England Logistics, Inc. Freight Agent

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Comments (38)

Big Rob in Redlands, California

47 months ago

Hello Everybody

I went to school approx 4 months ago to England's Brokerage School. I paid $2,500 for the class, passed with flying colors and became an agent for them. Over the past 3 months I have been busting my hump trying to get customers and move freight so I can meet England's $50,000.00 per month quota. Well, I am a little short....approx $50,000.00 short. I have however signed up 6 customers and they were in turn given credit to move freight. One customer got a $100,000 credit limit! Problem is, none of these customers want to give me any freight to move for them. So, our 90 day "try out" is coming up in the middle of June, and England said if we haven't produced we would be issued a Termination letter and all of our passwords would be cut off. It's not that I haven't tried because I have, it's just in some areas England has dropped the ball, and now I am paying for it. I was told they wouldn't just let me go, and that I was part of the "family", YEAH RIGHT! I was also told the termination is Guaranteed.

Does anyone know if there are any companies looking for new agents that I could try and get hired on with? It looks like the termination deal is guaranteed, as of June 17th I will be terminated.

Any Help would be appreciated.

Thanks

Big Rob

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m platt in Palm Coast, Florida

46 months ago

I'm talking to them now and have plans to go to Atlanta on the 17th.to be an agent in florida. Not a good idea? Had you been in the business before joining England Logistics?

Thanks,

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Big Rob in San Bernardino, California

46 months ago

m platt in Palm Coast, Florida said: I'm talking to them now and have plans to go to Atlanta on the 17th.to be an agent in florida. Not a good idea? Had you been in the business before joining England Logistics?

Thanks,

I completed school with England about 4 months ago, Have yet to make any money! But I have signed up 7 new customers, they just don't want to move any freight. I went to Utah, spent about $3,500.00 for the school, trip, hotel, food etc... Please understand that there are no guarantees you will get picked to work for England. Also the contract you have to sign, if chosen by England Logistics (not C.R. England) is geared towards England, not the agent. So if you get picked, READ IT CAREFULLY!!! So you know what you are signing. If you can, have a contract lawyer or employment lawyer read it for you before you sign it.

We had 8 people in our class, and only 4 got picked. 3 of which are moving forward, one bailed out after reading the contract. And if you get picked, and you decide to do it, if you want an England email address, it's $75.00 on top of the $2500 for the class!

Oh and I almost forgot....if you are picked to be an agent, you have to make at least $50,000 PER MONTH IN GROSS REVENUE OR THEY CAN TERMINATE YOU!!! and you have to wait 1 year to broker anywhere else (They have a NON-COMPETE clause in the contract). That equals out to 3 loads per day, 15 per week. You have 90 days to prove yourself worthy or you are gone!! You also get access to transcore360, and plan plus online. And make sure you have a library card with you....why?? You will find out, but you need one.

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Big Rob in San Bernardino, California

46 months ago

m platt in Palm Coast, Florida said: I'm talking to them now and have plans to go to Atlanta on the 17th.to be an agent in florida. Not a good idea? Had you been in the business before joining England Logistics?

Thanks,


Forgot one thing, if you aren't chosen they give you a list of 8 different companies that will take you on as an agent. E.L. will call them when the graduation is over and let them know who didn't make it. Make sure you pay attention in class, PARTICIPATE, ASK QUESTIONS, AND DO GOOD ON THE QUIZ'S AND YOU SHOULD BE OK. In other words don't screw around in class!!

As of today's date 6-16-2010 Out of the 3 who chose to stay on and sign the contract, 2 of the 3 have quit. I am the lone holdout. One of the 3 for whatever reason England Logistics has decided to ignore his phone calls, not return any of his calls or emails, and will not provide him with any new calls off of his call list's he had scrubbed to make any calls. There is no rhyme or reason to it, I guess they just don't like him.

Anyway, good luck with whatever you decide to do. Just remember 4 months is a long time to go with no money. It's a very frustrating position to be in. Give it a lot of thought before you do it.

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T Y carry in Salt Lake, Utah

46 months ago

All I have to say concerning England Logistics

"Run Forest Run"

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Big Rob in San Bernardino, California

46 months ago

E.L. Freight broker School:

Thanks for your reply to my post, It is appreciated. First and foremost let me say that after reading your post it appears to me that you are just doing damage control. You know absolutely nothing about me, or my situation at E.L. You said I was given the "opportunity and materials to succeed" Well did you also know that in class we were taught wrong by your instructor? Due to this development I came across a couple weeks ago by a slip up by your guy, I am out A LOT of potential money, for loads that I could have had, if your teacher didn't supply us with wrong information. I had no problem closing anything, the rates were too high due to wrong info we were provided.

