Age discrimination as a leagal secretary.

I went to work as a regular executive assistant in the nonprofit sector and was not only treated 100% better, the money was wayyy better and the people were nicer. Oh, and the work was more mentally stimulating. My non profit executive assistant job was far more prestigious than any of the paralegal/legal assistant jobs at Fortune500 firms.

SO TRUE!!!!!!!!!!!!! Its over for me - I'll never go back to a law job. I'll starve first.

I just reapplied for food stamps. So I'm worrying again. On the other hand, peanut butte and jelly sandwiches really keep me from overeating.

mary in Tampa, Florida said: I just reapplied for food stamps. So I'm worrying again. On the other hand, peanut butte and jelly sandwiches really keep me from overeating.

I am being harassed by a law firm over an unpaid chargedoff American Express credit card. Their attorney has been threatening a lawsuit and then getting summary judgment against any answer I may give and said in his letter "we will get a judgement against you that will subject to future asset examinations, garnishments to the maximum amount permitted by law and may prevent you from obtaining employment in the future".

Mary - long time no hear! email me.

there is a wonderful joke about summer interns.....a law school graduate goes to work for a law firm. He loves it. All the parties, all the help he wants, all the partners listening to everything he says...in short heaven. So he accepts their offer and his first day, he walks in to find people packing up their offices after getting laid off, and being told by management that he would be in charge of closing out the firm and that, oh by the way, after he closed the firm, he would be laid off as well. So what looks great on the outside is certainly not the same as the inside. Find a legal job (by all means) if you want to but please, please be aware that looks aren't not the way to judge these firms. Ask to talk to someone who has been working at the firm, ask for honest answers. If they look shifty then they are probably telling you something

Darn good information! That happened to me. All looked good on the outside but once I got in there everyone was crazier than hoot owls. Too late once I took the job. You really can't tell - its almost a turkey shoot in the last few years as to what will happen once you're in. Thanks for the insight.

I have been a legal secretary/assistant for the last 20 years. I was laid-off from a large prestigious firm about 2 years ago. Yes, I do believe there is age discrimination. I did find work at one firm where I literally heard the secretaries breathing heavy, and panting throughout the office. I thought is this place worth risking my health. I strongly believe secretaries are being taken advantage of. Because of the economic situation, secretaries are being forced to work for four to six attorneys, and I believe, the law firms are taking advantage of the situation, not only in literally working the legal secretary to "death," but paying a low salary dated to 1999, which I have proof of in a news clipping I had saved. In the several interviews I have gone on, I am amazed what they are paying. The cost of living is going up, and the salaries are going down. It does not make any sense, other than the corporations are getting more greedy. Good luck to all legal secretaries out there, but please do think about your health before you take on that "sounds so promising job." Working for attorneys is a highly stressful job, and if you get an attorney who is verbal, demanding, and inpatient, "Beware".

What are we to do? So many of us are now unemployed and we don't stand a chance because of our age. I, for one, was not ready to retire at 55. All that experience that we have and "know how" and for what?

You are correct about being careful of what job you take but you don't know what you are getting into until you accept (if you are lucky enough to get something offered).

I was wondering about the age discrimination myself and I have read the comments above. It seems to me that say for example if you choose to go to school for that same year for a licensed practical nurse program or to become a Beautician (roughly 18 months) those would also be considered by definition "dead end" , or "bottom of the totem pole". If you really wanted to look at it that way. Unless of course you wanted to continue your education for a registered nurse postion or to get your master in hair design. In support staff postions like legal assistant, even Nursing assistants, we work for other people. Many jobs are like this and we are ofter all overworked and underpaid , seemingly undervalued , underappreciated. Teachers feel this way very often.
I wish I could have been a lawyer,, a Doctor,, but Im 43,, and I probably won't be able to do that. So,, If I can be a legal secratary and I REAlly enjoy my work,, then HEY THATS REALLY AWESOME FOR ME. If you don't enjoy your work , Then absolutely find something else .
But please everyone do me a favor and realize something if you couldn't get to school to be a doctor lawyer or those BIGTIME CAREERS. Guess what . We are in positions of support staff, Well, unless you wanna open your own buisness that is. And that is alot of hard work too.
Good luck everyone . And God Bless . Smiles!!!!

Grant013 in Astoria, New York said: I went to work as a regular executive assistant in the nonprofit sector and was not only treated 100% better, the money was wayyy better and the people were nicer. Oh, and the work was more mentally stimulating. My non profit executive assistant job was far more prestigious than any of the paralegal/legal assistant jobs at Fortune500 firms.

