American Legal System: A Farse?

Short answer: YES.

New Ripoff: If you're a court certified interpreter and you work as an independant contractor in CA then you've probably noticed a DRASTIC reduction in assignments coming from interpreting agencies. That is because interpreting agencies are now sending out ADMINISTRATIVELY certified interpreters to do depositions and the like. They PASS THEM OFF AS "STATE CERTIFIED", pay the administrative certified interpreters MUCH LESS than the court certified AND THEN THEY POCKET THE DIFFERENCE FOR THEMSELVES. Neat huh?.

Since no one controls or checks the certifications of independant interpreters they (the agencies) are able to get away with these shenanigans. Also, since CFI and CWA only represent (and quite UNSUCCESSFULLY at that) court interps who are EMPLOYEES, they couldn't care less either.

Welcome to America, home of the FRAUD.

And how is this the American Legal System's fault?? If there is fraud your logic doesn't seem to fault the real culprit, the "Agencies" who are businesses whose main goal is to "make money" if you can't make money or get assignments in court my friend then I suggest you hustle and make money outside of the courts, don't blame the American Legal System because you can't figure out something as simple as the free market. America = the land of opportunity, not the land of unionized entitlement.

"When I was a child I saw thru a childs eyes, but now that I am grown I see things as a man".

Well, that's me & the American Legal System. I used to think the judges and courts administered "justice". Hahahaha. I was so naive. The judges and courtrooms administer THE LAW ONLY. And even THAT they manage to mangle every now and then. They wouldn't recognize 'justice' if it flew over their heads and crapped on them. His or her "honor" is REALLY just a cheap attorney in an even cheaper black robe. Yet these psychopeacocks strut around as if they had the Moral Authority of GOD Himself.

Didn't we have a revolution PRECISELY to get rid of this ROYALTY crap thing?.

ElCheapo in Los Angeles, California said: New Ripoff: If you're a court certified interpreter and you work as an independant contractor in CA then you've probably noticed a DRASTIC reduction in assignments coming from interpreting agencies. That is because interpreting agencies are now sending out ADMINISTRATIVELY certified interpreters to do depositions and the like. They PASS THEM OFF AS "STATE CERTIFIED", pay the administrative certified interpreters MUCH LESS than the court certified AND THEN THEY POCKET THE DIFFERENCE FOR THEMSELVES. Neat huh?.

Since no one controls or checks the certifications of independant interpreters they (the agencies) are able to get away with these shenanigans. Also, since CFI and CWA only represent (and quite UNSUCCESSFULLY at that) court interps who are EMPLOYEES, they couldn't care less either.

Welcome to America, home of the FRAUD.

HEY CHEAPO. U R FULL OF ANGER... GO AND TAKE SOME PILLS, MAN,

The guy is complaining about the fact that there's no work because agencies hire unqualified interpreters AND YOU CALL HIM ANGRY?.

Well DUH, not everyone in this profesion is a stupid w****** willing to work for peanuts. Maybe THAT'S the reason you Mexicans LOST HALF YOUR NATIONAL TERRITORY.
You just take it up the a** TOO EASILY.

people work for peanuts because they need the money, they probably don't have computers like you or time , like you, to be nasty and angry.... people want to work.... people who come from other countries are willing to make an effort at first and work in anythin..not like you.. im sure...

hi... Im not mexican, first of all and I call him angry because that anger is misdirected.... it should not be directed to CFI or CWA but to the agencies themselves...you can always report that to the corresponding venue or you can be more pro active and instead of being angry, find a way to correct the problem... no good to feel like a victim... do something...

ANAIS SILVANA in California said: HEY CHEAPO. U R FULL OF ANGER... GO AND TAKE SOME PILLS, MAN,

well. of course CFI represents employees .. that is why we pay them money every month.. or are you saying that they CFI should also represent those who are not employees? why should they do that? thay are not paying money... you want the cake and eat it too.. that is not the way it works...

Joe Blow in Los Angeles, California said: The guy is complaining about the fact that there's no work because agencies hire unqualified interpreters AND YOU CALL HIM ANGRY?.

