Why dont all of the Union Carpenters Stand together and make a change??

I am sad because we as many others are losing everything we own and having to let our children go without.Never ever did I think we would be in this situation.Since my husband became a journeyman carpenter few years ago,he has been finding it hard to find a union job.Now it has been a long time and I am losing hope.We have now exhausted all benefits
The food bank has closed,which saved us.I have a full time job,we did not elect ins cov from my job cause every cent I make goes to keeping our home, utilities, car.Food is now a luxury!! 26 appretice grads for June.Why? Where is the BROTHERHOOD? Make a change! Families are hungry and afraid!Can't this happen? PLEASE?? Begging for help for all of us that are truly suffering. I am proud of my husband being a Union Journeyman Carpenter. But if he would have been a police officer or fire fighter,his brothers at work would have shared jobs and made sure no one suffered. My tears fall for my husband, my 3 children, every union family that is suffering. Please someone, somewhere, do something. PLEASE!

Carp Wife, I agree completely. I myself do not understand why our district council continues to accept more and more apprentices. Why do they continue to allow the contractors to operate with such an imbalanced apprentice/journeyman ratio?? Also, why does our district council allows retirees to continue to work and accumulate a second pension when our 'manhours' are so extremely low?? Some may argue that you can't just change the rules, but they didn't have a problem with changing the rules and taking my wifes insurance away!! To save 'our brotherhood', the district council will have to start to focus on whats best for the majority, which I believe is to idle the apprenticeship program, stop GREEDY retirees from milking our manhours, and get focused on the JOURNEYMEN that they are loosing, who will not be around when the work picks back up. Now, you tell me...do you think the new apprentices and the worn out retirees will be able to continue the legacy of our brotherhood alone??? I doubt it.

Although you raised a good question on the apprentice situation your argument of greedy retirered carpenters is flawed.Since when were there any promises of fair treatment in life. I have been in the union 28 years and they never found me work once!I know this is terrible Im out of work also. the sad fact is they dont care about you personally they just need your membership/money.The only advice I have is to find another career.

The carpenter's union is run by people who've never worked even an hour in the field. It's always been that way. When we see 10 million illegals competing with us for jobs, they see 10 million more dues paying members.

In Chicago, business agents are appointed, not elected. They hold on to their jobs like the pope. I'm not going to speak for other trade unions, but the feds need to get involved with this.

F the union in Saint Charles, Illinois said: The carpenter's union is run by people who've never worked even an hour in the field. It's always been that way. When we see 10 million illegals competing with us for jobs, they see 10 million more dues paying members.

In Chicago, business agents are appointed, not elected. They hold on to their jobs like the pope. I'm not going to speak for other trade unions, but the feds need to get involved with this.

You are 100% right it is a scam. We cannot elect that is crazy why should we pay our dues if we have no say. Our union has become a big business in itself. the B.A. and others have no field experience they are pencil pushers who were brought on by dad or uncle or relative. They are too disconnected from the workers making over 100K a year and collecting two pensions. I'll be lucky to get One. I have been in the union for a while and they have never gotten me a job. I was supposed to go to a power house in our district and they sent others even travelers over me. Ha what a joke. Well good luck and God Bless Union brother local 916.ene

Besides hating women what else is wrong with the carpenter's union?

besides hating women what else is wrong with the carpenter's union?

Sad Union Carpters Wife in Saint Louis, Missouri said: I am sad because we as many others are losing everything we own and having to let our children go without.Never ever did I think we would be in this situation.Since my husband became a journeyman carpenter few years ago,he has been finding it hard to find a union job.Now it has been a long time and I am losing hope.We have now exhausted all benefits
The food bank has closed,which saved us.I have a full time job,we did not elect ins cov from my job cause every cent I make goes to keeping our home, utilities, car.Food is now a luxury!! 26 appretice grads for June.Why? Where is the BROTHERHOOD? Make a change! Families are hungry and afraid!Can't this happen? PLEASE?? Begging for help for all of us that are truly suffering. I am proud of my husband being a Union Journeyman Carpenter. But if he would have been a police officer or fire fighter,his brothers at work would have shared jobs and made sure no one suffered. My tears fall for my husband, my 3 children, every union family that is suffering. Please someone, somewhere, do something. PLEASE!

Unfortunately carpenters are taking any work they can union or not. Its a sink or swim thing. As for the carpenters union its not what you know, its who you blow. As my union dues were getting behind I was called several times to get them paid without having any chance of being put on a job anytime soon. I suggest, if you want a strong union? Sign on with the electricians. They have a great union !!! and always seem to have work.

