Male Hygienists?

I'm considering a career in DH but I'm a bit hesitant about it being such female dominated field. Is there a stigma against male hygienists? Are the prospects for hiring them any different than for females? I'd appreciate any feedback on this.

Hi John,
I am a male hygienist in northern NJ. I have been discriminated in jobs as a male RDH.
I have also had opportunities as a male RDH.Expect that Dentist's may prefer a female because that what patients may be accustomed to as a hygienist.
Good Luck!
Tom

Exactly the opposite for me. Every Dentist i meet whants another male in the office to off set the catty behaviour in all female offices. I have been offered so many positions including Head hygienist in a large practice. I had only been out of school 2 months at the time.

However, i should mention that there are many other reasons i regret becoming a hygienist.

I finish school and had many interviews for the position of dental hygentist and I'm a male.They wanted to hire me but I was looking for a more potential salary and know I'm worth more.I was hired starting at $31.00.The other clinic was offering upper $20"S, so I think being a male hleps since Doctors seems to work will with them.

I recently graduated from a school in Connecticut with 4 males in my class and 5 males in first year. My personal experiance was that patients and instructors seem to prefer males. At school anyway patients would think another male student was a dentist or top in the class...but at times they were single out to do manual labor for instuctors such as carrying heavy boxes, fix this and that. I would say that the comment of things getting catty would be agreed with by most of the males I went to school with.

Iam a male and I was thinking about becoming a dental hygienist. but Iam a bit hesitant about because usually females are in that field. and finding a job might be a little hard. maybe doctors preffer females over males. so can somebody give me some advise please. thank you.

I do believe it is a worthwhile profession. I do have you tell you that there are alot of Dentists that won't hire you because you are a male. I have always experienced discrimination and I worked a a dental hygienist in the army. It isn't impossible to find a Dentist to hire you it's the patients perceptions of a dental hygienist will be working against you. The reason you gave were some of those perceptions and that also you may be Gay. Good luck in your endevours!
Tom

Wow I am so glad that you RDH's are doing great !
i'm glad you are being judged by your profession and not your gender.
Tom

Ben RDH, in Baltimore, Maryland said:
However, i should mention that there are many other reasons i regret becoming a hygienist.

Hey Ben!
What other reasons?

Read the comments about the male RDH's and I'd like to see more of them. Even in "today's" world; men are still considered the household breadwinners. Meaning, the more men in a profession the more that profession's salaries are raised. Just look at all the male reg. nurses. They're everywhere and the nursing salaries are great and the need for nurses continue to rise.

The salary wont rise just because male presence. The huge increase in the nurse salary in the last years is due the high demand of nurses. In the Dental field, assistant will learn soon to do same duties as hygienist and that will stop the salaries to go up. In adition to that, Dentistry has become in just a busines without caring for thebest interest of the people anymore.
There is not evidence or research that shows the effectiveness of regular prophy in the treatment of periodisease. Only in healthy patients is were you can perform regular 45 min. SRP per quad is effective in people with perio disease (most of the population. But once again dentist just let you clcean above the line gum ( regular adult prophy).. what a waste of time!!!even if you remove the supregingival calculus and plaque if you didnt remove the subgingival deposits and treat the disease, it will spread even more.....Is like go to the Doctor with Neumonia and they gave you just a cought supressand!!!!

Steve,

I am not sure where you were trained as a RDH or where you work but much of what you have stated is absolutely untrue. Fist of all, assistants can NEVER replace Dental Hygienists. They may be able to perform some of the tasks but never all of them. I also disagree that our professions has become a business that does not care. I cannot speak about your particular office but my office and coworkers care deeply about our patients. Also, you stated that there is no evidence that prophys treat perio disease. Yes and No. In a routine prophy, perio disease is screened for with complete mouth probings. If disease is detected, then treatment is scheduled. It may beging with SRP including Arestin or Periostat. If this is a regular recall patient, then the disease should be in it's early stages if they have been screened every six months. If it is a new patient and the disease is more advanced (6mm pocket depths or greater), then they should be referred to a Periodontist. As for the part about not scaling below the gumline---that is the most important part of our job and I HAVE NEVER heard of a dentist who would not allow it. That is the craziest thing I have ever heard. I have, however, experienced hygienist who did not do it. Why? I don't know--maybe laziness--maybe they just don't care--or maybe they are not given enough time. It sounds like you are in a poor environment and have gotten into the cycle of the "propy mill". This environment can cause even the most enthusiastic hygienist to loose heart and become discouraged. Just know that there are good dentists and fellow hygienist out there who truly love and care for the well being of their patients. We full mouth probe every adult every 6 months,treat perio and refer when necessary and spend at least 1 hour of each patient.

