The best part is...

Get new comments by email
You can cancel email alerts at anytime.
Comments (43)

Host

What do you enjoy most about cnc machinist work? What do you dislike the most? Is it challenging? Are there many opportunities to learn and advance?

What keeps you at your job?

Reply - Report abuse

Bruce Goodban in Ashtabula, OH

97 months ago

very little Iwould rather operate the conventional manual machine it takes more hands on skill

- Was this comment helpful? Yes (14) / No (10) Reply - Report abuse

Frank Barrickman in San Diego, California

93 months ago

I would have to agree Bruce, but do you think that a Conventional Machinist would have a better grasp of the operations/setup/procedures, and would ultimately make a better CNC machinist? Or at least have a much easier time learning the CNC side. I think it would be harder to go strait to CNC without having experienced or had the opportunity to appreciate the machines, before using the CNC machines.

- Was this comment helpful? Yes (15) / No (7) Reply - Report abuse

Brandon Waynick, Jr. in Columbia, Tennessee

93 months ago

Host said: What do you enjoy most about cnc machinist work? What do you dislike the most? Is it challenging? Are there many opportunities to learn and advance?
What keeps you at your job?

To challenge my mind and skills.The CNC trade brings more of a challenge for quick turn arounds then long production runs for me. I've been in machining for 30+ yrs and appox 35 companies to learn all that I can.

Small to large machine tools - VMC,HMC,HBM,VTL, 3-4-5-6 axis. 8 axis mill and drill multitask - 5 sided bridge VMC at x 324.25" travel.

Like any skilled person we want to get the best pay and benefits. We have to use alot of skills to get it out the door with quality and precision on time.

- Was this comment helpful? Yes (9) / No (3) Reply - Report abuse

protozee in New Haven, Michigan

92 months ago

Host said: What do you enjoy most about cnc machinist work? What do you dislike the most? Is it challenging? Are there many opportunities to learn and advance?
What keeps you at your job?

I've been in machining for 30+ yrs also and mostly run DeVlieg jig mills. There are no jobs right now in the detroit area for this type of work. But there are maney jobs for the CNC set and program type. learn CNC programing and you will have a very good job future.

- Was this comment helpful? Yes (5) / No (3) Reply - Report abuse

Curtis Gress in Sarasota, Florida

92 months ago

I started out running manual machines right out of Highschool. I actually was training to be a welder, but when I got a taste of this trade it made me change career paths. I enjoyed running the manual machines, but as soon as I got a taste of the CNC end of things, I ran with it. I think having a background in the manual side really helped in the CNC side. I love the technology end of things, I have gotten into CAD/CAM Programming to further my knowledge base. I have been doing this now for 28 years, and I really enjoy my trade and make desent money at it. I have noticed over the years that if the person I am trying to train isn't very PC literate, they seem to struggle with the CNC side of the trade. I think the diffrence alot of people dislike about CNC is the production side. But if you get into a tooling shop, you never make the same part twice it seems. I enjoyed working in a tooling shop better than I do the production shops.

- Was this comment helpful? Yes (9) / No (3) Reply - Report abuse

mjohnson0001@hotmail.com in Mulga, Alabama

88 months ago

Brandon Waynick, Jr. in Columbia, Tennessee said: To challenge my mind and skills.The CNC trade brings more of a challenge for quick turn arounds then long production runs for me. I've been in machining for 30+ yrs and appox 35 companies to learn all that I can.

Small to large machine tools - VMC,HMC,HBM,VTL, 3-4-5-6 axis. 8 axis mill and drill multitask - 5 sided bridge VMC at x 324.25" travel.

Like any skilled person we want to get the best pay and benefits. We have to use alot of skills to get it out the door with quality and precision on time.

So P in Jenison, does this shoping around make you more money? Sense we are on the dislikes I have been in the field for 34 years and no money just gray hair and a lot of hard knocks. Machinist are a lot like T V repairmen better to buy another one from China than to pay for one repaired here at home.

