AUTOMOTIVE TECHNICAINS DONT GET PAID WELL !

Mechanics Choice in Manteno, Illinois said: If You feel that it is hard to book 40 hours in a 40 hour week let me say....
I talked to a local Firestone dealer and they told me that the labor rate is $105.00 per hour and the Techs are booking 30 to 40 hours a day. Thats not a misprint, 30 to 40 hours a day.Who is getting ripped off? I know that I am a great tech. My customers tell me so everyday. To all the people who say the pen can make you more money then the wrench,Good luck with that. It is time for the Customer to understand what is best for them,and the rest will take care of itself.

I wrote this to see if any one would say anything about booking 30 to 40 hours in 1 day, I feel the only way you can book that many hours every day is to rip people off. Lets face it I don’t care how good you are we all have off days, stuff that just don’t go right. I do not like what I see in the automotive world. I and doing what I think I should do. I see shops closing all around me, small and large. Including the one I worked for. I was a shop owner for years and a tech for one of largest Chevy dealers in Illinois, ran 3 shops for other owners and now” I will begin again.” But I have learned a lot from other people’s mistakes. I found a shop that has had a hard time making a go of it, and I will rent it and run it as my own. There are a lot of shops sitting with racks and other tools that are not being used. If you think you can, or you have already ran a shop, I suggest you look in to this. But I must say if you don’t have anyone to go in on the shop be start a small 4 bay shop is great. Something with low rent, and low utilities bills. Better yet I found a building that was a car dealer ship that stills sells cars but the shop had been open for about 1 year. 4 bays, 3 lifts, brake Lathe, tire machine, Wheel balancer. I will split heat and electric bills. I will need a second person to help to keep the work flowing but if I have to I could make the bills o

Retired in Chagrin Falls, Ohio said: Ever wonder why people think of automobile techs as low intelligence individuals that aren't worth a second thought? Just read most of these posts and MAYBE you'll figure it out. Don't get me wrong, some posts are good but most lack common sense and a view of the BIG picture, and I'm not knocking the truly handicapped either. Here are just a few things to consider before you write.

^^ The truth!!!
I have been in 2 dealers since 1996. I make more every year, not because I kill myself and turn more hrs, but because I work smarter, and make myself more valuable to the dealer. The majority of people responding here are showing a lack of intelligence. The way people talk, and represent themselves goes a long way. I have seen many self proclaimed TECHS come and go, always with the real techs laughing as they load their box.
Your not going to get rich working on cars, but my family lives just fine in the industry. I will do this as long as my body will let me.

Obviously we a found this forum cuz we feel there is an issue with the flat rate system. It wasn't just conincidence. Just like you said you will do this as long as your body allows you to. Think about all the daily affects and hazards of being an automotive tech. Exposure to cancer causing agents on your skin from all the chemicals, cuts and bruises of all sorts, back problems, shoulder problems, joint problems, knee problems, all the nasty stuff u breathe in all day affecting your lungs, exposure to hot things possibly beige burnt are just to name a few. If you weigh all the pros and cons being a "flat rate" tech loses every time. Like I said 3 guys on my dealership do well but they've been there 20 plus years. The young bucks like us have no chance until they retire. If I would have went to school to be a mill wright, a electrician, etc I would already be a journey man making $20+ an hour. Think about it.

You made the decision to work on cars for a living. I'm guessing no one forced you to do it. If you don't like it, do something else...
Your correct that it takes a toll on the body, so do most other jobs in some fashion. Go ask a electrician, a plummer, construction workers. Hell my dad drove truck for 25 years, it took a toll on him.
I think this is a common problem in this country under Oboma these days, everyone thinks their entitled to more. It is no ones fault but yours. Work harder, get better. My guess is the 3 guys making more are better techs. The fact is the dealer doesn't care if you have been there 1 or 20 years, they want the best person doing the work. Fastest with the least come backs.

@Nxcobra in Milton, Tennessee. Yes I choose this profession and I invested $5000 for 2 year schooling, invested $25000 in tools, sacrificed my body and 8 years to a profession that has left me with a sore back and searching for a new career. The 3 guys in the shop make $24 flat rate cuz they've got the experience to go with it and thats why they make good money while i only make $16 flat rate. Thats the difference in our wage. you're blasting people when you dont know the half. so you're recommendation is I just quit my job, stop supporting my family (wife and 2 kids), stop paying my mortgage and every other bill, and just pay for more school in a new profession. it will take at least 2 years to go back to school full time and another 3-5 years before i become established in another profession where i am making a good wage again. I've busted my ass for this dealership when times where good but we all know that dealerships would all have 40 techs and pay them flat rate cuz it doesn't costs them 1 penny for them to come in and sit 8 hours not doing a damn thing. you're clueless. I fell even worse for the people who went to UTI and wasted at least $24,000 in schooling cuz UTI has terrible placement program. the average annual income for a plumber is $47,000 according to the bureau of labor statistics and the average for an automotive tech is $35,000. quite a difference. do your research before you run your mouth about something you know nothing of. it seems you have a lot of resentment built up. Maybe you're mad about something.

