Hows the Market??

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Tom Joad in Southfield, Michigan

78 months ago

Hi there. I am currently an auto mechanic at a Ford dealership, have been for about 12 years. I am thinking of making the jump to aircraft, but before I attend classes, etc etc, I was wondering how the job market is? Nationally, I mean. Thanks for any advice you can give.

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Bob Nemec in Loveland, Colorado

73 months ago

Do not go into aviation as a mechanic. I wasted 12 years chasing the dream-my fault. Don't be mislead by the incomes of guys with 30 years in the field, they are on "A" scale which you will never see. Aviation schools are a buisness for profit.

The only reason to go into aviation is to travel cheap. This was possible before 911 when the airlines were doing pretty well. Now, all the major airlines have hundreds if not thousands of mechanics furloughed who have recall rights before you have any chance of employment. I have 8 years seniority with United and it will likely be at least 10 to 20 years before enough people retire or die before I am recalled. ( if the union dosen't give away recall rights in a future contract). By that point, I will be retired myself. The reason is the airlines are ousourcing everything maintenance related possible.

Even if you do somehow make it to an airline be prepared for a difficult work schedule. Everthing is union and everything revolves around "seniority". Seniority determines everything from how much you make, your schedule, days off, when you can take vacation and on and on. Without many years of seniority you will work midnights, holidays, weekends, rotating schedules and otherwise miserable hours. You will be a number on a list, trated accordingly and always under threat of a layoff. There is no job security.

Your options other than airlines are now mainly third party maintenance facilitys. Yes you will find a job at any of them because they have a revolving door when it comes to staffing. Here you will be slave labor. Low wages, mandatory overtime, exposure to chemicals, poor management and so on.

Corporate and general aviation are other options. Same income problem though. You can make more money shoveling dirt than working on small aircraft. Corporate? Jobs are few and far between--Better know the big guy well, like married to his daughter for a job. Seriously, pick another trade

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Randall in Austin, Texas

72 months ago

I have 29 years in aviation. 5 + in the Air Force; I have been working for AA over 23 years. Everyone I know with any sense is looking for a way OUT. I agree with Bob Nemec (above). Do ANYTHING else at this point. Airline jobs are no good today. Go back to school, get a degree in business, finance or the arts.
Good luck!

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April in Little Rock Air Force Base, Arkansas

72 months ago

I have a second interview with Union Pacific coming up (operations management) and I wanted to hear some opinions about seperating from the Air Force. I have been in almost 8 years as a sheet metal mechanic. Although I do not mind the job, I came in motivated to finish school, then get commissioned. That is nearly impossible to do at this time. So, I've decided to venture out and see what else is available. Money isn't everything, and the military isn't too bad, but my goal was to get a degree and use it! Any opinions??

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Brandon in Wichita Falls, Texas

72 months ago

If you can stand it at all I would stay in for another 12 years and then take the retirement. You could spend that time working on your Masters. If you think about it, if you retire at 38 and live until you are 68 which nowadays is pretty conservative thats 30 years of retirement you can get for doing nothing. 30 years x 12 months=360 months, say you get 2000 after taxes not assuming future pay raises its still $720,000! I would say that if I had to do it all over again, I would just heavily invest my earnings into something that would provide even more income when I got out and just say to hell with working at all!
But if you really hate it that much, I have noticed a lot more jobs out there for sheetmetal guys than for regular A and P's. I think a thing that might hurt you it that it seems like employers still want you to have the Powerplant rating and your AFSC doesn't qualify to test for it. As far as the railroad job, I have no clue about it. Sounds like it might be cool!

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13 year veteran in Las Vegas, Nevada

69 months ago

Stay at the dealership!!! Changing to an aircraft mechainc would be going the wrong way! We are always joking around that the car mechanics are making more money than we do, and don't have the liability we do! (if a car breaks down you just pull over, planes crash!). There is very little incentive to work for an airline right now. You don't even get as much free travel as you used too. Planes are too full, no seats for the lower priority freebies! Benefits are going down. And most are outsourcing jobs to save just a couple pennys on the dollar. Very fickle industry

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Josh Titor in Spring, Texas

67 months ago

Fxck aviation Period.

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Bob in Winnipeg, Manitoba

67 months ago

Tom Joad in Southfield, Michigan said: Hi there. I am currently an auto mechanic at a Ford dealership, have been for about 12 years. I am thinking of making the jump to aircraft, but before I attend classes, etc etc, I was wondering how the job market is? Nationally, I mean. Thanks for any advice you can give.

