Convicted Felon from Columbus OH, looking for work.

I'm a convicted felon, was convicted of "unlawful sexual misconduct". When I was 22 years old and in college, I went to a party, got drunk and went skinny dipping with a 16 year old girl, cops were called because the party got out of hand, I was caught in the pool with this girl and charged.

I know that's bad, but I am not some sicko or anything like that. I am now 30 years old, have two children aged 5 and 7 and a lovely wife, I love them all and want nothing more then to do the best I can to provide for them. Other then my felony conviction, I have never been in trouble before, never drink, never done drugs. I'm just a guy who really messed up 8 years ago.

Everybody does background checks these days, and I can't seem to get even the simplest of jobs. I went to school for two years, had a good GPA, was forced to quit and went to prison and served out one year. Been working in warehouses, mostly through temp services. Can at times, land a full time job until the employer finds out about my felony conviction. Lying on job applications seems the only way I can land a job, and that job usually will not last long. I have tried to tell the truth on many occasions, but ALWAYS get turned down. If there is anybody out their in my area willing to higher me for anything at all, please write me at

I will work for minimum wage if I need to.

If anyone would like to give me some advice, I would highly appreciate it. Thank you for your time.

Dan I understand and live your situation.
Within days of telling my x-wife I was going to file for custody of our children I was suddenly the subject of a sexual abuse accusation, obviously to most "her" insurance I would not succede. To make this short after being aressted for "Attempted Sexual Abuse", upon advise of my attorney accepted a "plea bargin" which was a felony but no prison, the basis for my acceptance as advised was that if I did not accept this it would go to trial and I would go to prison simply because it was "her" and her "female" friends word against mine and at the time the push against "sex crimes" was the political agenda.

Like you have, even though about eighteen years later, I have been turned down for every job I ever applied for and the laws pertaining to such make it virtually impossible to apply for a variety of available jobs.
There has to be a resolution so like you I ask if anyone can give "us" remedy for the situation please step up and help make our lives at least livable if not productive.

is that really the best email address to have after telling that story?

This is not a court of law. You cannot expect "us" to change your record nor provide much of a remedy.

Likewise, you cannot expect the average employer to do so either. They just don't have the time and resources to go investigate your case and give you psychological exams to determine whether your particular crime was really bad or just a stupid teenage mistake or divorce battle. You might very well be a decent person but unfortunately you are in that same group of people (felons) who HAVE actually done serious crimes.

You are now competing with all those people out there who were somehow able to live all their lives without ever being arrested for anything, much less a felony. If I were in your shoes, I'd do the opposite. Instead of trying to now fit into the normal society of job applicants, apply for jobs to places where they WILL consider your background in detail.

What about working in the prison system, for example? In that situation, the employer would be quite aware of whether your crime was serious or not and being professionals in that business would know whether you'd be able to successfully do the job.

There may be some job where you could use your mistake to help others, like as some sort of counselor to kids in the juvenile system and be able to tell them first hand what can happen if they continue on their path.

There may be some jobs like dispatcher for emergency services or something where you get the chance to sort of "put something back" into the society.

I am just guessing here, but certainly a job in such areas requires more than the cursory background check and because of that closer scrutiny, they may hire you because they know you are okay.

Obviously (given the two individual crimes listed above), you are not going to get jobs at the local home for unwed teenage mothers, but by the same token, you are not going to get jobs in normal corporate America either. Drug rehab counseling may be another possibility.

(edit) That's as a COUNSELOR to people who are in drug rehab...

Senior Citizen please forgive my lack of clarity, I did not mean to imply this being... "a court of law" nor imply..."expect "us" to change your record nor provide much of a remedy" but simply hopeing someone reading these forums could help shed some light on a productive and/or positive avenue.

On another note..."you cannot expect the average employer to do so either. They just don't have the time..." I do understand that but the transcript is public info and I have been told by numerous individuals that by reading the "statements by the accuser" the "underlying reasons" were fairly obvious however State laws and statutes forbid the employment because of the word "Felony" no matter the reasoning.

I do thank you for actually reading these posts and sharing your insight.

I do know that a bill was passed in the state of IL in favor of one time felons, (excerpt from the Chicago metropolis" "Barack Obama, then a state representative,introduced successful legislation to let ex-prisoners who were
guilty of just one felony get a certificate of rehabilitation and gain
easier access to occupational licensing. Now some 27 previously forbidden occupations are open to ex-felons and..."
but again information on this is not public knowledge nor accessible except via attorneys etc that involve spending thousands of dollars which obviously I cannot afford hence here I am.

Ok. What do you mean by a "productive and/or positive avenue? I posed what I thought were decent avenues. What fault did you find with those suggestions?

You still seem to have some sort of idea that we here in this forum have some secret information. Are you expecting someone to tell you the way to get around the laws of the country? If so, that kind of thinking is possibly what got you in such a situation that resulted in the felony arrest.

