Sell-out-surveying

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tombomb in Charlotte, North Carolina

82 months ago

Biggest problem with surveyors-greed! Very few companies care about quality & integrity today. Most field supervisors hire guys with little or no exp.hoping to save money to get a bonus at years end. Creates many problems: lower wages, less work, bad data, poor work ethic, broken equipment, no field to office communication, subs can’t get const. projects layed out correctly, and glorified crew chiefs can’t make accurate field decisions. Push button party chiefs have made a mockery of our profession. 23yrs.in the field and 8 states later,my mind is made up. Go west ol' man. At least the mexicans havent taken over our trade yet !!!

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land surveyormad in Aurora, Colorado

82 months ago

We also have a board that believes surveyors should draw pretty plats but leave out evidence of procedure and a whole lot more. We have a board that will pull your license for failure in drafting errors. How can a board determine a surveyors ability to survey based upon just one map? I have 33 years of boundary experience and can’t shake a bureaucratic washing machine I am in.

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Joe Willman in Sunnyvale, Texas

81 months ago

I do believe you're both right as rain! I just quit a company I've worked with for 23 years because the quality of the office work has declined so much! I'm a party chief and I take pride in the fact that I've been told I'm the best there is! When I put my name on a set of field notes I want to be damn sure the work is done as best as it can possibly be done. Now after all these years I can't even find a party chief job worth having. Been out of work for a month now and it's driving me crazy! But this time, the ethics and pride the company I decide to work for will be of the utmost importance!
Joe Willman... PARTY CHIEF!

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Carl Johnson in Beaufort, South Carolina

74 months ago

tombomb in Charlotte, North Carolina said: Biggest problem with surveyors-greed! Very few companies care about quality & integrity today. Most field supervisors hire guys with little or no exp.hoping to save money to get a bonus at years end. Creates many problems: lower wages, less work, bad data, poor work ethic, broken equipment, no field to office communication, subs can’t get const. projects layed out correctly, and glorified crew chiefs can’t make accurate field decisions. Push button party chiefs have made a mockery of our profession. 23yrs.in the field and 8 states later,my mind is made up. Go west ol' man. At least the mexicans havent taken over our trade yet !!!

you are so right i been in surveying for 30 years, before we had a button to push. most of today so called party cheifs do not understand the concept of surveying.

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name in Hightstown, New Jersey

72 months ago

Joe Willman in Sunnyvale, Texas said: I do believe you're both right as rain! I just quit a company I've worked with for 23 years because the quality of the office work has declined so much! I'm a party chief and I take pride in the fact that I've been told I'm the best there is! When I put my name on a set of field notes I want to be damn sure the work is done as best as it can possibly be done. Now after all these years I can't even find a party chief job worth having. Been out of work for a month now and it's driving me crazy! But this time, the ethics and pride the company I decide to work for will be of the utmost importance!
Joe Willman... PARTY CHIEF!

I've been an instrument man for 30 yrs and been layed off since Nov. 08. They layed off 2 crews and kept 1 crew which are much younger than I. (Party Chief is owners son) he stays no matter what which isn't right. His instrument man has less expierence than me (6 yrs). I have pit in resumes in but want younger less expierence workers. What's going on with this profession.

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carlmjhnsn5@gmail.com in Brunswick, Georgia

71 months ago

i have seen so call party chiefs that don't know there ass from a hole in the ground, but they have a job. i have been in surveying for 30 yrs. a party chief for 20 yrs, and have been unemployed for months. how come people that know what they are doing are unemployed? carl johnson survey-civil engineer tech.

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only me in Overland Park, Kansas

71 months ago

Carl Johnson in Beaufort, South Carolina said: you are so right i been in surveying for 30 years, before we had a button to push. most of today so called party cheifs do not understand the concept of surveying.

I can teach a monkey which button to push when. Does anyone know what latitude and departure is?

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only me in Overland Park, Kansas

71 months ago

Carl Johnson in Beaufort, South Carolina said: you are so right i been in surveying for 30 years, before we had a button to push. most of today so called party cheifs do not understand the concept of surveying.

