Personal Marketing Firm- Paying a Recruiter to find you a job. Scam or real deal?

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TJJC in Southlake, Texas

74 months ago

I am in the early stages of a job search. I had a long discussion today with a man from ITS Personal Marketing. They are a national firm that specialize in finding positions for people. They tap into the "unpublished market" and use extensive research and networking to find jobs for you that are not posted.

The cost is about $5-6K. Has anyone ever used a firm like this? I liked what he had to say and feel like it might be a viable option. He said they have a 99% success rate in placing people and that candidates usually get a minimum of 20% more in salary than they were asking for. If you take an offer you find on your own, if you dont like their service or if they dont find you something they refund the money. If I could get an increase in salary like that, it would make the $5K worth it I think.

Anyone know if these firms are the real deal... or a scam??

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F-Bomb in Los Angeles, California

74 months ago

Wow, that sounds pretty fishy. I now have a corporate recruiter postion but I used to be a full cycle recruiter where we would go out and find not only the candidates but the openings as well.

If we found a really good candidate and did not have a job for them, we would go and market them to companies who had positions posted but we never charged the candidate for this service.

I would be wary of the "unpublished market" claim. These days, if a company has a need, they post it. However, there are companies out there who are looking to let someone go and are reluctant to post the position.

There are plenty of search firms out there that will market you to companies for free. They do this because they can earn a $15,000 to $30,000 fee from the employer if they place you. And if you have marketable skills, you're like gold to them.

I would also be wary of claim of a 99% success rate and 20% increase in salary. Sounds too good to be true. They might as well have claimed 100%. Also, I would read the fine print about this supposed refund. I'm sure there are some very big catches there.

I guess I would be VERY careful and do your homework. Having to pay $5,000 seems pretty outrageous.

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TJJC in Portland, Maine

74 months ago

Oh wow! Thanks for the link. I will read this in detail tonight. Thank you! I tried to find any info on ITS online and I couldnt find anything.

I think I'll stay away.

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Jen in Austin, Texas

74 months ago

DON'T DO IT!! ITS Personal Marketing is a TOTAL SCAM!

I thought the exact same thing. It's a lot of money but if it works then it's worth it...

I am a marketing professional (at a Fortune 10 company with wonderful references) that moved across the country and I figured that if they could get me a job in a new city that would be worth the $7K. That was January. The resume they wrote was pretty good and they had some great ideas for letters, but you have to do ALL the work after that. They have a huge database and apparantly that is their main service. They told me that finding another job in my price range wouldn't be a problem in a 3 to 4 month time frame. EVERY interview I got was on my own. They said they would do all of these mailings and faxes and maybe they did... I really have no way of knowing but the only thing that came from it was a few colleges that sent me a postcard stating that they didn't have any open positions. I had NO desire to work at a college.

I complained about the inactivity and told them I expected a high level of service for that much money. The told me that was what the expensive database is for and asked what I would have them do... um... FIND ME A JOB! duh!

I requested my money back since it had been 6 months and nothing but drama from ITS. It has been a nightmare dealing with them! Certainly not a professional company. I explained that I was extremely dissatisfied and talked to about 5 different people about it. They keep offering to redo the campaign. So more of the same paltry service?! PASS.

I have now been offered 3 options:
1. more of the same (sub-par) service
2. 10% of my money back (which is almost offensive)
3. Arbitration

Please don't waste your money. I thought I did due diligence in researching, but I guess not... This site would have helped too: randomconvergence.blogspot.com/2006/03/rest-of-mckenzie-scott-saga.html

ITS Personal Marketing is SHADY, SHADY, SHADY... It take

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TJJC in Portland, Maine

74 months ago

Jen- I'm so sorry for your horrible experience. I got very swept up in the conversation I had with the guy today. They are smooth talkers- thats for sure. I guess that old adage is true- if it sounds too good to be true, it is.

It sounds like you have a great background. I cant imagine you'll be on the market long. That is a lot of money for a resume and a "database". I think I'll tell this guy to get lost.

I think they prey on the unemployed.. how shady.

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Jen in Austin, Texas

74 months ago

That's nice of you. I just reread what I wrote and it obviously gets me fired up. Yikes. I dislike being so negative, but $7K gets me ruffled and I wish I would have known a little more before I joined. I feel pretty silly for having "fallen" for it. I intend to file a complaint w the Better Business Bureau.

Anyway, I hope my story helps.