- Was this comment helpful? Yes / No (1) Reply - Report abuse

krs in Endicott, New York

80 months ago

im thinking about going to school to learn the cnc trade is it a difficult to learn. i had a friend who worked for universal and they just so happened to train him on cnc and he got certified a month later. he said if you can read a blue print you can run cnc is that true

- Was this comment helpful? Yes (6) / No (1) Reply - Report abuse

Curtis Gress in Sarasota, Florida

80 months ago

krs in Endicott, New York said: im thinking about going to school to learn the cnc trade is it a difficult to learn. i had a friend who worked for universal and they just so happened to train him on cnc and he got certified a month later. he said if you can read a blue print you can run cnc is that true

Well, in my opinion, going to school to be a CNC Machinist is good. But having a solid background in using manual machines is going to help you become a serious machinist. When you run a manual machine you learn more than just cut here, or cut there. You will learn how "feel" and "hear" your machine. You can feel the load on the cutter, and the vibration of the machine. learning the sounds of the cutters as you feel the load will help you big time. Most of the time on a CNC all you have is your hearing. Getting certified in one month with no experiance? Most journyman courses are 4 years, I am sure he just got a certificate for completing that course. You will end up being an CNC operator, or a real machinist that runs a CNC.

Not trying to quench your fire, just the hard facts as i feel they are.

- Was this comment helpful? Yes (3) / No (4) Reply - Report abuse

machinst in Birmingham, Alabama

79 months ago

krs in Endicott, New York said: im thinking about going to school to learn the cnc trade is it a difficult to learn. i had a friend who worked for universal and they just so happened to train him on cnc and he got certified a month later. he said if you can read a blue print you can run cnc is that true

Yep it is true just like you can drive a car just by looking at the roadmap!

- Was this comment helpful? Yes (1) / No (3) Reply - Report abuse

jeremy in New Kensington, Pennsylvania

79 months ago

i have been in the trade for almost 10 years. when i was in a cnc production shop i wanted to hang myself everyday after work. i love running manual machines in a job shop but they are few and far between up here. i will never accept another production job no matter how much they pay. i believe its not machining when you are a glorified button pusher. its a wasted unfulfilling life in my opinion.

- Was this comment helpful? Yes (3) / No (2) Reply - Report abuse

Paul Ludwig in Montreal, Quebec

78 months ago

I'm a recent graduate of a machining and cnc machining program and have decided to start off as an apprentice at a small shop that specializes in moulds, they have both cnc and conventional machines.....some people tell me I'm nuts for working in a small shop with not so great start off pay...they say I should head on out to one of the larger aerospace companies and work as a
cnc operator for better pay and benefits, and believe me, I've gotten offers, they seem almost desperate...anyhow, I'm starting to second guess myself (doubting my decision) and would appreciate some feedback from you guys with some experience under your belts, thanks in advance

- Was this comment helpful? Yes (6) / No (5) Reply - Report abuse

ProtoZee in Harrison Township, Michigan

78 months ago

Paul Ludwig in Montreal, Quebec said: I'm a recent graduate of a machining and cnc machining program and have decided to start off as an apprentice at a small shop that specializes in moulds, they have both cnc and conventional machines.....some people tell me I'm nuts for working in a small shop with not so great start off pay...they say I should head on out to one of the larger aerospace companies and work as a
cnc operator for better pay and benefits, and believe me, I've gotten offers, they seem almost desperate...anyhow, I'm starting to second guess myself (doubting my decision) and would appreciate some feedback from you guys with some experience under your belts, thanks in advance

Start at the smaller shop and learn all you can and meney times its like a small family where they will teach you things that you will not learn in a large corp. You can all ways go to the bigger shops latter on where you might be just another number. Mould making is very good to learn also

- Was this comment helpful? Yes (2) / No Reply - Report abuse

krs in Endicott, New York

78 months ago

thanks i start school in september

- Was this comment helpful? Yes (2) / No Reply - Report abuse

kayedoe in Cleveland, Ohio

78 months ago

I really enjoyed all the input in this forum.

I just began a precision machining / CNC program in Feb. 08, currently a full time student, working towards an assoc. degree in mfg.

So far I prefer the engine lathe over the bridgeport but that may change who knows.

I spent 17 yrs in a job shop environment < 150 employees. I can appreciate from that experience the advantages of a smaller company has to offer. I'm not one to be just a number. I am more of a hands on person.

I am really facinated by tool dynamics. That may lead me into tool and die trades, who knows. It was incredible to me; gringing my own tool and see all that it could do. I was really left with a sense of accomplishment and TRUE PRIDE in my work.