I can teach a monkey which button to push when. Does anyone know what latitude and departure is? None these button pushing "Party Chiefs" do

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tombomb64 in Murfreesboro, Tennessee

71 months ago

so what are you doing 4 work now ?

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Wheels in Norlina, North Carolina

71 months ago

only me in Overland Park, Kansas said: I can teach a monkey which button to push when. Does anyone know what latitude and departure is? None these button pushing "Party Chiefs" do

I have been surveying for 30 years, 28 as a crew chief, these so called crew chiefs now, do not even know how to use a calculator, We used to get a set of construction plans handed to us, and we went out and layed out whatever, a mall, subdivision, etc, we had no data collectors, or anything calced for us, nowadays, if it is not in a DC, they can not lay it out, I know some crew chiefs now that can not even figure an offset, let alone stake anything that has not been calced, I would like to see them given a plain set of prints, and be told to go stake anything out, they could not do it, I still carry a 41, a 48, and they think I am nuts, Let someone have to chain something in, they can not even hold a plumbbob, let alone use one, Survey has really changed, I have been laid off since April, but all the $12 an hour so party chiefs are still working, When insurance rates go sky high because of there mistakes, maybe they will think about us REAL Party Chiefs, and think of the money they could have saved by keeping us, instead of them, Surveying will never be the same again, it is a lost art.

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carlmjhnsn5@gmail.com in Beaufort, South Carolina

71 months ago

i know a but kisser and every time he gos to a job site no matter how often it is like the first time he has been there, but he has a job-lites on but no bodys home

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d1970

70 months ago

I agree 100 percent with you guys...Survey party chiefs these days are nothing more than expert "button pushers"...they are screwed if something happens to their data collectors. I grew up using a Wild T2 theodolite, station/offset using baselines...then we quickly moved to RED 1a EDM's and then to full total stations. What you have now are companys underbidding and shortcutting to get the job, so they throw the inexperienced, low-paid, buttonpushers out there...bet those companies are in court a lot.

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twheels in Youngsville, North Carolina

66 months ago

LostSoul in Cartersville, Georgia said: Sorry to hear the way you feel guys, but if I had to guess why a lot of you are in the position you are, it's because of your attitude. Most of you guys claim to have 30 years experience in the same position, why don't you guys have your license? I've seen guys just like you come into a company and try to "prove" what you know, sometimes even trying to pull that stuff over on the Surveyor. The fact is guys, as business owners, you have to ask yourself why a guy is still a I-man or Party Chief after 30 years? It's nice to know how to slope stake using a level and a tape, but the fact is a good Party Chief who knows his way around the new fangled stuff, ie. data collectors and instruments with batteries, can put a lot more stakes in the ground. I'm not trying to bust your chops guys, just letting everyone know that there are always 2 sides to the story.

Maybe because after surveying for 30 years, I did not have the time or money to get a 4 year degree that most states require you to have now. And as the economy grows worse, is it worth getting a license? there are no surveying jobs here, in NC,
You say the button pushers are OK, well what if the cad tech put in wrong info, the party chief can not read a set of plans, something gets built wrong, Who pays for it? We who have the experiance can just look at it at times, and know there is a problem, I have come across many times, that a cad tech picked the wrong lines for a water line, or back of curb, these new people do not know how to catch it, and correct it without it being re-calced, waste of field time, and office time, plus the contractor is sitting there with his thumb up his ass because he has no stakes to do anything with, Some new PCs are fine, but most do not know surveying, most I know do not own a calculater, or know how to use it, what if you are on a job, a day from the office, and your DC takes a crap, do you waste a day to go back to office,

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fieldtrash in Charlotte, North Carolina

65 months ago

Jobs Bill was kilt by harryreid yesterday. What the hell !

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MFFS in Asheville, North Carolina

64 months ago

I would like to find a master surveyor who could help me in surveying a never before surveyed tract described in an 1881 deed. This is a rare intact tract that has never been divided and never been surveyed, at least not in over 100 years. Must have excellent references for honesty and ability.

