CAREER CHANGE TO HVAC?

HERE IN NC, THERE ARE AT LEAST FOUR CO. IN MY AREA THAT REQUIRE NATE CERT. BUT THERE ARE STILL A LOT THAT IS NOT THAT WAY , BUT IT DOES HELP IN THE JOB SEARCH AND LOOKS GOOD ON A RESUME.

Hi, I've been a tech now for only about 2 years, but by working for a small refrigeration company I think I've seen a lot more than most people with my experience. Anyways, I enjoy being a technician, but it's not what I wanna do the rest of my life. I don't want to be a mechanical engineer either, is there any kind of middle ground?

after 21 years who do i have to prove anything to, except myself.

Dude I think your hitting the peak allot of us get to in this industry. You can get burned out with it. Facilities aint bad if you can get into it. I work on small refrigeration equipment for a niche company but the company is Fd up and so is the management, its been a tough time. I just keep stacking my certs and find ways to keep sane, hopefully something will break for me, if it dont, Ill just have to step. Same deal here, about 2 years, so for me its enough for my resume.

Wow you hit it , right on , it can get very stressful, I have seen others fail, even die, ( thats not related to the feild , just personal on their part, with nothin left for them cause there was no compensation from the company, but this trade will keep going, it will get cold in the winter, and hot in the summer, keep up with the trade or it will burn you out,and if you have to train others, they WILL quit, and this BURNS ME out.

Mike in Yokohama, Japan said: Dude I think your hitting the peak allot of us get to in this industry. You can get burned out with it. Facilities aint bad if you can get into it. I work on small refrigeration equipment for a niche company but the company is Fd up and so is the management, its been a tough time. I just keep stacking my certs and find ways to keep sane, hopefully something will break for me, if it dont, Ill just have to step. Same deal here, about 2 years, so for me its enough for my resume.

ALL THOSE CERTS. LOOK GOOD ON A RESUME AND ON AN OFFICE WALL SHOULD YOU EVER DECIDE TO GO IN BUSINESS FOR YOURSELF, BUT AS FOR ME PERSONALLY THEY ARE VERY HARD ON THE WALLET. HOWEVER I DO AGREE IN THE LONG RUN THEY WILL HELP YOU.I JUST RECENTLY GOT A HAZMAT ENDORSEMENT AND GOT A CLASS A LEARNING PERMIT SO I could get a class A or class B CDL JUST TO HAVE FOR A BACKUP. I also have a NATE CERTIFICATION. PRIOR TO GETTING ALL OF THIS I HARDLY HAD ANY CALLS FOR INTERVEWS AT ALL, MAYBE 2 OR THREE IN 6 MONTHS, BUT SINCE I GOT THE DIFFERANT CERTIFICATIONS AND SCHOOLING, I have had 4 calls for intervews just this week.3 residential/light commercial HVAC COMPANIES AND 1 REFRIGERATION COMPANY.
WWW.Craig'slist.com has been helpful some although you do get alot of junk mail response if you post a resume. you just weed out the bad from the good.

i am getting ready to start a hvac school in august is this a smart choice?????

well there is not really an answer to that question. But afew questions must be asked of you to actually know if it is a wise choice for you.

1. do you like difficult changeling work.?

2. Do you mind working long hours, holidays and weekends.?

3. Do you realize that the pay will be low until you have aquired enough knowledge and experience to warrent a higher wage.?

4. Are you prepaired to make the sacrifice as you would need to make in and career.?

Personally any trade in this day and age is a good thing due in part that there is a national shortage of skilled trades people due in part that everyone and ther dog is pushed to 4 year colleges and university, which is not a wise choice for 50% of the people going to them.
In the trades it is not a place for people who could hardly graduate high school, it requires brains even more so in the HVAC field with all that is involved.
You could choose a computer school and graduate and try your luck for a job aginst 4 million other people who graduated with the same degree. but with anything you choose to do, before you will make the money you have to put in alot of time. I have been doing it for 21 years and i am just comfortable, but i also work 55 + hours a week in the winter, and slightly less in the summer. One week vacation up to 5 years then 2 weeks after that. some places have benifits, some do not, but if they do you will be paying into it.
A guy right out of HVAC school here depending on the company will start at $12 to $13 per hour, get use to that until like i said you pay your dues and put in the time.

