Legal secretary vs paralegal? Which has more job openings? Which is a better career?

Legal secretaries are usually not college educated. They are bright, know all the Microsoft Office programs, they can maintain confidentiality, type fast, they have a servant's heart. They usually don't work a ton of overtime. They process work without getting too involved in the facts of the cases.

Paralegals/legal asst are more often college educated, but you can get in without college. You are considered more of a professional in that you will do whatever it takes to get things done. You know the cases inside and out. You can't plead ignorance like the secretaries can.

There are more legal secretary jobs than paralegal jobs. Most attorneys have a secretary, but having a paralegal isn't always a given.

Sometimes at one firm a task will be the paralegal's job and at another job it's the secretary's job. Lots of overlap in some areas. But a secretary does the straight word processing, the dictation, the mail, the filing, answers the attorney's phone, orders lunch. Paralegals do more legal work, the errands, the overtime, the travel, the trial work.

It's a disadvantage to have a 4 year college degree and want to be a legal secretary.

A legal secretary is going to make barely above minimum wage. I would not go to colelge to become one.

Here the legal secretary salaries are right in line with paralegal salaries.

Many paralegals are legal secretaries. YUP...They could not find a job as a paralegal but the firms were happy to hire them as legal secretary...assuming they can type enough for the job.

I temped as a legal secretary for one year...they were not speed typing positions...

Dallas...The legal secretaries have to know all the civil procedures..

SO what if you know the nuts and bolts of the case...All you do as a paralegal in litigation is draft documents.

Yeah...devil's advicate!!

Many paralegal end up as legal secretaries...because they cannot find a paralegal position.

As to salary...IF you go on a job interview, blind...have no information on salary...WHEN do you ask about salary????

I interviewed at a few big firms...had no idea what they pay..they do not tell you..as least for me...until it is job offer time..So I have no idea what these firms would have been wiling to pay me ...if they offered the job..

Kind of annoying!!!!

need anxiety medication..and lots of it...if job really stressful

I was hired as a Legal assistant...I did dictaphone and some independent para assignments.

I have a friend who is an attorney and he told me that the need for legal secretaries is not that relevant when you have a paralegal who can generate billable hours and cash to the firms bottom line.

So I have taken a secretaries course on-line and will be attending college soon to complete a paralegal degree so when I am hired I won't have to worry acquirirng all the skills of both positions from scratch, I will already have one mastered.

I can also help out the new firm better from the ground up if I can function as both from the start.

Best of luck to you all!!!

Not sure what they pay in Dallas but here in Jersey i am making as a legal secretary almost $70K. I am secretary to the partner. "I don't order lunch" as one person advised above. I have a two-year associates degree as do most of the girls here at the firm. You are incorrect in your reporting as you do not need a degree. Maybe in 1950 or 1960 that was true. I have been doing this job for 19 years and most places in the Tri-State area prefer an educational background. I am paid more than the paralegals. Most of the associate secretaries are making well over $55K. Most of the job i do it is expected that i work as if i am a paralegal. To work on the types of files i work on - it's more than just hands-on and being "bright". If you are interested in working in the field of medical malpractice, product liability and wrongful death, be prepared to know your stuff, work hard, and be at times, beaten up on. If you are interested in this type of work-and can handle stress somewhat well, than a profession in legal is for you-if you can't handle a lot of stress and deadlines-don't become a legal secretary and/or paralegal. It's not what it looks like on Boston Legal, Ally McBeal, etc. Far from.

Thanx Christie. I am actually taking courses @ a small business college for legal secretary. I was starting to worry that I wasn't gonna make any money. So, thank u. I again have hope. LOL

Thank you for giving me some info. Like I said, I was starting to worry a little that I'm paying for school and won't be able to find a job w/a good salary.

I am in a medical transcription program right now through Career Step and I have been very disappointment with the job outlook. I will be finishing this program probably by November and I had thought about going back to the Community College and getting a second associate's degree in paralegal studies. I have done a little contract related, mostly governmental, legal work in the past as a secretary and I enjoyed it. My question is--is it as impossible to get recognized when you get a degree as a paralegal as it is to get recognized when you complete a medical transcription program. Medical transcriptionist's usually work from home and the companies that hire them do not want to give new graduates a chance. I don't want to spend 1 1/2 more years in school only to find out I have chosen a wrong field again. Got any thoughts. All are appreciated. My most recent experience for 15 years has been in hotel and customer service call center, but I really don't want to do that again.

Donald_ in Ridgefield, New Jersey said: A legal secretary is going to make barely above minimum wage. I would not go to colelge to become one.

