future job outlook for Dental Hygienists in Canada

For all interested 'self educators', prospective or current students or basically anyone trying to progress and learn check this out:
www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmarshallcrotty/2011/12/21/m-i-t-game-changer-free-online-education-for-all/

We live in a competitive world in which information (its management, access to it and its interpretation)is a powerful tool/resource. As, L. Pasteur once said, 'chance favours only the mind which is prepared".
Good luck in 2012!
RDH 4 15 years

I have read many of the postings here over the last 2 1/2 years and I am quite concerned over the state of our profession. I quit reading after a while as I became quite disheartened with my chosen career and am now very concerned for my future. There are a lot of problems that I / we see with our profession, and yet it seems that nothing can REALLY be done to change it. I understand that everyone has a different opinion in what is happening, that we are the cause of our own demise, are not worth our wages, and should be thankful for whatever work we can find.

I know that this is rehashing the same old arguments, but what REALLY is the problem? What are we doing or not doing that is breaking our profession? What is it that we would like the public to REALLY know about our situation? Give me some horror stories, give some positives. Someone mentioned unions. Others have stated closing the private schools. Lower our wages. Ask more of us. Say that we are not worth what we do. Tell me that even at the end of your backbreaking, carpal tunnel, thoracic outlet syndrome days with no benefits for a measly massage and that you aren't charging enough units of scaling for the 40 - 50 minute schedule that you need to uphold, that you are still as proud, challenged, and rewarded in your career.

Tell me that going back to school for your degree is an absolute advantage. I am struggling with finding full time hours to pay the bills let alone being able to pay for school and not work full time. A while ago I posted on the CDHA website a response to someone asking about doing a degree completion or not. I, obviously, had remarks for my reasons against it considering the state of this profession and the job market after a degree completion. Very few comments came in support of what I was saying and only a few with an argument for doing it. Mostly for the reason that any education is beneficial.

I also believe in continued education but I am REALLY having difficulty in promoting the degree completion for RDHs that graduated prior to a degree or went to many of the accredited colleges throughout the country. How many hours have many of you put in searching for the research jobs out there? Has anyone taken a survey of how many instructor positions exist in Canada? Oh, I know, the education will only help to possibly propel you towards a different avenue in the health field. Please, anyone, tell me how many Hygienists have found work in healthcare other than private practice, independent practice, community health, and post secondary education. Again, someone please help me to see that I would be chosen over a Nursing graduate with a degree especially with post secondary in Administration or Public Health.

Any thought?

Hi Skeptical,

Here is a simple and practical way at looking at any investment YOU decide to do - be it education, real estate, vacation, property development, etc.

The return on investment (ROI) formula:

ROI= (Gain from investment)-(cost of investment)/(cost of investment)

In the above formula "gains from investment", refers to the proceeds obtained from selling the investment of interest. Return on investment is a very popular metric because of its versatility and simplicity. That is, if an investment does not have a positive ROI, or if there are other opportunities with a higher ROI, then the investment should be not be undertaken.

Read more: www.investopedia.com/terms/r/returnoninvestment.asp#ixzz1ibQhfjH9

I will give you my personal example: I applied to the BDSc DH Degree completion program with the initial intent of furthering my formal education in 2003. I had five years to complet it on a part time basis. During my fourth year it became clear to me that I wanted to become a teacher/educator within the DH field and I had several reasons for my desire, the most important being my enjoyment of spending time, discussing issues with students, challenging thinking and helping people. I have taken courses outside the DH Degree program that addressed adult education, PBL (problem based learning, embraced by UBC health care education system) etc. My enthusiasm and competence was recognized by dental faculty. I was given the priviledge to tutor first year dental students in a course called Professionalism and Community Service. It was one of my most rewarding experiences for eight months. I was going to keep investing myself, my money, effort, time on this path. By 2008 I had spent roughly $27,000.00 in tuition/books, lost $15,000.00 in clinical earnings in order to be in class learning or tutoring. The DH Degree program Director brought it to a halt suddenly for bias reasons. to be continued......

Con't

2008 to present my DH Degree has been put on hold/ delayed pending one grade on one assignment based on one legal contract done between me and the program director and our lawyers. You can speculate why it was necessary for faculty to have a legal contract in place. IN the past three and a half years I have spent $70,000.00 in legal and disperssment fees and hundreds of hours going over evidence. My education took an unexpected turn from higher adult education area to legal and ethical aspect of higher DH education, DH profession. I feel no personal satisfaction or reward. There is professional discontent, lack of trust and respect for DH profession.
Now, let's try to do a rough ROI calculation:

ROI (DH degree)= (zero gain in terms of $, mostly a good story)-(27,000+15,000+70,000+interest rate+moral, phychological stress)/(27,000+15,000+70,000+interest rate+moral, phychological stress)= 0-122,000.00/122,000.00. Clearly a negative number for just a lot of stress, almost 10 years lost in DH higher education, and feelings of disrespect for DH profession. In conclusion, for me it was a very poor investment. I highly recommend one look at ROI if considering DH degree or any degree. I did not calculate my continuous clinical employment since the degree was not going to add anything to it (terms of employment or employment situation)
RDH 4 15 years

