Unemployed College Grad Needs Advice

Okay, I graduated from an expensive private college a year ago with a Psychology/Anthropology double major with a minor in Underwater Basket Weaving. My parents and I are now deeply in debt to the tune of about 5 figures. I've experienced the joys of unemployment for a year since -- an ever-widening period of time that employers are beginning to ask about... more on that later. The local (state) economy's not that bad compared to the rest of the nation, but so far, I've had 0 luck/opportunities, after a feverish search that admittedly mostly took place online with the occasional job fair/office complex jaunt where the prospective employers... promptly sent me back online. Since I'm an introvert who feels that my odds of making a good personal impression on a potential employer are quite low indeed, I feel most comfortable with online applications. Being online also cuts down on the odds of being discriminated against due to my race, which allows me to procure opportunities -- however few they may be -- to practice my interviewing skills. I've recieved about 6 or so interviews, but no offers -- a third of the interviews were with temp agencies.

White-collar, "true" (meaning no experience required) entry-level jobs are like unicorns nowadays. I’ve applied to a variety of jobs, mostly clerical, since that’s where my minimal experience lies, but also for jobs like residential cleaning, apprentice exterminator, Wal-Mart cashier, entry level processor in a fish processing plant, and a variety of retail positions. I applied for a plumber’s apprentice job today. I don’t know what to do with my degree when I apply for blue-collar jobs because it may be a liability, but if I omit it, I may be in conflict with full disclosure policies and I’d certainly have a gaping employment gap, one that a more cynical HR person may fill with an undisclosed stint in the pen. During my unemployment, I’ve been widening my base of computer skills and learning Spanish, but I’ve added these

(cont.) skills to my resume with no results. I call myself a recent graduate because I have no other attractive “brand”, but I know that the bloom is off of the rose, and this year’s grads are going to out-fresh face me. Somewhere along the line, you transition to “hard-core unemployed,” and I have a hunch that it’s after a year, perhaps less. I know that employers don’t want to hear a “Times is hard” soliloquy, so what do I say if it comes up again?

I live on the outskirts of a large metropolitan area, a desolate truck stop where buses fear to tread, so volunteering daily/unpaid internships without a transportation stipend aren't a feasible option -- also, I’ve discovered that the experience of being turned down for free labor is a surprisingly sharp blow to the ego amidst the litany that I’ve endured within the past year. I feel like my only alternative is to get an Associates' degree/certification in something people will actually pay me to do, which essentially means that I'll have to completely start over salary-wise as if my expensive education – 4 years of my life that were, contrary to stereotype, largely joyless -- never happened. I’ve been told that I'm too emotionally cold/introverted for nursing (where I could actually use my degree to get an accelerated BSN, be in a high-demand field, and receive what seems like rock star pay where I’m at). As a petite woman, I honestly don't feel like the military would be a safe option for me -- I'm willing to deal with attacks from the enemy, but not other soldiers. My friends are either in math-based majors or hiding out* in grad school. I felt that that wasn’t an appropriate reason to stay in school and decided to “face life,” only to find that Life’s ugly, its breath stinks, and it spits when it talks.

(cont.) To me, it seems somewhat counterintuitive to go to grad school, because I'd be getting into more debt -- unless I went for a doctorate – which ties me up for 4 years and unless I get bitten by the radioactive math bug and change majors, will make me simultaneously under and overqualified for pretty much everything except practicing psych* – which I don’t want to do, or teaching, which is, despite the comparatively low pay, a hard gig to land and also something I’m totally uninterested in. What am I interested in? Aesthetics, but I didn’t go to fashion/art school because I wanted to be able to find a job when I finished, and I refuse to go now for the exact same reason. I'm okay with doing a job/following a career path that I have only a marginal interest in, I'm just not into spending 4 more years of my life (or 2 years and more money) to meet the minimum qualifications for something that I only have a marginal interest in.

My father’s spent more of his adult life unemployed than employed, working manual labor/security jobs sporadically after a stint in the Marines. He stressed the importance of getting a four-year college degree (he didn't know to specify which) so I wouldn’t end up like him. But now we sit on my mother’s couch right next to one another, and have literally had to compete with each other for jobs. We both interviewed for a job loading packages about 4 months back – he “threw” his interview and spent it endorsing me, because I’m his daughter, and because he’s largely given up. What do I do?

*Psych schools are currently experiencing nigh unprecedented levels of applicants, because it’s a popular undergrad major, and see “friends hiding in grad school” Unfortunately, funding for both public and private schools has experienced no corresponding increase. Quite the contrary, in fact.

*I’m not just being a Bitter ahem, Betty here. They freely admit that the dearth of jobs – even temp positions -- is why they’re returning to school.

DanaJ said: Okay, I graduated from an expensive private college a year ago with a Psychology/Anthropology double major with a minor in Underwater Basket Weaving. My parents and I are now deeply in debt to the tune of about 5 figures. I've experienced the joys of unemployment for a year since -- an ever-widening period of time that employers are beginning to ask about... more on that later. The local (state) economy's not that bad compared to the rest of the nation, but so far, I've had 0 luck/opportunities, after a feverish search that admittedly mostly took place online with the occasional job fair/office complex jaunt where the prospective employers... promptly sent me back online. Since I'm an introvert who feels that my odds of making a good personal impression on a potential employer are quite low indeed, I feel most comfortable with online applications. Being online also cuts down on the odds of being discriminated against due to my race, which allows me to procure opportunities -- however few they may be -- to practice my interviewing skills. I've recieved about 6 or so interviews, but no offers -- a third of the interviews were with temp agencies.

