AUTOMOTIVE TECHNICAINS DONT GET PAID WELL !

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steven in Orange, Virginia

58 months ago

You know I feel like a rock in a hard when commenting on this debate. I am a professional technician that considers it my career, on the other hand alot of what the older techs are saying is true. The auto industry today, has taken on more of a retail ideology. Get it in get, get it out, and sell sell sell. Now common sense will tell you that business exists to make money, but are business has a technical side that most other types of retail business does not. In my opinion what is truly killing this industry, or at least the tech side of it is that the people in chrge are business people, not car people or those with technical knowledge.

Now the argument there is that a business needs to be run by business people, the business side of things if you will. However like I stated previously, our business as a technical as well. If you are going to run a business, then In my opinion you need to be knowledgable about all aspects of the business, not just one side of it.

That is where I believe the conflict lies. The techs in essence, play a vital role in dealer operations. The way the economy is at this present time, not to many new cars are selling, but people will and do fix their cars when needed. Its the only option they really have. Service Advisors, Techs, and Parts generate more money for the dealer then car sales do, people do not have to buy a new car, but eventually they will have to service or repair the one they do have.

I myself, just like "Somebody in Beaverton Oregon Stated," you have to stick up for yourself. I was once getting bitched at for taking a little extra time on a job for the simple reason I wanted it right, just did not want to send it out the door. My response to this jackass was "Speed does not fix cars,proper diagnostic and installation procedures do." In essence, "when its right, thats when its done."

In retail ideology, sales and profit are what drives the industry. wether its a fight worth fighting, thats personal choice.

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egr in Richmond, British Columbia

58 months ago

I am just moving from canada ontario to the NY city.. I was hired by the toyota dealership, when I was in canada I am making 25 dollars per hours but can u believe it.. in the states the service advisor only paying 15 dollars per hours is that what the dealership paying now???

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BK in Solon, Ohio

58 months ago

egr in Richmond, British Columbia said: I am just moving from canada ontario to the NY city.. I was hired by the toyota dealership, when I was in canada I am making 25 dollars per hours but can u believe it.. in the states the service advisor only paying 15 dollars per hours is that what the dealership paying now???

If that's what you'll accept then that's what they're paying.Good luck in your choice.

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egr in Richmond, British Columbia

58 months ago

since I am new to the united states... so I guess I don't have a choice but it is way too low... so I have to see if not raise or changing to flat rate then I might cosinder resign

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Tim Hall in Greenbrae, California

58 months ago

I am 53 yeats old have be auto tach all my life. Worked for GM for 22 years, have 69 GM training certificates, Did have master ASE but let expire. I have worked for the past 10 years drivablity and electrical. I was paid 33.00 an hour not flat rate. The dealership screwed everybody. The only way I got straight time was to quite. After 6 months they asked me to come back with more pay. I worked flat rate before, I will not do that again. What makes me mad is the tech schools telling there students that they will make 100k or more. DREAM ON. Years ago a tech student showed me a news paper articale that they would make 60k with 2 years of school. I called the local new paper to talk to the author, they said it was from the Associated Press in Wash DC, I call DC, they said the author was a free lance writer from DETROIT where the BIG 3 are. I call the author in DETROIT, SHE said that was what tech made in DETROIT, I asked her for the dealership names SHE said SHE could not give out that information. But I work with a guy that is from DETROIT he told me they made 20.00 per hour flat rate, that does not add up to 60k a year. My advice think long and hard, ask techs at your local dealerships what they make.

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egr in Richmond, British Columbia

58 months ago

I just think it is way too low and really unacceptable,he told me when I am ready then I can change to the flat rate... yeah right... then they will give me all the garbage job... transmission re+re , engine which only paid 8 hours and takes almost 2 days to finish it... I never working in the dealership but I know how there system work.

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Arlen Reed in Meridian, Mississippi

58 months ago

don fosey in Baton Rouge, Louisiana said: Where do you go after this many years of being a technician, what other jobs are out there without going back to school?

I tend to agree ....been doing this for 25 yrs as a Prof. ASE Master..Ford Master and Certicates on BMW and Range Rover. Its not like we didnt spend money on are own educations...and Tools? Geez! The tools!....In some cases Technicians could have bought there Dream home on what was spent for tools and Tool Boxes. The dealers are almost like slave traders ...they have no problem handing a Technician a ck that doesnt even cover your gas to and from work! Maybe Technicians Need their own Union? (I hate Unions!) But what do the Skilled technicians do that started out with the fuel injection that started in the early 80's and have followed through the years of Technology and understand it! I guess all we can do is ...the best we can.