I also am interested in any surveyors who have evidence of or have information regarding the encroachment of or take over of private land through moving of boundaries or otherwise by the US Forest Service, particularly in and around McDowell County?

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Joe Willman in Beaumont, Texas

64 months ago

How big's the tract? I specialize in surveying old tracts of land. Has all the courthouse work been done? All deed references been accounted for? If you're positive the tracts intact then I may be interested in monumenting it for you. E-mail me at jwillman74@yahoo.com with the particulars and we'll see what we can get done.

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tombomb64 in Nashville, Tennessee

64 months ago

SO your gonna really drive to NC to do a survey ,wow we are screwed !!!!!!!

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Joe Willman in Beaumont, Texas

64 months ago

Tombom, IF! And that's a big IF, I were to do the survey it would be for the hell of it, not the money. I really do enjoy finding so called "Lost" tracts of land. I can't find one of those big money pipeline jobs anymore, done too many anyway. I'm a boundary surveyor because I dig it, not for the money, so you're safe dude. I've got a lot of friends in N.C. and it'd be a vacation for me. The satisfaction of proving once again that there are NO lost tracts or fabled "No mans land either for that matter. You stay sitting around waiting on work to find you or to find it only on the net, you'll be hungry for a long time bro.

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Twheels in Youngsville, North Carolina

64 months ago

I have been layed off for a year, I would not mind helping free of charge, it would be a chance to get out of the house for a while, and do some surveying, that I love to do, I have done construction for to many years, would really like to do a big plot of land, if you need help, let me know

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Dom in Ocala, Florida

63 months ago

tombomb in Charlotte, North Carolina said: Biggest problem with surveyors-greed! Very few companies care about quality & integrity today. Most field supervisors hire guys with little or no exp.hoping to save money to get a bonus at years end. Creates many problems: lower wages, less work, bad data, poor work ethic, broken equipment, no field to office communication, subs can’t get const. projects layed out correctly, and glorified crew chiefs can’t make accurate field decisions. Push button party chiefs have made a mockery of our profession. 23yrs.in the field and 8 states later,my mind is made up. Go west ol' man. At least the mexicans havent taken over our trade yet !!!

I agree 100%. I've been surveying and licensed for over 38 years. I get so #@%^* mad when I see these modern day button pushers. I've seen plats, that I would never put my name on. There is no quality or good common sense judgement. I've been out of work for over a year and a half. All they want today is some young sheep skin college grad that has no clue of what really needs to be done in the field to provide a well and accurate survey that the client and the public can stand by.

Dom

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chrism79 in Bakersfield, California

63 months ago

Go West, you say? You won't find anything here . . . and for those who think employers only keep the younger ones, not so. I'm 31 and licensed in California and I can't find a job. I was trained by an old school surveyor (I actually still wear a toolbelt and know how to use a plumb bob), I can do the calcs on the hood when my instrument batteries die, I can draft, I can write proposals, I've managed up to 6 crews at a time . . . and still NO JOB! I'm starting to think in this economy, that my license is hurting more than helping. I think employers are really looking for those young guys without families that can travel extensively, without any benefits, and they know just enough to get most jobs done while working for beans. The main reason for this is because the owner can't fire the grey haired surveyor with tons of contacts that brings in what little work they have - they just can't afford both.

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Dom in Ocala, Florida

63 months ago

chrism79 in Bakersfield, California said: Go West, you say? You won't find anything here . . . and for those who think employers only keep the younger ones, not so. I'm 31 and licensed in California and I can't find a job. I was trained by an old school surveyor (I actually still wear a toolbelt and know how to use a plumb bob), I can do the calcs on the hood when my instrument batteries die, I can draft, I can write proposals, I've managed up to 6 crews at a time . . . and still NO JOB! I'm starting to think in this economy, that my license is hurting more than helping. I think employers are really looking for those young guys without families that can travel extensively, without any benefits, and they know just enough to get most jobs done while working for beans. The main reason for this is because the owner can't fire the grey haired surveyor with tons of contacts that brings in what little work they have - they just can't afford both.

I'd be honored to work with someone like you. You made my day.