White-collar, "true" (meaning no experience required) entry-level jobs are like unicorns nowadays. I’ve applied to a variety of jobs, mostly clerical, since that’s where my minimal experience lies, but also for jobs like residential cleaning, apprentice exterminator, Wal-Mart cashier, entry level processor in a fish processing plant, and a variety of retail positions. I applied for a plumber’s apprentice job today. I don’t know what to do with my degree when I apply for blue-collar jobs because it may be a liability, but if I omit it, I may be in conflict with full disclosure policies and I’d certainly have a gaping employment gap, one that a more cynical HR person may fill with an undisclosed stint in the pen. During my unemployment, I’ve been widening my base of computer skills and learning Spanish, but

?

That's why I had to break my post up into threes. After a -- in retrospect, rather generous -- allotment, the format cuts you (general "you") off. You should try to post again with the smaller quote that you want to directly address. Seeing as you're in the legal profession, I eagerly await your advice, so not recieving it would be anti-climactic at best, disappointing at worst.

DanaJ, You have to start writing! Novels, articles....O, GOD ....The way how you express your thoughts in writing is amazing....Your writing style is so appealing - smart, refreshing, sweet with hints of bitter and sarcasm. You are an introvert (just like me, except I can not write) and writing will be a good choice. I read your post 2 times and will read again to my husband tonight. If smart people like you with BS can not find job...I do not know where this country is going... seriously....

Hi DanaJ, I don't know where to begin but here goes. Have you decide to look for an internship to build you resume? What I am finding is experience far exceeds education when it comes to the job market. Your education and GPA are minimum requirements for some jobs, but it's the experience that always matters. You don't need to got back to school; you need work experience that will show employers skills are and if it's transferable to their needs.

Secondly, have you done any volunteer work that shows your leadership, organizational, interpersonal/written, creative, or other technical skills? Maybe its voluntary work every weekends that you need which will enhance yourself to employers.

Thirdly, how are your recommendations? Having good recommendations from a variety of people should help as well. If not, you need to go out there and do an internship/voluntary work. It may not pay monetarily but will help you build your resume and is cheaper than going back to back. In the mean time, you can look for work on the side.

Fourthly, ever thought about starting your own business? With the internet, you could make on the side some cash selling stuff on ebay or amazon. It's a matter of what items there's demand for. For instance, college textbooks are always hot items. You can get cheap books from online and resell them back to students on campus at cost below that of the college book stores and neighborhood college textbook stores.

Lastly, the economy now is horrible, especially for graduates. Don't blame yourself too much, you're not the only graduate who can't find a job. Even non-profit charities (Salvation Army, Red Cross, United Way, etc.) are suffering in this economy as donations have drastically declined; conversely, voluntary work for these organizations have increase. They can always use a helping hand.

Anyways, good luck on finding a job DanaJ. I hope that helps you out.

DanaJ u are my hero, u deserve a job just as much as i do....let's start our own company....

Dana, don't get suckered into anything. You're in survival, just like a lot of us. Here's all I can offer.
1. Continue living with your parents. You're young and that takes a lot of the financial stress off of you.
2. Do not invest money into any type of "job opportunity".
3. Do not use credit cards to pay for anything (and I mean anything).
4. Be sure you have deferment on your student loans.
5. Basket weaving sounds cheesy, but it may have some value right now. Look around in your community services, see if you can teach a class on basket weaving.
6. Do you think you're teacher material? Go through your college transcript, make a copy, highlight all your good classes (like math, science, and English). Evaluate what you need to do to go towards teaching (if you're interested).
7. I get the feeling you are free spirited and want a lot of different opportunities in life. Have you thought about court reporting (stenograph). Check it out. It's a big deal to take shorthand at 225 words a minute.

1. Continue living with your parents. You're young and that takes a lot of the financial stress off of you.

I am, but it makes me feel like such a loser, and a burden on them. *shakes head*

2. Do not invest money into any type of "job opportunity".

I know, but it's good to say, just in case anyone else doesn't know. MLM schemes flourish in this economy. Luckily, my misanthropy makes the prospect of sales a "no-go zone."

3. Do not use credit cards to pay for anything (and I mean anything).

Argh, I know, but I have to use them to pay for gas, resume copies, etc, so I can look for work -- I'm reading 'What Color is Your Parachute', so I'm doing the drop-in method of job searching, which is supposed to be more effective than Internet searching. I try to see it as an investment, but I hate having a balance.

4. Be sure you have deferment on your student loans.
I do.

"Basket weaving sounds cheesy, but it may have some value right now. Look around in your community services, see if you can teach a class on basket weaving."

Oh, I'm sorry, that was a joke. "Underwater Basket Weaving" is a term generally used to mean a class/discipline that's useless in the real world and/or the job market... it's specifically used to disparage liberal arts majors, especially any major that ends in "Studies."

