched. Not everyone is comfortable in that realm and I agree that it may work in my favor concerning getting that population on board and believing in the healing power of it.

Thanks again,
Laurel

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FusionMassage in Kissimmee, Florida

63 months ago

Hi Laurel,
You are more than welcome! Your honesty is admirable and your willingness to overcome your "hang ups" will help make you a stronger, more compassionate therapist. Good Luck - as if you need it!

Pete, aka
Fusion Massage

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Laurel in Charlotte, North Carolina

62 months ago

Thanks! (Hugs) :)

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LORRAINE

59 months ago

I RECEIVED TOO MANY DEEP MASSAGES IN A SHORT PERIOD OF TIME. MY BODY BECAME VERY SORE AND WHILE WALKING DOWN STAIRS I HEARD A POP THAT SCARED ME, I DID NOT GET BLACK AND BLUE BUT MY CALF FELT TIGHT. I WAS CONCERNED THAT SOMETHING WAS DAMAGED, I AM GOT EVER GOING TO HAVE A DEEP MASSAGE FOR A LONG TIME. I AM TAKING IT EASY CURRENTLY. I HAVE BEEN RUNNING FOR 30 YEARS AND NEVER FELT THIS WAY. COULD YOU GIVE ME SOME ADVISE.

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Michelle in Bountiful, Utah

59 months ago

Lorraine,

Concerning your calf. I would definitely go see my doctor as soon as possible. The first thing that came to my mind was "deep vein thrombosis". I'm not saying that this is what it is.............but you should go and see your doctor for a possible ultra sound to see what is going on in your calf. It may or may not have something to do with massage. When something like this occurs out of the blue - a physician should be sought out immediately.

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kate in Boston, Massachusetts

57 months ago

Heather in Mount Vernon, Ohio said: I dont think lactic acid or toxins IN the muscle make crunching noises. Massage creates lactic acid as exercising the muscle would. I have a client who crunches when her arm is abducted,she says it doesnt hurt, and I have no idea what it is. But I think it has more to do with the articulating bones and the cartilage than it does with any metabolic reaction.

I do massage more than 25 years. 4 certificates on massage I have received the in Russia. Each 5 years the masseur долэен to pass a curriculum and to hand over the test. Each masseur was under supervision of Ministry of Health. Now I have the American certificate on massage. I was in many clinics and salons...... I saw awful massage and a deceit.... Your doctor is not right....... I do not understand as it is possible to deceive the patient.... It is awful......

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Roxanna LMT in Lawrenceville, Georgia

36 months ago

Hello crunchies= calcium deposits, from inflammation in the tissues, when are massage therapists going to do real research, the body will automatically send calcium to areas that are inflammed (ever wonder why they tell you to tell your clients to take epsom salts bath....) epsom salt is magnesium and magnesium dissolves calcium deposits...I use magnesium oil in my practice every day and it works on crunchies and I have not gotten tender or sore hands in over 5 years...I also take epsom salt baths twice a week with 4 cups of epsom salt...also your body will deposit calcium which people eat way too much of, when you get over 40 into the tissues and joints because you should no longer need it in the bones...
Hope this helps clear up this question...
Roxanna Williamson
Got Pain? Massage Therapy
Roswell GA

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Sabrinawaterfield in Columbia City, Indiana

34 months ago

I went and got a deep tissue massage today and am now in incredible amounts of pain. My husband went to hug me and at his touch on the middle of my back, he dropped me to my knees in intense pain. The only place it really hurts it the middle of my back between my shoulder blades. I have had deep tissue massages before but never had this kind of pain after one. Is this normal or should I seek medical treatment?

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je in Makati, Philippines

33 months ago

Sabrinawaterfield in Columbia City, Indiana said: I went and got a deep tissue massage today and am now in incredible amounts of pain. My husband went to hug me and at his touch on the middle of my back, he dropped me to my knees in intense pain. The only place it really hurts it the middle of my back between my shoulder blades. I have had deep tissue massages before but never had this kind of pain after one. Is this normal or should I seek medical treatment?

seek and consult your physician.:)

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Pamela in Salem, Oregon

32 months ago

Have had fibromyalgia since after a severe car accident in 2004. Whiplash, far more damaging thn most medical professionals care to acknowledge. Myofascial adhesions, bundles of tight damaged muscles, calcification - all create the lumpy, crunchy, gritty, and hard muscles. I have that all over my body, I receive myfacial release therapy and deep tissue massages regularly. (In combination of medications, diet, gentle exercise, stress reduction, magnesium soaks, etc) It is very possible to do more harm than good - don't be eager to 'crush' the crunchies out. In people without FM, it's common to have these muscle issues in areas of our bodies that are overworked and/or incorrectly used (not paying attention to body mechanics and ergonomics). A great complimentary therapy to the massage is trigger point injections with a solution of b12,saline, and lidocaine (or other local anaesthetic). Done properly, it is not very painful. The Dr injects it in to the most tender and large trigger points, then gently massages in into the tissue. This results in a relaxing of the muscle tissue so that it has a better chance to heal.