I have no resentment built up. I have been with same dealer for 9 years now, and am at he top of my game. I have not made less than 55k the last 8 years , except 09 when I made only 48k.
I made no mention of other jobs wages, so I'm unsure what research I need to do?
So by reading your post, you think you should be paid the same as the guys that are better techs than you?
My problem is people that think they deserve more.
As far as what you do to support your.family, you have to make that call. If I couldn't support mine good enough, I sure wouldn't be on the internet bitching. I would be flipping burgers or whatever it took ......

@ Nxcobra. I didn't say I didn't make any money. I don't make enough money to live comfortable for what I feel should be a respectable profession. $28000-$30000 isn't a respectable income for 2 years of schooling, and constant continuing education cuz automotive technology is always changing. $25000 in tools considering the plumber only need a bucket full of tools costing him probably no more than a couple hundred dollars. Same applies to a electrician or mill wright. I could make more money cooking although not for a fast food joint. Your just trying to send insults my way recommending I just pick up and get a new job cuz it's that easy. I have ZERO experience in anythig else, and I have no certificates, training and degrees to do anything else so how would I do that? And if you're anything like me you're a family man and being a family man doesn't mean just being able to provide for them but also being physically there. So if I'm working restaurant/ retail hours meaning nights and weekends, and not being there as a father cuz my kids are in school and my wife works 8- 5. And if supporting your family" (in your words) is doing what it takes including flipping burgers is what I'm suppose to do then how will I live it up that the only fond memory my kids will have of me is that dad worked hard but that's all he ever did. He worked so hard so we could have the ps3, the nice clothes, BUT he was never there physically cuz all he did was work. I'm not saying being a tech makes u poor but if u consider it all, the schooling, tools, and abuse on the body, and finally the AVERAGE annual salary there's other things you could do that pay more where u have to invest less. The top tech in our dealerships make $100,000 but how many techs make that? And how much of that $100,000 is honest dollars. Every other tech in other shops will speak this of dealership as if there is 2 ways to fix a car 1) the flat rate way 2) the right way.

I never said I should be paid more than them But I should be paid more period. I'm more efficient. I'm faster, I'm younger, I'm hungrier, but they've got more experience, they make more money, they have it better with the managers who also have been there 20+ years with them. How are they any better than me. There u go again insulting me, disrespecting me and you don't even know me on that level. We are the same techs specializing in the same brand. Went to the same technical college, with all the same certificates, and produce when theres work. So how does that make them better than me? I believe with their experience they deserve their pay but shouldnt mine be a lil closer to $18-19 not $16 after 8 years. If I had 8 years in another profession with all same respectable certificates I'd be a journeyman making $20+ an hour no doubt. So would you. We became techs cuz we enjoy working on cars and why not make a living enjoying what u do. Problem is most of us can't make a living on it. We just get by. That's not enough.

If your actually a valuable part of your dealership, than you should be getting paid what you deserve, or go elsewhere. It's that simple..
If you think your pay is to low, then go talk to your boss. I can not speak on your skill level, but where I am we are paid based on what were worth. I get a raise every time I ask. Some don't, not because they aren't hungry or young, but because there not as good, or valuable. It's just cold hard facts. The sooner you learn, the better off you will be.

Nxcobra in Milton, Tennessee said:
I think this is a common problem in this country under Oboma these days, everyone thinks their entitled to more. It is no ones fault but yours.

No. Working for free, favoritism, union busting, and pension stealing still sucked when Bush Jr. was president.
It's time to put our heads together for a change.

The only thing a union is good for, is protecting the mediocre.

so im reading a lot of complaints but i am wondering if i can ask a question. But here is the deal, I am on disability and only making 700 a month. Its not a lot but i manage. I am looking at going to school to become a mechanic because i love working on my jeep. I dont want to loose my disability and want to work on cars at my house just for some extra cash. Is it worth doing or no? I just want to do straight at my house or mobile mechanics not working for a shop.

If you do it at your house, make sure you are a limited corporation and have insurance. Mechanics who have done work and had no insurance, were sued by at least in one case, and lost there house. We had a do-it your self garage in my city. customer came in signed a legal wavier if they were hurt, he could not get sued. Well some one did get hurt almost died and sue the pants off the do-it your self shop and he lost everything.

lancar in Surrey, British Columbia said: If you do it at your house, make sure you are a limited corporation and have insurance. Mechanics who have done work and had no insurance, were sued by at least in one case, and lost there house. We had a do-it your self garage in my city. customer came in signed a legal wavier if they were hurt, he could not get sued. Well some one did get hurt almost died and sue the pants off the do-it your self shop and he lost everything.

even if i had the people leave property while i fixed the car?

Being flat rate is tough and anyone that tells u otherwise is a damn lie. When it's busy of course we do well. But since the economy has been in this recession the automotive field has been a tough business. Being present for at least 40 hours a week and only making 20-25 doesn't cut it. Why do the dealerships have issues paying their techs hourly. Seriously ask yourself that question. At least you're done bashing me, and disrespecting me. I don't have to insult you or your character when I know nothing of you to get me point across. I'm just reaching out to those who may be interested in this field and giving them my perspective before some of them fall intoy category. From an adult stand point and disregarding your position and mine, like I said if u consider all the schooling, training and expenses of becoming an automotive dealership tech vs that of a plumber, electrician, mill wright, then you can clearly see that statistically plumbers, electricians, and mill wrights as a whole and on average do better than automotive techs. That's one argument you can't dispute.