Well DUH, not everyone in this profesion is a stupid w****** willing to work for peanuts. Maybe THAT'S the reason you Mexicans LOST HALF YOUR NATIONAL TERRITORY.
You just take it up the a** TOO EASILY.

and besides you should not be using names as Joe Blow...it is not appropiate for this forum

You're rambling on like a babbling idiot.

No one should work for peanuts, that is what the courts are paying independent contractors.
When I interpret a depo I ALWAYS show my court certification, I never work for less than $200.00 per half day and I always work. A lot of my work comes from referrals from other interpreters, so undercutting their rates would not serve me well.

Dignity please in Arcadia, California said: No one should work for peanuts, that is what the courts are paying independent contractors.
When I interpret a depo I ALWAYS show my court certification, I never work for less than $200.00 per half day and I always work. A lot of my work comes from referrals from other interpreters, so undercutting their rates would not serve me well.

I think the OP has a point. Dignity says she always shows her court certification, but the fact is someone at the depo should be *asking you* to see your cert badge. I've been doing depos for years and have only been asked to show my cert badge about thrice in all that time. I'm *positive* they're indeed using non-certified interps at depos and passing them off as court certified.

As for rates I know that for Spanish many are working 1/2 days for $110 to $130 so that's got to *definitely* impact adversely those who charge above that amount.

That makes no sense. Why would anyone work for less than court rates? Right now the going rate for major agencies for a half day trial is $500, not a bad margin, so there is no reason to undervalue ourselves. And yes, they should ask for your cert id., but they don't, volunteer it, state the number for the record, then do a great job and when you get a compliment, explain the difference between certifications. Educating the attorneys works. Most of the firms I've done this with now specificaly request COURT CERTIFIED, from the agencies. Btw, so does the law

Sorry but what doesn't make sense is saying that the going rate for a half day trial is $500. That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard!. Not even an "exotic" can charge that much except in very special circumstances that are certainly not the norm. Much less for Spanish were the competition is cutthroat. I'm starting to doubt you know what you're talking about. In fact $500 is probably even too much to charge for a half day conference unless the terminology is very specialized.

And it's not that interpreters "undervalue themselves". It's the agencies that truly set the fees by giving priority to those that charge less so that their own profit margins can be greater. People will work for less than court rates when they find they're sitting sat home because another interpreter took the job for significantly less. Are you even certified?. I'm amazed that you should say these things. It's almost as if you had no real world knowledge of all these facts. The fact is *only* courts pay the established per-diem because they have to by law. Any other venue is based on supply & demand.

Finally, it serves no purpose for me to voluntarily show my certification. It should *be asked for* by the party taking the depo to *guarantee* that the interpreter is qualified. Only when this becomes a common practice will the unqualified & uncertified be weeded out. Attorneys don't want to be educated about certifications. They couldn't care less. They let their legal staff worry about hiring the interpreter.

I can understand why Al Falfa is so aggressive. Most of the information I'm reading in these forums regarding court interpreting particularly as far as earnings go are either deliberatly mis-stated or just plain wrong.

How can a country that RAPES LITTLE GIRLS, then MURDERS HER TOGETHER WITH HER WHOLE FAMILY just to cover up the crime ever pretend to administer "JUSTICE"?. How can a nation of war criminal PERVERTS pretend to have a valid credible legal system?. How can a country built on SLAVERY, TORTURE and MURDER ever believably state it represents "good"?.

IT CAN'T yanquis hijos de remil putas!.

it must be a good country because it allows you to write what you just wrote.. im sure that the country u come from..it is MUCH better... no rapes, no slavery, no corruption, no torture..and a lot of justice.. that is why you didn't stay in the country u were born? by the way.. you write pretty good english... emm... the official language the country u so much abhor... contradiction my comandante... pero.. te digo... vuelve a tu pais, vuelve. te pago el pasaje.. dame tu nombre y te escribo un cheque... quiero que seas feliz.. vuelve, vuelve y lucha desde afuera.

Quick question. I just visited CA and absolutely loved it. I have applied for several Staff Int. positions. Can anyone tell me how secure are these positions presently? I keep hearing about CA state jobs cuts, etc. I know it is a relative question, but I just don't want to leave a secure situation for a shaky one.

Thanks.

