HUGE DROP IN WAGES FOR RDH IN BC + IF THIS IS A WAKE UP CALL FOR THE BC HYGIENISTS TO FOR A UNION ?

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NO JOB for RDH in BC in Surrey, British Columbia

70 months ago

THERE ARE NO JOBS IN BC AT ALL ESPECIALLY IN THE LOWER MAINLAND AREA OR SOME DDS ARE OFFERING ONLY $32-$35/HOUR FOR 1 or 2 DAYS/WEEK PART TIME. CONSIDERING $40-$45 COMPARED TO LAST YEAR IT'S A HUGE DROP WITHIN LAST 6 MONTHS. I DON'T KNOW IF IT WILL HELP TO FORM A BC or CANADIAN DENTAL HYGIENIST UNION TO GUARANTEE MINIMUM EQUAL WAGE. I WOULD LIKE TO HEAR FROM OTHERS AND IF THIS JOB ISSUE SHOULD BE BROUGHT UP TO THE ATTENTION OF THE BCDHA & CDHA.

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kim in Surrey, British Columbia

70 months ago

no Dental hygiene jobs in BC + salary $32/hour that is a huge drop

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nojobs in Toronto, Ontario

70 months ago

I am glad to read that the surplus in Ontario is now becoming a national issue.
If there is no entry to practice to degree requirements in the near future, the thousands of unemployed
hygienists will band together to form unions. It is going to be the only alternative.

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30 year vet in Edmonton, Alberta

69 months ago

NO JOB for RDH in BC in Surrey, British Columbia said: THERE ARE NO JOBS IN BC AT ALL ESPECIALLY IN THE LOWER MAINLAND AREA OR SOME DDS ARE OFFERING ONLY $32-$35/HOUR FOR 1 or 2 DAYS/WEEK PART TIME. CONSIDERING $40-$45 COMPARED TO LAST YEAR IT'S A HUGE DROP WITHIN LAST 6 MONTHS. I DON'T KNOW IF IT WILL HELP TO FORM A BC or CANADIAN DENTAL HYGIENIST UNION TO GUARANTEE MINIMUM EQUAL WAGE. I WOULD LIKE TO HEAR FROM OTHERS AND IF THIS JOB ISSUE SHOULD BE BROUGHT UP TO THE ATTENTION OF THE BCDHA & CDHA.

Too many DH grads from far too many DH Schools has perpetuated a saturation of the market across Canada. It's done a DISSERVICE to the profession, probably the retreat of education standards will be a DISSERVICE to the Public Good, and has really only profited 'one' group of people......

Go to your Provincial and Federal Association, go to your Provincial DH School, go to your Ombudsman of your province, speak up to your patients of your education standards. Try to speak to your Minister of Education about the conflict of interest that exists within the issue of WHO OWNS all the private schools opening up and DO THEY HAVE A CONFLICT OF INTEREST IN OWNING ONE??? I

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skrrrrrr in Victoria, British Columbia

69 months ago

I like some of the ideas suggested above. The solution will require a lot of lobbying and protesting to the powers that be. I don't see a conflict of interest, but I do see a significant drop in the education criteria which is disturbing. I can't understand why so many schools opened up hoping to make a go of it - many are doomed to fail by simple economic realities.

I cannot see how a 'union' can help at all. First of all, we do have a 'union,' and we also have provincial 'unions.' They are called the associations (CDHA, BCDHA, ,etc), and they are charged to advocate, lobby and look out for our interests. No doubt they have failed on many counts, and I am mad at them for doing this. Some folks don't understand that the CDHA et al do not set the regulatory standards, but can only ask the provincial regulatory bodies to change things. Membership in the associations is voluntary and many don't care to join.

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skrrrrrr in Victoria, British Columbia

69 months ago

Now if you want to set up an alternate 'union' more like the teachers' unions, with collective bargaining rights, that would be a big change. There are a few barriers to making this work: 1/we are employed by thousands of tiny businesses - dentists. Unions are most effective against a large company with hundreds of employees. Large companies (eg hospitals with nurses) cannot easily replace their whole workforce with scabs. Small companies can more easily survive a strike by hiring scabs, and with a surplus of hygienists, scabs will be aplenty, and dentists will do fine without you. 2/plenty of unions are incapable of earning job protections or wage increases, and are sometimes easily shut down. Walmart has abused workers for decadees and shut out the unions. I have worked as a CAW autoworker where the union did help immensely, and I have worked in small companies where the union was ineffectual.

I would be very interesting to see how a unionized hygiene profession would work. I could live with it, but not sure if it would improve things at all

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skrrrrrr in Victoria, British Columbia

69 months ago

3/You have to get a majority of hygienists to join the union. So many are adequately employed and confident that their experience and skills lend them good job security and wages. The average hygienist still makes over 40/hr here - so why change? Other hygienists have formed their own practices and will not be thrilled about having their staff go on strike.

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Suzanne in Terre Haute, Indiana

69 months ago

I don't know if a union is the answer or not but somehow there has to be accountability for what is going on with our lack of jobs, excess amount of people still enrolling in new programs, drop in wages, no benefits for health, disability or retirement. We also need a place to turn when expected to practice outside our scope of practice (diagnose) or are terminated for bogus reasons. I think by the time hygienists band together it will be too late. There would be plenty of hygienists who would cross a picket line but think how it would look for the patients who have established a trusting relationship with their hygienist to see her on the street with a picket sign and know that the dr won't give her insurance or that he fired her without just cause? Many patients assume we have it made in all respects of our jobs. We need to get the truth out to the media and John Q. Public.

