Do you really need that degree?

Employers require a 4 year degree for just a simple receptionist job. Are you really going to use the Algebra, Chemistry or physics that you spent so much on the textbooks for? Well here is a list of very successfull High School Dropouts. It just shows that you don't need a degree to be a millionaire.
George Carlin... Comedian.
Jim Carrey... Comedian and actor.
Tom Cruise... Actor
George Eastman... Founder of the Kodak company.
Albert Einstein... Mathematician.
Michael J. Fox... Actor.
George Gershwin... Composer
Wright brothers... Inventors of the airplane.
Peter Jennings... News anchor and reporter.
Billy Joel... Singer.
Keanu Reeves... Actor.
Thomas Sowell... Economist, author and political commentator.
Quentin Tarantino... Movie director.
Dave Thomas... Founder of Wendy's restaurant chain.
Uma Thurman... Actress.
Randy Travis... Country music singer.
John Travolta... Actor, airline pilot.
Ansel Adams... Photographer, author.
Bryan Adams... Songwriter, singer.
Jack Albertson... Oscar-winning actor.

Yeah, but look at your list. Most of those people are actors or actresses. And as far as the entertainment industry goes, no, you don't need a degree but youre destined to be very poor or very wealthy in that industry. Those people are exceptions to the rule. Einstein? If you have an IQ of 170 you ought to be teaching college courses, not attending them. Basically, your list is composed of very lucky actors and people who are entrepreneurs. Both of those fields are very difficult to be successful in. Not trying to dash your hopes, but realistically speaking, not everyone can get abundantly rich in those ways.

It requires a lot of luck and hard work for that to happen. Also, years ago it was easier to make in less education. These days employers want a lot more.

There is a lot of crap they make students take that they will never use. I think a lot of it has to do with keeping a teacher employed and because someone loves to teach it.

I've been thinking the same thing. Why would anyone go to college for 4 years, spend all of the money on books and courses to turn around to try to get a $10 an hour job. I've seen so many admin assistant jobs where you need a degree. I don't have one, but I have the experience. Look at Bill Gates and Steve Jobs. They both dropped out of college and are doing very well for themselves. You do not need a degree to do a job you can train a monkey to do (and this is no disrespect to people in admin, hell I am in admin. I just mean there are jobs that actually require the training to get a degree and answering a phone isn't one of them)

Back when I was in high school you could take a lot of those office type classes. There's plenty of secretaries out there with no degree. It all depends on the company doing the hiring.

I bet that those secretaries with no degrees were very good at their jobs too! There are many things that you learn on the job and not in school. For the people who are near retirement they learned Word, Excel, Powerpoint etc on the job and NOT in school. Back when I was in school we had typing on an electric typewriter, now they call it keyboarding, using a computer. The kids in school today will have to learn new skills to do the same job when they near retirement as well. They will not learn that in school, and there is always new technology that will be in place that is not in place today, so degree or not, you have to keep up with the future. Most people will pick up on it quickly with training, especially since you can learn so much online today.

There are many business leaders and others in various fields who do not have a college degree. Some of the ones that everyone knows are:

Wolfgang Puck
Walt Disney
Henry Ford
Bill Gates
Thomas Edison
Oprah Winfrey
Dick Cheney
Charles Schultz
J.K Rowling
Louisa May Alcott
Elvis Presley
Vincetn Van Gogh
Baba Ruth

I think it is done to get rid of people who can't do basic stuff, thus simplifying the hiring process. If you don't put the college degree requirement on the job description, you will end up spending hours dealing with people who sometimes can hardly write. However, if a person does have a college degree it already guarantees that he/she can follow instructions. Most of the time it is possible to get this job without the degree, you just need to get to the interview...

I worked with a lady once who had a Bachelors degree and claimed to be #10 in her graduation class. She only knew the basics of the software programs. At that time we had Lotus 123 & Word Perfect, I had to teach her and she was sent to 1 day classes as well. Then we later had Word & Excel and again I had to teach her. I learned by going through a book that my manager let me buy and taught myself in my down time. I learned everything ON THE JOB.

