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DesertSunrise in Ypsilanti, Michigan

18 months ago

Cheshire in Mississauga, Ontario said: People in general will make that statement that its a 40hr a week job and how they've send out 300+ applications when realistically its not when it comes to applying to positions. Nobody in particular in this forum is saying it, it was comment I added to my earlier post. I've read it various times on other forums and on career blogs and what have you.

There are still a large number of people literally spamming resumes everywhere b/c they either can't be bothered to put in the time or simply don't understand theres more too it. This ties back into the thread and LinkedIn and (in my opinion and experience) usefulness. If anything I feel a bit more in control knowing that I've investigated and critiqued just like they're doing to me.

I agree. I have come across people on other forums making general statements about how many resumes they send out in a week. Lots of comments on articles have people talking about how they've sent out so many resumes, but apparently haven't done much else to search for a job. However I rarely see comments like this by the regulars here. Most of the people I talk to on here only apply to to jobs they are qualified for. So that's why I got a bit upset with you. I apologize for not hearing you out.
I've been talking to a lot of these people for awhile now, and I'm rather protective of some of them because I know how long they've been trying to find a job and what their situations are like. Just as they know my situation. I know we all are technically strangers, but I've bonded with several of them due to our shared unemployed status.

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Cheshire in Mississauga, Ontario

18 months ago

No problem, tone is always hard to read online and I'm glad you took the time to see what I was trying to get across.

Like I said its very difficult for me to discuss this stuff with my peers both employed and unemployed. Partly why I came out of lurking and joined the discussion. Its like my peers are in denial or our collective unemployment is something to be ashamed of. I either get silence or surprise at what I'm saying (because they haven't looked in depth at the situation at all). You also get a 'lazy, whiner, entitled Gen Y' stigma attached to you if you try and discuss with certain people which is incredibly frustrating as its just not true at all. It might be for some young people but I don't count myself as one of them.

I also am at the point where discussing interviews and the conclusions has gotten embarrassing b/c I've been on so many and have had nothing but rejection (with the exception of contract work). Trying to explain this to people who don't understand the reasons or find it too unbelievable has become pointless. I end sounding like I'm making excuses when I know I'm not. I also find people in 'real life' aren't up to sharing all the details, they'd rather keep it to themselves, which goes back to the shame thing.

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DesertSunrise in Ypsilanti, Michigan

18 months ago

Cheshire in Mississauga, Ontario said:
I also am at the point where discussing interviews and the conclusions has gotten embarrassing b/c I've been on so many and have had nothing but rejection (with the exception of contract work). Trying to explain this to people who don't understand the reasons or find it too unbelievable has become pointless. I end sounding like I'm making excuses when I know I'm not. I also find people in 'real life' aren't up to sharing all the details, they'd rather keep it to themselves, which goes back to the shame thing.

I'm in my early twenties, so I can definitely relate to what your saying. A lot of people my age were told that if they went to college and did well, they would find a good job. My parents used to tell me this all the time, because that was the case with them. Well, a lot of us young people are realizing the sad truth: college doesn't guarantee a good job anymore. In actuality, it doesn't guarantee ANY job, let alone a well paying one. But the older generations, especially the boomers, can't see this.
I've had several boomers (my parents included) tell me that I wasn't doing enough to find a job. Because I search primarily online, they deemed it as me being too lazy to go door to door. When I write follow-up e-mails, they tell me I should be sending thank you notes in the mail. They also can't see how even getting a job at McDonalds is competitive now. There aren't as many jobs available as there were back then. So many of the jobs they used to have don't exist in America anymore. They've been outsourced overseas.
I've tried explaining how things are different now, but very few will listen to me. The few who do listen, are those that are unemployed and have seen firsthand how ridiculous it is trying to find a job these days.
Continued in next post...

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DesertSunrise in Ypsilanti, Michigan

18 months ago

And my peers aren't any better. People my age want to pretend they aren't struggling. They want to pretend that have everything under control and never want to talk about the tough stuff in life. I've tried talking to some of my old classmates, and both the employed and unemployed have stopped talking to me. The employed ones don't want to hear about how tough the job market is. All they care about is their life, and since they aren't unemployed, they don't care. The unemployed ones seem to be ashamed (just like you stated), and don't want to talk about not having a job.