I paid good money to come up there and learn a new trade, make some money, and be successful. Well E.L. put a stop to that by dropping the ball several times with me on NUMEROUS OCCASIONS, on NUMEROUS ISSUES causing me to lose money. If you would like to discuss this, please feel free to call me, I would be more than happy to discuss it with you in further detail.

I have given E.L. 7 new customers they wouldn't have had if I wouldn't have found them. That could be millions of dollars in revenue for you, and you guys in a sense screwed me out of income for me and my family. My $100,000 customer has vanished, why? Because I quoted him a rate on a load that was way to high, and the carrier wanted double what the rate was to go 1100 miles!!! Why was the rate too high?? Because England didn't provide me with the correct information to bid a good rate.

Look, I could go on and on but you get the idea. You don't really know me or my situation, so to sit hear and comment on someone you know nothing about is a little premature. I try everyday to get loads moved, and everyday I am confronted with people who don't really care what I have to offer. My 90 days is up on JULY 1 so I will wait and hear from Natina whether I stay or go.

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brian in Dothan, Alabama

45 months ago

I will be the first to tell you if you paid 3500 in expenses for a freight brokering school, you got ripped off right there. There is NO NEED to go to freight brokering school to become an agent for someone. granted not ALL companies will higher inexperienced people without customers of their own but you can find someone to sign you on. Rob, I dont really see how you can blame England for the wrong rate quoted. YOU gave the rate. rates are so volatile right now, you almost have to call carriers each time and see what kind of rates they will charge you to make that run. England didnt screw you over with the teaching, they screwed you over with allowing you to think you had to go to their school.

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Big Rob in Yucaipa, California

45 months ago

Hey Brian

Unfortunately I must correct you. You are wrong when you say I can't blame England for the quote.... I certainly can! You don't understand, the formula we were taught to provide the rate to the customer was wrong. The information they provided us was wrong, so I gave the rate based on what England taught us to do. I provided an incorrect rate to each and every customer before I found out from a manager at E.L. that it was wrong and he let it slip that we were taught incorrectly,and that the Transcore program we were using already had part of our rate factored into the rate they provided us, and that "IT WAS NO BIG DEAL." So because of this I Lost Money, plain and simple. The way we were taught made our quotes so damn high, nobody wanted to do business. So Yes Brian England screwed me with the teaching. But at this point in time it doesn't really matter, I am no longer working for them. $3,500 wasted for nothing.

brian in Dothan, Alabama said: I will be the first to tell you if you paid 3500 in expenses for a freight brokering school, you got ripped off right there. There is NO NEED to go to freight brokering school to become an agent for someone. granted not ALL companies will higher inexperienced people without customers of their own but you can find someone to sign you on. Rob, I dont really see how you can blame England for the wrong rate quoted. YOU gave the rate. rates are so volatile right now, you almost have to call carriers each time and see what kind of rates they will charge you to make that run. England didnt screw you over with the teaching, they screwed you over with allowing you to think you had to go to their school.

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Danny in Mcallen, Texas

45 months ago

I was considering going to the school in Salt Lake City in August, but now that I have read these posting, I sure am going to think about it twice. I have a question, does England Logictics dictate the price that you give your customers. Also have teh screw up been in not getting the loads covered or what. Any advise of what to do would be appreciated. In regards to the 50,000 in business a month, that should not be a problem in the market I am in. Ihave done this volume and much more when I worked for a truckload carrier in this area.

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Big Rob in Yucaipa, California

45 months ago

You don't think $50k a month will be hard for you?? Yeah good luck with that! The prices are based on a formula, England doesn't dictate anything except how long you work for them. Think more than twice before going ok. Nobody can make the decision except you. Total trip $3500.00. My advice, and it is only my opinion....Skip it! Don't do it.

Good Luck.

Danny in Mcallen, Texas said: I was considering going to the school in Salt Lake City in August, but now that I have read these posting, I sure am going to think about it twice. I have a question, does England Logictics dictate the price that you give your customers. Also have teh screw up been in not getting the loads covered or what. Any advise of what to do would be appreciated. In regards to the 50,000 in business a month, that should not be a problem in the market I am in. Ihave done this volume and much more when I worked for a truckload carrier in this area.