I also forgot to mention that we had 3 interpreters from Ca moving here on 2006. I assume that some of the circumstances which prompted their departure might have improved after last year's strike.

I am already certified Federally and in Ca.

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated!

for the time being they are not hiring in Los Angeles but they are in Orange county and in San Mateo and in Visalia.... u have a job there for sure.

ANAIS SILVANA in California said: for the time being they are not hiring in Los Angeles but they are in Orange county and in San Mateo and in Visalia.... u have a job there for sure.

Thank you, Anais.

I already applied to several counties. I still would like to have an idea of how stable is employment for staff court interpreters in the middle of Ca's state budget cuts.

well, if one of those counties hire you, it is because they need you... if u r hired..it is because they will keep u.

Mil Gracias, Anais!

NJ Dude in Newark, New Jersey said: I also forgot to mention that we had 3 interpreters from Ca moving here on 2006. I assume that some of the circumstances which prompted their departure might have improved after last year's strike.

I am already certified Federally and in Ca.

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated!

i wonder why these 3 interpreters moved to NJ. I have a feeling it might have little to do with the strike and more related to personal issues...

ANAIS SILVANA in California said: i wonder why these 3 interpreters moved to NJ. I have a feeling it might have little to do with the strike and more related to personal issues...

Probably.

I spent last weekend in the LA area and I wouldnt leave if I could help it.

i know for sure orange county is hiring. That area is beautiful and the courthouses are great to work at. yeah.. the weather here is nice

ANAIS SILVANA in California said: i know for sure orange county is hiring. That area is beautiful and the courthouses are great to work at. yeah.. the weather here is nice

I liked the people too and the outdoorsy mindset. Tienes Y! Messenger?

is it hrugeles@yahoo/com?

ANAIS SILVANA in California said: is it hrugeles@yahoo/com?

yes

NJ Dude in Newark, New Jersey said: I also forgot to mention that we had 3 interpreters from Ca moving here on 2006. I assume that some of the circumstances which prompted their departure might have improved after last year's strike.

I am already certified Federally and in Ca.

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated!

* The strikes not only resulted in NO improvements for CA court interpreters labor-wise, but in fact it showed how weak & poorly organized we are as a group. In fact the court administrators realized during the strike that they could continue to operate efficiently with just 20% of the remaining interpreter workforce available. This resulted in a drastic cutdown (if not SHUTDOWN) of independant interpreter hiring. It also resulted in almost no new positions opening for employee wannabes in LA and other counties.

* Orange Co -as I understand it- has FILLED all its employee interpreter positions already. You see once many independants saw what was coming they literally scrambled to secure themselves employee positions and quickly filled up what little was available.

* In NJ being federally certified means you are a Master Interpreter (like me, blush) and can make $318.50 a day as an independant and a quite respectable salary as an employee. Not only that but you'll have significant periodic yearly cost-of-living adjustments. In CA you WON'T get that and as a matter of fact you'll probably go YEARS without seeing ANY KIND OF RAISE AT ALL like most of us have. What you will do is watch as EVERY OTHER court employee and dept gets one tho.

* In NJ you have team interpreting. Every half hour someone will give you a much needed break. In CA you can drop dead interpreting because no one cares if you're tired.

*In NJ court interpreters are respected by the administration MUCH MORE than in CA. Quite frankly these californicans have a little White Supremecist thing going and the racism is very tangible.

Couldn't fit any more in my previous response, so here I continue;

* A positive for CA: in Cali you get 1.5 hr lunch break vs just one hour in Jersey. In both states they'll usually let you leave around 4:30pm instead of requiring you to stay til 5pm per the employee contract.

* In NJ you can expect to find headphones and other interpreter equipment readily available. In CA most courts expect you to provide your own or have very limited resources in this aspect.

* In CA they are now making certified court interpreters man the Self-Help Centers and information booths at the courthouses which I personally find very demeaning as a professional. There's also talk of making us carry files and do other clerical work as well in order to fillup our down-time.

* The union representation for interpreters in CA leaves MUCH to be desired whereas in Jersey the union is quite strong and respected. Curiously both states interpreters are represented by CWA. You have to know that CA is VERY anti-union in general as opposed to the East Coast where unions are very strong.