Were you given a fair trial? If not, appeal. If you WERE given a fair trial, then you committed the crime and were convicted appropriately.

The circumstances don't really matter when it comes to jobs that they don't want felons of ANY sort to have. They have their reasons. Besides, that is what a "felony" is - a crime that involves serious infraction of what society deems appropriate behavior. It isn't the crime as much as the errors in thinking that a felon has displayed. In essence there is proof you didn't think properly in the past and certain jobs won't allow that error or even the chance of that error being repeated.

If you were charged and your attorney advised you to accept the plea, then I can safely assume you were at fault and it seems you already were given a break by not actually having to serve time.

Most people would not do something that even could be mistaken for a criminal act. As example, most 22 year olds wouldn't even be at a party where some of the guests were under aged and people were drinking let alone get in the pool naked with the child as the other fellow mentioned.

Likewise, most people would find a way to get divorced and walk away as friends with no animosity nor need for accusations of abuse of any sort. That is just the way the world is.

Dennis in Milmine, Illinois said: .. this is not public knowledge nor accessible except via attorneys etc that involve spending thousands of dollars which obviously I cannot afford hence here I am.

I see now. I missed this part above. You basically are asking for this information without paying the appropriate attorney fees nor being in that group it applies to perhaps. Erroneous thinking, man. Why should you get it for free?

It basically comes down to the fact that life isn't always a piece of cake. A poor person born with a crooked nose may never get the money to have plastic surgery and you may never get the money to have access to that list of situations or whatever it is (you weren't that clear).

Senior Citizen in Atlanta, Georgia said: Ok. What do you mean by a "productive and/or positive avenue? I posed what I thought were decent avenues. What fault did you find with those suggestions?

I found no fault in your suggestions and as previously stated appreciate the insight.

Senior Citizen in Atlanta, Georgia said: You still seem to have some sort of idea that we here in this forum have some secret information.

Obviously again my lack of clarity, I did not mean to imply I think everyone here would have "secret information" but simple hope that someone that reads may happen to know of something that just might possibly help, as with you some of your suggestions I had not considered.

Senior Citizen in Atlanta, Georgia said: Are you expecting someone to tell you the way to get around the laws of the country? If so, that kind of thinking is possibly what got you in such a situation that resulted in the felony arrest.

I most certainly do not.

Senior Citizen in Atlanta, Georgia said: If you were charged and your attorney advised you to accept the plea, then I can safely assume you were at fault and it seems you already were given a break by not actually having to serve time.

Hence the problem, your statement is how most perceive this situation and as I previously stated [QUOTE]the basis for my acceptance as advised was that if I did not accept this it would go to trial and I would go to prison simply because it was "her" and her "female" friends word against mine...but was that sound advise, I thought so at the time, considering the situation, the experience and knowledge of said attorney and the thought of my children being without a father. I would ask anyone [rhetorical]"what would they have done in that situation?", well I say "rhetorical" because I don't think anyone could give an accurately honest answer unless they were thrust into the pressure of that situation. Seems I have no space left.

continued...

Senior Citizen in Atlanta, Georgia said: I see now. I missed this part above. You basically are asking for this information without paying the appropriate attorney fees nor being in that group it applies to perhaps. Erroneous thinking, man. Why should you get it for free? It basically comes down to the fact that life isn't always a piece of cake. A poor person born with a crooked nose may never get the money to have plastic surgery and you may never get the money to have access to that list of situations or whatever it is (you weren't that clear).

Well thanks to the "Freedom of Information" act said information is free but for the general public where to access this information is not disclosed. And you are most certainly correct nothing is life is free but I've been paying for 18 years for spoken words of deceit from a conniving *****ex that..( I cannot continue with that)
I might add though, meaningless perhaps(but means a lot to me), that within one year I did follow through with the custody suit and the Judge, after speaking to "her" and reading the transcript of afore mentioned and saying her "actions were blatantly malevolent", did in fact award me custody of my children as well as an order of protection to keep "her" out of our lives.
With that being said, I am done with this conversation, it is very depressing to think about especially compiling the added comments of disbelief.
I do thank you for your time and input.