I don't know why you would feel a legal secretary barely makes above minimum wage. I am a legal secretary making $86,000 a year and my friends who are also legal secretaries are making close to $100,000 a year and that does not include overtime. I have a legal secretary certificate at a university and they didn't and they're making more money.

"Finally, again, law is a tough industry. One must be hardened in order to deal with the difficult, demanding and abrupt personalities encountered in law. One must be willing to work long hours for pay NOT commensurate with the job, while receiving little or no thanks or recognition."
Also true in New York. Not worth it.

kmm in Wilmington, Delaware said: need anxiety medication..and lots of it...if job really stressful

I agree - not a way to live. And just to serve lawyers.

Is it worth my while to take courses to become a legal transcriber? Is this something the legal secretaries do unless you are a court transcriber?

djcar2007 in Tampa, Florida said: Is it worth my while to take courses to become a legal transcriber? Is this something the legal secretaries do unless you are a court transcriber?

There is a world of difference between a legal word processor in a law firm and being a court reporter.

Legal word processor jobs are almost obsolete.
I am also in Tampa. I have been looking for court reporting work for at least four months.

If you want to think about court reporting, go to the website for Irwin-Votec on Hillsborough Avenue.

Displaced Legal Professional in Denver, Colorado said: What do you mean by a "legal transcriber"?

If you mean court reporter, our user, "Mary inTampa," can answer your questions.

I have received information for an online degree in "legal transcription" I do not know about legal word processors. The Legal transcriptionists supposedly do anything from transcribing legal meetings, drafting pleadings to court reporting...I do not know if that is just hype from the on-line school or not. I would love to work from home at least some of the time, but I do not have time to waste on training that will not pan out. It does not sound good if you (Mary) have been looking for four months.

tyco in Las Vegas, Nevada said: I am in a medical transcription program right now through Career Step and I have been very disappointment with the job outlook. I will be finishing this program probably by November and I had thought about going back to the Community College and getting a second associate's degree in paralegal studies. I have done a little contract related, mostly governmental, legal work in the past as a secretary and I enjoyed it. My question is--is it as impossible to get recognized when you get a degree as a paralegal as it is to get recognized when you complete a medical transcription program. Medical transcriptionist's usually work from home and the companies that hire them do not want to give new graduates a chance. I don't want to spend 1 1/2 more years in school only to find out I have chosen a wrong field again. Got any thoughts. All are appreciated. My most recent experience for 15 years has been in hotel and customer service call center, but I really don't want to do that again.

Tyco, instead of shelling out more dough to go through more schooling, have you applied to any hospitals? With your training, you would probably be great in a number of business/clerical positions, whether it be in transcription, admissions, working as a unit secretary, etc. It's a great way to get your foot in the door, and many hospitals offer in-house classes and tuition reimbursement so you can add to your skills. I used to be a medical transcriptionist who worked in a hospital and then worked at home for several years before I got the brilliant idea to start working for lawyers.

hahahahaha "legal transcription" - what a racket. Been in the legal field 12 years and never heard of a job called Legal Transcriber. Legal secretaries will spend part of their day typing up dictation and big firms have word processors who work overnight typing and formating, but a legal transcripionist - just that all day long? Naw....

If they mean court reporting, they should just say Court Reporting. Who calls it anything else?? You have to pass state tests to be a court reporter - at least in this state - 225 wpm with 5 errors or less.

I work for a big corporation's legal department and work from home 4 days a week. My friend works for another big corporate legal department and works from home 3 days a week. It's possible to work from home as a paralegal. Oh and I do know one paralegal working at a law firm who works 2 days a week from home.

Saw a law firm survey - question was does your firm plan on hiring attorneys, secretaries or paralegals in the next year and it was 20% would hire paralegals, 93% would hire attorneys and 32% would hire secretaries. Not good for paralegals.

Lisa22 in Florida said: I know. I am on high blood pressure due to the unecessary abrasive treatment. Why anyone would choose to become a monster to everyone in the office is beyond. It's no wonder that the attorney I work for has all kinds of medications that he takes. He is angry and on edge all the dam time. Maybe if he chilled the hell out he come come off some of his medications.

My theory is that some attorneys have serious personality disorders, and that the profession just feeds and nurtures their disorders. Some attorneys have a gross sense of entitlement. Like they poop on a golden toilet and the tissue should always made of silk. They think everyone owes them something - like pompous demi-gods. I say "some attorneys" because I have worked for a few really nice attorneys. Other attorneys, I think they were born in the wrong time, because what they really want to be are overseers of slaves on plantations. The only recourse a paralegal has in that instance (in my opinion) is to quietly find another job and give notice.

