Wages in Edmonton and Calgary

Anon in Langley, British Columbia said: I can assume you have your 4 year Bsc, unfortunately for you, all you've proved with this post is it doesn't take much real intelligence to earn a BSc either. It simply just takes longer. Personally, I'd take one of your generalized Ontario DH's, over one as ignorant as yourself any day. It is sad that the market is flooded, without a doubt. It's a shame that there are new grads who will offer themselves at such low wage, but there are experienced ones who do the same as well. You have chosen to stereotype a group of your own peers, like it or not. Ones who you know ZERO about. I am sure that all of those grads had the intent to flood the market when they made there career choice. And to generalize them by denoting their own specific skill set is whats really pathetic and narrow minded. They hall have the same reg paper as you do sweetheart, and that means their skill set is recognized as equal to likes of yours.

Why the condescending comments? Calling 30 year vet pathetic, narrow-minded, ignorant and lacking "real" intelligence seems like a mask for your "real" feelings, ANON. What is your story? Why are you threatened by her comments? Who are you anyway?

Anon in Langley, British Columbia said: I can assume you have your 4 year Bsc, unfortunately for you, all you've proved with this post is it doesn't take much real intelligence to earn a BSc either. It simply just takes longer. Personally, I'd take one of your generalized Ontario DH's, over one as ignorant as yourself any day. It is sad that the market is flooded, without a doubt. It's a shame that there are new grads who will offer themselves at such low wage, but there are experienced ones who do the same as well. You have chosen to stereotype a group of your own peers, like it or not. Ones who you know ZERO about. I am sure that all of those grads had the intent to flood the market when they made there career choice. And to generalize them by denoting their own specific skill set is whats really pathetic and narrow minded. They hall have the same reg paper as you do sweetheart, and that means their skill set is recognized as equal to likes of yours.

Why the condescending comments? Calling 30 year vet pathetic, narrow-minded, ignorant and lacking "real" intelligence seems like a mask for your "real" feelings, ANON. What is your story? Why are you threatened by her comments? Who are you anyway?

granolagirl in Airdrie, Alberta said: Why the condescending comments? Calling 30 year vet pathetic, narrow-minded, ignorant and lacking "real" intelligence seems like a mask for your "real" feelings, ANON. What is your story? Why are you threatened by her comments? Who are you anyway?

What is it you seem to think I am masking about my feelings? I stated my feelings, and threatened is the last thing I feel. I find it very interesting that I am the one defending the new generation of RDH's, and now I am being attacked. I am an RDH, have been for 10 years. And this is directed at "exp" as well, I would love to know what part of vet's statement is "feeling" for the "DH's" as she calls them? She is being condescending, she is stereotyping, she is insulting them. I have worked in a number of offices and experienced first hand the shortage of employment. I myself have had a dentist threaten my job stability weekly by throwing out fake ads to show me all the others waiting to take my place should she so choose to let me go. Simply to show me how much less she could pay them vs what she was paying me. If you took the time to actually ready what I wrote you would have seen me state how I do feel it is a shame that our colleagues are offering themselves at significantly lower rates, and it is sad that the market is so incredibly flooded. I am saying she shouldn't insult her colleagues who she knows nothing about. I like to believe I have a career, not just a "job" and its sad that you take such little pride in what you do. I myself, and I am not alone in this thinking, believe that on the other side of this equation to the flooding of RDH's has to do with the fact that there are many RDH's who refuse to retire from private practice. I am still fairly young, but I can say that I feel the effects on my body of working in private practice so I can only imagine what I will feel in another 20 years. But please, continue to attack me, I am the bad guy here...