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steven in Silver Spring, Maryland

58 months ago

believe it or not, we as technicians have transferable skills. I make money as a content writer , are friend of ours left swift and is now a technical education teacher at a local high school. of course there is always office machine repair, appliance service and repair, plumber, hvac, and electrician. Theres also lift equipment installation and repair and fleet and emergency vehicle service and repair.

right now i am still a tech, and write web content on the side. the only way i would ever go back to working in a dealership is if it were a non automotive group, offered a salary, or at least a base salary with a commission. i am working in the aftermarket rite now, kinda like it better.

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Honda tech in Savannah, Georgia

58 months ago

The sad thing is that i will continue.... More kids come out of tech schools thinking that they will make $80k a year and what they really make is 8 or 10 bucks an hour. The good techs that can fix it right ,we get push around just because we want to take the time and make sure is fix right or because we dont belive in the wallet flush ect, ect. I wanted to be the best that I can be ASE ,factory training ,the best tools and all that but for what??? Now that I can fix anything what do I get... The repairs that no other one can do for the same money that my kid makes at the pizza delivery place... I still love it, the challange, the keeping up with technology and all that but if u work in a shop with no flat rate and good customer STAY THERE. Dealerships and flat rate and all the politics can and they will suck the life out of u. I been doin it for 20 years.. Good luck y'all.

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steven in Orange, Virginia

58 months ago

I was a Honda tech in Virginia, now I work independent. If you want to do this, look into fleet maintenance for the state or something like that. If you really want to do this, its ok to go to school and get the education, but stay the hell out of dealerships. I have become a better tech working on everything, then a tech that works on the same damn thing all day. Dealerships are not good, well let me rephrase that, automotive groups are not good. If ya want to specialize in a certain make, find a independent dealer to work for, not some glamourized auto group.

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egr in Bellingham, Washington

58 months ago

I am a general technician which I am facing a different kind of vehicle everyday..and I feel it is very challenge however the people always believe dealership do a better job and better technician with a factory training.I am really disappointed after being training so many years and invest so much tools and end up only get paid 15 dollars per hours at the beginning...well I guess better stay in the small shop at least I am being a chief technician over there get like $25 dollars per hour with no kiss axx stuff.

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steven in Orange, Virginia

58 months ago

Dealership techs are good at what they work on. Its true that dealerships send you to school, but they send you to school to work on their stuff, and more importantly so you can learn all the warranty work, which does not pay what it should. Keep in mind to that a good technician is good technician, no matter who he/she works for. It has been argued many times on the justifibility of flate rate. Some argue that in a retail enviorment, how can you justify paying a tech 30 dollars an hour clock time, when the possibility is there for one to milk an eight hour job for the entire eight hours. My argument is that cars are becoming extremely complex in nature, so the time it takes to diagnose certain drivability concerns have increased. That is when flate rate screws you.

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bill m in North Port, Florida

58 months ago

Flat rate screws everybody, except the dealers. Sure they tell you how the overhead is killin em, but they are the winners on the sweat of your backs. Don't forget how much you work AGAINST your fellow techs getting to that next job. Then there is the all important dispatcher, keep him happy because he will make or break your paycheck. Finally the service manager is the biggest deterrent to your pay because he will cut your pay from underneath you and not even ask, "we needed to cut that time back to ah, you know sell the job. Ill make it up to you next time". Yeah and the tooth fairy is on her way to my house tonight too.
Good luck to all. Merry Christmas...

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mbtech in freehold, New Jersey

58 months ago

T/B in Tucson, Arizona said: I been teching since 1980 gm dealer 6years of it many small independ garages.Even 19years at one.
ASC MASTER 3 TIMES GM CERT 12.000 IN TOOLS Pay ranges from 20k to 40k max,s and 2300 hrs year,s.Had to due all rps diag etc. Well nicks what can ya say.Where some folk,s say i made 50k and up gust blows my mind .Then society look,s at mechanics as the majority are also? SO it,s time to mangage ya
Seen many attempt,s even before i started working when pay was 50/50 of unionising.SO there isnt a cure
May be a reverend or to many. HMMMM

thanks for making us feel stupider by reading your post 20k/ year? what were you working on model a's?

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Honda tech in Savannah, Georgia

58 months ago

S.U.I. Thats awesome!!!!

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steven in Orange, Virginia

58 months ago

I dont meant to be the water that dampens the towel, but based on some of your literary expressions, other issues may exist other then the automotive industry. Just saying.

