job market of dental hygienist

30 year vet in Edmonton, Alberta said: Skrr is a graduate from an Ontario dental hygiene school....he is also married to a dentist.......hope that gives you some perspective on 'his perspective'......

fyi, I graduated from Camosun College DH program in BC.

nojobs in Toronto, Ontario said: If you were paid 45/hr on a 90/hr billing than you are well paid.
Ontario is paid 30-35/hr per 175/200hr billing. Perhaps you can see how there is an injustice here. Ontario private school grads will be flooding BC (if they haven't already) or beware, BC has started to open up there own private schools. So in the future BC hygienists have a high probability of feeling what the Ontario grads are now experiencing.

I totally agree it is unjust. The only silver lining is that such high fees in Ontario make it viable for hygienists to set up their own independent hygiene clinics. Is that starting to happen? I've seen some doctor-owned hygiene clinics in ontario, but how about hygienist-owned clinics?

The independent clinic phenomenon might even be able to reduce some of the imbalance in the market there. Hygienists will be able to make a profit at somewhat lower fees than dentists, thus taking back some of that unjust wage differential that Ontario doctors enjoy. Hygienists could still make more than the typical $40/hr by owning their own clinics, and docs would no longer have a monopoly on a lucrative profit centre. Perhaps it's time to meet the challenge by getting down to business and not waiting for it to come to you in the form of a well-paid job?

caveat: In BC the docs killed the indy clinics with what I think is antitrust fee manipulation, so watch out.

skrrr in Victoria, British Columbia said: fyi, I graduated from Camosun College DH program in BC.

Sorry, my mistake then, I thought you said somewhere in your posts that you were in Ontario. You are working as a hygienist though right? and you are married to a dentist? Did I get that right though...?

sssskr in Victoria, British Columbia said: Alberta has fewer private schools because the docs are more well off and don't suffer as much paying 40+/hr as ON and BC.

The truth is, the talk of private schools coming started around 2002, when the shortage really started coming to a head. Wages were at mid 30s at the time and that drove more folks into considering hygiene as a career, meanwhile dentists were fuming over the high wages and the proposed 4 yr entry proposal. The private schools were not yet viable back then. If the public schools had shortened their programs to pump out more grads, the shortage would have easily been taken care of and wages would settle to a more reasonable level - thus preventing the emergence of private colleges. Face it, it is only in Canada were runaway shortages happened, and only in Canada were private colleges have tripled the number of new grads.

It is hygienists fault - theirs solely and they had the ability to prevent the problem. I commend the dentists for solving the problem once and for all, though I hope that a new equitable balance is found were most new grads get a full time job at a living wage (eg ~$30/hr).

Your posts sometimes put through many different perspectives on things.....as a dental hygienist, and then sometimes as a spouse of the dentist..... Believe me....I understand both perspectives as well....

skrrr in Victoria, British Columbia said: I totally agree it is unjust. The only silver lining is that such high fees in Ontario make it viable for hygienists to set up their own independent hygiene clinics. Is that starting to happen? I've seen some doctor-owned hygiene clinics in ontario, but how about hygienist-owned clinics?

The independent clinic phenomenon might even be able to reduce some of the imbalance in the market there. Hygienists will be able to make a profit at somewhat lower fees than dentists, thus taking back some of that unjust wage differential that Ontario doctors enjoy. Hygienists could still make more than the typical $40/hr by owning their own clinics, and docs would no longer have a monopoly on a lucrative profit centre. Perhaps it's time to meet the challenge by getting down to business and not waiting for it to come to you in the form of a well-paid job?

caveat: In BC the docs killed the indy clinics with what I think is antitrust fee manipulation, so watch out.

it is a struggle for independents. Many if not most are not turning a profit and certainly not making
40.00 per hour. The dentist owned hygiene clinics made granduer promises of opening up 50 hygiene practices, only to realized that there is very little if any profit. They ended up opening 2 and
have spent an enormous amount of advertising. Doesn't matter that the scaling fee is higher here,
it is still a struggle.