I have decided to go into business for myself consulting, so maybe that is the silver lining. :)

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Shannon

74 months ago

I actually used the service, too, but had a pretty terrific experience overall.

I knew going in exactly what to expect: that they did the writing of the resumes and letters, but that they provided me with the tools (lots and lots of technology and databases)to find the jobs. It's all over their contract what the expectations are.

The resume made a world of difference, and with the help they gave me on the interviewing, I had a couple of great offers from which to choose.

No, they don't go and find the jobs for you. They'll tell you that right up front. But, they will give you the tools, which, believe me, you can't access on your own, to find some great opportunities.

It's a relatively new concept, I think, so it's unavoidable that people will be wary of them.

For some valid data about them, check out the Better Business Bureau website (Denver, I think, sorry, don't have the address) about them.

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Franks and Beans in Anchorage, Alaska

74 months ago

Shannon - you've been duped! You could have done all of this on your own. Resumes and letters do not get you jobs, they get your foot in the door and I'm sure you could have done that on your own. There are a thousand free resources for interviewing tips and techniques out there.

And those tools you mentioned that "you can't access on your own." How do you think all the people who didn't pay for this rip-off are getting their jobs?

I'm glad that you feel that it was worth it, but for those who are thinking about forking over thousands of dollars to this scam, don't do it.

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Shannon in Denver, Colorado

74 months ago

Sadly, I was unaware of how to get my resume past the filters on the boards, at the recruiters, etc. 'Key words': amazing how the calls started rolling in after they posted my resume for me.

I didn't have access, nor do you or most people, to the subscriptions and databases that they had. I got a nearly 100 page report on one of the companies I researched! Yup, I could pay for the subscriptions (Dow Jones, etc.) but I wouldn't know where to begin.

The people who get their jobs w/o these services? Great for them! I didn't want just a job. My career's really important to me, and the $24k increase in salary, plus the signing bonus and relo package MORE than paid for the fees I paid ITS.

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Franks and Beans in Anchorage, Alaska

74 months ago

John Davidson in Denver, Colorado said: This board needs to go in a different direction. I am a client of this firm as well, and ITS did a great job for me. They provided a full range of services including access to job openings, leads, and contacts, resume writing services, resume distribution services, and ongoing support. They delivered exactly what they sold me.

Their books, literature etc describing the services are "right on", and the contract I signed put the performance for the service on ITS. I found a job in 8 weeks. You would have to be a idiot not to understand what ITS does, and does not do, when you read all of their literature and materials. And, this is obviously all before you sign up as a client.

When I began my job hunt I was pitched by a lot of firms who wanted to provide services to me, none of them treated my as well as ITS.

Why does this forum need to go in a different direction? Read the title: "Personal Marketing Firm- Paying a Recruiter to find you a job. Scam or real deal?"

It's a forum for people to post their opinions. And calling someone an idiot for not understanding something? I think that's a direction this forum does not need to take.

That's nice that it worked out for you. And I'm sure someone will read your opinion and be helped by it. But please don't try to stifle others opinions.

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Jennifer Swanson in Denver, Colorado

74 months ago

Just thought I would through in my 2-sense. I had a good experience with ITS Personal Marketing Services as well.

My advice is the same for all people considering buying any service. Make sure alot of good information in available to make a good decision. Checking out the BBB is always good as well.

You can also always tell a good company if they have guarantees that protect the consumer, and also if they offer arbitration if issues ever arise. ITS does.

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Skip Calgany in Denver, Colorado

74 months ago

I'm looking for a job and am in my late 50's. Years ago I went through a career counseling service with Bernard Haldane. What a joke. They promised me better access to the "hidden job market" and actually implied they had positions just right for me! It was a complete waste of money. Basically, a tweleve step plan for how to answer ads in the newspaper.

Believe it or not, I think their organziation is still around. I want to relocate to texas, and I currently live in Denver. Some firm, located in the same area that the old haldane was, I think they were NDVI jobs, tried to sell me the same thing. I also got a call from a firm called Rmcijobs or RMC International in Denver. The pitch was the same. I bet they were Haldane as well. I don't think I will ever buy a service like this.

But I did interact with ITS. They were professional, give me the same impression that Jennifer and John got above. If I did not have a bad experience with those old firms years ago, I might give them a try. ITS is the only firm that acutally had a service agreement that outlined exactly what they would do. It also outlined clearly that they did not guarantee me a job, but they would guarantee me their recommendations, writing, technology, access, etc. That's integrity in this field. Hope this people out!

