Currently enrolled in MBA at University of Phoenix, considering withdrawing and going for associates

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lindslis in potter, Wisconsin

23 months ago

I graduated December 2011 with a BS in Dairy Science and minor in Ag business. After doing two internships I realized that I don't want to be a herdsman anymore due to the crazy long work hours and so much physical work for such little pay. I landed a job in a lab where I enjoy working with the people but hate the job, but I don't make enough money to pay my bills. Knowing that I needed to do something to change careers I decided to get my MBA. I'm afraid tho that I'll graduate and still not be able to find a job due to the little experience I have. Most of my experience is working on a farm with animals and I feel like most employers don't see that as beneficial. I really don't know what direction I want to go in, I'm interested in accounting, computers, and human resources. I'm just wondering if it would be beneficial to withdraw from my MBA and go for an associates in computer science and try from there first. Also I'm a little concerned about getting my MBA from University of Phoenix, from my research online, it doesn't seem to have the greatest reputation as others, but the school really works for my schedule.

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Bluetea in Texas

23 months ago

lindslis in potter, Wisconsin said: I graduated December 2011 with a BS in Dairy Science and minor in Ag business. After doing two internships I realized that I don't want to be a herdsman anymore due to the crazy long work hours and so much physical work for such little pay. I landed a job in a lab where I enjoy working with the people but hate the job, but I don't make enough money to pay my bills. Knowing that I needed to do something to change careers I decided to get my MBA. I'm afraid tho that I'll graduate and still not be able to find a job due to the little experience I have. Most of my experience is working on a farm with animals and I feel like most employers don't see that as beneficial. I really don't know what direction I want to go in, I'm interested in accounting, computers, and human resources. I'm just wondering if it would be beneficial to withdraw from my MBA and go for an associates in computer science and try from there first. Also I'm a little concerned about getting my MBA from University of Phoenix, from my research online, it doesn't seem to have the greatest reputation as others, but the school really works for my schedule.

An MBA from Phoenix is worthless. Equally worthless is an associates degree in Computer Science unless you have experience.

Look for something in demand, requires a license, little experience and is difficult to off-shore.

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lindslis in potter, Wisconsin

23 months ago

I've always been good with computers and have some job related experience. I guess I was hoping to just be able to get an associates instead of spending another four years in school. What about getting masters in computer science? Would that look strange to jump from dairy science to computer science with not a lot of work experience?

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Bluetea in Texas

23 months ago

lindslis in potter, Wisconsin said: I've always been good with computers and have some job related experience. I guess I was hoping to just be able to get an associates instead of spending another four years in school. What about getting masters in computer science? Would that look strange to jump from dairy science to computer science with not a lot of work experience?

Personally, I can't recommend Computer Science or IT. This field has a lot of problems. Its difficult to get into and its heavily off-shored. IMHO.

Another Associates is fine as long as its in demand. The problem is that everybody wants experience today, not just the degree. You are going to have to do internships to get that.

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AsktheCareerLady in San Jose, California

23 months ago

Guide

Sorry to disagree, but Computer Science is one of the most in-demand fields of hiring for 2013 (and many previous years) and companies are bringing IN people from out of the country to fill roles because we have such a shortage of talent. (IT is non-engineering and has less demand but still decent outlook)

And yes, an AS is helpful as long as you develop strong experience while going to school through internships and projects to build up a portfolio of projects (but it's like this for ANY field). For software development you can even take certificates if you choose a very in-demand language set using web and mobile technologies, such as Python, Django, JavaScript, etc. Even web development skills without the engineering such as CSS and HTML5 are in demand.

It just depends on what type of role you will be targeting. Instead of thinking only about what is in demand or easy to obtain, try exploring more on what you would be passionate about. Any career change is going to be difficult, so it's better to focus on making a change that you can live with for awhile. [Advertisement and URL removed by Indeed Moderator]

And yes, drop out of Phoenix ASAP. No education is worth spending money on if you won't get an ROI by knowing that it supports your future goals. Defining the goal is step 1 - getting there comes after you set the goal.

