College Degree Not What It Used To Be...

I, like many of you who visit this forum am currently unemployed. I have a Bachelors degree that never opened any doors for me in regards to employment in my field of study and I have been under/unemployed since graduating from college over 10 years ago.

Both of my parents have degrees in education (both have their Master's) and I was one of the many who was taught/ grew up to belive in the premise that if you want to be succesful in life you need a college education. In this economy it seems like a degree is worthless unless a)you have experience in your field of study, and/or b) you graduated from college with a degree in a field of study that is in high demand-namely Health Care (a few years ago I would have included education, but now there are even cutbacks in hiring that area).

In this economy, with most of the actual available jobs not requiring a college degree (customer service, retail, etc)and in some cases not even paying above $8 an hour I would like to know if there are any users on this forum who have college degrees and have applied to/work(ed) in such jobs.

As I have stated in another forum, I previously worked in a customer service environment and though I never verbally expresesed it, I often had difficulty relating to my lesser educated co-workers. I always knew (or at least thought)that someday I would find a better position than my co-workers and that I was not going to stay in my position for the rest of my life (except for one person who was later terminated, I never told anyone I had a college degree). I eventually resigned/gave my two weeks notification from that job for numerous reasons.

Though I have some friends who are not college graduates, the majority of my friends are people I went to college with(I hated jr. high/high school and all the cliques and couldn't wait to leave it behind). I had always expected to be employeed in a capacity where my co-workers also had college degrees, or at least the ability/acumen to get

College Degree Not What It Used To Be... Cont.

one if they were financially able to do so.

The other day I was reading a discussion on CNN Money regarding college graduates and the lack of jobs for them. Several commentors were chastizing the graduates who said they did not want to take lesser paying jobs. Many commentors told graduates to "suck it up" get over your pride and apply for those jobs anyway. Many commentors also seemed to have the attitude that people who couldn't find jobs that matched their education should expect to "serve" the ones who are gainfully employed.

I have a friend who thinks like some of the commentors in the previous paragraph, and he often tells me to apply at customer service/retail positions. I have had many a heated discussion about the subject with him. I have always cited, low pay, horrible hours (sorry, I am one of the few people my age that still believes Sunday is for Church and family and relaxing-I don't patronize stores on Sundays either), lack of room for advancement and high turnover rates as reasons not to apply, as well as my introversive personality (I have a post on that on another forum).

Is it (as some stated on the CNN page) a myth that employers do not hire college graduates for poitions that don't requrire a college degree? I am not looking for a future position as a customer service/retail/store/multi-store manager-I don't have a degree in accounting/business or finance.

I am tired of this service oriented economy where every business/job is run like a 24 hour/7-11 to meet customer needs. I am one who wishes things were like they were in the "old days" where a single income was all that was needed to take care of a family-thus negating the need for places to be open nights, weekends etc.

I don't want to spend my life working with people who cannot obtain a higher education due to the fact that they are lazy and/or stupid.

I definitely agree with you. A college degree is worth absolutely nothing these days. I spent 5 years at a State University racking up thousands of dollars in debt only to land a job that pays $13.50 an hour. And it took me almost 8 months to get this job! Quite frankly, I am living like a bumb. Why? Because I got almost $25,000 in student loans and a credit card with a $2,000 balance. If someone would have told me 5 years ago that I'd be making $13.50 an hour after graduation, I would have never gone to college. I mean never.

I know someone at Walmart who said they were hiring for Graveyard Maintanance that paid $10 an hour. It was a tempting offer but I declined to fill out an application for that position. Why? To save face. I had a BA Degree and I couldn't tell my parents that Walmart was the best I could do. Honestly, I didn't do much better than Walmart since I got a job that pays only $3.50 more. But at least I got to save face.

Experience is what has separated myself and a couple of my friends in the sciences/tech industry in terms of job stability. I completely understand your frustation and anger towards the system for spewing the rhetoric "degree == job".

It isn't the fact that the degree is literally worthless, but college grads with a degree and no work exp won't get you an interview, recession or not. HRs have this crazy notion that "degree somehow translates to StarBucks Barista"..

During my college years, my friends and I worked low-paying/no benefits-having apprentice/internship positions relative to our perspective fields. We found work, while still low-paying, but that is what the 20s is for, to pay your dues, and get senior/mid-level positions in the 30s and whatnot. And we didn't get the jobs right after graduation, it took us 6-9 months with XP/Degree/Good GPA/No criminal record and good credit all before the economy died.. :(

People still get jobs with a mere BA, BS, but the degree itself won't get your foot in the door at all. You have to get experience, otherwise you'll be stuck.