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Craig in Phoenix, Arizona

57 months ago

I'm not a mechanic, I'm a consumer but I just wanted to say a big THANK YOU to all those honest mechanics and technicians out there. Most people think it's just turning a wrench and don't realize the skill it takes to do the job right. My dad was a mechanic back in the 70's/80's so I understand what the job is like.

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Joe in Sandwich, Illinois

57 months ago

Thank you for saying that. I think we can all agree that when you help someone with a Automotive problem and they are Happy to be back on the Road, it is rewarding. Now if we could just make a living doing that !

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bill m in North Port, Florida

57 months ago

I miss the repair for the sake of doing it, not always for the money grab. There have been times a simple thank was reward enough. What I don't miss is the haggling after the fact...

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bill m in North Port, Florida

57 months ago

BTW thanks Craig.

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Honda tech in Savannah, Georgia

57 months ago

Craig in Phoenix, Arizona said: I'm not a mechanic, I'm a consumer but I just wanted to say a big THANK YOU to all those honest mechanics and technicians out there. Most people think it's just turning a wrench and don't realize the skill it takes to do the job right. My dad was a mechanic back in the 70's/80's so I understand what the job is like.

Thats the power of the THANK YOU. Thanks CRAIG!

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joe in Bucyrus, Ohio

57 months ago

can i trade 25yrs plus 30plusK in tools for a real job? many dealers and independant shops later, the almighty buck is all that matters to the owner. i really feel the quanity over quality just takes the cake. flat rate is too controlled while indepndant just wants more in and out. let the hacks and flushers figure out real problems.

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steven in Orange, Virginia

57 months ago

Sounds like the auto industry needs a voice. I am a writer who writes about the auto industry, politics, and military affairs. I worked in the auto industry for a little over ten years before I got into writing professionally. I still hold a few ASE, and I am also a prior service army veteran. I would like to start a not for profit project, and if what you all are saying is valid, then maybe I could lend a hand. As a former technician, I feel you guys may need a voice, and if its done professionally, maybe able to make an impact. Anyways Just a thought.

Steven R.

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fishonjon in Anchorage, Alaska

57 months ago

Any one considering becoming a flat rate tech in an idiot.26 years ago I was making 13.50 frh 50% of the 27.00 shop rate,some were making 60%.The Dealers were doing well.The flate rate system was designed to minimize dealer liability.Techs agreed with the understanding that they would absorb some of them(such as tools and repeat work).Over the years shop rates have steadily gone up but the techs share has not.The shop rates are so high now that most average people cannot pay for there car repairs and have decreased business,warranty times are no longer achievable and have been extented far past anyones imagination.Unions are impotent.Other skilled trades have vastly outpaced the auto trade.The mind set of management now is to fill every bay with any warm body and pay them 10.00 ph and get maybe a 50% production rather than pay a career tech 30.00 ph and get 200% production with fewer comebacks.They have also started quick service lanes that suck off work that was used to fill in the gaps between major jobs.As far as I am concerned it is over.Quality techs are almost nonexistant and are being replace with imigrants that live in low income housing that guys like me end up paying for in the long run.I am making less now than I was 20 years ago.If you were to apply for a truck driving job would you accept the job if it required you to supply your own truck,the fuel to run it and be paid less than someone that knows how to operate a caulking gun.There are exceptions,some techs are in good setups and can still make a good living,but the truth is that most are getting screwed.The whole industry has become one of the biggest scams in history.The tech schools continue to pump out youngsters promising them bright futures.After 1-2 years in school and then in most case a lengthy appreticeship(5-10yrs) and an investment of atleast 50k in tools and schooling they will maybe end up making 30k a year.After 26 years the only thing the business has left me is broke and brokedown.

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fishonjon in Anchorage, Alaska

57 months ago

Another warning to all techs especially the ones under 40 yrs. old.I am often told that I don't know what I am talking about,but if you do your research as a good professional should,you will understand what is coming in the future.Every auto manufacturer on the planet right now has a fuel cell program in development.Some have the technology ready now(Honda FCX Clarity is already on the market)and just awaiting the demand and refueling infrastructure.This technology is the holy grail of auto engineering and will be great for mankind,but not so good for auto techs.Internal combustion engines,emission systems,transmissions,belts,hoses and most of the moving parts on a car are eliminated.The Dept.of Energy's website has a great deal of information about this and the Hydrogen Posture Plan has a step by step layout of how we are going to convert over to this new tech.My point is that in a few years most likely by 2015 cars as we know them are gone and so are us techs.Alot of this is being down played while the major players are investing billions into it and will be laid upon us all at once.There will still be needs for auto techs,but 90% percent of us are gone and they ones that are left will be even more grossly under paid.Does anyone think that the corps.,government or our communities will retrain any of us once this starts happening?I think not!We will slowly and surely be phased out if not blaintently starved out with most of us in our 40's,50's or 60's.Do yourselves a favor even if you do not believe and study what I am telling you then plan your futures accordingly.I myself will be in my 50's and most likely broke and unable to retrain into anything gainful.