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Rosemarie in Atlanta, Georgia

74 months ago

Skip, Jennifer & John,
I too have been contacted by ITS after posting my resume on a few of the huge job sites. I was intrigued by the glossy literature, slick "never pausing" talk and that they never promised me anything but their efforts and a database. I'm here because I can't find anything that legitimized the company! In the glossy that has "experiences of some of our clients" I saw a letter written to an ITS Rep in Atlanta (which is where I am) and happen to know the address. It is just a few miles from me. I've tried to verify it under the ITS company name and to no avail. (hint 1 that the reps come and go?!) Can you provide me with any information that would legitimize this company? Anyone else with an update? Thanks to all for your postings.

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Sceptic in Kyle, Texas

74 months ago

Notice that all the positive posts come from Denver?
This is a red flag, and tels me that these guys are scammers.

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Shannon in Denver, Colorado

74 months ago

Go to the Better Business Bureau website in Denver, where they are headquartered. You'll get qualified, impartial info there.

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Shannon in Denver, Colorado

74 months ago

Or, perhaps, they they are HQ'd here and therefore drive more business here?

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Bob Harcourt in Bloomingdale, Illinois

74 months ago

Whether or not it's worth the money depends on your situation. If you are unemployed from a job paying $100K, you are losing $8333 a month, and if ITS can get you a job in a month less than it would have taken, then you made money on the deal.

I was an ITS client 2 years ago, and working as an IS Manager in Sioux Falls, and just wanted to get out of there. My marketing director at ITS, with whom I dealt entirely by phone and email, sent out several thousand contact letters for me and I got a 20% increase in base pay (about $18K/yr, and yes, Chicago is more expensive), $7000 for relocation expenses and a $5000 signing bonus with a bank in a northern suburb.

Most of the information can be gathered elsewhere, yes, but I would have had to pay D&B several thousand dollars for access to the Harris InfoSource and Selectory databases that ITS clients get included in their service.

The process took less than 6 weeks from the time I signed the contract, so I figure I made about a 400% return on the money I paid. But I am in information services, and I can see that other fields are going to be more difficult in which to find a job.

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Buffalo66 in Mukwonago, Wisconsin

73 months ago

Franks and Beans in Anchorage, Alaska

7 days ago
"Shannon - you've been duped!"
"but for those who are thinking about forking over thousands of dollars to this scam, don't do it."

Franks and Beans in Anchorage, Alaska

7 days ago
"It's a forum for people to post their opinions. And calling someone an idiot for not understanding something? I think that's a direction this forum does not need to take."

So, Franks and Beans, it's OK for you to criticize Shannon and a service you don't know anything about (you mention no experience or credentials on your post), but it's not OK for John Davidson in Colorado to do so? C'mon, we all have a right to our say.

As for me: I have been doing career counseling since 2001, concentrating mostly on IT and service industry professionals and executives. I try to keep a pretty good eye on my competition. Most services don't provide much help, it's true. I think Bernard Haldane is out of business because they could not adjust to the modern reality of job searching.

However, I posed as a client to review ITS. When I saw what they had available, I nearly dropped. Their SAMPLE resumes were better than anything I had ever created for my clients (yes, I HAVE adjusted my style to follow their lead). Their search resources are phenomenal, better than anything I have seen in the market by several magnitudes. I wish I had them. (I tried to purchase a monthly subscription - at a hefty fee - to access them for my clients, and they will not sell it to me, saying it was for their clients only.) Their agreement is easy to understand and their guarantees are equal to and better than mine in some respects, and better than any of my competitors. Although they are a little more expensive than me, I think they UNDERcharge for the service and resources provided. And the coaching and advice they give is pretty solid. If I'm going to lose a client, I don't mind if ITS gets them. I've even sent some tough cases to them.

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taz in New York, New York

73 months ago

[

I to was in talks with ITS, but was not 100% sure of what they said was true- I am in the process of looking for a new job and wanted to ask if anyone knows other companies who provide the same service so that I can compare. Any advice is greatly appreciated

QUOTE who="TJJC in Southlake, Texas"]I am in the early stages of a job search. I had a long discussion today with a man from ITS Personal Marketing. They are a national firm that specialize in finding positions for people. They tap into the "unpublished market" and use extensive research and networking to find jobs for you that are not posted.

The cost is about $5-6K. Has anyone ever used a firm like this? I liked what he had to say and feel like it might be a viable option. He said they have a 99% success rate in placing people and that candidates usually get a minimum of 20% more in salary than they were asking for. If you take an offer you find on your own, if you dont like their service or if they dont find you something they refund the money. If I could get an increase in salary like that, it would make the $5K worth it I think.