6. Do you think you're teacher material? Go through your college transcript, make a copy, highlight all your good classes (like math, science, and English). Evaluate what you need to do to go towards teaching (if you're interested).

See, I've left my resume with Teach for America and a few other places, but I haven't really looked into teaching deeply because I worry that the same introversion that would make a bad nurse would also make a bad teacher.

(cont.)

7. I get the feeling you are free spirited and want a lot of different opportunities in life. Have you thought about court reporting (stenograph). Check it out. It's a big deal to take shorthand at 225 words a minute.

I actually have looked into it... it's a VERY good opportunity for those that can do it. There's a shortage, there's a lot of opportunities to make very good money, and I watch a ton of court shows, so I know I'd enjoy just sitting there quietly and hearing the proceedings... but the pass rate is atrocious -- like 90%-95% attrition, and while many steno schools claim to be 2-year, it usually takes 4 years to "get the hang of it", and pass the preliminary test for certification, if you get that far. I could do voice writing, I think, but steno is somewhere between playing a piano and 10-key, neither of which I know how to do -- I'm a hunt & pecker, albeit a fairly fast one.

I'd love to address the other suggestions posted here by all of you, but I've gotta go hand out applications right now. Wish me luck!

Mmm... today was kind of disheartening/humiliating. I went and applied for jobs at retail stores and restaurants. I had some people almost apologize for not being able to hire anyone now because business was so slow... on the other end of the spectrum, however, there was the manager who took one look at me, then grimaced at the cashier who asked him if they were hiring, the manager who told me that I was too inexperienced to wait tables, the application that asked prospective employees to disclose their weight and height stats, and the freckle-faced host that told me they were "all staffed up" while I realized just how young my competitors for these jobs actually are.

"Have you decide to look for an internship to build you resume? What I am finding is experience far exceeds education when it comes to the job market."

Well, it's definitely something that I'd be interested in, if only to get out of the house, but I stated some issues with the logistics of the venture in earlier posts -- paying for gas daily alone would leave me in the red.

"Secondly, have you done any volunteer work that shows your leadership, organizational, interpersonal/written, creative, or other technical skills? Maybe its voluntary work every weekends that you need which will enhance yourself to employers."

I have done volunteer work in the past, but none that would exhibit any of the skills you mentioned. I'm attempting to join volunteer programs at the local VA hospital and my town's community center.

"Fourthly, ever thought about starting your own business?"

Where would the starting capital come from? For me, starting my own business would be the very last resort. It's never been a desire of mine, and I saw my mother's crash and burn unceremoniously. I want the stability and security that consistent pay can provide and the knowledge that once I get home from work, that's it, no more, no less.

Okay Dana, since my offer was not taken up (and apparently marked as not helpful, which I take no offense at, sales isn't for everyone), and to answer your question on where start up capitol would come from to start a business, the answer their is remarkably simple. While every state is different and you would need to look closely at the codes first, here in CA you can get a resale license from the State Board of Equalization (Franchise tax board) for free. Wetworks is actually my fifth business, and I started ALL of my businesses with less than $200 starting capitol. Dana, one thing that has to change is your perception of sales. Whether people get it or not, you are selling something no matter what the job, even if it is only selling your self to an employer to get & keep a job. With that said, take a look around your area, look and see what promotional items are selling well in that area (hard goods or consumer products are do-able as well, but may take longer to sell) and make the trip to where ever your closest major city is. One great thing about the US is that every major city has a wholesale district, where with your re-sale license (which in most states is either free or less than $50) you can buy goods of all kinds for wholesale. The next part is the easiest. Shop your competitors, and undercut their margin. For example (and it is just an example, I am not suggesting this business), I opened a "head shop" in Orange County back in 2000. The average markup in the glass smoking accessories industry is 350% (standard retail mark-up). I rented a much smaller space than the shops in my area, making it possible for me to work with a 25%-125% markup (depending on the cost of each product I was selling). No advertising, no promotion, nothing to bring in new customers, but I got one my first day, and the next day I had a line around the block from my shop waiting to buy from me when I opened my doors. I was in the black in 4 days...

After six months, I was approached by a business broker who purchased my shop for my initial investment amount. Long story short, I made my initial investment back 10 fold. And that was with the over head of a shop. You could reasonably do the same thing with any product out of your home. So with the disheartened feeling you walked away with today, it might be time to reconsider your last resort as being your first.

Hi DanaJ. I stumbled on this post through pure coincedence. I just want to let you know, YOU ARE NOT ALONE! I graduated in July of 2008 from a larger university with a B S degree in Management backed up with a lot of finace. 3.7 GPA, honors, Magna C Laude......and no job. I have a lot of job experience and an internship with a large credit union. The problem is, as you know, NOBODY is hiring.....not here at least. You are exactly right, one year of actual on the job experience equates to about 3.5 years of higher education. I think the worst part of this economic climate is that people who currently have jobs just don't understand the magnitude of the problem. When they graduated they probably had the choice of 3 or 4 jobs, we can't even get a simple wal-mart job. We are flushed with dead end leads and most places yanking our chain for several weeks. I honestly have applied to probably 1500 to 2000 jobs in the last year, landing about 4-5 in person interviews and a few phone interviews, NOT A GOOD RATIO. But please remember, it is not you. I have a good story that will really explain how bad the economy is, and why this 9.4% or whatever it is unemployment rate is actualy severely underestimated (I've done a lot of research and the more accurate number is somewhere between 16% and 22%). My story starts out with my aunt who has worked with ING for 30+ years in insurance. Before it was ING it was many other things. She was laid off in Jan. 2009. She just found another job 6 months later with 30+ years experience making $12/hour, down from her previous salary of $50 to 60,000. So what? How does that help me? Well I guess it really doesn't, but to let everyone know that it is time for real change. We went to school to educate ourselves and we are left with massive amounts of debt in our parents basement. Imagine a world where we would get some sort of assistance to help us through these difficult times.