BC has it all wrong by keeping a low hygiene fee guide. They may keep the independents out, but
they are ultimattely biting their own hand by lessening the profits of the hygiene dept for Dentists
Far more DDS will exist than independent RDH's.

30 year vet in Edmonton, Alberta said: Yes...sadly it's been suggested that 'independent dental hygiene practice' is the solution...no it's NOT. We have about 11 Independent DH practices in Alberta and not many are doing 'that well'.....there will be few and far between in that regard. Our profession still, for the most part, exists within a dental team of oral health professionals----MOST of us have our jobs within private practice settings where patients get everything taken care of in 1/2/3 appointments.

What do you mean by not doing well? I know about 4 of those practices & although they are still in the growth period & in a province hit hard by a recession, people aren't going to the dentist because they have no money, they were laid off & lost their benefits, these people are HAPPY & would do it all over again. Some of these people did go overboard with equipment & high leases though. This may not be the right way to open a practice.

30 year vet in Edmonton, Alberta said: Yes...sadly it's been suggested that 'independent dental hygiene practice' is the solution...no it's NOT. We have about 11 Independent DH practices in Alberta and not many are doing 'that well'.....there will be few and far between in that regard. Our profession still, for the most part, exists within a dental team of oral health professionals----MOST of us have our jobs within private practice settings where patients get everything taken care of in 1/2/3 appointments.

There are currently 11 ALONE in the Calgary area; about 25-30 in Alberta (maybe more...) It's not fair to say that they are not "doing well"...not sure where you got this information...like any business it takes a year or two to turn a profit. We are also spending alot of our potential income on advertising to get the word out to the general public as it is on our backs to do it. CRDHA has blessed its hygienists with the same fee payment schedule as GPs, no 365 day rule, no rx for radiographs, nitrous use, local anesthetic, and now the ability to write prescriptions. Not even taking wages into consideration the job satisfaction alone makes it worth it.
Independent practice is just an option...not for everyone but it does have its rewards. My office is not directly influenced by this job saturation and wages being drivin down effect of the private-school-in -Ontario-mess but I too am concerned about it for my collegues and the respect our profession deserves.
The biggest effect on us is that we get a ton of new patients that are tired of being rushed through their appointments and having poor or inconsistent hygiene performed on them.

1RDH in Airdrie, Alberta said: There are currently 11 ALONE in the Calgary area; about 25-30 in Alberta (maybe more...) It's not fair to say that they are not "doing well"...not sure where you got this information...like any business it takes a year or two to turn a profit. We are also spending alot of our potential income on advertising to get the word out to the general public as it is on our backs to do it. CRDHA has blessed its hygienists with the same fee payment schedule as GPs, no 365 day rule, no rx for radiographs, nitrous use, local anesthetic, and now the ability to write prescriptions. Not even taking wages into consideration the job satisfaction alone makes it worth it.
Independent practice is just an option...not for everyone but it does have its rewards. My office is not directly influenced by this job saturation and wages being drivin down effect of the private-school-in -Ontario-mess but I too am concerned about it for my collegues and the respect our profession deserves.
The biggest effect on us is that we get a ton of new patients that are tired of being rushed through their appointments and having poor or inconsistent hygiene performed on them.

In regards to the extended scope of practice hygienists have here in Alberta, a friend of mine has 6 years+ experience, she administers LA, just completed the Rx course & will be embarking on the nitous course this winter. She better damn well make more money than a hygienist from Ont where they are not trained in these skills. If a dentist wants to utilize these skills, & the dentists I have worked for really appreciate my LA skills, she/he will pay fopr such skills.
I honestly feel that our profession is not on the demise. I like the fact that there are alot of new rdhs (although I agree the field is oversaturated). I have seen too much old school thinking with gross/fine scale, roots planed to the pulp & inadequate recall intervals. This type of thinking went out years ago.

