Any work in Calgary?

skrrr in Saanichton, British Columbia said: I'd like to see what a person outside of the dental world thinks of getting $47/hr x 2000 hrs = $94K/yr with a 2-3 yrs of community college education. That is probably more than the average new grad associate dentist makes out here, with $300K+ debt and 8+ years university education. New bachelor grads outside dentistry can only dream of making $60K/yr, and it will take many years for them to get there. Someone making $47 an hour is living in a glass house while they're throw the stones at the dentists. They are an easy target for government regulators and declining public opinion. 'Don't take from us, we're only making $94K/yr.' Ask an economist what reality is in this country. And you wonder where the pressure came to open more schools? You don't think such wages would generate a stampede of folks trying to a a piece of it?

Want to talk about declining public opinion?
Dentists are rated second after lawyers in terms of mistrust and poor public opinion.
Guess my wages are justified with 7 years of university education.

skrrr in Saanichton, British Columbia said: I'd like to see what a person outside of the dental world thinks of getting $47/hr x 2000 hrs = $94K/yr with a 2-3 yrs of community college education. That is probably more than the average new grad associate dentist makes out here, with $300K+ debt and 8+ years university education. New bachelor grads outside dentistry can only dream of making $60K/yr, and it will take many years for them to get there. Someone making $47 an hour is living in a glass house while they're throw the stones at the dentists. They are an easy target for government regulators and declining public opinion. 'Don't take from us, we're only making $94K/yr.' Ask an economist what reality is in this country. And you wonder where the pressure came to open more schools? You don't think such wages would generate a stampede of folks trying to a a piece of it?

I really think you're missing the point here. The point is for years the wages were around the 50 plus mark. Now all of a sudden thats not feaseable anymore? It's ok for the cost of a scaling unit to go up but hey lets drop the hygienist's wage?
No one is disputing that its a good wage blah blah blah BUT I am disputing the WAGE DROP. 55 to 47 is a 15% wage decrease which is a lot. And don't go comparing dental fields to other fields. Dentistry is and will continue to be a high income generating field, more so then other occupations. I have YET to see a poor struggling dentist. The reason hygienists are paid well is because they generate a lot of income for the practices.
And whats this about "declining public opinion"???

Dentists were forced to be 'price takers' by the market conditions - a severe shortage of hygienists nationwide. Fifty-plus per hour was not reasonable nor sustainable. Nobody's wage is being cut 15%, either. It is just about impossible to reduce anyone's hourly rate without firing them. This is only a drop in what job offers are at, which is normal in an economic decline combined with disappearance of the shortage. Now hygienists are forced to be 'price takers' for a change - it is the economic pendulum in action. It hurt dentists for years, and now it is affecting hygienists. You can't use the economic system to obtain sky high wages, and then complain about dentists using the exact same system the way you did. My sympathy goes only so far.

I think the private school situation is out of control and killing skill levels. I think that is unfair to hygienists, and should be brought under control. I also think paying hygienists over $80k/yr is unfair to dentists, and has been for more than a decade. Somehow a fair medium should be found, and the free market may achieve that eventually.

hygienist in Calgary, Alberta said:
And whats this about "declining public opinion"???

Politicians are driven by public opinion. If you go to the government to ask for things to be changed to improve your income, the public opinion will have an influence over what happens. I've seen a few reports in the media of nurses and teachers complaining about being paid so much less than dental hygienists, for example. Might not be on most folks radar, but politicians are acutely aware of exactly what they can and cannot get away with (eg allowing public DH schools, allowing scaling modules for DAs, indy hygiene, etc) by public opinion.

skrrr in Saanichton, British Columbia said: Dentists were forced to be 'price takers' by the market conditions - a severe shortage of hygienists nationwide. Fifty-plus per hour was not reasonable nor sustainable. Nobody's wage is being cut 15%, either. It is just about impossible to reduce anyone's hourly rate without firing them. This is only a drop in what job offers are at, which is normal in an economic decline combined with disappearance of the shortage. Now hygienists are forced to be 'price takers' for a change - it is the economic pendulum in action. It hurt dentists for years, and now it is affecting hygienists. You can't use the economic system to obtain sky high wages, and then complain about dentists using the exact same system the way you did. My sympathy goes only so far.

