Are employers looking for perfections in those they hire?

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twdfan in Los Angeles, California

4 months ago

I'm overwhelmed in frustration when it comes to the hiring process. I've had several interviews recently and over a long period of time prior to that and yet no job offer. I've revamped my resume many times, and my current version has gotten me more interviews. Still I get no job offer. I've read blogs on interviewing techniques, as well. The most frustrating thing is that it used to be easy to land temp jobs. I have great skills. But now agency clients (the employer) want to interview the prospective temp just as if it was a permanent job -- even if the job is only to last a week. What are they looking for in the candidate? They have my test scores in front of them that were provided by the agency. I've been told it's also about fit. Really? If the temp possesses the skill, shouldn't the "perfect fit" be secondary since it is a temporary position in the first place? No one is absolutely perfect since it's a subjective observation. Maybe they want a 20-something? That's ageism and is illegal, but they can get away with it so long as they don't allude to it in any way, there will be no repercussions. If any one has anything to share about this, please do. I need a job and I'm desperate!

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AtExit8 in City, New Jersey

4 months ago

It is bad job market out there especially if you are not 20-something.
Employers seem to gravitate toward them for some unknown reason.

Some of the jobs may be temp, but some employers may want them to go perm.

I wish I knew the magic answer.

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sighmaster in Massachusetts

4 months ago

twdfan in Los Angeles, California said: Maybe they want a 20-something?

Yep, take a look here, app.talentresponse.com/jobs/freelance-graphic-designer/216

"We're looking for an elite YOUNG designer..."

Companies don't even bother to lie anymore when it comes to ageism.

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twdfan in Los Angeles, California

4 months ago

I can beat that. A few years ago, I saw an ad on Craigslist and it said no one over 25 should apply. I called EEOC and spoke with someone who told me the only way the people who placed the ad can get sued is for someone over 25 apply and don't get the job AND to prove that the person they hired is 25 or under. I'm just at a loss for what to do at this point.

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wuddooqw in San Francisco, California

4 months ago

twdfan in Los Angeles, California:
what job are you looking for, if your own looking into temp agencies, or temp work, that should be changed.

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AtExit8 in City, New Jersey

4 months ago

sighmaster in Massachusetts said: Yep, take a look here, app.talentresponse.com/jobs/freelance-graphic-designer/216

"We're looking for an elite YOUNG designer..."

Companies don't even bother to lie anymore when it comes to ageism.

Don't these idiot companies know that the "young" aren't the ones with the money and that the company should be thinking about pleasing the "older" folks with the cash to spend?

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twdfan in Los Angeles, California

4 months ago

When they say "young" in the ad they mean they want to hire someone young to do the job. I don't think they're talking about who is going to buy the product or service. But the insinuation is that only a young person (a Millennial) is capable of creativity. If I was a designer, I'd be higher offended. In my case, I'm an administrative assistant. The interview that I went on last week was for a one week temp assignment. The interviewer went on and on about my skills and the fact that my resume was well-written which is synonymous with knowing how to punctuate, that I had a high typing score, and about my over test scores that the agency had provide were great. Yet, I didn't get the assignment. Dollars to donuts, they hired some who is probably 25-35. If only I could be a fly on the wall and see who who they hired. The other job, I have no clue because I haven't been able to connect with the recruiter
. No call and no response to my e-mails.

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dogbert61782 in Chicago, Illinois

4 months ago

Sigh, I often wonder this myself. A lot of times, I debate if I should start a business on the side selling photos I take of things, on my own? It's beyond frustrating, why I always get passed over when I apply for jobs.

I've quietly wondered if it was because of the gap it's been since my last job(going on 7 years, but that was only because I was doing things with my life that weren't employment), or for another reason. Never mind I do volunteer at 2 places, and despite putting those 2 places down, I still get passed over at the places I apply for. Am in my mid-30s, and I don't get why it always repeatedly happens to me. Even applied at an Amazon distribution center late last year in the hopes I'd get a different result, and that didn't work. Sigh.

I'll probably try again for Amazon at some point, but not sure when yet I'll try again.