Skilled craft cannot be learned in a book. Likewise, those who do not like reading might be inclined to learn a trade. This is a paradox. New and old equipment function by either complex controls or good old hard-wired circuits. Additionally, HVAC has pressure/temperature dynamics and all the weird effects of outside temp, restrictions, airflow, etc. I am amazed that technicians make about a fifth as Dr's and techs make house calls! Those who are poor in mathematics and physics will be poor troubleshooters. Not just anyone can cut it mentally. Too many posts about physical stress-I say the smarter you are the easier the job because I often send someone out on a repair based on conversation with customer and current weather conditions.
It's amazing-the smarter you are, the luckier you become.

To anyone who can give me a little help. I just recently separated from the military (Navy) and relocated from San Diego to the bay area with my family. I've had schooling and work experience with Navy Air Conditioning and Refrigeration. But do I need to take an electrical course to be more competitive out there in the job market? My job/rating was purely mechancial side and was not exposed and proficient to the electrical side because the Navy has their electricians but do not work on Air Conditioning or Refrigeration. I have applied for HVAC positions but I see that included in the requirements it mentions electrical experience a plus. It's hard taking training and experience on ship's equipment and using it in the commercial building or residential area. Any help or advice I would appreciate. Thank you.

Were you a Utilitiesman? I didnt know the Navy did air conditioning. If you worked on aircondtioning, I cant see how you got around not being exposed to electrical, unless the electric shop handled all of that.

kegine your right about everything being a paradox. Nobody wants to hire unexperienced folks, but then they cant find experienced folks because they go to where the honey is at. I have to agree and disagree about the smartness part of it. Yes, if you know your sh-t you can make the machine sing for you in half the time it takes somebody else, but you still got travel time involved and have to deal with the management. Smarts sometimes involve a move on your part, that is knowing when to step. It also means being diversified. Pretty much everything is up to you these days. Its messed up when guys like the NC dude have certs stacked and motivation to work and then they cant find work.

Also, this comment here seems off,like maybe your talking out your azz?
"Those who are poor in mathematics and physics will be poor troubleshooters"

Im pretty good in math and know my laws of thermodynamics. Thing is I never use either when troubleshooting. Its all by feeling and experience. Examples: High Pressure alarm on a batch freezer. Check high pressure and its normal. Check cooling tower and fan, its all good. Somebody earlier had done maintenance on the tower and killed the fan. Simple sh-t like that. Another: Hot gas soleiod was leaking. Somebody had done some brazing upstream on a TXV and that downflow burned the little plastic diaphragm in the solenoid. Another: Contactor is chattering. Replaced. Call back. Problem was a relay on the IC board. I could go on and on. Very rarely do I need math.

Mike in Japan said: Were you a Utilitiesman? I didnt know the Navy did air conditioning. If you worked on aircondtioning, I cant see how you got around not being exposed to electrical, unless the electric shop handled all of that.

MY rating was Machinist Mate Second Class/E-5 ranking. A/C & R was one fields of work that this job rating does along with others like Hydrolics, power plant operations and so on. I want to use the 3 years of work experience from my last command and put it to use in the civilian sector. The only electrical our rating does is deal with switches on the equipment and it's basic contact on or off. Our job rating doesn't involve work or the experience a Navy electrian or Electrician's Mate does like dealing with motor rewind repair and wiring because we didn't get that schooling. I think my best bet would be to take a basic electrical shop class to help me in my job search and make me more marketable. Don't you think?

Thats cool dude. I asked because I knew a retired Seabee Utilitiesman and that dude knew everything. I wished I would of selected that rating, I did the USMC thing, and as you know they aint big on training for the trades...lol. Yeah, you got to know electricity, not so much switchgear stuff like sparkys do, but what happens after the disconnect. Study up on the contactors, motors (single phase and 3) start/run capacitors, start relays, wiring, how to read schematics. Know your transformers, Delta/Star and how that works. Bit of a learning curve but once you work with it, youll understand it. There is some weird stuff out there, like a corner grounded delta transformer that makes L2 read 0 to ground. You learn it in the field. Safety is very important. Single phase 200V threw me off at first, I couldnt figure out how two hots made the motor turn because I was thinking there was no return but there is a return, its because both hots are out of phase and one is riding on the other one. I still got allot to learn about it but I can troubleshoot with what I know.