Unless you are in a specialized field, a four year degree is a waste of time and money. College for years has been a money making cartel and nothing else. If you have some brains and desire, you can learn anything. And yes, I have a four year degree.

I have read recently that parents should think about their retirement first and not their childrens college education. They should apply for scholarships or start out in a community college. Many of the baby boomers will not have enough for retirement, I believe it will only get worse for the future generations such as X and Y.

Depressed in Stamford in Stamford, Connecticut said: Employers require a 4 year degree for just a simple receptionist job. Are you really going to use the Algebra, Chemistry or physics that you spent so much on the textbooks for? Well here is a list of very successfull High School Dropouts. It just shows that you don't need a degree to be a millionaire.
George Carlin... Comedian.
Jim Carrey... Comedian and actor.
Tom Cruise... Actor
George Eastman... Founder of the Kodak company.
Albert Einstein... Mathematician.
Michael J. Fox... Actor.
George Gershwin... Composer
Wright brothers... Inventors of the airplane.
Peter Jennings... News anchor and reporter.
Billy Joel... Singer.
Keanu Reeves... Actor.
Thomas Sowell... Economist, author and political commentator.
Quentin Tarantino... Movie director.
Dave Thomas... Founder of Wendy's restaurant chain.
Uma Thurman... Actress.
Randy Travis... Country music singer.
John Travolta... Actor, airline pilot.
Ansel Adams... Photographer, author.
Bryan Adams... Songwriter, singer.
Jack Albertson... Oscar-winning actor.

Depressed: Don't forget Cher. She ran away from home when she was 16 and she got hooked up with Sonny Bono. Even the Gabor sisters (Eva, Zsa Zsa, and Magda) never went to college.

Secondly, Diana Ross, Vanna White, Sonny Bono, Neil Simon, and Elvis were all high school graduates. A friend of mine told me that the late writer James Baldwin never went to college.

In my opinion, you only need to go to college if you're going to be a doctor, a lawyer, a teacher, an accountant, and engineer, or a scientist. But I guess nowadays, they want a college degree for everything.

Gia in Chicago, Illinois said: There are many business leaders and others in various fields who do not have a college degree. Some of the ones that everyone knows are:

Wolfgang Puck
Walt Disney
Henry Ford
Bill Gates
Thomas Edison
Oprah Winfrey
Dick Cheney
Charles Schultz
J.K Rowling
Louisa May Alcott
Elvis Presley
Vincetn Van Gogh
Baba Ruth

Gia: Oprah went to college.

Come to think of it, I never even went to college. I just have the equivalent of a high school education and vocational and business school training.

In fact, I went to special education school after fourth grade. But thirty years ago, when I was still in my 20's, I went back to school and furthered my education. I studied for my GED and I took some business courses. I was able to get out of dietary work and into the business world; as well as be a writer. I'm a success without college.

I am convinced that employers have ridiculous requirements such as a four year degree for a secretary position simply as a weeding process. In this economy over the past few years, employers get literally hundreds of resumes for every position.

Sorry if this is a repost; Indeed is acting weird.

I just wanted to make one clarification and a comment.

Even though Einstein left one school, he did complete a four-year course culminating in a mathematics and physics teaching diploma from a school in Zurich. I'm not sure of the equivalency to current American diplomas/degrees, but either way he earned some sort of academic credential.

Secondly, the argument that you make is that "some people were extremely smart, beautiful/handsome, funny, talented, lucky, or a combination of the above traits, and they didn't need a degree, so neither do you." Do you see how flawed this is? Your conclusion is not flawed, it just doesn't follow from your evidence. Most people have none of these traits in high enough quantity to be quite as successful as the listed celebrities without some sort of training beyond high school. This does not mean that everyone needs a degree, but a trade school diploma, apprenticeship, or short-term certificate/associate's degree would go a long way for many people.