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skrrrrrr in Victoria, British Columbia

69 months ago

Suzanne, the situation is somewhat different than you imply in Canada. The main benefit hygienists do not get is a retirement package (outside of the govt social security), which is a valid concern. The main concern of hygienists here is not so much abuse by employers, they are currently most concerned with job and income security, and only for the past 2 years.

We do have fairly strong laws and enforcement of wrongful dismissal here. We do not have 'at will' laws like in the USA where doctors can really abuse their workers and fire them without severance (severance is very strict here, and even the slightest malfeasance can win a worker thousand$ more). I'm not sure what you mean by 'dr not giving her insurance,' either. Here, unemployment insurance is independent and universal - it does not affect the employer when a worker receives it, and the employer can't do much to try and get it denied. All workers in Canada get 12 months paid leave off work for maternity with their job guaranteed reserved for them to return to (hard for Americans to believe it, but it is true). Of course we all get full medical coverage by simply being Canadian citizens, so that never comes off our take home pay (well, it comes out of our income tax, but is cheap). We have disability insurance system, and some (like me) have private disability insurance. We also have some benefits from our dental hygiene associations on top of that.

If anyone finds that their employer in Canada has violated these regulations, I highly recommend contacting the labour authority in your region, and your dental hygiene association - they know how to help you get the situation resolved, or get legal representation if needed. They have a lot of teeth to strike back!

I still don't get your harping on hygienists 'diagnosing,' most docs dislike hygienists having such power. But here in BC hygienists are required to diagnose perio - by law.

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skrrrrrr in Victoria, British Columbia

69 months ago

There is one other thing to look at also, now that so many hygienists are opening their own clinics across Canada - that is the issue of who controls the hygiene fees. This is an issue the associations have taken an interest in. Most recently, we won the right for indy hygienists to bill the insurance companies directly. But in most provinces, we do not have a say in how much this fee is.

In BC, fees are negotiated collectively by the dentists with insurance companies. They have frozen hygiene fees ever since indy hygiene was made legal - now THAT is a conflict of interest, perhaps an antitrust violation? This has frozen out indy hygiene clinics for a while, and shifted dental revenue more to restorative fees. The reality is that one significant stakeholder is currently frozen out of the fee negotiations - the hygienists.

This is an issue which hardly affects most hygienists, because they work for dentists. But I think we owe it to the profession to help gain some control over hygiene wages, because indy hygiene needs it to thrive and provide another option for resolving the job shortage. So control over fees is another thing that the associations, or a union, should focus on in addition to the private school problem.

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Suzanne in Terre Haute, Indiana

69 months ago

I guess I harp on diagnosing because it's always expected of me to have the pt chart completed with new cavities, crown and bridge, partials, extractions, and perio BEFORE the dr comes in for the exam. Perio yes, I know all about it. I was trained and licensed to diagnose and educate the patient on it. But the rest is the doctor's job. I feel I should point out areas and ask him/her to check it, update pt chart with new perio #'s, missing teeth yes. But for me to have it diagnosed, charted, the patient pre-heated on tx., pre-treatment estimates already done, and paperwork ready to go for pt. signature of acceptance of fees and appointments when he/she comes in for that 1 minute or less of a supposed exam is bogus. I just won't do it. I've been reprimanded for not making the call pre-exam if an extraction or rct and crown was necessary. That's not my job. I didn't go to school for that and I wouldn't want anyone but the doctor to make that determination on me, so I don't do it. Don't mean to "harp". I'm burnt out on doc's that expect me to do things they know full well I'm not licensed to do. That's why so many of us are screaming for more to help us and protect us. You and your wife sound like you treat your staff well and play by the rules but many many do not. It's a bad day when you're given a paper with a quota at 7:45am of how many fillings and how many crowns you are to have sold before lunch and then again before 5.

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skrrr in Saanichton, British Columbia

69 months ago

I totally agree, that kind of 'diagnosis' and pre-estimation before the doc comes is fairly outrageous! I haven't run across it myself, but I have run across docs asking us to do some other things I disagree with. It can be awkward to be a professional and be prepared to refuse to do harm to a patient while fearing for your job - very legitimate concerns.

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Concerned patient in Kamloops, British Columbia

68 months ago

I appreciate all people in the health care professions, but I do have concerns when a group of people come out of school after 2,3, or 4 years of training and start expecting to make $40 plus dollars an hour, then complain when they are only making $35 per hour. Maybe if there are lower wages paid then we patients may not have to keep paying higher and higher hygiene bills each year to have our teeth cleaned. I have talked to dentists and they do not come out of school with guaranteed hourly wages, they have unbelieveable debts, go to school for 7-8 years, have to fork out huge sums of money to purchase practices, and many make less per year when they first get out of school than most hygienists. Maybe hygienist should all be paid a set percent of the money they generate for the dental office they work at rather than a dollar per hour figure. And unions - there was a time and place for them, when the working class were taken advantage of by the business owners- but even at $32 dollars an hour or higher is not being taken advantage of in most Canadian's opinions. Maybe more hygienist should take the financial risks of running there own practices, and see if their take home is as good as they are getting working as a part of a dental team.