Anyone know if these firms are the real deal... or a scam??

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Rosemarie in Atlanta, Georgia

73 months ago

taz in New York, New York said: [

I to was in talks with ITS, but was not 100% sure of what they said was true- I am in the process of looking for a new job and wanted to ask if anyone knows other companies who provide the same service so that I can compare. Any advice is greatly appreciated

QUOTE who="TJJC in Southlake, Texas"]I am in the early stages of a job search. I had a long discussion today with a man from ITS Personal Marketing. They are a national firm that specialize in finding positions for people. They tap into the "unpublished market" and use extensive research and networking to find jobs for you that are not posted.

The cost is about $5-6K. Has anyone ever used a firm like this? I liked what he had to say and feel like it might be a viable option. He said they have a 99% success rate in placing people and that candidates usually get a minimum of 20% more in salary than they were asking for. If you take an offer you find on your own, if you dont like their service or if they dont find you something they refund the money. If I could get an increase in salary like that, it would make the $5K worth it I think.

Anyone know if these firms are the real deal... or a scam??

TAZ- I'm in Atlanta and also tried to find a competing company to do a little comparison shopping and couldn't find anyone. I went to the Better Business Bureau site in Denver, hmmm. . . Tried to find ITS in the Atlanta market or southeast (they have an Atlanta address in their literature!) but found it's not active anymore hmmm. . . Even called my local "consumer reporter" hotline (Clark Howard for those who may recognize the name) and his staff gave me info (including this site) clled me back. His staff highly recommended against it saying all the recruiters they contacted indicated they didn't know a reputable company that charged their clients and the few companies that did charge don't charge $5-6K for a POSSIBLE 80-120K job. Good luck finding a new job

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Gabi in Boston, Massachusetts

73 months ago

"indicated they didn't know a reputable company that charged their clients and the few companies that did charge don't charge $5-6K for a POSSIBLE 80-120K job."

Hi! I used them and was happy to have the tools.

The above quote says it all, they DIDN'T KNOW of a company who does that. Like a previous comment said, if it's new, people will be skeptical.

If you're looking for jobs in a lower income range (< $60k), do it yourself. If you're looking in a higher income range and job level, and your career (moving ahead) is important to you AND YOU WANT A SERIOUS ADVANTAGE in that search (and have the $$) then seriously consider them. If you're looking for their Atlanta office, you might check under their parent company (or something) which I think is America's Job Network.

Their service is definitely NOT for everyone, only those who are serious about getting ahead, and who have the financial resources to put into it. I was fortunate enough to have the resources, and am glad I did.

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Barton T in Phoenix, Arizona

73 months ago

Plz see my post today, this is rampant, unchecked and people are getting fleeced every day by firms specializing in supposedly 'marketing you' for a fee upfront. One general and basic rule of thumb....in REAL recruiting- the candidate or applicant NEVER pays.

A professional recruiter will NEVER charge a candidate ANYTHING and is ALWAYS paid by their RETAINED or CONTINGENT client.

If it does not meet this basic test, do not proceed. There are 1000s of legitimate industry specific recruiting firms who make a good living placing good candidates on contingent or retained searches.

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taz

73 months ago

Much thanks for your reply- is there a place to find these real recruiters- Also has anyone heard of the Barrett Group out of Rhode Island.

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Rosemarie in Atlanta, Georgia

73 months ago

Taz - lots of ways to find recruiters - one way I found is to look at the big job sites (monster/careerbuilders/local paper/etc) and find the kind of job you're looking for. I found that over half the postings were by recruiters - not the actual company with the job. Go to the recruiter's website - see what it has to say, job postings, etc. Do this with several/lots till you find ones that have job postings in the area you are looking and then contact those recruiters. A lot of the jobsites do some of this work for you when you "search" for a job.

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Buffalo66 in Mukwonago, Wisconsin

73 months ago

Recruiters can be sources to find a job, although Gabi in Boston is correct when she mentions their value has diminished in recent years. Don’t believe me? Look how many recruiting firms hire people to cold-call companies trying to find someone to hire THEM.

I recommend that my clients create a network of recruiters, as part of a portfolio of search strategies, & that they stay in contact throughout their search. Many of the recruiters I know appreciate the help I provide my clients because they tend to be better candidates and easier to place.