If you want to show people that a degree is unnecessary for success, you're best off giving them stories of local plumbers who were able to expand their businesses beyond a one-man operation or the guy down the street who was pretty good with computers, read some books at the library, and was able to start a repair service that brings enough business to support his family. Pointing out Bill Gates and telling people they can be millionaires without a college degree is sending them in the wrong direction, much better to have them seek out stories of ordinary folks who found their niche and made a decent life for themselves. My parents, who have run a small retail florist well enough for 30 years that we kids never had to worry about food, housing, or college tuition , are another good example.

Find what you are good at people, and make it work for you, whether you end up with a BA/BS or not.

When reading some of the requirements that employers want it is everything in return for the least they can get away with. I remember seeing the term "Will Train" and "Sign on Bonus" in many postings in the past, that has all changed to "Self Starter" and "no benefits". When they don't even want to train you to the way they want their employees to follow procedure and perform that is sad. In every new job you have to learn how management wants you to follow procedures, some are very particular. That does not totally happen the minute you set foot in the door. A handbook is something that should be distributed, but in smaller companies they don't always have one.

Nanlisa in Upper Darby, Pennsylvania said: Depressed: Don't forget Cher. She ran away from home when she was 16 and she got hooked up with Sonny Bono. Even the Gabor sisters (Eva, Zsa Zsa, and Magda) never went to college.

Secondly, Diana Ross, Vanna White, Sonny Bono, Neil Simon, and Elvis were all high school graduates. A friend of mine told me that the late writer James Baldwin never went to college.

In my opinion, you only need to go to college if you're going to be a doctor, a lawyer, a teacher, an accountant, and engineer, or a scientist. But I guess nowadays, they want a college degree for everything.

I bet there are many more that should be on that list, (if any want to share others feel free) that is only a partial listing. They are a very successful without an Associates or Bachelors degree, and today too many employers require that applicants have them. If they only looked at the ability and not even know how much education a person had who would know. When someone first showed me the list, I didn't realize that so many people do not have a 4 year degree. Even in my past jobs except for Managers not too many had the degree, and performed the job very well.

Depressed in Stamford in Stamford, Connecticut said: I bet there are many more that should be on that list, (if any want to share others feel free) that is only a partial listing. They are a very successful without an Associates or Bachelors degree, and today too many employers require that applicants have them. If they only looked at the ability and not even know how much education a person had who would know. When someone first showed me the list, I didn't realize that so many people do not have a 4 year degree. Even in my past jobs except for Managers not too many had the degree, and performed the job very well.

A college degree is the minimum requirement for most professional jobs these days. Many now require advanced education such as a Masters or CPA for accounting type jobs. I have a Masters degree & Bachelors not from top 20 but still decent schools and I am having trouble finding work because I don't have a CPA or public accounting background

Depressed in Stamford in Stamford, Connecticut said: I remember seeing the term "Will Train" and "Sign on Bonus" in many postings in the past, that has all changed to "Self Starter" and "no benefits". When they don't even want to train you to the way they want their employees to follow procedure and perform that is sad.

Will train, now that is a joke since most of them expect you to know their methods of doing everything the minute you walk through the door.

One of the companies I worked for should have been the ones going out and getting the degree because they didn't know what the hell they were doing and their way of doing things was outdated. They were very stubborn and didn't want to change. They were proud of the fact that they didn't go to college and it showed in the way they did things. This is what happens when the kids take of dad's business and runs it to the ground.

Nanlisa in Upper Darby, Pennsylvania said: Gia: Oprah went to college.

Yes you are right. This list was suppose to reflect those who do not have a college degree. I have read 2 different things about Oprah. One is that she was 1 credit short of a degree and the other that she did graduate from college.

designer bee in Waukesha, Wisconsin said: Will train, now that is a joke since most of them expect you to know their methods of doing everything the minute you walk through the door.

One of the companies I worked for should have been the ones going out and getting the degree because they didn't know what the hell they were doing and their way of doing things was outdated. They were very stubborn and didn't want to change. They were proud of the fact that they didn't go to college and it showed in the way they did things. This is what happens when the kids take of dad's business and runs it to the ground.