I'm not trying to Bash you, but your bitter at your dealer, and tech's that make more than you. That doesn't make you the best person to give advise.
I can answer your question about why dealer's don't pay hourly. It's really rather simple, people are lazy, and only money motivates people. I don't know anyone that would work as hard if they had a guarantee. I'm sure you have hourly guys in your shop, most do. Ours sit around and only do the minimum they have to.

I'm not bitter at my dealership or the techs that make more than me. You're bashing me again and putting words in my mouth. You seem to come off as the guy who likes to think he is the best at everything and has to be in control of everything cause you have insecurities issues. You always want to make my mind up for me. If you've been reading my posts you can clearly see that i said with their experience they deserve what they make but I deserve more too. Let me quote, unquote for you "I believe with their experience they deserve their pay but shouldn't mine be a lil closer to $18-19 not $16 after 8 years". If you go up 9 posts from this one you can clearly see that. so NO I am not bitter at the techs, I am not bitter at the dealership. Its the the flat rate system I'm bitter at and that's the only issue at argument here but you seem to be involving every thing else. If hourly pay makes people lazy then explain to me why 90% of the jobs in the world pay hourly/salary? Why doesn't the whole world go off of flat rate. And there is not 1 single hourly guy in our shop except for the kid in the apprenticeship program. You don't know anyone that would work as hard if they hard a guarantee? That just means you don't know any quality people in your life that have proper morals and ethics. I know people that work for less that bust they're ass every single day. Like I said PUT YOURS AND MY SITUATIONS aside. AND NOW ONLY GO OFF the nationally recognized bureau of labor statistics and tell me that being an automotive tech is better than being a plumber/mill wright/electrician from a income stand point. Mill wrights average $48,360 annually, plumbers average $46,660, electrician average $46,420, automotive tech is $35,790. Whats there to argue about? ESPECIALLY when you consider the schooling costs the similar, but to be a tech you have to invest thousands of dollars in tools (for me $25,000) and you gain no title that earns you more pay such as the 'JOURNEYMAN".

you can earn the title "ase master technician" but I've meet mechanics who couldn't rebuild a transfer case and they only got that patch because they memorize a test they took 10 times already. that title means nothing. as in a journeyman, you have to put in the work under an already established journeyman and get your hand dirty.

It's not bashing you, well maybe if I want to take it that way.
Here is my standpoint on your situation. If after 8 years your only making $16 than your either not as good as you think you are, or you don't have the back bone to get what you want. Plain and simple.
There are so many jobs that pay on a work performance basis ( flatrate) truck drivers get paid per mile. My dad drove for 25 plus years kept 2 or 3 log books so he could cheat a bit to make more $..
Your correct some people will work hard no matter what, but few. My wife works for a huge insuance company. They all get salaries. She gets paid the same as the rest of her team, but does 4x the work in single day, and has numbers to prove it. She would love to get paid for her work like I do.

AGAIN I TOLD YOU TO PUT OUR SITUATIONS ASIDE AND HAVE YOU ARGUE THE AVERAGE, THE MEDIAN, THE STATISTICS, THE FACTS BUT YOU'RE TOO IGNORANT. BUT since you wanna ramble then so be it. i don't have the back bone? That's not bashing and disrespectful? you don't know me at all. I told you i bust my ass for that dealership (key word) WHEN it's busy. it's not busy, economy is in a recession, manufacturers are cutting down on warranty times, (why are there warranty times to begin with, it takes the same amount of time under warranty or not), consumers aren't buying cars, people don't return to the dealerships once their warranties expire. Those are just a few of the reasons why I have no back bone according to you. Then tell your wife to get a flat rate job like you if you think so highly of flat rate. I didn't say there wasn't any performance base pay jobs. EVERY job is a performance pay job you clown. but there are different incentives with each job. I said 90% of the jobs in the world are hourly/salary. I didnt say that a dealership tech is the only flat rate type job in the world. Are you reading what I'm posting or are you just that stubborn? the difference between a flat rate job and a performance based job is most performance based jobs still offer a guarantee vs being a dealership tech if i go to work and stand around for 8 hours and i dont have 1 car come in guess how much i get paid? $0.00. you get a base plus commission. tell your wife that if she went in and didn't sell one policy all day that she wouldn't get paid anything then ask her if she'd still keep her job. Obviously if you're wife and you are such "go getters" and have solid back bones then tell your wife the same thing you told me about getting what she wants. but then again she doesn't have the back bone just like me and that's why i cant get what i want in your words.

It was a either or statement. My guess is your not as valuable as you think you are. Like I said dealers will pay to keep good techs, you just have to make them. I really think you need some anger classes. Your getting all bent out of shape on the internet. I have made no ill comments to you, just stated some opinions. Now your yelling at me. Lol
Let me ask you a question, did you understand what flat rate was when you were hired? Did you agree to taking the good with the bad? I have been doing this almost 16 years. I learned very quickly how to manage flat rate. I do like flat rate, I make good money. Sure there are downfalls with it, but your so worked up over how it sucks, and you deserve more, there is that deserve word again.