As good as recruiters can be, here’s the rub: Retained or contingent recruiters get paid by -and are loyal to- the client company. So, they don’t really care which of the 4-5 candidates they present for a position actually gets it, as long as one of them does. They will be paid regardless. Ask any former recruiter you know.(BTW, there is nothing wrong with this business model). Many recruiters are very responsive to job-seekers in the beginning, before presented to their client, or if they feel they have a good chance to place her & claim a fee. If the company rejects a candidate for any reason, the recruiter no longer has much interest in the candidate. That’s when you get “we decided to go in a different direction: don't call us, we'll call you." If that happens to you, don’t feel bad. It’s not personal, it’s just business.

So when Barton in Arizona says “A professional recruiter will NEVER charge a candidate ANYTHING and is ALWAYS paid by their RETAINED or CONTINGENT client”, he is generally correct. In contrast to his ABSOLUTISM, I know of several firms that both recruit and provide executive placement services. However, I have yet to meet a recruiter who will take your resume and place it with people with whom they do NOT have a retainer or commission agreement, which is one of the services ITS provides.

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lauren.giglio@yahoo.com in Huntersville, North Carolina

72 months ago

I've all of the comments about ITS ... some which seem to be good and others not so good. ITS is not a recruiting firm but a personal service company for candidates. Some seem to have some problems with the quality of ITS's deliverable products and other just the fact that they charge for their services which ususally companies pay recruting fees. My biggest concern is having to pay the total fees up front without seeing what you get and knowing that the product quality it tops for what you are paying high service charges. To me, also costs are high, especially since I have been out of work for a long time and I have a age problem. Anyone, have any comments on those issues. Thanks

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Sienna in Denver, Colorado

72 months ago

I had some thoughts for anyone buying any service whether its a lawyer, accountant, healthcare provider, management consultant, or even ITS personal marketing services.

I have reviewed the ITS materials and costs are covered detail. This is good. The ITS recommendation is that you should have the affordability for their services, and not stretch for it. On advance fees, I believe that ITS is the only firm in this field that gives you a guarantee which allows you to meet the staff, review the recommendations, evaluate the written materials, and evaluate their technology ...before making a final buying decision.

You can get your money back any time prior to your final presentation, and this evaluation period can take as long as 3 weeks. I have never seen any other type of service firm or consultant, in any industry, do this. Seems fair to me.

They also review that age is a liability that may not be overcome for everyone. Many employers still have this bias, and ITS obviously does not control the job market. I like the fact that they are straightforward on these issues.

But in my mind, all of the above are not the most important factors. You should not buy any service, in any field because of guarantees. You should only buy it, because its right for you, and you believe it will work for you.If you are going to make the investment, does it make sense in light of other alternatives you are considering.

And most important, do you have the energy to commit to the program. Many types of services, such as ITS, clearly state that you have to follow their recommendations and use their resources. If you are willing do to this, they are probably a good bet, if not, you should search for other alternatives that might work for you.

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Sleuth in Phoenix, Arizona

72 months ago

Can ITS get anymore of it's employees to post more positive responses here?

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RogerAlls34 in St. Charles, Illinois

72 months ago

I'd highly suggest arbitration, especially if you have some good notes, email trail, etc. validating your lack of service, failure on their part to deliver effective results, etc. Arbitrators typically show more empathy to the screwed consumer than the big company doing the screwing

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Scott in Pensacola, Florida

71 months ago

I have been contacted by an ITS agent this morning...Giving basically the same promises and services to secure a 100+ within a certian time frame using their system. We have not discussed the payment option or price yet, I am sure this will be in context of tomorrows discussion. Buy or buyer beware?!! Any advice would be greatly appreciated before I "accept" their services...

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PArv in Glendale, Arizona

71 months ago

RUN!!!!! Simple enough for you? If you don't. Please don't come back and post your sob story in 4 months. thanks

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Bosco in Orlando, Florida

71 months ago

Yes, run far away!!! If not, you're going to spend THOUSANDS of dollars so someone can dress up your resume and flood the market with it. They may get 1% of people a job and the other 99% are screwed.

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Anonymous

71 months ago

I'm on the service / delivery side of ITS, and I can tell you that what we do is absolutely NOT a scam. Yes, we write 3-4 resumes, 12 marketing letters, and then have databases & datastreams that give our clients tools their competition simply don't have, thereby giving our clients an enourmous edge.

Three different sets of guarantees, all in writing and explained verbally in exhaustive detail, assure that our clients are protected.

Do things go awry on occasion? You bet, just like in any business. Our focus is to make things right as quickly and completely as humanly possible.