Since they are the boss they think that they are always right and if you don't like their methods you know where the door is.

Depressed in Stamford in Stamford, Connecticut said: When reading some of the requirements that employers want it is everything in return for the least they can get away with. I remember seeing the term "Will Train" and "Sign on Bonus" in many postings in the past, that has all changed to "Self Starter" and "no benefits". When they don't even want to train you to the way they want their employees to follow procedure and perform that is sad. In every new job you have to learn how management wants you to follow procedures, some are very particular. That does not totally happen the minute you set foot in the door. A handbook is something that should be distributed, but in smaller companies they don't always have one.

Employers today don't want human beings: they want machines. How are you going to learn if they don't have the time to train you?

You've heard of the movie "The Stepford Wives"? Well employers today want Stepford employees. Robots. Machines. Not human beings.

Gary Co in Northern, New Jersey said: Unless you are in a specialized field, a four year degree is a waste of time and money. College for years has been a money making cartel and nothing else. If you have some brains and desire, you can learn anything. And yes, I have a four year degree.

I agree it is a waste of money. The positions I landed after graduation I did not need a college degree to perform. Not to mention the salaries companies are offering today SUCK!

Degrees may indeed be overrated but that list of people isn't really that inspiring since most of those people are actors, actresses, entertainers, and inventors. Most of those are careers that don't really even NEED higher education, it's mostly just luck and getting hooked up with the right people to be successful in those jobs, lol =[

I may have worked in the call centers on and off since 1983, but lately, I see a lot of these call center jobs where they want people with college degrees; depending upon the industry. I'm assuming that if customers call up these companies for product information, to buy anything, or for whatever reason, they probably want somebody who's experienced in and has knowledge of that industry.

I may not be cut out for high finance or high tech, but I've worked in other industries where you really don't need a college degree. For example, I had a temporary telephone survey position with a company that does banking customer retention, but I've never worked in the banking industry before. I also had a customer service job where I had to answer inbound resident utility shut-off calls for the Pennsylvania Public Utility Commission, and I never worked in the utilities industry before.

I've even seen some jobs that say "College degree preferred", but that doesn't mean that it's required. If I feel qualified for that job, I'm going to apply for it; no matter what. And I will be very straight forward, up front, and honest with the employer; I'd let him or her know that I never went to college. But my skills and experience most definitely qualify me for the job.

I don't know how our future generations will be able to go to college. Parents working at low paying jobs and college, heathcare & gas prices keep climbing. Some employers stress that a Bachelors degree is required. If you want the education why doesn't the pay go along with it? Do you need a Bachelors degree to work at McDonalds?

Gambler on life in Las Vegas, Nevada said: If you want the education why doesn't the pay go along with it? Do you need a Bachelors degree to work at McDonalds?

lol, I know what you mean but degree + experience is the magic combo for DECENT compensation. What confuses me is where these sp called "entry level" jobs expect me to get 3 years experience in a lab when I just finished school? =/ I mean, a few of my slightly older LUCKY friends [ages 28+] are having success in the science world with our biology degrees, but still I'm surprised at how many friends my age graduated last year with high hopes but ended up feeling lucky to get jobs at Wal-Mart paying $9/hr.

I never understood entry level and needing experience. Isn't entry level supposed to mean no experience? I have even seen internships asking for experience.

Gambler on life in Las Vegas, Nevada said: I don't know how our future generations will be able to go to college. Parents working at low paying jobs and college, heathcare & gas prices keep climbing. Some employers stress that a Bachelors degree is required. If you want the education why doesn't the pay go along with it? Do you need a Bachelors degree to work at McDonalds?

The same way they are able to goto college AND own a late model car AND live off campus in a rental home or condo apartment AND have full health insurance ---- thru mom and dad and/or loans.

But a college degree is the minimum requirement. In Massachusetts close to 62% have a 4 year degree and 16% have an advanced degree. Employers want you to have an advanced degree in addition to the college degree and/or a relevant license such as CPA for an accounting position.