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Sam in Mississauga, Ontario

45 months ago

Hey Big Rob,

Have you found another brokerage since you left England?

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Big Rob in Yucaipa, California

45 months ago

No Not Yet. Not sure what I am doing yet. Why?

Sam in Mississauga, Ontario said: Hey Big Rob,

Have you found another brokerage since you left England?

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Seminar in Thousand Oaks, California

45 months ago

Big Rob,

Please visit www.rytelogistics.com and give me a phone call for Freight Agent opportunities.

Regards,

Seminar

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Sam in Pickering, Ontario

45 months ago

Rob,

Curiosity, I am interested in getting into the industry, have studied it for about 2 months now, just working some things out first before I make a move, haven't found very many, if any, companies that will give a new agent a chance, everyone wants experience plus a book before they are willing to do anything.

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Big Rob in Yucaipa, California

45 months ago

Ok Sam

What is it you are asking me? Your post isn't clear.

Thanks

Sam in Pickering, Ontario said: Rob,

Curiosity, I am interested in getting into the industry, have studied it for about 2 months now, just working some things out first before I make a move, haven't found very many, if any, companies that will give a new agent a chance, everyone wants experience plus a book before they are willing to do anything.

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Sam in Toronto, Ontario

45 months ago

Wasn't really asking anything specific lol, just making conversation.

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Danny in Mcallen, Texas

45 months ago

Big Rob in Yucaipa, California said: You don't think $50k a month will be hard for you?? Yeah good luck with that! The prices are based on a formula, England doesn't dictate anything except how long you work for them. Think more than twice before going ok. Nobody can make the decision except you. Total trip $3500.00. My advice, and it is only my opinion....Skip it! Don't do it.

Good Luck.

Actually I received an email with brokerage information and industry highlights from England. Off course with my experience, that is info I have known for years.Nothing new.. Well I am still not sure what I am going to do since yes the cost of 3500.00 is pretty expensive. So that 50k is based on a formula, it is not staright out revenue generated, gross amount. Also I was requested from England a list of customers and revenue levels that I have done business with. Not sure why they want customer names and business levels of all the customers I have done truckload business with. The majority of the customers will anyway start giving me business. What can you tell about Sunteck, been looking at them also and seems like they have a pretty good program in place.

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Big Rob in Redlands, California

45 months ago

First mistake you made was giving them your list of customers. It really isn't any of their business what revenue levels you are doing with who. Now you gave them the opportunity to take those customers away from you, not saying they will, but now they have all the info handed to them for free, bad move. I don't know anything about Sunteck. Anyway, Good Luck and give it a lot of thought!! $3500 is a lot of money in this economy. If I had to do it all over again I wouldn't have done it.

See ya

Danny in Mcallen, Texas said: Actually I received an email with brokerage information and industry highlights from England. Off course with my experience, that is info I have known for years.Nothing new.. Well I am still not sure what I am going to do since yes the cost of 3500.00 is pretty expensive. So that 50k is based on a formula, it is not staright out revenue generated, gross amount. Also I was requested from England a list of customers and revenue levels that I have done business with. Not sure why they want customer names and business levels of all the customers I have done truckload business with. The majority of the customers will anyway start giving me business. What can you tell about Sunteck, been looking at them also and seems like they have a pretty good program in place.

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Danny in Mcallen, Texas

45 months ago

No Rob I have not given them the list of customers I have done business with. They asked for it, but I have not sent them anything at all..Not that ignorent in this industry, believe me I know better than to let my list of customers go to anybody..Yes I am giving it a lot of thought at this time, 3500 is not drinking money at all.I know you had a bad experience and would not want to go through what you went through..Thanks for the info..

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Jason Hille in Fort Stewart, Georgia

44 months ago

Danny in Mcallen, Texas said: No Rob I have not given them the list of customers I have done business with. They asked for it, but I have not sent them anything at all..Not that ignorent in this industry, believe me I know better than to let my list of customers go to anybody..Yes I am giving it a lot of thought at this time, 3500 is not drinking money at all.I know you had a bad experience and would not want to go through what you went through..Thanks for the info..