When my clients are coachable, take suggestions, and really work the tools we give them, they get jobs, almost always within the 90 day performance guarantee window. It's the clients that sit back, wait for the phone to ring, and don't follow up that end up unhappy that a job didn't just fall into their laps.

Job hunting is very much a numbers game, with a very low response rate. You can send your resume out thru Monster, CareerBuilder, etc. and get, what, MAYBE 100 out? Or, we can write different resumes that take advantage of key words, brevity and psychology, and then get them out to thousands of recruiters, 500+ employers, your personal contacts, your alumni FOR you.

Do you subscribe to all of the news wire services? We do, and set agents for you. This way, not only can you keep abreast of the business climate wherever it is you are looking for work, BUT ALSO look for leads to emerging jobs. Find out that a company is opening a new location near you? Send the special resume we designed JUST for that purpose to the person quoted in the article with a quick note (that we'll help you craft). And, do it before the story ever hits the newspapers!

We're the only marketing firm in our space who does everything we do. We really have no competitors, but we do have LOTS of detractors; "competitors" who wish we didn't exist, etc.

I'll answer any questions.

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Paul R in Glendale, Arizona

71 months ago

Great explanation, from a ITS employee. If ITS were and is so successful, why charge the CANDIDATE a fee? And, why upfront? Legitimate recruiters have worked on a retained and or contingent basis for years. Why? Because IF there is a job with demand, there are qualified candidates to place in it. This entire model in the candidates favor.

It's been only in recent years that firms like ITS have sprouted up like wildfire reversing the tables and ensuring the the "marketing" firm gets paid, the candidate maybe get's his or her job and a company or employer maybe finds a solid addition to their business.
I see a day in the not too far future when the outright unfairness of this type of approach will result in either incredible regulation or outright failure of this particular model.

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Scott in Pensacola, Florida

71 months ago

Any rebuttle from the ITS agent?.....I have to admit the money is a bit stiff for a "marketing" agency to be paid up front with no guarantee provided except some writting skills, maybe a little inside knowledge, and a database. But like the previous person had stated, there are thousands of recruiters that perform very similar services for free or charge the corporation. Why does it cost $5-7,000 upfront?

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The difference in Otley, Iowa

71 months ago

What ITS does is different than what a recruiter does.

A recruiter typically is working for a company, whether they are internally, obviously, or an agency. That recruiter, therefore gets paid by the company to provide a service to that company.

ITS is working for the candidate, therefore they charge the candidate. From what I understand, ITS is not developing a relationship with any company, so why would they charge that company the candidate ends up at? They are not, or should not be, claiming to be recruiters.

Now I am not an ITS employee, nor am I advocating its service. A service like this could be very beneficial to some, and not so successful for others. Because it didn't work for one person DOESN'T mean it won't work for others and vice versa. Personally I would think this approach would be more successful for an executive level person, but not so much for an entry to mid level person

Do your research and make an informed choice.

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Recruiter#1 in Glendale, Arizona

71 months ago

As a Recruiter, I will offer this opinion. ITS and companies like them claim they work for the client. It's unfortunately a very fruhstrating way to go about a career search. Aiming at many targets with a broad brush approach vs. aiming at a specific target and a much more predictable outcome.

Downside to working with a retained or contingent recruiter is pretty clear as well. If you're not 'on target' or the near perfect candidate for the job or jobs they're working at that time, you're not going to get much help. Recruiters spend their time with people who get them paid and typically won't spend time trying fit a round peg in a square hole.

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Bosco in Orlando, Florida

71 months ago

The difference in Otley, Iowa said: What ITS does is different than what a recruiter does.

A recruiter typically is working for a company, whether they are internally, obviously, or an agency. That recruiter, therefore gets paid by the company to provide a service to that company.

ITS is working for the candidate, therefore they charge the candidate. From what I understand, ITS is not developing a relationship with any company, so why would they charge that company the candidate ends up at? They are not, or should not be, claiming to be recruiters.

Now I am not an ITS employee, nor am I advocating its service. A service like this could be very beneficial to some, and not so successful for others. Because it didn't work for one person DOESN'T mean it won't work for others and vice versa. Personally I would think this approach would be more successful for an executive level person, but not so much for an entry to mid level person

Do your research and make an informed choice.

You LIE!! You obviously work for ITS. Nice try spy . . .