Dom

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carlbob in Beaufort, South Carolina

63 months ago

i am unemploymed and button pushers have a job I have 30 years experience but that dose not meen any thing, i know how to work whwn you systems failure, i have a hp-33 and know how to use it, i do not have a PLS or PE just experience.

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swebsurf in Raleigh, North Carolina

63 months ago

Greetings. I'm interested in Surveying as a 2nd career, but am somewhat skeptical after reading this thread. If I do decide to pursue, will an Associate Degree be sufficient? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Scott
North Carolina

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Dom in Ocala, Florida

63 months ago

swebsurf in Raleigh, North Carolina said: Greetings. I'm interested in Surveying as a 2nd career, but am somewhat skeptical after reading this thread. If I do decide to pursue, will an Associate Degree be sufficient? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Scott
North Carolina

Scott, unfortunately an associate degree is not suffient. In florida, the requirment is a four year degree and four years under a professional. Personally, I believe that if a person such as yourself as a 2 year degress and experience, combined with taking CST (Certified Survey Technician) courses, which go to a level 4 and passes, he's more than qualified to take the surveyors exam. There seems to be a lot more postings for engineers then surveyors; you may want to reconsider as an alternative. Good luck to you.

Dom

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LoveSurveying in Texarkana, Texas

63 months ago

swebsurf in Raleigh, North Carolina said: Greetings. I'm interested in Surveying as a 2nd career, but am somewhat skeptical after reading this thread. If I do decide to pursue, will an Associate Degree be sufficient? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Scott
North Carolina

Scott,

I have a 2 year degree and am licensed, but that is becoming a thing of the past. You'll have to look at the requirements in the particular state you'd like to work in. I'm licensed in two states and they are the only states I'm interested in working in, so I'm fine with it. Your decision on a 2 or 5 year school will depend on where you want to work and the state's requirements. It's free information listed on every state board site, so you can see for yourself if it's enough for where you want to work. I did have a lot of engineering courses before I switched, so the decision for me was an easy one. I had taken most of the required classes already. You should see what classes you've already taken that may apply toward the degree requirements for your state. You may be able to get that 4 or 5 year required surveying degree in a couple of years if you've had a lot of classes previously that apply like I did.

Good luck!

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Roger C. in West Monroe, Louisiana

58 months ago

Carl Johnson in Beaufort, South Carolina said: you are so right i been in surveying for 30 years, before we had a button to push. most of today so called party cheifs do not understand the concept of surveying.

You guys are so right, I have been involved in the business for 30 years before all the shortcut gadgets came about and I must say it makes me sick to see 90% of the people that call themselves party chiefs/surveyors these days. I would love to take em' back a few years or at best take away their GPS and data tech's and then throw them to the wolves. I have busted my booty my entire life to hone my skills and to see some snot nosed brat even think he could ever be in my league is pathetic and they are giving the remaining 10% of us a bad rap with their lack of ethics and skill. I have constructed 1000's of miles of major interstate highways, power plant and transmission lines, pipelines, countless boundary surveys and every thing else under GOD's blue sky, well before GPS and data tech's were ever a thought of. We as REAL party chiefs have lost just about all decision making and the respect of the clients and contractors as a result of corner cutting companies. It has gotten so bad that they have even started hiring unqualified supervisors, so much so that in fact the last several jobs I have accepted wound up with me doing the very same supervisor position that I turned down in the first place simply because I didn't want the headache of dealing with these so called push button make believe party chiefs. Someone PLEASE tell me that there is a solution to this downward spiral that our beloved profession is going down. I am so glad to see that I am not alone in my beliefs and thought, this is just the type place I have been looking for, a place for us remaining 10% er's to voice our opinion and hopefully some day somehow set things right...Anyone know how to get rid of all the satellites???

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carl johnson in Beaufort, South Carolina

58 months ago

well i like being able to use DGPS, autotracking instruments, and laser (lidar) scanners are cool, but i see guys i don't know ?? ,,there scared of pencil & paper, one time i was ask ,,why do you take written notes, when you have a data collector, i said if you don't keep hard notes you are a fool, it has covered my ass alot of times.

