Regulatory Affairs training in Canada

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RA Graduate in Toronto, Ontario

87 months ago

Dear E in Woodbridge,

I'm not writing these comments to stir up any controversy nor to engage in some sort of debate, I'm just simply voicing my opinion and experience. I certainly did not expect someone to hand me a job once I graduated, I just thought that the extra education in regulatory affairs would be an advantage to finding a job. I just wanted to share my personal experience of how hard it has been finding employment, and that I know others in a similar situation.
Best Regards,
RA graduate

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goz in Istanbul, Turkey

87 months ago

Hi everybody,

Is there anyone who got the final decision? I havent heard of anythın yet, so i wonder if anyone heard of it or I am not alone...

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X in Toronto, Ontario

87 months ago

I got an "May be eligible for acceptance" on my Seneca account page. What the F is that!?

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X in Toronto, Ontario

87 months ago

am I waitlisted?!

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E in Woodbridge, Ontario

87 months ago

you can call them and clarify what exactly that means. I know the acceptance statement was also very cryptic as well.

Keep in mind, lets say the "accept" 40 people, they can't guarantee that all of those people will accept their acceptance (If you follow me).

For example, some people applied months ago and then they found a job between then and now so they don't want to go to the school anymore.

The way I interpret this "may be eligible" statement, they are saying that you are near the top of the waiting list and you may be offered a seat once they don't hear back from a few of the others by the deadline.

Also, if someone got accepted and they can't front the funds, well then they are cut. Alot of people don't worry about the funding until they get in, and then its too late. Also, many people find that they cannot find a place in Toronto to move to and they end up saying "forget it, its not worth it"

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J in Vancouver, British Columbia

87 months ago

Nothing changed on my Seneca page. I have not even gotten my marks yet. I am beginning to think that people from out of province or country have a harder time getting in. Too bad.

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z in Ajax, Ontario

87 months ago

yo, party at kps on the 27th

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REG Grad in Toronto, Ontario

87 months ago

As another reg grad who was forwarded to these forums I have to say that the other graduates are correct in their postings and once you actually go through the program you will realize what they mean. If most of the graduates from last year can't get a job in regulatory (and some have MSc's and PhDs) I don't think this years class has a very good chance either. The reason why the other grads are posting is because they never had someone tell them the truth before the did the program.

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X in Toronto, Ontario

87 months ago

"May be eligible for acceptance on your seneca account page means you're in. They haven't processed it yet in their system to 'officially' send you an offer. I confirmed it with the Admission office.

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E in Woodbridge, Ontario

87 months ago

Well X, let me be the first one on here to congratulate you on your acceptance to Seneca.

At least now that stress of getting in is all over and you can relax a little bit and enjoy your holidays/last few days of freedom.

The RA program is very demanding, they usually recommend that students do not split their time between school and a part time job.

As long as you stay focused and get the work done, meet all deadlines you'll be done, the program is only 8 months, you'll be done in no time.

Good luck

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Bob in Burlington, Ontario

87 months ago

Are there any individuals who have taken alternative paths to meeting their goal of working in RA?

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E in Woodbridge, Ontario

87 months ago

you may try getting into pharma RA through an indirect route. For example you may start a position and work your way into QA/QC position. From there perhaps you can springboard into RA with enough experience.

There is also the possibility that one could bridge the gap between Clinical trial associate and regulatory affairs with enough experience.

Generally, an RA certificate from an accredited school is the best/most direct route.

One of these other routes is a long shot. To put in simply, majority of "RA associate" positions require experience. This schooling COUNTS as experience and thats the initial hurdle you must overcome. Also, note that many RA positions do not list "RA Certificate" as a prerequisite, if you possess the knowledge and experience you do not need this certificate to enter the field. That being said, most of the companies I have talked to will not ask for RA certificate on the job ad BUT they tell me they would not hire anyone without it. I think this is due to the fact that although they don't ask for it as a prerequisite, the bar has been set higher by those applying for the job with the degree. They have 2 candidates, both meet the requirements but the person with the certificate meets those requirements and goes beyond them.