Although it is part of my course of study, I really don't want to go into CNC right off the bat, once I get back into the workforce. I want to have a firm foundation in manual machines. IMO, It just seems to me that it would allow you to be a skilled craftman (which is what I'd prefer) vs an operator.

- Was this comment helpful? Yes / No (1) Reply - Report abuse

Ken Cassidy from technicalinventions in Seminole, Florida

76 months ago

We all know that you first have to know manual machines to get the idea of machining principles.I hold two certificates from PTEC (an acredited ansi technical Institute)one cnc machining.second mastercam.I had 5 prior years on manual machines.went from stockroom to lathe to mills to grinding.My Advice to everyone.is work for the small companies and if you can take a cnc course.do it!! I worked for the best companies in 12 years of machining(Lockheed and contractors for Honeywell,Raytheon,and major medical manufacturers.I did get a great satisfaction doing tool and die than I do cnc operating but I program set-up and prove out and get that same satisfaction again but after 5 years of cnc production and schooling.PS dont work in Florida you get 1/2 pay per hr

- Was this comment helpful? Yes (3) / No Reply - Report abuse

Ken Cassidy in Seminole, Florida

76 months ago

A true class A machinist needs manual experience no matter what type of shop becouse with a small lot like 1 piece to 10 pieces.its faster than to program setup,make a fixture,and run.But a good cnc machinist that programs or masters their machine can be just as quick.Also you cant beat the precision aspect.Yes multi tool and work offsets can make parts in seconds but the future is cnc.Plus as an ex tool maker the machine does unique toolpathes if you cam program.so for job security learn cnc and cam programming and if you have to operate after years of manual.do it . you need to know the machines.The economy is bad so stay ahead of it.I now have my own company that designs and programs prototypes for patents
So hang in there We all respect our trade and I hate to see the real tool makers and manual masters fade away but importing is killing the trade.With that.I wish everyone good luck and support apprenticeships

- Was this comment helpful? Yes (1) / No (1) Reply - Report abuse

BigWill in Akron, Ohio

75 months ago

AMI[AKron Machine Institute] closed right b4 I was to get my Journeyman's Card. I got laid off right b4 that. Now, I can't seem to find a job cause all want more exp [I have 3+ yrs], and most in my area are using outsource companies that can't seem to get beyond a felony[stupid] I had in my younger days. Anyway, my parents helped me out to get on the right path [school, housing, etc] I'm feeling like I've failed them and myself even more because I can't get a job. I'm willing to relocate, but the internet is so full of promising type jobs, I just need a break. I want to be responsible for my son,etc and stay positive[mom talk]. if you know where i can get work - I got really good grades, and was on the cover of the school's brochure. Thanks

- Was this comment helpful? Yes / No (1) Reply - Report abuse

jeremy in New Kensington, Pennsylvania

75 months ago

hey bigwill. listen i work at a good place called fasteners unlimited/bolt works, north of pittsburgh pa. they are desperate for people and your story sounds like my back story. but its a good job. your record wont matter cause they look for the future not the past. if u go on workpittsburgh.com they are advertising there if u r interested. i know its far away but its the best i can do. hope this is helpful!

- Was this comment helpful? Yes (2) / No Reply - Report abuse

Curtis in Birmingham, United Kingdom

74 months ago

I want to be a cnc setter operator where do i start???

- Was this comment helpful? Yes (3) / No (1) Reply - Report abuse

ZipZap in Wallingford, Connecticut

74 months ago

I am about to start my adventure into this CNC program as well at community college. Will be getting my certificate and will continue while working to reach for associates.

- Was this comment helpful? Yes / No Reply - Report abuse

jon borchers in Independence, Oregon

70 months ago

Curtis Gress in Sarasota, Florida said: I agree also that a manual background is a must for any good CNC machinist. But to say a CNC man is no machinist I don't agree with. It depends on the mans background, and training. Now a person that just changes parts and hits the ole green button and makes 500 of these and 200 of those, is no machinist. We had a guy that had just got laid off in one of Boeings big layoffs. The first day we asked him to setup a vise and get ready to run a job. He got a vise, got it ready to put on the table, set it on the table, then he just stared at it for a bit. I watched him turn around, lock his box, and walk out the door. The next day he called in and said he couldn't work there, he had never dialed in a vise before, HELLLLOOOOOO!!!!! I am very glad I had a start in the manual side of things, it helps me be able to do anything on a CNC.