Oh, come on. There are as many miscreants in other fields as there are in the legal field. I know there are some not-so-nice attorneys out there who are beasts, but let's be real here and not paint with such a wide brush.

Lisa, I realize we're talking about the legal field. I'm only pointing out that other fields have just as many evil sods in them as the legal field does. And I never said that all attorneys were NOT mean. It's just that this ongoing agenda against attorneys in general is tiresome. Time to let it go and move on.

wow. try stepping in thier shoes for one day, dealing directly with the scumbags that they work with. everyone trying to get over on another because of greed.no one is worse than the client. the attorney takes all the grief and disbelief from the client and processes in seconds flat. where do you think they store all of this animosity? check in with reality.

Parafreegal in Chicago, Illinois said: Lisa, I realize we're talking about the legal field. I'm only pointing out that other fields have just as many evil sods in them as the legal field does. And I never said that all attorneys were NOT mean. It's just that this ongoing agenda against attorneys in general is tiresome. Time to let it go and move on.

Well, I think you are right Parafreegal, there are probably just as many "evil sods" in other fields. (smiles) Having not worked in other fields for a while, I can only comment on the evil beasts in law. LOL. There are some attorneys who are very decent to work for. And in fairness, I respect, admire, and enjoy working with the attorney I work for right now.

I have to say, though, when I was still working for my previous employer, who was very difficult to work for, it was a relief to come on this board and see that other people were experiencing, or had experienced, the same crazy treatment. Reading this board also gave me added motivation to look for a better job and give notice when I got the better job. Perhaps the grousing about the attorneys who are crappy bosses does get a little tiresome. I look forward to posting more good, positive stuff. :)

Altogether, I've worked a good many years in the legal field. I'm not going to say how many since this is a public forum and anonymous posters have decided to hedge. I can't say I've worked for one single attorney who was a horrible person or impossible to deal with. I've probably worked directly with 50 attorneys. I said 50. Maybe more. Out of all of them, I can remember one guy who was a real head case and rather abusive to his staff. You know what? I was able to deal with him and work with him anyway.

There you go. Is this going to be deleted like all my other comments in the other thread? The internet strong arming is quashing of anything contrary to what the mod says is...lame.

good for you, lawyers are people too :).
you can't have a thin skin and work in the service industry.
at the end of the day, that's what it is. love it or leave it.

Donald_ in Ridgefield, New Jersey said: A legal secretary is going to make barely above minimum wage. I would not go to colelge to become one.

Barely above minimum wage? Where? I've been a legal secretary for many years. In some firms the legal secretaries make MORE than the paralegals. I make $62k annually (without having to work the hours of the paralegals).

What type of training did you take to become a legal secretary? I have been to secretarial school (years ago)but we only studied torts and legal documents, not the day to day work in an attorney's office.

You don't need any schooling to be a legal secretary. You could get Word certification. You could get a manual (study guide) to learn the legal process. In today's world, I wouldn't waste any money for some school.

There are lot of entry level jobs.

You only need to know how to type to be a legal secretary. It's entirely on-the-job training. The thing is that women don't want legal secretary jobs anymore. Times have changed. The demographic for legal secretaries is getting older. We're talking 45+ years old. So I would think there would be jobs out there since nobody seems to want to do this job anymore.

It's true that you don't need schooling to be a legal secretary - but you do have to be smart. Legal secretaries need to know the kind of things you don't necessarily learn in school - they need to be people smart and office-machine smart and just have plain common sense. I deeply respect the older legal secretaries I have worked with - they always knew a ton about the nuts and bolts of legal procedure - as well as simple but important things like how many copies, what gets sent to whom, how do I get the evil postage machine to work. Without their help I would have been lost! I think legal secretaries don't get enough credit for the great work they do.

Lily in Holbrook, New York said: Barely above minimum wage? Where? I've been a legal secretary for many years. In some firms the legal secretaries make MORE than the paralegals. I make $62k annually (without having to work the hours of the paralegals).

Barely above minimum wage??? Where is he getting his information? The legal secretaries in my firm make $75,000 per year. The paralegals only make $60,000. Legal secretaries are the highest paid secretaries.

Legal secretaries making $75K? I would assume that's in a huge law national law firm.

I don't mean to denigrate legal secretaries, but it says a lot about the legal field when legal secretaries make more than paralegals. One could start working as a legal secretary right out of high school. One cannot do the same if one wants to be a Paralegal. Just saying.