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skip in Bucyrus, Ohio

57 months ago

fishonjon in Anchorage, Alaska said: Another warning to all techs especially the ones under 40 yrs. old.I am often told that I don't know what I am talking about,but if you do your research as a good professional should,you will understand what is coming in the future.Every auto manufacturer on the planet right now has a fuel cell program in development.Some have the technology ready now(Honda FCX Clarity is already on the market)and just awaiting the demand and refueling infrastructure.This technology is the holy grail of auto engineering and will be great for mankind,but not so good for auto techs.Internal combustion engines,emission systems,transmissions,belts,hoses and most of the moving parts on a car are eliminated.The Dept.of Energy's website has a great deal of information about this and the Hydrogen Posture Plan has a step by step layout of how we are going to convert over to this new tech.My point is that in a few years most likely by 2015 cars as we know them are gone and so are us techs.Alot of this is being down played while the major players are investing billions into it and will be laid upon us all at once.There will still be needs for auto techs,but 90% percent of us are gone and they ones that are left will be even more grossly under paid.Does anyone think that the corps.,government or our communities will retrain any of us once this starts happening?I think not!We will slowly and surely be phased out if not blaintently starved out with most of us in our 40's,50's or 60's.Do yourselves a favor even if you do not believe and study what I am telling you then plan your futures accordingly.I myself will be in my 50's and most likely broke and unable to retrain into anything gainful.

have fun with your fuel cell, know it all!

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steven in Orange, Virginia

57 months ago

Good response. I am working on a report that I would eventually like to present to congress. After starting to write full time, I am still in part time as tech. What I see so far, is that dealer techs have it the worst, followed by national chains, and then independents. The complexity of the modern vehicle, requires a high level of training, and years in the field in order to master it well. From what I have been able to find so far through research, is that flate rate was started back in the war factories. It is my educated guess, that because the war factories were automotive manufactuers, that type of pay plan, seemed to stick around far past the war factories existence.

As a writer, sometimes the money in that is not that stable either. However I work for myself, and If money is going to be up down, at least it is on my terms, not someone else's. I started writing automotive columns for local newspapers, which turned into writing web content, which has led me to a cross roads to where I am going to write for a living permanatly. My back ground is being an automotive technician for the past ten years, and I am also a prior service veteran. Most writers write about what they now, so the auto industry, politics, and military affairs was something I found easy to write about.

I am putting alot of work into something that may fail. However the one thing the industry has always been lacking was a voice. Also the challenge Im being faced with is that is anyone even going to care. The reason for this report however, is that the auto industry has alot of passionate people, so to me its worth a shot.

Is the auto industry worth saving, or should we just move on a let it die? My view on that, is that just moving on is not easy for everyone to do. Its those people who take pride in their skill, that are the ones being forced into other fields. Although my presentation may sound like a Union, I am non profit. This is not about greed, its about doing a good.

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Joe in Sandwich, Illinois

57 months ago

So long as Oil is produced, these cars are not a threat. I recently saw a show on the Green channel called Who Killed the Electric Car?

This show talked about Electric Cars made by GM, Ford, Toyota and Honda.

They tested these cars out in California. They had plenty of Tree huggers that were ready to test them out. They drove them for some time, most of them where trouble free and these people loved them.

For no reason at all, all the car makers took their electric cars back. The people that were driving them wanted to buy them. But all the Auto makers said they needed to do further testing on the cars.

The Film makers tracked down what happened to these cars. They were all destroyed! Why? Because all of the Auto Makers have tons of money invested in the Oil companies.

All the Auto makers are out to make themselves look good to the public.
Many people have drank the kool aid and believe in Global Warming.

They also believe there is a Oil shortage. These people need to wake up and realize it is all about Money! These Cars of the Future, Fuel Cell, Electric, whatever are all a big joke.

I really doubt in 5 years that cars will evolve to Fuel Cells and Electric when money is to be made with Oil around.