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RDH in Markham, Ontario

68 months ago

Concerned patient in Kamloops, British Columbia said: I appreciate all people in the health care professions, but I do have concerns when a group of people come out of school after 2,3, or 4 years of training and start expecting to make $40 plus dollars an hour, then complain when they are only making $35 per hour. Maybe if there are lower wages paid then we patients may not have to keep paying higher and higher hygiene bills each year to have our teeth cleaned. I have talked to dentists and they do not come out of school with guaranteed hourly wages, they have unbelieveable debts, go to school for 7-8 years, have to fork out huge sums of money to purchase practices, and many make less per year when they first get out of school than most hygienists. Maybe hygienist should all be paid a set percent of the money they generate for the dental office they work at rather than a dollar per hour figure. And unions - there was a time and place for them, when the working class were taken advantage of by the business owners- but even at $32 dollars an hour or higher is not being taken advantage of in most Canadian's opinions. Maybe more hygienist should take the financial risks of running there own practices, and see if their take home is as good as they are getting working as a part of a dental team.

The amount a patient pays for their dental hygiene treatment has nothing to do with how much the RDH is paid. You will pay the same amount to the DDS regardless. A fair percentage of the fees we are billing would be about 30%. If your appointment is approximately 1hr long and you pay about $145 for that, why don't you figure out how much 30% of that would be? The fees have increased over the last 15 yrs, but the wages have dropped. Don't most occupations get cost of living increases to account for inflation? Dental hygienists don't! In T.O., RDHs were paid $35-$40/hr back in 1995. Wages cut by 25% and hours cut on top of that IS being taken advantage of.

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RDH in Markham, Ontario

68 months ago

cont'd
Many occupations do have some form of benefits(ie: dental, retirement)Most dental hygienists DON'T recieve this. Imagine working for a dentist for years, being the only other person in the office that that is providing a service to bring income into the practice, and when you or someone in your family needs dental treatment, you are given an invoice and have to pay out of pocket if your spouse doesn't have insurance. This does happen! We carry liability insurance, because we carry a lot of responsibility. We pay membership fees to be licensed in order to practice. We have to pay for continuing ed ourselves because the dentists don't want to pay for that even though it benefits them. If we want disability insurance, we have to pay out of pocket for that too and it is very costly. We are the reason that the patients are coming into the pracice on a regular basis, bringing $$$ in. WE are the ones that are preventing oral disease to improve YOUR health. Remember, prevention is better than cure. Don't you think we should be compensated fairly for this and not have to worry that we will have our jobs taken by (possibly)less qualified individuals who come cheaper just because they are desperate? NO benefits, NO job security and with no jobs available VERY LITTLE in the way of options. What's it like where you work?

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1RDH in Airdrie, Alberta

68 months ago

Concerned patient in Kamloops, British Columbia said: I appreciate all people in the health care professions, but I do have concerns when a group of people come out of school after 2,3, or 4 years of training and start expecting to make $40 plus dollars an hour, then complain when they are only making $35 per hour. Maybe if there are lower wages paid then we patients may not have to keep paying higher and higher hygiene bills each year to have our teeth cleaned. I have talked to dentists and they do not come out of school with guaranteed hourly wages, they have unbelieveable debts, go to school for 7-8 years, have to fork out huge sums of money to purchase practices, and many make less per year when they first get out of school than most hygienists. Maybe hygienist should all be paid a set percent of the money they generate for the dental office they work at rather than a dollar per hour figure. And unions - there was a time and place for them, when the working class were taken advantage of by the business owners- but even at $32 dollars an hour or higher is not being taken advantage of in most Canadian's opinions. Maybe more hygienist should take the financial risks of running there own practices, and see if their take home is as good as they are getting working as a part of a dental team.

Why don't you seek treatment at an independent hygiene practice? Fees would be less and you would be supporting someone who had the ambition to set out and start their own practice. Whether or not their take home is "as good as...part of a dental team" you'll get an experienced, self fulfilled hygienist.

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Suzanne in Terre Haute, Indiana

68 months ago

Concerned patient in Kamloops, British Columbia said: I appreciate all people in the health care professions, but I do have concerns when a group of people come out of school after 2,3, or 4 years of training and start expecting to make $40 plus dollars an hour, then complain when they are only making $35 per hour. Maybe if there are lower wages paid then we patients may not have to keep paying higher and higher hygiene bills each year to have our teeth cleaned. I have talked to dentists and they do not come out of school with guaranteed hourly wages, they have unbelieveable debts, go to school for 7-8 years, have to fork out huge sums of money to purchase practices, and many make less per year when they first get out of school than most hygienists. Maybe hygienist should all be paid a set percent of the money they generate for the dental office they work at rather than a dollar per hour figure. And unions - there was a time and place for them, when the working class were taken advantage of by the business owners- but even at $32 dollars an hour or higher is not being taken advantage of in most Canadian's opinions. Maybe more hygienist should take the financial risks of running there own practices, and see if their take home is as good as they are getting working as a part of a dental team.

Your fees for your cleaning and other procedures are set by what insurance will pay. When they agree to pay say $50 for a set of x-rays, you will be charged somewhere in that range. Even if you go to a fee for service practice it will not be much higher because they have to be "reasonable and customary". You are out of line to argue any points about a hygienists wages until you have gone through the program, taken a nat'l and state board licensing exam and worked 8 or 9 hour days with no bathroom break and no lunch. Not to mention producing $2K or more for the practice and walking out with 10% or less in your own pocket.