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Unix Brat in Asheville, North Carolina

23 months ago

AsktheCareerLady in San Jose, California said: Sorry to disagree, but Computer Science is one of the most in-demand fields of hiring for 2013 (and many previous years) and companies are bringing IN people from out of the country to fill roles because we have such a shortage of talent.

You really believe that line of bull?

Companies are bringing in people from out of the country because they can get away with paying slave wages.

I used to make a decent living in IT. No longer the case. My jobs have been offshored and outsourced a few too many times. I am not alone here. I know IT folks way more talented and passionate about the field that can't get even a so-so IT job to support themselves let alone a family.

A close relative of mine works for a large, well-known corp. He does A LOT of hiring for IT projects--even he and his colleagues will disagree with you. They all openly acknowledge that hiring foreigners is strictly a money thing.

To conclude, you have discredited yourself. Also, take a moment to review the forum rules.

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Unix Brat in Asheville, North Carolina

23 months ago

lindslis in potter, Wisconsin said: I've always been good with computers .....What about getting masters in computer science? Would that look strange to jump from dairy science to computer science with not a lot of work experience?

Honestly, people who proclaim themselves to be "good with computers" are a dime a dozen. That meant something 30 years ago but really is not all that special nowadays. Certainly not a reason to go into a field that is unstable for American-born workers.

Re your question, yes the jump will look a little strange. If that jump was backed by determination and focus it may not be a big deal. However, you are interested in so many things--accounting, computers, human resources, getting an MBA. And you stated in the first post you didn't know what direction to go in. Your indecision and lack of focus might reveal itself during an interview. That, my friend, would be a bigger issue to a potential employer, rather than the career jump itself.

Like Bluetea suggested, pick a vocation that can't get offshored.

Good luck.

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Joe Gagill in Monticello, New York

23 months ago

Unix Brat in Asheville, North Carolina said: You really believe that line of bull?

Companies are bringing in people from out of the country because they can get away with paying slave wages.

I used to make a decent living in IT. No longer the case. My jobs have been offshored and outsourced a few too many times. I am not alone here. I know IT folks way more talented and passionate about the field that can't get even a so-so IT job to support themselves let alone a family.

A close relative of mine works for a large, well-known corp. He does A LOT of hiring for IT projects--even he and his colleagues will disagree with you. They all openly acknowledge that hiring foreigners is strictly a money thing.

To conclude, you have discredited yourself. Also, take a moment to review the forum rules.

It's not my field so I wouldn't know, but I was waiting for someone on Indeed (you, Jeff, Blue) to disagree with her.

From what you guys have written in the past it sounds like a tough field to be in now.

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Bluetea in Texas

23 months ago

Unix Brat in Asheville, North Carolina said: You really believe that line of bull?

Companies are bringing in people from out of the country because they can get away with paying slave wages.

I used to make a decent living in IT. No longer the case. My jobs have been offshored and outsourced a few too many times. I am not alone here. I know IT folks way more talented and passionate about the field that can't get even a so-so IT job to support themselves let alone a family.

A close relative of mine works for a large, well-known corp. He does A LOT of hiring for IT projects--even he and his colleagues will disagree with you. They all openly acknowledge that hiring foreigners is strictly a money thing.

To conclude, you have discredited yourself. Also, take a moment to review the forum rules.

Same here. IT/Computer Science is one of the most off-shored professions you can choose. Leave IT to the H1Bs and go to plumbing school instead.

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AsktheCareerLady in San Jose, California

23 months ago

Guide

I guess it's a good thing I don't get bothered by being 'discredited' by anonymous forum negative nancies.

The reason I believe 'that line of bull' is because I'm in Silicon Valley - this (like NYC, Chicago, etc.) is an excellent market for development and engineering, and even some IT. As you'll notice, I spoke relative to CS/development and engineering over IT. Even though there is plenty of IT hiring still going on as well (in Unix too).

I've hired a handful of developers and worked with hundreds others for job placement just in the last year, and I can tell you they are doing quite well. They get snatched up on the job market here within weeks with the right skill set, and the six-figure salaries are nothing to scoff at. We bring in people from around the world because all we care about is skill set, not their location. Unfortunately the US education system is lax, and in other countries students are programming in middle school.

