Entry level jobs that require experience?

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Yobobunkuk in Oregon City, Oregon

20 months ago

If even entry level jobs require experience how the hell is anyone supposed to get a job? I just saw some job posting for a entry-level market analyst that required both a 4-year degree(have one) AND 2 years of experience? How do companies get off on this crap..

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Bluetea in Texas

20 months ago

Yobobunkuk in Oregon City, Oregon said: If even entry level jobs require experience how the hell is anyone supposed to get a job? I just saw some job posting for a entry-level market analyst that required both a 4-year degree(have one) AND 2 years of experience? How do companies get off on this crap..

Today, entry level means 3 years experience. Heh!

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anonymous in Oakland, California

20 months ago

Well, what they have listed as requirements doesn't exactly mean you have to have it. Just apply anyway. My current (upcoming) job, required two years of full cycle AP and I had 0 years. Applied anyway and got it.

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Jeff in Denver, Colorado

20 months ago

Yobobunkuk in Oregon City, Oregon said: If even entry level jobs require experience how the hell is anyone supposed to get a job? I just saw some job posting for a entry-level market analyst that required both a 4-year degree(have one) AND 2 years of experience? How do companies get off on this crap..

They do it because they can. The requirements are generally preferences rather than absolute standards, because if no applicant meets the requirements the job has to be filled by someone (unless the company has the luxury of waiting months for the perfect candidate to apply). Companies like to set unrealistically high requirements because it allows them to turn down any candidate that they want to and have a defense against discrimination lawsuits. If a company doesn't want to hire you because you're over 50, they can simply say "You have X years of experience with A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H, I, J, and K, but not with L, so you aren't qualified."

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Unemployed Paralegal in Denver, Colorado

20 months ago

Jeff in Denver, Colorado said: If a company doesn't want to hire you because you're over 50, they can simply say "You have X years of experience with A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H, I, J, and K, but not with L, so you aren't qualified."
It's more simple than that. All they have to say is they have hired a candidate "who more closely fit [their] needs." Try to prove otherwise.

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jenab in Austin, Texas

20 months ago

Yobobunkuk in Oregon City, Oregon said: If even entry level jobs require experience how the hell is anyone supposed to get a job? I just saw some job posting for a entry-level market analyst that required both a 4-year degree(have one) AND 2 years of experience? How do companies get off on this crap..

Because it's an employers market, unless you're a software developer with a very current web/mobile skillset.

I've noticed there are "internships" being posted locally that require a few years experience -- as well as being a current student pursuing a degree in a related field. The mind boggles.

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Calfornian in Hayward, California

20 months ago

I think you can get past it, if you can get past it. IF it goes into a machine that is scanning for those criteria, good luck, if it lands in a person's hands, especially the hiring manager, then I think the game changes.

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Calfornian in Hayward, California

20 months ago

anonymous in Oakland, California said: Well, what they have listed as requirements doesn't exactly mean you have to have it. Just apply anyway. My current (upcoming) job, required two years of full cycle AP and I had 0 years. Applied anyway and got it.

I've worked in accounting, I've done everything :), and when I read your post, I did a wtf? Since when did AP and the words full-cycle go together? AP, in a corporate role, is largely matching up internal paperwork to an invoice and setting it up for payment. It doesn't require 2 years of experience, just a good head on the shoulders and the ability to do the same thing dozens of times a day.

I don't mean to be insulting, and apologize if I am, I'm just saying that requiring full-cycle AP, and two years experience, is kind of crazy.

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jenab in Austin, Texas

20 months ago

Calfornian in Hayward, California said: I think you can get past it, if you can get past it. IF it goes into a machine that is scanning for those criteria, good luck, if it lands in a person's hands, especially the hiring manager, then I think the game changes.

It definitely changes when you can bypass machines and deal with people.

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jenab in Austin, Texas

20 months ago

Calfornian in Hayward, California said: I've worked in accounting, I've done everything :), and when I read your post, I did a wtf? Since when did AP and the words full-cycle go together?