I think the private school situation is out of control and killing skill levels. I think that is unfair to hygienists, and should be brought under control. I also think paying hygienists over $80k/yr is unfair to dentists, and has been for more than a decade. Somehow a fair medium should be found, and the free market may achieve that eventually.

Tell me skrrr, Have both your wife's practices decreased the O.M., D.A.'s, O. Admin's wages too? Or are the R.D.H.'s wage the only one decreasing? If this is so at your wife's practices...why? Also, what justifies the D.A.'s, etc. wages going down? If the Dr.'s pt. cancels, does the D.A. clock out?

Skrrr, Does your wife's prac. give raises to all employees? Do you find the D.A.'s wage also going down...and what would justify it? If the cost of living is higher than in the states doesn't it justify a higher wage too? Is your payscale for employee's about in the same range as other Dr.'s practicing in BC?

No wage cuts to anyone, ever. Raises typically 3-5% per annum, plus bonuses, CE, trip to the conferences, and free dental for their families. One even gets her gym membership paid by us at a posh club. Yes, our hourly rates are currently about bang on the same as per the wage survey for BC. Various CDAs wage range spread is 9 dollars from entry level to most experienced in our offices, based on skill level and experience level.

skrrr in Saanichton, British Columbia said: Dentists were forced to be 'price takers' by the market conditions - a severe shortage of hygienists nationwide. Fifty-plus per hour was not reasonable nor sustainable. Nobody's wage is being cut 15%, either. It is just about impossible to reduce anyone's hourly rate without firing them. This is only a drop in what job offers are at, which is normal in an economic decline combined with disappearance of the shortage. Now hygienists are forced to be 'price takers' for a change - it is the economic pendulum in action. It hurt dentists for years, and now it is affecting hygienists. You can't use the economic system to obtain sky high wages, and then complain about dentists using the exact same system the way you did. My sympathy goes only so far.

I think the private school situation is out of control and killing skill levels. I think that is unfair to hygienists, and should be brought under control. I also think paying hygienists over $80k/yr is unfair to dentists, and has been for more than a decade. Somehow a fair medium should be found, and the free market may achieve that eventually.

Fifty-plus per hour was not reasonable nor sustainable.????? Since when? Thats been the going rate for hygienists in Alberta for years and I didn't see any dentists going out of business for it. For your information, hygienists in calgary continue to make 50+ an hour. THAT has not changed. The STARTING RATE for new hygienists has. Has there been a mass shut down of offices because of it? NO didn't think so. So your statement about it being not being "sustainable" is something you pulled out of the air.
Really save your "waa waa the poor dentists" arguement. They are not suffering nor have they suffered in the past because of paying their hygienists 50+ an hour. In fact they're raking in the dough. And part of that dough is because of what the HYGIENIST brings in.

Ok I was so annoyed by skrrr's comments that I had forgotten what it was I initially wanted to say. I have been a hygienist for quite a few years. Alberta is known for paying its hygienists more then the other provinces- no arguement there. There was a shortage of hygienists for a long time and the average hourly rate was from 52-55/hr for a hygienist with some experience. In the last 2-3 years there has been about 30 (if not more) hygiene schools started in Ontario and many jumped at the opportunity to make good money after very little schooling. Fair enough. However it did not stop there. Because I have worked in quite a few offices I saw what these new Ontario hygienists were asking for. The average was 65.00/hr with NO experience. And guess what? they got it because there weren't enough hygienists. Some even had 'weekend rates' of 75.00/hr which made me want to ask "are you a hygienist or a hooker?" This in turn led to more and more girls applying into these colleges. This is the increase that had dentists angry and rightfully so. Most of us would never take a huge cut in pay so why should dentists be subjected overnight to such a huge increase in a dental hygienist's rates? It is NOT the 50-55/hr that skrrr claims is "unsustainable". It was the greed of a few new grads who took it upon themselves to ask for more. Now those same girls are crying for work and accepting much lower wages which is inevitably going to hurt us all. They shot themselves in the foot and we are feeling the effects.
In closing I'd like to give a word of caution to dental hygienists planning to move to Alberta to secure their pots of gold. The market is saturated. There are virtually no jobs for hygienists here. If you insist on moving, make sure you have a job BEFORE you move because there are no guarntees once you get here.