Senior citizen,I understand your generation was a bit more honest and trustworthy but you got to take into account there are 300 million some people in this country.Alot of people doing alot of things out there with nobody finding out.Alot of people throw around the term "felony" very easily.When your charged/convicted with they talk about tha crime as "feloniously" committed the crime meaning you knew ,at the time of, what you where doing and that it is in fact a crime.So if you lit a house on fire and knew you were doing so and knew that lighting a house on fire is illegal then you were commiting a "felony".Now lets take misdemeanors like DUI's,millions of people drive drunk every day to think otherwise is nieve.If you don't believe me go to a bar and count people how many drinks they,ve had in what time frame,then remember that all the people you saw leave drunk is only one bar in one state in this entire country on one night,but legally your (not literally you)trying to tell me that they didn't know that they were drunk,when they were,and that they didn't know that drinking and driving was illegal?So that shouldn't be a felony?Also think of some things that are felonies that are maybe to much.Like when I was a teenager me and my friends picked up smoking as is very,very common around the country.Well if one of us was 18yrs old and they other 17yrs. old and they 18yr old bought the 17yr old a pack that is a class 6 felony "contributing to the delinquency of a minor"Does that mean that for the rest of his life he should be distrusted all because in highschool he bought his friend a pack?!

I'm in a similar boat when I was 18 I committed a felony for which I had several yrs. probation,payed restitution,took hundreds of UAs went to a 90 day in house rehabilitation program with 8hr a day of classes, after 90 days I had 500hrs of rehab.thats an associates degree in rehab ,plus had to do more after that its been 7yrs and still have very hard problems getting jobs.There are hundreds of companies that specialize in information that provide background checks for companies large and small.In fact any idiot who goes down to the county court house can,for a small fee,print off and take home your "criminal records"But of course companies don't care to or have to give us the time of day.So the same thinking I had as a Criminal like,"Its ok to do if I don't get caught,They owe it to me anyway" Isn't any better then managers,HRs,and corporate fat cats sitting in theirs officies "playing god" all because they act like they,ve never ever made a mistake?!!! We are people too,treat us so!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You have it all wrong. It isn't a matter of a few individuals defining the word felony. Certain crimes are designated felonies and thereby have certain penalties that are more severe accordingly. All this has been voted on by the society as a whole (those 300 million people) and it has been decided that such people may not be trustworthy in certain situations such as employment.

The biggest mistake a felon makes is that he/she has erroneous thinking processes and the felon has ACTED upon that bad thinking and has been dealt the appropriate punishment of the society as we have all agreed upon.

Everybody makes mistakes, sure, but few people make such big mistakes as to be convicted of a felony.

"Does that mean that for the rest of his life he should be distrusted all because in highschool he bought his friend a pack?!"

Absolutely. Every one of us has been in that situation and all but a few have decided NOT to break that law. That is the beauty of laws. You don't have to contemplate the parameters. All you have to know is what is and what is not legal.

Senior Citizen in Atlanta, Georgia said: "Does that mean that for the rest of his life he should be distrusted all because in highschool he bought his friend a pack?!"

Absolutely. Every one of us has been in that situation and all but a few have decided NOT to break that law. That is the beauty of laws. You don't have to contemplate the parameters. All you have to know is what is and what is not legal.

In case that sounds too harsh allow me to explain. In any such situation lines have to be drawn somewhere. It is not a matter of whether the 17 year old was being exposed to delinquency so much as it was the 18 year old holding court on the street and deciding for himself that the law did not apply. In essence, you left the other 289,999,999 people out of the decision. That is a lot of opinions to just ignore. If we all wanted to change that law in some way, we could but until we do, that is where the line is drawn.

(edit) 299,999,999 people

See? I just ignored ten million people with a simple mistake. :)

Gee whiz!!! I think even Wally and the beav are more high risk than you.It is a small percentage of the people making all the laws,its simple math.take all the senators and congressman from every state and compare that to the population.Yes we elect officals we trust to make laws but how many of us.let alone the ones who didn't even vote,have the time or the inclination on a day to day basis to be intimatly familiar with all the proposals and laws in your city,county,state and federal goverment.If you saw a law that was about to be passed that you disagreed with would you really,Could you really at the drop of a hat tell your boss that you had to have a couple of days off to go to washington because you had to stop a law from being passed.

I,ve met many supervisors and managers who all made the same or similar mistakes when they were young.Thats just it though.Do you really think that when the 18yr old is about to give the 17yr old a smoke that he a.) tells him he'd like to but thats against the law and if he wants to smoke he'll just have to wait,or b.) say wait a minute is that really fair to the 299,999,999 that voted that into law?Far from!!!!!Don't get me wrong I respect the fact that you are a good law abiding citizen theres nothing wrong with that,but got to think how they think.Many people all have similar stories,"oh yeah my parents caught me and my friend drinking and smoking"but did they call the cops?Most of the time not,they just got grounded or something,but what would we have then?Parents thinking"The fact that my son or daughter broke the law doesn't mean I have to get the police involved,I mean I just don't see what the other 299,999,997 hav to do with this"But then we have the parents with aiding and abiding a felon,noe 10,20 or 30yrs later all scoff and raise their nose at me when I apply to work where they are supervisor,manager or the owners of a business

So many people out there have at one time or another committed crime to some degree the only difference they never got caught.I understand that you can't enforce something that you can't prove against a person but that doesn't mean that I'm any less qualified or more of a risk than anyone else just because some old piece of paper says so.Heck even our own president used to do cocaine!I understand that convicted murders,rapists etc. but lessor "felonies" at some point you got to forgive and forget!

