Are current surveys more "accurate than a survey from 20 / 30 years ago ???

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Joel in Morrow, Georgia

103 months ago

Surveying today is more accurate than it was 20-30 years ago. As technology advances, so does surveying. You can achieve better results with todays surveying tools as apposed to 20 years ago...with or without GPS.

I'm sure their are companies out there that will "tweak" the bounds of a property to fit the clients needs. This is not common though as its very unprofessional...not to mention illegal.

You'd be surprised how a better survey can effect a properties acreage. A few seconds/minutes 100ths/tenths +/- can go a long ways.

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Gagal in Southwest Brevard Cnty, Florida

55 months ago

HELP!! I have had two surveys done in six months. They don't even agree!! My deed has measurements that do not match what the surveyor marked in 1990. The lot was split off from a piece for family property at that time. Now my cousin has built a "reclaimed" fence along the side and it is on my property IF I get to own the property described in the deed. The difference in the survey measurements on one side is 1.6 feet (or .6 feet according to the second survey) and on the back side it is 4.49 feet (or 4.15 feet on the second one). The length of the property line is 250 feet. So we are talking about a considerable amount of land.
I retained an attorney when I had the first survey done to get the dilapadated fence removed. The second survey was the lawyer's suggestion to back-up the first one.
Which will stand up in court...the measurements in my deed or what a surveyor put on the ground???

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RAV

55 months ago

Gagal in Southwest Brevard Cnty, Florida said: HELP!! I have had two surveys done in six months. They don't even agree!! My deed has measurements that do not match what the surveyor marked in 1990. The lot was split off from a piece for family property at that time. Now my cousin has built a "reclaimed" fence along the side and it is on my property IF I get to own the property described in the deed. The difference in the survey measurements on one side is 1.6 feet (or .6 feet according to the second survey) and on the back side it is 4.49 feet (or 4.15 feet on the second one). The length of the property line is 250 feet. So we are talking about a considerable amount of land.
I retained an attorney when I had the first survey done to get the dilapadated fence removed. The second survey was the lawyer's suggestion to back-up the first one.
Which will stand up in court...the measurements in my deed or what a surveyor put on the ground???

The Warrantee Deed. Provided that the descriptions are in fact Bearing and Distance from a point. If they describe features or are ambiguous then that can be a problem.

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wtd in California

49 months ago

Just a word on adverse possession. lots of people get this backwards.
Heri, you have no adverse possession claim - your neighbor does, or may have
in the future, since your neighbor encroaches 2" onto your property. He may
after the statutorally required period of time make a claim to that 2". He may or may not do so. If he does it would be up to you to prove that you took notice of the encroachment, or potential encroachment and were aware of it and allowed it to stand. By doing this you simply state that he's on your property and you know it and that you give up no claim on the property. If you wish to protect yourself against future adverse possession claims, you simply have to send your neighbor a letter, provably delivered, that says that you are aware of the encroachment and allow it, but give up no claim to the property.

So, here's a preview of what's about to happen here, taking into account what I've mentioned above and you latest post - you'll find a lawyer, probably not a good one, since there's no money in this case, and he'll charge you somewhere north of 125 bucks and he'll send the letter I mentioned above. Nothing else happens.

If it's worth it to you to go to this trouble and expense to protect a 2" strip of your lot that you're not using anyways, have at it I guess, won't change anything worhtwhile, it simply introduces a third problem to your situation and solves neither of the two existing problems.

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wtd in California

49 months ago

Your two problems are -
1) Your neighbor has made an unsubstantiated claim that your are encroaching on his property.
Solution: Tell him to put up or shut up. NOTE: Waving a survey map around is not 'putting up'.

2) Your neighbor's runoff and lack of maintenance of his property are causing damage to your property.
Solution: Call the local code enforcement department and report the problem.

It's really no more complicated than that - running it off into the weeds with surveys, attorneys, encroachment and adverse possession claims and counter claims doesn't really provide any benefit to anyone and doesn't actually solve the problem.