Yea, I am talking out my azz. Please everyone reading this, put down your math books, quit studying stupid math, forget about p/t relationships and the refrigeration cycle. Use your feeling when a compressor drawing 16 amps/230-volt in a 3 ton, 13 seer unit fails early. Use your feeling when superheat is normal at noon and 35F at 2:00 PM. Use your feeling calculating split phase motor replacement hp/rpm when exact shaded pole is no longer available.
If you are comfortable replacing chattering relays thinking you got it nailed then by all means, keep on feeling it on that trip back at 3:30 friday.

Umm dude, you make it sound like we need to have a degree in calculus to work in HVAC. All of what you posted only requires simple math and the formulas for CFM, BTU, or anything else you need are all out there, you just take your readings and plug in the numbers. You can rearrange to formula if it dont work for you. Its all simple sh-t.

Mike in Japan said: Umm dude, you make it sound like we need to have a degree in calculus to work in HVAC. All of what you posted only requires simple math and the formulas for CFM, BTU, or anything else you need are all out there, you just take your readings and plug in the numbers. You can rearrange to formula if it dont work for you. Its all simple sh-t.

Also you talk about P/T charts...lol. Dude, the guages today have the temp/pressure on it so most of the time you dont even need that sh-t. How complicated is a P/T chart anyway?

Another thing, true if your working on heat pumps (I dont) you need all that but Ive seen people who were mech engineer grads who could talk all sorts of sh-t and give you all the formulas from memory only to go and replace the wrong part. You have to know what is wrong before you even get to the formulas and almost always, its something that doesnt require math, thats my point. I seen one clown who was some double engineering major go and replace the start capacitor on everything that went wrong, and simple troubleshooting will tell you that if the compressor is kicking off, the start capacitor is probally ok! An ice maker that is running but not bringing the temp down probally has something to do with the refrigeration circuit, in this case there was a restriction in the cap tube. If the time comes that I need the math, I know where to look for the formula. Your saying that techs these days dont know math, thats the senior dudes fault for not passing on what needs to be known.

Mike in Japan said: Another thing, true if your working on heat pumps (I dont) you need all that but Ive seen people who were mech engineer grads who could talk all sorts of sh-t and give you all the formulas from memory only to go and replace the wrong part. You have to know what is wrong before you even get to the formulas and almost always, its something that doesnt require math, thats my point. I seen one clown who was some double engineering major go and replace the start capacitor on everything that went wrong, and simple troubleshooting will tell you that if the compressor is kicking off, the start capacitor is probally ok! An ice maker that is running but not bringing the temp down probally has something to do with the refrigeration circuit, in this case there was a restriction in the cap tube. If the time comes that I need the math, I know where to look for the formula. Your saying that techs these days dont know math, thats the senior dudes fault for not passing on what needs to be known.

AMEN BRO. All the formulas needed can be found in text books, Nate refereance manual and several more places. I had much rather to refer back to a book or manual than to rely on my memory.Aperson can also call a tech support in their area, Im sure anyone at NATE or RSES would gladly help any way they could.

I did not say techs these days do not know math. I implied that people interested in trades assume that their mechanical apptitude will carry them. In my experience, techs need lots of technical savvy. I use specific p/t charts for S/H and S/C relative to ambient temp and humidity-can't find that on guages. Most of the data is interpretave which means critical thinking skills required which translates to having completed some formal education or experimentation. Downplay education all you want. I often council 35+ year-old FNGs to bypass an apprenticeship and go directly to work because it's faster and feeds the family.
Furthermore, 'If I had a dollar' for every slugged system or burst TXV or cap tube caused by a guage tote'n cowboy with a bottle of R whatever, I could buy you and me a couple of laps d's and a case of cold Buds.