Danny,

I attended the England freight school and have been an agent for about 9 months now. I believe I signed the same contract as everyone else and I have not had any of these issues or experiences. I got out of class and hit the phones but didn't landing anything too big very quick. I got some help from england with the seasons and leads and in not too long got my feet wet moving some produce and even some dry goods. Here I am 9 months later so happy with my choice. They gave me one of the only opportunities I had and I needed to get back to work bad. I hope you find whats best for you but definately ask a lot of questions and be careful who your askin. If you got a sales attitude and work ethic this is a great opportunity and I can say I haven't regretted my choice one bit.

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Gary in Milwaukee, Wisconsin

44 months ago

Jason, I have been thinking about England's freight broker training program also and have been told to expect to starve for at least the first six months, but if you work hard and are successful, it is very possible to make a six-figure income eventually. Out of curiosity, are you making 'ok' money now nine months later?

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Jason Hille in Fort Stewart, Georgia

44 months ago

Gary, you have to be prepared to hit the phones. If you don't make the calls (which is basically the job) your not going to get the loads. That's it. To answer your question though, YES I am making very good money. But don't just let me say yes and you be convinced. I know people who have not but I honestly have to say I don't think the dedication was there. You really have to nurture your accounts and you'll be rewarded if you do but as soon as you drop off you got to remember your accounts are legitimate businesses so they're going to get their work done with or without you. There is a lull when you first start that, in retrospect of course, I realized I could have avoided if I had made preperations beforhand by reaching out to friends, family, colleagues, local stores I frequented (I have a golf account now and so I guess I'm happy I had a hobby), etc. If I had done that earlier I would have gotten a better start though I wouldn't say I was ever starving.

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NPNorris in Macon, Georgia

43 months ago

Jason Hille in Fort Stewart, Georgia said: Danny,

I attended the England freight school and have been an agent for about 9 months now. I believe I signed the same contract as everyone else and I have not had any of these issues or experiences. I got out of class and hit the phones but didn't landing anything too big very quick. I got some help from england with the seasons and leads and in not too long got my feet wet moving some produce and even some dry goods. Here I am 9 months later so happy with my choice. They gave me one of the only opportunities I had and I needed to get back to work bad. I hope you find whats best for you but definately ask a lot of questions and be careful who your askin. If you got a sales attitude and work ethic this is a great opportunity and I can say I haven't regretted my choice one bit.

I am in Georgia also and am thinking about being a broker. Is there an literature that I can purchase to help me with my decision? Also, were you provided a list of businesses to call?

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Gary in Milwaukee, Wisconsin

43 months ago

I have also seen some online schools which are way cheaper than the in-person classroom type, but wonder if a person could learn the same or as well as having an instructer in front of you. Has anyone taken an online class or know someone who did?

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Gary in Milwaukee, Wisconsin

43 months ago

Jason Hille in Fort Stewart, Georgia said: Gary, you have to be prepared to hit the phones. If you don't make the calls (which is basically the job) your not going to get the loads. That's it. To answer your question though, YES I am making very good money. But don't just let me say yes and you be convinced. I know people who have not but I honestly have to say I don't think the dedication was there. You really have to nurture your accounts and you'll be rewarded if you do but as soon as you drop off you got to remember your accounts are legitimate businesses so they're going to get their work done with or without you. There is a lull when you first start that, in retrospect of course, I realized I could have avoided if I had made preperations beforhand by reaching out to friends, family, colleagues, local stores I frequented (I have a golf account now and so I guess I'm happy I had a hobby), etc. If I had done that earlier I would have gotten a better start though I wouldn't say I was ever starving.

Jason thanks for the previous response. Do you work as an agent for England or some other company, or do you have your own brokerage? You also mentioned you got some 'help' from England with the 'seasons and leads'. What exactly do you mean by that, did they give you a list of companies to call who you could potentially form a business relationship with?

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Jason Hille in Woodstock, Illinois

43 months ago

NPNorris in Macon, Georgia said: I am in Georgia also and am thinking about being a broker. Is there an literature that I can purchase to help me with my decision? Also, were you provided a list of businesses to call?

Hey I'm actually up in Illinois on a sales call right now. If all goes well I should be looking at a very exciting 4th quarter!