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exp in Epping, New Hampshire

68 months ago

Concerned patient in Kamloops, British Columbia said: I appreciate all people in the health care professions, but I do have concerns when a group of people come out of school after 2,3, or 4 years of training and start expecting to make $40 plus dollars an hour, then complain when they are only making $35 per hour. Maybe if there are lower wages paid then we patients may not have to keep paying higher and higher hygiene bills each year to have our teeth cleaned. I have talked to dentists and they do not come out of school with guaranteed hourly wages, they have unbelieveable debts, go to school for 7-8 years, have to fork out huge sums of money to purchase practices, and many make less per year when they first get out of school than most hygienists. Maybe hygienist should all be paid a set percent of the money they generate for the dental office they work at rather than a dollar per hour figure. And unions - there was a time and place for them, when the working class were taken advantage of by the business owners- but even at $32 dollars an hour or higher is not being taken advantage of in most Canadian's opinions. Maybe more hygienist should take the financial risks of running there own practices, and see if their take home is as good as they are getting working as a part of a dental team.

Dear Patient, Don't you think that the Dr.'s increase the cost to the patients, while the R.D.H.'s still continue to make same or lower wage....someone is getting more: the Dr., O.Mgr, D.A., BUT...BUT...the R.D.H.'s wage goes down and some are replaced with the overabundance of newbies to save a dollar. Bottom line: the R.D.H. gets ....... .

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skrrr in Victoria, British Columbia

68 months ago

Hate to say it, but Concerned Patient is sounding like the voice of reason in this thread. 70-90k/yr for 3 yrs education is not equal to what similar education can get you. Name one skilled trade in which you grad from community college in 2-3 yrs, and walk into a job at 80k/yr (even 6 figures for some).

Hygiene fees are somewhat disconnected from hygiene wages, though. A practice in BC would be hard pressed to bill much over twice what a hygienist's wage is. No such thing as a hyg billing $2K in a day in BC, unless she is doing Zoom-scam all day. Even if a hyg does SRP all day, nonstop for 7 hours, she can only bill a maximum of $840 in a day here. At 45/hr she is being paid over third of billings - closer to half with no-shows factored in.

BUT, concerned patient is missing one HUGE other issue: he/she enjoys extremely low hygiene fees as a resident of BC. Concerned Patient, you will easily pay double for hygiene in AB or QC, and 50% more in other provinces. You, the patient, have all the gravy - the docs are not making money off of hygiene in BC! There is absolutely no reason for any patient in BC to complain about their fees - they are c-h-e-a-p!!!

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1RDH in Airdrie, Alberta

68 months ago

skrrr in Victoria, British Columbia said: Hate to say it, but Concerned Patient is sounding like the voice of reason in this thread. 70-90k/yr for 3 yrs education is not equal to what similar education can get you. Name one skilled trade in which you grad from community college in 2-3 yrs, and walk into a job at 80k/yr (even 6 figures for some).

Hygiene fees are somewhat disconnected from hygiene wages, though. A practice in BC would be hard pressed to bill much over twice what a hygienist's wage is. No such thing as a hyg billing $2K in a day in BC, unless she is doing Zoom-scam all day. Even if a hyg does SRP all day, nonstop for 7 hours, she can only bill a maximum of $840 in a day here. At 45/hr she is being paid over third of billings - closer to half with no-shows factored in.

BUT, concerned patient is missing one HUGE other issue: he/she enjoys extremely low hygiene fees as a resident of BC. Concerned Patient, you will easily pay double for hygiene in AB or QC, and 50% more in other provinces. You, the patient, have all the gravy - the docs are not making money off of hygiene in BC! There is absolutely no reason for any patient in BC to complain about their fees - they are c-h-e-a-p!!!

Ummm...welders make that after 3 years, bricklayers, etc etc and they have a union to ensure fair treatment and wages. Oh and they are only doing schooling part time...school 2 months of the year, then hours, then school, etc etc. And they're still getting that kind of wage.
Add the year or so of university prerequisities to that hygiene and you've got 3-4 years of schooling at least (excluding the quickie schools...a whole other topic). Factor in the production they bring to the office and you've got a fair wage.

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smile in Calgary, Alberta

68 months ago

skrrr in Victoria, British Columbia said: Hate to say it, but Concerned Patient is sounding like the voice of reason in this thread. 70-90k/yr for 3 yrs education is not equal to what similar education can get you. Name one skilled trade in which you grad from community college in 2-3 yrs, and walk into a job at 80k/yr (even 6 figures for some).

Hygiene fees are somewhat disconnected from hygiene wages, though. A practice in BC would be hard pressed to bill much over twice what a hygienist's wage is. No such thing as a hyg billing $2K in a day in BC, unless she is doing Zoom-scam all day. Even if a hyg does SRP all day, nonstop for 7 hours, she can only bill a maximum of $840 in a day here. At 45/hr she is being paid over third of billings - closer to half with no-shows factored in.

BUT, concerned patient is missing one HUGE other issue: he/she enjoys extremely low hygiene fees as a resident of BC. Concerned Patient, you will easily pay double for hygiene in AB or QC, and 50% more in other provinces. You, the patient, have all the gravy - the docs are not making money off of hygiene in BC! There is absolutely no reason for any patient in BC to complain about their fees - they are c-h-e-a-p!!!

I don't understand how hygiene fees can be so low in BC. I went to a conference in Van facilitated by a dentist who said that she didn't like doing dentures so she drastically raised her fee but people continued to pay if they wanted the dentures (she now likes doing dentures-go figure). She also said that the more experienced RDH's charge more than the newbies. It was explained to the pts fees were charged on basis of the eperience; they were fine with this. It sounds like dentists can charge what they want. Ins cos will pay a portion & pts pay the diff. Fee guides are guides not the rule. This is from a BC dentist.

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skrrrrrr in Victoria, British Columbia

68 months ago

ha! Rasie hyg fees and watch all those patient with '100% insurance' walk down the road to an office that charges fee guide.