I'm 25 years in aviation.STAY IN AUTO MECHANICS!Layoffs,salary reductions,constant turnovwers,reductions in benefits,shift changes,low pay for high skill.I would take it back if I could.I regret so much going into aviation maintenace.labor rates to perform service center work on multi-milloion dollar jet aircraft are lower than labor rates at your dealership I guarantee.tempo services are beginning to dominate the industry,re salaries and benefits decreasing,and fuel prices are killing off corporate flight departments.the best advice you could get is to avoid aviation altogether!

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louis in Madison, Alabama

66 months ago

if you really want a job in the avaition field, then go for it. It is all up to you on how you like it, i did 6 years as a helicopter mech in the army and now im a sheetmetal mech for a growing company in huntsville dealing with a lot of prototype mods on uh-60m blackhawks. again it is all on how you make it cause i love it

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GFor in Los Angeles, California

64 months ago

You don't necessarily have to go to work for an airline to work on an airplane. There are plenty of FAA certificated Repair Stations out there. They pay well and are very stable right now. Like '13 year veteran' said about working for an airline; "Benefits are going down. And most are outsourcing jobs to save just a couple pennys on the dollar."

While I like to call it contract maintenance, the reality is that these repair stations are highly competent and skilled workers. My whom possess A&P ratings too.

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jetmech_97 in Knoxville, Tennessee

63 months ago

That's right...if you're a contractor on one of the repair stations the pay package is from $19.00 to $28.00 hr. but if you go direct, they'll start you at $13.00 to $15.00 hr. with probably a .30 cents yearly raise. A&P license is not really a requirement for the sheetmetal(which pays more than A&P) or interior positions so they don't get affected by the recent experience clause. Most of them don't have A&P license! There's a lot of jobs overseas especially for those who have prior military aircraft experience. They get paid really good! With free housing too.

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cat in Ypsilanti, Michigan

62 months ago

I have been in aviation from the time i was born. life is what you make of it. I have a family of four and aviation has made that possible for me. If I had to work for a living it would kill me. I think I just enjoy what I do. It's all about what you whant out of life. If aviation mechanics is what you whant then make it happen. It's all up to you?

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Joey in Houston, Texas

57 months ago

cat in Ypsilanti, Michigan said: If I had to work for a living it would kill me.

So your in the aviation industry, but don't work? I guess your one of those union guys huh lol j/k

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575 in Albuquerque, New Mexico

57 months ago

Joey in Houston, Texas said: So your in the aviation industry, but don't work? I guess your one of those union guys huh lol j/k

no i put 30 years in aviation, now i'm retired and enjoying life. jose martinez

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northerngirl in Warren, Michigan

56 months ago

my husband has over 20 years as an airframe and powerplant mechanic. he's 53 and just finished a one year contract in Iraq and the pay was fantastic plus the tax incentives. i can tell you this, he's always said that if it wasn't for him going into this field, we wouldn't have the opportunity we have now (especially in this economy). he's signing up for another year over there. lol

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David_J in Takoma, Washington

56 months ago

louis in Madison, Alabama said: if you really want a job in the avaition field, then go for it. It is all up to you on how you like it, i did 6 years as a helicopter mech in the army and now im a sheetmetal mech for a growing company in huntsville dealing with a lot of prototype mods on uh-60m blackhawks. again it is all on how you make it cause i love it

It your "passion" is aviation then go for it. But remember "passion" will not pay the mortgage.

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David_J in Takoma, Washington

56 months ago

northerngirl in Warren, Michigan said: my husband has over 20 years as an airframe and powerplant mechanic. he's 53 and just finished a one year contract in Iraq and the pay was fantastic plus the tax incentives. i can tell you this, he's always said that if it wasn't for him going into this field, we wouldn't have the opportunity we have now (especially in this economy). he's signing up for another year over there. lol

Iraq is great if you don't mind being shot at.

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Savage in Paris, France

56 months ago

I am currently a helo repairer for the CH-47 Chinook. I love aviation. I am currently in Iraq and looking forward to starting a civillian job as an aircraft mechanic when I get back. Sucks the military rating doesnt mean you automaticaly get an A&P. You still have to go and test out on stuff and take a few additional classes if you want the associates degree to go along. Aviation is a passion field. I wouldnt recommend it if your heart isn't into it. Flying is what to stay away from. I spent thousands of dollars to get my pilots license in school and ended up working at UPS with a couple pilots who were furloughed (sp). I would recommend staying away from the giants and get with a repair shop. Military experience is gold in the industry. If you are young I would recommend doing the 6 years and get all the free/paid training you can on the governments dime. Not to mention they have programs that pay for your A&P testing and schooling. Depending on where your from the guard offers up to 20k for them in ohio when I enlisted and active is 40k I believe. Choice is ultimately up to you. This is just from my experiences so far.