Bradley, thanks for your post.

But of course not! You are left to sit and rot. This stimulus plan is a joke. I have contact with several teachers and everyone has stated it will keep a few teachers on the job for another year or two, and then they are cut. It is indeed a band aid over a government created wound. I don't care what your political stance or ideology is, but the simple fact is stimulus packages don't work! The saddest part of all is right now the people on assistance are the BEST OFF!!! Everyone working is broke, everyone unemployed cannot find a job, and the dead beats are spending the taxpayers dime to sit around and not work. This system is truly backwards. Why do you think governments, California more specifically are going broke? Because the tax revenue is not there. They cannot afford all this welfare without the worker. But when the worker needs help, there is nothing there. It is time rise up and make real change. Participate in your local tea party rally. People from any political party are welcome. IT is not a rep./dem. thing, it is a movement to stop the government from growing, because when governments grow...YOU LOSE!!!

I don't want to make this into a political argument, but the Tea Parties ARE pretty clearly a Republican/Libertarian/right-leaning thing -- not that it's even bad to have a thing, but it is their thing. Also, on one hand, you propose that it would be nice for people like us to have assistance -- I'm assuming, even though I may be wrong, that you're not talking private assistance -- yet you still maintain the belief that people that are on assistance currently are deadbeats/undeserving. Well, I'll tell you something. There are people out there that see you & I in the exact same way -- as deadbeats and parasites who don't have the ingenuity to "pull ourselves up by the bootstraps" and "create our own jobs", even after recieving, through the form of a 4-year degree+American citizenship, more opportunity than most of the world's population will see in a lifetime. I know I'm trying, I believe that you're trying, but I also believe that most people (not all, but most) that are currently on public assistance are trying, too -- possibly trying harder, because we don't have the added impetus of children to feed, clothe, and educate, and a lot of them do.

Again, Bradley, I'm using copious restraint, here -- because I LOVE arguing about politics with people* on the Internet more than you know, it's an addiction that I'm trying to kick -- but I'll just say that I think we can and should work on ways to improve our life position without disparaging others, if possible.

*My mother has suggested law school before based on this penchant, but I know -- okay, assume -- that law is one part theater & sharp suits to five parts boring research, pedantry and trying to cut your colleagues off at the knees for career advancement... I hoped that the "legal warrior" guy would return and perhaps avail me of that notion. :)

Dana, you really make a lot of assumptions about people, things, and political persuasions without knowing a lot about them. Seems like that was what you sited in Bradley's post as a sore spot for you.

The one thing that I have seen as a common thread in every post I have seen on these forums(and you can mark this post as "unhelpful" if you like, but before any of you get's defensive, let it land & see if it fits for your situation, if it doesn't, then ignore it because it is not meant for you) is that everyone is desperate to find legitimate legal work until it is offered to them or a way of doing for themselves is suggested. Then a slew of excuses and misconceptions, stereotypes or defensive mechanisms (i.e, personal attacks etc.) come to the surface. So I am going to repeat this message here as I stated it in the "Hire a felon! Please!" thread. A MAJOR part of attaining what you want in this life is about attitude, specifically the one you carry with you. And a facet of that is what you do with the opportunities that come your way. Do you look at them and try to see where they MIGHT work, or how they CAN'T possibly work. If you are in the second group folks, you are going to be in your current situation for a long long time. And for that I am sorry, but it is totally in your control. In most cases if you find yourself falling into that second group, chances are very high that you show up in your life the same way, looking for reasons to avoid taking action rather than seizing the opportunity ahead, and to an extent that is not your fault. We have a culture now of "Make no waves, go with the flow & do ONLY what is comfortable". But the problem with that thinking is that it is restrictive and counterproductive to person growth and achievement.
Maybe you are afraid of failure, but ask anyone who has succeeded big in life (and business) and they will tell you the same thing everytime. The fell on their faces a thousand times. Then they stood up...

