Some things I've noticed about the American job market across it's industries, why people aren't getting hired..

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Orillion in Lincolnton, North Carolina

32 months ago

1. People think degrees and certifications are more than just single prerequisites

2. People choose to ignore the realities oh HR filtering. Your credit-score, appearance, speech craft, resume or CV layout, work history, social network, persistence, and comprehension are all actively being used as metrics in recruitment/hiring even for entry-level positions in low-level industries like construction

3. People don't network and use things like agencies, employment commissions, college training&placement

4. People believe work history is more than just a prerequisite. People with none are social networking in on jobs you apply for while you sit back and wait to be handed things. Did you fellow graduate get a job while you're still unemployed? They didn't do it by just applying..

You can't get jobs just by applying anymore, you have to know and/or persuade people inside. Even if you're applying at a dollar store, gas station, or restaurant..

Feel free to argue with me while people with jobs are all doing this..

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jobseeker in Bethesda, Maryland

32 months ago

What is this thing about "networking" that everyone is into like a herd of wilder-beast running from the lions?

I personally detest and despise networking. I have nothing against those who engage in it, but it simply isn't my thing. What is it anyway that you call a networking?
Starting a conversation with total stranger, measure his/her usefulness for your purposes (position in social hierarchy.hiring chain) and then start shamelessly kissing\
their rear end, no matter how awkward it is? Praise their intelligence even if there are total morons? Continue stupidest conversation you may ever have engaged in, just because you must kiss that rear end to get a job?
What America has come to?
If "networking" is your thing you should go to some third world country, it has been their thing forever and that's how people always made living in those countries (not because of the merit but depending on how well you were in kissing that a**hole that was one step above you in the ladder).

I just don't get it! How could thIs be a way to earn a job in America?
Not your skills, not your talents, not your intelligence, not your potential, not your abilities but how well you are in kissing it up....

I am one currently unemployed person who , as a matter of principle, will kiss no damn a-hole to get a job!

I have skill, I have abilities and I can do many thing a lot better than most in positions I apply for and it should be enough to at least consider my candidacy.
You want me kiss that ***? I better stay unemployed then!

What a disgrace....

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Bluetea in Texas

32 months ago

Orillion in Lincolnton, North Carolina said: 1. People think degrees and certifications are more than just single prerequisites

2. People choose to ignore the realities oh HR filtering. Your credit-score, appearance, speech craft, resume or CV layout, work history, social network, persistence, and comprehension are all actively being used as metrics in recruitment/hiring even for entry-level positions in low-level industries like construction

3. People don't network and use things like agencies, employment commissions, college training&placement

4. People believe work history is more than just a prerequisite. People with none are social networking in on jobs you apply for while you sit back and wait to be handed things. Did you fellow graduate get a job while you're still unemployed? They didn't do it by just applying..

You can't get jobs just by applying anymore, you have to know and/or persuade people inside. Even if you're applying at a dollar store, gas station, or restaurant..

Feel free to argue with me while people with jobs are all doing this..

Who you know is where you go? No argument from me.

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Orillion in Lincolnton, North Carolina

32 months ago

jobseeker in Bethesda, Maryland said: What is this thing about "networking" that everyone is into like a herd of wilder-beast running from the lions?

I personally detest and despise networking. I have nothing against those who engage in it, but it simply isn't my thing. What is it anyway that you call a networking?
Starting a conversation with total stranger, measure his/her usefulness for your purposes (position in social hierarchy.hiring chain) and then start shamelessly kissing\
their rear end, no matter how awkward it is? Praise their intelligence even if there are total morons? Continue stupidest conversation you may ever have engaged in, just because you must kiss that rear end to get a job?
What America has come to?
If "networking" is your thing you should go to some third world country, it has been their thing forever and that's how people always made living in those countries (not because of the merit but depending on how well you were in kissing that a**hole that was one step above you in the ladder).

I just don't get it! How could thIs be a way to earn a job in America?
Not your skills, not your talents, not your intelligence, not your potential, not your abilities but how well you are in kissing it up....

