Chiropractor VS. Spa - Which do you work at and why?

I've taken my time and interviewed with spas and doctor's offices alike. I'm looking to work part-time but wanted to know on an average (if you work for either a doc's office or spa) what you made first starting out.

LMT_in_Tx in Texas said: I've taken my time and interviewed with spas and doctor's offices alike. I'm looking to work part-time but wanted to know on an average (if you work for either a doc's office or spa) what you made first starting out.

Well, unfortunately, I started out at Massage Envy, which, can get you REALLY hurt becoming a full time MT! (25 hrs a week) .... Anyway, since I started working at a spa, I have been able to make some good money. My advice to you is to watch your money closely, as some days are better than others for work!! And Chiropractors are good too!! In fact, I work in both places! Where in TX are you? I may be able to point you in the direction of some good connections!! Take care, and welcome to the MT family!!

Daizeenah in Pasadena, Texas said: Well, unfortunately, I started out at Massage Envy, which, can get you REALLY hurt becoming a full time MT! (25 hrs a week) .... Anyway, since I started working at a spa, I have been able to make some good money. My advice to you is to watch your money closely, as some days are better than others for work!! And Chiropractors are good too!! In fact, I work in both places! Where in TX are you? I may be able to point you in the direction of some good connections!! Take care, and welcome to the MT family!!

I'm in Dallas and the spas seem to be offering the same. Well, I actually interviewed with a high end spa and they were offering $10 per hour w/hours like Th, F (10 - 7), S (9 - 7), and there would be a 6% product charge added to my paycheck, and then after 3 months it would be 50% commission. Perks, at cost products and free haircuts/facials, etc. Oh and when I wasn't doing massages I was to give free foot rubs to waiting clients.

I've interviewed with several doctors for weeks and they seem to all be doing something called a "rub club" - one doctor was giving out "free massage" tickets and said I wouldn't get paid for them (WHAT?) But that it would be an incentive for that client to come back to me. Yea, I know, I wanted to tell him off. He was offering $10 per massage (whether hour or half). Several other doctors are doing this and even charging rent in addition. Other doctors offered the same but tweaked it a little.

Out of the rediculous offers and what not, I ended up meeting a GREAT doctor. They offered the best pay (with increase) & hours, perks (free chiropractic care), plus during the meeting they kept emphasising that they want me to take care of myself- they just really seemed to care.

HELLO EVERYONE, I'M IN CALIFORNIA AND I JUST COMPLETED A NINE-MONTH MASSAGE THERAPY PROGRAM AND I FEEL AS IF I DON'T KNOW WHICH DIRECTION TO GO.....I STILL NEED MY LICENSE FOR L.A CITY WHICH NOW COSTS ABOUT $400(I AM WORKING ON GATHERING THE $$$ DUE TO ONLY WORKING PART-TIME)DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY ADVICE ???? i REALLY WOULD LOVE TO WORK IN AN ENVIRONMENT WHERE I KNOW I AM HELPING PEOPLE AND HAVE A PURPOSE

Ask employers to pay you what you need to make a comfortable living. But be prepared to tell them what you are going to do for them! How will you get and retain clients? How will your work make a difference to their business?

So many people just get jobs thinking that they won't have to do anything.

Let them know you are motivated and want to be partners in this making decisions about everything.

thebodyworker.com/massage_therapy_job_center.htm

Michelle in North Hollywood, California said: HELLO EVERYONE, I'M IN CALIFORNIA AND I JUST COMPLETED A NINE-MONTH MASSAGE THERAPY PROGRAM AND I FEEL AS IF I DON'T KNOW WHICH DIRECTION TO GO.....I STILL NEED MY LICENSE FOR L.A CITY WHICH NOW COSTS ABOUT $400(I AM WORKING ON GATHERING THE $$$ DUE TO ONLY WORKING PART-TIME)DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY ADVICE ???? i REALLY WOULD LOVE TO WORK IN AN ENVIRONMENT WHERE I KNOW I AM HELPING PEOPLE AND HAVE A PURPOSE

Michele - you need to know what environment you feel comfortable working in. I agree that chiropractors don't treat MT's well. As for a Spa, you want a reputable spa that may be part Salon too (or not). Questions to ask: how busy they are? how many current therapists? hour vs. commission? product charges for services? performance pay increases or raises(does pay increase as you get busier)? how are (cash and credit card)tips distributed? It's best to stay in one place and build your own reputation with clientele, so be picky - ask all questions you can think of! Ask friends and strangers what they think of the place you are applying for a job because you want a positive reputation as a MT.