What I've stated in this post and the one before doesn't stand for everyone. The boomers I've come across on this site are smart, and the realize that things are vastly different now. I haven't been looked down on because of my age here. So everything I've stated above is not what I feel about boomers as a whole. It's just what I've encountered several times outside of the internet. Same for the gen Y's.

I will admit. There are a a lot of very lazy, very self-entitled gen Y's out there. But we aren't all like that. Same for the boomers, Same for the gen X's.

And now I'm rambling....I don't even know if I wrote a decent reply. Hopefully all of this made sense.

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John in Catonsville, Maryland

18 months ago

Yes, many "boomers" are giving very out of date advise and have no clue how different things are now. I am a "boomer" and know how hard things are now. I consider myself very lucky that my folks keep up to date and also realize how hard the job market is now.

Things are tough for young and mature alike and has been for a few years now.

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DesertSunrise in Ypsilanti, Michigan

18 months ago

John in Catonsville, Maryland said: Yes, many "boomers" are giving very out of date advise and have no clue how different things are now. I am a "boomer" and know how hard things are now. I consider myself very lucky that my folks keep up to date and also realize how hard the job market is now.

Things are tough for young and mature alike and has been for a few years now.

Thanks John. I hope other people realize that my comment is not an attack against boomers. Not my intention at all.
I'm glad your parents recognize how rough finding a job is now. My parents are finally starting to realize how different the job market is from when they were young. It's pretty sad. It's like the end of an era.

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John in Catonsville, Maryland

18 months ago

One of my cousins has been looking for a position for a while. My uncle doesn't think my cousin is doing enough (i.e. not going out "beating the bushes" which we all know does not work the way it used to).

My folks are in their 80s and do a very good job of keeping up to date with reliable news.

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Joe Gagill in Monticello, New York

18 months ago

John in Catonsville, Maryland said: One of my cousins has been looking for a position for a while. My uncle doesn't think my cousin is doing enough (i.e. not going out "beating the bushes" which we all know does not work the way it used to).

They all think that John. I bet Uncle hasn't looked for a job in a decade. And I bet he's got some serious nose hair going on.

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jenab in Austin, Texas

18 months ago

Cheshire in Mississauga, Ontario said: Even cumulatively, thats a lot. I suppose it makes the person feel like they're doing something but its not helping matters either. That just leads to another cycle of applying > hope > bitterness when nothing comes of it > blame > applying some more using the same method as before.

It depends on how long you've been out of work. And unfortunately there are quite a few who no longer count in weeks, or even months, but years. If they're lucky enough to still be able to get unemployment benefits, they *have* to keep applying. If they're getting any other assistance, they *have* to keep applying. Heaven help anyone who admits they restrict the number of applications sent, resumes submitted, or contacts made; they not only risk losing benefits but having to pay them back. People are not applying just to waste time, they're doing it because they have to, and because they Just Want A Job.

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Beth in Plano in Plano, Texas

18 months ago

DesertSunrise,

What does your husband say about your unemployment ?

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Beth in Plano in Plano, Texas

18 months ago

Maybe I overlooked it...
But what was your college major ?

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Bluetea in Texas

18 months ago

DesertSunrise in Ypsilanti, Michigan said: Thanks John. I hope other people realize that my comment is not an attack against boomers. Not my intention at all.
I'm glad your parents recognize how rough finding a job is now. My parents are finally starting to realize how different the job market is from when they were young. It's pretty sad. It's like the end of an era.

I am a Boomer and I don't live at home. Both parents are long gone. What sustains me is not Mom's meatloaf but that I was smart enough or lucky enough to buy income property when I was young.

This is the worst job market since The Great Depression for young and old, the rules have changed. Still, there is no shortage of "helpful" career advice. You can choke on it.

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Bluetea in Texas

18 months ago

Joe Gagill in Monticello, New York said: They all think that John. I bet Uncle hasn't looked for a job in a decade. And I bet he's got some serious nose hair going on.

No, that would be my Aunt Camille. She is from the Italian side of the family.

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Joe Gagill in Monticello, New York

18 months ago

Bluetea in Texas said: No, that would be my Aunt Camille. She is from the Italian side of the family.