Tim_Johnson in Los Angeles, California said: I definitely agree with you. A college degree is worth absolutely nothing these days. I spent 5 years at a State University racking up thousands of dollars in debt only to land a job that pays $13.50 an hour. And it took me almost 8 months to get this job! Quite frankly, I am living like a bumb. Why? Because I got almost $25,000 in student loans and a credit card with a $2,000 balance. If someone would have told me 5 years ago that I'd be making $13.50 an hour after graduation, I would have never gone to college. I mean never.

That is sad to hear, but many college grads are walking into the buzzsaw that is the recession. Keep your head up and be glad you are working. Having some work history is better than no work history at all.

I know exactly what you mean and I totally agree with everything you just said. I graduated in 2008 and i've only been able to get a job paying a little more than minimum wage in my state. I just quit that job about 2 weeks ago for the fact that I was becoming depressed about working my butt off in college and still getting paid the same as people that didn't have their degree. I graduated with my degree in education and it is so damn hard to get a job out in this economy today.

With vocational education there seems to be a lack of available training in to proportion to demand...and I've heard unflattering things about pro-profit schools which is why I haven't attend a Devry....or a Kaplan...

You people need to stop whining and be glad that some of you have formal education in "whatever' discipline you studied in. Imagine if you had NO way of being able to get a degree??? Envision yourself without access, as well as NEVER being able to have access, to higher learning?? There ARE people in those type of situations that would GLADLY put themselves in your shoes. A degree is solid proof that you have the perseverance to finish educating your self (A.S., B.S. whatever), AS WELL AS possessing the intellect to complete it. NEVER trash an education. Oh by the way employers are not obligated to hire you JUST because you have a sheepskin. Employers hire for a number of different reasons; some rational and some just plain stupid, but that is their prerogative. I can't believe people are complaining about actually possessing a formal education..is this the twilight zone or what!
For what its worth, I have three degree - two undergrad, one graduate. I have both pursued and worked in positions in and out of my degree subjects. No problem, it is how one packages oneself that is the key.

OH by the way - My degrees are worth EVERYTHING to me, I never landed a job without them. Someone here wrote that their degrees were worthless. What a load of crap. If it REALLY is worthless - who the hell fault is that? the potential employer??! Look in the mirror for that answer.

Alex, when did you get your degrees and what were they in?

When they have college night at the high schools this fall, they should make students aware that college only gets you into debt. Without a good paying job after you graduate a college degree is nothing but a piece of paper you can frame. Why would anyone today enter college for $10 and hour job? Think people!

Every college or vocational school is a business.

Why do you think books now cost $150- $350. for just one book.

Remember the saying" Anybody can be trained to do anyone's job, Snob" That's why people hire who they know
and not what you know
cause their friend and family can be trained too.

It's strange how a highly skilled technical worker can be trained much more cheaply in a developing country than in a developed country. Of course, that may change will all these brand name schools in UK and Britain wanting to establish satillite schools in India and other places. The general consensus amongst schools is to charge "the value" of what an education is, which is why tuitions uniformally keep going up as if all educations have the same "value". I don't think this value is strongly correlated to any market value of the skills or disipline being learned. Schools are charging as much as they can so they, according to a writer for the Economist, can hire better teachers and better provide facilities. There just aren't enough good teachers, facilities, and resources to provide a good education to every student.

Vocational school is suppose to be cheaper but actually isn't unless, one is able to get into a union based apprenticeship. Without overall prosperity*, most skilled tradsmen may be drifting in between jobs in the near future like migrant workers. Drifting is another name for flexability in the new globalized economy,btw.

*Prosperity, in my use of the term, refers country where more than 80 percent of the population is poor or wages are low.

Average in Medford, Massachusetts said: Alex, when did you get your degrees and what were they in?

I got my first degree in the late eighties and my last in the very early 00's. Took approx. 10 yrs or so. Two are in engineering disciplines, one is in a business/management area.

sad I know said: Every college or vocational school is a business .

Why do you think books now cost $150- $350. for just one book.

Remember the saying" Anybody can be trained to do anyone's job, Snob" That's why people hire who they know
and not what you know
cause their friend and family can be trained too.

Good grief people, get a grip - you will never get anywhere or be anything with so much negative attitude. Yes getting educated can be a crap shoot and is almost always difficult, but if you expect to get nowhere - thats exactly where your going. Complaining about the costs of books is absolutely ridiculous when you consider the big picture reality.