Sincerely,
Tracy Jacobs RDH

Tracy,
I am not just a Hygienist I am also a Dentist, with fair amount of experience in the field. I should say that I am not fan of Perio ( number one in cases of lawsuit) I well know what is the respetable position of the hygienist and the role in the "prevention". To treat a moderate to severe perio patients SPR with antibiotic therapy is recomended, I think both can be certainly agree in that point? but How come you treat a patient doing prophy of 45 minutes? Here in the Boston area and CT the average appt tiem is 45 min. maybe hour for new patients ( so try to take FMX prevetion talk, OHI,SRP per quadrant in that appt lenght?
So you will maybe say " we will reschedule the appointment for another 2 estra visits..." but is the patient willing to pay for those extra appt? .. if the insurance doesn't cover them... of course NOT !!!
I dont believe will charge the 140 or so for 3 appt.!!!!! not around here or NYC..not at all...
The regular prophy dear Tracy is one thing and SRP per quad is something completely different.. Insurance chaarge pero PROHPY ADULT or CHILD is another 300 per deep Scaling ( that means under the gum!!!) so unless the productivity of your office is very low ( yeah I know alot of markteting as well) or your prophy are extremly expesives (in that case maybe are SRP not prophys) your office is loosing money!
Also I want to mention that if you live in wodnerland were every patient has 3 to 4 mm poketing and are extreamly healthy to develop the incurable Perio Disease .. you will need to refer to Perio eveluation...
Hygienist make the production in the office that is not a secret ( you can read Dental Town magazzine Journal of Perio or any other dentist magazzine not the Hygienist Magazzines, those are a nice ladies "soap opera like")
Dentist like make more Hygiene appoint. more income get the money here a Hygienist make 40 per hour!!! a regular prophy 150 to 260 depending of the X rays...so in 12 patients per day!

Steve,
I think if I had spent all those years in dental school, I'd identify myself as a DDS not an RDH. I never said that I did SRP in 45 minutes. We have one hour for regular prophys. We have 1 1/2 hours for new patients. If a patient needs 4 quads of SRP, we refer them immediately. If it only one quad, I will do a prophy on the other quads and get them back for the SRP. Most patients had rather have proper treatment if it is explained correctly. Our office is like a marathon not a sprint. We are not concerned about making the most amount of money we can each day. We do the "right" thing even if that means have "unproductive" time because we had an 1 1/2 set aside and only did an exam and x-rays. In the end, we will make more money. How? Because people are not stupid. Patients value honesty. They recognize that we "lost" money so that they could have what they needed. We make more money in the end because they are patients for LIFE. They are loyal and refer friends and family. We do not advertise at all. Our only sign is a tiny wooden sign that you'd miss if you blinked. We have a wonderful reputation in our area and get referals from the local orthodontist, endodontist, etc. Everyone knows that if my doctor says you need a crown, it is because you do, not because his car payment is due. I hope all the potential hygienist reading this know that the office setting that you describe is EVERYTHING THAT IS WRONG WITH DENTISTRY!! There are offices out there like mine who value patients rather than production. I make $35 per hour and see 7 to 8 patients per day. Propy, exam, and bwx are $129. We are not on any insurance plans so if usually produce about $768 to $1032 per day. That is more than enough daily production. We are not greedy. Every patient that sits in my chair gets one hour of devoted time including complete probing and scaling below the gumline. If you call that "wonderland" then I live in it because I created it!!!