I've been in the trade 13 years, 75% manual 25% CNC. Anyone who can't dial in a vise (or wish to learn) is not really trying to be a machinist. Push yourself to aquire more skills, hone the ones you have, and try to learn every day.

- Was this comment helpful? Yes / No Reply - Report abuse

Dead end in Phoenix, Arizona

70 months ago

My advise to all of you is, dont be a cnc machinist.
Poeple are less and less respectfull of people that work with their hands now days ,not to mention our country doesnt want to be part of industrial markets,it wants to buy from overseas,I.E cars and airplain parts not to mention 90%of electrical assembly fittings etc.
I was working in the CNC aerospace feild off and on for the last 20 years,I am a programmer and tool maker, and it has been nothing but a rollercoaster marketplace.
Employers are offering a machinist less and less money every day.
Employers know nothing about how special and intense the trade is with all the mathmatics,programming,and years of general knoledge and common scence you need to do this kind of work.
I can take a piece of titanium that costs a hundred grand,cut it ,send it to stress relieve 4 times and get it back again and now it is worth another 30 grand in operations,one tiny slip up..just one,and you have sh canned a massive chunk of money because you were not paying attention for a breif moment.
Oh yea and Engineering loves to blame you for their desighns and programmong mistakes as well,and they always try to f the machinist.
Management is becomeing increasingly hard to deal with as well!
They think that production and perfection belong in the same scentance
and if you can meet an already skinny time line that they keep pushing for ...your fired.
If you can meet that time line but your part isnt up to par because you rushed it...then your fired.
Management is its own worst enemy and the enemy of the work force.
Lets face it we all want to do a good job and make some money ,however with all the mainstreaming and bull, these self prooclaimed managerial idiots impose on such a delicate thing as machinning...well...sh I guess its time to do something else for a living because they care not about the reasons why things are the way they are.They simply are the punishers for the reasons why things are the way they are.

- Was this comment helpful? Yes (11) / No (6) Reply - Report abuse

old timer in Birmingham, Alabama

70 months ago

You got it dead end . I have been trying to get into something else for sometime! one thing that you did not mention is if you do a really good job you become too valuable to get promoted.

- Was this comment helpful? Yes (4) / No Reply - Report abuse

Dead end in Phoenix, Arizona

70 months ago

Thanks O. T.
I love machinning soooo much its just so unfortunate
That(like always corporate america)has turned my
love for something into toiletpaper.
There will come a time when ,we,the toolmakers
the mathmaticians the creaters are going to turn our backs
on society as a whole and say stuff it.
The corporate greed and ignorance is unacceptable but it will
continue now that the immigrants are being tought by the unsuspecting
and helpfull machinist or typicall employee.
This is the beginning of the best days in corporate America, because they dont have to pay an old guy that knows things.And their
corporate paychecks keep getting better.
I produce things that are solid and tangible and at the end of the day I made this for this amount of money.
MR.pencil pusher has done nothing at all and makes double what I make lieing and flapping his or her gums at the water cooler.
I worked for the FAA ,and the guy that owned the repair station was an Indian from India and there were nothing but women running the company.
We dont even own our own defense companies anymore?
When I have a problem on the shop floor I cant talk to the engineer cuz they have all been layed off,or the ones left will blame you for the problem.
I cant talk to H.R. about a raise because they dont know anything about my job to even communicate with them as to why I should get a raise.

I was once a proud machinist in America.
Now I`m looking for a country that will respect what I can do
and not beat me up for the things that I agree with them on and try to desperately escape in this day and age.

- Was this comment helpful? Yes (9) / No (2) Reply - Report abuse

romcad in Montreal, Quebec

70 months ago

Being relatively new to the profession I am now worried about the direction it's headed in....from what I've read online and in metal publications I get the feeling that it may become a sweatshop job.
I really enjoy most aspects of the trade and am lucky enough to live in Quebec where the aerospace industry is huge. Too bad Bombardier is building a plant in mexico, it will employ 3 to 4 thousand people soon.....
Basically I'm on the fence at this point, I know that the industry will bounce back, it's part of a cycle and I'm pretty sure I'd make an awful accountant, so what now?................

- Was this comment helpful? Yes (3) / No Reply - Report abuse

Old Timer in Birmingham, Alabama

70 months ago

BEELEEEIVVEE me.
DO accounting instead.