Well I don't dentists should be whining about it, since it is only the reality of business and the free market. In fact I think it is kind of cool and great for those hygienists to be the highest paid hygienists on earth.

There are other economic factors that will come into play in coming years. Managed care and megacorporate dentistry is devastating the profession in the US. Managed care has meant the docs can only charge $80 for a recall appointment (what they call a 'prophy'). The Ins companies and those who pay them continue to put pressure on the industry to cave into managed care and chain dental corporations. It is already starting to happen in Vancouver, and it threatens to reduce all dental fees by increased competition. Plenty of dentists in the US are indeed going bankrupt or closing shop to return to associateships because of this. Many docs in BC are already struggling to afford the cost of living in the lower mainland. I met one guy with 2 practices in rural BC making only 50K/yr (we were looking into buying it, but of course did not). What happens in the US eventually trickles north.

If your in sales and you bring in x amount of dollars, your wage/commission is usually based on what you bring in.
The scaling codes for the rdh in BC is lower than Alberta and Ontario. Ontario hygienist are paid the lowest percentage based
on what they bring into the office. With 1000 grads per year, all
provinces will be faced with oversupply.

Why is there a debate with regards to the same payscale across Canada
when the fee guide varies? Shouldn't the focus be on comparison
of pay per province now and in the future. Shouldn't we allow for
an increase with the cost of living?? Only to be faced by an oversupply? Is the fee guide for the US the same in each state?
Why are they paying more in California for an RDH wage?

ssssskr in Saanichton, British Columbia said: Well I don't dentists should be whining about it, since it is only the reality of business and the free market. In fact I think it is kind of cool and great for those hygienists to be the highest paid hygienists on earth.

There are other economic factors that will come into play in coming years. Managed care and megacorporate dentistry is devastating the profession in the US. Managed care has meant the docs can only charge $80 for a recall appointment (what they call a 'prophy'). The Ins companies and those who pay them continue to put pressure on the industry to cave into managed care and chain dental corporations. It is already starting to happen in Vancouver, and it threatens to reduce all dental fees by increased competition. Plenty of dentists in the US are indeed going bankrupt or closing shop to return to associateships because of this. Many docs in BC are already struggling to afford the cost of living in the lower mainland. I met one guy with 2 practices in rural BC making only 50K/yr (we were looking into buying it, but of course did not). What happens in the US eventually trickles north.

Any dentist who owns two practices and is making 50K a year needs some serious business help.
For the dentists hurting financially in the United States, it is a direct result of the sub prime credit crisis that resulted in many people losing their jobs and houses. They simply cannot afford to go to the dentist.

I am a new grad and I have had my license to work since June. I am still unemployed. There are no job postings for DH anywhere! I have had only 2 calls for temping last month. I am very frustrated bc I don't know what to do if this is how it is going to look in the next few months! I currently have a part time job at the superstore to try and make up for the time I have free. Is anyone having problems looking for permanent work as a DH?

RDH in Calgary, Alberta said: I am a new grad and I have had my license to work since June. I am still unemployed. There are no job postings for DH anywhere! I have had only 2 calls for temping last month. I am very frustrated bc I don't know what to do if this is how it is going to look in the next few months! I currently have a part time job at the superstore to try and make up for the time I have free. Is anyone having problems looking for permanent work as a DH?

Thats the unfortunate reality of DH today, even in AB.
Our office has had 3 calls already this week from hygienists looking for work.
Good luck.

RDH in Calgary, Alberta said: I am a new grad and I have had my license to work since June. I am still unemployed. There are no job postings for DH anywhere! I have had only 2 calls for temping last month. I am very frustrated bc I don't know what to do if this is how it is going to look in the next few months! I currently have a part time job at the superstore to try and make up for the time I have free. Is anyone having problems looking for permanent work as a DH?

yes! i can't get anything...and i don't see a light at the end of this tunnel...
i don't know what to do... so your not alone:(

RDH in Calgary, Alberta said: I am a new grad and I have had my license to work since June. I am still unemployed. There are no job postings for DH anywhere! I have had only 2 calls for temping last month. I am very frustrated bc I don't know what to do if this is how it is going to look in the next few months! I currently have a part time job at the superstore to try and make up for the time I have free. Is anyone having problems looking for permanent work as a DH?