I am one currently unemployed person who , as a matter of principle, will kiss no damn a-hole to get a job!

I have skill, I have abilities and I can do many thing a lot better than most in positions I apply for and it should be enough to at least consider my candidacy.
You want me kiss that ***? I better stay unemployed then!

What a disgrace....

I don't like it either, but I had the option to be self-employed.. It's no different from the logic behind doing credit checks for a job in construction or a plant, or wanting work experience for "entry-level"..

You either conform or don't make a living. If you don't look or sound a certain way you might not even have that option it seems..

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Riot in Massachusetts

32 months ago

I don't think that I have the same definition of networking as other people. I just try to be friendly to everyone I meet, especially if they're in my field. Maybe someday it will pay off big. It already pays off small, as I know a ton of people I can email to ask questions if my research requires knowledge from other subfields.

I've been a TA a year now and have had a few undergraduate seniors as assistants. I took the time to get to know them, go out for drinks once in a while, etc. One of them called me a few days ago for some advice on a big life decision and I chatted with him for 30 minutes or so, even though I was busy. I bet that if I wanted an introduction at his company, I he would do it for me.

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Riot in Massachusetts

32 months ago

Terrible typing tonight. "I he" = just "he."

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Almost Suicidal in San Antonio, Texas

32 months ago

Riot in Massachusetts said: I don't think that I have the same definition of networking as other people. I just try to be friendly to everyone I meet, especially if they're in my field. Maybe someday it will pay off big. It already pays off small, as I know a ton of people I can email to ask questions if my research requires knowledge from other subfields.

I've been a TA a year now and have had a few undergraduate seniors as assistants. I took the time to get to know them, go out for drinks once in a while, etc. One of them called me a few days ago for some advice on a big life decision and I chatted with him for 30 minutes or so, even though I was busy. I bet that if I wanted an introduction at his company, I he would do it for me.

And you become friends on FB and yeah, you're networking!

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Elizabeth in North Chicago, Illinois

32 months ago

jobseeker in Bethesda, Maryland said: I personally detest and despise networking. I have nothing against those who engage in it, but it simply isn't my thing.

I hear you. I'm in the same boat as you as far as networking goes.

jobseeker in Bethesda, Maryland said: What is it anyway that you call a networking?
Starting a conversation with total stranger, measure his/her usefulness for your purposes (position in social hierarchy.hiring chain) and then start shamelessly kissing\
their rear end, no matter how awkward it is? Praise their intelligence even if there are total morons? Continue stupidest conversation you may ever have engaged in, just because you must kiss that rear end to get a job?

Networking means you know someone who knows someone more or less. That person can help you get a job through who they know. It's also about building relationships and getting to know people. You're networking when you strike up a conversation with the person next to you in line, introduce yourself to other parents at your child’s school, meet a friend of a friend, catch up with a former co-worker, or stop to chat with your neighbor. Everyone you meet can help you move your job search forward.

It's my understanding that the vast majority of jobs are never advertised and filled by word of mouth these days so that's why it's important, as some people believe it is, to network.

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Elizabeth in North Chicago, Illinois

32 months ago

Almost Suicidal in San Antonio, Texas said: And you become friends on FB and yeah, you're networking!

Not only friending people on FB, but places like LinkedIn.

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Bluetea in Texas

32 months ago

Elizabeth in North Chicago, Illinois said: Not only friending people on FB, but places like LinkedIn.

Ssssh! Don't get started with LinkedIn. It drives Joe crazy.

Have you ever read more bullsh*t than on LinkedIn? Oyeeee!

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Riot in Massachusetts

32 months ago

Almost Suicidal in San Antonio, Texas said: And you become friends on FB and yeah, you're networking!

Oh, well maybe I'm networking. I certainly don't set out to do so on purpose.

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Almost Suicidal in San Antonio, Texas

32 months ago

I wouldn't mind handling the account for my employer, but I hate managing my LI account, yet I do it!