...brushed themselves off and the time they hit 1001, the succeeded at achieving their goal. It only takes the one success to change your life, but it takes you changing your mind to get there, and this doesn't come from a fortune cookie or a multi-millionaire or someone that hasn't struggled. I was in and out of trouble with the law when I was a kid until I was about 19. I lost MANY good jobs shortly after getting them because of the trouble I got into. Every business I ever started was started out of necessity, and I didn't like any of them except Wetworks because they were not what I wanted to be doing and certainly were not in my comfort zone. I have had more money than I knew what to do with, but I have also been so far down that I lived under a freeway overpass for 6 months so broke I couldn't even afford to eat but twice a week. And I have certainly been in the place some of you find yourself now (and some of you less likely to admit this to your selves than others). You believe that you are not good enough to succeed. You don't believe that you are valuable enough as a person to obtain what you want and you think that no one will value you the way you think you should be valued. And here is the saddest part (and believe what you want, but forgive any typos as I continue because I am starting to tear up and it is getting hard to see what I type). This is bull, and you are selling it to yourself. It's no one else's fault that you are in that position, and until you stop telling yourself such horrible lies about yourself and your self worth, it is not going to get any better. But it is like a drug addict, some of you may have to hit bottom before what I am saying makes sense (denial as a means of self preservation is a strong instinct, hard for some people to overcome). Yeah, I did it. I got myself out of that thinking, and I won't lie to you and say it was easy & it sure as hell wasn't comfortable, but it needed to be done, not just for me...

but for my kids. THEY deserved it even if I didn't. So I hope the sincerity of what I am saying here jumps off of the screen and shakes you as it should, you can make this change when ever you want, but you have to want to make that change, you have to WANT your life to be different. Maybe it isn't doing sales, maybe it isn't being your own boss. Maybe it isn't even finding a job right now, maybe you are reading this and are lucky enough to have your job still, but haven't been getting what you want out of it. But this is REALLY the kicker in all of this. YOU & ONLY YOU can change that...when you are ready. Life is 10% of what happens to you and 90% how you react to it. Might seem cliche, but it is truth. Pure and simple. For those of you that have sent resumes to me, you have gotten responses and I hope to hear back from you. For those that haven't and are not going to, I sincerely wish you the best of luck, both in your quest for employment and for your own personal growth to carry you through this difficult time in your life. God bless, and God's speed, but remember it is in your hands.

"Dana, you really make a lot of assumptions about people, things, and political persuasions without knowing a lot about them."

But I do have extensive personal experience with small businesses -- they were just extremely negative experiences. I've also been fairly politically active in the past. Just because I'm young, that doesn't mean that all I have is groundless conjecture.

"Seems like that was what you sited in Bradley's post as a sore spot for you."

What I found fault with -- or my "sore spot" was -- the denigration & misrepresentation of others that are, in reality, in far worse straits than I, and if that makes me naive in your eyes, than naive I'll stay. But, we digress.

"It's no one else's fault that you are in that position, and until you stop telling yourself such horrible lies about yourself and your self worth, it is not going to get any better."

But.... if it's your (general "your") fault and no one else's, wouldn't a negative self-evaluation be completely justified, unless what you're advocating is eventual forgiveness of oneself, because it's unproductive to dwell on past or present failure(s) -- which I can agree with.

"The one thing that I have seen as a common thread in every post I have seen on these forums(and you can mark this post as "unhelpful" if you like, but before any of you get's defensive, let it land & see if it fits for your situation, if it doesn't, then ignore it because it is not meant for you) is that everyone is desperate to find legitimate legal work until it is offered to them or a way of doing for themselves is suggested."

I think that everyone is "guilty" of having a tiered list of what they would personally consider suitable work.* One person's list may vastly differ from another's, but everybody has a list based on their personality, skills, needs, circumstances, and affinities. For me, for instance, a commission-only sales job would be less desirable than a McJob, because I strongly value structure and consistency, while for someone else, it may be at the very top, because they value autonomy, spontaneity and the prospect of higher earning potential more than other factors. If this same theoretical person decides to start a family, their priorities, and therefore, their preferences, may change. Also, in my house, "self-employed" was the agreed-upon euphemism for my father's unemployment, so it's loaded for me, and would symbolize my complicity with repeating the cycle. I'd much rather do an unpaid internship and expect no money while recieving vital experience, training, and potential networking connections than hope for money and work for myself with no guidance, no training, and no references for future employers.

*If anyone disagrees, feel free to comment, ya'll.

Dear DanaJ, if I weren't already in a committed relationship I'd say I was in love with you, but that helps neither you nor I.

Myself, I went the escapist route to graduate school, but have now completed my Master's with two useless degrees (illustration & audio engineering) and still no prospects. I have no advice other than to say that you are not at all alone. I'm a quarter-centurion with two useless degrees, a mountain of debt, and no useful job experience outside of an internship from 2001 and various odd jobs at restaurants. My fiancee is in even worse shape with a mountain of medical bills that have destroyed her credit on top of her student loans and general lack of employment.

Hopefully the situation won't become dire enough that I'll have to move back in with my parents--fiancee and 3 cats in tow. That should be interesting. I suppose if worse comes to worst there's always the Ph.D....

In any case, the only thing I really meant to say, and the only thing I really have to offer, is a wish of good luck. I find myself feeling that you're more likely to find work than I, for what its worth.

P.S. I think you should seriously, seriously consider following the writing route. You've clearly some wit about you, and it isn't a serious investment of time, energy, or money to draft some spec articles or essays on various topics that you could submit to any number of places that might employ you in the future; even submitting to online outlets that might not pay right now will give you exposure and experience that you might use towards securing a paying gig. Writing being largely a solitary endeavor, I feel that it would fit well into your personality and world-view. I think you really should give it a go.

Best wishes.