LA skills are required here in BC, and really not a huge addition to our training compared to the whole of our 3 year hygiene education. I wouldn't expect to get paid that much more for it, maybe a dollar an hour more - I think it should be mandatory everywhere! LA is essential to working with so many perio cases, it is just silly to not teach it in DH school.

Just what Rx are they allowing hygienists to give out in AB? Systemic or locally-placed Antibiotics? Oral sedatives? Meds for other non-perio oral conditions? This sounds a little too much given the little education we have in pharmacology in DH school - the CE course better be VERY extensive.

Nitrous would be good for working with kids. Is it really necessary for hygiene, though?

skrrr in Victoria, British Columbia said: LA skills are required here in BC, and really not a huge addition to our training compared to the whole of our 3 year hygiene education. I wouldn't expect to get paid that much more for it, maybe a dollar an hour more - I think it should be mandatory everywhere! LA is essential to working with so many perio cases, it is just silly to not teach it in DH school.

Just what Rx are they allowing hygienists to give out in AB? Systemic or locally-placed Antibiotics? Oral sedatives? Meds for other non-perio oral conditions? This sounds a little too much given the little education we have in pharmacology in DH school - the CE course better be VERY extensive.

Nitrous would be good for working with kids. Is it really necessary for hygiene, though?

I expect to be paid more for administration of LA. After all, it is my liability. More people are going to have medical emergencies while receiving LA than not receiving it. There is alot of responibility placed on us. You are right though, LA should be taught at all schools. Once you administer it for that really jumpy patient, you realize how grateful you are to have this skill.
Rx allowed to written here in Ab are antibiotics/antimicrobials used in hygiene treatment. It's self directed & may take a year to complete. The 1st course was just completed.
Nitrous is necessary for hygiene patients who are very nervous & do not want to take an oral sedative. This would be utilized more for the extensive perio patient.

skrrr in Victoria, British Columbia said: LA skills are required here in BC, and really not a huge addition to our training compared to the whole of our 3 year hygiene education. I wouldn't expect to get paid that much more for it, maybe a dollar an hour more - I think it should be mandatory everywhere! LA is essential to working with so many perio cases, it is just silly to not teach it in DH school.

Just what Rx are they allowing hygienists to give out in AB? Systemic or locally-placed Antibiotics? Oral sedatives? Meds for other non-perio oral conditions? This sounds a little too much given the little education we have in pharmacology in DH school - the CE course better be VERY extensive.

Nitrous would be good for working with kids. Is it really necessary for hygiene, though?

What happents to the out of province RDHs who don't have LA.? I'm sure they are given a time limit to complete a recognized course, but what if they don't, & I'm sure there are some? I would hope that they would not be issued a license but can they appeal this? I can see alot of hygienists working in BC without a valid license.

smile in Calgary, Alberta said: What happents to the out of province RDHs who don't have LA.? I'm sure they are given a time limit to complete a recognized course, but what if they don't, & I'm sure there are some? I would hope that they would not be issued a license but can they appeal this? I can see alot of hygienists working in BC without a valid license.

There is a time limit, after which the college revokes their license, and informs them and their employer to cease working.

As for unlicensed hygienists, that is amazing: I would like to know of any practicing without a license. It is the duty of all of us to turn them in, and I would hesitate for less than a nanosecond to do so! It's essentially assault to practice without a license, imho.

skrrr in Victoria, British Columbia said: LA skills are required here in BC, and really not a huge addition to our training compared to the whole of our 3 year hygiene education. I wouldn't expect to get paid that much more for it, maybe a dollar an hour more - I think it should be mandatory everywhere! LA is essential to working with so many perio cases, it is just silly to not teach it in DH school.

Just what Rx are they allowing hygienists to give out in AB? Systemic or locally-placed Antibiotics? Oral sedatives? Meds for other non-perio oral conditions? This sounds a little too much given the little education we have in pharmacology in DH school - the CE course better be VERY extensive.