RDH 4 14 yrs in Delta, British Columbia said: let's not forget our health too. I spend about $150 per month for maintenance issues - chiropractor adjustments (2)and one massage therapy. I run about 20km and swim 2k in a week. I try to do yoga and stretches as much as my time allows. I try to eat healthy and watch my weight. All these to be able to work 29 (not-guaranteed) hours per week. I also buy my own instruments (Hu- Friedy). I also bought my own chair I sit on and my own loopes. DDS did not have the budget for such luxury items. I care about the service I provide, but I also care about my own health (long term).

OMG!! Hi, I hear EXACTLY what you are saying. I have worked in 4 different offices for 7 different dentists and have experienced the exact same situations, including all of the other frustrations that come with office politics. I am tired of listening to comments made by assistants how nice it is to do so little work for so much pay and that we should be appreciative for what we have and quit complaining about our jobs. I'm tired of being told by dentists that we have created our own problem by demanding extreme salaries for our princess needs. I'm tired at the end of the day by doing the absolute best for my clients' oral health care needs and diplomatically smile when they suggest that the cost of my fees will be aiding in another tropical vacation for my family. I have begun to enlighten them on not only oral health but also about this profession. That I do not receive sick days, that I do not have a contributory benefits plan including dental care (they can't believe that I clean my own teeth), that I have to buy my own instruments, that I do not get paid if they don't show up, that I do not have breaks and that when I'm running a few minutes late it is not because I was enjoying a nice cup o' joe while flipping through the latest Cosmo.

RDH 4 15 years in Delta, British Columbia said: Con't

2008 to present my DH Degree has been put on hold/ delayed pending one grade on one assignment based on one legal contract done between me and the program director and our lawyers....
RDH 4 15 years

Did you say you got positive result from UBC on your previous post?

Dear DH in Vancouver,

I am confident in my knowledge, professionalism and the body of evidence I have to bring my case to a positive conclusion for me. Now, it is up to UBC, Faculty of Dentistry, dental hygiene faculty - program director/markers - BC judicial system, including the legal counsels on either side, the public, media, other dental hygienists, dentists, health care professionals supporting me, my friends and family from all over the world to determine when this debate will be over and how. I am proud of my conduct, integrity and knowledge. If dental hygiene faculty at UBC wishes to bring the debate in front of the public and in the court of law, I will be confident to defend my paper(s) or my academic performance, the reasons I have faught the unfairness treatment and the way I did it. I will be confident to face the DH program director and make her accountable for her professional decisions, behaviour, and role in our profession. I have given her numerous occasions to treat me objectively and fairly. Objectivity and fairness are two crucial elements of any decision making process, professional conduct and communication. If the BDSc DH program director cannot defend her conduct and decision making ability in front of her own peers, other students and public, then Dental Hygiene field will have a hard time claiming the public status of a profession. The BDSc degree program at UBC will have to find creative ways to justify its purpose at UBC, given UBC's educational mandate as a public higher education institution.
I am ready for debate with a smile on my face. As, BJCDM said: "Bring it on"!

Cheers!!!!!
RDH 4 15years

Skeptical RDH in Winnipeg, Manitoba said: I also believe in continued education but I am REALLY having difficulty in promoting the degree completion for RDHs that graduated prior to a degree or went to many of the accredited colleges throughout the country. How many hours have many of you put in searching for the research jobs out there? Has anyone taken a survey of how many instructor positions exist in Canada? Oh, I know, the education will only help to possibly propel you towards a different avenue in the health field. Please, anyone, tell me how many Hygienists have found work in healthcare other than private practice, independent practice, community health, and post secondary education. Again, someone please help me to see that I would be chosen over a Nursing graduate with a degree especially with post secondary in Administration or Public Health.

Any thought?

I have applied for a few non-traditional hygiene jobs with no luck. I also tried to get in with a dental supply company but was out-competed by a keen assistant. I've had better luck getting jobs outside of dental, through people I know. I have made way less money but am treated much better. There is far less stress too. As for the DH degree I'd do it if I wanted to become a teacher(after degree stream)or pursue a Master's. However, it is hard to figure out which fields or programs will accept a DH degree as a pre-req and allow one to be truly competitive. I have found some administrators to be unaware that DH degrees are legitimate. Due to uncertainty I likely will finish my degree in another field, even though it is much more expensive and time-consuming. The biggest obstacle I have faced is my DH education not being recognized as useful in other arenas. I think I will be better off once I don't need to put DH on my resume. I have worked in private practice, pub. health and in a perio office. It doesn't mean much to a non-dental employer it seems. Just my 2 cents.