You've insulted me or disrespected me on more than one occasion, or made indirect comments on what you think best suits my life, or called me on my character when reading from your comments you sound like a complete egotistic self controlling insecure person who believes that everyone deserves less than you cuz you are the best at whatever you do. You believe that 90% of the people who live in America just wants hand outs and believe we are under paid and don't wanna work and do nothing to earn it but yet you continue to live in such a country. Go to any 3rd world country and then run your mouth. I don't know about you but 99% of the people I know and associate with including the people I currently work with have work ethics unlike you like to believe. That's the very foundation this country was built on. You are a true stubborn idiot. Anyone in any position is replaceable. How do you "make someone pay you"? That doesn't make any sense. I'm just gonna walk up to my boss and demand that I get paid $24 like the other techs who've been here 20+ years or else I'm quitting. Yeah right. That's absurd especially with the unemployment rate at what it is right now. Of course I deserve more. I earned everything I've done. I went to school, bought $25000 worth of tools, got into a dealership, worked here 8 years so how is it I don't deserve my share. I've earned my stripes, I've did my dirt. Only difference is I haven't been in the business 20 years and nobody should have to be in a respectable job that you have to invest so much in and make less than $40000. But yet again I will mention cuz your thick skull can't process information that the average salary for an automotive tech is ONLY $35790. How is that considered "a good living". If u call that living comfortable then you must live a swamp. are you still talking about our situation. just go by the facts, the stats, the average, the median, the truth, and tell me does the average mechanic make more than a plumber? NO.

flatratesucks
Nxcobra is a manager or he is one of those techs that gets feed all the brake jobs, water pumps and intake reseal jobs. He get`s all customer pay jobs and very little warranty work. When he gets a comeback he claim a new problem caused it, not a screw-up or misdiagnosis. The manager will give his comeback to another tech like you and cut your hours, because we can`t charge the customer twice for the same problem. That`s why he loves flat rate pay. The only techs I have met that like flat rate are the ones that get all the gravy work. With those techs It`s not about skill It`s about how many hours you turn, that`s why those cutthroat dealers pay them more and give them 2 or 3 racks to work with. But in the end you and the custom are the ones that gets screwed.

I have had the least amount of comebacks in the shop almost every month. My customer satisfaction numbers, and fix it right the 1st time are in the 92-95% range. I do more mostly drivability/ electrical/ and engine work. Not very often I get maint. Unless its my sat. I'm not sure of warranty to cp ratio. Again I say if you.don't like it, quit.
As far as demanding what you deserve, its not hard if your a valuable part of the dealer. Yea threaten to load your box big.
Oh and j don't hate this country, but I am sick of whiners saying the.gov needs to help me. I deserve better. 49.6% of this country does not even pay income tax. I am all about hard working people. I have.just seen to many people in a shop cry your story. It's not that their treated unfair, its almost always that they think their better than they are.

Btw I'm not a manager, I am a master tech. I wouldn't mind looking at management someday

Flat rate sucks but I`m not going to quit because I work hourly not flat rate, I will not work for flat rate. I am the shop foreman all I do is drivability, electrical and diagnostics, GM will pay for what ever time I spend repairing the vehicle. My CSI report is 100% and I keep it that way. I started working for another dealer with hourly pay and 1 year later they changed my pay to flat rate, I quit and went to another dealer, 6 months later they call me to get me back and I said NO. In the past 15 years the only way I could get a raise way to quit and go to another dealer. GM pays other techs 3 tenths for diagnostics and I know for a fact you can`t make a living on flat rate making 3 tenths per job doing diagnostics and electrical.

You talk like a republican, one of the 49.6% that does not pay taxes is Exon corporation they paid $0 taxes last year, they have had the highest profits in the past ten years of any corporation and broke all profit records. Why do you think Exon should not pay taxes and the working people in this country should pay more. Exon is a global corporation. They have foreign employees and foreign stock holders that don`t pay U.S. taxes but yet they make big profits. U.S. tax payers are not asking for a hand out, they are asking for fair tax laws and fair wages. U.S. working wages have flat line for the past 30 years while inflation continues to go up and the top 1% makes bigger profits. If the rich did not get any more tax cuts sense 1986 they would have paid 1.7 trillion dollars more in taxes.

Did i say i needed government help? I said i need to be paid more fairly for a RESPECTABLE profession that I've invested alot into cuz they're a alot more professions that pay just as much if not more that require less schooling, training, experience, tools, and investment. Thats all I said. I do deserve better. The whole middle class of america deserves better. are you only reading what you wanna read? come back to this in a couple months and under the line that says "was this comment helpful?" see how many yes's and no's you get vs mine. we'll see then how many people think how ignorant and stupid you are. all you do is contradict yourself anyways. oh yeah and by the way i did get a new job. I'm gonna be a service adviser for a independent shop. they are gonna pay me $3 more dollars per hour than I'm making now, I get a commission on top of that after 1 year, I dont have to strain my body anymore, and most importantly i can tell flat rate to suck you know what. you seem to think that you've designated yourself the spokesman for all flat rate techs. you think you are the standard of all auto techs. its a shame that people of you're moral and ethic represent our country and field. you are all about hard working people? you just said that if every one was paid hourly that they'd do the bare minimum, which one is it? all you do is contradict yourself. do u realize how stupid you sound. i laid it down to you, same technically training, same degrees, same dealership, same access to tools and equipment, similar hours produced when there is work but only difference is $8 more dollars per hour. your circumstance you mention doesn't pertain to me. i came on here to voice my concerns and opinions not to argue with no end with you. someday you'll look back and say i was right anyways.

