Dr Vodder Manual Lymph Drainage Certification

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msmolly in Ashland, Oregon

24 months ago

Are there any Estheticians that have the Dr. Vodder MLD certification? I would like to know about the training and work prospects?

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skinwellness in San Francisco, California

23 months ago

Hi, Msmolly!

I'm an Esthetician in California and began training with the Vodder School 3 years ago; it was the best thing I ever did.
I believe every Esthetician should be trained in this modality. It treats everything from acne (including blackheads and cystic) to rosacea to puffy eyes & dark circles to edema to eczema and so on. I include it in all of my facials and recommend a series to almost everyone.
I work for myself so I couldn't tell you about work prospects. However, I expect that spas will be looking soon, more and more, to hire estheticians that are trained in MLD. It's going to be taking off like wildfire.
Especially when you consider the popularity in high end spas of Anne Bramham's ASTECC programs:
astecc.com

As for the training, it's definitely not simple. I've studied at the masters degree level (Chinese Medicine) and consider myself an intelligent person. However, I was almost in tears the 2nd day of the 1st 3-day class, as were most of my classmates. It's a completely different way of thinking and you may feel, in the beginning, that you're not cut out for it, because the technique is so challenging. But practice, practice, practice and take as many of the MLD classes as you can. You will get it and will improve with each treatment/class. I'm still amazed how great my technique is now, and I can't believe I thought it was so difficult in the beginning.

Any other questions, please let me know:)

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msmolly in Ashland, Oregon

23 months ago

Have you taken basic body/advanced body yet? I am looking at the course-work online and I see what you mean-it is intense. I am taking the 5 day face/neck basic and advanced. I hope I can use MLD to advance my skin care career. Thanks for your insights!

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skinwellness in San Francisco, California

23 months ago

msmolly in Ashland, Oregon said: Have you taken basic body/advanced body yet? I am looking at the course-work online and I see what you mean-it is intense. I am taking the 5 day face/neck basic and advanced. I hope I can use MLD to advance my skin care career. Thanks for your insights!

I've taken Basic Body & Therapy I, will be taking Advanced Body/Spa Body-Wellness next spring, through ASTECC this time because I'm curious how differently she might teach it. I definitely work with people's legs, arms, abdomen, & chest quite a bit. Especially legs; especially helpful for clients who have skin that flushes easily, even with gentle touch. Working on the legs helps to get the lymph moving, and after a few weekly sessions, their face is much less reactive and then can start receiving facials and more direct MLD on their faces.

I also work with several clients who have eczema (VERY effective), another client who's been experiencing daily numbness in her hands and feet (for years) and now, after 7 weekly MLD sessions, she's only experienced the numbness once! And another client who's had chronic ear pain for years, almost daily, and after her facial, she had no pain for days. She's starting a weekly series too. MLD makes up a large part of my practice and it's so fulfilling to know that you're helping people on a deeper level than just a superficial skin level:)
Good luck with your classes - are you taking them with Gay Lee in Oakland in October?

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skinwellness in San Francisco, California

23 months ago

I should say, I've taken Basic Body & Therapy I, in addition to Basic & Advanced Face & Neck. There wasn't the option of taking them back to back when I started 3 years ago. I'm very curious about that, since Advanced Face & Neck, for the most part, was a review of Basic, with a few special techniques for eyes, sinuses, ears, & hairline added in.

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msmolly in Ashland, Oregon

23 months ago

Yes I'm taking the class with Gay in Oakland in October. Obviously you are an esthetician, but it seems like like you are also a massage therapist? As an esthetician, If I continue with Body Basic/Advance Body can I work on clients arms & legs? There are only 2 Dr Vodder MLD teachers in the USA, so I too would be interested in experiencing the other ASTECC teacher at some point. I'm so glad to hear from you!

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skinwellness in San Francisco, California

23 months ago

You'll love Gay Lee - she was the teacher for 2 of my classes; and the assistant, with Koby Blanchfield, for the other 2.
She's very supportive and sweet:) Great teacher too, she's put a lot of time into some very helpful learning materials.

I'm not a massage therapist yet, but because of my undergrad work, pre-reqs for my Chinese Medicine masters degree work (never finished, don't like sticking needles in people, but I apply a lot of theory, dietetics, and herbal knowledge to my facials), the TCM program, as well as a 200 hour massage class, they allowed me to take the Therapy I class; but I'm supposed to get my national certification in massage, to be allowed to go any further. I would like to take every MLD class that's out there; so I'm in the process of getting my portfolio together in order to do the non-traditional route of becoming a nationally CMT.