Sad Union Carpters Wife in Saint Louis, Missouri said:
I am with you all the way my husband too has been out of work going on 2 years. I see all these new apprentice coming in and they are getting work but husband is a journeyman and can't even get a call because the pay scale is to high. This is cramp he is on his last week of benefits and we don't know what to do. Since he got laid off before Sept 2008 we could not get the reduced cobra insurance, we had to go without because we had to eat. I too have lost hope.
We have lost everything. We lost our house and I was really upset when the carpenters hall decided not to do the food pantry anymore...One of the guys I talked to that work at the food pantry said they were shutting down because there was not enough need for it. Now that is cramp. Look at the unemployment rate, the carpenters are hurting and the union does nothing. I really feel for my husband,it has been hard on him because he has always supported us well...but now we have to pinch every penny. We now have nothing to fall back on when times get tough like this because we now have to start from nothing again. I just really hope things change around soon for the sake of our children. I just want to say to all carpenters and their families that you are not the only one...we are all going through this and it hurts...it hurts bad when things you worked so hard for are taken awaysbecause of nothing you did but because of what our economy has done to us.

Our country is in the worst depression in years!!Union brothers are suffering, but I don't here any new ideas.Everyone is sitting and waiting. As a brotherhood we need to pull together and create new ideas. How about spreading the work around!! Hopefully someone will stand up and make a difference!! Why should one group take the brunt of the hard times.
A union carpenter from Philadelphia thats lost his health coverage ,and is losing his home. (I've been out of work for 14 months)

here in kc we got a 4 year contract at $1.50 a year.why? we are in the worst recession sence the depression & we get a raise!WTF!are they(the union)trying to bankrupt the whole system or what,cause i know a lot people out of work and a lot of the company's are hurting too.with out co.we don't get jobs!union shops getting bids beat out even on prevailing wage jobs,really really bad.this sucks.what do i do?stay in a corrupt,greedy,selfish,dictatorship union or feed my family,nonunion's got all the work around here,and getting more of it,they love that we got a raise!i feel bad for everyone on here,makes me want to cry(i'm very empathetic)it's just sad to see our careers go to hell for $12.00 an hour.i agree with everyone on here.we need to take OUR union back,but what do you do,to do that?anyway thanx for listening,laidoff again.

The statement it's not what you know,it's who you blow is absolutely correct. I am/was a 3rd year apprentice and it doesn't matter. I was kicked off a job simply because I literally lived on the wrong side of the street! It is all political BS. Whatever skills you learned as a union carpenter are truly going to be put to the test now.

The reason why apprentices are hired is because the contractors make more money on an apprentice,they charge the same rate as a journyman. The union sucks,all they are is a bunch of greedy oganized crime figures.Ed Coryell's son came in as an apprentice, now he is on the councel,what is that? you need to be a real ass kisser to get anywear in the union.It's not what you know it's who you know. I was one of the best carpenters in the city,there was a waiting list on jobs for me.Now that I suffer form multipal sclrosis i can't work anymore and they denied me healh benifits cause you need 15 years of service and I only had 14 years 9 months.My wife is also diabled and e went through all our savings for health reasons.What now? The union is a bunch of rotten self contained basterds. And as far as the goverment go's is anouther joke.May they all rot in HELL.

Sad Union Carpters Wife in Saint Louis, Missouri said: I am sad because we as many others are losing everything we own and having to let our children go without.Never ever did I think we would be in this situation.Since my husband became a journeyman carpenter few years ago,he has been finding it hard to find a union job.Now it has been a long time and I am losing hope.We have now exhausted all benefits
The food bank has closed,which saved us.I have a full time job,we did not elect ins cov from my job cause every cent I make goes to keeping our home, utilities, car.Food is now a luxury!! 26 appretice grads for June.Why? Where is the BROTHERHOOD? Make a change! Families are hungry and afraid!Can't this happen? PLEASE?? Begging for help for all of us that are truly suffering. I am proud of my husband being a Union Journeyman Carpenter. But if he would have been a police officer or fire fighter,his brothers at work would have shared jobs and made sure no one suffered. My tears fall for my husband, my 3 children, every union family that is suffering. Please someone, somewhere, do something. PLEASE!

to me they need to put a freeze on new people coming into the apprentice program.You tell me how a person can be on the out of work list at number 2 for over a year and a half.I am about ready to go stand in front of my local with some kind of a protest sign telling other people about how the union will screw you so bad.Behind on my union dues but they still send me letters that i am behind then also charge you a five dollar fee to let you knowso i think people out of work need to stand in front of their local with some kind of apicket sign. Like an old man told me the only thing a union is good for is keeping quality workers out of a job which i would have listen to him

GREED!!!! You said it all brother. I know of some retirees that are working on a 3rd retirement. Come on is that what we are is work until we all die? I would hope for a break in commercial sometime soon. Thanks to our wonderful economy and leaders i dont see it happening. My only thought of being off for over 18 months is to travel somewhere else. Atleast thats what ive been told, unfortunately im married and have a family. Who really wants to boom out. I have seriously considered dropping out of this lame union and start a business myself. Atleast i know where my money is going and coming from. Im looking for unions to drop off all together thanks to everything the CJAP has done, nelson, and everyone else that is reaping our benefits. Lets focus on the journeymen carpenters to find work, how bout it BA's. Ive been hoping one day theyll actually do there job right and ill hear a phone call asking me to go to work. Havent heard that in over 10 years though. They sure can give our work away though, they have that down.........................................