Very good point.I haven't weighed in lately but if anyone wants to go back and read some of my posts I have made this point.I have recently been to my service manager(title)about vehicles having major services several times within ridiculous periods one had three in seven thousand miles plus an oil change at another dealership.He was not terribly concerned.Money in the till you know.That's how bonuses get paid.I have pointed several things out and will once more.Dealerships are getting rich off of our hard work.As a technician(and I know others that feel the same)I would like to earn an honest living for honest work.I have been in the business for twenty three years and have held a leadership role in most jobs that I have held,be it team leader or lead tech in shops without team leaders.I have witnessed many acts of dishonesty by many techs,I have called some out and reported others end result always the same(me in the middle of a sh*t storm).Flat rate promotes dishonest practices,promotes turning hours at all costs.This cheats customers manufacturers(driving up costs which result in car prices going up)also results in cutting of warranty labor times to combat expenses and yes it makes those techs that screw everyone lesser people because that makes them thieves.Like it or not those customers are people just like you and I and struggle to pay their bills too.So the next time you write an estimate think about having to pay the bill yourself.Don't get me wrong I work to make money to take care of my family and have no problem with making money.I am not willing to screw everybody I can to do it.Out of space more to come

I have a suggestion for everyone that posts here to do several things:go check out your MSDS read about the chemicals that only cause problems for people in California,go to the industrial commissions website for your state and review the forms for workers compensation,go to the OSHA website and read what they have there and what the disposition of a repetitive stress
injury statute and then go around the shop and talk to the guys that have over ten years on the line and ask them how their
hands knees elbows and wrists feel oh and don't forget the back.Now you probably wonder where I am going with this.I would
like to see two things,I would like to see you guys think,I would like for you to be aware.I would like for you to consider this.Technicians are tools and as technicians we appreciate the value of our tools,you wouldn't leave one of your best tools out in the rain,why would shop owner's or dealerships leave us out in the rain?We bring profit's day after day after day.
Taking care of us is like feeding the cash cow.However when you factor in flat rate pay the pit us against each other and let us battle it out while they stand by and count the beans

@NXcobra has a point.If you work at a dealer for 8 years and still make 16 per hour flat rate, your not doing it right. Especially with your schooling and years of experience.When you tell the manager you want more money,be prepared to quit!I went from a apprentice postion under the drivabilty tech at a buick gmc dealer for over a year making 12 per hour straight time to flat rate at 15 per hour. Within 4 years of that, I went from gm dealer to dealer, about every year, asking for a dollar raise every year,and not getting it.I found another dealer hiring and got my raise.I went from 15 to 23 per hour in 4 years and talked my way into drivabilty position, SES and no starts/electrical. I have like 7 states(except auto trans)and ase's(cept auto trans and engine rebuild).I almost have a AS degree in automotive technology also.The point is, no dealership is going to just give you more money. You have to demand it, based on your knowledge and experience. Theres no loyalty to emloyees,any workplace comraderie comes second to the DOLLAR.Monitor craigslist,the paper, websites,word of mouth. Side note-try to not to burn the bridge-the managers in your area also move areound or talk. Never tell a service manager your long term plans, unless you say"I want to work at here forever"More ways to increase your production-for non waranty times-use ALL DATA, ther a industry standard,alot of places try to do a % over warranty time,Sometimes not as much.If they wont pay you the industry standards time,there not worth working for.Always charge CP for diagnosis AND installation= No start-dead battery, battery test-charging system test- parasytic draw test=1 hour plus.5 for installation=1.5 hr,and so on whatever it is.Sometimes charge more for hard stuff.Never let a service writer tell you what your getting paid per job if its not enough,and you know what isnt.Granted all this stuff is based on the fact,your not affraid to refuse to do a job and or quit.I found every job in less than 2 wk

when you tell your manager be prepared to quit? and then do what? can't even collect unemployment or keep health benefits for the family. it wouldn't matter if I made $19 per hour I'd still only be flagging 20-25 hours per week. There just isn't enough work for 10 guys in our shop. There's obviously the guys that the service writers favor and they get fed most of the work and gravy work. Tell me how a you make money on a R/R window regulator that pays .9 when including diagnostics when I've spent .1 getting car and pulling into shop, another .3-.4 diagnosing it, then I have to give the repair order to service adviser so he can approve warranty taking another .2 and finally stand in parts line and wait for parts which may take .1 if I'm lucky and finally I get to R/R which will take .4-.5, so where did I make money? We do use alldata but only when GM service information doesn't provide labor times. Also where I live the boss I work for owns 22 dealerships in every brand so there's nowhere for me to go. In the shop there's 10 techs and only 4 of them make $20+ an hour. the rest of us are around $15-$18. I have the 2nd least amount of seniority (8 years) so I'm in no position to walk around like I'm top king. So you can see my situation but I've already solved my problem. I got a new job, so my situation is no longer the topic at hand. It's flat rate that we are discussing. A battery test and R/R battery is basic and falls under the category of a skill level C tech so you can make money on that. but not 1.5 like you speak of, That's what drives up costs and in the long run drives up hourly rates too. Dealerships have the highest hourly rate too and its because of flat rate. when you're doing intermittent electrical problems and driveability issues you can end up spending hours just on the diagnostics alone that you will never get paid for.