As stated earlier, TIPT is not always recognized as an accepted certificate, but this is obviously a general statement based on my research. 9 out of 10 companies I talked to had never heard of TIPT and they would not "gamble" on TIPT grad if they could have a humber grad instead. The 2 places that did know about TIPT did not have a good experience with hired TIPT grads in the past and as a result TIPT has a tarnished reputation.

Obviously this isn't always the case, and those who find themselves not getting into Seneca or Humber may have their only option of going to TIPT.

My opinion: TIPT would be a better chance of getting a job in RA than trying to work your way up through QA/QC

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Bob in Burlington, Ontario

87 months ago

Regulatory affairs jobs for people with experience seem to be plentiful. I assume that those jobs are taken by people lower down the job ladder. Does this scenario not open up jobs for those with little or no experience??

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E in Woodbridge, Ontario

87 months ago

You are correct but its alot more complicated than that.

Every student fresh out of university asks the same question when they are fully qualified for a job but cannot get it because they lack experience.

This is the initial hurdle to overcome. School program counts as experience, work in a related field may count as experience, internship hours, volunteer hours, etc...

If you get in the door with an internship, they may offer you a job later. You must understand business decisions. In this case, they spent 4 months "training you" on company protocols, procedures, etc...you have schooling, but you don't have the experience they wanted.....well in this case the decision is different. If it were someone off the street then they would have to invest all this time and money into this person before they become useful, in this case thats already done for them.

Bottom line is that a company will always take the best that they can get. Entry level positions are not generally available to people with no experience because there is such a large group of people above that looking for those same jobs. Effectively the bar has been raised.

To reference your question, promotions happen and those positions are constantly being filled. But unless those positions are coming available faster than students are becoming available you won't see the bar coming down.

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Bob in Burlington, Ontario

87 months ago

I recognize that companies (during tough economic times) would rather take in a trained individual. I am experiencing the same issues because of the profession I entered has a glut of graduates.
I often see RA jobs posted for the US and the UK. Are any graduates pursuing the jobs elsewhere?
Have you encountered any graduates from non Canadian schools?? Are their credentials recognized as comparable to those in Canada??

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E in Woodbridge, Ontario

87 months ago

right now and in past years, we are told that humber graduates get internships only within canada.

What they do after that is highly variable. A good majority of students in my current class come from international backgrounds and carry international degrees. Some may choose to go back to their country after the internship, and I have heard of these cases in the past.

In my case, there would be alot of issues such as work visas and so on involved with seeking immediate employment outside of canada but it is definately an option to consider when the time comes.

My research has brought up a few schools in the US that offer RA courses, such as BTEC in North Carolina. But there are differences. Here we have a comprehensive program with 16 courses on various areas to give an overall education. At school like BTEC they may offer 1 course here and there that runs 2 weeks in duration and then you get a certificate for that course.

Its definately a different approach because RA is generally not a field that requires special education. Not many places offer it. This is the main reason why you see so many international students flocking to this program because its rarely offered.

Companies I have talked to said that they would hire people coming from anywhere provided they have RA experience. Regarding students with no experience, they only ever know the 2 schools and thats where they go. Keep in mind these are canadian companies and I'm not so sure what a US company does.

This includes companies in Ottawa, Winnipeg, Vancouver. When asked about which schools they deal with, Humber and Seneca are the answer.

The program itself focuses mainly on Health Canada, and slightly less on US and Europe. We do get exposure to those but if one were to seek employment in these other countries they would most likely need to get more education based on whichever country.

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goz in Istanbul, Turkey

87 months ago

Are there more peop. who knows if they are accepted or not ?

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X in Toronto, Ontario

87 months ago

Hello E. I really appreciate your insightful postings on this board. What is your opinion on RAC designation? If one was to pursue this designation, I'd imagine the most useful would be US, EU and then Can. What do you think?

Thanks in advance for your input.

X

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E in Woodbridge, Ontario

87 months ago

By RAC designation I assume you are referring to the RAPS society online training program?

My understanding is that this training is more useful to those in the field who wish to upgrade their qualifications.