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Almost Suicidal in San Antonio, Texas

32 months ago

I have one friend. Well actually I have six or seven friends. One of which, got a job via LI. The employer came looking for her. Specialized insurance. The keywords were there.

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Calfornian in Hayward, California

32 months ago

Almost Suicidal in San Antonio, Texas said: I have one friend. Well actually I have six or seven friends. One of which, got a job via LI. The employer came looking for her. Specialized insurance. The keywords were there.

It happens. I've been contacted via LI. Unfortunately, never for stuff in the same state or stuff I want to do ever again.

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Joe Gagill in Poughkeepsie, New York

32 months ago

Recruiters do use Linkedln. I've seen them post. But at this point I'm just too tired to spend all day on Linkedln trying to connect with the right one.

I think CL will be my savior in the future OR a company in the industry that I was last in will be looking for a Salesman in my area and it will be an easy interview since I know the biz.

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Lostmyhope in Virginia

32 months ago

Elizabeth in North Chicago, Illinois said: Not only friending people on FB, but places like LinkedIn.

you sound like someone else here. have you met beth??????? maybe you two could connect on fb and linkedin.

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Jobseeker in Lafayette, California

32 months ago

I have yet to see benefits from networking either. When raising the issue of job hunting while in casual conversation, folks suddenly treat me as though I'm "panhandling for a job" and politely end the conversation by basically stating that they don't know of any openings either. Or that where they work, they're "cutting back". Or they try sounding sympathetic by saying "Ya, it's rough out there.". If going after a volunteer position, the place you're volunteering at, basically tells you "don't do that here". I figure they don't want a rush of folks "panhandling for a job" in their organization.

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Jeff in Silver Spring, Maryland

32 months ago

Jobseeker in Lafayette, California said: I have yet to see benefits from networking either. When raising the issue of job hunting while in casual conversation, folks suddenly treat me as though I'm "panhandling for a job" and politely end the conversation by basically stating that they don't know of any openings either. Or that where they work, they're "cutting back". Or they try sounding sympathetic by saying "Ya, it's rough out there.". If going after a volunteer position, the place you're volunteering at, basically tells you "don't do that here". I figure they don't want a rush of folks "panhandling for a job" in their organization.

The problem with networking is that it's most easily accomplished when you have a job. It's difficult to build a network when you're unemployed because you don't have any insider information to offer in return.

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Joe Gagill in Poughkeepsie, New York

32 months ago

Jeff in Silver Spring, Maryland said: The problem with networking is that it's most easily accomplished when you have a job. It's difficult to build a network when you're unemployed because you don't have any insider information to offer in return.

Most people who find a job via successful networking take a big big pay cut too. They find a job relatively quick but usually take a 50 percent cut in pay. I knew alot of IBMers back in the day.

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Jeff in Silver Spring, Maryland

32 months ago

jobseeker in Bethesda, Maryland said: I just don't get it! How could thIs be a way to earn a job in America?
Not your skills, not your talents, not your intelligence, not your potential, not your abilities but how well you are in kissing it up....

I am one currently unemployed person who , as a matter of principle, will kiss no damn a-hole to get a job!

I have skill, I have abilities and I can do many thing a lot better than most in positions I apply for and it should be enough to at least consider my candidacy.
You want me kiss that ***? I better stay unemployed then!

What a disgrace....

Welcome to the real world. In my next life, I definitely want to be an organizational psychologist.

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Jobseeker in Lafayette, California

32 months ago

Jeff in Silver Spring, Maryland said: The problem with networking is that it's most easily accomplished when you have a job. It's difficult to build a network when you're unemployed because you don't have any insider information to offer in return.

Sometimes even THEN, it's not accomplishable. Especially if they want to keep you. They could discreetly twart your attempts.

As to finding out about a company before you aim for them, that's almost impossible to find out the TRUE "nitty gritty", unless you either know someone who works for them (and who knows EVERY PERSON IN EVERY COMPANY?) or be a fly on the wall in their lunchroom during break times. :-/ And that can't happen for the average person.