Sorry about all this. I don't know calculus and only took physical science-never needed more.
Each August I take second-year apprentices for nine months-been doing that since 1999. My job is to get their OJT hours before they return to class. They work for contractors, restaurants, C-stores, etc. fixing, repairing, completing HVAC, electrical and mechanical work orders.
I know their first-year grades prior to start. They have grades in motor controls, industrial wiring, integrated mechanical systems (controls), AC/DC, Advanced AC, Troubleshooting, code, safety, gas welding, print reading, math and writing.
Fact: Students with best grades troubleshoot better, understand faster, struggle the least and statistically will make it through to journeyman 2:1 over 2.0 GPA and under. Last, the students who study get hired by better contractors in steady-eddy jobs instead of travelling.
Do for others without asking for anything.

Last comment. Don't say it's easy. Don't say it's simple. Support your craft, take pride in your achievements. Those who toil for a living are oppressed by the rich. Every man needs a good living. Would you tell your employer that anybody could do your job? I think you have earned the right to enjoy the fruit of your knowledge.

I agree with you that we toil for the rich, because they got it all figured out. Tech skills will make you a living, but the guy who can reorganize a company so that money comes in hand over fist is the guy thats got it figured out and will become a rich man. As far as grades go, I mean thats true but I never touched a closed circuit air conditioner ( I did work on chillers, now refrigeration) and I did very well on the NATE A/C test. I didnt attend no apprecenticeship deal or some 10G scam school either. You can learn everything in this trade OJT with some self study. Some people just want somebody to train them in a school. What you need is to haul for some old timer, get yelled at, hit the learning curve and step. Every application is different. Your talking humidity charts and all that. Ok, I can talk IC boards, low temp refrigeration, PTC/NTC sensors etc. The basics are the same, but the applications are very different. I mean DDC and pnematics are totally different. Just because I worked with pnuematics dont mean I know DDC so I cant say I mastered controls. You just got to learn the sh-t on the job.

Is there more steady work in residential, or in commercial work

commercial work I have found seems to not be as affected by the condition of the econemy as residential seems to always be.

And as for the other Q and A about math and troubleshooting, IT IS NOT ROCKET SCIENCE, DON'T TURN IT INTO THAT OR YOU WILL MAKE THINGS MORE DIFFICULT THAN THEY NEED TO BE.

And as for the OJT and Trade School. Where I live you cannot obtain a job in this county as a plumber without a jorneymens license which requires 5 years of school and OJT working for a master plumber who is the one that is going to sign off on your papers so you can take the test after the 5 years. To own a plumbing Company or to even hang out a shingel that says plumbing you need to be A licensed master plumber who holds a health permit number which is one more year of school after you have worked in the field as a journymen.
And Electrician needs 4 years of the same to become registered in my county.
But as for HVAC there is no repeat NO requirement to do it what so ever. So at least the person who is serious about being in the field could have some schooling in the trade. HVAC/R gets a bad rap, and that is one of the reasons. what do you have.? an EPA card that is pointless when the 410A and 134A do not require you to have one. it is only for CFC, so any tom, dick, or harry can go to the auto parts store and buy all of the 134a they want without any license. and they do not even ask for your EPA card when you purchase 410a.
This trade needs some good credability, and half of the guys I see here anyway do not even look professional. long hair, beards, crap cloths, crap trucks, and so on and so on. When I was working in Germany none of this would fly. and there you needed a journeymens license to do HVAC 4 years of school and OJT. and none of this is UNION. everything I mentiond is all non union.
A journeymen Plumber and electrician here NON UNION makes $21.00 per hour top wages for HVAC/R non union is $18.00 at best. why NO CRED.

I agree with you PA, THIS INDUSTRY DOES GET A BAD RAP BUT ITS BECAUSE OF THE ONES THAT DONT GIVE A RIP ABOUT ANYTHING BUT THE BOTTOM DOLLAR, no professionalism at all.I firmly belive in getting a quality education. That is why yhere is the NATE organazation to show the puplic there are professionals in this industry. As far as the CFC EPA CARD THERE ARE STILL UNITS OUT THERE WITH R-22 which is a cfc refrigerant . I may not agree with the "greenhouse effect" but since its the law I have to follow it or pay the consiquinces.

Im looking to get involved with the HVAC trade, my father, who is an electrician recomended I go to the HVAC union hall first. I cannot for the life of me find any information as where it is, can some one help me out? I am in the milwaukee, waukesha area. Thank you

HVAC/R usually falls under the steamfitters union have you tried them.

Ive never seen a HVAC union, I was trying to check that out myself. I think that it is cost prohibitive for HVAC to be in that but I dont really know.