As far as literature to purchase there isn't really anything out there that you could buy that you couldn't find for free on the internet but in general I found that actually being in front of the instructor practicing what I would be doing every day was very important. It is basically like a week long job training and if you pay attention you will be very prepared for what comes next. I have heard of people getting the books or doing the online courses but rarely hear anything more from them which makes me think they buy something, use it a little, lose motivation and quit so all they did was spend money for a month long hobby they never intended to make a career of.

It is my opinion, and just that, an opinion, but the people who try to cut corners from the very beginning end up getting out of it what they put into it. Don't throw your money away on a book or online lessons if you don't intend on starting a real career. Make a real investment, go to a school that can prove to you they are actually practicing what they teach and doing it successfully. It was really impressive for me to see England Logistics and their huge sales floor and see sales reps at their desks who were actively doing the same thing I would be doing. The same people were there every morning I was there which was inspirational to me. I am glad I did it that way and know there are other ways to do it but I am a big advocate of you being serious about making this your career then doing the right things to make it work. This isn't a get rich quick scam but a real opportunity and I think I was prepared well.

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Jason Hille in Woodstock, Illinois

43 months ago

Gary in Milwaukee, Wisconsin said: Jason thanks for the previous response. Do you work as an agent for England or some other company, or do you have your own brokerage....?

I am actually an Agent for England. I got in when they were still sponsoring graduates but I don't think they do that now. Now I think they have relationships with other companies who need agents but from what I have seen getting a position after graduating isn't too big a deal. I have received many calls from other companies wanting to take me on, they say they like that I had my certificate from England Logistics but also know a certificate means nothing and you have to get on with someone willing to give you experience. There are other schools who will take you on but it is a scam (in some cases you have to pay them to be an agent for them). When I was looking at all the different school a lot of them tried to trick me with all sorts of special certificates but none of them mean a thing for you and they are just a really terrible way for them to make extra money on you. The only thing the certificate does is shows you were dedicated to getting into this and if its from a credible company then companies know you have had real training not just something you paid for.

When I said I got help with the seasons and leads I now have a manager who I can call who helps me as I have hit bumps. I can call anytime for help. Not everyone has that though and for their students they show you how to get all kinds of leads and will discuss the up and downs of the market which you should really pay attention to. At the class I took I learned everything I needed to know and was shown where to go to get the things I would need to be successful after leaving the school.

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Olomi in Tulsa, Oklahoma

40 months ago

I went to apply at the England Broker School only to find out that they no longer offer the class.

I was wondering if anyone can provide the class material that they covered in the class?

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Olomi in Tulsa, Oklahoma

40 months ago

Big Rob in Redlands, California said: Hello Everybody

I went to school approx 4 months ago to England's Brokerage School. I paid $2,500 for the class, passed with flying colors and became an agent for them. Over the past 3 months I have been busting my hump trying to get customers and move freight so I can meet England's $50,000.00 per month quota. Well, I am a little short....approx $50,000.00 short. I have however signed up 6 customers and they were in turn given credit to move freight. One customer got a $100,000 credit limit! Problem is, none of these customers want to give me any freight to move for them. So, our 90 day "try out" is coming up in the middle of June, and England said if we haven't produced we would be issued a Termination letter and all of our passwords would be cut off. It's not that I haven't tried because I have, it's just in some areas England has dropped the ball, and now I am paying for it. I was told they wouldn't just let me go, and that I was part of the "family", YEAH RIGHT! I was also told the termination is Guaranteed.

Does anyone know if there are any companies looking for new agents that I could try and get hired on with? It looks like the termination deal is guaranteed, as of June 17th I will be terminated.

Any Help would be appreciated.

Thanks

Big Rob

Big Rob.. Do you have an e-mail address I can communicate with you on?

I have a few questions that I would like to ask of you in regards to the freight broker class you took with England.

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Gary in Milwaukee, Wisconsin

40 months ago

Olomi in Tulsa, Oklahoma said: I went to apply at the England Broker School only to find out that they no longer offer the class.

I was wondering if anyone can provide the class material that they covered in the class?

I know there are a couple other organizations that also offer freight broker training the same as England and for about the same amount of money. Can't think of who they are right now, but have it written down somewhere. You should be able to google it. If I remember right the one place was down south and sounded like it would be better than England.

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johnny appleseed in queens, New York

31 months ago

i have been an agent with EL for almost 2 years now, i didn't go thru there agent training...any how to make a long story short I had landed a huge account 30-60 loads a week, very very demanding...i hired a team of people to service the account and after i cultivated the account EL pulls the account from me. It was not an account provided by them, I had been prospecting the account at a prior agency and brought it with me when i left. Big Big mistake to let EL director of EL visit your customer "to bring a corporate presence" to mix.