Hello to all massage therapist.I did my training 5 yrs ago with National School of Technology in Miami Florida.I must say that was one of the best thing I ever did for my self. I relocate to the beautiful Saint Lucia, where I open my massage clinic, so far the money is flowing nicely and my clientele is growing pretty well.I help many people who were suffering with muscles pain, especially lower back pain. I have a reputation is good out there, my work speak for it self.I put my all to it and it pays.

Thanks to National School of Technology who makes a difference in my life.
My advise to massage therapist out there,don't give up on your dreams, it will be hard in the beginning weather you work on your own or with someone else, love what you do be the best that you can be and you will see the benefits at the end.

I am a nurse and was thinking about getting my massage license,and working for a spa or high end hair salon,then going out on my own and still continuing to practice as a nurse unless the road leads me somewhere else.Any advice?

I have been a therapist for 2 years now, These chiropracters pay

Chiropractors pay $17 and hr to do spot work,$30.00 hr massage(clients never tip)they use the excuse they don't know,what the hell is to know,the Therapist helps you the most,but you don't leave a tip,when the Therapist blocks off an hour for you. My advice is if you can get your personal clients while being a nurse go for it. People use Massage Therapist,I am so sick of it now....

Patricia Ercolano in Knoxville, Tennessee said: I am a nurse and was thinking about getting my massage license,and working for a spa or high end hair salon,then going out on my own and still continuing to practice as a nurse unless the road leads me somewhere else.Any advice?

Hi Patricia, thats a good idea.Whiles working with a spa have your cards done and pass it out to friends and family, even people from your church church that will help you build your clientele. Keep working as a nurse clients look at that too.

My DC paid me 13/half hour treatment ( worked on them for 25 min.)to begin with then raised me to $15 he also allowed me to take my clients to my private practice so long as they kept seeing me right before their DC treatments as well.

My DC was GREAT he paid me every week, billed for me, encouraged(almost required)his clients to see me, and only asked that once a month I make myself available at the Chamber of Commerce meetings. Those meeting usually included wine, food, drawings for free cool stuff and me doing chair massages for a short time and then enjoying the "meeting".

SO I had a totally different experience than most with my DC. I loved it. Did I mention he provided EVERYTHING except linens.

Daizeenah in Pasadena, Texas said: Well, unfortunately, I started out at Massage Envy, which, can get you REALLY hurt becoming a full time MT! (25 hrs a week) .... Anyway, since I started working at a spa, I have been able to make some good money. My advice to you is to watch your money closely, as some days are better than others for work!! And Chiropractors are good too!! In fact, I work in both places! Where in TX are you? I may be able to point you in the direction of some good connections!! Take care, and welcome to the MT family!!

I'm interested in becoming a massage therapist what school would you recommend?

well I thought I would be doing massages alone,now wants us the MT's to take out the trash at the end of the night,wipe down Chiro's tables,file. Somebody out there,please share what the MT's do at a Chiro's office. Times are hard,but should I put up with this crap,did I get my license to take out trash?

sheri in Boynton Beach, Florida said: well I thought I would be doing massages alone,now wants us the MT's to take out the trash at the end of the night,wipe down Chiro's tables,file. Somebody out there,please share what the MT's do at a Chiro's office. Times are hard,but should I put up with this crap,did I get my license to take out trash?

Whether you are employed or contracted, I can see the reasonable-ness in asking you to clean, wipe down your massage room and maybe even file your files; but I can't see, no matter what the arragement as an MT, the logic in requiring you to clean up after his work -that's usually why they hire a secretary, cleaning person, or chiropractor aid.

What are you job/employment arrangements? If you're not employed to do any CA work, or payed for it, I can't imagine why you should be expected to do this.