*There are social issues to consider too if you're a native eastcoaster like me moving to Cali. You'll probably find the social scene in Cali lacking because Southern CA is one of the most superficial, materialistic and culturally-deprived areas of the USA.

Finally, I myself worked last year in Northern Jersey and NY and if I could find an employee position in a nice vicinage like Hudson Co or such I'd JUMP at the chance to grab it. I personally opine that career-wise for an interpreter NJ has MUCH MORE to offer than CA, however I'm aware that there are indeed other factors that come into play. Drop me a line if you want and we can chat this topic further. At the risk of getting mobbed by Al Falfa here's my e-mail: interpretame@sbcglobal.net.

Good luck & God bless.

Dan:
your experience is not mine and other's . I don't know where u work but i work in a big courthouse,and what u describe is just bull..
numero one: u r wrong... we also have 1 hour for lunch per our contract but it is not implemented..and no supervisor has ever told me I have to be back in the office at 1pm. we take 1.5 hour but we should be taking 1 hour. supervisors are flexible there. so, callate, si no sabes..

numero dos: our supervisor brought us wireless equipment some time ago, that I have personally used. we also have a big seinheisser in the building for multiple defendants. it is your choice if u want to use ur own... i use my own and sometimes the big one.
callate, tampoco sabes eso.

numero tres: self-help? clerical work..completely not true. it does not happen in my building and we would never allow it. there is no talk about that and I can assure i would be the first to go on another strike if it happens.

numero cuatro: look.. there are superficial people everywhere,not only in California... materialistic??? hello..this is not Cuba and if u don't like capitalism u go back and live in a more socialist country. I consider myself not materialist and not superficial at all. and I m here in California for other reasons.

culturally deprived?? well..that would depend on you..there is a large cultural scene in California but if u spend so much time complaining on this forum you will never find it.

what is ur problem? really.. where do u work that u r so disatisfied....

Dan in Los Angeles, California said: * The strikes not only resulted in NO improvements for CA court interpreters labor-wise, but in fact it showed how weak & poorly organized we are as a group. In fact the court administrators realized during the strike that they could continue to operate efficiently with just 20% of the remaining interpreter workforce available. This resulted in a drastic cutdown (if not SHUTDOWN) of independant interpreter hiring. It also resulted in almost no new positions opening for employee wannabes in LA and other counties.

* Orange Co -as I understand it- has FILLED all its employee interpreter positions already. You see once many independants saw what was coming they literally scrambled to secure themselves employee positions and quickly filled up what little was available.

* In NJ being federally certified means you are a Master Interpreter (like me, blush) and can make $318.50 a day as an independant and a quite respectable salary as an employee. Not only that but you'll have significant periodic yearly cost-of-living adjustments. In CA you WON'T get that and as a matter of fact you'll probably go YEARS without seeing ANY KIND OF RAISE AT ALL like most of us have. What you will do is watch as EVERY OTHER court employee and dept gets one tho.

* In NJ you have team interpreting. Every half hour someone will give you a much needed break. In CA you can drop dead interpreting because no one cares if you're tired.

*In NJ court interpreters are respected by the administration MUCH MORE than in CA. Quite frankly these californicans have a little White Supremecist thing going and the racism is very tangible.[/QU
no strike will be succesful if there are scabs who are willing to work..and what are u more angry at the union than at the administrators who think we don't deserve the salary steps that other employees have?
u have an inferiority complex ..there is no white supremacy thing...u feel it thar way for personal issues.

ANAIS SILVANA in California said:

My you seem like quite an angry person; are you another pseudonym for Al Falfa?. Excuse me but I don't believe you're qualified to do an over-the-internet psychiatric evaluation of whether or not I have an 'inferiority complex'. The truth of the matter is I'm simply making an objective observation based on my personal experience. Have YOU ever worked or even lived outside of CA so as to draw an educated comparison as I have?. How many black or latino judges/DA's are there in CA?.
5?.

As for your 'scab' comments; it just goes to show how angry & divided the whole court interpreter community is in CA.

Please address the issues you wish to dispute thru reasonable commentary (if capable) and refrain from personal attacks.