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carl johnson in Beaufort, South Carolina

58 months ago

right,, bad cadd, or bad plans, when i get an upload i test it,,,, i check my work, and anybodys computions, and data collectors can fail,through the years i had - 3 HP 11cs,,1 HP 41,,2 HP 48s that was maybe the best calculator there was,, i know now it is old news, also 1 HP 32s, they all saw a lot of fieldwork, before they quit, or lost,, now i have a HP 33s, with trig, cogo programs, buy the way it will add & substract, tooo

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Roger C. in West Monroe, Louisiana

58 months ago

Your right about the HP48 sx/gx there are great and i still use a gx for all my calculations and plan verifications.

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Roger C. in West Monroe, Louisiana

58 months ago

That's those button pusher , eventually they wont even know what a pencil and field book is.

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LostSoul in Cartersville, Georgia

58 months ago

How you change the current situation of the so-called party chiefs as you say, is to get your license and start your own company. Once you do this, you can hire, and or train anyone you want to do things the way you want them to do it. I understand that people should know how to do things with just a calculator, but at the same time, why hate technology? I think that the main reason the old school guys are complaining is simply because they can't keep up with the changes in technology, and are simply being pushed out because they can't or don't understand the equipment of today. Sorry guys, but there is a reason it's called "old school".

If I was a business owner, why would I want a guy sit on the hood of the truck and using a pencil, paper, calculator, try to calc a radius point, when he could simply do a distance-distance intersection in the intersection cogo menu, that shows 2 different solutions on a color screen map, using the latest data collector?

Do you guys hate ac in your vehicles as well? Would you rather go back to 45's and eight tracks?

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John in Catonsville, Maryland

58 months ago

The main issue I see with the "new party chief" is that the DO NOT know how to figure things such as a distance-distance intersection nor anything else. ALL they know to do is "I have to set this point, now push a button to get an angle and distance". They do not even have the experience to notice if something is staked out wrong like an experienced crew chief can.

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carl johnson in Beaufort, South Carolina

58 months ago

10-4 on that, i have seen that ,the man on the job could not see it was wrong,,,i could see it was wrong before i got out of truck, they do not understand the concept, of math & science, that is what survey-civil engineering, is,, use your head,,, it is that thing about 3' above youe ass, not that hard

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LostSoul in Cartersville, Georgia

58 months ago

I understand where you 2 guys are coming from, as I have seen it myself. We had a guy that worked for us at the company that I started with. He went out one day to stake storm, and had 2 catchbasins across the road from one another. One had a cut of 6' or something of that nature, while the one across the road had a cut of 20'. Now obviously someone fat fingered in the office putting the values into the file, but when his I-man said that it didn't look right, he said that was what the DC said so he was going to leave it alone.

On the same note, I have seen some guys in their early 30's who are Party Chiefs. Not to toot my own horn, but I am one of those guys. When I started surveying 11 years ago, data collectors were already here. I know that I was fortunate because of the Surveyor who I worked for wanted and showed me how to do things and to not fully depend on the DC. I know from interviewing with other companies and talking with others in the industry, that it isn't the individuals fault, but the Surveyor. Companines today, especially the bigger ones just want warm bodies in the field. I've run across many "Party Chiefs" with the bigger companies who are nothing more than I-men. A lot of companies today will not let their field crew calc points in the field. I know guys who will break setup and go back to the office once they find a couple pins because they don't know how to translate and rotate.

I see where you guys are coming from now. The way it come across was, anyone that hasn't pulled a chain wasn't a true Party Chief. I agree that there are a lot of misguided guys out there now, but in my opinion it's the companies that put these guys out there, fault.

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John in Catonsville, Maryland

58 months ago

I will absolutely agree with you LostSoul, it is the company's fault. One company I worked for did not even send a set of plans out with the "crew chief", not that he knew how to read them anyway (I asked him one day and he said he couldn't). Their attitude was "if he wants to learn this, he can do it on his own, take a class" (just about verbatim). Now mind you, I do not claim to know nearly as much as many on this forum, but, as an office (sometimes fat fingered) drafter and setting up field work, I did learn to depend on the knowledgeable crew chief. If they called me and questioned something I did, by all means, I would check it immediately, and if I was wrong, correct it. Those guys saved me a few times, I hope I saved them a few times as well.....