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Bluetea in Texas

32 months ago

Jeff in Silver Spring, Maryland said: The problem with networking is that it's most easily accomplished when you have a job. It's difficult to build a network when you're unemployed because you don't have any insider information to offer in return.

Most of the books say that the biggest mistake you can make is to be unemployed before you start networking. That makes you nothing but a pain in the a$$.

You are suppose to be networking all the time now.

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Almost Suicidal in San Antonio, Texas

32 months ago

I have some great reputable employers, but I'm also working part time and for free. Never a shortage of those jobs.

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Jobseeker in Lafayette, California

32 months ago

That's just it. Places are finding out that they can get their work done by volunteers instead of paid staff, so they're aiming in that direction. But you can't pay rent on a volunteer's salary. ;-)

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Bluetea in Texas

32 months ago

Almost Suicidal in San Antonio, Texas said: I have some great reputable employers, but I'm also working part time and for free. Never a shortage of those jobs.

And the only qualifications seem to be that you have some free time and pay for your own gas.

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Calfornian in Hayward, California

32 months ago

He's not really talking about networking. He's talking about being a part of a cult, in a sense. In tech, especially in the Bay Area, it's just a completely different world, almost a different class of people. If you can get in, you are in. That's much harder to do after a certain age but it is doable.

This is kind of hard to explain, and I resist it too, but it is how it works. There is a whole subculture in tech built around sites like linkedin, github, reddit and more which is where everything really happens. This cult is oriented towards a certain type of person who typically thinks a certain way and often acts a certain way.

I think it also contributes to their absolutely terrible hiring methods.

I'm doing a bad job of this but you are either in it or out of it and it's going to be really hard to get in it from resume submissions via the website.

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findjob in North Carolina

32 months ago

Jobseeker in Lafayette, California said: I have yet to see benefits from networking either. When raising the issue of job hunting while in casual conversation, folks suddenly treat me as though I'm "panhandling for a job" and politely end the conversation by basically stating that they don't know of any openings either. Or that where they work, they're "cutting back". Or they try sounding sympathetic by saying "Ya, it's rough out there.". If going after a volunteer position, the place you're volunteering at, basically tells you "don't do that here". I figure they don't want a rush of folks "panhandling for a job" in their organization.

I have been trying to network. But most of the people I network with are often looking for new employment for themselves. I have told my friends, church members, and former co-workers that I am looking for a job. You have to be careful when you network because you don't want to be known as a pest or a beggar.

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Jeff in Silver Spring, Maryland

32 months ago

Calfornian in Hayward, California said: He's not really talking about networking. He's talking about being a part of a cult, in a sense. In tech, especially in the Bay Area, it's just a completely different world, almost a different class of people. If you can get in, you are in. That's much harder to do after a certain age but it is doable.

This is kind of hard to explain, and I resist it too, but it is how it works. There is a whole subculture in tech built around sites like linkedin, github, reddit and more which is where everything really happens. This cult is oriented towards a certain type of person who typically thinks a certain way and often acts a certain way.

I think it also contributes to their absolutely terrible hiring methods.

I'm doing a bad job of this but you are either in it or out of it and it's going to be really hard to get in it from resume submissions via the website.

Hmmm. That's a take that hadn't occurred to me. For many people in IT, it's not just a job but a way of life. Not many doctors spend their free time diagnosing patients but a lot of IT people spend their free time playing with computers. If you haven't used the "right" technologies, you're like someone who just immigrated from somewhere else. You don't speak the language, or at least don't speak it properly. Your religion is different.

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Unix Brat in Asheville, North Carolina

32 months ago

Jeff in Silver Spring, Maryland said: For many people in IT, it's not just a job but a way of life. Not many doctors spend their free time diagnosing patients but a lot of IT people spend their free time playing with computers.

This post and Californian's statement about the tech subculture speak volumes.

Not only in the context of networking in the tech world, but also describes their whole game.

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jobseeker in Bethesda, Maryland

32 months ago

Elizabeth in North Chicago, Illinois said: I hear you. I'm in the same boat ..