Aunt Camille has nose hair. I'll make sure I stay away from Italian women.

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DesertSunrise in Ypsilanti, Michigan

18 months ago

Beth in Plano in Plano, Texas said: DesertSunrise,

What does your husband say about your unemployment ?

Can't tell if your joking with me or not. I'm horrible when it comes getting jokes.

I'm not married. And I majored in Business merchandising and technical design.

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Bluetea in Texas

18 months ago

Joe Gagill in Monticello, New York said: Aunt Camille has nose hair. I'll make sure I stay away from Italian women.

Why do Italian boys want to grow mustaches?

So, they can look like their mothers.

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jenab in Austin, Texas

18 months ago

Cheshire in Mississauga, Ontario said: Its like my peers are in denial or our collective unemployment is something to be ashamed of.

I'm probably going to get grief for showing my geek side, probably my age (and get another "no"), but the quote I keep thinking about the last few weeks is:

“Wouldn't it be much worse if life were fair and all the terrible things that happen to us, come because actually deserve them? So now I take comfort in the general hostility and unfairness of the Universe”

I'm glad you delurked, Cheshire. :)

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Bluetea in Texas

18 months ago

jenab in Austin, Texas said: I'm probably going to get grief for showing my geek side, probably my age (and get another "no"), but the quote I keep thinking about the last few weeks is:

“Wouldn't it be much worse if life were fair and all the terrible things that happen to us, come because actually deserve them? So now I take comfort in the general hostility and unfairness of the Universe”

I'm glad you delurked, Cheshire. :)

Philosophically, you are a Nihilist. They believe that the Universe is just chaotic and whatever meaning you see, is an illusion created by your mind to keep you from hanging yourself.

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jenab in Austin, Texas

18 months ago

Bluetea in Texas said: Philosophically, you are a Nihilist. They believe that the Universe is just chaotic and whatever meaning you see, is an illusion created by your mind to keep you from hanging yourself.

Nah, I just keep finding ways to resist my a guilt heritage. :D

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jenab in Austin, Texas

18 months ago

(and typoese will live forever to haunt me)

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Beth in Plano in Plano, Texas

18 months ago

Desert,

Sorry, I thought you were older. You will find a job in the near future.

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Cheshire in Mississauga, Ontario

18 months ago

jenab in Austin, Texas said: It depends on how long you've been out of work. And unfortunately there are quite a few who no longer count in weeks, or even months, but years. If they're lucky enough to still be able to get unemployment benefits, they *have* to keep applying. If they're getting any other assistance, they *have* to keep applying. Heaven help anyone who admits they restrict the number of applications sent, resumes submitted, or contacts made; they not only risk losing benefits but having to pay them back. People are not applying just to waste time, they're doing it because they have to, and because they Just Want A Job.

That just goes to show you how messed up the system is. Rather than retraining and finding ways to get people back to work you have people sending off resume after resume b/c they don't want to lose those benefits. What do you even say in this situation?

I was reading something about how often those benefits add up to more than what would be paid out if that person was working...scary stuff.

Also, just wanting a job is not going to get you one. I know its harsh but lets talk reality here. I dont want to keep harping on my past points but they apply here. Employers want someone who wants to be there for more than just a paycheque, which is largely what people work for unless they're lucky enough to make a go of their 'passion.'

I'm glad I delurked too, haven't had this kind of discussion in a while. Its hard to find a forum where you don't get trolled or called a whiner b/c you're questioning this stuff.

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Cheshire in Mississauga, Ontario

18 months ago

My parents are slowly realizing that things are not the same. They've stopped asking me how interviewing is going, they know I'm trying.

I owe them a lot as well and I'm very grateful to them.

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Unemployed Paralegal in Denver, Colorado

18 months ago

Cheshire in Mississauga, Ontario said: Its hard to find a forum where you don't get trolled or called a whiner b/c you're questioning this stuff.
Oh, this place has its trolls....

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DesertSunrise in Ypsilanti, Michigan

18 months ago

Beth in Plano in Plano, Texas said: Desert,

Sorry, I thought you were older. You will find a job in the near future.