I agree granolagirl. Hygiene doesn't seem to be recognized, well, not for much. Frankly, I'm almost apologetic when I mention my DH credentials. Few seem to take us seriously. Maybe it's because DH is too specialized. Maybe the public picks up on the dynamics in the dental office. Maybe we haven't evolved enough as a profession to be taken seriously. Lots of questions.
When I applied for the DH program many years ago, someone asked, "What's that program like? A two week course in tooth polishing?" Is that the public perception of us, only as tooth polishers?
I questioned the development of the DH degree years ago, and wondered about its usefulness outside DH. Like the diploma, it's specialized. Good for research and teaching, but those jobs are limited. Sorry, but this is just my two cents' worth.
Anyway, I congratulate you on your pursuing another career and wish you the best of luck.

exp in Massachusetts said: Hi, Do you feel that that would deter many? People will choose their career path no matter what we say.....many are doing it now in spite of what info. "reality of our field" we are giving them. Unfortunately, good advice "falls on deaf ears". Some have a "mindset" and it's the only thing they can think of pursuing....they will learn in their own time...what we have been saying is not negative, but the truth about the employment situation....many don't think of their lives down the road 30+yrs. and retirement...comfort....in their old age....we can only continue to reach maybe a few.....

No its not that.. All you sound like is a bitter old RDH. There was a reason that you became a hygienist years back. Why is that reason the wrong reason for the new generation. With your experience, you should be involving ypurself with progressing the field, not trying to shut it down. If your are not trying to benefit the profession.. please retire so someone that wants to be a hygienist has the chance to be one. I am tired of these so called experienced hygienist talking about how bad OUR profession is. We love dental hygiene like you have ALWAYS loved it.. Again,, why are you a RDH again???????????? thanks

REAL in Grovetown, Georgia said: No its not that.. All you sound like is a bitter old RDH. There was a reason that you became a hygienist years back. Why is that reason the wrong reason for the new generation. With your experience, you should be involving ypurself with progressing the field, not trying to shut it down. If your are not trying to benefit the profession.. please retire so someone that wants to be a hygienist has the chance to be one. I am tired of these so called experienced hygienist talking about how bad OUR profession is. We love dental hygiene like you have ALWAYS loved it.. Again,, why are you a RDH again???????????? thanks

Real, You sound like reality is not what you want to hear. Do you really think the schools = a business, the govt/bls = not in our field and online articles = written by people not in our field ....CARE about those wanting to go into the field ? They do not. What is your experience? Are you a student or recent grad with a regular set days/hours? Well? I am digusted at all the above I just mentioned because I am in the field. I do enjoy DH, but the information as to jobs, pay , etc. are NOT what you see. Many on hear voice their opinions and experiences...because we DO care about young people thinking all the info by those mentioned above is the WORD and TRUTH. It is not. Do you notice all "many" young students ready to come into the working world and those out recently, are having a very difficult time finding any work? FT, PT, here and there...do you think it's right that they have paid thousands of dollars for a major and not find employment in their chosen field??? I do care, apparently you have a tunnel vision as to the oversaturation of this field. I hope that you show more consideration, understanding and forethought before speaking...your attitude may make way for another to replace you at your office. Many RDH's resumes are in the drawer that YOU don't know about...or filed elsewhere.

Superfluous RDH in Ottawa, Ontario said: I agree granolagirl. Hygiene doesn't seem to be recognized, well, not for much. Frankly, I'm almost apologetic when I mention my DH credentials. Few seem to take us seriously. Maybe it's because DH is too specialized. Maybe the public picks up on the dynamics in the dental office. Maybe we haven't evolved enough as a profession to be taken seriously. Lots of questions.
When I applied for the DH program many years ago, someone asked, "What's that program like? A two week course in tooth polishing?" Is that the public perception of us, only as tooth polishers?
I questioned the development of the DH degree years ago, and wondered about its usefulness outside DH. Like the diploma, it's specialized. Good for research and teaching, but those jobs are limited. Sorry, but this is just my two cents' worth.
Anyway, I congratulate you on your pursuing another career and wish you the best of luck.

Thank you. I have considered the Bachelor of Health Sciences option at Athabasca University. It sounds less "dental" than U of Alberta's BScDH degree. I would have to apply to see how many courses I'd need to complete for a BHS degree. The Bachelor of Health Science is the favoured degree for those pusuing medicine at the U of Calgary. It should be well respected. That said, I am going to stay put for now. Another option for hygienists that is not mentioned much is respiratory therapy(3 years at SAIT). Positions also come up for sterilization monitoring through Alberta Health Services, though it requires competing with nurses and others. Both above jobs pay well and are union jobs. Social workers can also work in a hospital setting. With some retraining there are options out there.