I can't believe the comments Nelson made to the Illinois Bussiness Journal....he said in the article that st louis union workers are unproductive and overpriced and thats why noone is building here. And we pay him over $200,000 a year to represent us??? What a crock of sh1t

I think they should close the apprentice school. We don't need new
apprentices taking away journeymens jobs. They only keep it open so
the lazy teachers can keep a job instead of being out on the field
and working their butt off like a real carpenter. I agree with others out there that think the only way you can get ahead is to kiss someone butt. My husband has been out of work for almost two
years and he can't find any work. We have two girls in college and they can't even get any help to pay for school. I am working two jobs to try to pay the bills. Now they will have big student loans
because the government won't help with any grant money except
1300 a semester. That barely covers books. All they do is give money to the UnAmerican people. That sucks big time. You have to be from another country to get free scholarships. That is really a
backwards system.

Carp in STL in Saint Louis, Missouri said: Carp Wife, I agree completely. I myself do not understand why our district council continues to accept more and more apprentices. Why do they continue to allow the contractors to operate with such an imbalanced apprentice/journeyman ratio?? Also, why does our district council allows retirees to continue to work and accumulate a second pension when our 'manhours' are so extremely low?? Some may argue that you can't just change the rules, but they didn't have a problem with changing the rules and taking my wifes insurance away!! To save 'our brotherhood', the district council will have to start to focus on whats best for the majority, which I believe is to idle the apprenticeship program, stop GREEDY retirees from milking our manhours, and get focused on the JOURNEYMEN that they are loosing, who will not be around when the work picks back up. Now, you tell me...do you think the new apprentices and the worn out retirees will be able to continue the legacy of our brotherhood alone??? I doubt it.

I am a female apprentice out of work so its not just the journeyman believe me everyone is hurting

My Husband has worked as a union carpenter for over 30 years. I along with many on here NEVER thought he would have to look for a job. He never had any time off in the 30 years. He now has only worked about 6 months in the past 2 years. I think having people appointed and not voted on by the brotherhood is CRAZY! Our son is an apprentice electrician and we have a foot in both doors. Folks I don't know the answer but I can say what is going on is not GOOD!
We are having to pay for our insurance. My husband has enough years in to retire but is not old enough. he has a little over a year to go. The bad things is he has to work so many hours before he can collect 2 years prior. Well guess what he is screwed!He is smart talented and good at what he does!
As for the capernters starting the electrician union of their own? This is hurting our son and taking money from my husband as well.
I am so sorry to all of you that have lost your homes. I work 3 jobs to keep us going. I wish you all the best of luck and pray for you all.
I may just attend the rally this Tuesday in Forest Park to hear what al the union workers plan on doing???

GUESS WHAT? Did you know that out of the 20,000 journeyman carpenters in St. Louis Mo. only 2,500 are out of work?????????????
That was per Dave at the central dues collection office of the District Council of the United Brotherhood of carpenters. If you hear the apprentice school is closed do not get too excited they only closed the school for ONE month. So if any of the 17,500 journeyman carpenters working in St Louis know of any jobs available please let me know. I was the one that wrote in 9months ago and started this forum. My husband who is/was a union journeyman carpenter is still out of journeyman union carpenter work. I will be looking forward to hearing from the 17,500 union carpenters employed in St Louis at this time, I am sure you will not let us down. Thanks.

What information does anyone have concerning the ralley at Forest Park by the Union Workers Across St Louis? What is it about? Who is in charge? What time does it start? ****Called the Union District council office and amazingly enough none of the "big guys" are out of town, so they would not or could not give me any information. Let me know.........thanks!

What information does anyone have concerning the ralley at Forest Park by the Union Workers Across St Louis? What is it about? Who is in charge? What time does it start? ****Called the Union District council office and amazingly enough none of the "big guys" are out of town, so they would not or could not give me any information. I heard it was tomorrow TUESDAY 6/15/2010. Please let me know. Thank You.

Tuesday June 15th at the World's Fair Pavilion Forest Park starting at 5:00 p.m. Shuttle buses will start at 3:00 p.m. running from thhe upper and lower Muny parking lot. Bring lawn chair.
Mark Ayres president of the National Building and Construction Trades and IBEW International President Ed Hill along with many other national labor leaders will be there and will speak at the
"Building Trades Unity Rally".
The letter said "they will address the inexcusable and intolerable tactics used by the carpenters against the IBEW and other unions"
Mr. Nelson said some things that were in the labor tribune and st. Louis paper that have several people upset.
I'm guessing the Carpenter big shots were not invited.
They are expecting a large crowd.