From what I know there are no HVAC unions. Here in Chicago there are unions geared towards a specific field such as pipe fitters union, sheetmetal union, etc. One geard towards HVAC in specific I don't think exists. Each seperate union usually has HVAC implemented within though. Check those out first.

We are looking for people to promote generators in local Chicago home improvement stores. This is a part time position. Dates are May 30-31 and June 13-14 with paid training. If you are interested, please call 800,700,0747

I got laid off yesterday :<

I'm looking for another job in the HVACR industry I don't have my EPA cert yet so I know that I will have to take a job as a helper. But thats cool I LOVE this field of work if anyone has heard of something in my area let me know!!!!

I am not from texas, but. from what i have read texas last year produced more jobs then the rest of the 49 states combined, so i do not think you will have a problem. they are laying off people here also, but i guess i am lucky 21 years in service, they seem to always pass me over when it comes to layoffs..good luck

Dmj in Houston, Texas said: I'am a 35year old male about to make a career change from carpentry to HVAC,I would like to know is HVAC a good career or not? SERIOUS ANSWERS PLEASE,THANK YOU!

yes it is ok but only if you plan to start your own business i went to college for it and i help a guy and the pay stinks i also do it on the side thats whrer i make my money but it is very hard to get started on your own.

New Commer in Washington, District of Columbia said: You can go with the certificate in HVAC or get the associate degree in HVAC with any of it you can't go wrong.

Yes you can get an associates in applied science for hvac but you can go onto a mechanical engineering bachlors and masters. Every decent size company has to have designers. But most of your associates study won't roll into an engineering degree. The amazing thing is that you won't make much more as an engineer than as a hvac commercial service tech either.

Brian in Waukesha, Wisconsin said: Im looking to get involved with the HVAC trade, my father, who is an electrician recomended I go to the HVAC union hall first. I cannot for the life of me find any information as where it is, can some one help me out? I am in the milwaukee, waukesha area. Thank you

Hey Brian, you're looking for the UA local 601 in the Milwaukee area. They should help you out.

guys guys, i have read all 6 pages of this post and there is so much negativity. Now I have been in the flooring business for 7 years and it has burnt me out and I am ready to move on so I understand things get tiring and difficult, but for those of you out there saying you have been techs for 20 yrs and make $20/hr.....shouldnt it have hit you way earlier than that that there was something wrong with that picture?? I have a friend here in Ga. that is in his 2nd year out of school making $18/hr plus doing work on the side and loving it. I think its like anything else, and some of you have said this already, its like anything else in life.....you get out of it what you put in to it. I know it will be rough and the pay sucks coming out of school but I am willing to work past that and make it worth the time and get as much experience as i can.

27 yrs old
atlanta

welcome to the world of HVAC/R you will infact reach a pay limit reguardless of how long or how much you know sad but true every state is different true guys will make more money in areas that have a higher cost of living, but trust me my friend it all equalls out. yes side work is good but in HVAC service you do not have time to do side work, and meany places today that you are employed with will give you hell if they find out your working on the side. and here you cannot work on the side when still in school, they will not sell students anything but tools, and when you are in school and after you finish school, until you have some experience under your belt you know enough to be dangerous. guys with little or no experience doing side work is not good for any of us in reality, they cannot price correctly, they cannot size jobs correctly and work for less than industry standard, which causes consummers to get people who work for less just because it is less and that hurts everyone in the industry and in meany cases this is one of the reasons why in places and areas the pay scale is low, after all a person doesn't perform brain surgery until they finish med school right, so why should someone tinker in something for which they are not qualified.

to generalize that people who have graduated school and been working in the industry for 2 years cannot do side work correctly or know how to price jobs makes no sense. That is like saying someone who graduates as a teacher cannot do tutoring on the side after 2 years of teaching because they dont have enough experience.

if i did not feel comfortable taking on a side job then by no means would i, i am not going to ruin a residence/business HVAC just because i want some dough....i would only tackle what i feel i could accomplish. maybe there are idiots in the business who do tackle projects they have no right to be doing.....i am in the flooring business and i see it everyday, people spend 3 hours on a sat morning learning about tile and think they are a tile setter.

have you been to HVAC-TALK.COM??? pretty cool forum and they guys on there are super nice and very helpful.