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JVN in Seattle, Washington

51 months ago

go for it as long as you love it man.

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Billy Jim Joe Bob in Seal Beach, California

44 months ago

I would stay as far away from this industry as you can! I have 20 years with a major airline and now with the merger I maybe out on the street! The joke in the industry is "WHEN, NOT IF" you get laid off get ready to go to truck driving school! I have started my own business and bought a Peterbilt just in case (NO JOKE)! I am so sick of it I cant see straight!

Best Wishes,

PS. I still work graveyard and weekends by the way!

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beverly in Warren, Michigan

44 months ago

I'm so thankful that my husband got into this industry. He's a jet mechanic (lear, kingair, etc)and is now overseas in afghanistan, last year iraq, and is making fantastic money and considering that there's no jobs out there, especially in the detroit metro area, he considers himself very fortunate that he had this trade. It's a tremendous sacrifice for us having to be seperated and for him to be in that environment, but that's why the pay is what it is. So, in my opinion, this trade is well worth it.

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amedinarangers in Corpus Christi, Texas

39 months ago

northerngirl in Warren, Michigan said: my husband has over 20 years as an airframe and powerplant mechanic. he's 53 and just finished a one year contract in Iraq and the pay was fantastic plus the tax incentives. i can tell you this, he's always said that if it wasn't for him going into this field, we wouldn't have the opportunity we have now (especially in this economy). he's signing up for another year over there. lol

I am interested in working in Iraq. Could u give me details about the contractor he worked for? I am an A&P mechanic for 10 years

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beverly in Eastpointe, Michigan

39 months ago

check out the company URS online. go into the division for aviation. or use a search engine and using the keywords "overseas jobs a and p mechanic" and you'll find listings of companies who can connect you to the jobs overseas, like Aerotek. My husband worked for Lear Siegler Inc in Iraq and now L-3 Communications, he's over in Afghanistan. You'll find that once you get over there, it's all about "networking" to make a career of it. Hope this helps. Best of luck.

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Darren in Chicago, Illinois

34 months ago

What employment companies are the best to work with? How does the process work?

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Beverly in Eastpointe, Michigan

34 months ago

Aerotek and JS Firm have a lot of listings. Or go directly to the company themselves, "URS" - (Lear Siegler Inc); L-3 Communications (Vertex) supposedly hiring 500 - 600 by the end of year (that's been heard); Dyncor; and, Evergreen Aviation. My husband just gave me these names. Also, he just stated, regarding the comment about "free housing", he actually laughed about that because it is "free", but it's "four walls and you could be in a tent" with the bathrooms quite a good walk away. 70% of the "great pay" is danger and hardship pay, the other is regular pay. The living conditions are not for the "faint at heart". Also to get the Federal Tax Exempt of $94,100 you must be out of country for 330 days in any 12 month period. Hope this helps.

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chiefbean1107@aol.com in Loves Park, Illinois

31 months ago

If knew what I know now about being an A+P mechanic...... I would have been a nurse, fireman, ditch digger, donut hole maker....

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df in Griffin, Georgia

26 months ago

David_J in Takoma, Washington said: Iraq is great if you don't mind being shot at.

you are stupid helicopter mechanics in iraq especially civilians are well protected they more than likely wont hear a gun shot the entire time they are over there dont bash crap you dont know about

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HELP in Belleville, Michigan

26 months ago

im in high scchool lookin at vo-tech to become a pilot whats the job market for piolets just need some insight email me at (mbakid5@yahoo.com)oh and for those of you wonderin what vo-tech is it is me goin to school for 3 classes a day and the other half i go to a college and take classes for my desired career path? thanks for readin XD

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WildKarrde in Wichita Falls, Texas

26 months ago

Be a pilot if you can afford it and that's what you would love to do. I would love life making only $20,000 a year as an airplane pilot... and that's about what most pilots can expect to make the first few years after they get their license. Speaking of which, it costs upwards of $60,000 for the 4+ months of school it will take for you to get your commercial multi-engine pilot license. That's not including the college degree that most pilots are expected to have. If I could do it over, I would max out all my credit cards, and take out whatever loans I could, that I knew I would never be able to pay back. Cuz bankruptcy can't take back your pilots license... best I know. Good luck to you, I hope it works out better for you than myself.

PS. Obviously, your best bet at becoming a pilot is joining the Air Force. It's not easy, but unless you come from a family of wealth it's a lot easier than the alternative.