I have seen comments after comments on this site and many others convincing me that hygiene is the worst possible career choice at this point in time and possibly for years to come. However most comments come from Ontario and the west. Can anyone tell me how the job situation is for NEWFOUNDLAND & LABRADOR? As I am from there and came here to do a dental hygiene program because there are no dental programs offered in that province. Dental hygiene is a career I have always wanted I know what the job consists of and I understand the long term effects of the repititious work. I would still love to pursue a career as a hygienist in Newfoundland. Any information would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

Curious? in Brampton, Ontario said: I have seen comments after comments on this site and many others convincing me that hygiene is the worst possible career choice at this point in time and possibly for years to come. However most comments come from Ontario and the west. Can anyone tell me how the job situation is for NEWFOUNDLAND & LABRADOR? As I am from there and came here to do a dental hygiene program because there are no dental programs offered in that province. Dental hygiene is a career I have always wanted I know what the job consists of and I understand the long term effects of the repititious work. I would still love to pursue a career as a hygienist in Newfoundland. Any information would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

Why didn't you go to Dalhousie University? Your education would have been more respected than going to Ontario. You could have done your prereqs at Memorial (great school). Dal even holds a certain number of seats for students from your province (at least it did).
You have a provincial association call them. They can help you out. BTW if you planned to go back to NF to work looking into the job market before entering a hygiene program would have been a good thing to do. Hope it works out.

RDH 4 15 years in Delta, British Columbia said: let's try to do a rough ROI calculation:

ROI (DH degree)= (zero gain in terms of $, mostly a good story)-(27,000+15,000+70,000+interest rate+moral, phychological stress)/(27,000+15,000+70,000+interest rate+moral, phychological stress)= 0-122,000.00/122,000.00. Clearly a negative number for just a lot of stress
RDH 4 15 years

-122,000.00/122,000.00 is just equal to -1... or in percentage wise -100%, no need to make it sound more complicated than it is.
you could just state that you wasted or "loss" all your money

words work well in a health care profession
numbers are better understood by an accounting profession
either way, spelling fact out as I have painfully learned, is important and that is the key message to my post
thank you for understanding!
M

If the BDSc DH program director cannot defend her conduct and decision making ability in front of her own peers, other students and public, then Dental Hygiene field will have a hard time claiming the public status of a profession. The BDSc degree program at UBC will have to find creative ways to justify its purpose at UBC, given UBC's educational mandate as a public higher education institution.
I am ready for debate with a smile on my face. As, BJCDM said: "Bring it on"!

Cheers!!!!!
RDH 4 15years

I disagree with your analysis but I do agree there are Bad Apples in every profession and you have pointed out 2 of the Nationally known Bad Apples of the Dental Hygiene (Educators)

SHAME SHAME SHAME

I disagree with your analysis but I do agree there are Bad Apples in every profession and you have pointed out 2 of the Nationally known Bad Apples of the Dental Hygiene (Educators)

SHAME SHAME SHAME
This is a quote from a written email of a seniour academic official in Faculty of Dentistry in July 2008:

"Dear Mihaela,

The URL for the Faculty's Academic Policies and Procedures for undergraduate
programs is:
secure.dentistry.ubc.ca/intranet/academicprograms/dmd/documents/2007-
08/Academic_Policy_and_Procedures.pdf; this document is available to all DMD
and DHDP students at all times. There are many other UBC Policies and
Regulations (www.students.ubc.ca/calendar/index.cfm?tree=3,0,0,0)
that are also followed by the Faculty.

As I stated when we met last week, there is no policy specifying a grade of
zero for academic misconduct. While the President's Advisory Committee (PAC)
determines discipline when a student has been found to have committed
academic misconduct, it is up to the Instructor to determine the grade,
which in the case of professional Faculties such as Medicine and Dentistry,
is confirmed by the Promotions or Academic Progress Committee."

The instructor is one of the BAD Apples in my law suit - a graduate PhD student with Faculties of Graduate Studies in UBC - able to exercise her academic freedom.

to be continued in my next post...

I disagree with your analysis but I do agree there are Bad Apples in every profession and you have pointed out 2 of the Nationally known Bad Apples of the Dental Hygiene (Educators)

SHAME SHAME SHAME

....con't:

Let's see what one of The faculties of Graduate Studies policy say:

"An instrucor cannot give a student a zero for the entire course unless the plagiarism occurs in an assignment or examination that is worth 100% of the final grade. Also, the instructor cannot 'discipline' the student with the suspention or expulsion from university. Only the President has the authority to discipline students"
My discipline for my inability to edit my assignment in four (4) days - aka technical plagiarism - was a private letter of reprimand from the President and no academic record. The letter is one of the most empowering letter I have received from an official in UBC. It also congratulates me on my honesty.

I have never realized how much power a graduate student has in UBC! Let's all follow her decisions, behaviours, thinking and ignore rules and ethical, objective, intelligent manners. What do you think?

read an article that on FEB 8th 2012 dental hygiene 18 month program school in California.... they will be closing! does this have to do with oversaturation? Hopefully! I was reading that the American Dental Hygiene Association is asking CODA to heed the outcry of oversaturation and DH schools popping up .I really hope that they listen to us whom are barely employed and not just take a check off list to these schools whom some faculties memebers havent worked(fulltime) in the private sector for years ...