- Was this comment helpful? Yes (2) / No (1) Reply - Report abuse

Robert_mcneal in Weirton, West Virginia

68 months ago

dragon in Kingston, Tennessee said: A CNC Man is no machinst, and never will be, I've done both. The cnc is new/old technology, and is great if you have a bunch of new parts to make, but if you work in a shop like I do for a steel mill where they can sometimes bring in a rusty piece of crap, and ask you to chase pipe threads on it with a taper attachment at 3/4 taper per foot, with no real good way to chuck on it, and no real good way to indicate it, And you can do it, and make it work, then you have a small piece of what it takes to be a real machininst. don't forget where the real trade came from. If you don't have roots you are blind. I apologize in advance for my opinion, and to all the people I offend

I have done the same kind of work for many years and both machines have thier place. I have also done alot of onsey twosy work with cnc and you still have to know how to rig a setup (properly) on each one. The rusty piece of crap analogy is kind of poor because if you know how to program you don't need a taper attachment. My advice to anyone starting or having less than twenty years in the trade is GET OUT!!!!! GET OUT NOW!!!!!!! the occupational outlook for machinist is declining up until 2016 and beyond. No one wants to pay you.

- Was this comment helpful? Yes (1) / No Reply - Report abuse

romcad in Montreal, Quebec

68 months ago

When you say that the occupational outlook for machinist is declining, do you mean the conventional machinist or cnc machinist?
Thanks for the input......

- Was this comment helpful? Yes / No Reply - Report abuse

Robert_mcneal in Weirton, West Virginia

68 months ago

according to the current occupational outlook handbook, both types of machinists are on the decline however there remains quite a few of them because of the shrinking manufacturing industry ie there are quite a few getting laid off to keep up with demand. But according to the government one thing that is hurting the cnc part is that cad cam is getting more automated allowing higher productivity.

- Was this comment helpful? Yes / No Reply - Report abuse

ole timer in Birmingham, Alabama

68 months ago

I have been in machine work as a machinist and now an estimator sense 1973 and the industry as a whole has been declining until now . Due in part to imports of foreign made goods.
So it is true that we should support our own companies and buy American.
If I had it to do all over again I would surely choose a different field.

- Was this comment helpful? Yes (1) / No Reply - Report abuse

Martin in Saint Clair Shores, Michigan

43 months ago

dragon in Kingston, Tennessee said: A CNC Man is no machinst, and never will be, I've done both. The cnc is new/old technology, and is great if you have a bunch of new parts to make, but if you work in a shop like I do for a steel mill where they can sometimes bring in a rusty piece of crap, and ask you to chase pipe threads on it with a taper attachment at 3/4 taper per foot, with no real good way to chuck on it, and no real good way to indicate it, And you can do it, and make it work, then you have a small piece of what it takes to be a real machininst. don't forget where the real trade came from. If you don't have roots you are blind. I apologize in advance for my opinion, and to all the people I offend

I am curious about not being able to hold something or indicate something on centerline to do machining.
You had to comeup with some kind of setup to hold the part and and chase the thread.

- Was this comment helpful? Yes (1) / No Reply - Report abuse

Ole Timer in Birmingham, Alabama

43 months ago

romcad in Montreal, Quebec said: When you say that the occupational outlook for machinist is declining, do you mean the conventional machinist or cnc machinist?
Thanks for the input......

All machinist occupations.

- Was this comment helpful? Yes (2) / No Reply - Report abuse

jay in Van Nuys, California

37 months ago

I starting school at NTMA on the 29th. I have a felony on my record. How hard will it be for me to find a job? Please help. I need some answers.

- Was this comment helpful? Yes / No Reply - Report abuse

deadnd in Norwalk, Connecticut

37 months ago

lie to them about your record!
most companies dont go into your background they just want a drug test.

If your looking into aerospace you may have a problem though depending on your felony.

The good companies want a clean record if ya wanna make bank

If your talking about finding work in general and you have a felony
it may be hard,I left California because there was no work ,good luck man!

- Was this comment helpful? Yes (1) / No Reply - Report abuse

deadnd in Norwalk, Connecticut

37 months ago

Oh yea on the upside of things.
I just left Arizona and I`m glad I did too.
What a waste of life if your a machinist.

The semiconductor and aerospace contracts are good in NY and CT
all starting pay for a resonably good machinist is 20/hr.