Heh. One of the classic job posting misfires around here is for software development -- where the minimal requirement for certain software development tools would require experience with it years before it was developed.

I did recruiting for a few months some years back, the way some reqs were written was lingo bingo and completely unrelated to the actual job.

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Bluetea in Texas

20 months ago

jenab in Austin, Texas said: Heh. One of the classic job posting misfires around here is for software development -- where the minimal requirement for certain software development tools would require experience with it years before it was developed.

I did recruiting for a few months some years back, the way some reqs were written was lingo bingo and completely unrelated to the actual job.

Something comes out of beta last week and already they want someone with 3 years experience.

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Jeff in Denver, Colorado

20 months ago

jenab in Austin, Texas said: Heh. One of the classic job posting misfires around here is for software development -- where the minimal requirement for certain software development tools would require experience with it years before it was developed.

I did recruiting for a few months some years back, the way some reqs were written was lingo bingo and completely unrelated to the actual job.

Hiring managers often want to make their company, and themselves, look impressive so they put in everything that they can think of. Then they fool themselves into believing that only someone who actually has years of experience with all those skills could handle the position.

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Jeff in Denver, Colorado

20 months ago

Calfornian in Hayward, California said: I've worked in accounting, I've done everything :), and when I read your post, I did a wtf? Since when did AP and the words full-cycle go together? AP, in a corporate role, is largely matching up internal paperwork to an invoice and setting it up for payment. It doesn't require 2 years of experience, just a good head on the shoulders and the ability to do the same thing dozens of times a day.

I don't mean to be insulting, and apologize if I am, I'm just saying that requiring full-cycle AP, and two years experience, is kind of crazy.

I think that it's just a knee-jerk reaction to put 2 years of experience for everything. Somehow, experience and competence have become conflated. In order to be incompetent at a job a person actually would have had to have tried to do the job and failed, which means that in order for a person to be incompetent they would have to have some experience.

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Bluetea in Texas

20 months ago

Jeff in Denver, Colorado said: I think that it's just a knee-jerk reaction to put 2 years of experience for everything. Somehow, experience and competence have become conflated. In order to be incompetent at a job a person actually would have had to have tried to do the job and failed, which means that in order for a person to be incompetent they would have to have some experience.

I agree. Its also a way for companies to slash their training budgets and reduce the strain on their already under-staffed employees.

Instead of saying "I'd like to show you how but I don't have the time", they say, "I thought you knew this?"

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Jeff in Denver, Colorado

20 months ago

Bluetea in Texas said: I agree. Its also a way for companies to slash their training budgets and reduce the strain on their already under-staffed employees.

Instead of saying "I'd like to show you how but I don't have the time", they say, "I thought you knew this?"

And is this because training shows up in the budget but inefficiencies caused by poorly skilled workers doesn't?

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Bluetea in Texas

20 months ago

Jeff in Denver, Colorado said: And is this because training shows up in the budget but inefficiencies caused by poorly skilled workers doesn't?

That's how they think.

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Jeff in Denver, Colorado

20 months ago

Bluetea in Texas said: That's how they think.

Another reason why in my next life I'm going to be an organizational psychologist. It's fascinating how organizations tend to be so much less than the sum of their parts. It's almost like everyone, no matter how well educated they are, tends to sink to the lowest common denominator when they are at work.

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Nick L in Medford, Massachusetts

15 months ago

anonymous in Oakland, California said: Well, what they have listed as requirements doesn't exactly mean you have to have it. Just apply anyway. My current (upcoming) job, required two years of full cycle AP and I had 0 years. Applied anyway and got it.

Well I am in my 30s and changing careers to electrician and pursuing the journeyman license. You need 4000 hours of work experience plus 600 hours of instruction to even sit for the exam. You are supposed to start out as an apprentice but all these apprentice positions all say you need at least 2 years of experience in the trade in a specific area such as residential or commercial. I don't even have a resume that would be applicable because all my prior experience is in back office investment accounting and yes I have a degree. Supposedly there is a huge shortage in these trades because kids graduating high school aren't interested

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Beth in Plano in Plano, Texas

15 months ago

Most kids don't want to get their hands dirty.