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Heri in Kenner, Louisiana

49 months ago

wtd in California said: Your two problems are -
1) Your neighbor has made an unsubstantiated claim that your are encroaching on his property.
Solution: Tell him to put up or shut up. NOTE: Waving a survey map around is not 'putting up'.

2) Your neighbor's runoff and lack of maintenance of his property are causing damage to your property.
Solution: Call the local code enforcement department and report the problem.

It's really no more complicated than that - running it off into the weeds with surveys, attorneys, encroachment and adverse possession claims and counter claims doesn't really provide any benefit to anyone and doesn't actually solve the problem.

to: wtd in California

WOW, you really get it. No wonder I appreciate your comments so much. You are terrific. The idea of getting an attorney to write a letter as was suggested by someone else in this forum is the only way I can think of to make them "put up or shut up" since ALL communication with them has been denied by them. Would you suggest that I just take the fence down, leave it down, and let the chips fall where they may? (That works for me.) I have permission from code to do just that. Secondly, code has seen firsthand, the intrusion of soil and water onto my property. Should I wait until they take action? IF, they do indeed take action.

You are really terrific. I have been concerned about all the what-ifs and possible reprocussions as it appears they are adamant that I have no control over my own property and fence and will surely attempt to retailiate. I am trying to be prepared for the fallout and have my ducks lined up before I am left swinging in the wind.

As far as the adverse possession... If my surveyor was drunk or something when he did my survey and I actually am encroaching upon THEIR property, I was considering that as a possible remedy for me....to claim any encroachment by me as not encroachment but adverse possession.

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Heri in Kenner, Louisiana

49 months ago

wtd in California said: Your two problems are -
1) Your neighbor has made an unsubstantiated claim that your are encroaching on his property.
Solution: Tell him to put up or shut up. NOTE: Waving a survey map around is not 'putting up'.

2) Your neighbor's runoff and lack of maintenance of his property are causing damage to your property.
Solution: Call the local code enforcement department and report the problem.

It's really no more complicated than that - running it off into the weeds with surveys, attorneys, encroachment and adverse possession claims and counter claims doesn't really provide any benefit to anyone and doesn't actually solve the problem.

Totally AGREE. The fence will need to come down at some point as it is old. I do not want to supply them with another fence to destroy. I don't need to be fenced. No pets, pool, kids, etc.

What would your next move be if you were me?

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mateau in Tampa, Florida

49 months ago

The job of the Town Code enfocement is to enforce planning zoning and building codes. The will not mediate problems between neighbors. That is not why they are paid. That is NOT their job. Go ahead ask them. Their job is to ensure that Town Residents build and occupy their property according to the Codes and Ordinances established by the Town and State.

Your problems with your neighbor is NOT a Town or State Code or Ordinance probelm. It is a legal problem.

I am advising you to see competeant legal advice for several reasons.

1. You have too much to loose if you don't.
2. This is a website where anyone can render an opinion including myself. Many folks have rendered opinions however the most dangerous are those that tell you not to seek professional help. You do need to speak to an attorney.
3. Go back and reread opnion number 1.

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wtd in California

49 months ago

Heri in Kenner, Louisiana said: Totally AGREE. The fence will need to come down at some point as it is old. I do not want to supply them with another fence to destroy. I don't need to be fenced. No pets, pool, kids, etc.

What would your next move be if you were me?

Get whatever permits or city blessing is required, if any, and knock the fence down.

RE: Problem #1 -
Forget encroachment, adverse possession and everything else, those things were brought up WAY too early and just confuddle things at this point.
Before anything else happens regarding any of those things your neighbor has to do something other than wave around a document and say you're encroaching.

Your neighbor can say anything he wants - means about as much as if he said your dog was ugly. You'd probably tell him to go soak his head, you wouldn't start trying to prove your dog WASN'T ugly :-) Same here. At this point your neighbor is an annoyance, not much you can do about that.

The other suggestions you've gotten here might be very good suggestions IF -
1) your neighbor pursues his claim.
2) your neighbor's claim prevails.