Nitrous would be good for working with kids. Is it really necessary for hygiene, though?

We are able to prescribe antibiotics for premed/oral infections, antimicrobials, antivirals, topical steriods for lichen planus, antifungals-basically the meds we prescribe need to be related to conditions seen in dental hygiene practice. Rest assured the course was very extensive and difficult.
We use our nitrous regularly; not just for perio patients but for anxious patients period. I am surprised how much we use it.

sssskr in Victoria, British Columbia said: one more thing regarding Alberta:

While the strategy in ON and BC by the doctors is to create private schools and more grads, the Alberta solution is to have assistants doing scaling via a 'scaling module.' That explains partly why there is less need for private schools in AB - they just have their CDA attend a short course and they have an instant 'hygienist' on staff for half the wage.

i have not yet seen any of those assistants scale yet; it was sooo hyped up but no change

skrrrrrr in Victoria, British Columbia said: 15 minutes of scaling or root planing is billed at $30 here in BC, yet the wages still shot up to $45/hr or more in Vancouver and Victoria (I was paid this much soon after graduating). On average, hygienists can barely bill $90/hr with no-shows factored in, yet they expect to continue getting 50% of gross. Methinks we are indeed overpaid based on the silly 33% rule of thumb.., but there is a LOT more to consider than that silly rule (ie other contributions to the practice, the wages of similar skilled trades with only 2-3 yrs of education, etc).

if you only bill on average $90/hr then you are not doing your job; did you gradute from ontario private school? that was numero uno; numbero duo is that the dentists in BC shot themselves in th foot by dropping the fees to prevent indep dental hyg practices; i really do not feel sorry that they don't get the $200/hr from what i bill where i only would take $50.

30 year vet in Edmonton, Alberta said: "don't fall for that"....? Do you understand what is going on....? grads are taking ANYTHING they can cause they have $38000.00 in tuition fees to pay off---they don't have a choice.... 'same thing happened with dental assisting'....? there has always been ups and downs with employment with dental assisting ....generally for 30 years, dental hygiene jobs have been abundant. WHat is happening with HYGIENE now though, is a diminishing of the education requirements, lowering of standards of educators to teach in some of these DH schools..... It used to be that DA and DH were good fields to go into, but until they clean this whole mess up (if they can), look at other professions....

i personally think it is all hygienists fault; we need to grow some proverbial balls; why not work on commission? do not give the dentist the opportunity to make money on what you do!!! the more hygienists ask for commission the more dentists will be screwed; and if everyone asks for commission then they will have to give it to you (or they will be more likely to pay you at least $50/hr and frankly for what we do we deserve more). they still have monopoly on dentistry. i just don't get it; look at physiotherapy, they get commission on what they do and they get the higher 55-65%. Hygienists are afraid to ask for %45. so to do the math if you bill $150/hr you should be getting AT LEAST $60. This will make the dentists less in control of the profession. Some hygienists thought they are more secure in their jobs because they get paid $50/hr. To be honest with you, if each individual hygienist doesn't take this in his/her own hands it will get worst for the profession (but not necesserly for the individual hygienist). As for the private schools, it is another way to make big money for the dentists that open these schools. Good for them. If they have to balls to screw another profession this bad and that profession is takingt,we deserve it.

forgive the tone and lack of consistency in writing; this was just the flow of thoughts that i had for a while; i just hope that hygienists will get this;
p.s i have not met a better professional than a hygienist from University of Alberta. U of A ROCKS.

independent in Edmonton, Alberta said: i have not yet seen any of those assistants scale yet; it was sooo hyped up but no change