Thank you Donna for replying..I spoke up in a meeting we had,the other MT did not say anything,so I was left alone with the Crap. I understand about cleaning the massage stuff,files etc. It is more than that. I am building my private clients and working part-time,so I am counting the days.

Hello fellow Therapist! I am new to this message board, but have already found it
very helpful. I am strongly considering moving form Tampa,Fla. to Las Vegas. I wanted to know how realistic it is to get a job in one of the resorts in Vegas right away? I see postings for these jobs all the time, but can't apply b/c I am still waiting on my Nevada state license. Can anyone give me any insight please? Thanks, and have a fantastic day!

Massage in Missoula in Missoula, Montana said: My DC paid me 13/half hour treatment ( worked on them for 25 min.)to begin with then raised me to $15 he also allowed me to take my clients to my private practice so long as they kept seeing me right before their DC treatments as well.

My DC was GREAT he paid me every week, billed for me, encouraged(almost required)his clients to see me, and only asked that once a month I make myself available at the Chamber of Commerce meetings. Those meeting usually included wine, food, drawings for free cool stuff and me doing chair massages for a short time and then enjoying the "meeting".

SO I had a totally different experience than most with my DC. I loved it. Did I mention he provided EVERYTHING except linens.

well you are one of those Therapist that allows a Chiro to take advantage of our skills. Wow he raised your pay to 15,when he collects triple that. Hold your head up high and know how you should be treated.

LMT_in_Tx in Texas said: I've taken my time and interviewed with spas and doctor's offices alike. I'm looking to work part-time but wanted to know on an average (if you work for either a doc's office or spa) what you made first starting out.

I currently work for both a chiropractor and a spa. I am an independant contractor at the chiro's office and I make $43 and hour. I supply my own linens and lotion and I set my own hours. At the spa, I typically make $30/hr + $5-20 gratuity/service. I sometimes get tips at the chiro but not very often.
The atmosphere at the spa is more soothing and relaxed. The chirporactic massage is more intense and physically demanding.

Laura_MD in Illinois said: Michele - you need to know what environment you feel comfortable working in. I agree that chiropractors don't treat MT's well. As for a Spa, you want a reputable spa that may be part Salon too (or not). Questions to ask: how busy they are? how many current therapists? hour vs. commission? product charges for services? performance pay increases or raises(does pay increase as you get busier)? how are (cash and credit card)tips distributed? It's best to stay in one place and build your own reputation with clientele, so be picky - ask all questions you can think of! Ask friends and strangers what they think of the place you are applying for a job because you want a positive reputation as a MT.

A chiropractor will treat you well if you have confidence in your work. They tend to think they are godlike but if you find one you like well enough it's a good way to really learn how to be a therapeutic practitioner addressing peoples pain instead of a "feel good" therapist. Both are great ...just depends on you

I like what you said. We need to show our skills in Medical Massage.not just the fluff of it.

therapistinga in Atlanta, Georgia said: Are you a W-2 employee? Is so he can ask you to do those things. If you are an independant contractor (meaning he does not take taxes out on you), it's against the law for him to require you to do anything besides the agreed upon massage therapy.

Gosh I never knew that,when I ask to pay my own taxes he said the accountant said it could not be done..any more suggestions

go to
nolo.com
and search for:
Working as an Independent Contractor FAQ

You need to have a conversation with him. If he considers you an independant contractor(which he does if he is not paying your employment tax and unemployment insurance) then there needs to be a written contract between the two of you. This protects both of you. This contract needs to state what your duites are, what your rate of pay is, etc... You can draft this contract yourself (look up examples online) and request that he signs it. He may ask for changes to it and if you are ok with those changes, great. If he won't agree to sign a contract with you, I would consider ending your working relationship with his business. If he is a complete *ss about the conversation and you are brave enough, you could report him to the IRS. Know your rights. Research this and you will have the knowledge. Knowledge is power. Unfortunatly people will take advantage of you if you don't know your rights. It is possible that he is not aware that what he is doing is against the law but I doubt it, since he is a business owner. Go with your gut. I bet you are pretty good at reading peoples intentions and you will know how to proceed. Good Luck! Please let me know how your negotiations with him turn out. I care because I'm also a therapist and I hate to see people taken advantage of. We must all stand together to be strong and demand good pay and working conditions. Please see my discussion about a massage therapist union on this forum and tell other massage therapists that you know.