Thanks for sharing your point of view.

I see few things that concern me.

#1. There is a discrepancy between:

A) Allegedly "highly advanced" ,sophisticated algorithm based software being employed (to weed out resumes) , with multiple interviews and highly competitive selections and what not, all designed under the pretext of "hiring the best fitting candidate"

B) Anecdotal, Reported tales (by members here and elsewhere) that all those resumes go directly to trash been , only if you know the employer (or know someone who knows employer) who then discards any number of resumes in favor of yours, regardless of how well you stand up to other candidates.

So, which one is it, A or B? If allegation B is true doesn't it mean that the A is a mere charade to justify weeding out just about anyone in favor of selecting someone privately? Why then even put up job ads? And, most importantly, what does it say about entire hiring process?

I guess if I was very well "networked" I wouldn't mind this state of affairs, but since I am not too good at networking I have reasons to be concerned about such hiring practices. Will I ever be able get a job if this is how people get hired?

Some will say "Go ahead, do what everyone else does, network!"

But it's easier said than done. Aside from having to compulsively please every stranger on the block who "may have a job for me", aside from likability factor, there is also something very personal, the innate psychological characteristic such as Extroversion and Introversion. I am the latter and we don't do as well as former when presenting ourselves in casual chats and encounters, but often we are capable of doing just as well (if not better) quality of work, when it comes to large number of tasks requiring attention, focus, intelligence, diligence and etc. Why should we be @ disadvantage when looking for a job?

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John in Catonsville, Maryland

32 months ago

I do not network well either. To me, the point of networking is building working relationships with people one is currently employed with. That would then expand to their friends and acquaintances.

I have never received a response from a taleo application other than "thanks for applying". I have heard more anecdotal stories of people getting jobs through knowing people than by taleo applications. The occasional company (typically smaller) that does not use application software have responded to me in the past.

I do not necessarily see how using A excludes B, or visa versa.

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Bluetea in Texas

32 months ago

jobseeker in Bethesda, Maryland said: Thanks for sharing your point of view.

I see few things that concern me.

#1. There is a discrepancy between:

A) Allegedly "highly advanced" ,sophisticated algorithm based software being employed (to weed out resumes) , with multiple interviews and highly competitive selections and what not, all designed under the pretext of "hiring the best fitting candidate"

B) Anecdotal, Reported tales (by members here and elsewhere) that all those resumes go directly to trash been , only if you know the employer (or know someone who knows employer) who then discards any number of resumes in favor of yours, regardless of how well you stand up to other candidates.

So, which one is it, A or B? If allegation B is true doesn't it mean that the A is a mere charade to justify weeding out just about anyone in favor of selecting someone privately? Why then even put up job ads? And, most importantly, what does it say about entire hiring process?

I guess if I was very well "networked" I wouldn't mind this state of affairs, but since I am not too good at networking I have reasons to be concerned about such hiring practices. Will I ever be able get a job if this is how people get hired?

Some will say "Go ahead, do what everyone else does, network!"

I am the latter and we don't do as well as former when presenting ourselves in casual chats and encounters, but often we are capable of doing just as well (if not better) quality of work, when it comes to large number of tasks requiring attention, focus, intelligence, diligence and etc. Why should we be @ disadvantage when looking for a job?

Most experts say and I agree that networking is the BEST way to find your job. Why do you think they say that?

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Bluetea in Texas

32 months ago

John in Catonsville, Maryland said: I do not network well either. To me, the point of networking is building working relationships with people one is currently employed with. That would then expand to their friends and acquaintances.

I have never received a response from a taleo application other than "thanks for applying". I have heard more anecdotal stories of people getting jobs through knowing people than by taleo applications. The occasional company (typically smaller) that does not use application software have responded to me in the past.

I do not necessarily see how using A excludes B, or visa versa.

Same here.

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jobseeker in Bethesda, Maryland

32 months ago

John in Catonsville, Maryland said:

I do not necessarily see how using A excludes B, or visa versa.