If you look it over, it is a very "topline" curriculum, with modules on GMP, GCP etc... all of which are very helpful but might not be specifically needed for RA.

Also, with the online training you do not get that same depth of coverage. For example, when coming out of a school program you have had experience putting together submissions, and labelling, etc.. with the online you don't get that.

For the most part, those who enter the RA field may choose to seek further upgrades to their education and this is one way of doing in. In most cases, you would be required to join RAPS by your employer and that annual fee would be covered by them. They could also pay for you to take courses and upgrade.

RAPS along with CAPRA are great for networking and sharing information. By joining these you get a chance to stay up to date with industry and regulations by attending conferences and so on.

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RA Graduate in Toronto, Ontario

87 months ago

RAC (regulatory affairs certification) is a professional designation which one would acquire by writing the certification exam (100 multiple choice questions). From my understanding these exams are offered twice a year. Good thing to have to demonstrate your in-depth knowledge of reg. affairs. When I last checked out the RAPS website, they are now offering RAC-GEN, which I think encompasses all three (CAN, US, and EU). Personally, I would like to write this exam after working in the field for a couple of years.

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RA Graduate in Toronto, Ontario

87 months ago

Correction to the previous post:

RAC(GS)covers aspects of int'l reg. affairs (those not covered in CAN, EU, US) such as Asia, Latin America.

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X in Toronto, Ontario

87 months ago

In terms of usefulness, would you say RAC (US)> Rac (EU) > Rac (CAN), even for those working in Canada?

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Bob in Burlington, Ontario

87 months ago

The job of regulatory affairs department of a company is to have their product receive the official blessing of Health Canada so it can be sold to Canadians. The officals in Health Canada must also have had training in RA. So... do graduates from Humber or Seneca ever go to work for the government??

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E in Woodbridge, Ontario

87 months ago

first things first, Health Canada never gives its blessing or approve anything.....they simply "find no reason to NOT approve". Because you can imagine, they are only making a decision based on the info they have, there is never enough info to fully approve something as "safe". Anyway, I'm just pointing that out, but I know what you meant by it.

To answer your question, yes there are graduates that get hired by Health Canada every year from both schools. Keep in mind RA takes on a different role depending on which side you are on. In industry you are compiling and submitting based on regulations, etc...In gov't you are reviewing submissions.

That being said, not everyone simply reviews submissions, the people who are doing the reviews are industry experts, PhDs, pharmacists, etc...

So to answer your question, yes Health Canada does hire students from the two schools. What exactly those students do on their internship I'm not sure but personally thats what I would like to do.

If I don't have a chance to aim for an internship in Ottawa, I will forever be planning on making the move there from industry later on down the road.

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goz in Istanbul, Turkey

87 months ago

Hi E,

Seneca still does not tell me anything, they do not know yet whether I am accepted or not.the desicion has not been made as they say. does this mean I am not accepted? Do you have any idea since u know the process better?

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J in Vancouver, British Columbia

87 months ago

Hey Goz,

I am in the exact same situation as you. I called Seneca more than 10 times in last 2 weeks and no one has a definite answer for me.

J

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goz in Istanbul, Turkey

87 months ago

Really? I am going insaine ,I dunno whether I am moving there or not and we only left about a month..On top of that I need to get visa and have to work for two more weeks after I tell my company that I am quitting. I read that an applicant has been accepted on this forum and I thought everybody else knew their status except me.I called them yesterday and still theres no answer :( thank you so much for your respond

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E in Woodbridge, Ontario

87 months ago

I think its a messy situation. I will try here to shed some light on the situation.

They must look at all their candidates and make a decision on each one "yes or no".

X said that he got a message "may be eligible for acceptance" which is cryptic. But he called admissions and they confirmed it for him.

I would assume that he was one of the first people accepted, and they are still in the process of deciding the rest. Which would also explain why he never got a definate acceptance yet...

Perhaps once they have their list of 40 people, they send out that official acceptance to everyone all at once.