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Honda tech in Savannah, Georgia

57 months ago

I think a man or a deep speech can change the world. Steven if u need a hand let me know. I also know that money is the one in control all the time, unless something happens that can change the way of how people look at different things or issues. I am a tech and I know that the business is not going to change(hopefully)and I say hopefully because I will like to see in the future every good technician doing something different and see how the hacks and flushers are going to fix this computers on wheels.In 1995 Honda said: Here is the new thing natural gas, learn this, buy some tools and get ready for the future. In 2000 they said: Here is the new thing Hybrids,learn this, buy some tools and get ready for the future. Now they are saying here is the hydrogen,learn this , buy some tools and get ready for the future..BLA,BLA,BLA.... That's what I here. No Oil means, no spark plugs , no filters, no fuel system and many other things that can collapse their system and they are not gonna let that happen. So every 5 years they are coming out with something new so we think they are fixing the problem.The problem is flatrape they make money when they don't pay us right. I don't think it's going to change but I am going to, and hopefully the dealers will have a nightmare with this computers on wheels and the hacks.. Good luck everybody!

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Steven R in Orange, Virginia

57 months ago

I will admit that since leaving the dealerships, I have been happier and more steady with pay. What I am trying to accomplish is a positive impact for the whole industry. I used consider myself an import guy, but since leaving Honda, I have had the opportunity to work on trucks, and fleet maintenance seems to provide more stability as a tech. Trucks are bigger, some things are heavier, but with my expirence they seem more easy to get to the components, unlike a freakin Civic with a water pump pulley recall or some bs thing like that.

I do feel that the report I am working on can make an impact, but it has to be presented with educated answers, facts not assumptions, and I will need to have people on myside. If I try and do this alone, I may not get anywhere. I love being tech, I like figuring out why an engine light may be on, or what is causing a slight miss in the engine, and so on and so forth. It is the politics of corporations that make the rules, I know of Chevy dealership in my town, that is family owned, and none of there people are on flate rate.

Its the automotive groups and national chains that are causing turn over and forcing techs to take short cuts. As long as their is Executives making decisions who know nothing about cars, then I feel the problem will always exist. Hopefully what I am working on can change some of that without it costing me career. Happy Holidays.

Steven R

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fishonjon in Anchorage, Alaska

57 months ago

I am not a know it all,I have been in this business along time though and have seen it go straight to hell.Right now the dealer that I work at has an help wanted ad out for an A.S.E. Master transmission specialist for 10.00 per hour to undercut me.I say good luck to them.I make an average of 40.00 and am having a hard time making ends meet living in a 1 bedroom apartment in Anchorage and pay 6.00 for a gallon of milk and 3.50 a gallon for gas.As for fuel cells read about it dumba** before you think that you know it all.Alaska petroleum supplies have been have been diminishing between 3-6% a year as of late.Go to Chevron,B.P.,Shell or any oil company website and read idiot.They are investing billions into alternatives namely hydrogen.What will you do when gas is 8.00 per gallon and hydrogen is 3.00.Do understand that the"Cash for Clunkers"was designed for this future conversion.It is all laid out in the Hydrogen Posture Plan with even geographic regions and the resources within them to produce the Hydrogen.And furthermore embicile moron did you know what fuel was used in the very first internal combustion engine?It really isn't a matter of if anymore but when.It is definently a huge undertaking(the technology and the infrastructure)and may be delayed because of the economy or whatever but it will come.They predicting that by 2020 that 25% of cars on the road will be of fuel cell tech.That is 25% of all cars on the road not cars being produced at that time.Hopefully battery tech will develop more but it isn't looking promising.I can't explain it all,but I do know that the more you know the more you find out that you don't know.The U.N.scienist are arguing right now about the amount of petroleum reserves left.The difference of opinion between them is a matter of 20yrs.If supplies are dropping and demand is going up the price goes thru the roof.All our fertilizers and pesticides are derived from petrol.What happens to the food supply if we burn it all in cars?

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Joe in Sandwich, Illinois

57 months ago

You think that Cash for Clunkers was to help us convert to Fuel Cell Cars?

Where are these Fuel Cell Cars? Where are the Electric Cars?

They will not be ready in 5 years just because someone writes an article saying they will. If that where the case, we should all be driving flying cars like they said we would be back in the 50's !

As far as production of Oil being down in Alaska, you have to thank the Goverment for that. They are holding the Oil Companies back, but not for long, they will get some money under the desk to allow it to continue.

It is all about Money! Not Technology or clean air!

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Honda tech in Savannah, Georgia

57 months ago

Hi Joe in Sandwich, U said something about that show Who Killed The Electric Car. The #1 reason why those electric cars were destroyed (at least the Honda ones) was this.. NO PROFITS!. These vehicles were going to the shop just for a tire rotation and wiper fluid. And for that simple reason they are not in the market. I never work on this kind of vehicles but i know a guy that did.