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Bosco in Orlando, Florida

71 months ago

Anonymous said: I'm on the service / delivery side of ITS, and I can tell you that what we do is absolutely NOT a scam. Yes, we write 3-4 resumes, 12 marketing letters, and then have databases & datastreams that give our clients tools their competition simply don't have, thereby giving our clients an enourmous edge.

Do things go awry on occasion? You bet, just like in any business. Our focus is to make things right as quickly and completely as humanly possible.

When my clients are coachable, take suggestions, and really work the tools we give them, they get jobs, almost always within the 90 day performance guarantee window. It's the clients that sit back, wait for the phone to ring, and don't follow up that end up unhappy that a job didn't just fall into their laps.

Job hunting is very much a numbers game, with a very low response rate. You can send your resume out thru Monster, CareerBuilder, etc. and get, what, MAYBE 100 out? Or, we can write different resumes that take advantage of key words, brevity and psychology, and then get them out to thousands of recruiters, 500+ employers, your personal contacts, your alumni FOR you.

Do you subscribe to all of the news wire services? We do, and set agents for you. This way, not only can you keep abreast of the business climate wherever it is you are looking for work, BUT ALSO look for leads to emerging jobs. Find out that a company is opening a new location near you? Send the special resume we designed JUST for that purpose to the person quoted in the article with a quick note (that we'll help you craft). And, do it before the story ever hits the newspapers!

Yeah right, like you've ever sent a personal note regarding something you read on a news wire to get someone the 'inside track' job. You know that you are just a Boiler Room operation looking to make a quick buck. You even admit that things go "awry" on occasion. What's your definition of 'on occasion?' Once or twice per day I'm sure.

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The difference in Otley, Iowa

71 months ago

Hiya Boscoe,

I don't work for ITS. You used to know me as HIPfan.

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Bosco in Orlando, Florida

71 months ago

The difference in Otley, Iowa said: Hiya Boscoe,

I don't work for ITS. You used to know me as HIPfan.

Ah ha - My bad, I know you. You're not a spy. Sorry . . .

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The difference in Otley, Iowa

71 months ago

You'll be glad to know that "Curly" never bothered to try to stick my head in a lake. I'd have wished him/her luck in trying though.

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Bosco in Orlando, Florida

71 months ago

The difference in Otley, Iowa said: You'll be glad to know that "Curly" never bothered to try to stick my head in a lake. I'd have wished him/her luck in trying though.

LOL - yeah that was a strange thread. I wonder who Curly really was. Not to get off topic here, but have you heard anything else about Hyrian?

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The difference in Otley, Iowa

71 months ago

They are pretty much down to on/offDemand here in Mpls from what I understand. I'm meeting a few of them that are left this weekend so I suppose I'll learn more then.

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Anonymous

71 months ago

Bosco et al ~

Firstly, I'm not sure where your hostility is coming from. Did you, personally, have a bad experience with ITS? If so, tell me with whom you worked and I'll find out what went wrong.

Secondly, people keep trying to equate us with recruiters. We are NOT a recruiting firm. We do have a bunch of websites where people come, fill out profiles, and submit their resumes. We then have thousands of subscribers to those same websites who ARE recruiters and Fortune 1000 companies. They come and look through what's been posted, and contact those people in whom they have an interest.

Since what we do is a relatively new (and RAPIDLY growing)industry, it's hard for people to get their minds around it, so, naturally, they're suspicious. Ever heard of Corporate Outplacement services? Where, when a company lays off people, they hire an outplacement service to help their executives transition into new situations? We're like that, on steroids. We actually have a division that does that, as well.

Biggest difference being that instead of a company hiring us for their employees, the individual hires us.

Boiler room? Hardly. Do I write like someone who would want / need to work in a boiler room? My colleagues come from all walks of life; doctors, lawyers, car salesmen, PhDs, journalists, HR, we even have a rocket scientist! We've all reached a stage in our lives where we want to help people, but still make money doing it.

Our offices (two floors of a high rise in the Denver Tech Center) are quite nice. Pool and ping-pong tables, and a big screen TV in the lunchroom. Definitely nice, professional surrounds for professional employees.

Our services definitely aren't for everyone, but if an individual is looking to get a substantial "edge" in their job hunt, and they have some extra cash, they might consider it. www.itspersonalmarketing.com .

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Just another number in Chicagoland, Indiana

71 months ago

Ok Anonymous... try this: If ITS has a good business model and a high success rate then it should not have to charge clients up front.

In fact, charging fees up front shows a distinct lack of marketing awareness since many if not most of the people who need your services can ill afford to give you their Food Money.