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AtExit8 in City, New Jersey

4 months ago

twdfan in Los Angeles, California said: When they say "young" in the ad they mean they want to hire someone young to do the job. I don't think they're talking about who is going to buy the product or service. But the insinuation is that only a young person (a Millennial) is capable of creativity.

That's my point.
Not only is a millennial not the only the age group capable of "creativity", what they "create" may not necessarily be what the 30+ population wants to buy.

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twdfan in Los Angeles, California

4 months ago

AtExit8 in City, New Jersey said: That's my point.
Not only is a millennial not the only the age group capable of "creativity", what they "create" may not necessarily be what the 30+ population wants to buy.

I've heard of many reasons why there's reluctance to hire older candidates like 40+ and 50+ and none of it holds water. One thought is they aren't as pliable as the younger work. They want people capable of being adaptable to their way of doing things. Translation: Older workers are set in their ways and not adaptable. The other is the older worker will cost them too much whereas the younger person with only a couple years experience will take that low ball salary. But wait, if the older worker knows what the job is paying and want it, then it must be something else.

There's a fairly recent article in Forbes that I just read online about ageism. Disgustingly, it has been revealed that PriceWaterhouse won't hire anyone older than 35 for their accountant positions. The reason? They want the company to be seen as youthful. I believe they have been sued and settled the case against them. I think there was a 53-year-old candidate who was turned down that brought on the lawsuit against PriceWaterhouse. Zuckerberg of Facebook has been quoted about youthful hires. How stupid as these companies are throwing away the value that the older and more experienced candidate brings to the table.

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Ruby Slippers in Las Vegas, Nevada

4 months ago

twdfan in Los Angeles, California said: One thought is they aren't as pliable as the younger work. They want people capable of being adaptable to their way of doing things.

That's horse$hit. The real reason for ageism is the cost of healthcare for older workers. We are just more expensive to insure and as long as employers act as agents for private health insurance, that will continue to be the case.

I am over 50 and I see the look of disappointment on their faces, the minute I step into the room for an interview.

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twdfan in Los Angeles, California

4 months ago

That's so sad. Basically, you're defeated as soon as you walk in the room. I don't think it matters whether the interviewer is over 40 since their goal is to hire someone much younger.

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designer bee in Waukesha, Wisconsin

4 months ago

My husband has been told at 3 different interviews that they don't hire anyone over 50 or they were looking for someone younger. One place even asked him if he had any health problems.

I've wondered at certain jobs if I got turned down because of age and I thought about that since I was 39. Pretty sad if 39 is too old.

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twdfan in Los Angeles, California

4 months ago

wuddooqw in San Francisco, California said: twdfan in Los Angeles, California:
what job are you looking for, if your own looking into temp agencies, or temp work, that should be changed.

I'm looking for work as an admin assistant.

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designer bee in Waukesha, Wisconsin

4 months ago

Now I'm really over the hill. Just take me out and shoot me. lol

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designer bee in Waukesha, Wisconsin

4 months ago

There is one thing about the young ones in their 20s and 30s, they have kids or will be soon having kids. That means they will be sick more often or call in more often. The over 40 and 50 crowd already raised their kids or can't have any more. Old people like us don't have those kids on insurance plans any longer or not too much longer. Employers need to think about that.

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AndyRising in a State of Bliss

4 months ago

Someday they will be old.

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twdfan in Los Angeles, California

4 months ago

designer bee in Waukesha, Wisconsin said: My husband has been told at 3 different interviews that they don't hire anyone over 50 or they were looking for someone younger. One place even asked him if he had any health problems.

I've wondered at certain jobs if I got turned down because of age and I thought about that since I was 39. Pretty sad if 39 is too old.

Wow! That's flat out illegal. Hope he reported it to EEOC. If they said that, they didn't even tr be subtle about it. Employers who that blatant to admit to discrimination need to get slapped with heavy penalties.

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designer bee in Waukesha, Wisconsin

4 months ago

Problem is that it's his word against theirs. They will just deny it.