In my opinion, that point of "forgive and forget" is precisely the sort of idea from which those legal lines were drawn. The demarcation of such a limit is where the law says in effect that up to here is where we are willing to forgive and forget and anything beyond this point we cannot just toss away.

I have been in the exact scenario described and just told the minor, "you are too young to smoke." Another approach might be to just say, "Look, man, I know it doesn't matter but we can both get in a lot of trouble if I buy the smokes for you."

I have thought about this whole idea many times and have come to the conclusion that the solution is to avoid the edges in life. In this particular scenario, don't even smoke around friends who are too young to do so and you won't be faced with that difficult choice.

my advice to you guys is simple. there are jobs out there that you can obtain. jobs like construction, restaurants, cleaning, landscaping etc. you can put this all behind you to a certain extent. I am a felon myself, i did very unlawful things to maintain a pesky meth habbit and i have done my time, go to AA meetings and take care of myself these days. I am going to school and i am very busy, it keeps me out of trouble. Try working at small businesses where they don't do background checks, sorry but you will never work at norad or be trusted by people right away, you have to earn and build that kind of thing with people, it is not just given freely to you. Start your own business something simple, like trash removal, landscaping, yard service, cleaning. Or learn a trade. Stop feeling sorry for yourself. These are things that i had to do to move on, the most important one was stop feeling defeated and stop having my pitty party. I hope my bluntness does not skew my message i hope you succeed and thrive, but you have to work at it and have faith that it will be okay.

I agree with the above poster, there is nothing you can do to change your past. You must believe that their is some employment available to you as I am certain there is. I think starting at a temp agency might be an avenue also. It might be a good idea to start with a company as a temp, do a good job and show your employer you are responsible and you may be surprised by being offered a decent permanent job.
I wish you weren't having such a difficult time, but please don't think everyone in the world is against you. I currently work with several ex-felons and would never have guessed if they hadn't told me. I think they are okay people who have made some mistakes.

To Dan, with record 8 years ago of a felony conviction, who is now 30, married with children & asking for advice as to how to get work with his record:

Hello Dan,

Many unions offer apprenticeship programs where you are paid while you learn a trade. Look in the phone book and contact all of the unions. I know of one convicted felon who recently got out of prison and the Electrical Workers union told him they have many ex-felons who went through the apprenticeship program & became electricians.

I hope this helps.

To Dan:

Also, find out if you're able to get your criminal record expunged (you'd need an attorney to do this), but if your state maintains a registry for convicted sex offenders, your record might still show up there. People seek expungement for a variety of reasons. Some simply wish to remove an embarrassing blot from their personal history. Others want to have their right to vote reinstated or to own a firearm so they can hunt. If you want a government job, an expungement would probably still bar you from such work. However, it'd be best to be honest up front & tell the employer the truth. If you can demonstrate your need to expunge your record in addition to being able to prove you've been completely rehabilitated, chances are a judge would rule in your favor. Every state's expungement laws differ so you should research your state laws. A college law library reference librarian could help you with this.
Expungement isn't the only option available to people who wish to clear their criminal records. Most jurisdictions have systems whereby people can apply for pardons.
See here for more info on pardons & expungements:

www.expertlaw.com/library/criminal/criminal_record.html

I agree with Beth. Your best bet is to try and get your Criminal record expunged . We live in a World of Political correctness and not that of common sense. We are quick to condem a person for a minor mistake rather than look at each case individuly. Sometimes we see things in Black & White and ignore the Gray areas of a case. Most court appointed attorneys are taught to have their client plea guilty. It saves time and avoids lengthy court cost. Severe over crowding in the Prison systom usually will allow the Judge to grant the defendant Probation if this was his or her first offence.
One thing the Attorney never conveys to his client is that he will carry this burden on his record the rest of his life. In a sense I was lucky to have my cartheft conviction expunged after 10 years, thanks to the forthought of the Judge. I had just returned from a tour in Viet Nam and decided to have a few beers with some old friends. On a bet we decided to borrow a neighbors car and go on a joy ride. That joy ride land up costing me 2 1/2 years of my life. I pleaded guilty and was sentenced to 3 years. When I got out I was given a Suit and $50 . I was told that I was to find a place to live and have a job in 2 weeks or I would violate probation. Thanks to Vocational Rehabilitation of Virginia I manage to get an appreticeship job and some new cloths . I have never looked back and managed to have a family . After 10 years my conviction was expunged. My conviction was a felony because I crossed into another State 1 mile away.
Without that record being expunged would have most like ruined the rest of my life..good luck friend!!