Anon in Langley, British Columbia said: What is it you seem to think I am masking about my feelings? I stated my feelings, and threatened is the last thing I feel. I find it very interesting that I am the one defending the new generation of RDH's, and now I am being attacked. I am an RDH, have been for 10 years. And this is directed at "exp" as well, I would love to know what part of vet's statement is "feeling" for the "DH's" as she calls them? She is being condescending, she is stereotyping, she is insulting them. I have worked in a number of offices and experienced first hand the shortage of employment. I myself have had a dentist threaten my job stability weekly by throwing out fake ads to show me all the others waiting to take my place should she so choose to let me go. Simply to show me how much less she could pay them vs what she was paying me. If you took the time to actually ready what I wrote you would have seen me state how I do feel it is a shame that our colleagues are offering themselves at significantly lower rates, and it is sad that the market is so incredibly flooded. I am saying she shouldn't insult her colleagues who she knows nothing about. I like to believe I have a career, not just a "job" and its sad that you take such little pride in what you do. I myself, and I am not alone in this thinking, believe that on the other side of this equation to the flooding of RDH's has to do with the fact that there are many RDH's who refuse to retire from private practice. I am still fairly young, but I can say that I feel the effects on my body of working in private practice so I can only imagine what I will feel in another 20 years. But please, continue to attack me, I am the bad guy here...

So you are an RDH, want the older ones to retire to make room for you and others? Well, that seems to be self interest. Do you realize, I guess not, that those who choose to continue working , do, due to loss of income and need an income?

cont....to ANON, It seems you know some info. on the present and future oversaturation of the DH field...so you have had good and bad experiences, but choose to diss colleagues who try to inform by their many more years in the field about what's happening? If you had the knowledge of what's happening ie- from this forum, NOW, would you choose to listen to real RDH's or the schools = a business, govt/bls = they are given false info. and are not in our field, articles online = not in our field...much of the info. they choose to BELIEVE is false = loss of $$$, time , energy, etc...to pay for a job if they can find one...or have to retrain, while paying back loans, etc. work and go to school AGAIN for another field? Businesses don't give a ...about the students in DH...they have their jobs, want to keep them, do not assist you in obtaining gainful employment, etc...why would you want students to be dupped? Yes, dupped into a situation/job as that of DH? Are you planning on retiring anytime soon to make way for those younger than you so they can work? A: I don't think so...GL to them and all who choose the DH path, but looking into it's future...I just see our pay, work availibility for all in the field if they want it...not there. DH has come and gone as a career. It is now a very scarce job...

Healthy competition in the marketplace, meant to protect consumers from high prices, is one the goals of our current economic model.

Unfortunately there are too few private hygiene clinics in North America to have any effect toward acieving these goals.

The result? Dentists get richer(as hygiene wages drop), prices for hygiene treatment remain virtually the same, and the job market gets hugely flooded with hygienists.

The competition is now between providers of dental hygiene- not for clients $ but for a job(career if you wish to call it that).

Ditto for many other "workers" in other fields. The rich are getting richer in our global economy. Like it or not, you are a cog in the massive economic wheel.

Pointing fingers at colleagues will not help. Everyone has a story and they are all valid. So the question is not why oversaturation happened or who to blame, but what you plan to do about it, and that is a personal choice. We would be most empowered if we could find something constructive to focus on.

granolagirl in Airdrie, Alberta said: Healthy competition in the marketplace, meant to protect consumers from high prices, is one the goals of our current economic model.

Unfortunately there are too few private hygiene clinics in North America to have any effect toward acieving these goals.

The result? Dentists get richer(as hygiene wages drop), prices for hygiene treatment remain virtually the same, and the job market gets hugely flooded with hygienists.

The competition is now between providers of dental hygiene- not for clients $ but for a job(career if you wish to call it that).

Ditto for many other "workers" in other fields. The rich are getting richer in our global economy. Like it or not, you are a cog in the massive economic wheel...

Granolagirl I completely agree with you, the purpose of my last post was to play devils advocate, to show its both sides that are contributing to the issue. I myself would never go out and point fingers about this issue because I realize it has 2 sides. What I am finding hard to believe, is that no one is addressing the fact that Vet was blatantly verbalizing what her opinion on it was (to blame the schools and to also blame all these young hygienists, along with stating how "obvious" it is that they are incompetent). Instead, I am being subjected to the Spanish inquisition, not so much by yourself but by Exp, and made into this bad guy who dissed a colleague. Well yes, I let her know my views on what she said and I stand by them. She created a stereotype with no solid basis, not addressing any other contributing factors. I don't believe I am not the only one who believes stereotyping to be ignorant.