"But I do have extensive personal experience with small businesses -- they were just extremely negative experiences. I've also been fairly politically active in the past. Just because I'm young, that doesn't mean that all I have is groundless conjecture"
-Your past doesn't dictate your future, fail a thousand times, still try 1001, you just might succeed happily. And I didn't say that you were groundless, only that you were casting a stone while living in a glass house.
"I think that everyone is "guilty" of having a tiered list of what they would personally consider suitable work"
They aren't guilty (not sure where you got that from since it is not what I said and even more at a loss as to why it is in quotes), they're entitled to that (as I said from day one, sales is not for everyone, which is why I didn't bring up our company's openings again).
"Also, in my house, "self-employed" was the agreed-upon euphemism for my father's unemployment, so it's loaded for me"
So that means anyone who is self employed is really unemployed? Sorry, that just doesn't seem clear.
"But.... if it's your (general "your") fault and no one else's, wouldn't a negative self-evaluation be completely justified, unless what you're advocating is eventual forgiveness of oneself, because it's unproductive to dwell on past or present failure(s) -- which I can agree with"
No, it wouldn't because it is self defeating (and the fault comes only in continuing with the pattern). And I do not advocate eventual anything. If one is going to forgive themselves, apply for this that or another job, make a commitment to positive thinking or life changes, then do it now. Most of the time, eventually never comes because we put off for tomorrow what we should have done today.

...and Jessica, online surveys by & large are a complete waste of time, but thanks for sharing.

"They aren't guilty (not sure where you got that from since it is not what I said and even more at a loss as to why it is in quotes), they're entitled to that (as I said from day one, sales is not for everyone, which is why I didn't bring up our company's openings again)."

I wasn't quoting you or even implicitly accusing you of having said such a thing, I was emphasizing that I meant guilty as a figure of speech. Tone is difficult to convey over the Internet -- which has led to many a quarrel/flame war -- so I used quotes to ensure that nobody thought that I thought that it was something to honestly feel guilty about/be guilty of. I'm sorry if there was any miscommunication there.

"So that means anyone who is self employed is really unemployed? Sorry, that just doesn't seem clear."

Of course not for everyone, but like I said, it would mean that for me, personally, that's why I said that in <b>my</b> family, self-employment was used as a euphemism and a shield from the stigma.

*crosses fingers regarding the boldness tag*

Update: Apparently, I'm not Chili's material. ;) And has anybody posting here recieved a job offer through an Internet application alone, sans inside connections, in a non-tech field? I've definitely heard of the job boards working, but how about the company websites?

Maybe this article I found will help you, "How to find a job in a bad economy!!"
URL : bizcovering.com/employment/how-to-get-a-job-in-a-bad-economy/

Misconception aside (I apologize, I thought you were quoting me, which was why I was lost), the comment about what self employment means in your house was made in such a way as to project that self employment really means unemployed. I was merely trying to point out to you that asserting something like that in such a blanket manner is both untrue and dangerous because of the effect that it could have on someone weighing the decision to strike out on their own reading it and assuming that others would simply think of that person as out of work trying to avoid getting work. Point overall being that you obviously have a few friends in this thread that value what you are saying, so maybe you should be more thoughtful of your choice of words given that by and large (and quite understandably) many people who are looking for work are also dealing with a self-worth/worthiness conversation and depression because of their situation.

I graduated top of my class. I majored in Anthropology, and I regret it. If I had done biology, I would have a job right now. But a degree is an accopmplishment. I have been out of a job too, and it's frustrating. I do know that some poosibilities are becoming an officer in the military, getting a MA in counseling, getting computer skills to work in it, working for the state, becoming a teacher, getting a masters to teach, or working in some crappy job you won't like which is totally unrelated to your degree in order to make ends meet. If you do get another degree, a public school does offer financial aid to those who qualify and cheaper tuition. Spoken like a pro, yes, but unfortunately I am in the same boat. I've just been out a little longer, which makes it a bit harder to go back to school.
I know it's scary, especially when all those efforts did not seem to pay off the first time. But since there are no jobs, it's better to fill the gap by gaining some more skills. It's just a matter of figuring which ones to get.

Believe it or not, stuckndmud, I've heard that there's not much you can do with a Biology undergrad major by itself -- that it's more of a stepping stone to med school/grad school. I also look back on the other choices I could've made as far as majors were concerned, but I come up short, because my math skills were atrocious*. Numbers may as well have been Chinese characters to me, and that excluded pretty much all of the lucrative/high-demand majors. In light of that, I did pretty well for myself... I picked up two majors for the -- admittedly exorbitant -- price of one. Right now, I'm trying to figure out what people with my academic background actually end up doing.

*I'm much better than I used to be, but probably still not as good as the average college graduate.

I don't see my comments displayed on this thread.

First of all, I have thoroughly enjoyed reading all this....I stumbled upon that site after googling about college grads failing pre-employment personality screenings.....and I have to say, I could not bring myself to press that 'back' button and continue my research. Rather, I become addicted to reading line after line of the mirror image that is my life. I graduated with a Bachelor's in Mass Comm in 2004 and have had odd jobs but no real career. I am stumped. Yesterday I took a personality test as part of pre-employment screening for Cox Communications and FAILED?! I then find out that it is basically a requirement to lie in order to pass these tests. Unbelievable! This same thing happened to me when I applied several months ago at Sephora, the cosmetics store. I'm like "HELLO??? I'm a college grad, I'm a girl, I wear makeup....what else do you want from me?" Lies, that's what they wanted. Whooda thunkit?