Hey Grant- Did you, by any chance formerly work at LM (I won't use the whole firm name---I haven't seen anyone else use a name, even though I only have great things to say about this particular firm)? Anyway, if you did I think you're a former co-worker and I'd LOVE to reconnect with you, based on what you've said here AND the fact that I know you to be a very nice person. You can hit me up on my rarely used, "throwaway" email account...stephife@hotmail.com.

hc:
Write in when or if you get downsized or replaced with someone who will work cheaper and then attempt to find another legal job, never mind "any other job"!

HC: What Jennifer in St. Pete said. Also...

I think it's important to point out that even though LVNs/LPNs are the "bottom of the totem pole" in a hospital or clinical setting, the doctors in charge of the facilities realize that LVNs/LPNs are actual professionals with medical training whom ultimately fulfill a necessary role in the treatment of patients. After all, someone has to empty the bedpans, and it's certainly not going to be the doctors, nurse practitioners, and RNs. Even though the role is lowly, it is still considered necessary to patient care. Not so with attorneys, who think that every legal assistant/paralegal/LS is as interchangeable as office furniture, and that they can always find someone who will do the job cheaper.

Secondly, I resent the implication that people who practice as legal support do so because they "couldn't get to school ... for a BIGTIME career." Some of us happen to be very educated, and hold bachelors degrees, masters degrees, post-graduate certificates, and sometimes even LAW DEGREES that inure their own prestige. Nobody is complaining about hard work here. We are discussing our experiences of disrespect and unlawful discrimination.

Attorneys are consistently taught in law school to look down upon those who choose not to join the bar, and their behavior toward support workers in law firms is tolerated due to the echo chamber that is most Executive Committees. In case you haven't noticed, most firm management is very traditional, and no fresh ideas can penetrate the willful disregard of those whom they consider their social "lessers." I am just as valuable a member of society as any attorney, and I refuse to work with attorneys who attempt to dismiss or marginalize my professional accomplishments as a result of their own insecurities. I respectfully suggest that you give that concept consideration before you write another "blame-the-victim" post.

Mezosub in Long Beach, California said: HC: What Jennifer in St. Pete said. Also...

Attorneys are consistently taught in law school to look down upon those who choose not to join the bar, and their behavior toward support workers in law firms is tolerated due to the echo chamber that is most Executive Committees. In case you haven't noticed, most firm management is very traditional, and no fresh ideas can penetrate the willful disregard of those whom they consider their social "lessers." I am just as valuable a member of society as any attorney, and I refuse to work with attorneys who attempt to dismiss or marginalize my professional accomplishments as a result of their own insecurities. I respectfully suggest that you give that concept consideration before you write another "blame-the-victim" post.

Excellent post, and unfortunately those types of attorneys give the profession a very bad name. I have been fortunate to work with many attorneys who were considerate and valued their support, but I have encountered many toxic personalities in this profession. Unfortunately, Law has a tendency to attract A type personalities.

Aside from support staff being abused at some firms, I have witnessed at one of my jobs that if an attorney graduated from a TTT (known in the industry as "third tier toilet-bowl law school"), that attorney gets dumped on by the senior associates. As Mezosub pointed out, the US Legal Field is in turmoil now. The ABA has done an absolutely miserable job monitoring this field over the past 25 years.

DLP, I'm glad you mentioned the dress code.

Many years ago, before I began stringent enforcement of my "no female attorneys" rule, I worked supporting a male partner, a male associate, and a female associate. The female associate was constantly questioning my wardrobe choices. When I would come to her office, she was always asking, "Are you cold? Why are you wearing your jacket in the office?" As if my Theory suitjacket were actual outerwear. I would always reply back, "This is work, Ursula, not a fashion show. We should focus on our work and stop asking irrelevant questions."

The trouble was that I dressed much more formally (better) than she did, and it bothered her when clients and their representatives would visit the office and assume when they saw us together that I was the attorney, and she was the assistant, based on our attire and the fact that I was older and more experienced than she.

Just as DLP described, attorneys can be some of the most vain, petty, vicious creatures who ever drew the breath of life if they suspect that their assistant or paralegal's outstanding performance is making them look lazy and slovenly by comparison. As educated as they are, some of them just never learn.

To: Mezosub
Hooray for you - I won't work for another female attorney ever again. I'll sleep in my car first!!

I did not say that the people on here were unintelligent and could not get into law school , nor did I even imply that.
I did say if you did not get to law school. Meaning , as of yet (as in my situation) Instead of assuming you could have asked instead of attacking me.

The original poster asked about age discrimation and if she thought would be okay to go into this field.