I was born and raised in Calgary and was a dental assistant before I went on to graduate this spring as a DH from Ontario. I believe that networking with my previous offices and colleagues help. If you aren't originally from around here it may be difficult to have someone "introduce" you into the market or network. We've already had so many DHs move here from other provinces. The DH job market is too much supply for so little demand nowadays. Good luck. The Territories pay just about the same according the latest survey on wage and provinces/ territories of Canada its just that no one wants to go live up there, really.

dentist is amused in Calgary, Alberta said: This conversation is quite interesting. Greedy dentists? Do you think hygiene salaries increasing by 10%/annum qualifies for the description of greedy? When dentist continue to increase hygiene fees (to cover salary increases), you eventually price the service out of the reach of most patients. Think about that. I would love nothing more than to see a drastic decrease in hygienist salaries. I could then pass the savings along to patients and ensure this service is available to more people.

The only way out of this ridiculous situation is for hygiene to completely separate from dentistry. There is no reason on earth for a patient to see a dentist prior to getting their teeth cleaned. When one profession employs and thus controls another it can only lead to conflict and it is the patient ultimatly that loses. The most cost effective way to increase public access to oral health care is for hygiene to operate separately from dentistry.

dentist is amused in Calgary, Alberta said: This conversation is quite interesting. Greedy dentists? Do you think hygiene salaries increasing by 10%/annum qualifies for the description of greedy? When dentist continue to increase hygiene fees (to cover salary increases), you eventually price the service out of the reach of most patients. Think about that. I would love nothing more than to see a drastic decrease in hygienist salaries. I could then pass the savings along to patients and ensure this service is available to more people.

Yeah, you could advertise that due to cutting the salary of your most valued employee, the patients can now get a discount on their cleaning! Why don't you post along with that your total gross production, net production, wages, operating and supply costs, and your salary for the year? Should make your patients very happy to know just how much you are "saving" them!

DDS are greedy. You don't here of Drs talking or holding meetings about production. They are about pt care and alot of Drs are in debt up to their eye balls from student loans. I had a DDS break down tx plans every day with me so I could milk the pt for tx and get them to commit to it. I got a flat hourly rate and no bonuses. I don't want to know all the bills in the office. Yeah I want to get paid. I went to school so I can earn a good pay and I don't work for free. If I wanted to know the overhead cost of everything I would have been a DDS and ran my own practice.

hyg sucks in Richmond, Virginia said: DDS are greedy. You don't here of Drs talking or holding meetings about production. They are about pt care and alot of Drs are in debt up to their eye balls from student loans. I had a DDS break down tx plans every day with me so I could milk the pt for tx and get them to commit to it. I got a flat hourly rate and no bonuses. I don't want to know all the bills in the office. Yeah I want to get paid. I went to school so I can earn a good pay and I don't work for free. If I wanted to know the overhead cost of everything I would have been a DDS and ran my own practice.

You sound unhappy and stressed where you're working. I wonder if your employer is a new grad with heaps of debt. That would make his overly aggressive treatment planning understandable though not right. It's been my experience that dds' do talk and think A LOT about production(especially ours!) but they have overhead on their minds 24/7 I'll bet. Some dentists are greedy and when the market is overly crowded with workers wages drop. That is true no matter what field you're looking at. That is the nature of a free market. I don't know the laws regarding independent practice where you are but it is the only road to self determination. There are no easy answers here. At least you're working. Hang in there and maybe when your boss is a bit more solvent he won't push so hard...or maybe he'll just be a richer jerk and eventually you too can open your own office. Good luck.

hyg sucks in Richmond, Virginia said: DDS are greedy. You don't here of Drs talking or holding meetings about production. They are about pt care and alot of Drs are in debt up to their eye balls from student loans. I had a DDS break down tx plans every day with me so I could milk the pt for tx and get them to commit to it. I got a flat hourly rate and no bonuses. I don't want to know all the bills in the office. Yeah I want to get paid. I went to school so I can earn a good pay and I don't work for free. If I wanted to know the overhead cost of everything I would have been a DDS and ran my own practice.