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Average in Medford, Massachusetts

15 months ago

Jeff in Denver, Colorado said: Another reason why in my next life I'm going to be an organizational psychologist. It's fascinating how organizations tend to be so much less than the sum of their parts. It's almost like everyone, no matter how well educated they are, tends to sink to the lowest common denominator when they are at work.

You make the assumption that most educated people are collectively smart, which has never been the case. Educated people are still human. Human behavior in large groups always regresses to the lowest common denominator. That is why large organizations seem to be slow to react to change and are clumsy at times. There. Saved you from the act of getting a useless psychology degree and a lifetime of over-analyzing in your next life.

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Bluetea in Texas

15 months ago

Average in Medford, Massachusetts said: That is why large organizations seem to be slow to react to change and are clumsy at times.

Steve Jobs said that revolutionary new products and new services will never come from established institutions. They are too big and too slow. Look at government agencies; everything takes forever.

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Joe Gagill in Monticello, New York

15 months ago

Bluetea in Texas said: Steve Jobs said that revolutionary new products and new services will never come from established institutions. They are too big and too slow. Look at government agencies; everything takes forever.

No sh*t Sherlock!

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Calfornian in Hayward, California

15 months ago

Bluetea in Texas said: Steve Jobs said that revolutionary new products and new services will never come from established institutions. They are too big and too slow. Look at government agencies; everything takes forever.

What the hell is Apple if it's not an established institution?

What about 3M? Bell Labs? NASA (yes, even now)?

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Bluetea in Texas

15 months ago

Calfornian in Hayward, California said: What the hell is Apple if it's not an established institution?

What about 3M? Bell Labs? NASA (yes, even now)?

What about Chrysler, Countrywide, Delta Airlines, Washington Mutual, Lehman Brothers, Bear Stearns, etc?

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Joe Gagill in Monticello, New York

15 months ago

Bluetea in Texas said: What about Chrysler, Countrywide, Delta Airlines, Washington Mutual, Lehman Brothers, Bear Stearns, etc?

There's also alot of small biz that go out of biz you know you know you know.

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Joe Gagill in Monticello, New York

15 months ago

I think there's a misconception with large corps. That they are too slow. I'm not sure that's the case. They have very poor customer service but slow to adapt to new ideas, I'm not that sure.

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Bluetea in Texas

15 months ago

Joe Gagill in Monticello, New York said: I think there's a misconception with large corps. That they are too slow. I'm not sure that's the case. They have very poor customer service but slow to adapt to new ideas, I'm not that sure.

We don't really have large corps anymore - not in the traditional sense. That was actually manufacturing when we made things like Oldsmobiles, Zenith Televisions and Hostess Twinkies.

What we have now are defense contractors, huge government and Wal-Mart.

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Jeff in Arlington, Virginia

15 months ago

Bluetea in Texas said: What about Chrysler, Countrywide, Delta Airlines, Washington Mutual, Lehman Brothers, Bear Stearns, etc?

Didn't they invent CDO's? And didn't the CDO's make the executives rich?

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Jeff in Arlington, Virginia

15 months ago

Average in Medford, Massachusetts said: You make the assumption that most educated people are collectively smart, which has never been the case. Educated people are still human. Human behavior in large groups always regresses to the lowest common denominator. That is why large organizations seem to be slow to react to change and are clumsy at times. There. Saved you from the act of getting a useless psychology degree and a lifetime of over-analyzing in your next life.

Try googling "A Stupidity-based Theory of Organizations". Some researches found that having too many "smart" people actually lowers the productivity of a company. This is why companies look for a "culture fit" during interviews, where "culture fit" means the willingness to uncritically buy what management is selling. I found that my co-workers at my last job fell into 2 categories: those who naively believed that everything was outstanding and those who saw the (numerous) flaws but were afraid to say anything (many of this group are now working elsewhere).