It seems everyone is discouraging her based on all bad experiences. I have had bad experiences in the healthcare field , but I would not tell someone to not go into it based on that, because I think that if we based our decisions on only the bad experiences of others we all would never take any risks and work at mcdonalds for the rest of our lives.

So I say if the job description fits your passions. Go for it!!!

There a three methods of wisdom

Reflection which is the highest

Limitation which is the easiest

Experience which is the bitterest ---

I have already been told, by teachers and teacher aids, that the school district isn't hiring older people. Florida is going through a lot of changes in hiring and firing teachers, teacher contracts. In my county, for this year, to get to go to Teacher Interview Day, the requirment is a Bachelor's in Education. (I.E., no alternative course, no older new teachers).

reneeca in West Los Angeles, California said: I can't imagine what people are doing wrong to have so many bad experiences with attorneys. I have been doing this over 15 years and have only met TWO bad attorneys. One was VERY bad but he had substance abuse issues and really needed to be in anger management. But most of them were absolutely great. They treated me like a friend, I went to their parties, got nice bonuses, etc. I have to wonder what kind of attitude you are bringing to work with you to have so many bad experiences?

I will say that I think small firms are the way to go. Solos will treat you like gold if you're competent because you make or break their business. It is easier for your contributions to get ignored/overlooked in a larger firm.

My goodness gracious. What a deal you were dealt. Congratulations. 43 Years in the legal field and I have seen just about all the personalities Freud cculd have imagined. Put them all in a brown bag and pull one out and "it" (generic for he or she) will have the same bad traits of any of the others. I'm not bitter. I'm simply HONEST in the realization that the legal field attracts people with a Better-Than-Thou attitude and the track to partnership makes it worse.

Staff members in any position are dispensable commodities. Attorney to secretary ratios have skyrocketed. Why? The Almighty Dollar. If an expense can be cut to enhance the Partner's cut, they will find it. Assigning five attorneys for one secretary is insane. But then, the attorneys complain that you aren't getting the work done. So, because you are part of the old guard earning old guard salary, the firm let's you go under the caption of poor performance. They hire eye candy at half the price and half the brains to take over your seat.

What does that leave you to look forward to? Age discrimination in the interviewing process and offers at 1/3 the salary you were making before greed took over the ratio system.

Della's comment hit the mark. Hope everyone reads it and takes notice of what you are eventualy in for if you choose this profession. For gosh sake, stay in school if you are already there and go back to school for something (anything) else but legal support.

Damn, that was good. When I was working at Ruden, and the attorney I worked for (as literally his right-hand man) for seven years was being bumped up to Partner. I heard all about how important it was for him (from him and management. I asked what was in it for me, if I would get a raise. They acted as if I was fu'g crazy. I did 80 percent is his drafting (big, big drafting). I did not get a raise. In fact, because of the whole office situation, the big attorney he worked with, HIS SECRETARY got big pay, and I got the leftover pay. You've heard about that situation before. You get the idea.

I've been thinking about that interview you described, DLP, and the only thing I can guess is that the shareholder who interviewed you said he "thought you were a client," did so as code for "I think you're overdressed for this interview."

Like I said, attorneys are vain and petty to a fault, and if they think that a candidate doesn't dress the part at an interview, either by being too formal or too casual, they'll just reject that person and move on to the next. Being dressed formally, as you were, indicates not only that you are serious about your interest in the position, but that you expect serious pay, so you can afford to dress that way every day. The partner was probably worried that paying you what you're worth would have impacted his own bonus, so he decided to keep looking for the "eye candy with half the brains" so he could pay her half the price. And in that case, yes, it is always a "she."

I don't know about you, but I've also noticed that the last ones to be hired and the first ones to be laid off in law firms are middle-aged women, especially the single and childless ones. They specifically look to hire single moms of young kids, knowing that those are the ones who will work for the least pay and who tend to be the least educated. They specifically prey on and exploit women who don't have any other options, and avoid the childless high-achievers, knowing that if they don't give a bonus or the expected working conditions, those people will just quit and find a better job at higher pay.

I feel you about following all the rules for being appropriately attired for an interview, DLP.

I guess what I was suggesting was not that you did anything wrong, but that you picked up a hater for doing everything right and making it look "too easy." If there is one thing attorneys cannot stand, it is to see one of their "Social Lessers" making what appears to be an effortless first impression. In their weird logic, they reason that if he has no problem looking razor-sharp for an interview, right down to the very last detail, just imagine what his work product will be like.

And we can't have a non-attorney on our team who turns in such sharp-looking work, because it will make the attorneys' messy papers, improperly formatted and riddled with spelling and gramatical errors, look so much worse.