Anyway, I sympathize with your position. I know exactly how you feel because I went through the same thing. The best thing you can do is make a habit of calling them often and perhaps explain your situation to them if you havn't already.

Also, mention that someone else has been accepted and you would like to know when they anticipate sending out the responses. At least if you didn't get in you'd like to know that too right?

I'm not sure if it needs to be said, but you might be able to find a contact name on the Seneca webpage for the RA program and not someone in "admissions". I have found that admissions department who deals with all the programs might not know anything about the specific programs other than what they see on the screen. You need to talk to someone in the RA program department.

Alot of the time, admissions is just volunteer students from the school sitting there answering calls and taking messages. They wouldn't be very helpful to talk to

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booky in Brampton, Ontario

87 months ago

I got an official acceptance from Seneca mailed to me, dated early November. I'm sure official letters have been sent to the top 20 for the January start already. If I decide not to go with Seneca, my deadline is the end of November, and the next person in line will likely get a letter to take my spot after that date. Maybe if you haven't gotten an acceptance letter yet, you should ask about your rank on the waitlist so you can estimate your chances. Someone does have a waitlist somewhere so it's really about putting effort into digging up the right person to talk to.

At this point, they aren't going to send out rejection letters as they are trying to fill seats before turning anyone away. Rejection letters are typically sent out once all the seats are confirmed and paid for, and a few alternates are selected just in case. Think of it as a rolling admissions process instead of definate "Yes" or "No" decision. No news yet might be good news eventually.

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nalanda in Hyderabad, India

87 months ago

could anyone let me know the average pay a person would be getting once he finishes a course in regulatory affairs and enters an industry

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booky in Brampton, Ontario

87 months ago

Nalanda:

It depends on your qualifications. masters or phd's will probably expect higher pay. any starting position is typically $35 000+ (Canadian) minimally. Just because you see websites that say Regulatory Affairs people make over $100 000+, take that with a grain of salt because you don't know what their qualifications are. some might be doctors, others pharmacists, others might have worked in the industry for decades, and they will be compensated way more than someone with a fresh, general bachelors/masters degree.

It also depends on the company you work for. Some companies have set pay brackets and you have to work there for a certain amount of time before you get a pay raise. You have to work your way up to senior positions which come with many more responsibilities before you make the big bucks, just like in any job. Other companies might offer better benefit packages in lieu of higher pay. Other companies are small, and might not offer very much, except a steady job.

I have talked to some people who have just started out in the field after doing these programs, and the lowest I have heard is $35 000. It's really hard to try to get real numbers out of people, so I am just as anxious to hear from others too.

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mari in Toronto, Ontario

87 months ago

What kind of grades are needed from a bachelor's degree in order to be considered for the RA program?

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Tali in Montreal, Quebec

87 months ago

How are the work hours for RA's...is it a 9 to 5 job?

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quinton in Laval, Quebec

87 months ago

I have a bachelors degree in biochemistry and i have been working as a qc lab anaylst for a little over a year now. I want to make the transition to RA.I live in montreal and i want to know which one(humber or seneca) gives you the best chance to find a job in RA? And also which one of the two is the closest to montreal.

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E in Woodbridge, Ontario

87 months ago

if you're coming from montreal then for intensive purposes the two schools are the same distance away from you. I could drive from one to the other in maybe 15-20 minutes.

Noone can really tell you which one gives you a better chance, its impossible to tell. You have to look at the curriculum of each program, which believe it or not has a variety of differences.

You will realize that Seneca has alot of QC courses in the curriculum, humber does not. This is the main difference between the two. Do you want a full RA program or partial? In the end i'm not sure if that has any affect on employers but you would either have a wekk rounded RA education or and more broad education that covers both RA and QC.

You check the curriculums on the websites and you will see for yourself. Also, read all the old posts on here to see about tuition, and internships at the two schools .

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E in Woodbridge, Ontario

87 months ago

might I add to the last post....

considering you already have QC experience, perhaps you would be better off attending Humber for a RA program. That way when you are looking for a job you have an intensive RA education and QC background. You may not be looking for QC courses because you already know it, might as well use your time wisely and take only "new" courses.