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Babyace in Montclair, New Jersey

31 months ago

Sabrinawaterfield in Columbia City, Indiana said: I went and got a deep tissue massage today and am now in incredible amounts of pain. My husband went to hug me and at his touch on the middle of my back, he dropped me to my knees in intense pain. The only place it really hurts it the middle of my back between my shoulder blades. I have had deep tissue massages before but never had this kind of pain after one. Is this normal or should I seek medical treatment?[/QUOTE

Something went wrong, dont get Deep Tissue, try a Swedish with good pressure.

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Triggers in Brighton, United Kingdom

31 months ago

Hi everyone, some great insights here. I am wondering about something I have, I have these "crunchies" around my right boulder blade where I also have a trigger point. When I move my shoulder, I have this very loud clicking sound that happend, it feels like a relatively hard lump that clicks. It seems to be near the trigger point and Im not sure what it is. My trigger point is proving very difficult t get rid of and I think this grating, clicking thing is the problem.

Can anyone help me with this?

Thank you

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Hayley in Bradford, United Kingdom

30 months ago

Michelle in Salt Lake City, Utah said: Hi! I am a massage therapist and an instructor of massage. The cruchies around your shoulder are trigger points. It is actually your bodies way of trying to help you when your body mechanics are out of whack. Trigger points are connective tissure that form in all parts of your body when your body mechanics and/or mind are stressed. They will form and keep the circualtion away from that area, causing a build-up of sacarmeres (toxins), and will create pain either in the area or refer pain to another area.

Our bodies are strange, huh? I hope that this answers your question. The therapist should have been able to remove the trigger points and free up your shoulders.

Hi, I'm only 15 and I have crunches in the back of my neck, I get rid of the pain by pushi my fingers into it really hard but the about half an hour later it kills. Help?

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saintsfc in Southampton, United Kingdom

30 months ago

Chaka in Los Angeles, California said: Aloha! i am also a massage therapist..and yes your therapist was correct.. i just hope she told you the most important part of releasing the lactic acid is too drink plenty of water..because all that work put into releasing those trigger points is absolutley pointless if you dont flush out the toxins..otherwise the same lactic acids will build up at the same trigger points the next day....

alright mate, i have a weird strange crunchin squashing noise just on my right shoulder. it feels abit bigger then the other shoulder but looks the same? it feels weird at times same as my top right arm. i did do weights ages ago could i have caused sum water build up and bone crack or summing ? love to no about how the right shoulder works and how to make it stronger and healing it ???? thanks

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OhioLMT in Bowling Green, Ohio

30 months ago

Make sure to drink plenty of water after massage so toxins or "crunchies", as you call them, don't resettle and then you may be more sore than you were originally.

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Jrick in Valencia, Pennsylvania

30 months ago

DOCMAC22 in Asheville, North Carolina said: 1st of all No Massage Therapist is qualified to answer this question.

2nd most of these responses make me ashamed to be a Therapist, as the answers are all off base or just plain wrong.

3rd The person asking these questions obviously has knowledge of Physiology just read his question, and is apparently attempting to get people to step outside their realm of practice which those here sure did do. He even gives his own answer to the question in an apparent attempt to bait those here, his answer while also wrong did however work to get those to bite.

Lastly as a former RN I can take a stab, and say what all of us here should've said. REFER TO HIM TO HIS PRIMARY CARE PHYSICIAN. This issue is most likely Bursittis, and inflamation of a joint space or the depletion of a buffer between the bones which when moved make a sometimes audible grinding or poping sound, it's rarely painful and will possibly lead to arthittis in those effected joints.

By the way Lactic acid occurs in 2 scenarios, when a muscle is over worked and depleted all it's glucose stores (which is the reason you are sore after working out to hard or doing something that you haven't done in a long time), the other way lactic acid can form is due to inability to move or use a muscle / joint enough to allow O2 and adequate blood flow to nourish the area.

Lets keep it on the up and up here folks. We are care givers not miracle workers.

I can appreciate this answer. We should only be giving suggestions to our clients. However, doctors are not "miracle workers" either. No one is.