I would identify myself as a Dentist in a Dental forum, I am also a RDH and very proud of it. If you would spent time in any dental school, you can get 2 degrees DDS or DMD , I have a DMD not liscensed.
I your office have a Perio program, if non of your patients bleeds at probing the program is working.
If the RSP is follow with Antibiotic therapy would be best paleative for Perio Dis. but unless your Office has LAser Theraphy you would never achieve Long Juntional Ep. regrowth and that means that your patients will come to your office forever.
I assuming that your patients ar e informed of that condition.. the infection has no cure (PD). If there a re some kind of loyality for the patient that assure you a flow of income, but cero productiviy. Maybe your Dentist need to Hire a consulting firm to increase production, sell, more or maybe is too rich to make money. In that case I recomend him to spend some time in Publc help, with undeserved population, Atlanta Georgia is one of the lees caring towns in East coast.
I am not only working in private practice. I work in Public health as well, several research work done.
Maybe is wonderland for you with the hour and a half for patient..you get enought time to do a Hygienist job, BU REAL WORLD IS NOT LIKE THAT!! so for thos who live outside the bubble, have to work hard for the profit of the Dentist who care more of their pocketts than the educate the population..in the middle of this is the Hygienist..who many times ( you are not the only RDH in a perfect setting) have the right amount of time and work ina non productiviy bonus - slae as much as you can office...other hygienis t have to work like a sweatshop for the Dentist that holds the whip demandind productiviy in the office!!!

Thanks for the back up Tina. This will be my last response so, Steve, no need to reply.

Get your Dental degree if that is you want.You know is hard and almost impossible for some people. Is easy to say "I will go to Dental School if I want". You will need more than that to achieve that goal.
..
and for the other "Female" in Florida.. "YOU GO GIRL!"....Where are you?... in High school?
I am just being realistic. Read more Perio books and get inform in what you actaully are produccion in a Dental office instead worship your Boss.
That would be the only way to step ahead in your career and stop being just the cleaning lady!
There is no need to be agressive and offensive agaisnt me.
In an Dental office with female dental personal is very hard to work.. for several reasons, among those, the way who the females react to any discussion (As you can see in this forum). No one of them will tell you anything in your face, just true emails, or gossips.

I am tying to opening eyes with the true, for those who are thinking in become a Hygienist. anf for those who already Hygienist, learn from this. Learn what you do in the Dental Office, ho much your work worth it, and specially if you are a woman be aware of some unhappy individuals who can only discuss trough insults and cheers such as GO GIRL!! we are winning!!! ..please..
Good luck!

Coming from a male hygienist who has worked in public health offices and private offices, theres always pros and cons to every job. It wasn't that hard to find work cause no matter if you're male, female, black, white, or purple...hygenist are in demand. Alot of offices are now looking for guys because alot of female hygienist have to get time off if they are having a baby and that costs them time, money, and trouble to replace them for that time. I like my job because I am not only a professional but it also makes me feel good that I am helping people better themselves. Then, there is the down side. Some offices, they expect you to do so much in 45 minutes, mostly private offices- where you have to do a prophy (if its SRP then pray that your next patient cancels, because you have to give them local sometimes), BWX or FMX (including processing and mounting), OHI, and have the dentist come in for an exam (when they're free to have time). Thats crazy!!! I felt like a slave after work and you feel like you didn't do a good job in some cases. Now, I work in a public clinic and I like my office that I'm working in now because I can control my own schedule. I work by myself but if I'm running behind everyone trys to help me out. The pay isn't too bad and I know, I can make more somewhere else, but I like where I work. So look for what you like and don't settle for just whatever.

That is absolutely true. There is a new proposal for Dental Hyiene Assistant.
You can read that in Dental Town Magazzine.

Steve, the RDH and Dentist, I'm amazed that I actually found someone like you. See, I want to be a hygienist and like you said, being a male hygienist has its down side(people like females more) and so after a while in practice I will decide to go into dental school for DMD. But few people do that, in fact i've never seen anyone with something like "John Doe, DMD, RDH"

what are my chances of getting into dental school? thanks for your advice

I currently work with a male hygienist and he is respected by patients and staff alike. I'm glad to have him as a co-worker.