Wow, you recent grads must have parents that are loaded and willing to support you far beyond childhood. Turning down work in an economy like this is a luxury. I'm struggling to understand how relying on mom and dad is better, or more "face saving", than earning a paycheck, regardless of how low level the job/pay.

Somebody explain it to me, as I always did whatever I had to in order to pay the bills - I don't think I could possibly list all of the low-level temp jobs I did prior to securing my first "real" job. Sometimes a job is just a paycheck and your landlord doesn't give a rat's ass about your dreams. And your parents probably want you to get on with your life and move out of their house!

Disclosure: I have a baccalaureate degree, so I know how much work/money it takes to earn one. Don't bother repeating this fact in your attempt to explain.

ALPinWA in Lakewood, Washington said: Wow, you recent grads must have parents that are loaded and willing to support you far beyond childhood. Turning down work in an economy like this is a luxury. I'm struggling to understand how relying on mom and dad is better, or more "face saving", than earning a paycheck, regardless of how low level the job/pay.

Somebody explain it to me, as I always did whatever I had to in order to pay the bills - I don't think I could possibly list all of the low-level temp jobs I did prior to securing my first "real" job. Sometimes a job is just a paycheck and your landlord doesn't give a rat's ass about your dreams. And your parents probably want you to get on with your life and move out of their house!

Disclosure: I have a baccalaureate degree, so I know how much work/money it takes to earn one. Don't bother repeating this fact in your attempt to explain.

Nicely put.

Alexander, what exactly do you get out of telling demoralized, indebted people to get a grip and quit whining? You lack both tact and empathy. You have NO idea what the people here are dealing with. I was raised by mentally ill parents who dumped me into a state home at age 12. I grew up there. I had no money, no emotional support and no co-signers for student loans when everyone else my age was going to college. Student aid? Hah. I am a white suburbanite got lost in a sea of special interests, despite my A average. An A average means nothing if you have no family, no money and a connections to get you anywhere.

Over the years I earned my education by going into considerable debt and working frightening jobs, one of which resulted in the dislocation of 3 vertebrate in my neck. I persevered because all around me employers said "Get an education and you can go anywhere." That would only be true if our government were not in the process of converting this country into one of haves and have- nots. Ironically, my grades enable me to go to virtually any college in the country for an advanced degree at this point. However, since I have been stuck in temp jobs and other low-wage jobs I in no way have the work qualifications to do so. I am presently unemployed and do not qualify for unemployment as a previous temp worker.

So...I am mad as hell. A lot of people here are mad as hell. We have the right to be because we were lied to by our government, our education systems and our employers. We need to get this anger out of our systems so we vent on online forums since we may lack any other place to do so. Then - hopefully we will have the strength to go on and do something more useful than vent, something that will get us somewhere in life. You sir should put your aggression to work somewhere else - maybe the boxing ring?

NOYB in Chesterfield, Missouri said: I, like many of you who visit this forum am currently unemployed. I have a Bachelors degree that never opened any doors for me in regards to employment in my field of study and I have been under/unemployed since graduating from college over 10 years ago.

Both of my parents have degrees in education (both have their Master's) and I was one of the many who was taught/ grew up to belive in the premise that if you want to be succesful in life you need a college education. In this economy it seems like a degree is worthless unless a)you have experience in your field of study, and/or b) you graduated from college with a degree in a field of study that is in high demand-namely Health Care (a few years ago I would have included education, but now there are even cutbacks in hiring that area).

I realize your post is a little old, but have you considered employment with Veterans Affairs? They are very education focused, where they usually prefer to hire someone with a degree over someone eith experience. If you have a bachelors or a masters you can quickly move up to a GS 9 or 10.

Just something to think about and maybe look into.

Another option is to join the military. I have proudly served for nearly 20 years, obtained my Bachelors degree, and am currently working on my MBA. Almost all paid by from the Air Force. Yes, I have had to work hard for it, but people really need to realize there are always options available if they want an education bad enough.

Julia in New York, New York said: Alexander, what exactly do you get out of telling demoralized, indebted people to get a grip and quit whining? You lack both tact and empathy.....

Julia, nothing personal, but I do not care....nor does the world. I learned that the HARD way, however I will not sit here and weave the yarn of sorrow for everyone to cry and pout over. This is the cold hard face of reality...and I turned this into the perfect fuel to drive my ambition, and don't think I did not have set backs.