oops! I read your post wrong. I thought he DID NOT pay your taxes....In your case, if he is paying you an hourly rate for massage only and not paying you for those little extra duties I would ask to be paid at least minimum wage to perform duties outside of your massage duties. Hopefully he is already doing that. If you have been doing those little extras for a while it will be hard to broach the subject. There is a huge gray area when it comes to W-2 employee therapists. That's why I believe we need a union.

I would like to comment... How many of you MT's out there are bringing in new clients and referring them to your D.C.? I have found that most MT's want to be spoon fed their clients. The cost and effort of client acquisition is enormous. I suggest that if you are not happy working for a D.C. move on. You are not only limiting yourself but the D.C. as well and that does not serve the public. A successful staff works as a team with the primary goal of serving the public. Also, if you are an MT in CA making $30 an hour as an employee and the cost of a one hour massage is $60. After payroll and taxes the D.C. just about breaks even. I think most of you should go out on your own for a while and get a taste of what its like to build a practice from the ground up. It will only make you better at what you do.

I feed my DC 52% of her clients. But, hey, I research businesses with the best insurance, physically go and give free chair massage.

She doesn't do the same, but hey....she went to school 8 years, and I didn't!

Your D.C. should be thanking you everyday! As you can see education has little to do with ambition and success. You have a good formula for new clients and should kick your D.C. in the but!

sheri in Lake Worth, Florida said: well you are one of those Therapist that allows a Chiro to take advantage of our skills. Wow he raised your pay to 15,when he collects triple that. Hold your head up high and know how you should be treated.

Oh I guess you didn't read the part where the Dr. provided everything and didn't charge rent or utilities and kept feeding clients and kept the books.

What do you think is fair?

I commend you $15 an hour is great for you. Hope you get tips with that $15,and medical insurance.

Sheri you misread that post, the DC is paying her $15 on the HALF hour. Actually $15 on 25 minutes. SO, for 50 minutes of work she's at $30 an hour.

Most chiro's pay by the UNIT not by the hour. There are 4 units in an hour. I know our LMT's are making $7 per unit and up. So minimum they are making $28 an hour. They do not have to get clients, we feed them the clients, we do the billing to the insurance companies, we do everything (even the cleaning). The only thing our LMT's have ever had to do is clean their own table in between clients.

Working for a chiro is not a bad gig at all.

Every spa or chiropractor is different. You can't lump all of them into one group and say something like "chiropractors pay more" or "working at spas is better" because their pay scale and quality of employment is unique by location.

It depends on what kind of work you prefer.

I have worked at spas and was paid 70% commission plus tip. I have friends who currently work at spas and make 40%. I loved my spa, my friends are tangled in the daily drama that wears them out.

I have worked at a chiropractor's office. I paid a flat monthly rent for the room 3 days a week ($400/month), while another MT at the same location paid 30% to the clinic to book her appointments and file her insurance. I did my own.

Now I work at my own place doing some spa-type relaxation and some deep tissue/sports massage and spot work. THAT'S the best by far!

Well i had a bad experience going to a chiro, he offered me 9.00 an hour said he had great clients everyday about 50 hours a week of work. when i told him that i am licensed and that 9 an hour is very low said that he can pick any person off the street to do my work for 8 an hour. that since he is a chiro he can have massage therapist that does not have a license to work for him. he also said the same thing for his physical therapist... Also said that if i worked for him he would give me training on what a PT does. But this to me is out of the scope of practice for me and could cause harm to someone.

well not everyone is worth working for.

LMT_in_Tx in Texas said: I've taken my time and interviewed with spas and doctor's offices alike. I'm looking to work part-time but wanted to know on an average (if you work for either a doc's office or spa) what you made first starting out.

Persoanlly, I never made enough working for any spa or Ciropractor. I was always broke and overworked when I worked for others. I became very successful working for myself and I contracted others and kept a small percentage (0-30%).