Thank you.

ok. Dan.

Im not Alfalfa or any other vegetable. True...although I think I read people pretty well it is not the forum to do a psychological evaluation. u r right.
Yes,I was not born in this country and I have lived and worked in New York. At present in my building there are more black and latino judges than "white" judges...
I don't consider the term " scab" derogatory..it is just the name it is given to those who cross the picket lines when there is a strike.. the term refers to the "costra" that an injury leaves when u r hurt.and the scabs hurt the strike....
The term division is very abstract..during the strike some interpreters agreed with it and some others did not. That does not mean we are divided.
And everthing is Life is divided..it is utopian to find concert of minds and agreement in everything we do.. division could be good..
I went on strike because I respected the vote of the MAJORITY of my colleagues... Nothing is perfect..no union, no government. no ideals.. we evaluate and balance things out and make our own decisions.
I work in a very diversified courthouse where there is an understanding of convergence of cultures.
My anger is directed to those who only think in terms of how much money they can save or make despite their principles... the "ME" factor has been very detrimental to this world and it is alive in some interpreters who get very defensive when people want to make sacrifices and leave their ego aside in search for the betternment of ALL.

-numero uno; I am NOT your relative nor friend that you should direct yourself to me in such a rude manner, telling me to 'shut up'. The fact remains that REGARDLESS of the reasons behind it interps in CA get 1.5 hr lunches and NJ interps do not.

-numero dos; Per your own admission YOU work in a 'big courthouse' and thus have listening equipment available. Most smaller peripheral courts do not. You should learn to see the BIG picture and not spew erroneous critscisms based on your own limited & narrow personal experiences.

-numero tres; The interpreters at Lamoreux Justice Center in OC for example are currently assisting the self help office and also interpret in civil hearings, which they shouldn't be required to do. Please INFORM yourself BEFORE shooting off the mouth so readily.

-numero cuatro; The uniquely shallow, superficial and extremely materialistic lifestyle of Southern Californians is already extensive public knowledge and has been commented upon in many other public forums. It is mentioned in books referred to in movies and discussed among well-rounded travellers. You need not take the statement of this fact personally.

As for being culturally deprived; I believe that by simply reading the way you choose to respond to & address others proves my point beyond the need for any further argument. Thank you.

u r funny..we are both angry for different reasons...
te mando un beso

ANAIS SILVANA in California said: u r funny..we are both angry for different reasons...
te mando un beso

Lol. You're right. Beso aceptado. Amigos.
:-)

i think we put our anger together we can change things...

Dan in Los Angeles, California said: * The strikes not only resulted in NO improvements for CA court interpreters labor-wise, but in fact it showed how weak & poorly organized we are as a group. In fact the court administrators realized during the strike that they could continue to operate efficiently with just 20% of the remaining interpreter workforce available. This resulted in a drastic cutdown (if not SHUTDOWN) of independant interpreter hiring. It also resulted in almost no new positions opening for employee wannabes in LA and other counties.

* Orange Co -as I understand it- has FILLED all its employee interpreter positions already. You see once many independants saw what was coming they literally scrambled to secure themselves employee positions and quickly filled up what little was available.

* In NJ being federally certified means you are a Master Interpreter (like me, blush) and can make $318.50 a day as an independant and a quite respectable salary as an employee. Not only that but you'll have significant periodic yearly cost-of-living adjustments. In CA you WON'T get that and as a matter of fact you'll probably go YEARS without seeing ANY KIND OF RAISE AT ALL like most of us have. What you will do is watch as EVERY OTHER court employee and dept gets one tho.

* In NJ you have team interpreting. Every half hour someone will give you a much needed break. In CA you can drop dead interpreting because no one cares if you're tired.

*In NJ court interpreters are respected by the administration MUCH MORE than in CA. Quite frankly these californicans have a little White Supremecist thing going and the racism is very tangible.

wow,, i kinda suspected what you just said about cal interp. true about here in NJ also. thanks.

Dear Ana and Dan,

I do thank you for giving me a very good idea of what's cooking over there. Dan you do know your NJ system. Right on target. Thanks for taking the time to give me such complete and balanced answer. Ana, I also thank you for taking time to answer all my inquiries.