Well, B in essence defeats the purpose of A.
A is utilized to supposedly use an objective criteria to match the best possible worker for position (not based on networking capabilities , but based on some "industry standards", "experience", "qualifications", multiple interviews and what not).
But then those who allege B to be more effective strategy than A in effect implying that A is complete charade (how else it could be if it is alleged that in "real life" all resumes received via A are destined to trash bin if there is someone who is found via route B, with no regard to qualities listed per A parameters?).

Thus one excludes another or, to put it more accurately,B invalidates genuineness of the parameters set for A.

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John in Catonsville, Maryland

32 months ago

Well, if only A were used, how would you explain the people who are vastly inept (we have all had to deal with the on the job as well as when calling a help line for example) get and maintain employment?

And with so many people never hearing a word back (except for thanks for applying) from taleo apps? Granted, there are still many people looking for work, but with the numbers just on indeed, why is Nobody hearing back?

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John in Catonsville, Maryland

32 months ago

I don't think it's as black and white as either/ or with no middle ground.

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jobseeker in Bethesda, Maryland

32 months ago

Bluetea in Texas said: Most experts say and I agree that networking is the BEST way to find your job. Why do you think they say that?

I think they say that because it probably is so now. Forget about the bygone days of leaving your resume on Monster and having employers find and offer you a job.

Please not that I am not arguing whether this practice exists or is made up.

What I raise are some concerns in this regard if "networking" is indeed the only or most effective way to get hired today.

What if you are an Introvert? You could be a very talented person but entirely not into "networking". Even Albert Einstein, let alone mere mortals among us, would be left jobless if "networking" was the only way to land a job.

Nothing against networking er se, but there should be a way to recognize and give a chance to those of us who are not good at what is termed "networking", but may be very good otherwise and fit for the requirements for the field we apply for.

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jobseeker in Bethesda, Maryland

32 months ago

John in Catonsville, Maryland said: Well, if only A were used, how would you explain the people who are vastly inept (we have all had to deal with the on the job as well as when calling a help line for example) get and maintain employment?

And with so many people never hearing a word back (except for thanks for applying) from taleo apps? Granted, there are still many people looking for work, but with the numbers just on indeed, why is Nobody hearing back?

John, please read my reply to Bluetea.
Please notice that I do not say that those who claim B as viable option are lying about it. I just raise the concern and find contradictions/inconsistencies of B vs A.

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Bluetea in Texas

32 months ago

jobseeker in Bethesda, Maryland said: I think they say that because it probably is so now. Forget about the bygone days of leaving your resume on Monster and having employers find and offer you a job.

Please not that I am not arguing whether this practice exists or is made up.

What I raise are some concerns in this regard if "networking" is indeed the only or most effective way to get hired today.

What if you are an Introvert? You could be a very talented person but entirely not into "networking". Even Albert Einstein, let alone mere mortals among us, would be left jobless if "networking" was the only way to land a job.

Nothing against networking er se, but there should be a way to recognize and give a chance to those of us who are not good at what is termed "networking", but may be very good otherwise and fit for the requirements for the field we apply for.

Networking is the best way but not the only way. You can get a job by clicking submit over and over again but its not the best way.

I remember reading an article some years ago where they ranked job hunting techniques. Networking ranked #1 and submitting an unsolicited resume came in dead last. I don't remember what was it between.

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Bluetea in Texas

32 months ago

jobseeker in Bethesda, Maryland said: I think they say that because it probably is so now. Forget about the bygone days of leaving your resume on Monster and having employers find and offer you a job.

Please not that I am not arguing whether this practice exists or is made up.

What I raise are some concerns in this regard if "networking" is indeed the only or most effective way to get hired today.

What if you are an Introvert? You could be a very talented person but entirely not into "networking". Even Albert Einstein, let alone mere mortals among us, would be left jobless if "networking" was the only way to land a job.

Nothing against networking er se, but there should be a way to recognize and give a chance to those of us who are not good at what is termed "networking", but may be very good otherwise and fit for the requirements for the field we apply for.