Oh okay, don't be sorry, it was just a question. I technically have found a job. I got hired at CVS a week ago. I start off as part-time for a couple of weeks to "prove myself", and then if I pass a series of tests, I should be full-time with benefits. It's nowhere close to my ideal job, but it's a job. I hope the manager was honest about the position becoming full-time, because I need as many hours as I can get. Student loans, medical bills, and trying to purchase a car are weighing heavily on me right now.
I know I can pass whatever tests they give me. You can can bet I'll be working my butt off at this job. I don't want to give them any reason to lay me off. I can't handle many more months with no income whatsoever. These loans have to be paid. If not, my credit will be completely ruined before I even reach 25 years of age.

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Beth in Plano in Plano, Texas

18 months ago

Don't worry, you won't be at CVS for the rest of your life... but for the time being work hard and use them as a stepping stone / reference . When I got layed off I was working part-time at AutoZone and at a hospital gift shop. Not my choice of jobs but a year later I was at a better job.

You will land a must better job in the future, but for a short while you just have to circle the wagons and be in hunker down mode.

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Unemployed Paralegal in Denver, Colorado

18 months ago

DesertSunrise in Ypsilanti, Michigan said: I got hired at CVS a week ago. I start off as part-time for a couple of weeks to "prove myself", and then if I pass a series of tests, I should be full-time with benefits. It's nowhere close to my ideal job, but it's a job.
I have a friend who worked part-time in a drug store during college. He moved with his mother to another state. He got a job at a major drug store chain in that state. Eventually he became a manager. He stayed with that chain for more than twenty years.

I know that managing drug stores wasn't his first love, but he still did well.

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DesertSunrise in Ypsilanti, Michigan

18 months ago

Beth in Plano in Plano, Texas said: Don't worry, you won't be at CVS for the rest of your life... but for the time being work hard and use them as a stepping stone / reference . When I got layed off I was working part-time at AutoZone and at a hospital gift shop. Not my choice of jobs but a year later I was at a better job.

You will land a must better job in the future, but for a short while you just have to circle the wagons and be in hunker down mode.

Thanks, Beth. I'm happy for this job. I really need it. I'm hoping to work my way up in the company. I know the likelihood of getting past a manager position is low, but I'm a determined and hardworking person.
I wouldn't have gotten this job if I didn't have help. One of the staff members at my college took pity on me and asked a personal friend, who works at CVS corporate, to get me an interview at one of my local stores. The only reason I probably got this job was because of this person putting in a good word for me and promoting my skills. It's not like I'm related or know this person personally. They just felt like helping me out. I'm extremely grateful, because I hadn't had any calls or interviews for several weeks. Even fast food places were sending me rejection e-mails.

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Calfornian in Hayward, California

18 months ago

Cheshire in Mississauga, Ontario said: Employers want someone who wants to be there for more than just a paycheque, which is largely what people work for unless they're lucky enough to make a go of their 'passion.'

I had a lot of gripes about my last employer but the president had a way with words that I liked. One of the things he used to say was "if we didn't pay people no one would show up". The industry wasn't perfect and the company had more than its share of problems but in some ways it was really nicely grounded.

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Bluetea in Texas

18 months ago

Calfornian in Hayward, California said: I had a lot of gripes about my last employer but the president had a way with words that I liked. One of the things he used to say was "if we didn't pay people no one would show up". The industry wasn't perfect and the company had more than its share of problems but in some ways it was really nicely grounded.

So what happened to that job? I am always curious becaues I read that we are all somehow complicit in being here. We didn't see the signs or something.

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Unemployed Paralegal in Denver, Colorado

18 months ago

Bluetea in Texas said: Trolls? Oh, its that unemployed guy giving career advice again. Y'all pay attention now when he starts pontificating on the importance of the Thank You card. Its priceless.

Sorry Unemployed Guy, just having a bit of a laff. Joe isn't around and he is usually my straight man.

i wasn't talking about you. But if you feel it fits, be my "guest." Looks like I got the last "laff."

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Unemployed Paralegal in Denver, Colorado

18 months ago

Bluetea in Texas said: Sorry Unemployed Guy, just having a bit of a laff. Joe isn't around and he is usually my straight man.
That's MISTER Unemployed Guy to you.