I make no such assumptions - I'm just making suggestions based on what's happened so far and how this is going.

Here's pretty much the whole thing in a 'nut-shell' -
There can be no action for adverse possession if the boundary is in question.
There can be no encroachment if the boundary is in question.

Your neighbor is threatening to bring the boundary into question.
You have to see whether he does or not. Meanwhile nothing to do but wait.
Have some iced tea, it's hot out today :-)

RE: Problem #2 - Follow up with the building department and find out if they're doing anything about your neighbor's runoff onto your property.

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wtd in California

49 months ago

mateau in Tampa, Florida said: The job of the Town Code enfocement is to enforce planning zoning and building codes. The will not mediate problems between neighbors. That is not why they are paid. That is NOT their job. Go ahead ask them. Their job is to ensure that Town Residents build and occupy their property according to the Codes and Ordinances established by the Town and State.
...

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It was never suggested that a boundary dispute was to be resolved by a building inspector. It was suggested that this was the appropriate solution to the water runoff problem.
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mateau in Tampa, Florida said:
Your problems with your neighbor is NOT a Town or State Code or Ordinance probelm. It is a legal problem.

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At this point there is no boundary problem at all or any sort of a legal problem.
At the moment, there is only an idle threat by a nasty neighbor.
Personally I don't see the need for a lawyer to deal with that, but of course it's up to Heri.
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Heri in Kenner, Louisiana

49 months ago

wtd in California said: ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It was never suggested that a boundary dispute was to be resolved by a building inspector. It was suggested that this was the appropriate solution to the water runoff problem.
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At this point there is no boundary problem at all or any sort of a legal problem.
At the moment, there is only an idle threat by a nasty neighbor.
Personally I don't see the need for a lawyer to deal with that, but of course it's up to Heri.
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To Tampa and California
I did not mean to cause a rif between the two people that are trying to help me. Sorry. I think all three of us agree that any potential boundary line dispute is outside the realm and responsibility of any local code enforcement agency. That is a legal matter for the courts to decide. Code enforcement was brought into this by the neighbors, not me. The only involvement I have had with code enforcement was to request a copy of the complaint filed against me by the neighbors. I appreciate both points of view given to me. I really am glad to have your input.

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Greg in Del Mar, California

49 months ago

Stephen in Tupelo, Mississippi said: HELP!!! Just bought 6.63 acres of land in the country. My new neighbors are complaining that I am on his property by about 50 ft. which will come out to about half an acre in the long run. Well we just had the land surveyed about 4 months ago. We paid $2500 an acre. The section that they are complaining about is worthless just an old drive with a huge ditch in it. The taxes are cheap about $45 a year. But if the surveyor got it wrong by over 50ft. what can I do? If it is that far off it cost me about $1250 to much. He says he has a survey that shows the line where he says and I have one where I say it is. HELP!!

You're crazy if you spent nearly $14,000 to have a small 6.6 acre lot survey. I had my two plots (3 and 3.82) done for a little over $1,000.

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Heri in Kenner, Louisiana

49 months ago

I do not understand the responder's money amount mentioned. I understand you to say that if your survey is wrong, you paid for land that you did not get. The first thing I would do since the survey was done recently is contact your surveyor and notify him of the discrepancy and have him explain or verify his findings. I think I read somewhere that you have a window of time that you can hold the surveyor to explanation or verification of his work.

Secondly, you mention that the neighbor SAYS he has a survey that contradicts your survey. Has the neighbor shown you his survey? Ask him to show it to you. Get the date the neighbor's survey was done and the name of the company. Have YOUR surveyor contact the neighbor's surveryor and let them put their heads together to clarify the issue.

I have a similar issue with a neighbor as you have probably read. My neighbor CLAIMS to have a survey that contradicts mine but has not produced it nor shown it to me so I do not know when or by whom the contradictory survey was performed or it one even exists.

Hopefully for you asking your neighbor to see his may work for you. My neighbors are not willing to communicate with me.

Good luck and keep posting to let us know how things progress.