DHDP in Vancouver, British Columbia said: CONGRATULATIONS TO ALL 2011 DENTAL HYGIENE UBC GRADS, GOOD LUCK IN YOUR FUTURE ENDEAVORS.

graduating class of 2011 - first UBC BDcS-DH entry to practice class - has finally received their CDHBC registration (licence to practice DH in the province of BC) in January 2012.
I am aware that this moment - finding a job and paying your tuition fees - is very hard, and I hope that the time that has passed since you graduated did not diminish your skills and or/ability to practice professionally and ethically towards your patients or colleagues.
I encourage you to stay in touch with one another, apply in person to as many offices as possible. Bring your personality, youthful passion and flexibility forward and, most of all, stay positive. These are attributes, in my opinion as your RDH peer, that will make you reach your objectives.
Dental hygienists should work with one another and not against one another. We are a large team with a broad goal: to help people. Yes, we compete for employment and a decent salary, but, remember, that behaviours and attitude that show a disingenious drive and ambition to "score" a job, will most likely be visible to any experienced employer.
Good luck!
M

Dental Hygienist in ontario should come together and do something to protect our profession. pls visit our grops facebook page
on.fb.me/xsCaKq

Spread the word! :)

gabriela in Hamilton, Ontario said: 30 yr vet, I do agree that there are too many schools spitting out too many hygienists, but some of us new grads chose this profession probably for the same reason you chose it 30 years ago. I only wrote the exam once and I passed...I also graduated class valedictorian, and I do like the profession, and I do think I am capable of caring for perio patients. don't forget you were a new grad once too. We, the new grads, are suffering the most because we spent tons of money to become professionals and now we can't get jobs

You didn't capitalize the sentence(r perio patients. don't forget you were) Perhaps those who work in the dental field are picky.
Happy trails Gabriela valedictorian.

areiella in Brantford, Ontario said: You didn't capitalize the sentence(r perio patients. don't forget you were) Perhaps those who work in the dental field are picky.
Happy trails Gabriela valedictorian.

I find it hard to sympathize with new grads. Why did you not research the job market before spending "tons" of money to become a professional. By the way, the exam is super easy and does not reflect the intense exams that other schools in Canada use to grade their students.

I'm an aspiring male dh and I have been offered a position at George Brown College, a community college, I want to pursue this career as I think I would be fitting for the work. I want to make a difference in someone's life through oral care because I honestly love the satisfaction of helping people. My questions to the forum are:
-What do you/dentist's think about male DH's (thoughts on hiring/discrimination)?
-I plan on moving from Toronto to Edmonton because I heard the job market is better than Ontario's, is this true?
-"Private college's are much easier to gain entry to, as apposed to community college's." is this statement true?
-I am hoping that George Browns reputation will land me a job as apposed to private college grads that only take 18 months of schooling whereas GBC takes 3 years. Are my thoughts misguided?

I have three male DH friends. Two of them graduated together just under 20 years ago. Both are employed full-time (5 days same dentist) and both seem to have a good foothold in the DH profession. I think they both got in when the market was still really good. The other friend graduated in 2010. Sadly, he has had a very difficult time. I think he works one day a week, and a few temping days here and there. He's even working a day as an assistant to help get by (still forced to live with his parents).

I think he feels there is a little bit of discrimination because he is male. But the bigger problem is the market is such that it's really really hard to find a full-time DH job. Most practices just hire for one, two or three days at best. This saves the dentist from feeling the need to provide full benefits and it's better in that when they have two hygienists or more, they can fill in for each other so temping agencies aren't as necessary.

I believe anyone can become whatever they choose if they are passionate about it and willing to work for it (persistence pays off), but a full-time DH job for a male will require a deep passion and extra persistence, in my opinion. If you go for it, jump in with both feet, swim hard and don't look back. Good luck!

Doug Perry
gethiredrdh.wordpress.com
www.facebook.com/LandingAGreatDentalHygieneJob

Thanks for the insight.
-I plan on moving from Toronto to Edmonton because I heard the job market is better than Ontario's, is this true?
-"Private college's are much easier to gain entry to, as apposed to community college's." is this statement true?
If anyone else can enlighten me on this.
Also, If i move from Toronto to Edmonton, will i have to be re-certified? Thanks, in advance any and all feedback is greatly appreciated. For any wondering I am 19, this will be my make it or break it on whether I decide to pursue a career as a DH or hold off school for one more year to look for another path.

I don't know much about Alberta vs Ontario--but I do know Alberta only has one DH school and that would appear to be a good area (my wife is from Calgary). Since the school is in Edmonton, I would think Calgary would have more opportunities for graduates (maybe even Lethbridge if you don't mind the wind).