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Calfornian in Hayward, California

18 months ago

Bluetea in Texas said: So what happened to that job? I am always curious becaues I read that we are all somehow complicit in being here. We didn't see the signs or something.

The company crashed and burned. I can't say I expected it 10 years ago but once it got rolling, it really got rolling. It comes up in interviews and because I had a really good seat for the show I know a lot about what went on, almost everything in fact. I could probably write a book about "how to not save a company". But it's better for me to just say nothing or blame the economy. It was easily the craziest thing I've ever been a part of and when I try to explain it, it comes off so crazy that people don't believe it. I barely believe it.

It was a good employer for a long time and just overnight all hell breaks loose.

As far as complicity, yup, I own me some of that, probably a lot more than most here. But, maybe, just maybe, I'm finally waking up.

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Bluetea in Texas

18 months ago

Calfornian in Hayward, California said: The company crashed and burned. I can't say I expected it 10 years ago but once it got rolling, it really got rolling. It comes up in interviews and because I had a really good seat for the show I know a lot about what went on, almost everything in fact. I could probably write a book about "how to not save a company". But it's better for me to just say nothing or blame the economy. It was easily the craziest thing I've ever been a part of and when I try to explain it, it comes off so crazy that people don't believe it. I barely believe it.

It was a good employer for a long time and just overnight all hell breaks loose.

As far as complicity, yup, I own me some of that, probably a lot more than most here. But, maybe, just maybe, I'm finally waking up.

How did you get that job? I like nostalgia.

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Calfornian in Hayward, California

18 months ago

Bluetea in Texas said: How did you get that job? I like nostalgia.

It was a temporary gig that went permanent. I don't even remember the agency name.

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jenab in Austin, Texas

18 months ago

Cheshire in Mississauga, Ontario said: I was reading something about how often those benefits add up to more than what would be paid out if that person was working...scary stuff.

Also, just wanting a job is not going to get you one. I know its harsh but lets talk reality here. I dont want to keep harping on my past points but they apply here.

There's a lot of misinformation out there; Unemployment Benefits are intentionally set at levels that cover basic expenses but not equivalent to your last salary.

That's a fallacy just like how hard it is for employers to find skilled workers.

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Unemployed Paralegal in Denver, Colorado

18 months ago

Cheshire in Mississauga, Ontario said: I was reading something about how often those benefits add up to more than what would be paid out if that person was working...scary stuff.
jenab in Austin, Texas said: There's a lot of misinformation out there; Unemployment Benefits are intentionally set at levels that cover basic expenses but not equivalent to your last salary.
Straw man logical fallacy. You distorted the original comment and then proceeded to knock down the distortion.

Some people can collect more income off unemployment benefits than they could if they were employed in some stuff. That's the scary stuff.

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Cheshire in Mississauga, Ontario

18 months ago

Bluetea in Texas said: Oh, I think many people and perhaps a few potential employers have you stereotyped as well but that is beside the point.

I know they have, theres no doubt in my mind in fact. I'm Gen Y, glued to my smartphone, entitled and want to be the CEO by next month, I also probably don't know what 'hard work' truly means and still probably live with/off my parents.

The industry I'm looking to find work in is not the technical by any means (marketing > agency/client side). A lot of these places hire for a certain 'look.' How do I know this? I've been in a variety and see it over and over again. There's no excuse or blaming going on here...it is complete fact. To ignore it as a potential reason would be dumb.

Aside from that, I'm young and still a liability in terms of training and what I'd actually contribute or bring to the table. I never seem to get a chance in any of these interviews to actually make a case for myself b/c the interviewer is too busy telling me their life story or will cut me off/talk over me.

I've had very few 'true' HR people interview me, its usually the hiring manager (who is flying by the seat of his/her pants).

Bluetea in Texas said: After, 2 downsizes and one termination, I think I have learned a few things. My bag of tricks may just be different than yours.

Oh really? Care to share what's different? obviously you have a lot more experience to play back on.

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Bluetea in Texas

18 months ago

Cheshire in Mississauga, Ontario said:

Oh really? Care to share what's different? obviously you have a lot more experience to play back on.

No. We come from different generations so we will always be at odds.

Absorb what you find useful and throw out the rest. That is what I do.