I know several former RDH's that have gone on to dental school. One was a friend from my hygiene class. Currently I have another friend considering that option. Although I don't know if being a hygienist increases your chances of being accepted into dental school I certainly am aware that it is a fairly common occurence.

As to salary and working conditions...the variance from state-to-state and even different regions within the same state is amazing. Take a look at the salary pages at amyrdh.com for starters. I believe you have to find the right combination of salary and working conditions to match your personal philosophy in order to be happy as a dental hygienist. I also believe we have a responsibility to support our profession in legislation initiatives because what we have worked hard to gain can be taken away.

Jason,
In fact Dental hygienist is a very interesting profession, basically is the periodontal and physiopathology part of dentistry. I still having problemas understanding the Perio programs in some offices. If your patient has the same reading for more than 2 years, clearly, something is wrong.
As a Dental Hygienist you can grow in the profession and get extra degrees (MPH, MEd, and several others) but I will strong you recomend you, depening your motivation, to pursue your Dental degree.
As I see Dental Hygiene is being tie with "golden chains". You can actually you can change lives, but always you will have someone over your shoulder.
As a Dentist you will have more flexibility and explore other areas of Dentistry.
To get into any Dental Program you must obtain at least 20 in the DAT, very important letters of recomendation and some other requeriments. The EXPERIENCE as a Dental Hygienist will definetey put the eyes of the admission officers onto your application.
Check in the web sites of different schools and see what is the critetia for admisson, sometimes experience and motivation is more important that several other credentials. The interview or initail presentation essay is the key to be considered.
I hope that imformation will help you.
Feel free to contact me for more information. and Good luck.

John in Egg Harbor City, New Jersey said: I'm considering a career in DH but I'm a bit hesitant about it being such female dominated field. Is there a stigma against male hygienists? Are the prospects for hiring them any different than for females? I'd appreciate any feedback on this.

I don't know about your region. But, here in southern California it is totally acceptable. In fact I had 6 guys in my class of 15. It was a blast.

thanks for the input, actually that is what i plan to do, first i'm going to get the dh diploma and then get the bachelor of dental science which i will use to apply for dentistry because i see many schools that prefer applicants with a degree,

but honestly, another burning question is the fact that the only difference i see between dental hygienists and dentists is that dentists can do root canals, implants, extractions which is another 4 years!!! if a hygienist gets into dentistry shouldn't they only have to do 2 years instead of 4? its likely that the first 2 years are simply repeats

Jason in New Westminster, British Columbia said: thanks for the input, actually that is what i plan to do, first i'm going to get the dh diploma and then get the bachelor of dental science which i will use to apply for dentistry because i see many schools that prefer applicants with a degree,

but honestly, another burning question is the fact that the only difference i see between dental hygienists and dentists is that dentists can do root canals, implants, extractions which is another 4 years!!! if a hygienist gets into dentistry shouldn't they only have to do 2 years instead of 4? its likely that the first 2 years are simply repeats

The education in DH is just an overview of perio (depending the school ) but not Dental Medicine. I dont know the particular curricula of the totallity of DH schools over the country but the education that you will recieve is completely different.
You can click in the wbesites of Diferent Dental schools and take a look.

Steve, are you active with DT in addition to reading the magazine? If so, what's your username? I work for DT and HT.

nicole in Covina, California said: I don't know about your region. But, here in southern California it is totally acceptable. In fact I had 6 guys in my class of 15. It was a blast.

How mechanical or manually dexterous do you have to be for dental hygiene? Just curious.

Michael in Santa Fe, New Mexico said: How mechanical or manually dexterous do you have to be for dental hygiene? Just curious.

Dental Hygienist is a profession where your wrist and back are constantly overstressed. Be finger skilled will help you to improve the basic techniques learned at school. After years in the practice the Hygienists tend to modified most of those basic techniques.
With the new advances in periodontal probing and scaling such as Florida probe and Ultrasound based scalers, the amount of stress has been reduced. The used of loupes and microscopes enhanced the back posture.
Ergonomics habits are fundamental to achieved a better performance at work and have a long career life.