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jessa in Johnstown, Pennsylvania

26 months ago

northerngirl in Warren, Michigan said: my husband has over 20 years as an airframe and powerplant mechanic. he's 53 and just finished a one year contract in Iraq and the pay was fantastic plus the tax incentives. i can tell you this, he's always said that if it wasn't for him going into this field, we wouldn't have the opportunity we have now (especially in this economy). he's signing up for another year over there. lol

what company did he go with. I am really hoping to go over as and aircraft electrician/avionics mech but cannot seem to find the right company. If you know anything please let me know!

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John J in Pinconning, Michigan

26 months ago

jessa in Johnstown, Pennsylvania said: what company did he go with. I am really hoping to go over as and aircraft electrician/avionics mech but cannot seem to find the right company. If you know anything please let me know!

There are lots of jobs overseas right now, just search jsfirm.com and filter "international". I was making 175k a year working 40 hours a week in Iraq. Afghanistan has a bunch of opportunities with AAR, Dyncorp, L3 Vertex, M7, evergreen, the list goes on an on. I know dudes over there that will retire at the age of 30. Dont work for the airlines, check out my blog www.myaandplicense.com/blog-3/ and make some real money contracting. Start applying now, it takes awhile to get hired. Also, call the companies and keep bothering them about hiring you. Tell them you are ready to go! Good luck!

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lou in Dothan, Alabama

26 months ago

There are jobs if you have experiance. Even with an a&p! I finished a school for my A&P 8months ago and still no work. For brand new mechanic is hard to find jobs.They are few and far between. Your a&p doesnt guarnty a job. You dont have to go to a expensive school for it either. Check ypur community colleges. Thats what i did. I only paid about 13thousnd for it. Have fun looking for a place to get in for the experiance.

Good luck!!

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Jason in Munford, Tennessee

23 months ago

I was there as a mechanic for 15 months. It is not that bad. Is it as good as sitting in your living room? Of course not. You work hard, learn a lot and get paid good. Is there a potential chance that something could happen? Yes. You are working in a combat zone. Remember you are in aviation there is a potential chance for anything happening.

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John in Mukilteo in Lynnwood, Washington

22 months ago

Air Force, Airlines, and now building airplanes. I love airplanes. But I gotta agree, you will sacrifice your health, safety, family life, and time with friends. With the airlines, rotating schedule on off shifts; had to carry around a calendar to see if I would be available for parties with friends and family. Building airplanes, there are so many chemicals and inexperienced people around you. Seems like they are TRYING to kill you. The comments of husband in Afghanistan and Iraq and taking contract work all over the world... Fine for her, shes home safe and getting to spend time with kids. How many birthdays and holidays have I missed?? Safety is really changing and coming around to increase your life expectancy longer than 6 months after you retire but I don't have any current reports on that. Travel used to be great with the airlines. Didn't matter how many oversells they had, you show up, you get on. Now, I don't even bother showing up if they are within 5 of being sold out with my retirement status. Good luck in your decision. Like I said, I love airplanes. I live a block from the airport so I can hear the noise. I have made the aviation industry work for me and never been without work.

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QAMang. in Santa Fe, New Mexico

22 months ago

If you want to go into the Aviation world I would suggest that you stay as far away from the airlines as you can, its shift work weekends holidays and unions. And the promis of 40+ dollars an hour is for one guy who has been there scince 1969. I've been there, helicopters are the way to go I made the switch about 5 years ago and the money is better and the work is more secure. And if your willing to go overseas and take some risk then the money is great. And getting away from the unions helps out a great deal, finaly you are reconized for you work ethic and ability and not how many years youve been there "drawing" a check. Right now military contracts pay the most for the most part but that competetion is driving up the price that other operators have to offer so med-evac is not to far behind, forest sevice contracts are great to if you like to travel and can get hired (people hang on to those jobs and the forrest service raises the threshold for experince and qualifications), and CPB is also pushing up wages aleast in my area(El Paso). In the five years I've been doing rotor wings I've never been with out a job in fact a often get mulitple offers while employed (in this economy) while every one is looking for work my wages have gone up by 50% over the past 5 years increasing each year. I credit this to me making the switch from airlines to helicopter. And WHEN you get hired be willing to stick with that company, but don't be scared to roll out if a great opprotunity comes your way!