Several of the docs I have worked for had monthly meetings with totals of production for both hygiene and restorative. I think it's a good idea to remind staff once in awhile how much it takes to run the office and we all know if we want to get paid we have to make money, just like any other business. But some are overkill to the point you quit trying because no matter what you do it's never enough. Our pay stays the same or goes down while many docs buy new cars, close the office to take spur of the moment vacations, then return and become a slave driver because "we need the money". That's what really bothers me. I had to do without any pay while doc was on a holiday, then I'm double booked with no lunch, doing 2 days worth of hygiene for 1 days pay. Then doc's making bank.

In a free market, 'greed is good.' That doesn't mean it morally good, but it is the American Way. Work hard, observe how others make the big money, then do it yourself: go to dental school and open a practice if you want to do well financially as well as in terms of self-determination. I don't believe in not taking lunch hour nor abusing workers' rights, but I do believe if I am being paid for an hour, I should be 100% working hard for my boss, doing as much production as reasonably possible.

But are we really as productive as we should be? After having worked for 8 years in a GM autoplant, I am amazed at the wasted time and slow pace in dental hygiene - production could be A LOT more efficient, but then doing so would kind of kill the whole 'relaxing chairside experience' for patients. Some practices have gone to assisted hygiene, but it makes me wonder if patients feel like their just a widget on an assembly line. So most of us work more slowly, with downtime between prophies, and thus I find doing hygiene is just real easy and relaxing. Forgive me for saying it, but some folks in this profession just don't know how easy they have it, and should not be surprised when the doc wants you to work almost as hard as they do.

('their' - should be 'they're just a widget')

skrrrrrr in Victoria, British Columbia said: In a free market, 'greed is good.' That doesn't mean it morally good, but it is the American Way. Work hard, observe how others make the big money, then do it yourself: go to dental school and open a practice if you want to do well financially as well as in terms of self-determination. I don't believe in not taking lunch hour nor abusing workers' rights, but I do believe if I am being paid for an hour, I should be 100% working hard for my boss, doing as much production as reasonably possible.

But are we really as productive as we should be? After having worked for 8 years in a GM autoplant, I am amazed at the wasted time and slow pace in dental hygiene - production could be A LOT more efficient, but then doing so would kind of kill the whole 'relaxing chairside experience' for patients. Some practices have gone to assisted hygiene, but it makes me wonder if patients feel like their just a widget on an assembly line. So most of us work more slowly, with downtime between prophies, and thus I find doing hygiene is just real easy and relaxing. Forgive me for saying it, but some folks in this profession just don't know how easy they have it, and should not be surprised when the doc wants you to work almost as hard as they do.

It is NOT relaxing in today's offices...Many pt.'s who need and would have a better oral condition=healthy, do not always listen, even when they are moderately bleeding, mod. calculus....due to "my
ins. only pays for 2 prophy's a yr." Pt.'s come 5-10min's late, your 3-4mr pt. refuses to be on this recall....and considers it "only a cleaning" , and the Dr. is doing an exam as if he were the clinical instructor back in school...oh, and then there is the conversation....stay on schedule...??? I have found, and I'm sure other R.D.H.'s feel the same way; they would rather wipe down their op's, some Asst's don't see what I do ie-blood here and there, thus a pt. thinks I didn't clean my rm

exp in Massachusetts said: It is NOT relaxing in today's offices...Many pt.'s who need and would have a better oral condition=healthy, do not always listen, even when they are moderately bleeding, mod. calculus....due to "my
ins. only pays for 2 prophy's a yr." Pt.'s come 5-10min's late, your 3-4mr pt. refuses to be on this recall....and considers it "only a cleaning" , and the Dr. is doing an exam as if he were the clinical instructor back in school...oh, and then there is the conversation....stay on schedule...??? I have found, and I'm sure other R.D.H.'s feel the same way; they would rather wipe down their op's, some Asst's don't see what I do ie-blood here and there, thus a pt. thinks I didn't clean my rm

cont...I do give 100%, and recommend products, explain medications that might make the oral condition more likely to have build-up...when I do not have a pt. in the chair, due to $ situation on their part, they forgot,etc...I help in every way possible to other staff after my room is stocked and set to go...I do not sit and read a magazine...not every office on every day runs SMOOTHLY and high production...recession, $, these also play a role in office production...and many even if they do PUSH, products...are not being compensated by the Dr. WE, as professionals are lucky to just have a decent hourly wage...which is also going down...Does your wife's office lower everyones salaries or just the R.D.H.'s in this down-turn for the D.H. field's oversaturation? I see that the Dr.'s decrease our salaries, but I'm sure it's NOT the case for the rest of the staff....My opinion...