If you are looking for a completely unbiased approach to the hiring process, rent the sci-fi movie, "Gattaca" to see how it will all be done in a hundred years.

Until then, who you know is pretty important.

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John in Catonsville, Maryland

32 months ago

That is about the way I took it, thank you for confirming. I just think (please correct me if I am misreading) you can only accept either A or B, and I am attempting to say a combination might be at play. I have found many things which are shades of grey instead of strictly black/ white

I can only give my personal experience as do other people here. We are all wise enough to know that we can not believe everything written on the internet, that most has to be taken with a grain of salt (sometimes a large one). When my personal experience coincides with what I see others write, to me, that provides legitimacy to what I see happening.

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jobseeker in Bethesda, Maryland

32 months ago

Bluetea in Texas said: Networking is the best way but not the only way. You can get a job by clicking submit over and over again but its not the best way.

I remember reading an article some years ago where they ranked job hunting techniques. Networking ranked #1 and submitting an unsolicited resume came in dead last. I don't remember what was it between.

Bluetea, I understand that networking may be the best option to land a job today.
But it is sort of inconsistent (you can't justify all the inundations of A by claims of "needing to select the best possible candidate ever:, whuah!!, while openly acknowledging that "in real world" it is not those parameters set in A but your "network" that decides if you land a job or not. Why even bother to post an ad? This is , without kidding, nothing short of Trolling the prospective candidates and job hunters who spend hundreds of hours submitting resumes while someone gets easily hired behind the closed doors or at the local friends of wine and cheese party.
That just doesn't make it consistent (the whole point of A if B is indeed what it takes to get a job).

Besides, what to do if you are introvert? Talented, able, intelligent but not an Extravert and not good on "networking"? What then? You are all doomed and finished because you are born an Introvert, all your relevant to employment qualities notwithstanding? Really?

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jobseeker in Bethesda, Maryland

32 months ago

John in Catonsville, Maryland said: That is about the way I took it, thank you for confirming. I just think (please correct me if I am misreading) you can only accept either A or B, and I am attempting to say a combination might be at play. I have found many things which are shades of grey instead of strictly black/ white

I can only give my personal experience as do other people here. We are all wise enough to know that we can not believe everything written on the internet, that most has to be taken with a grain of salt (sometimes a large one). When my personal experience coincides with what I see others write, to me, that provides legitimacy to what I see happening.

John, let me correct: it is not that "I can only accept A or B", it is about inconsistency of A vs B (as explained in my posts above).

I do not question the accuracy of the anecdotal evidence that "networking" is the way to get a job. Suppose it is so ,and I have no intention or basis to deny those claims, what I question is logical consistency or compatibility of B with A. Plus the fact that some of us are just born Introverts (a trait irrelevant to our ability to perform vast majority of job related tasks, except if we were applying for a job as a salesman)

If you read my posts carefully you will see the point I am trying to make.

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Jobseeker84 in Atlanta, Georgia

32 months ago

Elizabeth in North Chicago, Illinois said: I hear you. I'm in the same boat as you as far as networking goes.

Networking means you know someone who knows someone more or less.

THIS. That's all it is basically. There is no science to it. There is no writing out of scripts and telephoning employers with your expertise. Do you know someone? Does that someone work for a company that is hiring? Can they get you on? Bingo. That's it. You're hired. Sometimes without even interviewing. The OP and others are thinking WAY too hard about this. You can move to a new place with no job and in a week have one because you knew someone who worked for the company. That's just the way it is. No need to rack your brain on how it works.

Very RARELY does it NOT happen this way. I am part of the rare statistics who it has not happened this way for. My jobs in the past I got on my own without knowing someone in the company. It was just a stroke of luck for that season.

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John in Catonsville, Maryland

32 months ago

Ok, I think it's finally sinking in. Yes, it is inconsistent. I don't expect human beings to be 100% consistent 100% of the time. We accept (or simply do not recognize) our own inconsistencies as well as in others. Happens all the time in all of us. Something like "puppy love" when we fail to see any defects in the person we have fallen in lust with......