It all depends on the state in which you practice, as to whether you're allowed to work on the hands and legs. As far as I understand, as long as your intent is to work on someone's skin, then you're okay. So I have a lot of clients experiencing "side benefits" of MLD, but our focus is always on the improvement of their skin ;-)

And you're welcome - it's fun to talk to other estheticians who are interested in MLD - there aren't a whole lot of us out there at the moment.

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msmolly in Ashland, Oregon

23 months ago

skinwellness in San Francisco, California said: You'll love Gay Lee - she was the teacher for 2 of my classes; and the assistant , with Koby Blanchfield, for the other 2.
She's very supportive and sweet:) Great teacher too, she's put a lot of time into some very helpful learning materials.

I'm not a massage therapist yet, but because of my undergrad work, pre-reqs for my Chinese Medicine masters degree work (never finished, don't like sticking needles in people, but I apply a lot of theory, dietetics, and herbal knowledge to my facials), the TCM program, as well as a 200 hour massage class, they allowed me to take the Therapy I class; but I'm supposed to get my national certification in massage, to be allowed to go any further. I would like to take every MLD class that's out there; so I'm in the process of getting my portfolio together in order to do the non-traditional route of becoming a nationally CMT.

It all depends on the state in which you practice, as to whether you're allowed to work on the hands and legs. As far as I understand, as long as your intent is to work on someone's skin, then you're okay. So I have a lot of clients experiencing "side benefits" of MLD, but our focus is always on the improvement of their skin ;-)

And you're welcome - it's fun to talk to other estheticians who are interested in MLD - there aren't a whole lot of us out there at the moment.

Let's keep in touch. I hope I am not overwhelmed by taking classes back-to-back, but I have to travel from Oregon for the classes- so I want accomplish both classes in a week!?!?!
Where do you practice-Oakland or San Francisco?

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skinwellness in San Francisco, California

23 months ago

I've been thinking about the back to back and I think that it'll be very helpful. As long as you go back and either take at least one more class or review with Gay Lee for a couple hours, a few months after you've taken the classes. She charges ~$120/hour for that, for private tutoring. You'd be amazed how much you can veer off course when your technique isn't checked from time to time.
But I don't think you'll have the near "nervous breakdown" that we had from just having the initial 3 day class. You'll get to review theory twice, technique twice, take your certification exam after 4 1/2 days of practice, and then review the special techniques after your exam. It sounds much less stressful actually:)
And yes, I'd love to keep in touch. I'm a bit obsessed with MLD, if you couldn't tell:) I've learned so much of what the lymphatic system affects, just by seeing the results of my clients, some very unexpected. Oh, and I've become obsessed with inflammation too! One of the things that the lymph system removes is products of inflammation - and you'll find that the results last longer if 1) they focus on anti-inflammatory foods in their diet 2) reduce inflammatory things in their environment (synthetic fragrances,...) 3) use anti-inflammatory skin care products (organic/herbal...)

Oh, and I don't know why I'm shown as living in San Francisco - I'm in Santa Cruz:)

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skinwellness in Santa Cruz, California

23 months ago

Just updated my profile. My website is now on there too, which also lists my email address. Looking forward to hearing about your class!

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msmolly in Ashland, Oregon

23 months ago

skinwellness in Santa Cruz, California said: Just updated my profile. My website is now on there too, which also lists my email address. Looking forward to hearing about your class!

I don't see a link to your website?

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skinwellness in Santa Cruz, California

23 months ago

Oops, changed it!:)
And just noticed something I posted a year ago on this board, lol, when I was thinking of going back to school to become a nurse (temporary insanity); so I posted a question on here about that. I was trying to think of a profession that I could enter where the MLD would be covered by insurance. Going to nursing school is just not worth it. I don't have the energy to go back to 5+ more years to become an OT or PT. And looking at OTA and PTAs, the future looks bleak for insurance coverage for them.
Now that I've been doing MLD much longer though, I see that it may actually be pretty recession-friendly anyway; so I'm no longer too worried:)

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msmolly in Ashland, Oregon

23 months ago

MLD is covered by insurance? That is great news!!!

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msmolly in Ashland, Oregon

23 months ago

I just looked at your amazing website!!! You are also certified in COE---that's exactly the route I was planning to take after MLD training. I love what you are doing, and wish I was closer so I could visit with you.