It is easier to raise fees for more advanced procedures like crowns and dentures (implants and other cosmetics are 'unregulated'). I think it would be possible to raise fees for SRP, and offices already charge higher fees to Periowave and desensitization. The problem is that you now have to spend more effort and time 'selling' this pricier fees to the patient. They are receptive to what their insurance covers, so you can accept the insurance and save a lot of selling time for the low fees, or try to sell higher fees and get labelled 'one of those practices that overcharges, nickels and dimes the patient.'

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nojobs in Mississauga, Ontario

68 months ago

skrrr in Victoria, British Columbia said: Hate to say it, but Concerned Patient is sounding like the voice of reason in this thread. 70-90k/yr for 3 yrs education is not equal to what similar education can get you. Name one skilled trade in which you grad from community college in 2-3 yrs, and walk into a job at 80k/yr (even 6 figures for some).

Hygiene fees are somewhat disconnected from hygiene wages, though. A practice in BC would be hard pressed to bill much over twice what a hygienist's wage is. No such thing as a hyg billing $2K in a day in BC, unless she is doing Zoom-scam all day. Even if a hyg does SRP all day, nonstop for 7 hours, she can only bill a maximum of $840 in a day here. At 45/hr she is being paid over third of billings - closer to half with no-shows factored in.

BUT, concerned patient is missing one HUGE other issue: he/she enjoys extremely low hygiene fees as a resident of BC. Concerned Patient, you will easily pay double for hygiene in AB or QC, and 50% more in other provinces. You, the patient, have all the gravy - the docs are not making money off of hygiene in BC! There is absolutely no reason for any patient in BC to complain about their fees - they are c-h-e-a-p!!!

I hate to say it, but concerned patient sounds more like a disgruntled dentist to me.
I have never heard a "patient" being so concerned about the hygiene profession.
Air traffic controllers do very well with little schooling.

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smile in Calgary, Alberta

68 months ago

skrrrrrr in Victoria, British Columbia said: ha! Rasie hyg fees and watch all those patient with '100% insurance' walk down the road to an office that charges fee guide.

It is easier to raise fees for more advanced procedures like crowns and dentures (implants and other cosmetics are 'unregulated'). I think it would be possible to raise fees for SRP, and offices already charge higher fees to Periowave and desensitization. The problem is that you now have to spend more effort and time 'selling' this pricier fees to the patient. They are receptive to what their insurance covers, so you can accept the insurance and save a lot of selling time for the low fees, or try to sell higher fees and get labelled 'one of those practices that overcharges, nickels and dimes the patient.'


The dentist did make a point though, why should you who has how much more experience charge the same price as a new grad? Would you pay a brand new mechanic the same price as a mechanic with many years experience? No you wouldn't & you expect the experienced mechanic's expertise. I don't pay my hairdresser who is new to the salon the same as someone who is a master talent either. According to the dentist, this is what has to be explained to the patients. Every other profession charges more for experienced professionals the new grads. Why should hygiene be any different? Dentists need to look at this & use this to their advantage. Otherwise, there is no reason any of us should attend courses on new techniques to advance ourselves & have the ability to provide better, up-to-date treatment to the patient. It certainly doesn't benefit us. Concerned patient has to realize that we are required to continue our education & that the 18 mths-4yrs schooling is just the start of our education. It is illegal for us not to continue our education. Unfortunately dental fees & our wages don't reflect this.

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smile in Calgary, Alberta

68 months ago

smile in Calgary, Alberta said: The dentist did make a point though, why should you who has how much more experience charge the same price as a new grad? Would you pay a brand new mechanic the same price as a mechanic with many years experience? No you wouldn't & you expect the experienced mechanic's expertise. I don't pay my hairdresser who is new to the salon the same as someone who is a master talent either. According to the dentist, this is what has to be explained to the patients. Every other profession charges more for experienced professionals the new grads. Why should hygiene be any different? Dentists need to look at this & use this to their advantage. Otherwise, there is no reason any of us should attend courses on new techniques to advance ourselves & have the ability to provide better, up-to-date treatment to the patient. It certainly doesn't benefit us. Concerned patient has to realize that we are required to continue our education & that the 18 mths-4yrs schooling is just the start of our education. It is illegal for us not to continue our education. Unfortunately dental fees & our wages don't reflect this.

I guess what I am saying is that we shouldn't be selling higher prices, we should be selling our skills & expertise. this may be worth more to patients than we think.

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Suzanne in Terre Haute, Indiana

68 months ago

Many patients in the US don't even know their rights as a patient let alone anything about the hygienist. I doubt many even think of how long we've been practicing. Some even think we're nurses! They don't know we went to college or that we need to be licensed to practice. Many in the US would settle for less experience and little quality just to be able to get ANY tx done. So many people have no insurance benefits and no employment or barely making their basic expenses that dental tx is a luxury not a necessity. In the midwest many many patients have grown up with generations of family and friends with dentures and it is acceptable and affordable. I don't see selling our skills and expertise as a bargaining tool any longer. Many offices here are struggling as well to even keep a hygienist working. Unionization might just shut us down altogether?