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Honda tech in Savannah, Georgia

57 months ago

Hi Fishonjon, Don't hate me man but here in the US the factories like Honda shot down production for 2 days out of every working week due to the slow economy. Dealers were not selling new cars and that's why the put that "cash for clunkers" the people took advantage of that deal and they all got new cars and all that. That cash for clunkers was not for Hydrogen vehicles or any other vehicle, it was just to sell those new cars stuck at the dealers and the factories.

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fishonjon in Anchorage, Alaska

57 months ago

I didn't say that this last summer's cash for clunkers was for fuel cell cars,but the same program is outlined in the Hydrogen posture plan.A government rebate program designed to eliminate less efficient cars for more efficient ones.We will hopefully never run out of petroleum but we have used up all the easy inexpensive to drill for oil already all that is left is really hard to get to and we are producing at max capacity barely able to keep up with demand which is increasing steadily as production is dropping which is making it difficult to keep prices down low enough to as to not destroy the worlds economies.Not to mention that our lives are being held in the palms of the Arabs.Our future energy supplies are going to come from a variety of different resources anything that can be converted to electricity.Fuel cells cannot only power cars but residential and industrial power generation also.They are already in use such as remote cell tower power,hospital,hotels and some manufacturing.Like I have been saying it is already here all you have to do is read about it.Cummins has a fuel cell program,Transit buses are in use,forklifts are lifting,even f.c.cell phones.If you can't read then watch some youtube videos.There is alot of crackpot stuff but if you learn then you can know the difference.I just want to help man!

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fishonjon in Anchorage, Alaska

57 months ago

Last July the D.O.E. had a technical advisory meeting projecting manufacturing cost of the auto fuel cells and the storage units.The cost are calculated using todays technology,2012 tech and 2015 tech and amount of units being produced out to 100,000,which should give someone a good idea of what they have in mind.The tech is expensive so they are developing manufacturing process's and uses of different less expensive materials to make them more viable and affordable to the average consumer.Hydrogen safety and handling procedures are being developed.All this stuff is being tested and developed and then will be dropped on our heads overnight when it is ready.Iceland claims to be the world's first hydrogen economy they have the infrastructure they are just waiting for the cars.Technolgy is funny.Someone could find a better way tomorrow and everything that I have said could be a bunch of B.S..Has anyone seen the new Toyota commercial?

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Joe in Sandwich, Illinois

57 months ago

As I have said before and I will say again. It is all about the Money!

Toyota and other Car Makers and Oil Companies can air all the commercials they want to.

Honda Tech has another valid point that there is no profit to be had with a Vehicle that needs no Oil Changes, no fluids flushed, etc...

Oil companies say that they are behind Alternative fuels, they say they spend billions on them. I doubt that they are when Car Makers are pulling the plug on all of these future cars.

Not to mention that with the economy the way it is, Car Makers do not have the Budgets they once had. It would be hard for them to re-tool and come up with all the resources to do all of this.

All this talk of Fuel Cell and Electric Cars is a bunch of Propaganda to make them all look good. With Global warming being exposed for what a sham it is and everyone freezing their butts off this winter. All of this stuff is a hard pill to swallow.

Loads of Oil is here in the United States. It is being protected by Tree Huggers right now. There are several more reasons why it hasn't been touched. Most of them are Money Related.

It is hard to believe any of this stuff that has been written about these future cars and their future fuels, when you see what Auto Makers and Oil Companies are doing right now.

Don't drink the Kool-aid my friends, think for yourselves!

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fishonjon in Anchorage, Alaska

57 months ago

The Kool-aid you've been drinking is spiked with something.You're right about the enviromentalist preventing drilling and exploration,but these court battles are adding to the cost of fuel.The areas that they believe have deposits are remote and hard to get to anyway when all combined makes the oil very pricy.They are still finding new oil and new ways of getting it,but they are having trouble keeping up.It is hilarious to argue with some that has read one article or watched one T.V. show that can possibly understand.When all of the worlds governments,every oil company,all auto manufactures, countless other huge corporations and every university are working as hard as they can to solve our energy problems.80% of our oil is imported.What happened in the 70's when our own oil supply could not keep up?You are welcome to think for yourselves and advise you to do so.I my self am not cable of grasping the whole picture.I would like to think that it really is all one big huge conspriracy,but if it is not then we all have a tough reality to face.Like I keep saying the cars are here now not the future and they will not sell until there is infrastructure.There will not be infrastructure until we buy the cars.We will buy the cars when the price of oil exceeds the cost of hydrogen.Chevron is the largest producer of hydrogen now what would it matter to them if we buy gas or hydrogen?They are going to make money no matter what.The money arguement does make sense we all need it.I don't feel comfortable knowing that an Arab has the ability to starve my family to death or that the solutions will put me out of work.I am done.