Those are all very nice words but reality is a bit different. Personally, I dont thinks schools count for sh-t when it comes to expereience or know how. This trade requires hands on, there is no other way to really understand how the machine works. The employer doesnt want to hire somebody that dont know what their doing. It can take up to 6 months to really master brazing. You really dont need to learn any of this sh-t in a school, you can learn it on the job and study at night on your own. Its up to you, how hungry you are.

not sure how things are in Japan, but here in the states a technical diploma is needed almost anywhere you go to work. The employer doesnt want to hire someone who doesnt know what they are doing/has no experience?? Then how do you suppose one gets experience?? Every trade requires hands on, no one is debating that, but if I go to an employer with 2 years of HVAC schooling(hands on in the classroom) I guarantee I will get a job faster than a guy trying to apply and his last job was sales and he got laid off and wants a job in HVAC with no schooling or training.

Ive worked for the US government and private sector here. First of all, somebody in sales would never go into HVAC not knowing anything at all, he would never get hired unless he was a relative of somebody. Second, as was mentioned here before, a new grad is a liability because of call backs and he/she cant go out on service calls alone. It takes at least a year to grow a tech., so why hire somebody that will cost you money? Its a hard sell. As was stated here before, you have to start out as a helper and learn the craft.

if you read my previous posts no where in there did i say i wasnt going to start as a helper, i know that is where i would have to begin. I dont think they are just going to magically give me a van and say off you go....good luck...i know there is a lot to be learned after schooling is over.

anyway, i am determined to make the most out of this and learn as much as i can, i know there will be mistakes made along the way but its all part of the learning process.

As i said when you finish school you know enough to be dangerious, and call backs will kill a company, and the employer doesn't give a hoot that you have only been working as a tech for a year he will be up your butt. few years back at a company i worked for all i did was spend my days going back on the calls that the new guys did thats it thats all i did 6 days a week, in this part of the country there is a big big shortage of HVAC people, due in part that most of the young guys do not want to get their hands dirty, and the other side is 90% of the HVAC companies out there do not pay well work you to death, do not supply health denifits, no sick time bad vacation time. (You can see why people do not come running to be apart of it.) due in part because they are mom and pop companies, the other 10% are union, and here they cannot even get people in the union. as a matter of fact steamfitters local 449 will not even take you as an apprentice unless you have had at least 5 years working in the field, and trade school.
So if you want to make the most out of it, go to the union or work for yourself, best bet get in the union, you will never get rich working for anyone but yourself. but to start a business where you can live of of it will take more than 5 years

Hi Im currently working in pest Control and Im tired of killing bugs for a living. I have experience in Hvac about 10 years ago I worked for Lloyds heating and Air I was trainee and I istalled Trane Residential systems so i know about Installing but like i said its been a while so I was wondering if you knew of a good companyu that is hiring trainees?

I'm starting my Gas and Oil Burner Technician 2 certification (TSSA)training at my Local Community College. I decided to go this route instead of the Hvac course due to the advice given from people in the industry, calling local Hvac company workers etc.

My one concern is that all companies (even in Canada) want you to have at least 1 to 3 years before looking at you. Some say having my Gas and Oil means nothing. Any advice?

all of the certificates in the world are good, it shows that you have aquired training in those fields. But to be good at it takes time and experience in doing it, and most companies want that more than the deploma

What do you guys think of that technical school called Wyotech. It's quite expensive but I was interested in taking the HVAC program which is 9 months long. I had technical schooling through the Navy for A/C & Refrigeration Technician which was 3 months long. You guys out there think I should take this school. Been out of the military now for 7 months job hunting with little luck and I think I should just go to school here soon. Any advice or help I'd appreciate it.

Thank you for the advice and help!

Another thing-

I was what they call a Service Engineer or Maintenance Engineer. Wasnt really an Engineer (i.e. PE) but my job required "engineering" things in certian situations, creating solutions etc. This is very important in the HVAC-R trade. You have to find solutions to problems, sometimes manufacturing solutions. Knowing formulas and all that isnt really the whole story here. This is where a diversified background really helps. I was a machinist once, worked with CAD, overhauling machines etc. This all comes into play. Its what I love about HVAC-R.