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Susann in Columbus, Ohio

68 months ago

Concerned patient in Kamloops, British Columbia said: I appreciate all people in the health care professions, but I do have concerns when a group of people come out of school after 2,3, or 4 years of training and start expecting to make $40 plus dollars an hour, then complain when they are only making $35 per hour. Maybe if there are lower wages paid then we patients may not have to keep paying higher and higher hygiene bills each year to have our teeth cleaned. I have talked to dentists and they do not come out of school with guaranteed hourly wages, they have unbelieveable debts, go to school for 7-8 years, have to fork out huge sums of money to purchase practices, and many make less per year when they first get out of school than most hygienists. Maybe hygienist should all be paid a set percent of the money they generate for the dental office they work at rather than a dollar per hour figure. And unions - there was a time and place for them, when the working class were taken advantage of by the business owners- but even at $32 dollars an hour or higher is not being taken advantage of in most Canadian's opinions. Maybe more hygienist should take the financial risks of running there own practices, and see if their take home is as good as they are getting working as a part of a dental team.

You believe you are very knowledgeable as simply a "concerned patient"? Hmmm...
As a patient, are you aware that you are paying higher and higher bills for EVERYTHING each year..not just hygiene, my friend. I don't know what you do, or did for a living, but..maybe if we lowered your salary, I wouldn't be paying such high prices for my cars, my food, my insurance, etc., etc. Get the drift here.
Yes, dentists usually come out of school with a higher debt load than a hygienist, but they also have the ability to reap an overall higher reward. That is why they choose to take the financial risk. I chose not to.

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Dentist in New Westminster, British Columbia

68 months ago

The original poster, as well as the overwhelming majority of people on this forum, do not understand that DH can not have a union.

Understand, dentistry office is a small business with its independent owners, having a union is not realistic, lets be clear.

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nojobs in Mississauga, Ontario

68 months ago

Dentist in New Westminster, British Columbia said: The original poster, as well as the overwhelming majority of people on this forum, do not understand that DH can not have a union.

Understand, dentistry office is a small business with its independent owners, having a union is not realistic, lets be clear.

Dental Hygiene has changed on so many levels in the last 15 years. What seems unrealistic today, can change tomorrow.
Dental Therapists now in Minnesota,,,will that be the next wave of change for Ontario?

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smile in Regina, Saskatchewan

68 months ago

nojobs in Mississauga, Ontario said: Dental Hygiene has changed on so many levels in the last 15 years. What seems unrealistic today, can change tomorrow.
Dental Therapists now in Minnesota,,,will that be the next wave of change for Ontario?

Dental therapists have been in Saskatchewan & Manitoba for decades. They are also employed in various countries around the world including New Zealand. From what I understand, their wages are higher than hygienists now. Many hygienists in Sask & Man are also therapists.

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nojobs in Mississauga, Ontario

68 months ago

smile in Regina, Saskatchewan said: Dental therapists have been in Saskatchewan & Manitoba for decades. They are also employed in various countries around the world including New Zealand. From what I understand, their wages are higher than hygienists now. Many hygienists in Sask & Man are also therapists.

Yes, thanks I am aware of this. I was basically emphasizing how nothing is unrealistic. In the future, dentistry as
a whole could and will change with respect to the traditional model of RDH working for a dentist. Therapists, independent dental hygiene and perhaps unions would be an example. With this huge influx of unemployed hygienists, there could be a lot of changes.. No one here, including any dentist can deny this.

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smile in Regina, Saskatchewan

68 months ago

nojobs in Mississauga, Ontario said: Yes, thanks I am aware of this. I was basically emphasizing how nothing is unrealistic. In the future, dentistry as
a whole could and will change with respect to the traditional model of RDH working for a dentist. Therapists, independent dental hygiene and perhaps unions would be an example. With this huge influx of unemployed hygienists, there could be a lot of changes.. No one here, including any dentist can deny this.

I was also emphasizing how this may be a realistic route some unemployed RDHs may consider. The school is in PA Sask. At one point the tuition, etc was paid for by the federal government. Yes it is a program set up to deliver dental tx to rural areas but many therapists are working in & around Winnipeg, Regina & Saskatoon. Many are hired by the municipalities in other areas of the country as dental educators (not instructors at a college level-different job altogether) It may be worthwhile for some of the posters on this forum to investigate.

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smile in Regina, Saskatchewan

68 months ago

Suzanne in Terre Haute, Indiana said: Many patients in the US don't even know their rights as a patient let alone anything about the hygienist. I doubt many even think of how long we've been practicing. Some even think we're nurses! They don't know we went to college or that we need to be licensed to practice. Many in the US would settle for less experience and little quality just to be able to get ANY tx done. So many people have no insurance benefits and no employment or barely making their basic expenses that dental tx is a luxury not a necessity. In the midwest many many patients have grown up with generations of family and friends with dentures and it is acceptable and affordable. I don't see selling our skills and expertise as a bargaining tool any longer. Many offices here are struggling as well to even keep a hygienist working. Unionization might just shut us down altogether?

/www.cdha.ca/pdfs/Profession/Resources/bill_of_right.pdf this is the link to the Dental Hygiene Clients Bill of Rights which clients/patients should be made aware of. It is OUR responsibility to make them aware of this. Although this is from Canada, I'm sure the US has a Bill of Rights too.

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Jody in Calgary, Alberta

68 months ago

Susann in Columbus, Ohio said: You believe you are very knowledgeable as simply a "concerned patient"? Hmmm...
As a patient, are you aware that you are paying higher and higher bills for EVERYTHING each year..not just hygiene, my friend. I don't know what you do, or did for a living, but..maybe if we lowered your salary, I wouldn't be paying such high prices for my cars, my food, my insurance, etc., etc. Get the drift here.
Yes, dentists usually come out of school with a higher debt load than a hygienist, but they also have the ability to reap an overall higher reward. That is why they choose to take the financial risk. I chose not to.