I think it's a good idea for every MT who is so inclined, to build their own business. It's really not that complicated, if you know how.

Whether you choose to provide treatment work or relaxation massage, or both should be based on what massage modalities you are most drawn to giving. You should know what attracts you to working with the human body. Look at it form that view point and choose from there.

If you have any questions, befriend me on facebook.

Meagan Holub LMT
www.hundredthousanddollarmassage.com

wow you should report him....

i am going for an interview at a chiro. office soon. what are some questions i should ask? What do the interviews usually consist of?

I just came across this website & finished reading all the postings. Wow! I'm a newly licensed MT who is currently looking for emply'mt. As a new kid on the MT block, I'm finding the comments very helpful. I too am debating b/t spa & chiro. I agree every spa/chiro experience is different & we must look at them on an individual basis. I also agree, we as MT can't sell ourselves short. We must respect ourselves for others to respect us.

FloridaLMT in Hialeah, Florida said: Well i had a bad experience going to a chiro, he offered me 9.00 an hour said he had great clients everyday about 50 hours a week of work. when i told him that i am licensed and that 9 an hour is very low said that he can pick any person off the street to do my work for 8 an hour. that since he is a chiro he can have massage therapist that does not have a license to work for him. he also said the same thing for his physical therapist... Also said that if i worked for him he would give me training on what a PT does. But this to me is out of the scope of practice for me and could cause harm to someone.

Does this chiro know that it is against Florida massage laws to have someone in his office practicing massage therapy on a client . You have to be licensed in the state of florida to do massage . I have been licensed for three yrs and i work for a chiro and a day spa.

altmed07@bellsouth.net in Boca Raton, Florida said: I just came across this website & finished reading all the postings. Wow! I'm a newly licensed MT who is currently looking for emply'mt. As a new kid on the MT block, I'm finding the comments very helpful. I too am debating b/t spa & chiro. I agree every spa/chiro experience is different & we must look at them on an individual basis. I also agree, we as MT can't sell ourselves short. We must respect ourselves for others to respect us.

Dear Altmed- I have been practicing massage a few years now and have
found that working in different envirnments helps you figure out what you don't want and what you want. I say try both. Only b/c every experience working will only make you a better therapist. It
is an ongoing growth process. I personally prefer the spa, small
office environment as the clientele is generally more appreciative.
Also the tips are better. You may also want to look into gyms,sports clubs and golf clubs. Keep in mind that a Chiro is haveing you do a 30 min tx on a patient, paying you $10 and billing insurance $50!! Most of them are unarmed robbers!!! Good luck.

Sally ~ Thks for your feedback, I appreciate it. I totally understand about "sampling" different environments for experience. I know my ultimate goal is to do energy work/healing, but must start somewhere. I don't really want to be in a spa environment, however, if that's where I need to begin, so be it. I hear ya about the chiro's being robbers. I adjusted work comp clms for 20yrs (in my prior life) so I'm familiar w/the "billing" game. If I could pick your brain on another issue...self emply'mt taxes. Realizing it will be different for everyone, what is a good average to "sock away" for taxes? Thks again for your feedback. : )

Dear Altmed-
I used to say a good 10-15%, depending on your county and biz
expenses. If I have a good season and have a little extra I put
that to the side. Honestly with all the new tax laws and recession,
its hard to say. Last year I did not put away as much as I wanted, and thought I was going to have to pay $2k, but actually ended up
getting a small refund! Which I just had held for this year.

Sally in West Palm Beach, Florida said: Dear Altmed- I have been practicing massage a few years now and have
found that working in different envirnments helps you figure out what you don't want and what you want. I say try both. Only b/c every experience working will only make you a better therapist. It
is an ongoing growth process. I personally prefer the spa, small
office environment as the clientele is generally more appreciative.
Also the tips are better. You may also want to look into gyms,sports clubs and golf clubs. Keep in mind that a Chiro is haveing you do a 30 min tx on a patient, paying you $10 and billing insurance $50!! Most of them are unarmed robbers!!! Good luck.