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carl johnson in Beaufort, South Carolina

58 months ago

when - not -if when systems, all systems fail, everybody is going to be in a mess, nothing will work without a computer, god help us ,,cars want run, stores want sell ,, trans systems you want,,you can go anywhere,,, but i can still do my job,,,!!!

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LostSoul in Cartersville, Georgia

58 months ago

carl johnson in Beaufort, South Carolina said: when - not -if when systems, all systems fail, everybody is going to be in a mess, nothing will work without a computer, god help us ,,cars want run, stores want sell ,, trans systems you want,,you can go anywhere,,, but i can still do my job,,,!!!

Mr. Johnson, if the system fails like you envision, I think our knowledge of the outdoors will come in handy more so than our job skills.

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John in Catonsville, Maryland

58 months ago

So, along to another question... since we all pretty much seem to realize that surveying is never coming back to its' old glory, what industries are displaced surveying people looking at/ migrating to? I have been unemployed for over two years and just can not find a whole lot going on.....

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only me in Overland Park, Kansas

57 months ago

I havent been on this site for quite some time. Each and everyone you old school party chiefs is right. Im one too. I love to hand some button pushing punk party chief a plumb bob and have him give me line. They grab the pole instead. I will admit that I cant hold it as still as I used to. These kids would be lost without GPS and DCs and clueless how to topo let alone construction stake. I will say that all this new stuff has made things easier and faster but lets not forget where we came from.

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carlmjhnsn5@gmail.com in Beaufort, South Carolina

57 months ago

yes and now they may can do the work if everything is correct, but they will not check anything they don't know how,,,

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Bob in Baltimore, Maryland

56 months ago

carlmjhnsn5@gmail.com in Brunswick, Georgia said: i have seen so call party chiefs that don't know there ass from a hole in the ground, but they have a job. i have been in surveying for 30 yrs. a party chief for 20 yrs, and have been unemployed for months. how come people that know what they are doing are unemployed? carl johnson survey-civil engineer tech.

Younger guys mean longer work time. 30 years exp... you're to close to retirement for most companies to even consider. I know that sucks, but if you owned a company, would you hire an older guy who's body is slowly going to pot and who will be retiring in a max of 10 yrs or the young guy with a little less experience, but a longer career path and better physical shape?
Bottom line is, with all the new gear, (ie: GPS, Robotic Total Stations, Digital Levels, Handheld SuperComputer Data Collectors etc.)Survey companies can hire young guys with little or no experience, get an employee that will be with them for a long time and one who is most likely in better shape than the older more experienced guy.

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Wheels in Louisburg, North Carolina

56 months ago

Bob in Baltimore, Maryland said: Younger guys mean longer work time. 30 years exp... you're to close to retirement for most companies to even consider. I know that sucks, but if you owned a company, would you hire an older guy who's body is slowly going to pot and who will be retiring in a max of 10 yrs or the young guy with a little less experience, but a longer career path and better physical shape?
Bottom line is, with all the new gear, (ie: GPS, Robotic Total Stations, Digital Levels, Handheld SuperComputer Data Collectors etc.)Survey companies can hire young guys with little or no experience, get an employee that will be with them for a long time and one who is most likely in better shape than the older more experienced guy.

You say after 30 years of surveying you are close to retirement, I have been surveying for 32 years now, well, I have been layed off for almost 2, but I am only 48, I have at least 25 years left before I can retire, and I can still out work the younger guys, All they want to do is sit in the truck, I have no problem with being out in the field, I can run GPS, Robotics, I am the one who taught the new PC to run the data collector, plus when they have a problem with it in the field, it is me who had to walk all the back to the gun to fix it for them, I may be old school, but I know the aspects and principals of surveying, Some people say after 30 years, I should be licensed, well I would not put my name on some of the things I have seen other people do, I have seen these young PCs lie about ties, monumentation, what they have and have not done in the field, What they can and cannot do, I would like to get my license, I have my LSIT, but as the economy gets worse, I do not see any reason too, I know licensed surveyors right now sitting at home like me, There is just no work, But like others have said, the young button pushers are all working, I would take a hell of a pay cut to go back to work,