it's cool. you don't know my situation but I need an income every week cause I have a family to support ans I need health insurance so I can't just walk out of a job. That's common sense. Secondly where I live the Boss owns 95% of the dealerships around here. 22 to be exact in every brand possible so there's no other dealerships to go to. Thirdly you can't just charge what you want for any job, that's why there is set established GM labor times and you have to use them accordingly otherwise the dealership loses money and they start asking why. Which also drives up customer expenses, and long term it will drive up hourly rates period. Why do almost 70% of customers do not return to the dealers when their warranties expires. dealerships have the highest labor rates ours is $103 per hour than any shops and that's because of flat rate. I'm not discussing my situation no more cause if you've been reading I got a new job. I'm only warning the people that are interested in going into this field about the negatives based on facts. I never said all techs get paid bad cause there are techs who do very well but as an average we don't do well considering ALL the investments.

Yes, your situation is unique.They have the area you live in cornered. They can dictate pretty much what they'l pay you. I feel your pain beieve me, I live in Flint MIchigan. Its like a GM at birth area. Half the vehicles you see driving are GM. Saying that, You being wisconsin is even worse, no offense. But thers is a answer for you my friend. Ever consider heavy diesel? Get into a heavy equipment program.They pay by the hour ,and in your area is mightily in demand. HYdraulic line repair near mines and all. Because lets face it,your not getting a raise any other way. Heavy diesel IMO is the best career choice. NO crazy competition, like in auto repair. NO flat rate (depending) I knew a guy who worked for cat in MI who got flat rate, but still high hours. I wish i had a booming diesel trade like you have, in my area.

Just started my career in the automotive industry, after going to school for a year and a half. Seem like the shops around my area only want to hire experience tech. Went to a shop that told me they are looking for someone with 10 years experience, now I’m in my 30’s and and I looked in the shop most of the techs were in their early 20’s like 19 to 22 so you telling me that they have 10 years of experience? So they came out of their mother womb wrenching? Another tire shop told me you need to have at least 2 year experience to work here. A tire shop? Damn is it really that hard to demount and mount and balance a tire? Learned that in one day. This is crazy specially when I pass these shops everyday for the last six month and they still have the sign up saying they are hiring. I did timing belt replacement, engine swap, transmission swap, electrical diagnostic and repair, heating and air condition repair yea, I may not have a boat load of experience but I’m very humble and willing to learn and very patient. Seems like it don’t matter every shop I walk in I feel this wall in front of me that I need to bash with a slag hammer to get in. I think being homeless is way better than trying to be a mechanic at this point. I rather go and open my own shop than to work for these shops in my area they seems like they only want to hire the young mechanics who don’t know what end of the wrench to use to starch their ass with. I Google all the shops I went to ant they all have a fair amount of complain from previous customer who took their vehicle there, to get basic repairs, and the same shops that told me they are looking for someone with 10 years experience had the most complain on their reviews, I think I will just open my own shop instead of trying to beg these shops for a job. Like I say I rather be homeless to go try to get a job from these places, so how many of their mechanics can do change a evaporator in Mitsubishi eclipse v6 in 3hours when the book calls for 8hours,

shephead,

I know your frustrated. I had the same issues over and over and over.

Do not let the "experience" issue get to you. Want to prove to them you have the experience with time? Film your self doing the repair. Explain in simple details steps and put it on you tube. You may just get a call saying "Hay, saw you on you tube doing a RERE on that clutch. You did a really good job, how would you like to work for me?

BTW, You can try and work on your own but, you have to get the clients and that can be a tough thing. If you do, create insentives for them to come to you like a free oil change with brake change. Do you have any top name scan tools?

Its still better working for some one...especially if they have WIDE variety of skills in most makes and models.

The automotive trades is THE HARDEST of all trades to have a decent ROI! think about it, how many trades where the employee, has to spend 10-50 thousand dollars of his own money on equipment?

Besides the automotive work I do on occasion, I also do outsourcing as a telecom technician. My recent job was updating the electronics that were the brains of all these petroleum service stations. I did not except 25 or 35 dollars a hour for this self contracting work. I was paid 45 dollars a hour..every hour. It was fast paced and I was getting pretty good at it. Made more money with just a bag full of tools and a ladder.

I love this work FAR more then the automotive repair business!

heavy duty requires more training, more knowledge, more experience and working on heavier things. i dont like the working on heavier things. the body can only take so much. like i said i found an hourly service writer job that is taking care of me well now. but as far as sheephead situation, i guess you're just gonna have to be willing to travel a lil further to to other shops. of course they all prefer someone with experience, thats understandable. the community college you graduated from doesnt have any placement programs? or none of your teachers aren't willing to vouch for you to help you get a job? cuz around here the community college has an excellent placement program. good luck job hunting tho. even the firestones, and national tire places like goodyear/ gemini, tires plus, should hire you but most of those places have crappy retail-like hours including saturdays and sundays. opening up a shop isnt a cheap route and will require a HUGE intial investment, including alot of your time and dedication. also earning a reputation is difficult and a customer who walks in will ask you how much experience you have rebuilding a trans and you'll reply minimal while the shop across the street has 2 techs that have been doing it for 23 years combined. opening up a shop is not a cheap solution. keep looking, but good luck and avoid flat rate. it sucks.