I agree. With the hype of the scaling assistants, there really hasn't been that many who have taken the course actually scaling. Most dentists don't utilize them. Most of these assistants are assitants that want that one more skill. From offices that I hear who have utilized them, it doesn't work out. Probing should be done at every hygiene visit & it is not fair to the patient to have to book them back because all of a sudden, there is a 4-5 mm pocket (depending if you are in Ab or Man). I am curious about how many patients out there don't have at least 1 4mm pocket. How many people record probing measures on a yearly basis? Maybe it has been the few practices I've been in, but most of my patients have some sort of pocketing & would not be able to be seen by a pdm da. These people include smokers, diabetics, people with cardiac disease, those that don't floss, even hygienists & dentists. Remember children can have advanced form of gingivitis & perio disease as well.

this is so true!!! also from my experiance of 7 years, i have yet to see an office where they do perio exams on regular basis. I had been temping for 3 years before i stayed permanent contractor at one clinic, and all the clinics i had been to HAVE NOT done probings on regular basis, NONE. TO make the story short, i do NOt worry about scaling assistants or all these hygienists from Ontario that finish quick schools becasue they are NO competition to me. By changing the way i choose to work, it might be easy to find a position in a heart beat but when i do find one it is a quality office/clinic. And if i don't, oh well, ti will put my butt to work even harder to open my own independent dental hygiene. There are not that many hygienists out there that walk the walk.

independent in Edmonton, Alberta said: i personally think it is all hygienists fault; we need to grow some proverbial balls; why not work on commission? do not give the dentist the opportunity to make money on what you do!!! the more hygienists ask for commission the more dentists will be screwed; and if everyone asks for commission then they will have to give it to you (or they will be more likely to pay you at least $50/hr and frankly for what we do we deserve more). they still have monopoly on dentistry. i just don't get it; look at physiotherapy, they get commission on what they do and they get the higher 55-65%. Hygienists are afraid to ask for %45. so to do the math if you bill $150/hr you should be getting AT LEAST $60. This will make the dentists less in control of the profession. Some hygienists thought they are more secure in their jobs because they get paid $50/hr. To be honest with you, if each individual hygienist doesn't take this in his/her own hands it will get worst for the profession (but not necesserly for the individual hygienist). As for the private schools, it is another way to make big money for the dentists that open these schools. Good for them. If they have to balls to screw another profession this bad and that profession is takingt,we deserve it.

All fine and dandy in a world where one can afford to hold out.
Supply and demand doesn't allow room for this. If you have
exceptional skills and currently have a wonderful employer DDS, then you will be fine until you leave that office. Most DDS would
rather take the gamble on a lower paid hygienist. Most of the
1000 new grads that have enormous debt will not hold out for
commission. A union would be better served in this case. Dont hold your breath on hygienists standing firm on pay, it will never
happen and only get worse.

nojobs in Toronto, Ontario said: All fine and dandy in a world where one can afford to hold out.
Supply and demand doesn't allow room for this. If you have
exceptional skills and currently have a wonderful employer DDS, then you will be fine until you leave that office. Most DDS would
rather take the gamble on a lower paid hygienist. Most of the
1000 new grads that have enormous debt will not hold out for
commission. A union would be better served in this case. Dont hold your breath on hygienists standing firm on pay, it will never
happen and only get worse.

The truth of the matter is we as hygienists in provinces where we can self-initiate/have independent practices do have some control over our ability to work. I know of a handful of hygienists who do sportsguards &/or bleaching on the side. This is in our scope of practice. It costs about $1000 to start up & pays for itself from what I am told. It does require legwork though & it helps if you know people who can promote you like your husband & his hockey team, your child's martial arts club.... This is a start. Why should a dentist get a cut in this if this is purely your work?? On average dental offices charge $325 give or take for bleaching. This is a nice little chunk of change & maybe more than some hygienists make in a day. I'm unsure of sportsguards though but this is the time of the year to promote them. I'm looking into doing this too.