The CPA test is not an easy on! The test is only offered 2x a year and I have known people who had to take it more than once to pass. To work in a CPA firm and prepare taxes you have to have one or be working on it if you are a new grad. Some firms will help you on the condition you pass and remain with them.

Dammit, I agree. I can't believe it! I was a receptionist yeeaars ago when all you needed was SKILL. I'm about to graduate and I can't find a better job to save my life. Who wants to spend 80k plus to make 10-14.00 an hour. I know we're in a recession but that's madness. Just to push a mail cart around you need a degree! Or be bi-lingual--but even that's crap. My Panamanian /Belizean cousin speaks four languages (Spanish incl) and he still can't find a job. With a degree. What's going on here?!?!?

designer bee in Waukesha, Wisconsin said: Back when I was in high school you could take a lot of those office type classes. There's plenty of secretaries out there with no degree. It all depends on the company doing the hiring.

But now, Designer Bee, secretarial schools have gone the way of the dinosaur.

Depressed in Stamford in Stamford, Connecticut said: Employers require a 4 year degree for just a simple receptionist job. Are you really going to use the Algebra, Chemistry or physics that you spent so much on the textbooks for? Well here is a list of very successfull High School Dropouts. It just shows that you don't need a degree to be a millionaire.
George Carlin... Comedian.
Jim Carrey... Comedian and actor.
Tom Cruise... Actor
George Eastman... Founder of the Kodak company.
Albert Einstein... Mathematician.
Michael J. Fox... Actor.
George Gershwin... Composer
Wright brothers... Inventors of the airplane.
Peter Jennings... News anchor and reporter.
Billy Joel... Singer.
Keanu Reeves... Actor.
Thomas Sowell... Economist, author and political commentator.
Quentin Tarantino... Movie director.
Dave Thomas... Founder of Wendy's restaurant chain.
Uma Thurman... Actress.
Randy Travis... Country music singer.
John Travolta... Actor, airline pilot.
Ansel Adams... Photographer, author.
Bryan Adams... Songwriter, singer.
Jack Albertson... Oscar-winning actor.

Dont forget Bill Gates....he dropped out of college.

Well, this all just goes to show you that in this economy, employers can get away with these ridiculous requirements because so many people are out of work and desperate for work.

College degrees, salary requirements, super fast typing speeds, super long online assessments; All tools used by employers to weed out people. And what's funny is that a lot of the jobs with all of these requirements are jobs that likely a 12 year old could do.

I mean really, why do I need a college degree and a 80 wpm typing speed just to talk to customers on the phone all day long (in a non-technical environment), something I've done for 6+ years without those requirements? And on top of that you only want to pay me 11 dollars and hour? Right.....SMH

I see a lot of comments from Negative Nancy's who seem to be bitter about not having college degrees. Learning is NEVER a bad thing and do you think I wanted to spend the money to get a degree? Hell no. But the job market and society dictated that it was a must have to be reasonably succesful. Certainly you can be uber successful without a college education but that is certainly the exception rather than the rule. I took courses thinking that my bachelors degree would make me extremely hire-able, only to realize that employers were now asking for graduate degrees for positions that you KNOW can be fulfilled successfully by those with undergraduate degrees but they do it because they can. Essentially we have to adapt or die, its that simple.

Most of the names on the lists are performers (self-employed). In college you learn to think like an employee but the most successful people learn how to think like a business owner. Even if their business is self promotion.

I found an article on google of people making 6 figures from jobs you would have never expected - life coach, vending machine owner, consultants, etc. Think outside the box. If no one will hire you without a degree. Find a way to learn a trade or start a small business and create your own salary. I have a degree and I feel that I could have spent 1 year in the library reading books and I would have retained the exact same information without 4 years of listening to professors or spending $40K in tuition. Just like the PP said, if you have a degree they will want someone with a graduate degree, or asking for a lower salary, or has the right look. The closes guarantee you have for stability is learning how to go out, hit the pavement and make a buck.