[QUOTE who="exp in Exeter, New Hampshire"

o be totally honest with you EXP, I don't even want to waste my time responding to what you wrote. You clearly have the same "conspiracy theory" belief, made obvious by your choice to selectively pick and chose what you take from what I am actually saying. I don't mean any disrespect to you, but come on. The truth of it is this, VET dissed and stereotyped these new DH's. You say I apparently am only thinking of my own best interest, and make an attempt at condescension at me with your "do you realize, I guess not" remark. I fully realize what I am saying. Well what about the new grads? Do they not suffer economically? Private practice is physically straining, there are many other ways one can branch off with DH, other than private practice. Those who choose to not retire or branch off an open up these private practice positions because the need this income you stated. I am sorry, but it is not my, nor the new entry registrants fault that in 30 years of bringing in what certainly used to be and still can be a substantial income, SOME and I stress only some, were not planning for their future and for their retirement. No pension is nothing new here, I am planning for mine and have been since day one. Why should the new RDHs suffer for those who chose to not build themselves as solid financial foundation (given in the US medical etc for example is different and hence why I am going out of my way to not generalize) and therefore need this income? I agree the schools were ONE factor, but not the only factor and that is always been my standing, which I was very clear about. Also to be clear, I don't need any room made for me, I am established in my career and employed.

CONTD to Exp:
Sorry that first word should be To*
What you wrote is completely nonsensical. It in reality has nothing to do with what I said & have continued to state. I stated my firm belief in those who create a stereotype, which if you read what Vet has written, is extremely obvious. Stereotyping is ignorant, I don't care what possible group is subjected to it. She states how the skill set is so obviously compromised etc, compromised as compared to whom? Someone with a BSc, such as herself.
If you read the entire forum, you see Vet & others comment about how these "fast tracked schools" take money & to get her BSc takes grades & its connection to her claim there's no wait lists, theirs grades just weren't good enough. Who is dissing whom Exp? There IS/WAS wait lists for UofA, in Sask, and UBC. At one point sask was 10 YEARS. That is a FACT. Also a fact, many Priv Ont schools have higher grade req than it takes to get in to prev named BSc programs. I know many who all need 2 yrs of sciences prior to entry. So do the math, work in summers off etc & you're looking at almost exactly the same amt of time. I know many girls who have loans, not little rich kids, who went through these schools. Those who think they "train you for the board" etc, need to stop being so paranoid. Look at the passing rates, many of these classes grad 50% of those who entered their class.
Reality is its Vet who's dissing the grads & creating stereotypes. There are amazing vets, there are amazing fast track grads. Same on the negative side. There are few jobs in AB, but there are, & if a range of $50-100 avg is dropping wages, you could have fooled me, BC has dropped. Vet doesn't know her R from L, so if she is giving "words of wisdom" I feel for those who listen. SHE is only looking out for herself. I'm not "dupping" anyone, UofA is, I tell ppl the markets flooded. I am also only 10yrs in and early 30s, so no. What about you exp?

CONTD to Exp:
Sorry that first word should be To*
What you wrote is completely nonsensical. It in reality has nothing to do with what I said & have continued to state. I stated my firm belief in those who create a stereotype, which if you read what Vet has written, is extremely obvious. Stereotyping is ignorant, I don't care what possible group is subjected to it. She states how the skill set is so obviously compromised etc, compromised as compared to whom? Someone with a BSc, such as herself.
If you read the entire forum, you see Vet & others comment about how these "fast tracked schools" take money & to get her BSc takes grades & its connection to her claim there's no wait lists, theirs grades just weren't good enough. Who is dissing whom Exp? There IS/WAS wait lists for UofA, in Sask, and UBC. At one point sask was 10 YEARS. That is a FACT. Also a fact, many Priv Ont schools have higher grade req than it takes to get in to prev named BSc programs. I know many who all need 2 yrs of sciences prior to entry. So do the math, work in summers off etc & you're looking at almost exactly the same amt of time. I know many girls who have loans, not little rich kids, who went through these schools. Those who think they "train you for the board" etc, need to stop being so paranoid. Look at the passing rates, many of these classes grad 50% of those who entered their class.
Reality is its Vet who's dissing the grads & creating stereotypes. There are amazing vets, there are amazing fast track grads. Same on the negative side. There are few jobs in AB, but there are, & if a range of $50-100 avg is dropping wages, you could have fooled me, BC has dropped. Vet doesn't know her R from L, so if she is giving "words of wisdom" I feel for those who listen. SHE is only looking out for herself. I'm not "dupping" anyone, UofA is, I tell ppl the markets flooded. I am also only 10yrs in and early 30s, so no. What about you exp?