I attended a community college and have worked in the field for over a year. From what I see, any average joe smoe can work on cars. Not only this but I also found that it's really a waste of time to go to school. Though you do get lots of knowledge, it's better to just read the books and study on your own. The fact is from going to those schools, unless you work on real live cars, it's no comparison from stepping in a real shop. These schools take your money but don't really prepare you to succeed at a job. They just give you all the fancy certs and paperwork to make it look like you know about cars. Don't get me wrong, knowledge is good. But you can go to a shop and have more knowledge on diagnosing a car, but no idea how to perform the work. Do you think they will pay you or the other guy with no education but the hands on experience?

In reference to the pay, it depends on what shop you're in I suppose. If you get FR, you better be in a busy shop. Base pay plus commission is usually the best. If you find a busy shop where you can get a decent base pay plus commission and can sell and do jobs you'll make a killing. The only problem with base pay is unless you have direct contact with the customer, you're depending on a sales rep to make a sale which sucks. It would be better to control your own destiny.

I've pretty much decided to work on the side. Even doing small brake and tie rod jobs could earn decent money. Even more so I've decided with the knowledge I've attained in the auto repair industry, it would be better to buy and sale cars. I see cars go for cheap at auctions because it has mechanical problems as little as bad brakes or a leaking radiator. Those things can get done by me for next to nothing and the car sold for double the profit. Which one is better? Breaking your back turning wrenches every hour on the hour for 2400 a month, or selling two cars a month for 3000 dollar profit?

Been flat rate 30 years at dealers. I wind up being the "go-to" guy to finally get a problem on a car fixed. I actually like that better than the mundane olf/flush/rotate/ balance /30K service, because you get to use your brain, but thay act like they can't pay you for fixing it.. you get a mere pittance of what the lesser mechanic who did the work to begin with got paid to not do it properly. That doesn't mean he ripped someone off, it means he just lacked the experience to get it right. I have that experience, and I am lucky if I get much at all to fix what he didn't. Mistaks are a part of learning... we've all been there.

I am going to work for an independent next week, I have had it with dealerships.

The one thing I ask all of my fellow techs here on this website to do is, when posting, please, please, SPELL correctly, use CONTRACTIONS correctly, and type as if you are writing a resume. 80% of these posts I've read have GLARING 3rd grade grammer/writing errors. If I was reading your application/resume to hire you, I would think you are an idiot. PLEASE. Make that effort. If you write on the back of your RO's the same way you post here, you WILL NOT be taken seriously.

Think about that a minute.

The first thing my new boss said when he was reading my app, was " Hey, you write nice, I can actually read what you are trying to say".

Other than that pet peeve, I am in complete agreement with just about all of the posts on this site. The more you know, the less you get.. and you younger bucks who can slam through a service faster than the older guys?.. guess what.. don't act like you're all that and then some, because A: we were faster than you a few years ago, and B: you still ask us to save yer ass a little bit once in a while, and C:.. just wait 15 years, you'll be in the same broken down/hurtin' back/bad knees situation we're in now!!.. Stay strong my brothers...

Bob List, Baltimore

@BobList
I agree with you about the spelling, and grammar.
So please spell right yourself. It's hard to make your point with mistakes that I noticed just skimming over what you said.
Thay should be They.
Mistaks should be Mistakes.
That is just two of the Glaring mistakes you made. I could list more, so you may want to check your post again. Your punctuation's are off also.

Yes, " Mistaks"..was intentional.. to see if anyone noticed.. :^)

I missed the "thay"... I'll attribute that to a black laptop keyboard, and 3 Budweisers. Good call!! However, my post was like a Shakespeare manuscript compared to some of the others.. My point was, if you write like a monkey, no one will take you seriously... as technicians, we are very smart people.. let's not give the owners/managers any reason to think otherwise ( even if it's subliminal, like miss-spelled crap on the back of an RO). If you are a technician, you have no doubt seen the managers go crazy over a tech who has the cleanest bay, and the sharpest creased uniforms, and just figure, "HE'S GOOD", when well, he's just mediocre. They are swayed by the most ridiculous stuff.

Bob

"your punctuation's are off?" Your punctuation is off or improper or just plain wrong would be more correct. Also, "punctuation's" with the apostrophe "s" in this case shows possession. Punctuation doesn't own anything. Except maybe you.

Yea, I read a few posts back, I'll bet NxCobra would be a joy to work with, especially on a Team System.
I've been in this biz long enough to honestly say what I've seen over the years, and incomplete descriptions of work performed on ROs, and atrocius spelling/all caps/ no periods or commas make a guy look stupid, ( to managers and customers ) even if he is a great tech.
I am giving good advice to the younger techs, and instead, I get blasted.. but, I've worked with, and seen his type before.. once the manager/writer leaves, he'll be right with him in a matter of weeks. Fact, not opinion.
I've got no problem with Nx, and look forward to his posts, but his attitude is one of the things that are wrong with flat rate. Blowing out another tech's candle does not make yours burn brighter!