However, before you go taking out a 3rd mortgage on the house to start your own business understand the field your getting into, the risk versus reward and most importantly the fail to success ration of that particular genre of business. I love when people advise others to just start a business, as if its that simple and especially in this economy. If you want to mortgage your families future on a start up then that's your business, just saying.

I see that you assume the only way to start a business is to take out a loan. I was referring to the list of famous people that were mentioned earlier. When you are an actor you are a business owner of "yourself". You learn how to perform and you hit the pavement and go on auditions. Yes this is not easy nor it is easy to be unemployed looking for work. So why not think outside the box and do something different.

No one suggested a loan, just other options such as life coach. You can gain a certification for around $300. If you do the work you can find clients and work out of your home. Please don't be so condescending when you have such a narrow view on ways of starting a business.

I'm just trying to give a dose of reality and your recommendation that someone go into life coaching simply because the "certification is $300" is ridiculous. But then again I think people who patron life coaches are even more ridiculous. Let me get life advice from someone who was out of work and the quickest way out of the unemployment line is to try and advise other people how to be successful, irony much? To be a life coach common sense says you would have had to been successful at life. You shouldn't poison people with absurdity. Real people are struggling and they don't need you to perpetuate stupid ideas that will get them no where.

This is my last response to you because you are showing how small minded you are and have no idea what you are talking about. A life coach helps people in "certain" areas of their lives, relationships, career, finances etc. If someone is a financial planner, CPA and out of work from a large corporation, they could be a life coach and help their client's to make financial plans. They go beyond being a financial advisor.

Suze Orman goes beyond giving investing advice and counsels the emotional side of how people spend money and make mistakes. Her books are all about financial psychology. So if someone like her lost their corporate job you’re saying you wouldn't listen to what she has to say? Because she is an unemployeed loser???

I wish you the best of luck with your job searching because you will never be successful unless someone gives you a paycheck.

Destined4More in Houston, Texas said:

No one suggested a loan, just other options such as life coach. You can gain a certification for around $300. If you do the work you can find clients and work out of your home.

I have a friend that started her own cleaning business a couple of years ago. She makes $1000 a week and doesn't even work 40 hours. That's some decent money there. Of course she does have to take out of that for taxes and cleaning supplies, but still good money after that. I know someone else that makes $80k a year cleaning houses. You just have to go after the rich people and make money off of them.

Cleaning isn't something that requires a degree or learning something new. Not that I would want to scrub other people's toilets, but who knew there was that good of money in house cleaning? I wouldn't have thought so.

Well Said Designer Bee. If you have the ability and know how to get started that is all you need. College is way to expensive. If it keeps going up higher than wages many people will only go to community college or just take the courses that they need for the field they are trying to get into. I have worked with both people who have advanced degrees and some with only a GED. Both can get the job done and meet deadlines. Those are the key items in a quality worker. The degree issue is just a way to eliminate the excess people. Tell me did your college tell you exactly how to perform your job? What about technology, that will change and what you learned at 22 years old will become out of date by the time you hit 40 anyway.

Cleaning houses is also a great idea. Also bartending at a high end hotel or restaurant can help pay the bills without a degree. I personally sold cosmetics and skin care products for 6 months while looking for a job. This helped me to keep a roof over my head and food on the table.

I'm not suggesting that people should give up on college or stop searching for a great job but in the mean time, it doesn't hurt to do something different to pay the bills.