From your post I can understand why you would be bitter; however that bitterness will not help you....and whats with the "I am a white suburbanite got lost in a sea of special interests", are you joking???...just because your a "white surbanite" means you don't have to work your ass off like everyone else to get yours??? That's a serious intellectual deficiency, you need to vanquish that nonsense out of your mind as its nothing more than plain old B.S.....and don't get me started on the government and "haves and have nots" mentaliy...your rambling on about this tells me you are not sufficiently educated enough in that area to go mano y mano over it.

The American Dream of college is dead, it is another hustle that is no more or less different than the mortgage scams that ruined this country. Go ahead and graduate within the STEM field only to end up at Ruby Tuesdays.

The problem that Alex is overlooking is the rates for STEM workers/grads are down all across the board, whilst tuition increases for institutions have risen steadily with no end in site. He is on his way to retirement, so he really has nothing to worry about. When he got his degree, yes, you could write your own ticket, Post-Bush era is not the same at all.

$10 an hour for an advanced degree does not pay for s_h_i_t or any bills/loan repayment for that matter...after taxes and all the bs, you WILL have to be living with mama and dada, or be out in the street.

Julia - Being white is helpful in this economy, as an AA, I too could play the race card, but at the end of the day I know why I got picked over when it comes to interviews. It isn't fair, but that is what it is at times...I just move on to the next interview and leave those cross-burners alone...

The Military is another option too, and with most of the troops pulling out, now is a good time to join up and pay for a degree and get XP that way...

As a member of military, you'd get the secret clearance to beat most people in job placement decisions. The military is probably the best hustle, just a lot of risk involved...

I tend to agree with Major. I went "alltheway" in education and skills in the legal assistant industry. If I was fifteen years younger and beautiful, I would have it made.

mary in Tampa, Florida said: I tend to agree with Major. I went "alltheway" in education and skills in the legal assistant industry. If I was fifteen years younger and beautiful, I would have it made.

I'm afraid I see it all the time, eye-candy with no XP getting jobs because the HR manager is a dude and basically undresses them before they even open their mouths...

Or incompetent people feel threatened by educated individuals, so they take them out before the final rounds.

gmajor7th in 13th Colony, New Jersey said: The American Dream of college is dead, it is another hustle that is no more or less different than the mortgage scams that ruined this country. Go ahead and graduate within the STEM field only to end up at Ruby Tuesdays.

The problem that Alex is overlooking is the rates for STEM workers/grads are down all across the board, whilst tuition increases for institutions have risen steadily with no end in site. He is on his way to retirement, so he really has nothing to worry about. When he got his degree, yes, you could write your own ticket, Post-Bush era is not the same at all.

gmajor7th

You have GOT to be kidding me. Write my own ticket!?!? How insulated you must be from reality. There IS NO TICKET, trust me on that. I was fortunate enough to be educated at an ancient eight school (and it was NO trick getting in to and graduating from my alma mater mind you), yet when I finshed there was no "ticket" waiting for me to write my own success from. I don't know how you came to believe that but there is NO ticket you can write towards success, nor was there ever.

Oh, btw - my background is in engineering so I guess I'm one of your STEM people?

The dream is NOT dead; you only have to work harder to make it happen, but then who the hell promised you or anyone else a rose garden??. Get out into the jungle that is capitalism and MAKE YOUR FUTURE HAPPEN. Screw that Obama clown.

So if you have to work at Taco Bell...bide your time, get to the point where you can manage that Taco Bell or McDonalds or whatever (even if you have to lick boots). Try to manage multiple locations. DO WHATEVER it takes, then put MANAGER on your resume - who cares if its a fast food joint. This shows initiative and the drive to succeed - and that is someone I would hire.

This is how you make your future people.

I think it is a game of specialists now. Companies used to use what was taught in colleges but now many companies use so many different systems and processes you really can't step into a company cold from college. Many companies want you to spend your time getting schooled and/or certified on something that is only used in their company or maybe a few others. Or they want something like a full fledge certified accountant just to work in management with no major responsibilty or pay. In effect many companies have outsourced what should be their training programs to outside schools. This means YOU pay for training for which they used to provide years ago.

Also many companies want to make themselves seem special by requiring and using a specific system or process. Many employees and/or applicants do the samething by putting every little certification & training they had with one company on their resume.

Computers have made this game very easy to play with keyword searches. Getting a job now a days is a game of specialists along with great timing.

edit: *Prosperity, in my use of the term, refers country where more than 80 percent of the population is NOT poor or wages are too low.