I think private vs community college would be easier to get into (enrollment tends to be a little more flexible), but also usually much more expensive and that's a big factor in my mind. Not sure on certification transfers for Canada--in the US it's more regionally-based. So my wife can use hers in several neighboring states, but not the entire US.

Doug Perry
gethiredrdh.wordpress.com
www.facebook.com/LandingAGreatDentalHygieneJob

The tuition for George Brown is as follows:

Dental Hygiene
Program Code S124
$16,488.0= 2 semesters multiplied by 3 since it's a six semester-ed course= $49,464
$16,488.0 is the amount for the first two semesters and it declares on George brown's website that tuition fees are subject to change, whether it be increase or decrease of cost.
www.georgebrown.ca/Marketing/FTCal/hsci/01_Dental.pdf
Are these the number's future dental hygienist's that don't attend George brown are seeing? These number's honestly are intimidating, I don't mind paying but I want some assurance that it is not a wasted investment that will put me almost 50k in debt. Thanks in advance.

Joe, you are very young, and really need to read all the posts on most of these threads. DH is not what it was, and won't be for a very long time, if ever. All the western provinces are as saturated as Ontario because of all the PRIVATE schools. Whatever you do, do not support a private school. You WILL be discriminated against if you do. In BC most DDS will NOT hire anyone from Ontario to begin with, and certainly not if graduated from a private school. I have been a DH for 16 years, and the job opportunity for finding a good job is very scarce. It USED to be a lucrative, flexible, respected career, but has degenerated into a highly stressful sales JOB.

Please re think your goals. There are plenty of health related fields that will give you benefits, security, respect and room to grow. Understand that once you become a DH, that's it. There is no further room for expansion..you've reached the top of what DH has to offer as far as fulfillment.

As to dicrimination in being male or female, I think that's entirely up to the particular DDS. I know 3 males, and they graduated when I did, and had no problems in finding jobs after school. I don't know their situation at the moment.

Please find something else to satisfy the need to help people. You won't be doing much of that in DH. Production is the name of the game now. Dentists are small business men, and they're hurting financially currently with the market downturn. They expect you to make they money, and most don't really care all that much on whether the patient is properly looked after. $$ is always the bottom line.

GL with whatever you decide.

Thanks for sharing all of your experiences and knowledge of the job, my alternative now would be to hold off college for a year and apply for practical nursing next year, any suggestions on flourishing careers?

Thanks for sharing your past experiences, given the following I might just put college on hold for a year and apply for nursing I heard its flourishing.

Hi Joe, I think nursing is a good choice simply because of the options available once you have some experience. Plus if you want to travel in the future, there are many opportunities to do so. It would definately be my choice if I were your age and had to do it all over again.

Thanks for all your support!

I am a male RDH in Toronto. I graduated from George Brown 5 years ago. I have never had a problem finding employment until I entered the dental hygiene field. I truly love the profession, but I have had to rethink my strategy as I have not had a permanent full time job in 5 years. Right now I am working 1 day a week and working other days in another field. I will say from my personal experience in my job hunt, I have had one employer respond to me and say "no thanks" because I was male. I registered with an employment agency in Toronto that hires for dental hygienists, and the guy at the agency clearly told me he currently was trying to fill three positions, and two of the employers (dentists) specifically said, we do not want a male. I look at jobs online frequently, and I have noticed numerous ads ask for "female hygienists". From my personal experience, there is clearly discrimination in the field. This is unfair and and disheartening to know this exists in the year 2012. Most hygienists are in private practice. In all honesty, wages have decreased, there is absolutely no protection for a RDH, no benefits for the most part, and most are clearly disrespected (no offence to the good dentists who pay fairly and respect dental hygienists, I know you exist, you are just a very rare commodity). In my opinion, to create a dental hygiene union is the only way to overcome these issues. There are too many dentists who are getting away with murder. We are in a profession which needs to be in line with the times. It is time for change. As a profession we are going through a rough patch, we can only change this if we stand up for ourselves, come together as a group and demand change and the respect we deserve.

I also understand there is a lot of negativity towards students who have graduated from non accredited schools. I do not agree with having non accredited institutions and they will all be extinct soon enough. All schools regardless of what field should all be accredited or have to close. However, not all students who graduated from a non accredited school have made it all the way to becoming a registered dental hygienist. The ones who have made it, have had to prove themselves even further. Normally a graduate of an accredited school has to only write a written exam to become registered as a dental hygienist. Students who graduate from non accredited schools have to pass that same written exam, plus pass a clinical exam given by the regulatory body. These students proved themselves even more than accredited school graduates in my opinion. In my opinion, every single student who graduates from any dental hygiene program should be taking a clinical exam to prove themselves capable of holding the title of RDH. The field of dental hygiene happens in a clinical setting for the most part, I just cannot comprehend why a regulating body would not test all potential individuals (regardless of the school they attended) clinically, since they serve to protect the public interest. As far as non accredited schools go, they are closing, however, they have produced numerous RDH’s who the regulating body have tested vigorously to prove they are just as equal as students from an accredited school. In the CDHO’s eyes, anyone holding the title of RDH is competent, and all of us in the profession need to respect that fact. I know a few RDH’s who have graduated from non accredited schools and some of them I would definitely consider more competent than a few of my classmates at George Brown. There is so much bad talk about each other on here. There are many good things about the profession and we have struggled with a lot of unfairness as well.