DanaJ good luck in your search, I wish you the best. A career in creative writing would really suit you IMO, but does such a job exist and does it even pay well?

By the way, I am one of those job hunters who has the added impetus of children to feed, clothe, and educate. Sigh.

Worst of all, they have questions that they use as "tells", so to speak, that are there to weed out fakers... so there's an ideal level of lying you apparently need to do to ace them. Too few, and you don't get hired, too many (or the wrong kind), and they consider the test invalid. So, what's your ideal career, Lindsay?

My ideal career? Why that my dear, would be the career I've had as a stay at home mom (SAHM) for nearly the past 2 years. The one flaw I've found in the otherwise fabulous job, is its lousy pay!

I applied at Lowe's Home Improvement Store today. There was a short personality questionnaire and I remembered to lie on the appropriate questions that required lies as reponses...at least I think I did. I guess we shall see! Waiting....waiting....

Actually, a degree in biology - sounds like you could work at Disney World, Sea World (working with animals); science teacher.

DanaJ, I may have overlooked this, but are you unwilling to relocate?

Ah, it depends on for what and where. I hate my town so much, I was willing to stock shelves in Jersey until my mother pointed out the difference in the cost of living.... I can only take "real" jobs in other states because Texas has a lower cost of living than anywhere else, so if the wage is a pittance here, it'll be a penny elsewhere, and I won't be able to live with my parents or any other relatives, because they're all in TX. Even for real jobs, I'd have to foot about a hundred for transportation for a face to face interview, which seems like a massive gamble. My uncle assures me that he can get me either a call center position or a job at a fast food joint in his city, which is about an hour away. If I get either position, I'll have to move.

my suggestion....

START A BUSINESS, GO ON AN AUDITION, WRITE A BOOK/PLAY/MOVIE, TURN A HOBBY/CRAFT INTO A JOB!!!

its all the hope we have until the economy gets better! lol (whenever the hell that is!)

*cringes in a corner* You didn't have to yell at me, you know, Cris. As for auditions... I live in TX & have no previous experience as a rodeo clown. Lately, I have been writing... things. As for hobbies... all of them cost much more money than they make -- I'm a spectator/consumer -- which makes this moneyless thing all the more frustrating.

Dana, do you even want to work, or did you start this thread as some kind of a joke?? While your writing is quite eloquent, you seem to meet every suggestion with why it doesn't/won't work (and in some cases you even come across as though you are too good for certain options). The fact is that in this kind of an economy, you are lucky to have any opportunity at all. Seems to me if you were serious about wanting advice, you wouldn't shoot down every suggestion.

I graduated from an expensive private college a year ago with a Psychology/Anthropology double major with a minor in Underwater Basket Weaving.

OK, Diana, here is my take and advice. First I get the joke about the minor, but I must ask what you were planning to do with your major? Anthropology seems useful only if you are going to teach or to work in a museum or something. As a person who has hired in the past I can say "Psycology" will be seen in the business-world as a degree one step above "comminucations." In other words, "I went to 13th grade and didn't know what I wanted to do, I never figured it out but had to graduate eventually." So I will ask, "Where did you want to work with your degrees?" If you know, you should start working towards that.

Sorry if that sounds harsh, but at some point we need to be in this nation.

Now, if you still don't have an idea from the question above, I must say you need to get a copy of "What Color is My Parachute" from the library. Do the exercises in the beginning as they help you "focus" a job search on what you want to do.

Mantime, I'd register with every temp agency in town. Take *any* "survival job" you can get and make the best of it. Bus (not even wait!) tables at Chili's to learn the business, then move up.

I'm middle aged but had to move back in with family after a few job disasters. Last year I was in survival-job mode. Then I found something better, then another better thing that grew. Now I am close to being better yet and back to my old salary level. The point is to keep a good attitude, keep in the game, and not wait for "Obama to help!"

"While your writing is quite eloquent, you seem to meet every suggestion with why it doesn't/won't work (and in some cases you even come across as though you are too good for certain options)."

Really? Wow. Where did that come from? I am actually taking some of the advice, ya'll.... I've said that I'm totally willing to relocate, provided that I'm able to support myself in my new place of residence and pay my loans, and I've shopped an unpaid internship around to employers in lieu of finding one that I'm qualified for (because a lot of them only take current students, or different majors). Also, I'm doing what seems to me like a metric ton of networking. The only things that I'll flat-out refuse to do at this point is commission-only sales, illegal/underground economy stuff & anything "adult" or involving firearms -- I'm just stuck up that way. I'm going to start a marketing consulting thing (at my mother's unconventional behest) -- as soon as I train myself *face palm* to do that, until I find a job that I consider real, which is including but not limited to minimum-wage domestic work or being trained by someone who knows what they're actually doing for free. Of course, how good I'll be at running a last-resort business that I'd drop in a second the minute Burger King beckons is up for debate. I'll continue to look into teaching, and I have yet to find someone willing to pay me to write for them. Yeah, I guess I don't want a job after all, really. *cocked eyebrow, and admittedly, a bit of a glower*

"As a person who has hired in the past I can say "Psycology" will be seen in the business-world as a degree one step above "comminucations." In other words, "I went to 13th grade and didn't know what I wanted to do, I never figured it out but had to graduate eventually." So I will ask, "Where did you want to work with your degrees?" If you know, you should start working towards that."