Let me know if you are interesting in pursue career in Dental Hygiene. I will be more than happy to help you.
Steve

Kimberly in Tampa, Florida said: Steve, are you active with DT in addition to reading the magazine? If so, what's your username? I work for DT and HT.

Kimberly can you email me at:
steverdh@gmail.com
I have several questions to ask you.
Thanks.
Steve

I have just started my pre reqs. I am 37 years old, and wanted to do this a long time ago. I am curious what every thinks about a male in the DH profession?

I am great with people, being a womans advice columnist and all.

www.ask-ryan.com

Thanks!

As a ten year veteran of this damned profession I just wish someone would get Oprah to do a story on us so that we can get out from under Dentists and open our own practices.

I can do the same job with twice the time to do it and half the charges to the patient. My dream is to open a two chair clinic in the back of a high end hair salon so I can polish teeth and bleach all day for the women going to weddings and prom. I want the ridiculous fees the hairdressers get.

I'm be honest, you have a good point, i was thinking about that, like combining dental and aesthetics into one business
believe it or not, in ontario canada, recent legislation has been passed to for hygienist to work by themselves, but it will be some time b4 people are willing to let hygienists to do the job when dentists seem to be the more trustworthy ones, at least in the eyes of the public

To make the public respect us, just print or curriculum in each operatory and waiting room and how much time we spent treating people for free in clinic at school.

When they see that A in pharmacology and pathophysiology, they might wonder why they put some much merit in a dentist over a hygienist.

The richest dentist I ever worked for did not even know what a class II division II bite was. He was an orthodontist. It seems as long as your parents pay the tuition, anyone can graduate as a dentist as opposed to a hygienist.

Mike,

You seem to think it is easier to get your DMD than it is to be a DH. You are nuts, absolutely nuts.

Maybe you worked for a bad DMD. There are also bad DH's. Don't make yourself look like an idiot.

To Dental Student Next Year,

Who are you to talk me or any of us?

I'm 6'3" 220 and work out every day. If you ever see a muscle bound Keanu Reeves look a like coming your way, it is the RDH that is going to show you how much of an idiot he is. Please give me a way to contact you so we can discuss this in person.

Dentist and Hygienist are ussually compare as Doctors and Nurses. Hygienist can't have more knowledge or skills because the education of a Dentist is more especifi and wide. As a Dentist and a Hyginenist I can clearly explain anyone the differences b/t them. There are several dentist get in to Dental School because parents recomendations or some other connections but even thought the selection porcess is competitve and fair. In another hand I know several Hygienist whom can perform a prophy but they don't know or wouldn't define the origins of the biofilm.
The education you will get in 4 years is completely different than a 2 maybe 3 years in a Hygiene school.The teachers are also another important factor to mark this diference.
In another hand I know several Hygienist whom can perform a prophy but they don't know or wouldn't define the origins of the biofilm.
You will find that problem in anysingle profession, people who care for they careers and who doesn't. The motivation and education in specific profession is really up to every individual person. I have to recognize that Dental Hygiene has lot of limitations clearly mark in the Dental Hygiene Scoope of practice. Some Hygienit just get in to the field after 2 years ( A.S in a C.C) even the best Dental Hygiene Schools in the country dont have the Teachers that you'll find in the worst Dental School.
Just think straight. Dental School is more selctive, more expensive than Hygiene school for that reason the education is more complete (You perform surgery not just a deep scaling) the liability of a Dentist is bigger so is the responsabilities.
In anycase, Hygienist can grow in their career really fast. Masters Degrees are offered for B.S. Hygienist in different areas such as Public Helath, Marketing (most of Hygnienist ending their carrer as Dental office managers or sales representative) or even Education.
There is a new Master in Dental Hygiene wich I believe is absurd.

Dental Student Next Year in Grove City, Pennsylvania said: Mike,

You seem to think it is easier to get your DMD than it is to be a DH. You are nuts, absolutely nuts.