Dan in Columbus, Ohio said: I’m a convicted felon, was convicted of “unlawful sexual misconduct”. When I was 22 years old and in college, I went to a party, got drunk and went skinny dipping with a 16 year old girl, cops were called because the party got out of hand, I was caught in the pool with this girl and charged.

I know that’s bad, but I am not some sicko or anything like that. I am now 30 years old, have two children aged 5 and 7 and a lovely wife, I love them all and want nothing more then to do the best I can to provide for them. Other then my felony conviction, I have never been in trouble before, never drink, never done drugs. I’m just a guy who really messed up 8 years ago.

Everybody does background checks these days, and I can’t seem to get even the simplest of jobs. I went to school for two years, had a good GPA, was forced to quit and went to prison and served out one year. Been working in warehouses, mostly through temp services. Can at times, land a full time job until the employer finds out about my felony conviction. Lying on job applications seems the only way I can land a job, and that job usually will not last long. I have tried to tell the truth on many occasions, but ALWAYS get turned down. If there is anybody out their in my area willing to higher me for anything at all, please write me at

I will work for minimum wage if I need to.

If anyone would like to give me some advice, I would highly appreciate it. Thank you for your time.

Car salesmen. They are very understanding.

Our society is quick to associate the word felon with murderer, rapist, burglar, etc; I used to do it too. Then I spent about 6 months Correctional Institution in 2001. The entire population held the same disdain for those convicted of sex offenses, thievery and murder (in that order) just like society does on the outside. The majority of the other inmates were there for drug offenses or for violating probation stemming from drug offenses.

Felons are pigeonholed as violent, unimaginable offenders, similar to what we see on television and that's just not the case. I am not trying to minimize the seriousness of non-violent offenses; I take them very seriously. But there shouldn't be an overall classification summarizing all felons of the same moral turpitude. It's serving a life sentence for presumably having poor moral character.

Any professional tract a felon would like to seek is quashed not by the employer, but by the regulatory third party agencies that define said profession. i.e. CPA, CFA, MAAA, Series, etc.

These types of accreditations and certifications are commonplace and a natural succession for someone with a degree in Finance. These professional licensing requirements prohibiting felons circumvent The Fair Employment Act put in place to prevent the discrimination of felons by employers. Obviously, if someone is convicted of an offense relative to the proposed career, that is a concern, but I've found that all felons are excluded under the false pretenses that it will somehow bolster the integrity and code of these third party regulatory agencies and their respective professions. The recent accounting and back dating options scandals are evidence enough that despite efforts to filter ill-intentioned persons, you can not predict or prevent man's free will

I am sure the murderers also think they are not that bad because they aren't sex offenders. The fact of the matter is, that whatever it was that lands someone in prison, it means it was bad enough for that person to need to be physically removed from society for a period of time. The hope is that they would come to the realization that by finding themselves in the same place as people who perpetrated even more violent acts, they would learn that their behavior was just as bad.

Im glad that you agree with me in that there are different echelons of offenses. Therefore, all felons should not be branded or ostracized by society in the same manner.

Senior Citizen in Atlanta, Georgia said: You have it all wrong. It isn't a matter of a few individuals defining the word felony. Certain crimes are designated felonies and thereby have certain penalties that are more severe accordingly. All this has been voted on by the society as a whole (those 300 million people) and it has been decided that such people may not be trustworthy in certain situations such as employment.

The biggest mistake a felon makes is that he/she has erroneous thinking processes and the felon has ACTED upon that bad thinking and has been dealt the appropriate punishment of the society as we have all agreed upon.

Everybody makes mistakes, sure, but few people make such big mistakes as to be convicted of a felony.

"Does that mean that for the rest of his life he should be distrusted all because in highschool he bought his friend a pack?!"

Absolutely. Every one of us has been in that situation and all but a few have decided NOT to break that law. That is the beauty of laws. You don't have to contemplate the parameters. All you have to know is what is and what is not legal.

You are ignorant. It is people like you who make this world the way it is. He w/o sin let him cast the first stone. People can and do change. Yes, they broke the law, and paid their debt. So that means for the rest of their life, they will not be able to get ahead and lead a fulfilling life because people like you have this idiotic mentality. Society has designed the system where convicted felons end up back in jail. This is how society wants it. They are afraid of the progress people can make once they decide to change their life. If God can forgive, why can't society?

AJS in Milwaukee, Wisconsin said: Im glad that you agree with me in that there are different echelons of offenses. Therefore, all felons should not be branded or ostracized by society in the same manner.

No you misunderstood if you thought I was agreeing with you. I believe ALL felons are equally as bad. I was only saying that among the felons, different ones think of themselves (erroneously) as being better than other felons. Someone who is in prison is as bad as anyone else who is in prison. The drug offenders are equally as disgusting as the murderers and the sex offenders. They have all crossed that line into the realm of having done something so bad they have to be removed from society.