I just turned on the a/c so my brain might start functioning again......

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jobseeker in Bethesda, Maryland

32 months ago

John in Catonsville, Maryland said: Ok, I think it's finally sinking in. Yes, it is inconsistent. I don't expect human beings to be 100% consistent 100% of the time. We accept (or simply do not recognize) our own inconsistencies as well as in others. Happens all the time in all of us. Something like "puppy love" when we fail to see any defects in the person we have fallen in lust with......

I just turned on the a/c so my brain might start functioning again......

John,

I understand that you may be either happy with how it is or just indifferent ("well, I am not particularly fond of "networking", but I can handle it if I have to").

Now, this of it: there are people who don;t have this luxury: people who are simply Introverts and just not born to network. There are jobs where your ability to "network" is extremely important, such as in sales field (if you want to sell a house owner three chimneys you better be good at "networking"), but I am not applying for those jobs and I am talking about Introverts being able to do many tasks and jobs yet being at complete disadvantage of landing a job because of their innate personal property (which is irrelevant to job tasks anyway).

So, what are we, Introverts, now supposed to do?

Whereas, just as you, we can't change the fact that this is how job hunting is done, still we can raise awareness and concern by highlighting how we are put at disadvantage due to some in-born traits that are outside of our control and are irrelevant to work tasks.

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Jobseeker84 in Atlanta, Georgia

32 months ago

jobseeker in Bethesda, Maryland said:

So, what are we, Introverts, now supposed to do?

I am VERY much the introvert AND the loner. I can fake it until I make it, when I have to. But it pretty much leaves my feeling completely drained and depleted afterwards.

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John in Catonsville, Maryland

32 months ago

I think it is fair to say I've become indifferent. I got tired of "the fight" of trying to tell people something they don't care to hear.

I, too, tend towards the introvert side, so I know where you are coming from. As I posted above, I was never good at networking. When I was at work, I felt I was being paid to work, not socialize (especially with people I had little in common with).

At one job, I asked the boss about a process that I though could be improved upon and make the company more efficient and profitable. The response was "we have to chose our battles". I did not know what other "battles" he had, but, to me, how can being more efficient and profitable be a bad thing?

And there was a battle I was unwilling to fight due to knowing the predetermined outcome........which, of course, is one of my inconsistencies.........

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jobseeker in Bethesda, Maryland

32 months ago

Jobseeker84 in Atlanta, Georgia said: I am VERY much the introvert AND the loner. I can fake it until I make it, when I have to. But it pretty much leaves my feeling completely drained and depleted afterwards.

I don't know about you, but I am Introvert (just like Gustav Jung, famous Swiss psychoanalyst was: just an example to show there is nothing wrong with being Introvert, despite the mass-culture pressure to imply otherwise). And I am not exactly loner: I can have very close relationships or fulfilling conversations with people whom I "click" with and who happen to share my interests or what not.
And I feel in many aspects I am a lot happier than many of the "extraverts" I see breaking down and feeling depleted over "emptiness" and "Meaninglessness" in their lives.
I have no such concerns, because I can have pretty fulfilling, I would say even a thrilling evening just by staring at a night sky and marveling at its' beauty. Something many people ,who are overly concerned with what they own or drive, are incapable of enjoying.

I just do not have a trait (Extroversion) which is IRRELEVANT to tasks performed for jobs I apply for (most are in-office, analytical/research/paperwork based jobs, that you don't accomplish by chit-chatting with co-workers).
And I see it odd that I am almost doomed to not find a job in this market because I am an Introvert. That's all.

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Bluetea in Texas

32 months ago

jobseeker in Bethesda, Maryland said: Whereas, just as you, we can't change the fact that this is how job hunting is done, still we can raise awareness and concern by highlighting how we are put at disadvantage due to some in-born traits that are outside of our control and are irrelevant to work tasks.

You are preaching to the choir now. During your next interview, you can bring up your concerns. Heh!

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