Before that I was career services in a vocational IT certification school and placed hundreds of entry to mid-level IT pros and career-changers. I had close to 100% placement rate which is extremely high in the vocational school industry. Students would get jobs while still in school with even just an A+ Certification. Many of them are now making $80k+ after just 2 years of career growth on the market and ongoing education. I don't think that's anything to scoff at for folks without formal college degrees in this market.

I agree that the technical field is still difficult, as are most fields these days. You MUST stay constantly up to date with new technologies or you'll no longer be desired. You often need to relocate or be in technology-heavy locations such as major cities and tech hubs. But above all, the most important aspect is not to choose a field based on market demand alone but your passion for it as well.

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Rosalynd in Nowhereland

23 months ago

You have to take things people on this forum say with a grain of salt, lindslis, because you get people like BlueTea who think they're experts on a field that they nothing about. Also I've browsed these forums off an off for a year or two, it's usually the same 10 disgruntled out of work people who post over and over again the same junk.

You're better off asking about the field on a forum specific forum about Computer Science or IT careers. Try Dice.com.

I will say, going to the University of Phoenix is a bad idea. Go to a state school instead, it's also cheaper that way.

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Rosalynd in Nowhereland

23 months ago

Excuse my writing errors, I rewrote a couple of sentences but failed to proof before I posted.

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Average in Medford, Massachusetts

23 months ago

Software engineering was one of the occupations that saw a net decline in job opening on Indeed last year You have an issue of perspective. If you are honestly are IN Silicon Valley, where employers are trying to woo world-class talent away from each other, you are seeing things from the top. The view from the top is rarely a bad view but everyone complains that it's lonely at the top. The top, is not the entire field. Aside from the Googles, and Microsofts of employers, it seems to me that I.T. workers are not treated like royalty. Someone once remarked that I.T. is a youth orientated field because there are rarely any employees in a non-managerial position over the age of 40 at most I.T. departments. Since you only deal with the cream of the crop, in terms of employees and employers, I don't think you can verify that remark one way or the other.

"Students would get jobs while still in school with even just an A+ Certification. Many of them are now making $80k+ after just 2 years of career growth on the market and ongoing education. " Were these "students" seasoned I.T. pros and working professionals who already had experience, or who were self-taught? Were you doing all these placements during the dot com bubble where almost anyone could get an "i.t." job.

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Unix Brat in Asheville, North Carolina

23 months ago

Rosalynd in Nowhereland said:

You're better off asking about the field on a forum specific forum about Computer Science or IT careers. Try Dice.com.

Yes, on Dice there are several discussions about the H1B problem, massive offshoring of technology jobs, and how these dynamics are leading to suppressed wages for Americans.

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Jeff in Denver, Colorado

23 months ago

lindslis in potter, Wisconsin said: I've always been good with computers and have some job related experience. I guess I was hoping to just be able to get an associates instead of spending another four years in school. What about getting masters in computer science? Would that look strange to jump from dairy science to computer science with not a lot of work experience?

You shouldn't have to go to school for 4 years to get a 2nd Bachelor's degree. For the 2nd Bachelor's degree, you should only need to take the classes required for the major. How many years that takes depends on the prerequisites for the classes. I got into an M.S. program in CS from a B.A. in Earth Science. They made me take 3 undergraduate classes (discrete math, operating systems, and algorithms) to get started, though since I was coming from a hard science background I had taken all the math (other than discrete math) and science classes that an undergrad in CS would have been required to take.

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Jeff in Denver, Colorado

23 months ago

Average in Medford, Massachusetts said: The top, is not the entire field. Aside from the Googles, and Microsofts of employers, it seems to me that I.T. workers are not treated like royalty. Someone once remarked that I.T. is a youth orientated field because there are rarely any employees in a non-managerial position over the age of 40 at most I.T. departments.

I interviewed recently for a software engineering position at a major defense contractor. The 2 managers who interviewed me, one of whom has 65 people under her, were both in their early 30's.