If your service is as good and effective as you say, then you should be able to get both higher volume and better margin by working on a percentage based Contingency Fee like an attorney.

The better the job you get your client, the more you get paid. That kind of contract is not hard to write - just use a standard Attorney/Client Contingency Agreement.

If and when a "client based" job placement/personal marketing firm starts using that business model, then AND ONLY THEN will I trust that you actually have the job hunter's interests at heart and are not just looking to make a buck off of desperate people.

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Anonymous

71 months ago

I understand the sentiment, believe me. Please remember, though, that not all of our clients are unemployed. Lots of people use us to advance their careers. They're not desperate people, just smart ones who know a good thing when they see it. In fact, while I don't know what the overall company stats are, only 14% of my personal clients are unemployed. The other 76% are employed and wanting different situations in one form or another.

We walk every potential client through EXACTLY what we do and what we offer them so that they can make an educated, informed decision. Is the presentation effective? Sure, we're a marketing firm, it's what we do. But what they see from the sales side (before they've signed on) is absolutely nothing compared to what they get as a client.

Once I have presented my clients with the creative materials (resumes, marketing letters, etc.) I've written for them I then take them on a tour of our 'JMAC' system, teaching them the ins and outs, how to use it and in what situations, etc. I have yet to have a client tell me that they were underwhelmed; typically I'm told how impressed they are with the system, and how excited they are to get started!

Two issues, though.
#1. We are a marketing firm. Don't know if you've ever worked with marketing firms or ad agencies on a corporate level, but if you asked a marketing firm to, say, not get paid until the client's product gets sold, they'd laugh you out of the room.

#2. We need to be paid up front because we have huge expenses up front. Over $500K in databases and datastreams subscriptions. $30 - $40M in web technology.

(Running out of room, to be continued...)

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Anonymous

71 months ago

#3. We can only do so much; the marketing strategy, positioning, the writing, the coaching, research on positions, offering them the tools, doing the distributions, etc. The client has to have some skin in the game, too. They can not just sit back and wait for the phone to ring. They have to take advantage of the research, the tools, the databases, get out there and and establish the connections.

While the client does need to pay up front, do remember that they have the right to a full money-back guarantee if, upon presentation of the materials, they don't think that it's the best thing they've ever seen.

Internally, we (the marketing directors who work daily with the clients) are offered financial incentives to be sure our clients find work, so it definitely behooves us to make sure we're doing all we can to make that happen.

Referrals are an important part of our business too; we wouldn't get them if we weren't producing happy clients.

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Anonymous in Littleton, Colorado

71 months ago

Bosco ~ there you go again with that hostility thing...

Yes, actually, I do envision people doing that. Plus, I envision people to be a lot more intelligent than you are giving them credit for being. They can make decisions for themselves. No one is forcing their hands. They know what they're purchasing up front, and we deliver.

We are filling a niche, not 'preying' on hapless victims. No more than a BMW dealership 'preys' on its customers, a plastic surgeon 'preys' on his/her patients, or a high-end clothing store 'preys' on its clientele. Does anyone NEED a BMW? No. Do they NEED bigger breasts? No. Do they NEED designer clothing? No. They WANT it.

The same can be said for our clients. They WANT to have the advantages we offer in a job search: Better written and performing resumes and letters. More published job openings that are easier to access. More research available to get unpublished leads. Someone to send out thousands of their (professionally written) resumes and letters to employers, recruiters, their alumni and personal contacts.

Our clients simply want those competitive advantages, and those that can afford it sign on.

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Just another number in Chicagoland, Indiana

70 months ago

And yet, anon ITS, while recognising the sentiment, you failed to explain why you DON'T work on contingency...

In the past 10 years I've avraged less than 20K/yr... with a degree and a disabled spouse.

Please explain to me why you think I can/should be able to afford your services.

If you guys are that good, then you should be able and willing to contract on contingency.

However, your last line speaks volumes: "those that can afford it sign on."

I.e. your organization is interested in the income, not the outcome.

Indeed is trying to be an OUTCOME based website. Most of the people here looking for work are NOT able to "afford it". They/we are here either because the "system" doesn't work for us (I'm a 40y/o White Male with Aspergers, I should know) or we are here to HELP others - free of charge - to the OUTCOME they are looking for.

That is why we are death on MLM scammers and anyone else trying to Sell a Dream to the desperate.

I don't give a shopkeeper the money until he hands me the snickers bar. Why should anyone pay you anything until you produce?

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