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Alias in Brampton, Ontario

87 months ago

Hey E, you're quite the resource =) Your posts are worthwile and great to read. Can you shed some light on the job prospects for your internship currently since you're in the program right now? $6000 is a huge investment whilst knowing the job market isn't very promising ..

Thanks =)

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E in Woodbridge, Ontario

87 months ago

We don't really start the internship process until about Feb...but I am confident it will go well.

So far we are just digging up contact ourselves and preparing for Feb. I don't want to discredit the others in here who have had a hard time finding a position but just based on the contacts I had handed into the coordinator there are at least 3 positions becoming available. My biggest concern at this point is "How am I going to choose between them?"

Generally speaking, So far we know that Baxter is looking for at least 3-4 people, Sanofi is looking for 6 people. And just the other day I was in a conference call with someone at Health Canada that may lead to another 6 positions. This person claims to be very interested and wants to set something up immediately.

The way it works is those contacts that YOU hand in are yours. You get first dibs at them. Because think about it...I have valuable contacts, I don't want to compete with 39 other students for a position that I found. If that were the case I would just go on my own and find the position without going through the school. I'd hate to do all the leg work, find a great position and submit it to Humber and then all of a sudden everyone has a chance at that one position. Not everyone in here has the same amount of education background and competition might not be favorable. Hopefully you can understand why the system is the way it is. PLUS although the number is going down, there are still about 3 or 4 people from last year looking for internship. My concern is thst the school may give them priority for each new job so that they dont get left behind.
The fear that I bring in great contacts and they are given to someone else is truly unnerving.

Certain people will alway be better off when finding internships. Others will have no contacts and they just wait for general population job postings. Its still a better case than being out on the street looking for work without contacts.

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anilramani in Surat, India

87 months ago

Can anybody tell me about course time(12 -18 month) and fee structure of 3 of them Humber collage, Seneca, and TIPT?

I am interested in Regulatory affair and want to do this course. I have done my Bachelor of pharmacy from INDIA and master of science In Pharmaceutical Manufacturing Including Validation and regulatory affair Course From USA. right now i am working in INDIA as a QA Executive in pharmaceutical Company since last 4 month.

So, in which collage i can get admittion as soon as possible.

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meera in Maple, Ontario

86 months ago

I have checked out these institutions

www.aaps.ca/pradiploma.html
www.pscccanada.ca/
Humber college RA program
and TIPT.

I had started off my undergrad doing science and then switched to health policy in my third year. I have now an interest in RA. I have emailed TIPT to find out if I can with a health policy degree. They said yeh and so did humber college. The problem I did terrible with my science courses. Is RA program more business oriented??

Which institution would you guys recommend. How is aaps??? I have a friend who is a grad from there and now working.
thanks

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E in Woodbridge, Ontario

86 months ago

I would lump in aaps, pscc and tipt together. They are all private colleges.

Instead of writing here all kinds of comparisons, I'll urge you to go back and read past discussions on this forum. Essentially Humber or Seneca is the more reputable college in the eyes of employers....and thats what you want. On the other hand, if you don't feel confident about getting into the program, you may want to have a safety net and apply to tipt as well. TIPT will take anyone provided they meet requirements, as long as you have your fees paid you are in. At least if you don't get into the other school(s) you can fall back on TIPT.

The programs themselves, For the most part, having the degree in science is so that you have the background. The majority of the RA program does not require specific background. Its all regulations, legislation, clinical studies, etc...not "business" but its also not "science" as you know it.

If your concern is your grades, they only require that you have a degree. No specific grades or average BUT you must compete with many other people for admission and THAT brings the bar up. To do good and get into the program you can have terrible marks in the past, but you MUST be better than everyone else in the pre-admission testing. This includes a test, essay, and interviews.

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Alias in Brampton, Ontario

86 months ago

Hey E,

Thanks for the detailed response. I'm currently finishing up with my BSc. and in all honesty I feel anxious, lost and uncertain of the future in terms of pursuing a career. RA appealead to me and hence the sudden interest.