This issue actually has more than 2 sides.

I used to point fingers a lot, and yes, I was pointing them at fast track schools and their grads. I have also blamed dentists, and still do to a degree. I have been incensed at the CDHA and the former ADHA. I have considered the role of the Canadian accreditation process and wondered if those that developed the board exams made them too easy. I have even blamed female-dominated professions for their weakness. Eventually, I started to understand that the issues are too complicated to pinpoint one person or group to blame. Maybe it is a lack of education but hygienists have a hard time taking a giant step back in order to gain some perspective on the current crisis. Blaming each other is a normal thing to do when we do not understand why something is happening. No one is perfect. I think what some hygienists have chosen to do is warn those interested in the field that there are problems and that change has happened...to have huge loan debt and then no employment or be forced to work in an abusive situation is not good. If we want to change the situation, we will not do it by blaming each other. We will have to focus on how this problem impacts us and our patients. Has it impacted standards of care, created bad working conditions, etc.? Any hygienist who has graduated, passed their boards, and is in good standing with their regulatory body is an ally, not an enemy.

I completely agree with you still, I simply am not the type of person who will sit back and let people get away with saying ridiculous things, blaming other groups etc. My "blaming" was to bring to the table the fact that there is more to it than that, she generalized all new grads of these schools as having basically no skills and were insulting them. Its simply shock value and a usage of one example that I know would hit close to home for her. As for my opinion of her, I stand by it. I believe she as a person is ignorant. That is my opinion, based on my belief system of those who create stereotypes. As far as the larger issue is concerned I agree with you. But I wont ever not stand up for what I believe in, and I wasn't going to let her get away with such ridiculous commentary when if you read this entire forum, half of what she states if 100% lies.

Anon in Langley, British Columbia said: I completely agree with you still, I simply am not the type of person who will sit back and let people get away with saying ridiculous things, blaming other groups etc. My "blaming" was to bring to the table the fact that there is more to it than that, she generalized all new grads of these schools as having basically no skills and were insulting them. Its simply shock value and a usage of one example that I know would hit close to home for her. As for my opinion of her, I stand by it. I believe she as a person is ignorant. That is my opinion, based on my belief system of those who create stereotypes. As far as the larger issue is concerned I agree with you. But I wont ever not stand up for what I believe in, and I wasn't going to let her get away with such ridiculous commentary when if you read this entire forum, half of what she states if 100% lies.

I understand your motive, but the post you chose to highlight was an old post. I haven't seen this person on here in months. Furthermore, you are in denial that you do not stereotype people. Anyone who name-calls another hygienist on here is no saint themselves. You may want to take a look in the mirror. We often react most stronly to those that reflect parts of ourselves that we don't want to admit are there. This comes from my own personal experience, and not a textbook or therapist.

I have enjoyed the debate with you. Take your passion and use it constructively ANON, you are young and able. Your voice needs to be heard outside of this forum. Don`t wait until you are washed up and jaded like me :)

754Anon, I do know that for a fact, since I work in NH, that as far as you call it "a conspiracy theory" , that many Dr.'s PAID into programs to promote DH as a great field to train in to: bring the cost down of paying RDH's. I have never asked for more than what is fair in the economy, but in the case of NH and states nearby, this is what HAS happened. You did choose to address my posts, but, are set in your position, and that's great for you, but you still also said, you are not giving up your job to a younger RDH. I feel, that everyone on here speaks to their experiences. I have been in this field alot longer than you and in a different area, so work availibility and hourly wage may be different from what is in your area. But, the situation , still is, oversaturation...no cutting back on the school's part to possibly help those in the market now. Do YOU think it fair of the govt/bls/online articles and those fortunate enough to find the great /decent employers to not speak? Vast experiences....P.S. I find that the majority of those coming into the field now and who are in the field now want, private practice...is that what you are in ? If so, do you think , whether or not you are happy at that practice you will leave in the near future for cont. ed and be in administration or working in welfare areas ? your answer? ....different experiences for all, but the majority, doesn't like the present/future situation that continues : pay, hours that are regular? Med/dent? Do you have these? Any offices , maybe yours, that might be in need of additional RDH's or offices you know of...this would be helpful , if you would like to let others find gainful employment. Try to be polite on your part too, in regard to putting down what you do not agree with, since you circumstances are good. VET