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Nancy in Livonia, New York

31 months ago

Then you quit and go to a Company that is not so underhanded and take the account with you. Most Companies will go with the agent that they started with. I would explain to them what EL did and ask if they will go with you to a company that is just as good and most of the time they will do it.

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george in La Crescenta, California

31 months ago

hi, im looking for 8/9 car carrier for sale

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Jason Yuan in Los Angeles, California

31 months ago

Time to find a new brokerage to work for Johnny. I'm sure with your experience, more than a handful of brokerages will take you on. As an Agent Recruiter I've heard similar stories like yours when talking to Freight Agents. Good luck to you.

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Christian in Salt Lake City, Utah

24 months ago

Johnny:

I would be interested in hearing more from you about your experience. It seems that there may be a pattern. If you wouldn't mind talking with me about it, let me know and I can provide my phone number and/or email address. Thanks.

johnny appleseed in queens, New York said: i have been an agent with EL for almost 2 years now, i didn't go thru there agent training...any how to make a long story short I had landed a huge account 30-60 loads a week, very very demanding...i hired a team of people to service the account and after i cultivated the account EL pulls the account from me. It was not an account provided by them, I had been prospecting the account at a prior agency and brought it with me when i left. Big Big mistake to let EL director of EL visit your customer "to bring a corporate presence" to mix.

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Johnny M in Salt Lake City, Utah

24 months ago

Bottom Line: DO NOT interact, work with or under ANY circumstance deal with England Logistics at all! RUN AWAY FAST!
The company is headquartered in Salt Lake City (1325 S. 4700 W., SLC, Utah). They are owned by parent company C.R. England.
They will use you, abuse you and throw you to the sharks!
Insanely bad Management, Middle Management and a micromanaged staff that are scared to even breathe. Do yourself a favor and never work with them or for them.

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Jay in Carlsbad, California

18 months ago

Big Rob in Yucaipa, California said: Hey Brian

Unfortunately I must correct you. You are wrong when you say I can't blame England for the quote.... I certainly can! You don't understand, the formula we were taught to provide the rate to the customer was wrong. The information they provided us was wrong, so I gave the rate based on what England taught us to do. I provided an incorrect rate to each and every customer before I found out from a manager at E.L. that it was wrong and he let it slip that we were taught incorrectly,and that the Transcore program we were using already had part of our rate factored into the rate they provided us, and that "IT WAS NO BIG DEAL." So because of this I Lost Money, plain and simple. The way we were taught made our quotes so damn high, nobody wanted to do business . So Yes Brian England screwed me with the teaching. But at this point in time it doesn't really matter, I am no longer working for them. $3,500 wasted for nothing.

First, E.L. is not to blame for you missing out on making money...honestly, all I heard when you spoke was," I didn't book a load in 3 months, it's not my fault at all, anyone wanna hire me?" ... I am sure that your inbox is flooded right now. You do know that it costs $149/month per agent to have access to transcore, right? Who is going to bring you on board, pay for your board access and software with a zero for zero track record???? On top of that you don't take any blame for your situation, it is all E.L.'s fault because the instructor mistakenly taught you wrong...it's not your fault for taking 3 months to figure that out? it's not your fault for not asking the shippers what rate they need to move a load? I mean c'mon, can't you think of a better excuse to latch on to?

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Jay in Carlsbad, California

18 months ago

Jay in Carlsbad, California said: First, E.L. is not to blame for you missing out on making money...honestly, all I heard when you spoke was," I didn't book a load in 3 months, it's not my fault at all, anyone wanna hire me?" ... I am sure that your inbox is flooded right now. You do know that it costs $149/month per agent to have access to transcore, right? Who is going to bring you on board, pay for your board access and software with a zero for zero track record???? On top of that you don't take any blame for your situation, it is all E.L.'s fault because the instructor mistakenly taught you wrong...it's not your fault for taking 3 months to figure that out? it's not your fault for not asking the shippers what rate they need to move a load? I mean c'mon, can't you think of a better excuse to latch on to?

and in case you wanna state that I do not know what I am talking about, I worked for England for 4 years...I made over 200k/year 2 of the 4 years...SO yea, it's you , not E.L.

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