Maybe you worked for a bad DMD. There are also bad DH's. Don't make yourself look like an idiot.

Agree with you. Where you will go?

Steve,
It's an interesting conversation going on here. I'm probably the oldest graduating DH anywhere. I'll be 56 in April of '08 when I recieve my BS degree from Weber State University and RDH licensing in Utah. Like all businesses (and yes, dentistry is a business) you can have a stinker for boss as well as a boss who respects you for what you know and for how you take his business to heart and make it yours. I believe that I can make a contribution to the profession on an equal footing with whomever I work with. I have proven that with my past business career, going head to head with the rich and persumptuously famous. I don't have to be a Dentist to know more about periodontal disease than the person I work for. I need only keep up with the latest developments and learn from people with greater experience than my own. To assume that DH instructors are no better than the worst dental school instructors is unbelievable at best. My instructors include Professors with Masters of Science degrees in DH, and education, as well as one Dentist (also was and RDH) who can no longer practice due to an incapacitating auto accident. I have just passed my first "mockboard exam" with an 82%. Not bad the first time out of the paddock. We have two more to go and on the real WREB board day, I expect to have the hoops lined up and ready for me to make my entrance into my new profession. My instructors ARE the most knowledgeable persons to teach the skills I need to succeed. They are the tops in their profession and highly respected practitioners by dentists I have spoken with and by their peers. Perhaps you have attended the wrong school.

Russ,
I am agree with you, not all the DH schools are the same. I understand your enthusiasm as newbie but you will learn with the time that real world if different than school training.
Is obvious that DH instructors are profesionals with all my respect, but there is no way that you recieved better education in DH school that in a Dental School, not way! But dont feel bad, you will be part of a team in a dental practice. in this team every one has an special and especific task. You only need to know the necesary, what you have been trained to do. Prohpy's, exams, OHI, SPR if the office allow you to do that. I am not saying that DH is less important thant DH's just saying that the Dental training is more complete and bette.
I believed that DH is a career that should be more complemented with advanced education ( master degree's) and expanded funtions in the dental office ( as well as a better salary!;)
Is the DH's who make the most of the productivity in the Dental Office.
Keep yourself studying because Dentist will respect you for that, and good luck in the Boards.

Whoa there pard! First off I probably have more experience than you so I'm not a "newbie". I spent eight years in the Navy as a dental technician including 3 years managing a dental clinic in La Maddelena, Sardinia, Italy where I was THE Dental Hygienist. I recall sending only one case I couldn't handle, to Naples for treatment while all others I treated right there. I'm told by my dentist friends, that many dental schools hire RDH's to teach preventative hygiene care to students who recieve only 1-2 months of classroom and clinic time in this area. To whom would you trust your periodontal pockets? Periodontal surgery is another matter and can only be ethically left to a periodontist (General practitioners beware, don't get in over your head, I've seen it happen). Dental Hygiene is a specialty that will someday become the dominating power in the practice of holistic medicine as it pertains to dentistry. In the 70's the makers of 8-track tapes had to learn to make cassettes, in the 90's they had to learn the technology of CD's and now in the new mellinum we have the microchip media players. I see a day when students wanting to enter a dental school will have a new choice in specialties. That of being a DDS-DH and they will be taught by the most knowledgeable people available. The Dental Hygienist with a Masters or Doctorate degree. Dental students go through a lot of training. The chemistry and pharmacology blows me away. But for shear volume and quality of real patient training, you won't find a better clinician than a dedicated to their profession, DENTAL HYGIENIST.

Russ,
What you said about DDS-DH is and utopia. I believed that you have the best interested and expectations for DH, but Dentistry is moving in another way. The new treatment for Perio disease with laser therapy is probably the latest.
ADHA had working in the elaboration of the new Dental Hygiene M.S. program. You can find that new program in some Universities already. But after the completition of that program you will have more patient management considerations, knoledge in prevention of oral disease but same salary and responsabilities in Dental office.
I believed that in the future DH should gain independece for Dentistry, ( ADHA from ADA) and expande funtions of DH's. Sealants and composites class I , uniradicular extrations, and basic dentistry.
This should be oriented for the gross of the community and low income population that can't afford the luxury of a prymare care dentist.
There is a lot to do to get that done.
I am a Dentist, and I Hygienist I know the differences between one and the other.