Do you really believe you are not taking a financial risk working for a dentist? What would happen to you if your dentist was injured, divorced, moved, bankrupcy, retired, died or whatever else can change his/her life situation? You could hope that the practice is sold & the new dentist wants to keep the staff & has the same practice ideals; there is that chance or you could try to find another job with hopefully the same pay in this economy. When you work for a small business ie a dentist, you are taking a financial risk. You are probably taking more of a financial risk working for someone than working for yourself.

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kim in Surrey, British Columbia

67 months ago

I think CDHA needs to step up and pay attention to the job market, they keep on sending letters for membership renewal, but how can we afford to pay $415 (with new increase in fee) for the CDHA membership and $450 our CDHBC registration license fee without any source of income or job sitting at home. CDHA needs to consider job market and wages and need to lobby for solution to this matter, either by coming up with set rate of wages or looking at the supply of hygienists. I guess more the supply of hygienists is beneficial for the association to bring in more membership fee and is potentially a conflict of interest. Somebody needs to raise their voice and send this message across to the association.

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Emily in Castlegar, British Columbia

67 months ago

I think the wage dental hygienists earn is fair considering the fact that we don't get medical, dental, pension, etc. and our backs and necks are so screwed up after 15-20 years that we have to retire early.

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HYGIENIST NO MORE in Niagara Falls, Ontario

67 months ago

Concerned patient in Kamloops, British Columbia said:
I appreciate all people in the health care professions, but I do have concerns when a group of people come out of school after 2,3, or 4 years of training and start expecting to make $40 plus dollars an hour, then complain when they are only making $35 per hour. Maybe if there are lower wages paid then we patients may not have to keep paying higher and higher hygiene bills each year to have our teeth cleaned. I have talked to dentists and they do not come out of school with guaranteed hourly wages, they have unbelieveable debts, go to school for 7-8 years, have to fork out huge sums of money to purchase practices, and many make less per year when they first get out of school than most hygienists. Maybe hygienist should all be paid a set percent of the money they generate for the dental office they work at rather than a dollar per hour figure. And unions - there was a time and place for them, when the working class were taken advantage of by the business owners- but even at $32 dollars an hour or higher is not being taken advantage of in most Canadian's opinions. Maybe more hygienist should take the financial risks of running there own practices, and see if their take home is as good as they are getting working as a part of a dental team.

I would love to make a percent of the over $200 per hour I am expected to generate where I work.Or i should say worked because I refused to overbill ,I'll take a percentage like the associates 30%.$45 is a drop in the bucket for what is billed. Where does your dentist live?and what does he drive?He's not hurting,your dental hygienist can't support a household on her income in most areas.Every year the fee guide for dentists increases aboriously, ask your dentist when his staff last got a raise and by how much,what benefits and job security he provides. What you pay is set by dentists not hygienists, and is the same even if your dentist doesn't have a hygienis

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sos in Surrey, British Columbia

67 months ago

RDH wake up!
You were overpaid!

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nojobs in Mississauga, Ontario

67 months ago

Rx in Edmonton, Alberta said: www.med.ualberta.ca/education/ume/admissions/dh_stats.cfm

^ source to quoted GPA figures

ahhh, GPA smeeze-g-a
Ita all physical
its all sales.
A salesman makes good commission if he produces.
It's a combo.
To base salary solely on education is REALLY IGNORANT!!!

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30 year vet in Edmonton, Alberta

67 months ago

Rx in Edmonton, Alberta said: You people are unbelievable.

You're JUST dental hygienists... do you know how easy it is to be a dental hygienist?

The mean GPA for ualberta is only 3.34 pre-req and 3.44 cGPA.

The fact that ANY of you gets paid over $30/hr amazes me...

On the other hand, the GPA required to become a pharmacist is at 3.7 and we only make ~45/hr depending on where we work.

The galls some of you have to complain amazes me. I hope you all get put out of work if you're expecting >$40... market saturation and flooding is already here and I hope pretty soon you'll realize that your services are NOT worth $40/hr.[/QUOTE

...........................................

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30 year vet in Edmonton, Alberta

67 months ago

30 year vet in Edmonton, Alberta said:

RX in Edmonton, Alberta......what is it you do please....? are you a pharmacist or a dentist?

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exp in Epping, New Hampshire

67 months ago

30 year vet in Edmonton, Alberta said: RX in Edmonton, Alberta......what is it you do please....? are you a pharmacist or a dentist?

Hi 30 yr. VET, RX is probably a disgruntled DR.? I wonder what his/her situation is as far as work, and regular/set income? We as R.D.H.'s go to school and develop an expertise in our field...it takes alot of hard work, stress level adjustment, and dealing with instructors and people like this...(fill in what you think this person is)to accomplish and successfully obtain a license and degree. That person, is alot of hot air and an instigator. Pay them no mind, for they don't know what we do if they are not in our shoes...to say what they have said.

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exp in Epping, New Hampshire

67 months ago

Rx in Edmonton, Alberta said: You people are unbelievable.

You're JUST dental hygienists... do you know how easy it is to be a dental hygienist?

The mean GPA for ualberta is only 3.34 pre-req and 3.44 cGPA.

The fact that ANY of you gets paid over $30/hr amazes me...

On the other hand, the GPA required to become a pharmacist is at 3.7 and we only make ~45/hr depending on where we work.

The galls some of you have to complain amazes me. I hope you all get put out of work if you're expecting >$40... market saturation and flooding is already here and I hope pretty soon you'll realize that your services are NOT worth $40/hr.