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skinwellness in Santa Cruz, California

23 months ago

Oh no, sorry for the confusion - MLD is only covered by insurance if you're a nurse, PT, or OT. Sometimes PTA, OTA, or massage therapist, depending on the insurance or state in which you live. But not for Esthetics :(
And thanks for the compliment on my website! :) I ran a Groupon this summer when I decided to go out on my own, and the emphasis was on MLD, so I wanted to give as much information as possible. It was been a fantastic experience! LOTS of referrals and re-bookings!
As for the COE, haven't done anything with it yet but the MLD and COE go very well together. That's my next goal is to start networking for Oncology Esthetics. Too many options:)
Wish you lived closer too - it'd be so fun to do trades. It's rare to meet anyone who has the same skin care philosophy.
Looking forward to talking with you more:)

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skinwellness in Santa Cruz, California

17 months ago

msmolly in Ashland, Oregon said: I just looked at your amazing website!!! You are also certified in COE---that's exactly the route I was planning to take after MLD training. I love what you are doing, and wish I was closer so I could visit with you.

Hi, MsMolly!
How are things going with you since the MLD class? What did you think of it?

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skinwellness in Santa Cruz, California

17 months ago

msmolly in Ashland, Oregon said: I just looked at your amazing website!!! You are also certified in COE---that's exactly the route I was planning to take after MLD training. I love what you are doing, and wish I was closer so I could visit with you.

That's strange, I just posted a comment to you but for some reason it's not posting.
Wondering how your MLD class went last year.

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skinwellness in Santa Cruz, California

17 months ago

skinwellness in Santa Cruz, California said: That's strange, I just posted a comment to you but for some reason it's not posting.
Wondering how your MLD class went last year.

Never mind, lol. There it is:)

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ms molly in Ashland, Oregon

17 months ago

Hi there,

Everything went great and I am looking for a part-time studio so I can work outside of my home.
I have to say that using manual lymph drainage technique has proven to be more relaxing for clients -than my facials.
I haven't been able to go back and take the other 2 cmld lasses (basic body & spa adv body). Have you completed all of the classes now? So great to hear from you!!!

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skinwellness in Santa Cruz, California

17 months ago

Yes, I know what you mean about the MLD being so relaxing; even my "type-a" clients fall asleep with the MLD at the end of their facial:)
I never got a chance to take the Spa Body Wellness (Advanced Body) class last fall. The dates never quite fit with when I was free. There's one in Florida in May and I'm hoping to make it to that one. I'll let you know how it goes.
I use the Basic Body all the time though, especially the abdomen and legs; in fact I have 2 new clients starting a series next week for those areas - one for stubborn weight loss and the other for face flushing (her face flushes easily, MLD on the legs is fantastic for that). The weight loss aspect is new for me. I have a client who's been trying to lose weight on her legs and abdomen for years and nothing would budge. After we added MLD in those areas, everything seemed to just melt off; it was incredible!

Also was in an article about MLD in our local paper a couple weeks ago. Got a lot of business from that - free PR! There's only one other person around here who does, who's not a PT or OT, so it was very eye-opening and exciting for a lot of people. I definitely recommend putting a press packet together and getting the word out that way when you're all settled in your studio. It's a lot of fun.

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ms molly in Ashland, Oregon

17 months ago

I overheard someone touting Manual Lymph Drainage on NPR 2 weeks ago. The post breast cancer person found much relief going to a MLD therapist. Check this out: n.pr/YBoTOy

Right now I am going to a manual lymph therapist and she only does 30 minute treatments per session. She is a therapist not an esthetician. I though it would be helpful/educational to actually receive some treatments. How long are your treatments?

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skinwellness in Santa Cruz, California

17 months ago

Very cool, will definitely check out the NPR story!

I've never heard of anyone only offering 30 minute sessions. How interesting.
Is she Vodder certified? What does she do in 30 minutes?
I do offer a 30 minute session, one I developed that's a shortened version of
the Face & Neck, in order to focus on sinus congestion or dark circles/puffiness
around the eyes. Sometimes I'll also do a Neck and Abdomen in 30 minutes.
I offer 30, 45, 60, 75, 90,... sessions. The most common are the 45, 60 and 75.

That's a great idea to see someone else for treatments as well. I'd really love to
do that. And up until the article came out a couple weeks ago, I didn't know that there
was anyone else here who was formally trained in MLD, who wasn't a PT or OT.
But there's one massage therapist. We met last week and are going to meet up again
to learn more about what each other does. She's trained in Lymphedema as well
so I've already referred a couple clients to her. Very much looking forward to having a
treatment with her - MLD is definitely one of my favorite things to receive, as well as give:)

So I'm curious how you felt learning the MLD. I know that I was practically in tears the 2nd day of
class, not knowing if I'd ever learn how to do it properly. I had a terrible partner though, not
very supportive, no helpful feedback.

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ms molly in Ashland, Oregon

17 months ago

I liked the teacher, but felt the class was a bit rushed, since we were taking Basic & Advanced Face/Neck in 5 days.
The classmates were a mix of estheticians and massage therapists. It was hard in the sense that we were practicing on fellow students and we were all new to the method. I think it would of been helpful if our mld technique partners were more experienced and could critique us honestly. The person I have been going to is a mld therapist and she does 30 minute sessions preferring her clients come more often for treatments. She studied mld in Oakland (vodder). Her technique seems different -a mix of Vodder and her own style. I like her method.