Hey skrrrrr,
I'm sure an auto worker on assembly line works faster as that line moves whether you're ready or not. I've worked factory and it IS hard work. Our jobs are stressful mentally and sometimes that's harder than physical. I know doc's work hard too. But to run the office and take care of the patients everybody has to work every day to make it happen. I've only worked for 1 doc who would say to take 5 and not crack the whip so to speak. But he was a rare gem who knew his staff deserved it. Funny, that was one office we really WANTED to work. We were appreciated and it made all the difference.
I've never had a hygiene assistant but I do know how much I appreciate the occasional asst who will offer to develop my x-rays or set up a tray for me, and to go to sterilization and find my instruments already running instead of laid dirty to one side is a fantastic day! I do think some patients resent paying when the hygienist is fast, thorough or not. They think I'm paying $150 for this?! I cannot imagine what a vist to a spa dentist would be like. I may go just to see. Have a good weekend all.

skrrrrrr in Victoria, British Columbia said: In a free market, 'greed is good.' That doesn't mean it morally good, but it is the American Way. Work hard, observe how others make the big money, then do it yourself: go to dental school and open a practice if you want to do well financially as well as in terms of self-determination. I don't believe in not taking lunch hour nor abusing workers' rights, but I do believe if I am being paid for an hour, I should be 100% working hard for my boss, doing as much production as reasonably possible.

But are we really as productive as we should be? After having worked for 8 years in a GM autoplant, I am amazed at the wasted time and slow pace in dental hygiene - production could be A LOT more efficient, but then doing so would kind of kill the whole 'relaxing chairside experience' for patients. Some practices have gone to assisted hygiene, but it makes me wonder if patients feel like their just a widget on an assembly line. So most of us work more slowly, with downtime between prophies, and thus I find doing hygiene is just real easy and relaxing. Forgive me for saying it, but some folks in this profession just don't know how easy they have it, and should not be surprised when the doc wants you to work almost as hard as they do.

Ummm, yeah...skrrr, it may be the American way, you know like guns and no health care but it isn't the Canadian way and it sure isn't the decent way.

A place of my own in Grimsby, Ontario said: Ummm, yeah...skrrr, it may be the American way, you know like guns and no health care but it isn't the Canadian way and it sure isn't the decent way.

Oh and you don't have to go to dental school to open a hygiene practice. And it doesn't have to be about money, big or otherwise.

skrrrrrr in Victoria, British Columbia said: In a free market, 'greed is good.' That doesn't mean it morally good, but it is the American Way.

Some practices have gone to assisted hygiene, but it makes me wonder if patients feel like their just a widget on an assembly line. So most of us work more slowly, with downtime between prophies, and thus I find doing hygiene is just real easy and relaxing. Forgive me for saying it, but some folks in this profession just don't know how easy they have it, and should not be surprised when the doc wants you to work almost as hard as they do.

Skkr..it really does depend on the office. I have worked both assisted and non-assisted hygiene. Assisted hygiene if implemented
properly, can be more relaxing for the patient than regular hygiene. The problem with assisted hygiene is that most often times it is not implemented well (eg, hygiene assistant is not avail because the doc needs her or she is sick for the day and the
clients are already booked) With assisted hygiene it can be physically more stressful for the hygienist. As far as being slow and unproductive, it goes back to one word. Incentive. The staff as a whole can and have made more money for the doc but often and I mean very often the only one reaping the reward is the doc.
In Ontario, as you know there are just too many hygienists and there will always be the threat of hundreds of resumes just waiting
to be called for the hygienist that is no longer motivated to
make money for her boss, knowing the end result for her is nothing.
Dentists could try offering better incentives, but would prefer
to wait it out until the frustrated hygienist quits.

nojobs in Toronto, Ontario said: Skkr..it really does depend on the office. I have worked both assisted and non-assisted hygiene. Assisted hygiene if implemented
properly, can be more relaxing for the patient than regular hygiene. The problem with assisted hygiene is that most often times it is not implemented well (eg, hygiene assistant is not avail because the doc needs her or she is sick for the day and the
clients are already booked) With assisted hygiene it can be physically more stressful for the hygienist. As far as being slow and unproductive, it goes back to one word. Incentive. The staff as a whole can and have made more money for the doc but often and I mean very often the only one reaping the reward is the doc.
In Ontario, as you know there are just too many hygienists and there will always be the threat of hundreds of resumes just waiting
to be called for the hygienist that is no longer motivated to
make money for her boss, knowing the end result for her is nothing.
Dentists could try offering better incentives, but would prefer
to wait it out until the frustrated hygienist quits.