We need to stop bickering at each other and collaborate and respect each other and unite together to plan how we want to make a positive change for the future. The CDHO only protects the public, we need a new body to protect us, a union. There has already been a group started on facebook to project interest in a possible union. I think we all need to seriously consider our futures. Check out the link, like it, share the heck out of it, let’s get this started once and for all.

on.fb.me/xsCaKq

There may be a bias against male hygienists, but because there are so few male hygienists, it is more than balanced out. I have never been discriminated against, and have taken a few jobs at different places. I think the stats are about 2 to 4 percent being male. In practice, I have had only about 4 patients out of 4000 people whom have decided to have only female RDH.

Sometimes the discrimination goes the other way - employers often think the male employee will be less likely to go on mat leave, more committed to sticking around a long time and less likely to engage in catty office politics. I have heard all of the above from various folks in the dental field. Not that I agree with them.

I am always opposed to any talk of forming a union. Unions are for non-professionals who don't have the skills to compete in the marketplace, imho.

The PDM assistant program...
I honestly don't think these assistants are properly supervised. I know of girls that are told NOT to identify themselves as an assistant prior to doing the scaling (as they are supposed to) and ones that are told to "overlook" that one area that probes deeper than they are allowed to work on. There is no follow up and no supervision.
The only thing they would be useful for is perhaps removing a bit of suprag on a child.
I don't know why assistants would want one more thing on their plate when they are already run off their feet. Is the slight increase in wage worth it? If you want to scale then go be a hygienist and earn the wage you deserve. I personally would be insulted if my employer supported it for anything more than removal of suprag off a child.
It is just another way for a dentist to save a buck. As for the office outside Sherwood Park there are plenty of hygienists now regardless of where you are located.
My two cents worth!

"I am always opposed to any talk of forming a union. Unions are for non-professionals who don't have the skills to compete in the marketplace, imho."

What about nurses, for example?

Actually, I do not believe that most nurses need to be in a union. Nor do the teachers and others who aspire to call themselves professions. Nowadays there are a lot of different kinds of nursing - some is lower skilled and must work in institutions (eg LPN) which might require union protections from massive employers who they never even meet, some is highly skilled and can go independent (eg Nurse practitioners).

Nursing is an interesting comparison. We used to be called dental nurses, and I think that would be a better title for us. Note that RNs get a lot more years of education and training than we do, yet they make the same or less than hygienists do per hour when benefits are added in. Their work is also a lot more demanding and stressful. So why would hygienists need a union if the wages are as high as a much higher trained, union-member nurse?

Wow..skrr, I don't even know where to begin. I do think nurses need to be in a union, which has done them a great service over the years. When I graduated from Dh, nurses had no place to go in BC..they were swarming down to the states where they were actually being paid a wage they could live on. That's why I didn't go into nursing.

With the work of their union, they are now paid very well, have excellent benefits and pensions. How does that even begin to compare to the dismal situation Dh is in. I wish with all my heart that I had gone into nursing..more OPTIONS,benefits, security and PENSIONS!

Comparing DHYG with nursing is ridiculous in regards to education,finance and general respect.

Again, I have to qualify your posts with the fact that you are an RDH MARRIED to a DDS and will never have to deal with what the average Dh is dealing with..job security, bullying, disrespect..You're situation is assured, and since your partner is a dentist, you have a financial future that isn't comparable to the average DHYG. To say that nursing is more demanding and stressful exposes your bias.. you"re in a catagory that most of us are NOT in. Dh is demanding and very stressful these days for most of us who are out there on our own.

I wish we could unionize. Will never happen.

Unions themselves have become a detrimental burden upon the populace. It was unions who drove up waves across California and Michigan and pushed those states into bankruptcy. It was unions who drove GM into bankruptcy, and it was government forcing massive cutbacks to the unions which saved GM in the end.

I used to belong to an auto workers union. That union allowed atrocious abuses by workers, like you would not believe. Bullying was just the start of it. The union made it possible for bullies and thieves and laggards to keep their jobs forever. I remember coming on one night and a whole team of workers working the late shift were taking magic mushrooms. Another guy stole a pair of brake disks every day for years. Several low level managers were driven to breakdowns by the union worker bullying. Two I know were found writhing on the floor having uncontrolled spasms due to the abuse of union protected workers. None were ever fired, they just put the managers on stress leave.