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Ruby Slippers in Las Vegas, Nevada

4 months ago

twdfan in Los Angeles, California said: Wow! That's flat out illegal. Hope he reported it to EEOC. If they said that, they didn't even tr be subtle about it. Employers who that blatant to admit to discrimination need to get slapped with heavy penalties.

The EEOC won't do a thing unless the violation is open, numerous and/or notorious. In other words, someone usually needs to initiate a class action suit.

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Ruby Slippers in Las Vegas, Nevada

4 months ago

designer bee in Waukesha, Wisconsin said: My husband has been told at 3 different interviews that they don't hire anyone over 50 or they were looking for someone younger. One place even asked him if he had any health problems.

I've wondered at certain jobs if I got turned down because of age and I thought about that since I was 39. Pretty sad if 39 is too old.

Not yet. But if you are waiting for Hooters to call you back, that might be awhile.

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CoachRachael in Massachusetts

4 months ago

@twdfan, totally understand. Is there any way you can find out from the companies themselves (not the temp agency) what they're looking for in the candidate? Perhaps through a LinkedIn connection or a simple phone call.

Also, would you be willing to provide extensive value to the company - for free? It's like giving them a taste test. Put yourself out there as a volunteer as a first step. That's the only way they'll find out if you're a "perfect fit". Otherwise, they'll never know.

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jobseeker1927 in Anytown

4 months ago

Ruby Slippers in Las Vegas, Nevada said: That's horse$hit. The real reason for ageism is the cost of healthcare for older workers. We are just more expensive to insure and as long as employers act as agents for private health insurance, that will continue to be the case.

I am over 50 and I see the look of disappointment on their faces, the minute I step into the room for an interview.

Unfortunately you're very correct or this. A few years back, while talking with a cousin of mine, she told me that she'd been in mgmt a few years prior. She told me that the back office scuttlebutt was "steer clear of older folks, because the disability insurance rates are higher". I said "Y'mean it's not me??!". I felt relieved but frustrated. Relieved, because I realized I wasn't doing anything wrong. But frustrated, because I knew there was nothing I could do about it. :-/

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CoachRachael in Massachusetts

4 months ago

Are you saying that there are no over-50 employees getting hired? I have not come across any such thing in my research, although it may not be totally wrong. But there are people at all ages getting employed simply because they knew the right things to say and do.

If you see people's faces once they see you're older, then perhaps you need to relieve them by saying something appropriate. When a company really wants to hire you, they'll do whatever it takes to get you. No matter what you look like. So the bottom issue is not age. There's more to it than that.

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AtExit8 in City, New Jersey

4 months ago

CoachRachael in Massachusetts said: There's more to it than that.

Some times there is no more to it than that.
They don't want older. Plain and simple.

It is no different than people pre-judging based on body weight, race, etc.

It goes on and quite often if you talk to 50+ people who are job hunting.

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Ruby Slippers in Las Vegas, Nevada

4 months ago

CoachRachael in Massachusetts said: Are you saying that there are no over-50 employees getting hired? I have not come across any such thing in my research, although it may not be totally wrong. But there are people at all ages getting employed simply because they knew the right things to say and do.

If you see people's faces once they see you're older, then perhaps you need to relieve them by saying something appropriate. When a company really wants to hire you, they'll do whatever it takes to get you. No matter what you look like. So the bottom issue is not age. There's more to it than that.

Sprinkle the fairy dust elsewhere. I use to work for an HMO. The bottom line IS age.

Hasn't been my experience. In my 35 years in the workplace, I have been told NOT TO hire _________ because he/she is too ________________. You fill in the blank and I have heard it. The minutes I reached 50 I was suddenly overqualified for almost everything. That is what I am saying.

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Ruby Slippers in Las Vegas, Nevada

4 months ago

AtExit8 in City, New Jersey said: Some times there is no more to it than that.
They don't want older. Plain and simple.

It is no different than people pre-judging based on body weight, race, etc.

It goes on and quite often if you talk to 50+ people who are job hunting.

I am 65 and my nephew is 25. We are both in good health but who do you think is more likely to need open heart surgery, hip replacement or chemotherapy in the next few years?