I worked as a legal secretary for 15 years but then had to take a 10-year break to raise my children. I am having trouble getting back into the field. I am considering taking a legal secretary course as a refresher and something to add to my resume. Can anyone recommend a good online course? I was looking at Center for Legal Studies which charges $500-600 and Stetson University (recommended by NALA) which charges $3000. The discrepancy in fees makes me wonder about the quality of CLS. I was told by CLS that the course is universal so I would not actually learn anything pertaining to the state I am in, ie., state court filing requirements, and they do not cover TOA, TOC, or redlining. I notice more and more wants ads are specifically requesting this knowledge so I question if attending CLS would actually give me the hand-son knowledge which I need to get hired. I would love some feedback on these courses. Recommendations for another course would also be greatly appreciated!

Thanks!

Gwen in Marietta, Georgia said: I worked as a legal secretary for 15 years but then had to take a 10-year break to raise my children. I am having trouble getting back into the field. I am considering taking a legal secretary course as a refresher and something to add to my resume. Can anyone recommend a good online course? I was looking at Center for Legal Studies which charges $500-600 and Stetson University (recommended by NALA) which charges $3000. The discrepancy in fees makes me wonder about the quality of CLS. I was told by CLS that the course is universal so I would not actually learn anything pertaining to the state I am in, ie., state court filing requirements, and they do not cover TOA, TOC, or redlining. I notice more and more wants ads are specifically requesting this knowledge so I question if attending CLS would actually give me the hand-son knowledge which I need to get hired. I would love some feedback on these courses. Recommendations for another course would also be greatly appreciated!

Thanks!

I am curious - why do you prefer an online course as opposed to attending classes in person at a local community college? In my opinion (and it is just an opinion), attending class in person is superior because a class at your local community college may be taught by a local attorney who can provide you with useful connections. In addition, your classmates can also be useful resources once you get to know them. Further, community colleges also offer job placement.

My local college recently cancelled their legal secretary course, which I had been considering taking. I have only been able to find the Center for Legal Studies course which is being offered through a tech college which is located about 20 miles away. I have been unable to find anything else locally which holds the course on campus.

I bet it would be tough to get back in as a legal secretary after a 10 year absence. The field has changed so much. Many many legal secretaries were laid off in 2008. Firms just don't need as many anymore. The young attorneys even do their own e-filing. Can you just go to a legal temp agency and do their courses? It used to be they would test you and then let you use their tutorials for the major programs. E-filing can be learned on the spot. It's so easy, but sometimes the counties will have free training sessions for the county-level e-filing.

I am taking paralegal courses right now. My instructor, who is also an attorney and the department advisor for paralegal studies stresses over and over that there is no difference between a paralegal and a legal secretary according to the ABA and NALA.

Paralegal and legal secretary have been separate positions with separate job descriptions at every place I have ever worked.

Yes, there is some overlap, but dictation, expense reports, straight typing and formating, lunch fetching, wife present buying, entering time, mail opening, visitor greeting, coffee fetching, phone answering are all exclusively legal secretary work (because it's not billable, but these things need to get done). It's also hard to get one of these gigs if you have a college degree (over qualified).

If you are representing corporations and billing time, they will not pay the legal secretary to do anything.

And if 5:00 rolls around and there is something that some support staff must do before leaving, the secretary is the one walking out the door saying see ya later. Paralegals can't say no. Paralegals can't be the one to say, Sorry, gotta get. Paralegals are the professionals who put work first.

But pay is about the same.

Also, ask your local legal recruiters if they think legal secretary and paralegal are the same thing. They will say no.

What this poster is indicating her instructor said is part of the problem in the paralegal world: ill-defined job descriptions and parameters. A paralegal can be expected to do anything, depending on where the paralegal is working.

I just interviewed at a firm yesterday where they tried to describe what the job was. What the description came across as was: a person with a high technical acumen who manages databases and teams of people inputting documents into them, some travel, some legal research and maybe cite checking on the fly. So, you never really know what you'll be getting into or doing until you're there doing it. And all of this in the face of rapid changes in the industry.

Parafreegal in Chicago, Illinois said: What this poster is indicating her instructor said is part of the problem in the paralegal world: ill-defined job descriptions and parameters. A paralegal can be expected to do anything, depending on where the paralegal is working.

I just interviewed at a firm yesterday where they tried to describe what the job was. What the description came across as was: a person with a high technical acumen who manages databases and teams of people inputting documents into them, some travel, some legal research and maybe cite checking on the fly. So, you never really know what you'll be getting into or doing until you're there doing it. And all of this in the face of rapid changes in the industry.

It's interesting that you say that, because I asked my previous supervising attorney, a partner in the firm where I used to work, why the firm did not provide any job descriptions. My supervising attorney explained that the partners chose not to provide job descriptions because they wanted the staff to do whatever they asked and not say, "Well, that's not in the job description."