Hygienists get more money per hour than nurses. IN BC the average RDH wage is about 42 hr for a RDH and about 34 hr for an RN, ranges form 31 to 40 tops. The RN in a hospital gets an additional 8-10 an hour in benefits including pension, legal, etc. So about the same as an RDH, but with many years more education and training, plus a ton more stress and responsibility to justify the wage. The RDH can easily fund a retirement out of 42 per hour. Yet it is very difficult to fire a bad RN due to their union, this allows RAMPANT bad attitudes and bullying to go on in hospitals among RNs - google it.

I think if anyone outside of hygiene looked at the situation in context of the real world, there would be precious little sympathy for RDH needing a union. Many trades and professions are oversubscribed, and a significant percent will not get a job in their field because that is part of the weeding out process in the real world. Same should apply to hygiene.

Unions themselves have become a detrimental burden upon the populace. It was unions who drove up waves across California and Michigan and pushed those states into bankruptcy. It was unions who drove GM into bankruptcy, and it was government forcing massive cutbacks to the unions which saved GM in the end.

I used to belong to an auto workers union. That union allowed atroc ious abuses by workers, like you would not believe. Bullying was just the start of it. The union made it possible for bullies and thie ves and laggards to keep their jobs forever. I remember coming on one night and a whole team of workers working the late shift were taking magic mushrooms. Another guy stole a pair of brake disks every day for years. Several low level managers were driven to breakdowns by the union worker bullying. Two I know were found writhing on the floor having uncontrolled spasms due to the abuse of union protected workers. None were ever fired, they just put the managers on stress leave.

Hygienists get more money per hour than nurses. IN BC the average RDH wage is about 42 hr for a RDH and about 34 hr for an RN, ranges form 31 to 40 tops. The RN in a hospital gets an additional 8 to 10 an hour in benefits including pension, legal, etc. So about the same as an RDH, but with many years more education and training, plus a ton more stress and responsibility to justify the wage. The RDH can easily fund a retirement out of 42 per hour. Yet it is very difficult to fire a bad RN due to their union, this allows Ram pant bad attitudes and bullying to go on in hospitals among RNs, google it.

I think if anyone outside of hygiene looked at the situation in context of the real world, there would be precious little sympathy for RDH needing a union. Many trades and professions are oversubscribed, and a significant percent will not get a job in their field because that is part of the weeding out process in the real world. Same should apply to hygiene.

Hi i'm currently taking dental assisting right now and I plan to work for a bit and then do my hygiene at a community college in a few years. Will i have a better chance at getting a hygiene job with assisting experience?

Assisting will have pretty much no bearing on getting you a hygiene job. A hygienist is hired based on their attributes for doing hygiene. Most important is that you have the right attitude and skill at talking with patients, which is mostly about your inborn personality. As for clinical skills, assists know pretty much nothing about RDH work, and RDH are very lousy at assisting, but each can do their own specialty just fine. When I hire a RDH I basically ignore whether they did assisting or not. More useful extra skill to me is if they can do front desk reception also, or are good with computers.

I know people who did assisting prior to hygiene, hoping to get a job as RDH at the end in the same office. But there has to be an opening at the office when you graduate hygiene, which is highly unlikely at any one moment in time. Most offices would have an opening in hygiene maybe once a year. Hardly ever.

Only advantage to being an assistant first is it gives you an opportunity to observe the whole field of dentistry. Shows what the work is about, how to move up and get other careers in the field.

Wow... someone reported abuse in my previous post to have it taken off. Private colleges are either hating that I am pointing out fraudulent marketing in their strategy or you (jobless) hygienists are being delusional and still thinking that this profession is in demand.
Oh please, the only reason why people are motivated to get their teeth cleaned is because their insurance covers for it. Now that more and more companies/schools are reducing or even taking off dental coverage thanks to the recession, you still think we would pay $280 for half an hour of scrapping at our teeth, blasting our mouth with radiation three times (x-ray) and then getting robbed for no disterning reason?
I said it once and I'll say it again, there are more serious problems in people's lives than worry about getting their teeth cleaned professionally!

p.s: skrrrrrrr from your post "When I hire a RDH I basically ignore whether they did assisting or not", are you a dentist, wife of a dentist or owner of a dental hygiene clinic?

Economist..skrr is married to a dentist and they own at least two practices. You need to read his posts with the understanding that he has no idea what the rest of us are experiencing. He has no worries about finances, job security, respect etc. He is an employer, and holds a lot of personal power in his work situation.

waterbug100 in Nanaimo, British Columbia said: Economist..skrr is married to a dentist and they own at least two practices. You need to read his posts with the understanding that he has no idea what the rest of us are experiencing. He has no worries about finances, job security, respect etc. He is an employer, and holds a lot of personal power in his work situation.

I would respectfully disagree that dentists have "no worries about finances, job security, respect etc". Any employer, dentist or not, worries about those things more than anyone else. There have been many dentists who have had to close up shop because of some bad decisions or hard luck. The Dentist (like all employers) carries all the financial risk--he/she is the one paying all the bills, not the staff.