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Captain Crunchy in Dallas, Texas

29 months ago

MT student in Cumberland, Maryland said: Trigger points are very different from what I think of as "Crunchies." The "crunchies" as I have felt them in myself and in clients and as I have been taught about them feel like little bubbles popping under your fingers usually along edge of a bone e.g. scapula medial border or medial and lateral edge of fibula. One teacher told me no one knows for sure what they are, but in the book and DVD Myaofascial Trains the teacher says they are Calcium Lactate, but I haven't been able to find any confirmation for this.

I have found this about Calcium Lactate. www.livestrong.com/article/22077-calcium-lactate/

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ayeaye in La Porte, Indiana

27 months ago

I have that same problem around my jaw line,shoulders,chest,and neck....and when I push on those spots it feels like little bubbles popping and I don't know how to get rid of it

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VP-massage in Reading, United Kingdom

27 months ago

I have a client who has this same knotted, crunchy lumps right next to his scapula in the trapezius area and some on the inner aspect of the scapula. He has these more on his right shoulder than the left. He is a gardener and he uses his right arm more than the left. I have worked on him twice and whilst they ease off after the treatment, they come back the next time I see him.... obviously after he has been to work.
I have used gentle to firm pressure, thumbs and elbow... it was painful for him. Then I decided to just continue and give him a relaxing massage. I always advise my clients to drink plenty of water and give them stretching exercises.
The opinions expressed in here on this topic leaves one bemused as who is talking what. And, it looks like there will be no one single 'cure' for this.
If the situation continues with my client and he is having pains, I will ask him to either see a doctor or take it easy with his work. I am interested to see if he will stil have them now that we are approaching autumn and garden work will slow down and come to a halt.

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BIGREDLMT in Bowling Green, Kentucky

26 months ago

I came across this thread and thought I would pass this along:

www.massagetherapy.com/articles/index.php/article_id/502/The-Dreaded-Levator-Scapulae

The article link above is hosted by ABMP one of the largest massage therapy professional associations in the US. The article itself was written by Thomas Myers an internationally recognized authority on structural integration (a type of bodywork that corrects postural and structural imbalances). Tom spent time as an anatomy instructor at the Rolf Institute (the founding school of structural integration). He has since went on to found his own school of structural integration.

As far as the research behind the condition of crepitis (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crepitus) a.k.a. "crunchies"
Anything that is current in the research field regarding
massage therapy can be found by visiting www.massagetherapyfoundation.org/.

This post may be contrary to what a lot of previous posts on this subject listed and I hope it helps point some people towards actually dealing with the underlying issues of this condition. At first glance can be a simple explanation. This is an all to common condition and I believe it is important to move away from passed down old school myths and to actually offering people long term practical solutions. Nothing speaks louder than results.

For more info on fascia check out this article:

experiencelife.com/article/the-web-of-life/

I know there are a lot of links in this post and if you're serious about improving your condition there is more to it than a simple forum post can list. I really hope this helps.

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yoopermassagegirl in Marquette, Michigan

25 months ago

Joshua in Mill Valley, California said: I humbly suggest that everyone now look up the definition of 'trigger point'.

Hi there,
I was taught in massage school that trigger points were areas on the body that are tense and that have little knots that feel like buttons. When pressed or worked on, these areas of tension trigger pain to other parts of the body...hence the term "trigger point". Was this teaching incorrect?

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L.M.T. in Coatesville, Pennsylvania

17 months ago

BIGREDLMT in Bowling Green, Kentucky said: I came across this thread and thought I would pass this along:

www.massagetherapy.com/articles/index.php/article_id/502/The-Dreaded-Levator-Scapulae

The article link above is hosted by ABMP one of the largest massage therapy professional associations in the US. The article itself was written by Thomas Myers an internationally recognized authority on structural integration (a type of bodywork that corrects postural and structural imbalances). Tom spent time as an anatomy instructor at the Rolf Institute (the founding school of structural integration). He has since went on to found his own school of structural integration.

As far as the research behind the condition of crepitis ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crepitus ) a.k.a. "crunchies"
Anything that is current in the research field regarding
massage therapy can be found by visiting www.massagetherapyfoundation.org/ .

This post may be contrary to what a lot of previous posts on this subject listed and I hope it helps point some people towards actually dealing with the underlying issues of this condition. At first glance can be a simple explanation. This is an all to common condition and I believe it is important to move away from passed down old school myths and to actually offering people long term practical solutions. Nothing speaks louder than results.

For more info on fascia check out this article:

experiencelife.com/article/the-web-of-life/

I know there are a lot of links in this post and if you're serious about improving your condition there is more to it than a simple forum post can list. I really hope this helps.

Phenomenal Response!!! The best out of all!

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