Steve RDH in Wolcott, Connecticut said: The salary wont rise just because male presence. The huge increase in the nurse salary in the last years is due the high demand of nurses. In the Dental field, assistant will learn soon to do same duties as hygienist and that will stop the salaries to go up. In adition to that, Dentistry has become in just a busines without caring for thebest interest of the people anymore.
There is not evidence or research that shows the effectiveness of regular prophy in the treatment of periodisease. Only in healthy patients is were you can perform regular 45 min. SRP per quad is effective in people with perio disease (most of the population. But once again dentist just let you clcean above the line gum ( regular adult prophy).. what a waste of time!!!even if you remove the supregingival calculus and plaque if you didnt remove the subgingival deposits and treat the disease, it will spread even more.....Is like go to the Doctor with Neumonia and they gave you just a cought supressand!!!!

Steve,

I live in Florida and they are trying to let assistant scale supragingivaly. I can't believe this. YES, WE ARE BEING PHASE OUT SLOWLY BUT SURELY. They have more money and membership to back them up. WE, DON'T. If the law pass it will effect the entire east cost too. To all those who don't believe me...just watch and see. We can fight and fight and hope for the best.

I'm sure some rdh's may only scale above the gumline, but I have never cleaned that way. I don't care if it is a regular prophy, gross debridement, or SRP, how do you stay above the gumline only? I don't know, perhaps it's how I was trained, but I automatically scale and explore subg regardless of their health.

Olivia,

Each time you tear apart the long junctional epithelium of a healthy patient you are making it easier for infection to start. Why do you think patients wince when you scale nice pink gums?

If the tissue does not easily retract from the root structure leave it alone. Please do not be one of those that cannot feel for the approach of the bottom of the pocket with a probe, and instead pushes until their fingertip blanches white to get a reading.

1969 training at its best, from what I am infering, is the issue at hand.

If it is attached, it is healthy.

Smooth roots do not promote health, they inhibit LJE formation. CEs my god the proper CEs need to be mandated country wide.

No periodontitis presents with attached tissue. BTW I brought two class III perio patients to my boards and got a perfect score except for filling out my name in military form instead of civilian. Last name first lost me a point. Wilkins is flawed, read the journal of periodontology each issue and toss that big pink bible in the trash.

Scaling healthy patients died out in the early 1980's

Tufts University is where I trained, I am not sure if the deep south believe LJE's exist from what I am reading.

I guess it might just be the fact that the northeast teaches evolution in college vs the bible/creation, in the deep south. I never thought it would go so far as to find its way into medical training. Blue states = Science

If you think I am being mean, let me probe your mouth and not feel for a health LJE. Each Hygienist should be someday subjected to their form of treatment. I love the look on their faces when I grab a 13/14 and use it on an anterior aspect by flipping it around. "What you don't like this being done to you? Sorry I'm behind and don't have time to switch instruments." Not so cool when you are in the chair is it? I'm just the RDH version of House I guess. I seem to never have to call patients to fill my schedule though, I wonder why

Actually, I am originally from Florida. I don't think you are being mean at all. I completely agree. You have obviously misunderstood me. You don't know if a patient has sub-g cal until you explore. That is what I do. Also, I never use a 13/14 on healthy patient's - funny you assume so. My perio instruments are kept in separte packs. I don't care what type of pocket they have or what kind of code they are, they still have cal below the gumline - do you just leave it? I certainly don't. I had a 22 year old female pt the other day and to look in her mouth you would have thought she was healthy - no supra cal and only pseudo pockets (sp). Nothing over a 4mm. She had more sub g cal then I would have ever thought and she bled like a stuck pig. I didn't only clean above her gumline. And no, I don't dig so far into their gums that I do damage. I also was not taught root planing either. You don't have to be a perio patient to have sub-g cal. So, let me rephrase myself so it's not so complicated. If a seemingly healthy patient is seen in my chair, I have an 11/12 EXPLORER that I use to feel for sub-g cal. They are designed to "explore" for calculus, not to damage the JE. If in fact they do have sub-g cal, I remove it. As simple as that. That is the correct approach. OF course I don't try to get instruments under tight healthy pink tissue. When I said healthy, I was only referring to as being non-perio. PS, I took a national board. We all learn the same ciriculum. So I'm not offended at all. This is the correct approach. You do not leave sub-g cal. That was all I meant.