If both of us apply for the same job, who do you think is the "better fit". Don't overthink it.

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jobseeker1927 in Anytown

4 months ago

So what's a person to do when they're "too young to retire but too old to hire"?? We have bills to pay too, just like everyone else. :-/

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Ruby Slippers in Las Vegas, Nevada

4 months ago

jobseeker1927 in Anytown said: So what's a person to do when they're "too young to retire but too old to hire"?? We have bills to pay too, just like everyone else. :-/

There is no Silver Bullet answer to this. Keep your eyes open for where older folks are being hired even if it means flipping burgers or cleaning houses until you can apply for Social Security.

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twdfan in Los Angeles, California

4 months ago

CoachRachael in Massachusetts said: @twdfan, totally understand. Is there any way you can find out from the companies themselves (not the temp agency) what they're looking for in the candidate? Perhaps through a LinkedIn connection or a simple phone call.

Also, would you be willing to provide extensive value to the company - for free? It's like giving them a taste test. Put yourself out there as a volunteer as a first step. That's the only way they'll find out if you're a "perfect fit". Otherwise, they'll never know.

One of my questions that I ask when the interviewer turns the table on me and opens up the conversation to any questions is what does their ideal candidate look like or something similar to that. Of course, all the characteristics that they rattle off match me such as punctual, hard worker, blah, blah, blah. In fact, the last interviewer complimented my resume and noted that it was obvious that I have great skills in grammar and punctuation. However, I did get an odd question put to me as to if I had issues with having a male admin who would be training me during the two day training. I responded that I have no problems with that. She said she asked because some people have issues taking direction from a male admin assistant. So with my answer, it should be interpreted that I'm not biased or inflexible. The kicker is this was a one week assignment and yet a full blown extensive interview was conducted. They interviewed plenty of people for it, but they chose someone else.

I'm very, very hesitant to volunteer my services to prove myself. For one, if I need paychecks, and two, if after a week or whatever agreed upon period and I'm not hired on, I would given my talents and experience away for free. Usually, temporary employees prove themselves to an employer and are brought on board in the position or one similar and getting paid in the process.

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AtExit8 in City, New Jersey

4 months ago

twdfan in Los Angeles, California said:

I'm very, very hesitant to volunteer my services to prove myself.

I wouldn't do.
For crying out loud, we're talking a lousy $10/hour here.
The employers can afford that!

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2Legit in Cincinnati, Ohio

4 months ago

Here's a different idea for you: being young means they will work for less money because they have less experience. Less experience = less pay.

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AtExit8 in City, New Jersey

4 months ago

2Legit in Cincinnati, Ohio said: Here's a different idea for you: being young means they will work for less money because they have less experience. Less experience = less pay.

You must have missed the part where the older workers due to whatever reason is willing to take whatever job is available.

But then these employers think that because they do this the older worker will jump ship.
News to them: the millenial will do the same thing.

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twdfan in Los Angeles, California

4 months ago

Millennials will definitely jump ship when something better comes along even moreso than the older worker. So the employer isn't going retain employees any longer by hiring them over people in their 40s and 50s.

In my last permanent job an older admin was let go. She was told they were eliminating her position. That wasn't entirely true. Part of it was her performance, but if that the only thing, they could've put her on notice that if she didn't improve she would be terminated. What they did was wait a several months then started recruiting for a "new" renamed position. Same duties as the old job with the exception that it required a BA degree.

They had so many problems with the people they hired -- both Millennials. The first one thought she could delegate her work to others when it came to anything that needed to be typed. WRONG! She claimed that was the impression she had when she got the job. In her first few weeks she took time off to take her dog to the vet for surgery. She quit in less than six months. She definitely felt entitled. The next one they hired didn't work out either. She was a nut job or from what I heard later had boyfriend issues that the employer felt could be a danger to others in the office. (Think stalker cop coming to shoot the place up or just kill his target). When all was said and done, they just eliminated the job completely. SMH

I saw an ad yesterday that was so overt in its discrimination. In the first sentence it said they were seeking NEW GRADS looking for a role with career opportunity or some such. It's obvious they're looking for someone in their early to mid-20s. Older people may as well skip that one because they'll never make the cut even if they have skills and experience I don't know how that isn't discrimination.