SAS in Wood River, Illinois said: Tuesday June 15th at the World's Fair Pavilion Forest Park starting at 5:00 p.m. Shuttle buses will start at 3:00 p.m. running from thhe upper and lower Muny parking lot. Bring lawn chair.
Mark Ayres president of the National Building and Construction Trades and IBEW International President Ed Hill along with many other national labor leaders will be there and will speak at the
"Building Trades Unity Rally".
The letter said "they will address the inexcusable and intolerable tactics used by the carpenters against the IBEW and other unions"
Mr. Nelson said some things that were in the labor tribune and st. Louis paper that have several people upset.
I'm guessing the Carpenter big shots were not invited.
They are expecting a large crowd.

WOW!!! Too bad I didn't hear about this sooner. I would of come and I'm from Detroit. Over 20 years in the Union and no one in the local gives a damn about Journeyman,yet our school still runs at full speed for Apprentices.

I am a union carp and I just got out of my time and the only way that I have gotten any hours is by yes kissing butt by doing Pickett lines. I live in the burbs and have drive into the city and pay for gas and parking to get a few hours down the center it is all a bunch of crap we all see our BA's guys working and not having to do the lines it is indeed bull. And every meeting I go to all I hear is oh just wait brother it's gonna get better it will come back just as big as before. Well I've been waiting for almost 2 years to work steady and about to lose my unemployment so someone please let me know what I should do. I can't quit cause I'll have to pay back the grant for school I'm in a no win situation.

Work right now is really BAD! We have never seen it like this. A company that my husband started out with 30 years ago normally has 300 people working they are down to 14! My son is an electrician and 800 journey men are sitting. I don't have any answers for you, but I wish you the best of luck! We to hope that things turn around SOON!

Fpchas in Bensalem, Pennsylvania said: I am a union carp and I just got out of my time and the only way that I have gotten any hours is by yes kissing butt by doing Pickett lines. I live in the burbs and have drive into the city and pay for gas and parking to get a few hours down the center it is all a bunch of crap we all see our BA's guys working and not having to do the lines it is indeed bull. And every meeting I go to all I hear is oh just wait brother it's gonna get better it will come back just as big as before. Well I've been waiting for almost 2 years to work steady and about to lose my unemployment so someone please let me know what I should do. I can't quit cause I'll have to pay back the grant for school I'm in a no win situation.

I feel the same way! Im a union carp. in Philla. but live in Reading. I found a way to make another income stream aside of carpentry. It helps me if you're interested let me know!?

Ryan in Reading, Pennsylvania said: I feel the same way! Im a union carp. in Philla. but live in Reading. I found a way to make another income stream aside of carpentry. It helps me if you're interested let me know!?

Hey Philly carpenter 7 yrs and been out 5 months and does not look like i am getting back soon. So could you share your ideas?

Fpchas in Bensalem, Pennsylvania said: I am a union carp and I just got out of my time and the only way that I have gotten any hours is by yes kissing butt by doing Pickett lines. I live in the burbs and have drive into the city and pay for gas and parking to get a few hours down the center it is all a bunch of crap we all see our BA's guys working and not having to do the lines it is indeed bull. And every meeting I go to all I hear is oh just wait brother it's gonna get better it will come back just as big as before. Well I've been waiting for almost 2 years to work steady and about to lose my unemployment so someone please let me know what I should do. I can't quit cause I'll have to pay back the grant for school I'm in a no win situation.

you dont have to pay that back, they can't get back what you dont have, I am a Union Carpenter and i graduated in 2009, I may know you. There's a clause in that contract. Only if you go into a non-union contractor, or become a contractor and do not employ union labor do you pay that grant back. Otherwise, if they can not provide you the necessary work you need to survive, and you go into another field, your in the clear. When you get another job, KEEP YOUR BOOK!. It's cheap enough. Whatever your dues are for the next 5 years (The remaining years on your contract) beats paying back the $28,000 you would owe if you screw over the Union. I taled to Gerry Coghlin and Mike Griffin, they are very understanding. I havn't been working steady for 2 years. I am taking a CDL course. I am planning on becoming a driver for the state. When I become a Union Teamster, I will keep my Union Carpenter card also and one Day I will be more Valuable to a company then anyone!

Good post to this problem, Vince. But you missed on one important problem. JOBS JOBS JOBS!!!! The UNion can say all the things it wants about "Don't worry things will get better".
Sure, an Apprentice or just in Journeyman may get work but wait till your 50yrs old they leave you twistin' in the wind.

Until the union or U.S. gov't gets this immegration problem solved
(which looks like not very soon) you younger guys have a long road ahead of you. Here in Detroit, younger guys have to work till age 60 or have 85 points to qualify for full pension. Good luck!!!

Crowbar53 in Clinton Township, Michigan said: Good post to this problem, Vince. But you missed on one important problem. JOBS JOBS JOBS!!!! The UNion can say all the things it wants about "Don't worry things will get better".
Sure, an Apprentice or just in Journeyman may get work but wait till your 50yrs old they leave you twistin' in the wind.