At least in a factory you have the incentive of health/dental benefits and a 401k plan or retirement pension as well as cost of living raise and possible promotions. That doesn't exist with a dental hygienist these days..at least in Ontario.

nojobs in Toronto, Ontario said: At least in a factory you have the incentive of health/dental benefits and a 401k plan or retirement pension as well as cost of living raise and possible promotions. That doesn't exist with a dental hygienist these days..at least in Ontario.

One more thing skkr;;
Would you like to be a hygienist (non married to a dds) in Ontario knowing the current climate our province is in regarding dental hygiene? Also, do you think all these new grads will spill over to your province causing the same concerns? Does this pose a great opportunity for dentists all over the country? It is good to be a dentist right now, and will get even better for them in the next 5 years. If there is a bachelors degree program it will take 10 years for the correction and hygienists to see a decent wage again. No wonder they have lost motivation.

nojobs in Toronto, Ontario said: One more thing skkr;;
Would you like to be a hygienist (non married to a dds) in Ontario knowing the current climate our province is in regarding dental hygiene? Also, do you think all these new grads will spill over to your province causing the same concerns? Does this pose a great opportunity for dentists all over the country? It is good to be a dentist right now, and will get even better for them in the next 5 years. If there is a bachelors degree program it will take 10 years for the correction and hygienists to see a decent wage again. No wonder they have lost motivation.

Hi nojobs in toronto, are you currently employed? Is it really that bad in Toronto?

This has always been the climate of the dental business. Very few offices have ever offered benefits, pension, etc. In fact, some dentists even charge their staff for dental tx, the 1 thing that they should be able to offer. I've been in this field for over 27 years & only the large offices have ever been able to offer any benefits. The premiums are too expensive or the coverage is crap. But most small businesses are like this. This is something that should be investigated before entering any field. If you are lucky to have benefits, pension, you are in the minority. Don't forget though, rsp contributions, medical expenses, etc are tax credit. Although I strongly believe as a profession that does generate income to a business, we should be paid far more than we are our wage is fairly decent. On average in Ab LPN's max at $28.44 with the same amount of education the average hygienist has. We are lucky we don't get raped like mechanics & some hairstylists. These are only a few jobs that generate income but don't get their fair share. The only way to take home more compensation for our work is to own our own practices. When more practices do open up, dentists will pay more because they will want to keep hygiene in dental offices. Right now the public does not know hygienists can have private clinics. This is something our associations SHOULD be promoting. I would think that in 5 years there will more more private clinics & dentists should (but probably won't) work with independent hygienists as these are a source of referrals. By the way, 1 more clinic opened in Calgary & I know of 2 in the process. Good Luck to these people & a big congratulations to Jackie Blatz for her BBB award!

smile in Calgary, Alberta said: This has always been the climate of the dental business. Very few offices have ever offered benefits, pension, etc. In fact, some dentists even charge their staff for dental tx, the 1 thing that they should be able to offer. I've been in this field for over 27 years & only the large offices have ever been able to offer any benefits. The premiums are too expensive or the coverage is crap. But most small businesses are like this. This is something that should be investigated before entering any field. If you are lucky to have benefits, pension, you are in the minority. Don't forget though, rsp contributions, medical expenses, etc are tax credit. Although I strongly believe as a profession that does generate income to a business, we should be paid far more than we are our wage is fairly decent. On average in Ab LPN's max at $28.44 with the same amount of education the average hygienist has. We are lucky we don't get raped like mechanics & some hairstylists. These are only a few jobs that generate income but don't get their fair share. The only way to take home more compensation for our work is to own our own practices. When more practices do open up, dentists will pay more because they will want to keep hygiene in dental offices. Right now the public does not know hygienists can have private clinics. This is something our associations SHOULD be promoting. I would think that in 5 years there will more more private clinics & dentists should (but probably won't) work with independent hygienists as these are a source of referrals. By the way, 1 more clinic opened in Calgary & I know of 2 in the process. Good Luck to these people & a big congratulations to Jackie Blatz for her BBB award!