also, i know hygienists from the private schools that do charge a good commission rate too. And trust me FEAR can be very debilitating if you let it. As I said before, it is hard to find a good clinic but you get what you ask for and if all ofus stick together then the DDS that are cheap (and usually they are also unethical too) will loose at the end since no one will put up with it. But it all depends on individuals and on the whole; i know from my experiance. I'd rather work part time, make more money than a full time hygienist and in my spare time work on my private practice. i also know that not many hyg stick together and when a person tries to help, they want you to fail rather then take advice. I know its hard but it's worth it

nojobs in Toronto, Ontario said: All fine and dandy in a world where one can afford to hold out.
Supply and demand doesn't allow room for this. If you have
exceptional skills and currently have a wonderful employer DDS, then you will be fine until you leave that office. Most DDS would
rather take the gamble on a lower paid hygienist. Most of the
1000 new grads that have enormous debt will not hold out for
commission. A union would be better served in this case. Dont hold your breath on hygienists standing firm on pay, it will never
happen and only get worse.

well then as a profession we totally like to fail but as individuals it's up to us.

skrrr in Victoria, British Columbia said: I totally agree it is unjust. The only silver lining is that such high fees in Ontario make it viable for hygienists to set up their own independent hygiene clinics. Is that starting to happen? I've seen some doctor-owned hygiene clinics in ontario, but how about hygienist-owned clinics?

The independent clinic phenomenon might even be able to reduce some of the imbalance in the market there. Hygienists will be able to make a profit at somewhat lower fees than dentists, thus taking back some of that unjust wage differential that Ontario doctors enjoy. Hygienists could still make more than the typical $40/hr by owning their own clinics, and docs would no longer have a monopoly on a lucrative profit centre. Perhaps it's time to meet the challenge by getting down to business and not waiting for it to come to you in the form of a well-paid job?

caveat: In BC the docs killed the indy clinics with what I think is antitrust fee manipulation, so watch out.

hopefully DDS in ALberta are not stupid enough to do the same; they would loose a lot of money but there would be still enough profit for ind DH clinic (overheads not that huge if done right)

1RDH in Airdrie, Alberta said: There are currently 11 ALONE in the Calgary area; about 25-30 in Alberta (maybe more...) It's not fair to say that they are not "doing well"...not sure where you got this information...like any business it takes a year or two to turn a profit. We are also spending alot of our potential income on advertising to get the word out to the general public as it is on our backs to do it. CRDHA has blessed its hygienists with the same fee payment schedule as GPs, no 365 day rule, no rx for radiographs, nitrous use, local anesthetic, and now the ability to write prescriptions. Not even taking wages into consideration the job satisfaction alone makes it worth it.
Independent practice is just an option...not for everyone but it does have its rewards. My office is not directly influenced by this job saturation and wages being drivin down effect of the private-school-in -Ontario-mess but I too am concerned about it for my collegues and the respect our profession deserves.
The biggest effect on us is that we get a ton of new patients that are tired of being rushed through their appointments and having poor or inconsistent hygiene performed on them.

where are you located? I'd like to talk to you about IND DH Practice.

independent in Edmonton, Alberta said: also, i know hygienists from the private schools that do charge a good commission rate too. And trust me FEAR can be very debilitating if you let it. As I said before, it is hard to find a good clinic but you get what you ask for and if all ofus stick together then the DDS that are cheap (and usually they are also unethical too) will loose at the end since no one will put up with it. But it all depends on individuals and on the whole; i know from my experiance. I'd rather work part time, make more money than a full time hygienist and in my spare time work on my private practice. i also know that not many hyg stick together and when a person tries to help, they want you to fail rather then take advice. I know its hard but it's worth it

Sure it is worth it. A union would have to be in place though in
order for this to be truly accomplished. While I agree and admire
what you say, all hygienists wont comply. I dont ever seeing them
comply unless a union is formed. Can you honestly see this happening without a union?

independent in Edmonton, Alberta said: where are you located? I'd like to talk to you about IND DH Practice.

Email me at can722OO32OO3@yahoo.com
(the O's are zeros)