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Jeff in Denver, Colorado

23 months ago

Bluetea in Texas said: Same here. IT/ Computer Science is one of the most off-shored professions you can choose. Leave IT to the H1Bs and go to plumbing school instead.

I had some plumbing work done this week. The plumber drives a Lexus.

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Unemployed Paralegal in Denver, Colorado

23 months ago

I don't know what car my plumber drives, but his family has been in the plumbing business for sixty-four years and he has made a TON of money!

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Jeff in Denver, Colorado

23 months ago

AsktheCareerLady in San Jose, California said: Sorry to disagree, but Computer Science is one of the most in-demand fields of hiring for 2013 (and many previous years) and companies are bringing IN people from out of the country to fill roles because we have such a shortage of talent. (IT is non- engineering and has less demand but still decent outlook)

There is NOT a shortage of IT TALENT in America. Companies bring in foreign workers because they can get someone who has been using the latest technologies at a foreign company, and would prefer to do this rather than let an American learn by working at their company. The only way to get WORK experience in a technology is to have a job using that technology, but American companies would rather rent workers from other countries than develop their own skilled employees. Something like half the STEM graduates in the USA are not working in STEM fields because they can't find jobs.

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Jeff in Denver, Colorado

23 months ago

AsktheCareerLady in San Jose, California said: And yes, an AS is helpful as long as you develop strong experience while going to school through internships and projects to build up a portfolio of projects (but it's like this for ANY field). For software development you can even take certificates if you choose a very in-demand language set using web and mobile technologies, such as Python, Django, JavaScript, etc. Even web development skills without the engineering such as CSS and HTML5 are in demand.

They are only in demand for workers with EXPERIENCE in specific skills. Companies are competing for the same group of people who have managed to find jobs at which they were able to acquire experience in these technologies. Companies are not interested in people who have merely taken a class in a skill. I've taken basically every computer science and computer information systems class that the local community college offers in the past 2 years and I essentially have an M.S. in CS (I never took the comprehensive final) and I have never not gotten an 'A' in a computer science or computer information systems class and no one cares. The only job offer that I've gotten uses obsolete technologies (C and FORTRAN) that few programmers under 40 know. There are simply so many IT workers available that companies can limit their hires to people who have done similar jobs in the past.

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Calfornian in Hayward, California

23 months ago

I'll just drop in with my usual mantra, "IT is great in the right place at the right time, and age, with the right skill set". In other words, if you are a developer building phone apps in the Bay Area you can write your ticket. Put the same guy in Fresno and he's selling radio ads or working for the Geek Squad.

And, please, rationalizing the wonders of the industry because it's bringing in foreign workers. What goes on in this regard is criminal, literally.

And, yeah, I'd give Phoenix a second, third and fourth thought before I piled a bunch of money there.

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Jake in Sycamore, Illinois

23 months ago

BLS reports that entry level CS and IT positions (4-year degree and below) will grow at about an average rate, through 2020. This is not actually a very lucrative field. Computer support specialists, which is one of the most common jobs in IT, earn on average about $45k and are expected to grow roughly the same as baseline employment nationally.

The reasons why these jobs are being imported are political, not due to any labor shortage. If that were true, wages in this industry would be soaring in response to limited supply of labor. This is not happening.

Are there niches that will stand out? Sure. That goes for practically any field.

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Jeff in Denver, Colorado

23 months ago

Jake in Sycamore, Illinois said: BLS reports that entry level CS and IT positions (4-year degree and below) will grow at about an average rate, through 2020. This is not actually a very lucrative field. Computer support specialists, which is one of the most common jobs in IT, earn on average about $45k and are expected to grow roughly the same as baseline employment nationally.

The reasons why these jobs are being imported are political, not due to any labor shortage. If that were true, wages in this industry would be soaring in response to limited supply of labor. This is not happening.

Are there niches that will stand out? Sure. That goes for practically any field.

I don't think that the reason for importing foreign IT workers is political, I think that it is because companies think that they are saving money by bringing in someone who's already used the skills rather than hiring locally and developing their own skilled employees. The problem is that, besides increasing unemployment in the USA, many of the H1B visa holders will eventually return to their home countries and when they do the will put the knowledge that they acquired in the USA to work for a company that is competing against American companies.