For you that don't know, Jackie Blatz is the president of the CDHA & has her own clinic in Alberta. Obviously private hygien clinics can be successful.

A place of my own in Grimsby, Ontario said: Hi nojobs in toronto, are you currently employed? Is it really that bad in Toronto?

yes and yes

smile in Calgary, Alberta said: For you that don't know, Jackie Blatz is the president of the CDHA & has her own clinic in Alberta. Obviously private hygien clinics can be successful.

I dont think it is that obvious yet. Many independents, like all new small businesses have a 2 year (+) window of not being able to make a profit. Give it at least 5 years to see how many survive. I wish all of them the best.

We have an independent office and were making a profit within a year. You just have to go about it the right way. And yes, good for Jackie!!!! So happy for her.

1RDH in Airdrie, Alberta said: We have an independent office and were making a profit within a year. You just have to go about it the right way. And yes, good for Jackie!!!! So happy for her.

That is positive wonderful news! It really does depend on location though, with nearly 40 schools in Ontario and other factors, such as
RX's for xrays which many independents dont bill and the lower fee guide..independence here may be more of a struggle. Also for BC who
keeps the scaling fee so low that it is not profitable at all.
Location is key. All independents should move to Alberta. They seem to have the highest fees, least schools and more procedures to bill.

Or push for change...Ontario and BC need change in order to support their independent practitioners.

1RDH in Airdrie, Alberta said: Or push for change...Ontario and BC need change in order to support their independent practitioners.

Out of curiosity, how many new clients do you see per month?
Ontario dentists see about 5-10. As there is a dentist on every corner here in the GTA area. The average wait time to get an appointment is about a week.

On average we book 40 new patients/month. We try to keep wait time to within a week, work evenings and weekends.

skrrr in Saanichton, British Columbia said: I'd like to see what a person outside of the dental world thinks of getting $47/hr x 2000 hrs = $94K/yr with a 2-3 yrs of community college education. That is probably more than the average new grad associate dentist makes out here, with $300K+ debt and 8+ years university education. New bachelor grads outside dentistry can only dream of making $60K/yr, and it will take many years for them to get there. Someone making $47 an hour is living in a glass house while they're throw the stones at the dentists. They are an easy target for government regulators and declining public opinion. 'Don't take from us, we're only making $94K/yr.' Ask an economist what reality is in this country. And you wonder where the pressure came to open more schools? You don't think such wages would generate a stampede of folks trying to a a piece of it?

amen to that!

yesman in Edmonton, Alberta said: amen to that!

You need to remember who's making the money for the dentists before you go "amen-ing" to that yesman.

Does anyone know how the DH market is in Edmonton and Vancouver? Or whereelse it is good?

beto in Toronto, Ontario said: Does anyone know how the DH market is in Edmonton and Vancouver? Or whereelse it is good?

I don't think it is "good" anywhere, including Edmonton and Vancouver. Try calling the provincial colleges/associations and check with them?

beto in Toronto, Ontario said: Does anyone know how the DH market is in Edmonton and Vancouver? Or whereelse it is good?

I don't think it is "good" anywhere, including Edmonton and Vancouver. Try calling the provincial colleges/associations and check with them?

This city aint got nothing to offer. A drop out cant even get a job washing dishes. Rent is rediculas, Jobs are scarce n getting my teeth fixed is impossible without either. At the end of the month im living outta the mustard seed because the city of calgary is run by incompetents who know nothing bout the job market cause they aint never had to look 4 work like the avrage canadians

1RDH in Airdrie, Alberta said: Or push for change...Ontario and BC need change in order to support their independent practitioners.

Ontario and BC need to address the issue of TOO MANY DENTAL HYGIENE SCHOOLS IN THEIR PROVINCES.....THAT's what is causing all the headaches. The glut of grads from those two provinces have nowhere to go to find work and it's creating a complete shift in the employment opportunities of RDHs across the country.

The private schools need to be shut down the market in Calgary is flooded.

Yep no more coming to Alberta!