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fishonjon in Anchorage, Alaska

57 months ago

I guess I am not done yet,don't want to leave on a bad note.There is a light at the end of the tunnel.Imagine what we will do with all the money being sent out of country on the oil itself and the need to defend it.The defense budget hasn't even been figured into the equation yet.Auto workers may all but disappear but the new jobs that come from the new products of this technology will boom.Imagine a residential Fuel cell unit that is supplied strictly by natural gas,creates electricty,pure clean water,hot water,heat for the home,oxygen and will fill your tank or a car that you can plug into your house and supply energy not only for your home but 4 of your neighbors.Sounds pretty futuristic.It's already here and being done.It can only be held back for so long.

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hangarrat in Kansas City, Missouri

57 months ago

Hey guys i graduated from tad technical institute in 1996 was told i could get a job at a local dealership went and applied was told i needed 5 years experience in that particular type of vehicle ask how the f$@K i was supposed to get the experience without knowing the vehicles straight out of tech school i didn't specialize in anything and now i work at a salvage yard diagnosing and dismantling cars, and trucks for $8.00 an hour it really sucks i can dismantle a wrecked car in about 12hrs. The company i work for expects me to dismantle the vehicles like i were going to put it back together. My ASE in steering and suspension doesn't mean squat and neither do any of my other certificates such as my hunter alignment training certificate or my doctor of motors engine overhaul and theory certicate, my ASE certification for refrigerant recovery and recycling. I work from 8:00am-5:30pm m-f have been doing this for about 5 and a half years now i reccommend getting out of the bussines and i am going to move out of kcmo to work for the airlines as an A&p on airplanes after graduating from aviation maintenace school.

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fishonjon in Anchorage, Alaska

57 months ago

Might I suggest electrical engineering or pipe fitting.I have a buddy that just got hired on in the pipe fitters union starting out at 21.75 an hour while he trains for six weeks then is dispatched out ready to work with .50 increase for every 1000 hrs(about a buck a year)all the killer benies and will reach journey wages in 5 years which is in the high 30's.He went to the north slope and will be working 12hr shifts 7 days a week for 6 weeks on and then 2 off.He will start out making over 2k a week.I told him that he may not make it to journey he could probably retire by then.He just finished paying off his tools and school loans to become a wrench after 4 yrs at a dealer making 12.00 an hour.He can finally move out of his parents house now I am happy for him.Also you could move to Oregon and wash dishes for 8.40 an hour

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fishonjon in Anchorage, Alaska

57 months ago

Gosh I just keep going on and on but has anyone heard of Cali's Z.E.V.mandate and the ten other states signing on.All good techs would have read about this already it's only been out there for ten years.Read about their deadlines.Why haven't I met tech school grad that had any knowledge of it?

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Joe in Sandwich, Illinois

57 months ago

The reason I believe that this is all about money, is the fact that we do have the Technology to Build an Electric car that will go longer than 100 miles on a single charge.

We do have the Technology to build Fuel cell cars that would run cleaner and be cheaper to run.

We have had Diesel Locomotives for years that haul Tons of Cargo, 400 miles to the gallon. Why isn't there a Diesel Hybrid?

But it doesn't get done. Not when the powers that be have a profit to make.

At the end of the day it will always be about Money, that is a Fact.

Even the Democrats that are in power and promise clean air, are being paid Millions of Dollars to leave things the way they are. They are also costing us millions of dollars while they do this.

Emission test centers in my area are closing down. Most of the Smog belching, gas guzzling cars are gone.

I would not say that Fuel Cell or Electric cars will never be Mass produced. But they will not be here in 5 or 10 years. All of the Laws and mandates really do not matter. Business will go on in Washington as it has for Hundreds of years. Behind closed doors with big pay offs.

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fishonjon in Anchorage, Alaska

57 months ago

Dude this is getting pathetic.If you open you eyes and look you will see that they are already here.I am trying to prevent any more lambs being led to slaughter.These so called tech schools are cranking out upstarts at an extreme pace.Exploiting the ignorant and driving down the wages of an already under valued craft.That's where the money is at selling little kids big snap on tool boxes,stealing their lunch money and the dealers get to boss around 10.00 an hour punks instead of 30.00 an hour jerk know it alls.Watch when it smacks you in the head you will all of a sudden become the fuel cell guru that has been all over this stuff for years.You will be the one passing out the"I told you so's".The snowball is rolling buddy and we are going to be flattened by it.It will probably get delayed as usual that's our government,but it is going to happen.Big mouth blowhard conspiracy theory know it all's are going to make it worse.What if by 2030 there are only 25% f.c.'s on the road how many techs will be out of work in the prime of their careers and undercutting their buddy to try to feed their kids.IF YOU ARE SMART GET OUT OF THE AUTO REPAIR BUSINESS NOW BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE.