I have called a few agencies and they simply tell me I should submit my resume for review and they will call me. Then, they never call. Additionally, I am afraid to temp because then I will have to seriously cut back on my hours as a transcriptionist, which I cannot afford to do. I don't think the agencies would give me enough work to fill the void either.

I just want to add my few cents to the debate of whether there is a difference between a secretary and a paralegal. When I was secretary, the major difference that I noticed is that while the paralegal had an office and could shut the door on the world every once in a while, the secretaries were much better paid, received overtime, and generally did not get abused as much. However, I wonder since the recession and many secretaries/paralegals were fired and generally first year associates were taking over the paralegal positions, I wonder which position is geared toward longevity.

I entered medical transcription so I could raise my children. MT is great for flexibility, but the pay is poor and due to the recession and outsourcing, I have not only not received a raise in the last 10 years, have actually experienced substantial decrease in pay due to being let go when the companies downsized or restructured and the starting pay was less with each new company that hired me. I am anxious to get back to the challenges, being able to use my mind, instead of mindlessly typing, and would love to work as a team in person with other like-minded people. I have considered perhaps just taking a paralegal course and hoping I could be considered for either a paralegal or a legal secretary. Unfortunately, I never went to college so would need to get an associates' degree first as the ABA-approved paralegal courses require at least an associates'. I have started college last semester and so am already working towards this goal. I thought perhaps I could take a legal secretary course to help me get in the door in the meantime.

Any opinions are welcomed.

Okay, here's my opinion - and it's just an opinion - if you really want a legal secretary position while you are working for your Associate's Degree, I don't think you need to shell out dough to take a legal secretary course, and I don't think medical transcription involves "mindless typing." (I know it feels that way sometimes though.) Anyway, my point is, you already know difficult medical terminology, and you are probably a lightning fast typist who knows how to meet tight deadlines under pressure. Don't go through agencies and don't sell your abilities short. Look every morning for advertisements in your local paper, on Monster, and on Craigslist, anything that says "entry-level" and only respond to advertisements that are from real law firms. (That's going to winnow out a lot of the advertisements.) Look for law firm websites, and Google email addresses and phone numbers listed in the advertisements. And tell everybody you know that you are looking for work. Tweak your resume and sell yourself shamelessly in your cover letter to highlight your great typing skills, your medical terminology knowledge and computer knowledge. And if you get an interview, point out that your years away from being a legal secretary means that you have no bad habits to unlearn. Entry-level, unfortunately, means low pay, but entry-level means gaining experience and experience leads to higher pay. Don't give up. It can take many months to find a job. I honestly don't think having a legal secretary certificate on your resume is going to help you much. I think you will save money and gain experience by working with the skills you already have. Just my opinion!

I wouldn't shell out money for a legal secretary course either.

Thank you so much for opinions. If I bypass the legal secretary course, is there any way to learn E-Filing on my own? I know the temp agencies here are not going to help me. Do the courts have some sort of tutorial?

E-filing is no big deal. Most of it is called PACER. You upload your document for filing.

Quick rundown: Scan your document (big copier) so it is a PDF. Go to your desk. Get the e-mail, save it to your desktop. Log into PACER, follow the instuctions, (log in, password, file document, case number). The big thing is getting your document attached. (It's fairly comparative to attaching a document to an e-mail).

Gwen in Marietta, Georgia said: Thank you so much for opinions. If I bypass the legal secretary course, is there any way to learn E-Filing on my own? I know the temp agencies here are not going to help me. Do the courts have some sort of tutorial?

I know that some courts actually offer training sessions in e-filing, such as the US Middle District here in Florida. Perhaps similar training sessions are available at the courts in your state? I'm supposed to register for one of those training sessions but I have not done it yet (procrastinator). This is a website that offers generic training modules for e-filing:

www.pacer.gov/ecfcbt/dc/

I was enrolled through an Online College to become a Paralegal/Legal Secretary and in my book's it say's that they are the exact same thing.Just different Name's.Now there is different types of Paralegal's,depending on what type of work you wanted to do etc...Then depending on if your Independent,work in a Law Firm,Office,Construction Company,Courthouse does the Salary Vary.Independent Paralegal's can make decent money depending on the work load you choose.If working for a Larger law Firm/Corporation you'll make more then a Lawyer's Office or elsewhere.And nowaday's getting a Paralegal Certificate is enough to get you in alot of door's.The Course I was taking was at my own speed with normal completion of all Lesson's in about 4 month's.