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Calfornian in Hayward, California

23 months ago

Someone whose spent a bit time on the issue than most of us.

www.cringely.com/2012/10/23/what-americans-dont-know-about-h-1b-visas-could-hurt-us-all/

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Jake in Sycamore, Illinois

23 months ago

Jeff,

What you describe is a political situation, not an economic one. As I stated, if there really were a labor shortage of ordinary coders or computer support personnel, we would be witnessing significant wage increases in these fields. We aren't. While certain niche areas, like software development or network architects (in some regions), are seeing faster than average labor market growth, most of the field has largely plateaued or even declined since the recession ended. If you're a run of the mill programmer or support specialist (which is the vast majority of people in IT), your wages aren't going anywhere and aren't predicted to go anywhere for years to come, at least according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics. The lack of upside pressure on wages is indicative of a saturated domestic labor market. That implies that companies are importing workers for reasons other than economics.

So I think it's important to distinguish what the H1B visa is really affecting. It's a subsidy to corporations to reduce their labor costs. It's completely unrelated to any actual labor shortage. That makes this a political problem, not a strictly economic one. People must use the political process to pressure Congress to reduce and/or eliminate this subsidy.

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Jagger in Baden, Pennsylvania

23 months ago

Why not try to leverage the degree you already have, but do something a little different? Try looking at major food/beverage manufacturers. Nestle USA has a great program for new grads to get into operations management, supply chain, etc. Large food companies will value your degree, and give you an opportunity to gain experience.

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Jeff in Denver, Colorado

23 months ago

Jake in Sycamore, Illinois said: Jeff,

What you describe is a political situation, not an economic one. As I stated, if there really were a labor shortage of ordinary coders or computer support personnel, we would be witnessing significant wage increases in these fields. We aren't. While certain niche areas, like software development or network architects (in some regions), are seeing faster than average labor market growth, most of the field has largely plateaued or even declined since the recession ended. If you're a run of the mill programmer or support specialist (which is the vast majority of people in IT), your wages aren't going anywhere and aren't predicted to go anywhere for years to come, at least according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics. The lack of upside pressure on wages is indicative of a saturated domestic labor market. That implies that companies are importing workers for reasons other than economics.

So I think it's important to distinguish what the H1B visa is really affecting. It's a subsidy to corporations to reduce their labor costs. It's completely unrelated to any actual labor shortage. That makes this a political problem, not a strictly economic one. People must use the political process to pressure Congress to reduce and/or eliminate this subsidy.

It depends on what aspect you're talking about. The reason for using H1B workers is economic. The reason why companies are allowed to use H1B workers is political. Unfortunately, no matter from which angle you are looking at it, the long term effect of using H1B workers is likely to be negative. For short term cost savings, American companies are allowing future employees of foreign competitors to become familiar with working and doing business in America.

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Jake in Sycamore, Illinois

23 months ago

Jeff in Denver, Colorado said: It depends on what aspect you're talking about. The reason for using H1B workers is economic. The reason why companies are allowed to use H1B workers is political. Unfortunately, no matter from which angle you are looking at it, the long term effect of using H1B workers is likely to be negative. For short term cost savings, American companies are allowing future employees of foreign competitors to become familiar with working and doing business in America.

I just feel like it's too easy to get sucked into some anti-immigration rabbit hole when it comes to this issue, which is why I think it's important we look at the problem for what it really is - large corporations purchasing cheaper labor by elected officials by way of the worker visa program. Take away the preferential treatment, by way of tax relief or subsidy, and the issue itself largely melts away because these companies aren't looking at an actual domestic labor shortage. It's not Indian programmers' faults that our government is willing subsidize (in some fashion) Boeing or Microsoft to import them into the country for lower wages. And it's important to note that it isn't only a federal government issue - state governments are in the midst of a race to the bottom doing this to attract businesses to relocate. This is what I mean by calling it a political problem. Raw economics aren't why these companies are bringing these employees in, even though they're doing so to reduce their labor costs further. Without political support, the economics wouldn't be favorable.