I`m doing excellent and I have great benefits too!
SUre beats running CNC`s in Arizona for 13 bucks an hour w/ no benefits and no future.

- Was this comment helpful? Yes / No Reply - Report abuse

bigm1710 in Wichita, Kansas

31 months ago

jusst seeing if anyone has commented back.

- Was this comment helpful? Yes / No Reply - Report abuse

cncgirl in Central Point, Oregon

30 months ago

Just about to start school , first for CNC cert, then finish up the manu/eng AAS. My job in the Air Force was in NDI (Non-destructive inspections) and I know that some cnc jobs want that kind of knowledge. I have already taken welding, electrical, PLC and machine shop. I love it! How cool would it be to be able to design anything for somebody. My other interests in the field is a design/drafting tech, technical illustrator, and help companies switch back and forth from Autocad to Solidworks. (Saw several jobs like that)

- Was this comment helpful? Yes (4) / No Reply - Report abuse

Eddie in Wolverhampton, United Kingdom

29 months ago

I`ve got 20yrs experience CNC.
Made redundant when BAE SYSTEMS closed factory after 10yrs. Out of work 6 wks now.
Money employers want to pay in my area is insulting.
I could get more money being a bus driver.
Biggest mistake going into CNC.

- Was this comment helpful? Yes (3) / No Reply - Report abuse

Tom Joad in Seattle, Washington

26 months ago

Every week there's another story in the Seattle papers about Boeing and companies like them having a hard time finding machinists. Local colleges with CNC training programs advertise a high demand for that skillset. Is this all bullsh-t? Seems like these companies could easily find experienced and desperate-for-work people to fill those positions. Before they outsource them all, I mean. I'm thinking of going into one of these training programs, but I'm discouraged by what I've read here.

- Was this comment helpful? Yes / No (1) Reply - Report abuse

cncgirl in Medford, Oregon

26 months ago

Tom Joad in Seattle, Washington said: Every week there's another story in the Seattle papers about Boeing and companies like them having a hard time finding machinists. Local colleges with CNC training programs advertise a high demand for that skillset. Is this all bullsh-t? Seems like these companies could easily find experienced and desperate-for-work people to fill those positions. Before they outsource them all, I mean. I'm thinking of going into one of these training programs, but I'm discouraged by what I've read here.

I was only in CNC for one semester before we had recruiters come up from California, trying to persuade us to apply and that they would pay for our continuing education. Problem is, the pay was not going to cover commute costs, even though they were willing to hire after only one semester.

- Was this comment helpful? Yes (7) / No (3) Reply - Report abuse

owatcgrad in Honolulu, Hawaii

2 months ago

Tom Joad in Seattle, Washington said: Every week there's another story in the Seattle papers about Boeing and companies like them having a hard time finding machinists. Local colleges with CNC training programs advertise a high demand for that skillset. Is this all bullsh-t? Seems like these companies could easily find experienced and desperate-for-work people to fill those positions. Before they outsource them all, I mean. I'm thinking of going into one of these training programs, but I'm discouraged by what I've read here.

yes, I think its a little bit deceptive when employers cry about a "skills gap".
I think what they really want is people they don't have to invest any training in at all, and who will work for low pay.

and with todays job market, they are often able to get what they want. Employers help set up the tech colleges that crank out young, cheap machinists.

- Was this comment helpful? Yes / No Reply - Report abuse

Devon White in Bolivar, Tennessee

2 months ago

Host said: What do you enjoy most about cnc machinist work? What do you dislike the most? Is it challenging? Are there many opportunities to learn and advance?

What keeps you at your job?

I love the work because it's so challenging, I've been a CNC machinist for over 10 years and there is always a better way to program, setup, and or machine parts, and I learn something new every time I step in the shop, what I hate the most is that it's so racist here in Tennessee, there are still shops here that think black people could only mop floors in there shops, and not just small shops some are large medical shops, I am the very best at what I do and that is hands down and some places I've worked at would treat me like a greenhorn just because I am black by reading prints to me before every job, lower pay than the white employees with less experience, vandalize my personal property, and would harass me daily, and I tell anybody trying to start out in this field, "Why?", why would anybody want to be in such a childish field?

- Was this comment helpful? Yes / No Reply - Report abuse

» Sign in or create an account to comment on this topic.