This is the exact reason why it will be so bad if Fl. does allow DA's to do this. There aren't that many people that have perfectly healthy mouths. Most have gingivitis and sub-g cal, and are not periodontally involved. If DAs aren't trained to properly remove it then that is not promoting health in that patient. You can't only remove it coronally. Again, I am not talking about the rare tight healthy pink patients. Point being, this is going to be a disaster in patient care. DAs are going to clean, scale, or whatever you call it, only above the gums and leave the rest. How do you think perio begins? In fact, this can promote the tissue to heal around the tooth while there is cal still below the gumline. That can also lead to periodontal abscesses.

They aren't going to know the difference b/w any of it and are going to be used to do all of it. DDs are going to use them to treat any kind of patient regardless of their condition just so they can pay them less. They are the ones that are going to need to know what an JE is. I can only hope and pray that it won't happen. I'm not saying that this will bleed into other professions, but I wouldn't want to go to the hosp. and have a nurses aid perform nursing duties for me or my family without proper training. Is that what I have to look forward to. And then what, the surg. techs do my surgery.

cavitron in miami, Florida said: Steve,

I live in Florida and they are trying to let assistant scale supragingivaly. I can't believe this. YES, WE ARE BEING PHASE OUT SLOWLY BUT SURELY. They have more money and membership to back them up. WE, DON'T. If the law pass it will effect the entire east cost too. To all those who don't believe me...just watch and see. We can fight and fight and hope for the best.

There is also a proposal for MA. The ADA is behind all this. This is all political.

Olivia in Morganton, North Carolina said: I'm sure some rdh's may only scale above the gumline, but I have never cleaned that way. I don't care if it is a regular prophy, gross debridement, or SRP, how do you stay above the gumline only? I don't know, perhaps it's how I was trained, but I automatically scale and explore subg regardless of their health.

I understand perfect your position Olivia, but you have to be carefull with the liability in case of malpraxis. If you go supragingival be sure that the dentist knows that in case of emergency. Be sure that you have the right instruments as well. A non responsive theraphy is common causes of litigation in court with Periodontist.

Steve in Meriden, Connecticut said: I understand perfect your position Olivia, but you have to be carefull with the liability in case of malpraxis. If you go supragingival be sure that the dentist knows that in case of emergency. Be sure that you have the right instruments as well. A non responsive theraphy is common causes of litigation in court with Periodontist.

If I go supraginval or sub gingival? At my office, that is the ONLY way. You wouldn't get away with leaving anything under the gums. You would be told to go back and redo it. When I started working there he checked my patient's with an explorer to ensure that I was doing a thorough job. He knows I do now. That is the same way that we learned in school. Our instructors checked our patient's by exploring UNDER the gumline for residual cal. Not just perio patient's but ALL patient's. That is how we were graded. That is also the way that every other office (good office) handles their prophy's. That is also the way that I was graded on my board patient (who was not a perio patient - 22 yrs old without perio but mod supra and subg cal. That was what they had to have to qualify. They could NOT be periodontally involved.) You run into legal problems when the patient't aren't cleaned correctly and aren't diagnosed with perio. No offense to you, but I don't care how ins. describes a prophy, they also call it SRP but we don't do root planning anymore either. I have never heard of anyone doing a prophy by ONLY scaling ABOVE the GUMLINE. I am NOT talking about the JE - the gumline. And what emergency? Bacterial endocarditis? Our patient's are premedicated according to the new guidelines.