However, investing in a program and then not being able to find a job is making me a little hesitant to apply into this years batch for which the deadline is quickly approaching.

A person like me has no contacts in the industry. I also don't know *how* to make those contacts and hence I will have to rely on the posted jobs which the majority of the class will be competing for.

My other concern is my lack of knowledge about the field. I don't know the intricacies nor the technicalities? Where do I turn, where do I look to find out more as I have heard the interview/essay questions quiz you on fundamentals of the industry.

A little guidance would be helpful, please. Thank you for your time =)

Respectfully,

A

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X in Toronto, Ontario

86 months ago

Alias,
two things I can suggest.
1. shell out 100 dollars and join the Toronto Biotech Initiative (student membership). They have monthly breakfast meetings and other social events for biotech/life science people. Great venue for networking. I'm sure you'll run into a reg. affairs professional or two. Start your networking from there.

2. Spend some $ to purchase (from RAPS, for example) or try and look up online PDF versions of reg affairs-related books. I've done both. These resources have given me some ideas about what RA is like.

Good luck.

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E in Woodbridge, Ontario

86 months ago

at the point you are at right now, they do not expect you to know everything about RA.
You will have to show that you have an interest in the program and the field .
Aside from the above suggestiongs, CAPRA events may be helpful. Once you say that you are a student they dont really check, and you can attend events for free.
As far as learning about the profession. Just spend a few hours on google. Look up job ads, they describe duties and responsibilities.
I also found that if you go to tipt website, or aaps, seneca, etc. they all have little blurbs about the profession and so on. You can try typing in various search terms on google.

You can also look at the course schedule on the school website (Humber/seneca/tipt) and then google those names. For example: "Medical devices" "Agrichemicals" "Canadian Provincial Reimbursement" You can read up on those and get a topline view of the various parts of RA.
Then you just go and wow them on the essay. Drop as many of those names as you can and show that you know about them.
Finally, Health Canada website is a great tool if you just mess around on their website, everything is free and easy to use. You can familiarize yourself with the departments and so on.

In the interview, you are not expected to know everything. They want to see that you know SOMETHING about it. Also, you have to be very careful to resist that urge to bulls_hit any answers that you don't know. In some other interviews as long as you keep a straight face and give an answer you portray yourself as knowledgeable. In this case, they know way more about the answers than you could imagine. They want to hear something like "Well I don't know specifics but I would love the opportunity to learn all about ___ and other things like Medical Devices, Agrichemicals, reimbursement, etc.. in the program"

Plus you could say something like "I honestly don't know but I could find that answer and get back to you"

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mranon in North York, Ontario

86 months ago

School might not be the answer. The one course I took at Seneca was a HUGE joke. I think working your way up is better.

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Alias in Brampton, Ontario

86 months ago

Thank you both X and E for the such resourceful insight =). Once I'm completed my finals for this term, I will certainly look into the options you guys have described!

Thanks a lot. I'll try 'n keep you guys posted.

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Jasmine in Toronto, Ontario

86 months ago

www.aaps.ca/pradiploma.html
www.pscccanada.ca/
Humber college RA program
and TIPT

Does anyone know... out of aaps, pscc, Humber, or TIPT, which of these has a lower fees requirement? I know TIPT is expensive as posted.

thanks so much!

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X in Toronto, Ontario

86 months ago

Humber and Seneca have lower fees - around $5K for Seneca and $5.5K for Humber.

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Jasmine in Toronto, Ontario

86 months ago

thanks. Do you by any chance know the fees for aaps or pscc?

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Jasmine in Toronto, Ontario

86 months ago

Im having trouble deciding whether its worth doing nursing now and entering another 4 years of schooling or doing 1 year of RA?
I did life science thinking that I might do medicine later on, however have lost that desire. I know I really want to do nursing. However I really want to work for a couple of years in RA because I have somekind of interest there too?
I know TIPT and aaps fees is somewhere in 11K which I think I would rather invest in nursing and would be able to finish two years of nursing with that money.

So is Humber and Seneca with the lowest fee ??
thanks again!

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