Until the union or U.S. gov't gets this immegration problem solved
(which looks like not very soon) you younger guys have a long road ahead of you. Here in Detroit, younger guys have to work till age 60 or have 85 points to qualify for full pension. Good luck!!!

i worked with a guy from detroit, he worked for WOODS CONSTRUCTION, and traveled for them, he told me about many cut backs and stuff, even heading home to a lay-off check himself! I wish all of my brothers from Detroit the recovery you deserve. I understand there are no jobs, and that no matter what the union leaders tell us, they are still getting paychecks where as we are not. but i honestly trust them when they tell me they are trying. I have to, and I have to do what i have to do to survive, just like you do and fpchas does. i aint a business savy guy, in my neighborhood it's always been a clutch and gas and break pedal, hard hat and hammer or gun and a badge, and i like to build buidings. to me this isnt a job, its what makes me happy. I sere my Union Leaders work hard because they are right by my side when we Hand bill, Picket, Petition Senators to pass pro-labor bills that benifit the union. I just sent out 14 letters to News stations, poloticians, and even President Obama and Vice President Biden about a company we know uses illegals. i will post my letter which includes a youtube video link i encourage all of you to watch to show what my Local President is doing to help us here in Philly. we can't break under this pressure. its just a test of character. go out, find the side work, find jobs you can do in the meantime, and keep fightin

This is the first half of it...
To Whom it may concern:

I recently viewed a video on Youtube.com of a job site in Abington PA where a worker admitted to working in this country illegally. You can view this too. Just go to Youtube.com and search under the title Presby Inspired Living. I find the title very ironic. This is certainly not inspired living in my eyes!

In this video, Forcine Concrete employs these illegal workers, and one worker even admits Forcine provided him with a FAKE TAX I.D. NUMBER. I am no legal expert, but that sounds like FRAUD to me. I am also sure that many more laws are being broken here. I am a Carpenter by trade, and I have worked very infrequently over the last two years. Two years ago I was at the age of 23, and at the top of my game. I was ready to become a first time home owner when I heard that my company was going to begin layoffs. I stopped looking to buy a home, and figured that when worked picked up a little bit I would look to buy again. That never happened! I am now 25 and dying to leave my parents home and get out on my own. Many people I know are in similar situations and now we have companies like Forcine keeping me and many other LEGAL tradesman out of work, and in serious doubt about when their next paycheck will come in. This is not the America I believed in once upon a time! It is not right at all. We all deserve the right to work and have a stable life, and Forcine and greedy companies like it, have taken that away from me and MILLIONS of Americans like me!

Please, I beg you, make this company pay. Send the people who know about and participate in these practices to jail, and make an example of them! Don’t let them get away with this! Too often big money gets away with these practices, and it’s big money and greed that made this country what it is today. More than just a recession, for the middle class and people below the poverty line, this may as well be another Great Depression!

(second half)
This Letter is the only way I know how to be heard, and I will stand by whomever responds to it. You want me to Campaign, make phone calls, go door to door, or just go back to work and pay my taxes Honestly, with Integrity, and Proudly as an American Citizen then that’s what I will do! I am tired of going job site to job site, taking placement tests, training courses, going through background checks, getting certificates and licenses, and paying good money for all that stuff; then being told that I am not getting the positions I worked so hard to get. After all that, I see illegal workers every day round up outside the Local Home Depot taking MY JOB and working for these Fat Rat Companies like Forcine! There actually is a shed outside there they hang out to beat the heat while they wait for contractors to pick them up.

I feel America needs to crack down on these companies as soon as possible, for when they fall, the good name of out tradesmen and tradeswomen will be saved! When our American Citizens are put back to work, the country will prosper once again. This country was BUILT on the backs of our hard working trades people. It is time we took back what’s ours… OUR LIVELYHOOD. That’s exactly what my job was to me, and that’s exactly what these jobs are to every person who ever swung a hammer, laid a pipe, poured the concrete, secured in place a steel beam, supplied ventilation ducts, or wired up a building.

Thank You for reading this,
Vincent N. Esposito

Do union carpenters sit around all day complaining that there is no work on the computer?