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AtExit8 in City, New Jersey

4 months ago

Since when a BA degree necessary to be an administrative assistant? [shaking my head]

That ad you saw may be one of those cold call jobs.
I see a lot of those ads.
Cold-calling people isn't my idea of a career opportunity.
I guess they figure the new grads can handle the rejection better. LOL.

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Lovie in League City, Texas

4 months ago

Ruby Slippers in Las Vegas, Nevada said: That's horse$hit. The real reason for ageism is the cost of healthcare for older workers. We are just more expensive to insure and as long as employers act as agents for private health insurance , that will continue to be the case.

I am over 50 and I see the look of disappointment on their faces, the minute I step into the room for an interview.

I know exactly what you're talking about. I'm 45 and I get that same dejected look when they come to the lobby to greet me. They don't try to hide it whatsoever. And I am VERY well dressed and well groomed. They let you know with the expression on their face that they are not pleased.

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Sabsfan in Frederick, Maryland

4 months ago

dogbert61782 in Chicago, Illinois said: Never mind I do volunteer at 2 places, and despite putting those 2 places down, I still get passed over at the places I apply for. Am in my mid-30s, and I don't get why it always repeatedly happens to me. Even applied at an Amazon distribution center late last year in the hopes I'd get a different result, and that didn't work. Sigh.

I'll probably try again for Amazon at some point, but not sure when yet I'll try again.

People always tell me to volunteer because I can't get a job. I get so tired of hearing that. I don't want to go into it expecting to get paid within a short time and I know that's exactly what I will do. It's just ridiculous because volunteering should be something you want to do just to help people not to try and get a job. If other people are okay with doing it to gain experience that's fine but that's them.
It'd be one thing if you worked for free as a trial run at the place you're trying to apply to but companies apparently don't do that anymore (although even then you gotta make sure they're not going to use you to get free labor)

I feel you OP and I'm not even in my 30s yet. Perhaps even being chronologically in my late 20s is too old too ): esp when you have little work history. I have tried to fill up the gaps with online gigs that I do but that doesn't seem to help. I think the biggest barrier for me is interviewing but that's not something I can ever be good at and I'm lucky to even get an interview when you are forced to do most applications online anymore so you end up in a black hole. It doesn't seem to matter if you passed the personality tests either.

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CoachRachael in Massachusetts

4 months ago

hmmm.... it may be true that they pay less to young folks, but not always the case. In my experience, the young 20 somethings who get hired end up earning the same and MORE than what those who've been working at the same company for a long time. It depends on several factors. I know of a 50 year-old who's been with the company for 21 years earning $23/hr then a 24 year old got hired, straight out of college, zero experience...guess how much they paid her for doing the same type of job?? $24/hour!!

Something to think about.... yes, they were of a different race (you can probably guess which one is which race) but there were other factors. It's not just age or race.

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twdfan in Los Angeles, California

4 months ago

You have to sell yourself to the hiring manager so that they believe you're the right person for the job is what I've learned from webinars. I admit that selling anything, even myself, is not something I'm comfortable with. If I had to do commission-only sales I'd starve. But even though I try to employ the strategies that I've learned, I still don't get the offer despite the fact that my test scores are excellent and my background and experience matches what they're looking for.

A thought popped in my head that maybe the solution is to form an agency that specializes in recruiting the older worker. But then the other side of that is selling a client base on why they should seek out older employees. There seems to be a real need for this.

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jobseeker1927 in Anytown

4 months ago

twdfan in Los Angeles, California said: You have to sell yourself to the hiring manager so that they believe you're the right person for the job is what I've learned from webinars. I admit that selling anything, even myself, is not something I'm comfortable with. If I had to do commission-only sales I'd starve. But even though I try to employ the strategies that I've learned, I still don't get the offer despite the fact that my test scores are excellent and my background and experience matches what they're looking for.