Bob

Here is a new one everyone needs to look out for. Friday our dealership employer said they want to try a new program, all diags will be free, that only thing they will have to pay for is the repair/parts. There thinking is that we will be flooded with people coming for repairs. That this manager told us there is a Nissan dealership that is doing this and bussiness has been great. OH LORD WHAT ELSE...

Dr Rik, you've got to tell them NO, screw you.. you do NOT work for free.. I might read a DTC under those conditions, and nothing else. If the cust gets a free reading and bolts for home to have someone else fix it, ask if the dealer will pay you your small diag time for hooking up the scan tool. Try and explain how this is going to just bring in the cheapest, "game the system" type of customer. Keep records of those that come in for the "free", and never return.

Bob

Yes, we should all spell well I guess. English is actually my third language I speak 3 other language and I had to learn how to write and speak English correctly. I lived in United States for 10 years now. When I first move here I dint speak English at all I still can’t speak it or write it that well but I get by pretty good, if that’s the case then you should only hire teachers or people who major in English; good luck with that. Last week my doctor write me a prescription that it was miss spell so bad that the pharmacy had to send me back to the doctor to do the order again. All my life since I lived here I had people telling me that are spell wrong “O” you miss a comma here: well go to another country/another culture and learn another language and then come tell me if you can speak and write that culture language perfectly. If someone can write and speak English perfectly that does not mean they can fix y your car correctly half of the time it be a Asian person that be the best tech and they barely speak or write English, all they do is fix the stuff good speaking English/writers miss up. My teacher who is a master tech and have over 20 years experience used to write really bad, he even asked me once how to spell a word and he spell it wrong after I told him the right way, not only my teacher but, also half of the other students dint know how to spell either or write proper grammar, hell even when I take my car to the mechanic they always miss spell on the work order. To be honest the general public/customer don’t give a damn if we can spell or not half of the time they assume we don’t know how to spell or write anyways; all they care is if you can fix their damn car that’s it. And again half of the customer half of the time doesn’t know how to spell either when they see your miss spell word on their work order they don’t even know it. My point is kudos to you if you can speak and write perfect English on your work orders, as for me I will make my mistakes

Bob, I am glad you intentionally misspelled words. I was not trying to blast you, but if you were complaining about spelling, and misspelled two word while doing it, you kinda deserve it.
Listen I am not trying to "blow out other tech's candles", but it does make me angry to see the level of stupidity of some of these younger guy's. Like you said the their spelling, and no commas, or periods, make guys look stupid. If they spell like this, they more than likely talk that way also. I have watched confused customers trying to follow what their tech is trying to tell them, it's not a pretty site. The truth is they make the perception of all tech's bad. It's not a perfect career, but it can be a damn good one.

Right now my biggest problem isn't the workload we are getting. But the fact that every time we get rid of someone. They hire someone that has half the intellect of the previous employee. One example would be is that we now have two advisors that don't tell the customer there is a diag fee. After we tell them they didn't get that 1hr diag were expected to do it for free. Is it just me or is having to tell someone how to do their job a pain in the ass? I may not have the 20+ years experience some of y'all have. But I pride myself on FRFT and customer satisfaction. With that said. The workload is becoming a problem.

Wow, I am so glad I ran across this. Cannot agree more on the flat rate pay system. At one time, it was OK but not anymore. I worked as a Ford Senior Master Tech for 21 years (dealership closed in '07) and watched the warranty AND customer pay times get cut, cut, cut. At the same time, the vehicles got more and more complicated and harder to work on (meaning takes more time). Since '07 I've been an Audi tech and enjoy working on them, like my dealership, no complaints EXCEPT flat rate. I am grossing less now than I did 10 years ago while working twice as hard. Plus, with all the elctronics on the modern vehicle there's so much more to go wrong, and most of those problems are sporadic. We get paid 1 hr for diag. Really pays when you have to drive the car 20 miles BEFORE it MIGHT act up, so you can then do a proper diagnosis. I've got $50,000 invested in tools over the past 25+years, a back that always hurts, knees that are shot, feet that ache, fingers with almost no feeling left and my mind is about fried. All that for the $20/flat rate hour booked, which is, by the way, exactly the same I was making in 1999. I do not slack, I am not an idiot (I know my product), am ASE MAster Certified + L1 and in a 40+ hour work week, am excited when I get paid for more than 30 of those hours because that's considered a good week... I refuse to be dishonest or compromise my work to make rate but what else can a guy do? I am seriously, at 48 years old, about at the end of my rope. If I'd have known in 1982 what I know now, would have picked a different profession. Seriously, I just don't know if I can do it much longer, both physically AND mentally. I've personally known 2 very good techs over the years that one day just literally lost it. At the time I didn't understand, but years later I can totally understand how it can happen.

Example of flat rate: Replace 2.0 TSI turbo long block in an '09 A3. Pays a whole 6.8hrs, including transfer of all necessary parts. Yeah right!

you guys are all a pack of puffta`s .

take matters into your own hands and krack that paracite boss of yours with a big wrench when no one is around !!

get your money and leave .

if he calls the cops get your friends tatted up , cousine to tune hime up extra good .

them fat posses understand pain compliance !

no threats just instant payback !

let go back to the old ways ,now .