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carlmilt in Beaufort, South Carolina

56 months ago

10-4,, i am in the same boat,, i just need a job,, yes i am seasoned, but when things go wrong i know what do,,i have work on all kinds of projects,, i am up for positions, one out of hundreds, for the same position, i undrestand, they want younger people, you are right they will say they did something, but did not, and will not check the info-(nothing) before they stake it out,,i could not do that if i tryed. if i did something without checking it i could not sleep.

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John in Catonsville, Maryland

56 months ago

So, with all the out of work surveyors around the country, we could easily start our own nationwide surveying company..... if only there was any work out there......

What kind of company could we all start to make use of our surveying skills?

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Rb in Corona, California

56 months ago

Bob in Baltimore, Maryland said: Younger guys mean longer work time. 30 years exp... you're to close to retirement for most companies to even consider. I know that sucks, but if you owned a company, would you hire an older guy who's body is slowly going to pot and who will be retiring in a max of 10 yrs or the young guy with a little less experience, but a longer career path and better physical shape?
Bottom line is, with all the new gear, (ie: GPS, Robotic Total Stations, Digital Levels, Handheld SuperComputer Data Collectors etc.)Survey companies can hire young guys with little or no experience, get an employee that will be with them for a long time and one who is most likely in better shape than the older more experienced guy.

Sorry...using the "younger guys work harder" doesn't cut it. As a female that has been working in this industry for 20+ yrs I find that the 20 something yr old kids just can't keep up and start whinning after 8 hrs about how it's time to go home.

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Roger C. in West Monroe, Louisiana

56 months ago

You are exactly right I go through 10-15 20 year old a year nearly ( depending on what type project I"m on) You don't see 20 year old's flying the space shuttle do...didn't think so. Older surveyors and so much less likely to make Mistakes...WHY? because we verify ourselves something these little push button fake ass wannabes have no idea how to do. It is plum pathetic to watch them try and work sometimes but I have done decided that it's a dog eat dog market now and I just let them hang themselves where as use to I would fix everything for them and try and teach them what they did wrong,BUT NO MORE I am looking out for one person from now on "ME" , most of these wannabe people are so incompetent and have such little common sense that they could easily stake, for instance a curb and gutter line directly perpendicular across a major highway and would have no idea as to what they did was wrong and once it was pointed out to them they wouldn't know how to fix it..So yeah I don't believe I would want an office full of 20 year button pushers with TSC2's and RTK than I would a couple old timers with the same equipment PLUS an HP 48 calculator and scale in their hand that actually had the knowledge on how to use it, I know as a company owner I would sleep better. It's just a damn shame how untalented and completely idiotic a person has to be to be to acquire the title of party chief these days.

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Bob in Baltimore, Maryland

56 months ago

I didn't mean that I would actually hire a younger guy for anything other than a Rodman, or maybe an I-Man, I'm just pointing out what seems to be going on in the larger companies in the industry. I worked for one of the largest Survey Companies in Texas for several years and the made a practice of hiring young inexperienced guys and training and promoting them up through the ranks, with very small raises, so we had 21 and 22 year old party chiefs with a few years robotic and gps topo experience but no real knowledge. I then went to work for a Dredging company and realized they were doing the same thing...I was hired at a salary higher than the project engineer because this was how he had gotten his job... I was taking orders from someone with less knowledge than me, and when we went to build beaches, I had to train alot of these schmucks on how to even plumb a rod...pathetic.
BTW. I am in Southern CA and job hunting if anyone knows of anything. I have both land and Hydrographic Experience and am a Certified CAD drafter.

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John in Catonsville, Maryland

56 months ago

Bob, how did it come about that you are now in southern CA, yet your screen name says "Bob in Baltimore?

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Bob in Baltimore, Maryland

56 months ago

I have clearwire internet and for some reason it thinks I am in Baltimore. I think their hub is there or something.

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