"I took courses thinking that my bachelors degree would make me extremely hire-able, only to realize that employers were now asking for graduate degrees for positions that you KNOW can be fulfilled successfully by those with undergraduate degrees but they do it because they can. Essentially we have to adapt or die, its that simple."
I don't see who wins in this situation because credentialism has an inflationary effect in developed economies. The supply of good instruction has remained flat, while demand keeps growing, which forces tuition to rise, which forces the graduates to demand higher wages just to cover the rising tuition and interest accured on the tuition, which forces employers to create less positions in the long term for highly educated (native)workers because they are expensive. As long as schools and loan companies do things to keep tuitions rising, hiring native highly skilled labor will put many companies at disadvantage in the global economy. Increasing the average skillset of America's workforce was not suppose to boost wages, it was suppose to bring wages down. The goal of education was to match supply for highly skilled labor with demand. The idea is the lower wages would be made up by decreasing prices for goods and services. Energy today is suppose to be cheaper than energy in 1990, because more people and machines looking for fossil fuels were suppose to increase the supply of energy to the point where it met demand.

The problem is today is that the cost of many commodities are increasing when they are suppose to be decreasing. Education is a basic input into the economy but the cost of educating someone has been rising when it should have been falling. Electronics are the only products I can think of that have been getting cheaper. Everything else has been getting more expensive. A lot of employers are looking at smarter technology as a substitute to skilled workers, because they're cheaper than a human.

Interesting comment, avg.

AVG interesting argument. Here is my "push back." Unless you are truly altruistic (which few of us really are) and you have a degree, you want education costs to continue to rise, thus less people pursue/obtain degrees and ultimately the job market is less saturated with competition. Fact is more people are going to college now than ever, thus more people are entering the shaky job market and driving competition to all time highs. This gives the employers the "right" (and I use that term loosely) to ask for graduate degrees for positions that could successfully be fulfilled by bachelors degree holders or experienced personnel. I guess you could even say it's simple supply and demand. Another example that I recently heard about here in Florida is that by 2016 they will require Nurse Practitioners to obtain PHD's instead of the current requirement of just a Masters'. As we all know a PHD takes a lot more time and effort than a Masters, regardless of the field. I believe they are doing this because they A.Can and B.Thin out the over saturated field of potential Nurse Practitioners.

I just wonder who's going to pay for all those P.H.D.s. The government doesn't seem willing to spend more, despite what Obama said, and the private sector is beginning to wonder if anyone in the U.S. is going to be able to pay back their large debts, private and public. Three conditions, that would allow credentialism to continue; more federal funding, more low interest credit, or rising wages don't seem to be likely conditions in the future.

Interesting thread, and both sides have some valid points. I completely agree that an education is very worthwhile, and I am doing everything possible to ensure my children obtain degrees. However...I would also like to point out that any degree more then 8-10 years old is essentially worthless today. Not that what was learned at that time is wrong, but rather that the environment changes so much, and so many practices and methods change in that period of time. The person who has 20-30 years of experience without a degree can often (not always) far exceed the abilities of someone with 5-10 years of experience and a MBA. Consider that most people now in their mid-40's or older went to college before Microsoft had even created the first version of Windows, PC's ran on large tape drives, or perhaps a 5.25" floppy (with NO hard drive!), Six Sigma was no-existent, etc... Are you trying to tell me that a degree from the 70's or 80's is really relevant today? I don't buy it! I am an executive, and I will never, ever post a position requiring a degree unless a degree is TRULY required (primarily medical or legal). In most cases, I would far prefer to have the valid, successful application and experience over a degree.

Interesting thread, and both sides have some valid points. I completely agree that an education is very worthwhile, and I am doing everything possible to ensure my children obtain degrees. However...I would also like to point out that any degree more then 8-10 years old is essentially worthless today. Not that what was learned at that time is wrong, but rather that the environment changes so much, and so many practices and methods change in that period of time. The person who has 20-30 years of experience without a degree can often (not always) far exceed the abilities of someone with 5-10 years of experience and a MBA. Consider that most people now in their mid-40's or older went to college before Microsoft had even created the first version of Windows, PC's ran on large tape drives, or perhaps a 5.25" floppy (with NO hard drive!), Six Sigma was no-existent, etc... Are you trying to tell me that a degree from the 70's or 80's is really relevant today? I don't buy it! I am an executive, and I will never, ever post a position requiring a degree unless a degree is TRULY required (primarily medical or legal). In most cases, I would far prefer to have the valid, successful application and experience over a degree.