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Heri in Kenner, Louisiana

49 months ago

wtd in California said: ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It was never suggested that a boundary dispute was to be resolved by a building inspector . It was suggested that this was the appropriate solution to the water runoff problem.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
At this point there is no boundary problem at all or any sort of a legal problem.
At the moment, there is only an idle threat by a nasty neighbor.
Personally I don't see the need for a lawyer to deal with that, but of course it's up to Heri.
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You are SUPER smart and have GREAT advice. Using Tampa's advice, I consulted with an attorney (FREE) consult only to have them offer to sue on my behalf which would cost me a fortune. Ten fold or better more than the cost of the stupid fence. How ridiculous. Only sought FREE legal advice in an attempt to cover ALL the bases but you are so spot on with everything you said. You are extremely insightful and helpful. I will let you know what happens as time will tell. Just as an aside... the attorney was unwilling to send a letter or mediate, only wanted to sue so he could make BIG money. (And would only take a case on an hourly rate.) If it does come down to a legal battle, he will not be getting my money... I will seek different counsel.

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Huntingohio1 in Mansfield, Ohio

39 months ago

Joel in Morrow, Georgia said: Surveying today is more accurate than it was 20-30 years ago. As technology advances, so does surveying. You can achieve better results with todays surveying tools as apposed to 20 years ago...with or without GPS.

I'm sure their are companies out there that will "tweak" the bounds of a property to fit the clients needs. This is not common though as its very unprofessional...not to mention illegal.

You'd be surprised how a better survey can effect a properties acreage. A few seconds/minutes 100ths/tenths +/- can go a long ways.

We just had a neighbor in WV do a survey and he was breaking up his farm into 5 ac parcels. his surveyor made an easement that was never in either of our deeds and is TAKING our land to do so, is that legal? the terms used in the deed reads right of way up by the main road (fine) but in the back area of the farm where the dispute is it reads by way of, It goes back to the 1800's property line is not wide enough for an easement. Surveyor change line in couple of areas my more than 30 feet.

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Robin12rr in Frankfort, Kentucky

27 months ago

I have a new neighbor that had their property surveyed to build a fence in the backyard. According to their results I am losing up to 30 feet of my side yard. Our backyards are pie shaped because of living in a cul de sac. According to the subdivision plot this is not the correct line. The neighbors said they were expecting the property line to be in the place where we have considered it to be for years, but after getting the survey they got a big bonus from my yard that they are excited to have. They are going to re-check with their surveyor, but if they get the same results they plan on going forward with the fence. They said the surveyor will stand by their work, but how can they give away my property? What do I do? Does the subdivision map hold any weight? (it matches my version of the property line)

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Heri in Kenner, Louisiana

27 months ago

If your state has an adverse possession law, even if their survey is correct, you may still claim the property that has been considered as yours if you have openly and notoriously used it as yours for the required time frame.

I would not just concede your property to another without first finding out your rights. Do NOT allow a fence to be installed until this is sorted out.

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mendocino777 in Fort Bragg, California

17 months ago

Not sure how to make a new post here ? so try reply .
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
CALIFORNIA
A 10 Acre undeveloped Property has had a registered Survey preformed 2015 that says my Registered Survey preformed 2004 is wrong by some several feet approximately 10 to 15 feet off
along our property line .
This New Survey places the boundary right in the middle of My Private road my access road that leads to a county road.
This undeveloped Property has a Title insured undeveloped access along a State highway in CA.
New owner wants to use my private road as a access and to obtain a permit to develop the property Rather then pay a costly amount to develop a access at their Title Insured access along the state highway Previously applied for but then withdrawn by Previous property owner.
My Questions :
(1) How should I proceed ? I expect I can ask my Surveyor how the survey's differ and what could be wrong ?
(2) If my Survey is wrong how can I hold my Surveyor accountable ?
(3) the boundary line in question is some 300 feet long so some say 12.5 feet off from the previous Survey would that be a + or - Normal difference in measurements ?
thanks for any help

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