A thought popped in my head that maybe the solution is to form an agency that specializes in recruiting the older worker. But then the other side of that is selling a client base on why they should seek out older employees. There seems to be a real need for this.

I agree about there needing to be agencies just for older folks. It kills me that there are advocates for handicapped, veterans and teenagers, but none for folks over 50. Who's out there for us?

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twdfan in Los Angeles, California

4 months ago

jobseeker1927 in Anytown said: I agree about there needing to be agencies just for older folks. It kills me that there are advocates for handicapped, veterans and teenagers, but none for folks over 50. Who's out there for us?

Wish I knew how to start up something like that. I'll research it for sure. I remember seeing hiring events at a local employment resource center for veterans. There are such events for the handicapped, as well. But now that it seems like there's a trend in preferring to hire people with little experience (recent college grads) and using buzz words like "digital native" in ads which is code for people who came of age in the digital age, there needs to be an agency or hiring event focused on the older market.

It all comes down to money on their end when it comes insurance, but group health plans are probably priced differently than the individual market. So other than these employers wanting a "youthful" workforce like PriceWaterhouse did and got sued over because they discriminated against an over-50 accountant candidate in favor of a much younger one, there's no reason to not hire older workers.

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jobseeker1927 in Anytown

4 months ago

twdfan in Los Angeles, California said: Wish I knew how to start up something like that. I'll research it for sure. I remember seeing hiring events at a local employment resource center for veterans. There are such events for the handicapped, as well. But now that it seems like there's a trend in preferring to hire people with little experience (recent college grads) and using buzz words like "digital native" in ads which is code for people who came of age in the digital age, there needs to be an agency or hiring event focused on the older market.

It all comes down to money on their end when it comes insurance, but group health plans are probably priced differently than the individual market. So other than these employers wanting a "youthful" workforce like PriceWaterhouse did and got sued over because they discriminated against an over-50 accountant candidate in favor of a much younger one, there's no reason to not hire older workers.

I'm thinking maybe we need advertisements to "sell" us. Folks buy worse concepts than older folks that way, so why not us too?

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Ruby Slippers in Las Vegas, Nevada

4 months ago

Lovie in League City, Texas said: I know exactly what you're talking about. I'm 45 and I get that same dejected look when they come to the lobby to greet me. They don't try to hide it whatsoever. And I am VERY well dressed and well groomed. They let you know with the expression on their face that they are not pleased.

My sister says "You can be an old teacher but you can't be an old stripper. Nobody wants to see that". LOL!

Years ago, I remember interviewing a woman who was probably the same age that I am now. She was wearing some vile perfume that was a cross between a urinal freshener and a botanical garden. Everybody who passed my office, held their noses and shook their heads as if to indicate "No Hire". I think I have become her.

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ouyt134 in San Francisco, California

4 months ago

twdfan in Los Angeles, California:
yea your right, its not true for everyone who gets low pay right out of COLLEGE. it really depends on which degree, and field your in. in stems, besides engineering and computer science. your expected to earn only slightly above minimum wage with 0 experience, if you can even find a job, with 1-4 years experience , expect a little more hourly than that. secondly these ultimate requires a graduate degree, or training to get somehwere between twice the amount of minimum wage, to 3 times. eventhen its pretty low in stem field. if you compare the wages of an engineer, or computer programmer, admin, or something do with coding. you can expect a 75k-100k salary right off the bat, with at least 1-2 years experience, and no graduate degree. compared with stem, you earn 3 times as much.

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ChasityBlack in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania

4 months ago

Trust me it's not because you're older I'm in my early 20s and still cant get a job.

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Sabsfan in Frederick, Maryland

4 months ago

jobseeker1927 in Anytown said: I'm thinking maybe we need advertisements to "sell" us. Folks buy worse concepts than older folks that way, so why not us too?

That would be a nice idea. If only I could make a video resume but it would probably have to be related to the job so it would probably only work for a design job (which is the most likely to require experience) and even then I'm not sure it would work.
I'm very design oriented but I'm shy about what I do too and I'd probably have to show my face on camera..yuck.

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