I understand why everyone is angry about the job profession going down; lack of jobs and decreased wages is not a good situation for any dental hygienist. I personally went to a "quickie" Ontario dental school. The admission process was difficult and many who applied were not accepted. The school was intense, the first semester (6 months) there was 12 courses, the second semester 10 courses, and the third 10 courses. The school was a fast track school because we did double the course load in half the time. It makes sense doesn't it? We started hands on clinic in the first week. There were no summer, christmas or reading breaks. It was straight forward hard work for 18 months. Then there was the national exam, which was a piece of cake. This is the reality of MY school. Not all private dental colleges are the same. Mine was accredited but many are not. If people want to trash private schools and "quickie" hygienists be my guest, but at least know the truth. It wasn't all cupcakes and rainbows. I currently am working full time and I make good money. My dentist is hard to please and expects the best out of his employees if I wasn't a great dental hygienist I wouldn't be employed.

@rdh in Prince George
I have no idea about the jobs in your area. Im in an area of oversaturation and didnt really realize it till much later. Ive come across many great hygienist and they dont have jobs,... its as if they worked for a few years then the dentist becomes fickle and they are unemployed for months, years,or temping around offices because its the only choice. Dont stop sending out your resume. I know you worked very hard to get where your at and I only wish you the best. =).

I understand that some of you do not have faith in the 18 month program that many hygienists are graduating from. I have been a Dental Assistant for 12 years and have an above average IQ when it comes to the dental field. I have recently gone back to school for dental hygiene at a very good private dental college where there were small classroooms and the majority of the students were mature students who are mothers and have been full time workers of another profession and have decided to change their career, or many of them have previously been dental assistants like myself. I believe I have gotten a Class A education! In addition I have met some of the students who are much less qualified or mature that have come directly from a community college which technically in Ontario has been a 2 year caurse, in which with vacation and summer months excluded is barely equal to a 16 month program in reality...just spread out over 2 years.
I do agree that there are many private schools out there that are passing students through too quickly and in too high of a quantity. Some of them are taking classes of up to 50 students for each cohort and this number is too high and I am not sure what kind of education can be offered to a group and turnover this massive.
What I am trying to say is that not all private colleges are the same and the need for a cap on class sizes and stronger regulation on meeting requirments is what is needed. I know that many would like to see them shut down, but it is possible for some of these schools to offer the right education to those who are capable, but do not have the means to join a community college.

I would also like to add that it is the person who can do the job right and not where they have graduated from. A bad hygienist can come from any educational institute! As an expericenced dental assistant I can say this because I have seen it.

Thanks

Private schools eighteen months vs. U of A program 20 months...We are really talking about a couple months (not including first year pre-reqs). I went to a private school in Ontario because my husband moved there. I could have been accepted into the U of A Dental hygiene program but decided to go to school elsewhere.
Same accreditation committee approves MOST (not all) private schools that approve University programs as well and we all take the same board exams.
I personally worked extremely hard in school and to have a bunch of hygienists write about how me and my fellow classmates being "LAZY" is appalling. This profession is about compassion. The REAL difference between the diploma programs (private vs. university) are 50 hours of clinic (give or take a few hours).
I really hope this clears up all the misunderstandings posted on this website.
I understand its difficult to see our market flooded but it is simply an insecurity with dental hygienists that have been in the profession for several years. Keep in mind this isn't the only profession where this has happened.

The problem is the volume of hygienists that can be graduated, not the intensity or duration of the various programs that are accredited. If 45 DH's graduated per annum in Alberta, on average, since about 1965 then hygienists should have stayed in demand. That is(was) one advantage of a quota program such as at the U of A (at least it used to be quota program and maybe still is).