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Joe in Sandwich, Illinois

57 months ago

Being a Mechanic / Technician is no way to make a living.

That is the whole point of this forum.

These Future Cars that we have been talking about, will not be maintained by Tech's that work on our present day cars.

It will be a specialist only trade. The Auto Makers will have to train people that specialize in these cars and no others. Asking the present day techs to learn a Totally New Technology on top off dealing with present day stuff. Will be too much. Everyone here has stated how badly they are treated. Why would they want to stick their necks out to learn more?

Once these Cars are out of Warranty, the people that own them will be crying the Blues. The cost of Labor and parts will make them wish they had their old cars back.

You will need a College Degree in Electrical Engineering and Computer Science.
All so you can make $40,000 to $50,000 a year.

No independent shops will be qualified to repair them and the only place to go will be the Stealership. These New Techs will deal with Flat Rate too as well as all the crap that goes with it.

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fishonjon in Anchorage, Alaska

57 months ago

If I were young again I would definetly get atleast an A.A. in electrical engineering.2 years in school and the whole world ahead of you.It would have been far easier than becoming an auto tech and cheaper also.I actually might have became a respectable human being instead of being ripped off,lied to,exploited and paid whatever they felt like paying me.I might have been able to give my kids a better life rather than telling them every year at Christmas that work has been slow so I can't buy them anything or that I can't take them to the doctor because the rats took my health insurance away.I am going to be blackballed out of the industry completely for speaking the truth.Oh yeah they have tried that before too.

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fishonjon in Anchorage, Alaska

57 months ago

I used to date a service manager.She attended a dealer association meeting and said that my name was mentioned specifically.I asked why and she said that they thought that I was causing all the techs in the area to want more money.I am a westcoaster and realestate went thru the roof and shop rates were climbing but the techs weren't being raised up accordingly.S.M.'s would not give you a raise but every shop needed me.I put my self out to highest bidder.It was easy because they were calling me.If I needed a raise I had to get another job,if the new place was busy and treated me right I brought my buddies.They conspired that night at the meeting to put an end to it.They were told not to recruit out of other dealers and to never offer more than you were already making.They got their own little union.When 2 or more people conspire to oppress another class of people it is a major violation of ones civil rights.It is no longer a free market society

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fishonjon in Anchorage, Alaska

57 months ago

Others ways they hold us down is our training certs..Requiring new hires to have so many credentials that you can only get thru them.If you change lines and get behind it is really hard to get back in.If you don't have the certs.you don't get paid.How many times have you seen the dork with every certificate hanging on the wall that couldn't twist a wrench if it were hanging out his a**.Background checks.The eqal opportunity commission has specific guidelines on the use of background check usage.One is that they are not necessary unless in a security position.Two is that if a third party(internet)is used that the potential employee must be aware and it be mailed to them 2 weeks prior to allow for correction of errors in reporting and if not hired because of check that they must give you a letter of adverse effect.14 states have very specific laws about the use and some require an offer of pay be made prior to check.I have never heard of any of this being done and most of the time they will do it without even telling you.They will use anything to not pay.It is the H.R.'s that do the hiring not the S.M.'s anymore.

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fishonjon in Anchorage, Alaska

57 months ago

Greg in Columbia, Missouri said: You are all a bunch of whiners. Anyone with decent skills and a desire to learn can and will make a very good living as a flat rate tech. The biggest problem I see is just what I have seen here. A bunch of hens standing around crying about what they cant do. I think you should all quit and go sell hamburgers at mickey d's so that you can find something else to gripe about.

Well the dealer I'm at has guys in front sucking all c/p gravy,they guys in back do all the fricken warranty.Out of 12 guys in back only 1 is above 100% and he could run the Boston marathon everyday the rest hover around 40-50%.Most of the guys in front are around 200% and 1 at 400%.

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fishonjon in Anchorage, Alaska

57 months ago

Back in the day a tech could work up to foreman then manager.They don't want former tech managers anymore because they are sympathetic towards the techs.When was the last time anyone has filed a time dispute?I haven't seen one in 20yrs.Times have been cut in half and are much more technical today.Managers don't even know what they are anymore.Managers don't want to create any waves either bacause they have corprate aspirations or they fear being audited.

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