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Bluetea in Texas

23 months ago

Jake in Sycamore, Illinois said: And it's important to note that it isn't only a federal government issue - state governments are in the midst of a race to the bottom doing this to attract businesses to relocate.

I left California, twelve years ago, when I saw one company after another being wooed to Nevada, Texas, Indiana and so on.

Now Californias' economy is in the toilet.

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Jake in Sycamore, Illinois

23 months ago

Bluetea in Texas said: I left California, twelve years ago, when I saw one company after another being wooed to Nevada, Texas, Indiana and so on.

Now Californias' economy is in the toilet.

So true. Last year or so, Caterpillar went around the country wooing North Carolina, Indiana, Kentucky, etc., while complaining about Illinois finances. A lot of people really believed that they might be in the process of pulling out of Peoria. Personally, I think that would be impossible for them to do, especially when you consider how many plants they have in Illinois. It was all just a ruse to get more preferential tax treatment from Illinois lawmakers and they used political pressure of high profile interstate flirting to get it. Some day, someone will succeed in drawing them out. It's only a matter of time. Illinois is in such horrible financial shape that a critical mass in industry is rapidly approaching here.

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Calfornian in Hayward, California

23 months ago

Bluetea in Texas said: I left California, twelve years ago, when I saw one company after another being wooed to Nevada, Texas, Indiana and so on.

Now Californias' economy is in the toilet.

This is easier to say from far away. The reality is more nuanced. Our economy went in the toilet, mainly, because of real estate. You had people living in places like Stockton and commuting to San Francisco. As everything began to implode, those $400K houses turned into $200K houses, there was no job to commute to and it all just blew up. Our biggest problem is that our real estate inflated like crazy, then stopped. I, honestly, think the mass exodus is overstated.

But I gotta say a state run entirely by the Democratic party, especially Californians, is equally as scary as a state run by Southern Republicans. We have more than enough regulations, taxes and untouchable public sector unions to last me 3 lifetimes. We badly need a better alternative but you can't get the Republicans to stop talking about god, gays, abortion and throwing the Mexicans out long enough to win an election. They all have to run in the primary like they are in Louisiana and they get murdered in the general because of it.

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Calfornian in Hayward, California

23 months ago

Back on topic, the IT department, actually the entirety of the corporate offices, but this is very prevalent in IT, were vehemently anti-union. We all want to go it alone until the day when we need representation and it isn't there. Note, it doesn't have to be a union, realtors do just fine when it comes to getting representation.

The H1-B cap isn't going up because of need, or really even because of greed, it goes up because there isn't anyone standing up and defending the IT worker. And that's just how we all want it.

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Bluetea in Texas

23 months ago

Calfornian in Hayward, California said: This is easier to say from far away. The reality is more nuanced. Our economy went in the toilet, mainly, because of real estate. You had people living in places like Stockton and commuting to San Francisco. As everything began to implode, those $400K houses turned into $200K houses, there was no job to commute to and it all just blew up. Our biggest problem is that our real estate inflated like crazy, then stopped. I, honestly, think the mass exodus is overstated.

But I gotta say a state run entirely by the Democratic party, especially Californians, is equally as scary as a state run by Southern Republicans. We have more than enough regulations, taxes and untouchable public sector unions to last me 3 lifetimes. We badly need a better alternative but you can't get the Republicans to stop talking about god, gays, abortion and throwing the Mexicans out long enough to win an election. They all have to run in the primary like they are in Louisiana and they get murdered in the general because of it.

I think the Exodus is real. There are a lot of California license plates here and the locals hate 'em.

By the way, we have almost as many data centers here as we have cows. Many of them use to be in California.

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Calfornian in Hayward, California

23 months ago

Bluetea in Texas said: I think the Exodus is real. There are a lot of California license plates here and the locals hate 'em.

By the way, we have almost as many data centers here as we have cows. Many of them use to be in California.

I think it's more hype than substance but I wouldn't blame anyone for leaving this state. What I pay in rent, and I just got notice that it's going up, would pay for a nice house, with a good sized front yard, in most places in this country.

I think it's time to move. I live in a nice place but it's not that nice, not by a long way.

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