Insecurity?

Considering the massive changes here, you could call it that, but I believe insecurity affects new grads and vets alike. Fast-track schools graduate more hygienists. They have shorter wait times to get in, typically. They encourage people to leap before they think...Is this really for me? Will I have a job when I graduate? No? Oh well, I'll just move to Alberta(or wherever) when I graduate.
Honestly, it is like comparing apples to oranges to compare what is a degree to an 18 month diploma, if not from the standpoint of courses, then to the dedication level required. It really is NOT fair that a degree hygienist must compete with a diploma grad in the first place. The whole system is flawed. Make it all the same and the problem is solved- all the misunderstandings will be gone.

I must add that the rate of pay in Calgary does not differ if you have a diploma vs. A degree. I hope to receive my degree from the u of a in may but worked for several years with a diploma. Universities do not have "wait times"
I must also add that anyone who did not attend a private school must know that the entrance exam is similar to the U of A (but not identical). Also, ALL of the students in my particular class were either dental assistants or had at least one year of university completed before getting into the program. I cannot speak for other schools.
On a more relevant note, wages in Alberta are decreasing. It is sad that dentists are "lowballing" rates and sad that hygienists are accepting. If no hygienists accept less than they're worth, this would not be happening. This unfortunately is supply and demand.

I must add that the rate of pay in Calgary does not differ if you have a diploma vs. A degree. I hope to receive my degree from the u of a in may but worked for several years with a diploma. Universities do not have "wait times"
I must also add that anyone who did not attend a private school must know that the entrance exam is similar to the U of A (but not identical). Also, ALL of the students in my particular class were either dental assistants or had at least one year of university completed before getting into the program. I cannot speak for other schools.
On a more relevant note, wages in Alberta are decreasing. It is sad that dentists are "lowballing" rates and sad that hygienists are accepting. If no hygienists accept less than they're worth, this would not be happening. This unfortunately is supply and demand.

What I meant by wait times was that if I decided tomorrow that I wanted to go to the U of A to take the Dental Hygiene 3 or 4 year program,I would have to apply, and then "wait" until the application deadline was up, "wait" to see if I got accepted and then wait again to start. It could easily take a year or more from conceptualization to my first day.

If I decided I wanted to do the DH degree completion at U of A in November 2011, I would have to apply in the summer of 2012, wait until Nov.1/12 when applications close, wait again to see if I would be accepted, and wait some more to have (some)courses released in Sept.2013. That is almost two years of waiting to simply start the 6 hygiene courses I would need. Obviously, you understand the process if you are waiting to receive your degree from U of A.

How long has it been since you applied to the U of A for degree completion? Some schools out there can really "pump them out" because they have staggered entry and low pre-reqs. How many hygienists did your school graduate annually?

If there were more jobs none of this would matter much, those with more education could go into public health, etc. Here in Alberta we graduate very few hygienists- with either 3 year diplomas or 4 year degrees. And the U of A wants to add a Master's and PhD program too.

Anon, You are rude and don't understand what I or "many others" on here have to say about the state of DH NOW. I hope that the office where you work, you are polite and sensitive, but I can't picture you in that mode. Reasonable and polite on the indeed website noted below...have you noticed it? Please try, not to diss colleagues or what their experiences are. You, are not having these experiences many are... not yet. The way you respond here, will show up in your personality at work and then you may be in the same situation of little to no steady employment. We don't need a devils advocate or troll here. Colleague? I wonder if you really are an RDH. Be civil, try it.

I would really like for you to name off these schools that you claim have really low pre req's. I would also like to know what the average graduating class size is vs entrance size.

My patients LOVE me. In fact, they refuse to see anyone else. Not that it's any of your business. I was stating my opinion along with that of many other hygienists. What I commented on was a "diss". It was blatantly obvious too be a "diss" as well so why is it I an the one who takes the heat for defending what I believe to be right vs the hyg who completely disrespected many hyg with her post? I don't need to defend myself to you, so you answer my question instead of avoid as you have and then we can move forward with this discussion instead of run around in circles.

I find this very entertaining and quite pointless, thanks for the fun read though!

I couldn't agree more!