I did want to practice therapy when I started out, but I discovered that I'd probably be bad at it, because talking to people isn't my strong point. I suspected that business doesn't respect liberal arts majors all that much, and I'd be more comfortable in a non-profit environment anyway, so I'm looking into grantwriting/development now. I have registered with about 10 temp agencies by now, but I've never been called for an assignment... ever. I can't seem to get a survival job, and boy have I tried, and I'm continuing to try. I actually am currently reading "What Color Is Your Parachute?" Lol... I'm not "waiting on Obama", although I feel that he's doing his best, which may... not be good enough. But that's another story/theory for another thread, IMO.

[QUOTE who="DanaJ
I did want to practice therapy when I started out, but I discovered that I'd probably be bad at it, because talking to people isn't my strong point. I suspected that business doesn't respect liberal arts majors all that much, and I'd be more comfortable in a non-profit environment anyway, so I'm looking into grantwriting/development now. I have registered with about 10 temp agencies by now, but I've never been called for an assignment... ever. I can't seem to get a survival job, and boy have I tried, and I'm continuing to try. I actually am currently reading "What Color Is Your Parachute?" Lol... I'm not "waiting on Obama", although I feel that he's doing his best, which may... not be good enough. But that's another story/theory for another thread, IMO.

It isn't a matter of "respecting" liberal arts majors, it is a matter of practicality. Sazy you want an office job. The hiring manager is going to ask about if you know accounting and such, not Psycology. In the "real world" relevant skills count. As to going for the nonprofit world, good luck, but you have locked out 95% or more of your possible jobs.

I'd have to ask what are you looking at as a survival job? There has to be a pizza shop, Applebees, McDonalds, or the like there. Unless you are in the smallest of towns. Nothing wrong with starting there, McDonald's has good career paths if you take it serious.

But at this point in your career path, forget about saying you will relocate. No one will care until you have been around. Few places will hire an out-of-towner until they relocate to the new city.

To the temp agency thing, I am sorry to say but you must set your sights very, very low. Places hire temps for skills, which you seem to be saying you have few. Check out Manpower--it is a hiring hall arrangement where you must show up daily, but it is work. Or do what I did and try and find night-jobs so you can interview in the day.

"I'd have to ask what are you looking at as a survival job? There has to be a pizza shop, Applebees, McDonalds, or the like there. Unless you are in the smallest of towns. Nothing wrong with starting there, McDonald's has good career paths if you take it serious."

I've applied to places like that, and been told things like, "Your education makes you overqualified for what we do here.", or, on the other side of the coin, "You have no food service experience, and you're probably going to leave in a month."

"As to going for the nonprofit world, good luck, but you have locked out 95% or more of your possible jobs."

Jobs with employers that you contend wouldn't see me as a valuable candidate because of my majors and dearth of "real skills." I'll continue to look for jobs with corporations in the meantime (as I always have), but if I'd prefer a non-profit and they'd prefer people with my background, then, why shouldn't I have that as a long-term goal? I really don't want to have to start from scratch and deal with people who think that I might as well have done nothing for four years -- I didn't gain the experience that the business world values in that time, but I didn't party and have a fantastic time there either, so I'd like to eventually be renumerated for my time, work, and well, money there. Do you think that I should leave my majors undisclosed on my resume when applying to business organizations? I have actually repeatedly expressed my willingness to work any hours/days because I thought that it would be a "selling point", but there have been no offers for night work thus far. Previously, I was under the impression that Manpower was a conventional temp agency, so I'd registered online a few months back, but I'll see if they have a physical location in my area.

Forming your own buisness isn't the easiest thing to do. After my last company was taken over by an evil empire, I went in with another former employee and started one. Three years later, it's surviving, but barely. I haven't been able to pay myself in over a year and was forced to take a retail job to make the bills.
The retail job ended in March and I've been eaking out an existence on unemployment since. I'm trying to find a another retail position, but those seem to have gone the way of the dinosaur, even if there is plenty of new retail construction going on around me. The HR departments have locked themselves behind "personality tests".

Rummah Kasai in Collegeville, Pennsylvania said: Forming your own buisness isn't the easiest thing to do. After my last company was taken over by an evil empire, I went in with another former employee and started one. Three years later, it's surviving, but barely. I haven't been able to pay myself in over a year and was forced to take a retail job to make the bills.
The retail job ended in March and I've been eaking out an existence on unemployment since. I'm trying to find a another retail position, but those seem to have gone the way of the dinosaur, even if there is plenty of new retail construction going on around me. The HR departments have locked themselves behind "personality tests".

If you haven't been able to pay yourself in almost a year after three years in business then you don't have a business, you have a "hobby." Close it down and focus on the retail job for now.

BTW: Your comment about "evil empire" might indicate why you are failing the "personality tests."