Statement:There is no work on the computer.

jpkemery421@gmail.com in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania said: Our country is in the worst depression in years!!Union brothers are suffering, but I don't here any new ideas.Everyone is sitting and waiting. As a brotherhood we need to pull together and create new ideas. How about spreading the work around!! Hopefully someone will stand up and make a difference!! Why should one group take the brunt of the hard times.
A union carpenter from Philadelphia thats lost his health coverage ,and is losing his home. (I've been out of work for 14 months)

what the union needs to do is stop acting like these companies aren't bringing in MEXICANS, TAKING OUR WORK, @ SOME POINT I THINK THEY ARE GETTING SOME TYPE OF KICK BACK & NOT LETTING THE UNION MEMBERS KNOW ABOUT IT.AT THE SAME TIME FOR ALL OF THOSE WHO ARE OUT OF WORK OR WORKING FOR THAT MATTER UNION DUES & CHECK OFF DUES ARE STILL THE SAME & THE ONLY THING THEY HAVE TO OFFER US NOW IS THE FILTHY WORK IN HOUSING AUTHORITY FOR 10 OR 12 DOLLARS UNDER THE RESIDENTIAL RATE A CARPENTER SUPPOSE TO MAKE,AND BY THE WAY THEY DONT EVEN PAY YOU FOR YOUR OVER TIME THE FOLLOWING WEEK AND NOBODY IS SAYING ANYTHING ABOUT IT

Carpenter105454 in Taunton, Massachusetts said: Do union carpenters sit around all day complaining that there is no work on the computer?

Statement:There is no work on the computer.

i know one thing, i check this blog every so often, but i can tell u this, i sure as hell aint on the computer complaining all day, I test for my CDL this thursday, go from jobsite to jobsite, send out resumes and applications. i want a job more than anything right now. just like all these. alot of jobs these days, outside of the field u need to fill out online resumes, thats what im doing

have you all lost your nerve? forget what the "Brotherhood" means? you need to speak out against the corruption & lies. afraid of the bus. reps. intimidation? you are not alone,brother,do something! get a few of your brothers together,couple bucks each(for gas)then follow the bus. rep.---all day. he won't like it,but remember,he works for you. remind him of that fact when you tell him you'll see him the next day also. now that he really doesn't like it here comes his intimidation, good you have a fellow carpenter or two to witness what he says & back you up. still nervous? well,when i lost everything and had nothing left to lose,that made me the most dangerous son-of-a-$#@%* he knew. many other things you can do,use your imagination! flood district council with letters(they work for you also,remind them),set up phone or e-mail network with other carps. to trade info.(report on daily activities of b.a.&org.) go hang around the hall,ask questions,irritate someone. show up on picket lines(good for info) MOST IMPORTANT****EDUCATE YOURSELVES!!! read--memerize the constitution/bylaws, know your rights & responsabilities--know when you are being lied to! SPEAK OUT. i know it sounds easier than it really is,i'm living it also-2 positions on exec. board & froze out because i spoke up against the good ol' boy network. just wanted things fair and honest in the local-of-make-believe. not a 1 day job in 15 months? what have i got to lose? how about you?

have you all lost your nerve? forget what the "Brotherhood" means? you need to speak out against the corruption & lies. afraid of the bus. reps. intimidation? you are not alone,brother,do something! get a few of your brothers together,couple bucks each(for gas)then follow the bus. rep.---all day. he won't like it,but remember,he works for you. remind him of that fact when you tell him you'll see him the next day also. now that he really doesn't like it here comes his intimidation, good you have a fellow carpenter or two to witness what he says & back you up. still nervous? well,when i lost everything and had nothing left to lose,that made me the most dangerous son-of-a-$#@%* he knew. many other things you can do,use your imagination! flood district council with letters(they work for you also,remind them),set up phone or e-mail network with other carps. to trade info.(report on daily activities of b.a.&org.) go hang around the hall,ask questions,irritate someone. show up on picket lines(good for info) MOST IMPORTANT****EDUCATE YOURSELVES!!! read--memerize the constitution/bylaws, know your rights & responsabilities--know when you are being lied to! SPEAK OUT. i know it sounds easier than it really is,i'm living it also-2 positions on exec. board & froze out because i spoke up against the good ol' boy network. just wanted things fair and honest in the local-of-make-believe. not a 1 day job in 15 months? what have i got to lose? how about you?

How about the BA's taking a pay cut, the more work they get us, the more they make. I am sick of the brotherhood reaching in my pockets all the time, welfare benefits are better and we all better forget about a pension!

Vince E in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania said: i worked with a guy from detroit, he worked for WOODS CONSTRUCTION, and traveled for them, he told me about many cut backs and stuff, even heading home to a lay-off check himself! I wish all of my brothers from Detroit the recovery you deserve. I understand there are no jobs, and that no matter what the union leaders tell us, they are still getting paychecks where as we are not. but i honestly trust them when they tell me they are trying. I have to, and I have to do what i have to do to survive, just like you do and fpchas does. i aint a business savy guy, in my neighborhood it's always been a clutch and gas and break pedal, hard hat and hammer or gun and a badge, and i like to build buidings. to me this isnt a job, its what makes me happy. I sere my Union Leaders work hard because they are right by my side when we Hand bill, Picket, Petition Senators to pass pro-labor bills that benifit the union. I just sent out 14 letters to News stations, poloticians, and even President Obama and Vice President Biden about a company we know uses illegals. i will post my letter which includes a youtube video link i encourage all of you to watch to show what my Local President is doing to help us here in Philly. we can't break under this pressure. its just a test of character. go out, find the side work, find jobs you can do in the meantime, and keep fightin

I cannot believe you are buying their propaganda. Less work, they take more out of our benefits so their standard of living is not affected!