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joe in Stockbridge, Georgia

20 months ago

Savage in Paris, France said: I am currently a helo repairer for the CH-47 Chinook. I love aviation . I am currently in Iraq and looking forward to starting a civillian job as an aircraft mechanic when I get back. Sucks the military rating doesnt mean you automaticaly get an A&P. You still have to go and test out on stuff and take a few additional classes if you want the associates degree to go along. Aviation is a passion field. I wouldnt recommend it if your heart isn't into it. Flying is what to stay away from. I spent thousands of dollars to get my pilots license in school and ended up working at UPS with a couple pilots who were furloughed (sp). I would recommend staying away from the giants and get with a repair shop. Military experience is gold in the industry. If you are young I would recommend doing the 6 years and get all the free/paid training you can on the governments dime. Not to mention they have programs that pay for your A&P testing and schooling. Depending on where your from the guard offers up to 20k for them in ohio when I enlisted and active is 40k I believe. Choice is ultimately up to you. This is just from my experiences so far.

I have been in aviation since 1975. It has been good to me and yes there are a lot of ups and downs in this field. However, your military experience should qualify you to take the A & P FAA exam, but the subjects the testing covers are not areas you would have experience with in the military. I recommend taking the two year A&P school so you will have the basic knowledge to pass the FAA testing and get your licenses the commercial industry requires. It is good information and will make you a better A&P. Not to mention it will make you qualified!

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John J in Caro, Michigan

20 months ago

That is true, you are able to use military experience (aviation related) to count towards the experience requirements of FAR 65.77. As Joe in Stockbridge eluded to, it is still advisable to take some civilian training. The military does things completely differently. Sure, maintenance is maintenance but the rules and industry standards are vastly different. I feel there is much more responsibility in the civilian world as there are not so many safety mechanisms as there are in the military. For instance, there is no technical inspector that will look over my work and sign his/her name. That responsibility is up to me, as well as complying with all ADs, service bulletins and other requirements. I am also responsible for ordering and maintain inventory, taking care of HAZMAT, safety inspector, I am responsible for receiving all bulk fuel shipments, I am also the avionics shop, hydraulic/pneumatic shop as well as the engine shop and tool crib guy.
For those looking to join the guard, the LUH-72 program might be a smart move. It is a certificated aircraft so the A&P is required. The guard will pay for the tests although you will still need to meet the requirements of 65.77. You would be learning an airframe that has a direct civilian counterpart, the EC-145.
The military has its way of giving everyone a small slice of the pie. In many cases, in the civilian world, particularly in the rotorcraft arena, you are given the complete pie.
That being said, I love my job and wouldnt change it for anything even though it has a tendency to kick my ass once in awhile. This is a humbling and thankless career. [Website advertisement and URL removed by Indeed Moderator]

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MHayes in Jacksonville, Florida

5 months ago

NO! WARNING !
Stay away from the aerospace industry. Just check the job boards, if you don't have 3-5 years experience on a particular aircraft you just wasted 30k and 3 years on a useless trade school. They will always look for something to not pay you for. And IF you get in they will lay you off when ever they can. Then when you go back after 3 or more years they want to know if your license is VALID ! Huh ? STUPID PEOPLE DON"T EVEN KNOW WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT! They will treat you like you never put in 20,000 hours of training. It doesn't matter to them its never enough for the flatliners. Then they think you should know every system out there and if they have to train you then YOUR incompetent. gosh really save yourself the depression and the money you will be sorry unless your daddy owns the airline.

Expect HR depts who make you an offer then NEVER get back to you or respond to emails.
A&P's have been USED AND ABUSED by the industry for years and its getting worst - gone are the days of good pay and a decent job. now - NO RESPECT AT ALL. Turbine engine inspector makes 36k and the companies make billions. Its like a good old boys club on steroids. They want to pay you 15.00 an hour when you' re worth 50 - 100k. They think after a few years of being out of the trade or if you cross train to survive that you FORGOT what you learned! idiots.
Ask somebody who has a BS degree if their degree is still VALID. STAY AWAY. STAY AWAY if you can. SAVE YOUR MONEY Get a real education people will respect. Become a hedge fund manager and screw the world your better off.

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billyt in Charleston, South Carolina

2 months ago

aircraft maintenance has been an whirlwind ..i have lived in 8 states and 15 major cities in the last 8yrs....its horrible...unless you like hotel living and Styrofoam plates...ive been an A&P for 18yrs..ive got 8yrs on Gulfstream...airlines, corp., military..always the same outcome..

there are no rewards other than a 50hr check for a few months , then the lay off..... i am on top of my game...i have certs. and have much exp. in all fields but the outcome is always the same..

there is no representation or allegiance for aircraft workers.

i know and seen many who have been in the field for decades who still contract...i see them all over..it sucks and we are week to week....they try to become 'full time' employees but wind up on the lay off list....we have no rights

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