If there were ANY echelons, I personally believe a drug offender is worse than a murderer. A person who murders usually kills only one other person in a conscious anger whereas a drug offender is part of a sub-culture that cold blooded and anonymously destroys many different peoples' lives.

lbattle0271 in Brookfield, Illinois said: It is people like you who make this world the way it is. He w/o sin let him cast the first stone.

Yes. It IS people like me (law abiding citizens) who make the rules to cast out people who commit crimes. As for being without "sin" in that respect, I am without the sin of ever having been arrested for anything during my entire life nor ever having done anything for which I could have been arrested.

lbattle0271 in Brookfield, Illinois said: People can and do change. ...people like you have this idiotic mentality.

Such people do NOT change because they not only have been taught that committing such crimes can wreck a person's life and should not be done, they erroneously still believe that it is an "idiotic mentality" that leads one to obey the laws.

lbattle0271 in Brookfield, Illinois said: If God can forgive, why can't society?

Society is not a God. Society is made up of just ordinary humans who have banded together and decided among themselves what they wish to be proper behavior. Those who do not comply deserve to be ostracized. Make many mistakes or even one big one such as a felony and you no longer fit into the society.

Hi Charles - you're missing the argument.

lbattle0271 in Brookfield, Illinois said: It is people like you who make this world the way it is. He w/o sin let him cast the first stone.

Yes. It IS people like me (law abiding citizens) who make the rules to cast out people who commit crimes. As for being without "sin" in that respect, I am without the sin of ever having been arrested for anything during my entire life nor ever having done anything for which I could have been arrested.

You erroneously (your favorite word) assume legislature is defines the moral compass. If you believe that you are without sin because you've never violated man's law - god have mercy on your soul.

lbattle0271 in Brookfield, Illinois said: People can and do change. ...people like you have this idiotic mentality.

Such people do NOT change because they not only have been taught that committing such crimes can wreck a person's life and should not be done, they erroneously still believe that it is an "idiotic mentality" that leads one to obey the laws.

According to the "'people' who make the rules to cast out people who commit crimes", violaters are "rehabilitated" after serving their sentence. You're missing the argument - violaters should be punished for the period of time prescribed the the laws defining their crime. Society chooses to continue that punishment by disenfranchisement and ostracization - not because of legislature.

lbattle0271 in Brookfield, Illinois said: If God can forgive, why can't society?

Society is not a God. Society is made up of just ordinary humans who have banded together and decided among themselves what they wish to be proper behavior. Those who do not comply deserve to be ostracized. Make many mistakes or even one big one such as a felony and you no longer fit into the society.

Should be osracized forever ? Or just for time society (legislature)has presribed suitable to 'rehabilite'

ajs in Milwaukee, Wisconsin said: Hi Charles - you're missing the argument.

No. I am not missing the argument, I am just not going to roll over and take another point of view just because someone says I am ignorant or I have agreed with them when it is not the fact.

Legislature has determined only the length of time where an offender has to be physically removed from said society (prison) or has to be monitored more closely than normal citizens (parole). Society still has its own judgments of a person's character. A person who has no record of trouble with the law is considered a "fine upstanding citizen" whereas a person who has committed crimes in the past is not such a great citizen and cannot be trusted the same as a normal person.

It is a matter of character. If a person is ever arrested or sent to do time in a jail or prison, their character is damaged forever and they will never again be completely a normal part of society.

"Rehabilitation" only means the violator has been adjusted back to the point where they are not so dangerous as to have to be removed from normal society and can be released back into it. It does not mean the person is now squeaky clean and as good as any other citizen. If that were the case then it would make perfect sense to erase the record of the arrest and conviction as soon as the person was released from custody, wouldn't it?

If a person proves their value to society once more by a few years or whatever of good behavior, then they may be deemed "normal" citizens once more by appearing before a judge and having their record expunged. This is not possible for some crimes no matter what the behavior.

The definition of the word "criminal" is a person who has committed a crime. That act of commitment is history and cannot be changed, therefore the person can be regarded forever as a criminal in the literal sense.

(cont'd)

(cont'd)

That is the part of the argument that the criminal mind misses. That is what leads them to commit the crime in the first place because they don't see it as a permanent act. They think they will get away with it and that will mean it never happened or they think that even if arrested for the crime they will someday get out of incarceration and be normal again.

Committing any crime is like getting a tattoo. It is fairly permanent and it takes a lot to have it removed from your life.

I received this by Email...thought it was interesting enough for this debate on morality.

And Finally, can you imagine working for a company that has a
little more than 500 employees and has the following statistics:

* 29 have been accused of spousal abuse

* 7 have been arrested for fraud

* 19 have been accused of writing bad checks

* 117 have directly or indirectly bankrupted at least 2
businesses

* 3 have done time for assault

* 71 cannot get a credit card due to bad credit

* 14 have been arrested on drug-related charges

* 8 have been arrested for shoplifting

* 21 are currently defendants in lawsuits

* 84 have been arrested for drunk driving in the last year...