We do not work for the Union Councils, they work for us! We need to stand up together and force them to make change. I guess most have not figured out the union works on fear and intimidation, just like the mob. I urge all of you to tell your leaders to start getting us work or else we will demand Federal Investigations into their activities. How do you like that Boyce and Coryell? The carpenters need to take lessons from the other unions; how to look out for each other, protect your work and a real book that you sign for work! But then again Colin Powell says it's okay to hire illegals to work on his house, they do the work no Americans want to do. Mr. Powell, we have a skill so why should we work for $5 dollars an hour? You like most people have the impression that if you work with your hands you are too stupid to get a real job. I guess we are stupid because the majority of us are honest and hard working. Maybe it's time for a lawsuit against the union leaders for breaking the contract we signed when we joined. They have a responsibility to provide work, not tell us about how much the union is hurting!

Sad Union Carpters Wife in Saint Louis, Missouri said: I am sad because we as many others are losing everything we own and having to let our children go without.Never ever did I think we would be in this situation.Since my husband became a journeyman carpenter few years ago,he has been finding it hard to find a union job.Now it has been a long time and I am losing hope.We have now exhausted all benefits
The food bank has closed,which saved us.I have a full time job,we did not elect ins cov from my job cause every cent I make goes to keeping our home, utilities, car.Food is now a luxury!! 26 appretice grads for June.Why? Where is the BROTHERHOOD? Make a change! Families are hungry and afraid!Can't this happen? PLEASE?? Begging for help for all of us that are truly suffering. I am proud of my husband being a Union Journeyman Carpenter. But if he would have been a police officer or fire fighter,his brothers at work would have shared jobs and made sure no one suffered. My tears fall for my husband, my 3 children, every union family that is suffering. Please someone, somewhere, do something. PLEASE!

look im sorry to say it but the union dont care about whats going on .not one b.a in indiana cares about any of his brothers or sisters, the only thing they care about is there friends . and collecting there pay check and a b.a. makes good money. and its there 52 weeks out of the year, but they will still kick you out of the union if you dont pay . they dont give a care whos kids cant eat, there kids get the best because we pay our dues . and they just set back and collect. and of course they do nothing but put people down for trying to find work other ways . the union is a money pit for those they get to beleive they care . i know some b.a.s and there doing very well in indiana . and in indiana if you find something built wrong and the foreman is the b.a.s friend your done . they cant have any of there friends being told they cant do the job right.

Ooh no,now we are calling our leaders out by name? well when you have nothing to lose? why not? if you feel there is a problem,remember you are bound by the constitution to report a criminal offense to law enforcement authorities.(sect.53-J)(pg.76).and this may help you also--OFFICE of LABOR MANAGEMENT STANDARDS(OLMS) 170 South Independance Mall, Phila.
or everyones favorite red tape tangle-the Attorney General office. a little hint,have some facts/info prepared for a complaint so they will hopefully take you seriously.---now for a simple response to the carpenter who wants our leaders to learn from other unions. i agree,but first the rank-and-file members need to look in the mirror. we can't stick together with all the backstabbing going on. when we can manage to get along like we should, all the corrupt leaders will make a run for it. we need to stand together,ORGANIZE THE ORGANIZED! if you need a few pointers- pick up a book by Saul Alinsky(look up on ebay or amazon) a union leader(E.S.T.)said recently in the last 6 mos. that "we are at the mercy of the contractor"-are you kidding me? i belong to the union so i'm not at the mercy of a contractor. lost my faith in you right then and there,Uncle Eddy.(not really my uncle,just a pet name for EST of MRC)

The thing is our union has gotten away from us. Where is the democracy? There are the carpenters who do the work and there are the other guys who drive around in crown vics. Who earns the money that keeps the union alive?....the carpenters do. Who earns the money that fills the pension fund?.... the carpenters do. Who comes up short when the union invests the pension money ($40 million?) in crappy investments like the Philly newspapers?...carpenters do. Assuming there is any work, who sits home waiting on the fulfillment of hollow job promises while the half rate carpenters get to work on union jobs?...carpenters do. Now more than ever carpenters need to stick together and protect their organiztion. It starts with good communication. Meet>discuss>vote>act.