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skinwellness in Santa Cruz, California

17 months ago

Wow, I'd love to experience a treatment with the therapist you're seeing. Very interesting approach.
I prefer that too, for my clients to have shorter sessions and come in more frequently. It definitely
does make a bigger difference.
And I know what you mean about the feedback for the class, it's very difficult to know what sort
of feedback to give when your only experience is with the sampling the teacher gives at the beginning
of each set. It does work though, but it'd probably be less frustrating if there was at least an
assistant. My first class, the Basic Face & Neck, was the only one without an assistant. Every other class
I've had since has had one, along with the teacher. And there's never been more than 8 students,
usually just 6. That's made a big difference.

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RainaB123

9 months ago

skinwellness in San Francisco, California said: Hi, Msmolly!

I'm an Esthetician in California and began training with the Vodder School 3 years ago; it was the best thing I ever did.
I believe every Esthetician should be trained in this modality. It treats everything from acne (including blackheads and cystic) to rosacea to puffy eyes & dark circles to edema to eczema and so on. I include it in all of my facials and recommend a series to almost everyone.
I work for myself so I couldn't tell you about work prospects. However, I expect that spas will be looking soon, more and more, to hire estheticians that are trained in MLD. It's going to be taking off like wildfire.
Especially when you consider the popularity in high end spas of Anne Bramham's ASTECC programs:
astecc.com

As for the training, it's definitely not simple. I've studied at the masters degree level ( Chinese Medicine) and consider myself an intelligent person. However, I was almost in tears the 2nd day of the 1st 3-day class, as were most of my classmates. It's a completely different way of thinking and you may feel, in the beginning, that you're not cut out for it, because the technique is so challenging. But practice, practice, practice and take as many of the MLD classes as you can. You will get it and will improve with each treatment/class. I'm still amazed how great my technique is now, and I can't believe I thought it was so difficult in the beginning.

Any other questions, please let me know:)[/Q

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RainaB123

9 months ago

Hi. I am a licensed esthetician trained in lymphatic massage
or Vodder's mld. My father, Dr. William Brown, Ph.D
teaches courses in Sedona, Az. He can be contacted
At www.thetouchthatheals.com. Check it out.

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RainaB123

9 months ago

skinwellness in Santa Cruz, California said: Wow, I'd love to experience a treatment with the therapist you're seeing. Very interesting approach.
I prefer that too, for my clients to have shorter sessions and come in more frequently. It definitely
does make a bigger difference.
And I know what you mean about the feedback for the class, it's very difficult to know what sort
of feedback to give when your only experience is with the sampling the teacher gives at the beginning
of each set. It does work though, but it'd probably be less frustrating if there was at least an
assistant . My first class, the Basic Face & Neck, was the only one without an assistant. Every other class
I've had since has had one, along with the teacher. And there's never been more than 8 students,
usually just 6. That's made a big difference.

The treatment is either a head & neck perfect for skin disorders
Or a full body treatment. It really shouldn't be broken up
Into quadrants. That way of doing lymphatic originated
Via a way to bill insurance companies not for the greater
good or health of the client. For a complete 3 day workshop
On lymphatic massage please
visit www.thetouchthatheals.com

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skinwellness in Santa Cruz, California

9 months ago

RainaB123 said: The treatment is either a head & neck perfect for skin disorders
Or a full body treatment. It really shouldn't be broken up
Into quadrants. That way of doing lymphatic originated
Via a way to bill insurance companies not for the greater
good or health of the client. For a complete 3 day workshop
On lymphatic massage please
visit www.thetouchthatheals.com

Hi, Raina -
I've been doing MLD for over 4 years now, trained through the Vodder School, and have observed and learned many things about our bodies and skin through this process. Have performed over 3500 hours of MLD during this time - and have never observed that breaking up MLD into quadrants having any negative effect. In fact, some of my most powerful sessions include just the neck, face, legs, and abdomen.
I'm curious where you've gotten this information. Through experience/observation?
I love to learn anything about the lymphatic system, it has become my obsession.
Always love to learn more :)

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RainaB123

9 months ago

Hi. From my father, Dr. William Brown. He teaches MLD in Sedona,
AZ. His website is www.thetouchthatheals.com.
He trained with Dr. Anita Childs & Hildegard Wittlinger (sp?). I got this knowledge
firsthand. One, growing up receiving treatments from both teachers' modalities & being trained in lymphatic massage myself.
He has written a book on lymphatic as well. Google him & check out
the website for more info. Hope this helps.

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