Can you guess which organization this is?

Give up yet?

It's the 535 members of the United States Congress.

The same group that crank out hundreds of new laws each year
designed to keep Americans in line.

If a person proves their value to society once more by a few years or whatever of good behavior, then they may be deemed "normal" citizens once more by appearing before a judge and having their record expunged.

my work is done here.

Dan,

Don't let mistakes you've made define who you are. Don't allow others to devalue you as a citizen for those mistakes. The most important: focus on jobs and careers that you CAN DO, not those that you can't.
Keep your head up and do the best you can. Your every day interactions will ultimately define who you are.
Best wishes to you and your family!
AJS

Dan in Columbus, Ohio said: I’m a convicted felon, was convicted of “unlawful sexual misconduct”. When I was 22 years old and in college, I went to a party, got drunk and went skinny dipping with a 16 year old girl, cops were called because the party got out of hand, I was caught in the pool with this girl and charged.

I know that’s bad, but I am not some sicko or anything like that. I am now 30 years old, have two children aged 5 and 7 and a lovely wife, I love them all and want nothing more then to do the best I can to provide for them. Other then my felony conviction, I have never been in trouble before, never drink, never done drugs. I’m just a guy who really messed up 8 years ago.

Everybody does background checks these days, and I can’t seem to get even the simplest of jobs. I went to school for two years, had a good GPA, was forced to quit and went to prison and served out one year. Been working in warehouses, mostly through temp services. Can at times, land a full time job until the employer finds out about my felony conviction. Lying on job applications seems the only way I can land a job, and that job usually will not last long. I have tried to tell the truth on many occasions, but ALWAYS get turned down. If there is anybody out their in my area willing to higher me for anything at all, please write me at

I will work for minimum wage if I need to.

If anyone would like to give me some advice, I would highly appreciate it. Thank you for your time.

Hey I am in the same boat, it's wrong we can't get a good job even though it was years ago we should get together and change this process so we can get on with our lives

Isn't it funny that people will forgive convicts but if someone gets injured at work or loses their job,and their credit gets ruined then they are blacklisted for getting jobs because of stupid credit checks.

I agree. There simply are not enough opportunities for convicted felons to get on with their lives. Sometimes the nature of the crime needs to be taken into account, and people need to be given a chance. Companies are simply too afraid of being burned, or being held liable.

And what's with the credit checks for jobs anyway!? My husband's perfect credit was completely ruined in a divorce 6 years ago. We're trying to clean it up, but I'm shocked that potential jobs ask to run credit checks on him. As long as he's not been convicted of any type of fraud or theft (his record is totally clean), why do they need this information?

Dan in Columbus, Ohio said: I’m a convicted felon, was convicted of “unlawful sexual misconduct”. When I was 22 years old and in college, I went to a party, got drunk and went skinny dipping with a 16 year old girl, cops were called because the party got out of hand, I was caught in the pool with this girl and charged.

I know that’s bad, but I am not some sicko or anything like that. I am now 30 years old, have two children aged 5 and 7 and a lovely wife, I love them all and want nothing more then to do the best I can to provide for them. Other then my felony conviction, I have never been in trouble before, never drink, never done drugs. I’m just a guy who really messed up 8 years ago.

Everybody does background checks these days, and I can’t seem to get even the simplest of jobs. I went to school for two years, had a good GPA, was forced to quit and went to prison and served out one year. Been working in warehouses, mostly through temp services. Can at times, land a full time job until the employer finds out about my felony conviction. Lying on job applications seems the only way I can land a job, and that job usually will not last long. I have tried to tell the truth on many occasions, but ALWAYS get turned down. If there is anybody out their in my area willing to higher me for anything at all, please write me at

I will work for minimum wage if I need to.

If anyone would like to give me some advice, I would highly appreciate it. Thank you for your time.

Try Capital City Staffing on Livingston and james rd. they hire ex-felons. It may take a little time and you have to call everyday but, they are good.

once again, "good" people prove their lack of knowledge. all felons should be treated the same? too bad they can't work to bad they can't return to normal life too bad they bad they paid their dues. all felons huh, for example in illinois if you do not sign an automobile title, it is considered an open title, A CLASS 4 FELONY" so you can be denied all of your rights, lose emplyment etc etc etc, SAME as any other felon. same as what every person here previously spoke of. duh, you people live in a sheltered world, head in the sand. please turn off your television for obviously your brain is turning to mush. if someone is convicted of a felony, you might end up with them on welfare. maybe they should all just be put in prison for life, for that is what it is, a life sentence. Forgiveness, yeah right. from a bunch of two face lying backstabbing hypocrites.

First, see if the record can be expunged.