He who can't hear must feel. So show them your serious about your convictions and make then feel your pain in their pocket book or BOHICA. How could this be achieved ? One way would be to set forth a Date and time on this website then when the numbers are strong enough and everyone is on the same page.Every Union Member on the same day sends a letter and an e-mail to Every member in the committee in their local and in their Region from the top down to the B.A's to let them know were organized.This would cost less to do then paying your dues. Let them know That we will not pay our dues till these issues are resolved. I don't know about your region but mine has 65,000 Plus carpenters and I would say close to half of those are Window E (out of work)right now.I see Pennsylvania, Indiana, New Jersey,Massachusetts, Illinois, Michigan,Maryland, Missouri,California. I know Southern California, Las Vegas and New Mexico Arizona are in the south-west region. I am not sure how many Regions their are but if we all get on the same page and send letters and e-mails on the same day and flood their posh cushy desk jobs. Telling them they have till the end of the month or were taking away their allowance we give them every month "our dues". If you are working now and a true Brother you would let your dues slide that month or so to help your struggling brothers It should not hurt your standing I have done it for before. Believe me $20 dues times 65,000 carpenters(1 region) =$13,00000 a month they would be loosing Im sure they would want to resolve the issue within a few months since they have loans and pensions to pay etc.. It is Halloween 2010 right now leave a message with your support that you will check back here on Nov 31 one month from now and tell a few of your working brothers to do the same. I know some of you old timers have a black book that can choke a cow get them on here. Get on the same page then react as one come on people step by step!

If Every one of you who were shaken up enough to come to this kind of website and take it as far as posting on here were to take it one step further and get a letter together buy a bream of paper at staples. Then take them down to your local and every other local within driving distance of you. Give them to every carpenter that goes into the local for the out of work list and the apprentices in school that are out of work and tell them to check out this Web link maybe we could get the numbers required to make a difference. If anyone has any other ideas feel free to help. If we could get 10% to 30% of our Regions to partake in this Im sure they would have to listen to and respect the ones who are actually doing the work "US". Thats 7.5 carpenters out of every 15 carpenters at 30%. So go tell 15 union carpenters to show their support by posting on this thread by Nov 31 2010 and by then maybe a few of you guys or your wife's can come up with a few Nation Wide letters and post it on here so that we can all choose the best one and send it to members of our commitee's when we decide on what Future date we will all send the letter at once to these crooks and start to take our union back. I know that Commercial work can not be done without plumber & Pipe fitters,electrocutions,Iron workers,Elevator Union etc.. but we all need to clean up our own backyards first step by step. Again if some of you could share your wisdom in a letter to Our Local's,Our Regions and the brotherhood as a whole we might have a fighting chance. If not then don't expect the ones in power to look out for your best intrests. They have proven time and time again their greedy. Don't ever forget that you do not have a boss you are a Union Carpenter. You don't work for The General your just a body to them.You don't work for the Sub your just a body to him and will be let go The second the forman's cousin needs a job. The Local works for you because you pay their Salery out of your dues and package.

I'm a bit concerned about all the widespread union layoffs taking place. My son in law is a union carpeneter here in NJ. He's been laid off for a good 18 mths. Sure they bring him back in here and there for a week or 2, but nothing staeday. they have 5 kids. He's now talking about moving to Indianna to find work. said he talked to ba in Indianna and the guy said they have staedy work and no one's been laid off yet. Is this gut just blowing smoke up my son in laws chimney or what? Thanks for any info

you cant buy a job here right now , its always slow in indy in the winter,spring,fall, well in fact there always slow here. indiana is not a good choice. ive seen people get laid off everyday at most jobs . or they bring in the carpenters to do the layout and then they lay them off and have labors do the job ,indiana is known well for letting labors do carpenters work the b.a.s wont even go check on jobs here. its a shame that this has gotten the way it is . ive never even seen a b.a. on a job in indiana sad but true

Look The fact's are a B.A. can't do anything for you really they are B/S artist. Their job is to blow smoke up your A$$ and keep you paying your dues. When I started out I can't tell you how many times I was promised a job by a B/A if I could just hold on two weeks. The Union was a good thing 30 years ago when you could get on with a Sub-contractor or General and stay with the same Company for 30 years and pension out. I was with 7 company's in the last two years and it was not because my skills were not there.

Now a days the general contractors and sub's are bidding so low just to get the jobs that when they start the job they are already behind due dates and over budget. No B/S my last job was 6 months behind schedule before we even stepped foot on the site. That forces the sub's to hire low period apprentices and cycle through tired journeymen Carpenters just to keep fast moving fresh carpenters on the job, and to top it off they expect you to finish a 10 hr project in 5 hours because that's what they bid it for. That forces Us to cut corners and skip steps, and you know what that brings. The amarican way and drean is gone , Let me say that again so there is no mincing of words. THE AMERICAN WAY AND DREAM IS GONE. Can we revert the current trend Maybe but are you willing to wait it out and do what needs to be done in order to accomplish that task from start to finish.

Look the Residential market crashed in 2008 forcing the commercial market to crash shortly after (what we are in now). That spooked the banks that will not lend money to general and sub-Contractor's. This slump will not rebound for a minimum of 3 years from now up till 7 to 10 years and we will never see the 1993 to 2008 boom we saw for at least another 10 years if ever . We could Rally and come together but that will do nothing because the jobs are not there for the amount of workers anyway. The only way the Union will rebound is if they trim the fat, Meaning

we need more people like you in the union thanks