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Bluetea in Texas

18 months ago

Unemployed Paralegal in Denver, Colorado said: Some people can collect more income off unemployment benefits than they could if they were employed in some stuff. That's the scary stuff.

The unemployed tend to spend less as being employed does require certain maintenance costs: gas, dry cleaning, lunches, hair cuts, clothes, etc.

My friend Joe, hasn't been out of the house in years. He looks like a Neanderthal.

Love ya Joe!

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Joe Gagill in Monticello, New York

18 months ago

Bluetea in Texas said: The unemployed tend to spend less as being employed does require certain maintenance costs: gas, dry cleaning, lunches, hair cuts, clothes, etc.

My friend Joe, hasn't been out of the house in years. He looks like a Neanderthal.

Love ya Joe!

I got my hair cut on fri, first time in a very long time. My last interview was early Nov, I really wanted that job.

I use to get the hair done every 2 weeks.

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Jeff in Denver, Colorado

18 months ago

Unemployed Paralegal in Denver, Colorado said: Some people can collect more income off unemployment benefits than they could if they were employed in some stuff. That's the scary stuff.

Should unemployment be set to the minimum wage?

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Unemployed Paralegal in Denver, Colorado

18 months ago

Maybe.... but for some people it may still pay more than employment. Not to mention that welfare often pays more than employment for many people.

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Bluetea in Texas

18 months ago

Jeff in Denver, Colorado said: Should unemployment be set to the minimum wage?

Higher. LOL!

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Cheshire in Mississauga, Ontario

18 months ago

Bluetea in Texas said: No. We come from different generations so we will always be at odds.

Absorb what you find useful and throw out the rest. That is what I do.

Fair enough.

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Cheshire in Mississauga, Ontario

18 months ago

DesertSunrise in Ypsilanti, Michigan said: And my peers aren't any better. People my age want to pretend they aren't struggling. They want to pretend that have everything under control and never want to talk about the tough stuff in life. I've tried talking to some of my old classmates, and both the employed and unemployed have stopped talking to me. The employed ones don't want to hear about how tough the job market is. All they care about is their life, and since they aren't unemployed, they don't care. The unemployed ones seem to be ashamed (just like you stated), and don't want to talk about not having a job.

Yes, yes and yes. I used to find it really frustrating. I don't bother discussing it with them anymore either, theres no point, its like talking to a brick wall. I get a sense of a lot of people who're living on cruise control, just getting by.

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Beth in Plano in Plano, Texas

18 months ago

Cheshire,

You will find something you like... just be patient. I know it must be eating you up inside but this new year things will change for the better.

Are you currently working contract /part-time?
Do you have student loans?

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Joe Gagill in Monticello, New York

18 months ago

Beth in Plano in Plano, Texas said: Cheshire,

You will find something you like... just be patient. I know it must be eating you up inside but this new year things will change for the better.

Your such a nice person Beth. What are you doing hanging around bad people like us?

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Cheshire in Mississauga, Ontario

18 months ago

Beth in Plano in Plano, Texas said: Cheshire,

You will find something you like... just be patient. I know it must be eating you up inside but this new year things will change for the better.

Are you currently working contract /part-time?
Do you have student loans?

Hi Beth, thanks for asking. I'm currently doing very random contract based work by being on a variety of different companies rosters (event staffing, promo work etc). The sad thing is I can make more in three days time for some projects than I ever would in an office for 40hrs. Too bad its so haphazard though..especially during the winter months, projects/campaigns dry up. I've been lucky this winter and I'm glad I planned ahead and applied to companies that hire for this type of casual work. It keeps something coming in and keeps me sane. I also get to meet a ton of people and keep my name and face out there.

My thinking is that should an opportunity pop up, I've already worked with these people, they will hopefully consider me and it will be based on something more than a resume.

As for student loans, no I don't have any thankfully. I have a degree and worked for a year, then I decided to go back to school and have always been a saver (thanks to my parents example) I managed to pay it all off.

What is your situation?

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Cheshire in Mississauga, Ontario

18 months ago

* the year I worked was all fixed term contracts with no hope for permanency. I've had a lot of contract gigs, in fact off my jobs since school have been contracts, I would like something permanent. That seems to be out of my reach for the moment.

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