If not, my suggestion is to try smaller companies. National and regional firms have much stricter rules re: who they can hire.

Small firms don't have to be ones that just have a few employees - the definition of a "Small Business" is broader than that. Local firms may look more at who the person is, versus what he or she may have done before.
They can be more flexible and some are more focused on the "here and now."

It is, however, important that if you were to contact these businesses that you be up front about your situation. Not only is this fair and decent, but also it saves you time. If someone is to say "no," you can hear that up front rather than go through a long process and wonder if/when something from the past may "catch up" to you.

That's exactly what it is a life sentence! It has been 4.5 years since I was convicted did 6 months time 1 year of intensive probation and it still messes with my life everyday, all I do is work to provide for my family but finding a decent job is out of the question at least one that is stable. I am currently laid off and can't seem to get a decent job of any kind making enough money to pay the bills! A thought is contract jobs alot of those companies don't care if your a felon as long as you can pass a drug test, depands on the kind of work though! Check jobhtsheets.com it's more skilled trades if you have any!

felonies cannot be expunged in illinois. we can at least vote, not like florida. being upfront just closes the door. as mike stated, it is a life sentence. there is no such thing as dues having been paid. new laws in illinois are pushing for more background checks. carnival workers in illinois now have to go through the background check. and while most people don't care what happens to people in prison or when they get out, several things happen. first a huge change of heart when it happens to someone in their house or family. two, prison sure creates a lot of monsters. three, no work or job, big surprise they turn to crime to eat, and back to jail. can't have most business's due to background check. can't do work for any government like driving a tow truck. can't own a tavern, can't run for any local office can't participate in the pursuit of happiness. can't be a notary public. can't pass background for plumbers, cable tv repair, hell, can't even hardly mow grass. SO, all you tree hugging, liberal minded, democrat voting, hypocritical hand wringing do gooders need to stop blowing smoke up our keester, it's all lies!!!!! what will happen when you folks push someone so far that they feel they have nothing to lose?

The real issue here is EVERYONE needs to stop and think have I never done anything punishable by law, but just never got caught! How many People reading this have driven after they had a few drinks but never got caught, that holds jail time, how many people have taken prescription motrin for headache, but it wasn't prescribed to them. Or smoked weed even when they were younger, never got caught but punishable by law. How many of us were partying underage, but never got caught and punished for underage drinking. Or even trespassed to look at some thing cool, I could go on all day! So those people if caught should be punished and paid for it their entire lives regaurdless of how long ago it was and what kind of quality of life they have been trying to lead since the "crime" EVERYONE makes mistakes or finds themselves in a situation of some sort of "crime" at some point in their lives some convicted some never caught, the never caght are more scarey to me they think they can get away with it, than the ones who were caught did their time and truely change for the better! We live a society that force you to resort back to horrible things because it don't allow you to be honest about your mistakes and move on. You do your time, consider it a learning experience and prove yourself to society, no one should be held back from that, if they truely turned their lives around for the good.

underthemansthumb in Bourbonnais, Illinois said: can't have most business's due to background check. can't do work for any government like driving a tow truck. can't own a tavern, can't run for any local office can't participate in the pursuit of happiness. can't be a notary public. can't pass background for plumbers, cable tv repair, hell, can't even hardly mow grass. ...

I find the really good thing about this particular discussion is how it teaches people who may contemplate committing a crime that to do so will result in more punishment than just a few months in jail.

underthemansthumb in Bourbonnais, Illinois said: what will happen when you folks push someone so far that they feel they have nothing to lose?

And here again we see the criminal mind at work. When all else fails, they resort to threats and violence. It is not so much the crimes committed or the facts of being caught or not as it is the defective way of thinking that causes the criminal element to be shunned.

As has been said many times - Crime does not pay. Whatever the crime committed, it is a record of proof that you have finally been identified as a person not really fit to be a part of normal society ever again.

As for all the "I got a family and a mortgage crap, that is no valid reason to expect acceptance for a job. Any cow can have a baby and anyone over the age of eighteen can sign a contract. It doesn't make you a model citizen by any means.

Mike said: EVERYONE makes mistakes or finds themselves in a situation of some sort of "crime" at some point in their lives

That is simply not true. You would like to believe it is, because it makes you seem more normal but the facts are that most people do not find themselves anywhere near a criminal situation.

If most people were as you'd like to believe, then it would make sense that most of those people would vote to not deny people employment because of past criminal history. The society would be more lenient and you wouldn't be here complaining.

You don't have people here complaining that they can't get jobs or be accepted into normal society because they have been caught donating to some charity or because they have put their kids through college or because they have created a successful business that employs a lot of good people or because they have been a leader in the community or because they used to be the mayor of a town many years ago, etc, etc?? That's because we have all voted that those are acceptable things and have voted that criminal acts are unacceptable things.