Anon, I do not diss / put down RDH's on here; if attacked an called names I do respond to their caustic accusations. I think you have your responses to the wrong RDH. What I and "many others " on here state is the oversaturation of the field...I have never refered to length of education that some others have or the schools they attended. I and "others" are upset with the DH schools, Dr.'s who've paid into programs, false info. by non-RDH's that say it's a wonderful field, jobs are plentiful, this is not true and to say go for it, your passion and dream of becoming and RDH NOW...is not supportive and in fact it's not realistic. Schooling, the stress and $ to find little to no prospects? How many threads and recent graduates thoughts have you read here? I too have work and am fortunate to have two decent employers. Many others have spent so much to find nada. Do you think false advertisement of this field as a major is right? If so, please let us know where they can find a job, offices, towns/cities, etc...that will not keep trying out RDH's without really having a job that will last for them....or paying them at DA salary for their expertise? I believe there is competition for a position in many fields, but it has become unhealthy and backstabbing for new and older RDH's not just because of the economy.

RDH7,
A quick internet survey of the first DH program my web browser picked up yielded this result. According to the CNIH(an Ontario school) website the minimum requirements in order to apply for an admissions test to get into the hygiene program are:

Ontario Secondary School Diploma (OSSD) or equivalent
English, Grade 12 (ENG4C or equivalent with a grade of 60% or higher). If English is the second language for the applicant, TOEFL score or equivalent must be provided.
Mathematics, Grade 11 with a minimum of 60% or higher
Biology, Grade 11 (SBI3C or equivalent with a grade of 60% or higher).
Chemistry and/or Physics Grade 11 (SCH4C or equivalent with a grade of 60% or higher).
There are 3 terms only, then you are done.

To get into the U of A as per their website:"To enrol in the Dental Hygiene Diploma program, you must complete a pre-professional year before admission.The minimum requirement for admission to the Dental Hygiene Diploma Program is the satisfactory completion of *30 of transferable postsecondary work (5 full year course equivalents or 10 half year course equivalents), of which, *24 (4 full year course equivalents or 8 half year course equivalents) must be taken during one Fall/Winter academic year. (A Fall/Winter academic year is September to April inclusive)."

So, you would have to apply to a faculty, such as Arts, and meet their criteria, get a good GPA once in, and then compete for a spot in hygiene later. Or transfer from another University or college(not always easy because courses are not compatible). Once in there are 4 additional terms for the 3-year diploma and 6 more for the degree.

I do not know what the average graduating vs.application class sizes are. Why don't you do your own research on the matter?

Nice granola girl!

Hard to argue with that RDH7....

Nice granola girl!

Hard to argue with that RDH7....

Nice granola girl!

Hard to argue with that RDH7....

Nice granola girl!

Hard to argue with that RDH7....

The Schools need to accept less applicants for their programs. Also, even though we all think this is a good approach, it will not happen = schools are a business. So, the oversaturation and lower wage will continue. Reality .... Again, if you have an employer willing to help fund your DH education or have family that will hire you...go for it, if not, think of your second choice that may give you a career and regular set income/days and maybe some type of benefits. THESE = bennies, are very hard to negotiate as is wage at this point in time. If you want to take pre-req's that could be used in 5yrs. for DH IF, big IF the work availability changes, then do that: sciences: bio, chem with lab, bio chem...then you will have some courses in place. VET
I hate to see those being taken advantage of in any field, esp. OUR field.

Anon in Langley, British Columbia said: I completely agree with you still, I simply am not the type of person who will sit back and let people get away with saying ridiculous things, blaming other groups etc. My "blaming" was to bring to the table the fact that there is more to it than that, she generalized all new grads of these schools as having basically no skills and were insulting them. Its simply shock value and a usage of one example that I know would hit close to home for her. As for my opinion of her, I stand by it. I believe she as a person is ignorant. That is my opinion, based on my belief system of those who create stereotypes. As far as the larger issue is concerned I agree with you. But I wont ever not stand up for what I believe in, and I wasn't going to let her get away with such ridiculous commentary when if you read this entire forum, half of what she states if 100% lies.

YOU are targeting the WRONG person....never said what YOU are accusing me of...read back on threads.