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Bluetea in Texas

15 months ago

Jeff in Arlington, Virginia said: Didn't they invent CDO's? And didn't the CDO's make the executives rich?

Filthy Rich. CDOs were fantasy financial obligations created out of thin air by Wall St. and sold to Main St. In the end, they were worthless and Wall St. asked The White House to bail them out using tax payer money. This resulted in all these bailouts and the start of The Great Recession.

"The Looting of America" by Les Leopold is a great but somewhat technical read as to how and why Wall St. came to run the show now known as USa Inc.

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Bluetea in Texas

15 months ago

Jeff in Arlington, Virginia said: and those who saw the (numerous) flaws but were afraid to say anything (many of this group are now working elsewhere).

This was my last company. We were affectionately known as "The Stepford Company" by outsiders. Of course, everyone was from somewhere else and as long as we got our paychecks, we did anything - no matter how stupid it was.

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Average in Medford, Massachusetts

15 months ago

Nick L in Medford, Massachusetts said: Well I am in my 30s and changing careers to electrician and pursuing the journeyman license. You need 4000 hours of work experience plus 600 hours of instruction to even sit for the exam.
How are you pursuing it? I had considered this myself, about four years ago. Then, I was told I needed a CDL to even be considered for a union apprenticeship.
It's harder to get into a trade than many colleges. The barriers to entry to the trades are most likely a combination of efforts by unions to limit competition, regulations to insure that trained individuals are actually competent, and cut-backs in funding for vocational training by government. Government spending on vocational education is controlled by taxpayers, who overwhelmingly think a college graduate has more value to society than a carpenter.

Beth in Plano in Plano, Texas said: Most kids don't want to get their hands dirty.
One thing the educational-industrial complex is really good at, is shaping attitudes. A lot of middle class kids have been led to believe by their teachers and parents that a cushy job is a slam dunk away and that they have a reasonable shot at becoming wealthy if they get those college credentials. To them, a job that requires getting their hands dirty may seem like a detour from their destinies.

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John in Millersville, Maryland

15 months ago

Average in Medford, Massachusetts said: Government spending on vocational education is controlled by taxpayers, who overwhelmingly think a college graduate has more value to society than a carpenter.

Quite true. I see that evidenced on my street. There are people who are so mechanically inept, I am truly amazed they can figure out how to start their car. Yet, if anything at all breaks, they are completely clueless as to what to do.

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Nick L in Medford, Massachusetts

15 months ago

Average in Medford, Massachusetts said: How are you pursuing it? I had considered this myself, about four years ago. Then, I was told I needed a CDL to even be considered for a union apprenticeship.
It's harder to get into a trade than many colleges. The barriers to entry to the trades are most likely a combination of efforts by unions to limit competition, regulations to insure that trained individuals are actually competent, and cut-backs in funding for vocational training by government. Government spending on vocational education is controlled by taxpayers, who overwhelmingly think a college graduate has more value to society than a carpenter.

I think you are just talking about getting into one of the trade unions. I am open to anything to gain the required hours for the experience.
I am running into the problem of lack of experience. Apprentice or helper positions which are considered entry level and start off around $10 an hour require at least two years of experience as stated in the job post

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Joe Gagill in Monticello, New York

15 months ago

The trade unions are tough to get into. At least in NY.

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blah in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania

15 months ago

anonymous in Oakland, California said: Well, what they have listed as requirements doesn't exactly mean you have to have it. Just apply anyway. My current (upcoming) job, required two years of full cycle AP and I had 0 years. Applied anyway and got it.

What year did you apply for it?

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blah in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania

15 months ago

Not entirely too much why this one would require at least five years experience.

www.careerbuilder.com/JobSeeker/Jobs/JobDetails.aspx?APath=2.21.0.0.0&job_did=JHR4F36PC1M1CQ4RPR6&showNewJDP=yes&IPath=QHKTVGM0J

Why would someone who has been in the field for at least five years want to that position just to make just $13.00?? That is sure moving backwards. I wish recruiters would be more realistic about who would take on this role.

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