This instigator is a ....Do not pay attention to "it". They have posted on other threads and are not in touvh with our situation...nor are they willing to state their profession....

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exp in Epping, New Hampshire

67 months ago

correction...wrong key: touch.

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smile in Calgary, Alberta

67 months ago

Rx in Edmonton, Alberta said: You people are unbelievable.

You're JUST dental hygienists... do you know how easy it is to be a dental hygienist?

The mean GPA for ualberta is only 3.34 pre-req and 3.44 cGPA....
If you really are a pharmacist, you would know that our services, along with yours, are worth far more than $40/hr. You would know that with all the research that is going on & the results being discovered, you would find that both our professions are an intregal part of overall health. We can help control diabetics, cardiac health pts, immuno compromised pts & the list goes on. Hygiene DOES NOT have to be in a dental office. Along with doctors, who I'm sure you have had a few run ins, dentists don't often look at the med lists. I actually had a pt who was on warfarin & was taking garlic & the dentist didn't catch this...I did an overpaid hygienist. I'm also sure you are aware that with the training RDHs in Ab can now write Rx. Our scope of practice is growing & with that the responsibility & liability. Dentists are no longer responsibile for us, we are & our wages therefore reflect this. But you know, after saying this, maybe it is not fair to us who are self regulated to be paid the same as those who are not. I know alot of pharmacists & I understand where you are coming from. With your education, you are far underpaid. But you are paid by what the governments & insurance cos pay. You do have the oppportunity to make more if you had your own store. You do need to decide if this is your path or not. If not, deal with it.

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smile in Calgary, Alberta

67 months ago

sos in Surrey, British Columbia said: RDH wake up!
You were overpaid!

Without us in the office doing the work, it would not get done. If the dentist did it there would be huge waiting times to get in to see dentists. Do you want to wait a week or 2 for a throbbing toothache??? No, that is why we are there. If hygiene tx didn't get done, the income would not be generated. That generated income is our blood, sweat, tears, education & liability plain & simple!! We are the same as mechanics, hairdressers, etc....we are not support workers, we are service PROVIDERS....no us, NO SERVICE. Do you not think we should get paid more, even as incentive, to provide that service; afterall we pass that on to the patient. My diagnosis can help or hinder the health of your mouth. If I don't get paid for that, why should I care what happens in your mouth. I do my "job", just like a pimp the dentist takes the majority of my profit, I get paid my drop in the bucket, & you the unimformed patient goes on your way. I have no pride in my job & you have crappy hygiene treatment. I get paid better & we all can be happy:) What do you want?

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exp in Epping, New Hampshire

67 months ago

Rx, You are an arrogant, insulting, UNprofessional ....! You will have a hard time in Dental school because of you attitude...I guess we'll see if you can get through that program....What do you have against us? Did you have bad appt.'s with the R.D.H. you see? Do you have a periodontal situation that has caused you to insult our profession? We do, as a profession have a very intense curriculum, and you don't know anything as to what we go through to be licensed! I feel bad for anyone that ultimately works for you as you have a "..." complex. Why don't you go onto the Dentists forum/threads and allow R.D.H.'s to continue to share here, you are not an authority on our field, nor do you possess experience which other R.D.H.'s are looking for. Please leave this site.

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nojobs in Mississauga, Ontario

67 months ago

exp in Epping, New Hampshire said: Rx, You are an arrogant, insulting, UNprofessional ....! You will have a hard time in Dental school because of you attitude...I guess we'll see if you can get through that program....What do you have against us? Did you have bad appt.'s with the R.D.H. you see? Do you have a periodontal situation that has caused you to insult our profession? We do, as a profession have a very intense curriculum, and you don't know anything as to what we go through to be licensed! I feel bad for anyone that ultimately works for you as you have a "..." complex. Why don't you go onto the Dentists forum/threads and allow R.D.H.'s to continue to share here, you are not an authority on our field, nor do you possess experience which other R.D.H.'s are looking for. Please leave this site.

this pharmacist turned dentist will create plenty of headaches for him/herself. Oh well, at least he/she can boast about
his GPA. I doubt anyone will care. In fact, great dentists with great attitudes will see him as no competition not to mention he will create extremely high turnover of staff. Yeah, that is a patients dream to have a dentist like this.

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exp in Epping, New Hampshire

67 months ago

Hi No Jobs, I think he/she is insecure, etc. and hopefully will get the awakening ".." needs to be a REAL professional.
From "...." comments so far "..." is very childish and insecure, so lashes out at real professionals. Grow up and stop insulting others. If you slip and say something in school...if you really are accepted into a Dental Program...you will see you mouth shut very quickly...since you are rude, insensitive, and NOT ALL KNOWING, and perhaps told to leave the program.

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1RDH in Airdrie, Alberta

67 months ago

Rx in Edmonton, Alberta said: Yes, I am a pharmacist.

So does that make us as hygienists SMARTER than you for chosing a profession that requires a lesser GPA and come out getting paid more? hahah. Come on, really this is just silly.
Not all of us have an 18M program under our belts; some of us have a BSc before hygiene, some of us have BSc DH degrees-it's unfair for you to generalize. I agree academics are essential and that's why many of us are pushing for a BSc degree for entry to hygiene.
It's too bad you do not appreciate our profession as many of us repect yours; perhaps when you graduate from dentistry you will see how much value (not just $$ value either) a well qualified and happy hygienist brings to your practice.
BTW if I were you I'd just get my own store/pharmacy-much less headache, more $$ and you wouldn't have to work with a hygienist!!

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