It does get my attention that the CWA gets such diametrically opposed results in in NJ v. CA. We do command a lot of respect here in NJ. In addition, I would not think too highly of those who go against the majority's decision, specially when it is a just cause such as asking for fair salaries for all interpreters. The worst part is that they will reap the benefits of the efforts carried out by others. Divide and conquer is a proven tactic.

Treating interpreters as lower class employees by any Judiciary would make one wonder about the motivation and belief system of the power brokers. It does show ignorance of the effort and price that one has to pay to become a certified Interpreter. Here in NJ the passing rate is very low for interpreters' tests, hence the few that make it through do demmand some respect and fair compensation.

Respect and dignity levels do vary from one courthouse to another here as well. Places like where I work, and others, do love and treat their interpreters with respect and dignity. But I do know at least other Vicinage, that I won't mention, which sees us as an overpaid unecessary nuissance. It's the attitude of "why they (the clients) don't learn English instead of wasting tax-payers money." Ignorant, to say the least.

Thanks.

You're welcome NJ Dude. Lemme know if I can provide any further info. In the meanwhile I'd like to ask you what you know -if anything- about Middlesex Vicinage. They offered me a position in New Brunswick but I'm not really that familiar with the area. All I know is that Rutgers is there.

Dan in Los Angeles, California said: You're welcome NJ Dude. Lemme know if I can provide any further info. In the meanwhile I'd like to ask you what you know -if anything- about Middlesex Vicinage. They offered me a position in New Brunswick but I'm not really that familiar with the area. All I know is that Rutgers is there.

MS is cool. It's on New Brunswick, nice college town. Good transportation system. Train to NYC, etc. The Int. staff (about 5 people) is nice too. Go for it! You'll have to take a pay cut though at first. Masters start at 57/59K go up to 87/89 w time. REnt is better there too. 5% COLA every Jan + contracted pay increases in jan and jul. Med ins costs $0. Plus other benefits.

"FARSE" IS SPELLED F A R C E

"FARSE" IS SPELLED F A R Z E

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source - Share This
farce /fɑrs/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[fahrs] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation noun, verb, farced, farc·ing.
–noun 1. a light, humorous play in which the plot depends upon a skillfully exploited situation rather than upon the development of character.
2. humor of the type displayed in such works.
3. foolish show; mockery; a ridiculous sham.

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source - Share This
farze /fÉ‘rs/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[fahrz] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation noun, verb, farzed, farz‚·ing.
–noun 1. a light, humorous play in which the plot depends upon a skillfully exploited situation rather than upon the development of character.
2. humor of the type displayed in such works.
3. foolish show; mockery; a ridiculous sham.

Muy chistoso, Windy! ja ja

Dan in Los Angeles, California said: Sorry but what doesn't make sense is saying that the going rate for a half day trial is $500. That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard!. Not even an "exotic" can charge that much except in very special circumstances that are certainly not the norm. Much less for Spanish were the competition is cutthroat. I'm starting to doubt you know what you're talking about. In fact $500 is probably even too much to charge for a half day conference unless the terminology is very specialized.

And it's not that interpreters "undervalue themselves". It's the agencies that truly set the fees by giving priority to those that charge less so that their own profit margins can be greater. People will work for less than court rates when they find they're sitting sat home because another interpreter took the job for significantly less. Are you even certified?. I'm amazed that you should say these things. It's almost as if you had no real world knowledge of all these facts. The fact is *only* courts pay the established per-diem because they have to by law. Any other venue is based on supply & demand.

Finally, it serves no purpose for me to voluntarily show my certification. It should *be asked for* by the party taking the depo to *guarantee* that the interpreter is qualified. Only when this becomes a common practice will the unqualified & uncertified be weeded out. Attorneys don't want to be educated about certifications. They couldn't care less. They let their legal staff worry about hiring the interpreter.

I can understand why Al Falfa is so aggressive. Most of the information I'm reading in these forums regarding court interpreting particularly as far as earnings go are either deliberatly mis-stated or just plain wrong.

I said " the going rate for major agencies for a half day trial is $500, not a bad margin, so there is no reason to undervalue ourselves" That is what the agencies charge for my services.