Sally,I have been working for a Chiro now for one year. When I interviewed,he he said I will have to help with ultrasound etc. Well after that I noticed he added filing then taking out trash,doing laundry..now he is saying wiping windows..oh and wiping down the chiro tables. The office manager sits up front and at night the LMT's are very busy..she can take out her trash and straighten up the front area. I am a licensed professional and I feel I am a cleaner now. The other Therapist are now wanting to say something but there is one that is sucking up to the Chiro,because he is not a good therapist. Why is it that LMT's don't stand up for their rights. I am the only one that is fighting this...

Sally in West Palm Beach, Florida said: Dear Altmed- I have been practicing massage a few years now and have
found that working in different envirnments helps you figure out what you don't want and what you want. I say try both. Only b/c every experience working will only make you a better therapist. It
is an ongoing growth process. I personally prefer the spa, small
office environment as the clientele is generally more appreciative.
Also the tips are better. You may also want to look into gyms,sports clubs and golf clubs. Keep in mind that a Chiro is haveing you do a 30 min tx on a patient, paying you $10 and billing insurance $50!! Most of them are unarmed robbers!!! Good luck.

Just an FYI....If you bill an INS company $50 you would probably expect to collect $30, subtract from that number supplies & laundry per massage then minus staff time for scheduling, billing & collecting that money & sometimes never getting paid at all

DC in Chicago, Illinois said: Just an FYI....If you bill an INS company $50 you would probably expect to collect $30, subtract from that number supplies & laundry per massage then minus staff time for scheduling, billing & collecting that money & sometimes never getting paid at all

I hear ya and that is why I don't deal with insurance or crooked chiropracters!

I am graduating from esthetician school in a few weeks and am seriously considering going to school for massage does anyone know about the 2 schools in prescott Az NAMTI and ASIS?Any info would be appreciated Thank you

Jackie Jones in Prescott Valley, Arizona said: I am graduating from esthetician school in a few weeks and am seriously considering going to school for massage does anyone know about the 2 schools in prescott Az NAMTI and ASIS?Any info would be appreciated Thank you

I went to Apollo College, at the time I went it had about 5 different instructors that all had their own views, this helped me put together a great package of knowledge and let me decide how to use it. They have one up north, the bryman institute is supposed to be good, if you can get to tucson every body raves about DIHA Desert Institute of the Healing Arts... Good luck, let me know if you need any help, being from that area you have alot of choices of where to work, here in Sierra Vista, I do outcall part time, military makes for good clients, good for extra side money, but still, i'd rather be massaging full time ya know?

Hi~
I'm a MT with 15 years experience who has been out of the job pool for almost 4 years. I'm state-licensed and nationally certified. What percentage of commission would I want to ask for in a day spa situation? Is 70-60% feasible, or is 40% the norm these days? What kind of hourly rate would I want to ask for if that is an option? Thanks to all.

Hi would you like to work in St Lucia?

Shannon-
I am in S.FLA and working in a high end spa doing
massage and body treatments as an independant contractor
making 40-45% (body tx less). Before working here and
looking I would take into consideration the facicities
prices. If they are charging less than $80 for a traditional
sweedish massage I would say more like %40. As far as
an hourly rate, I would suggest $10-$15 hr when you are
not massaging, especially if they have a smaller faciclity,
and hope that you will help out with daily chores. Also
make sure you inspect the facility very well for cleanliness
and quality of products, sheets and towels. Another thing to
take into consideration is clientele tipping? Good, bad, or
non existant?

Hi Katie~
Thanks for your reply :) Yes, they DO charge less than $80/hr. for Swedish--$70 actually....my impression is that years of experience don't necessarily give me tons of negotiating power in a day spa interview, and that the cap seems to be around 40-45%, whether I have 5 minutes of experience, or 25 years!Others who are NOT in the spa industry have been adamant that I need to ask for NO LESS THAN 60%. I'm confused and the interview is today!

Bexon22~
Are you serious? I have been contemplating the Caribbean VERY seriously this past week, and have been pondering how/when I could afford to travel there for work, costs involved, etc..in short, the answer to your question is YES.

How very interesting that you've asked....:)

Im simultaneously trying to get a job HERE in a day spa as a means to finance my dream of being THERE (Caribbean).