Mezosub in Mission Viejo, California said: In their weird logic, they reason that if he has no problem looking razor-sharp for an interview, right down to the very last detail, just imagine what his work product will be like.

And we can't have a non-attorney on our team who turns in such sharp-looking work, because it will make the attorneys' messy papers, improperly formatted and riddled with spelling and gramatical errors, look so much worse.

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You really hit the nail on the head with the above. After 30 years, I have now left the legal field and am back in school full time. Besides attorneys who fit your description, you'll sometimes get flak from support staff who, if truth be known, don't have a clue about procedures and software functions. Very rarely do you find a firm that doesn't have people with "attitudes" that make working at law firms an incredible drag.

Mezosub in Long Beach, California said: HC: What Jennifer in St. Pete said. Also...

I think it's important to point out that even though LVNs/LPNs are the "bottom of the totem pole" in a hospital or clinical setting, the doctors in charge of the facilities realize that LVNs/LPNs are actual professionals with medical training whom ultimately fulfill a necessary role in the treatment of patients. After all, someone has to empty the bedpans, and it's certainly not going to be the doctors, nurse practitioners, and RNs. .....
Attorneys are consistently taught in law school to look down upon those who choose not to join the bar,

I respectfully suggest that you give that concept consideration before you write another "blame-the-victim" post.

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1. LVNs and LPNs do not empty the bedpans; that's usually done by nurse's aides and/or orderlies.
2. Attorneys do not learn to look down on non-attorney staff in law school. Attorneys who do so get that from their own neurotic perceptions.
3. Research a little more carefully before posting this kind of mis-information.

____________________

I lost a job prospect for that exact reason. I gave all the right answers at an interview and the female attorney didn't like that one bit!

Gave up legal recruiters years ago. Find your own jobs. Their interest is in their client, the firm.

Worst thing about using a recruiter, if you said the wrong thing or they didn't like you at the interview, and you get bad feelback, you feel like absolute schmuck and a looser.

Sorry to hear that a recruiter made you feel less than you are. Think of it this way. A recruiter is like a real estate agent. They are IN IT FOR THE SALE/commission and their client is the Seller/lawfirm that has the listing, definitely not the Buyer/you who's looking for a new place to "reside". They are not doing it for YOU. That's why no one should count totally on anyone else for job leads or employment services. Use the internet to learn ways to network yourself. Email, Email, Email your resume to firms with a short message that you are available and would appreciate your resume being considered when a position becomes available. There are plenty of ways to network without setting yourself up for another person to hurt your feelings.

Hi Deborah James,

I didn't mean to imply that LVNs/LPNs literally "empty the bedpans" in hospital settings, as if that's all they do. The larger point that I was attempting to communicate is that even physicians realize that the hospital and clinical settings in which they work would not be possible without LVNs and LPNs, or their counterparts who have specific medical training in clinical sanitation procedures and prevention of nosocomial infections. Not so with attorneys, who seem to think that any person off the street can be a functional legal assistant.

As for attorneys' social attitudes toward staff, I acknowledge the possiblity that perhaps not all of those ideas are learned in law school. But they don't spring, fully-formed, from a person's own psyche. There have to be structural reinforcements for those kinds of exclusionary, "us v. them" attitudes, for example, the standard policy in most firms that there is a separate holiday party for the staff than for the attorneys. Those types of policies are a form of de facto exclusion that serve to create a physical and social separation between attorneys and non-attorneys, and convey the message that "they are not the right sort of people for attorneys to be seen socializing with."

Mezosub in Long Beach, California said: Hi Deborah James,

I didn't mean to imply that LVNs/LPNs literally "empty the bedpans" in hospital settings, as if that's all they do. The larger point that I was attempting to communicate is that even physicians realize that the hospital and clinical settings in which they work would not be possible without LVNs and LPNs, or their counterparts who have specific medical training in clinical sanitation procedures and prevention of nosocomial infections. Not so with attorneys, who seem to think that any person off the street can be a functional legal assistant.

As for attorneys' social attitudes toward staff, I acknowledge the possiblity that perhaps not all of those ideas are learned in law school. But they don't spring, fully-formed, from a person's own psyche. There have to be structural reinforcements for those kinds of exclusionary, "us v. them" attitudes, for example, the standard policy in most firms that there is a separate holiday party for the staff than for the attorneys. Those types of policies are a form of de facto exclusion that serve to create a physical and social separation between attorneys and non-attorneys, and convey the message that "they are not the right sort of people for attorneys to be seen socializing with."

_______________________________________________________________________________________________

I understood your comment. I was a lab tech in a hospital. Again, I point out that bedpans are taken care of by others, not LVNs and LPNs. I have worked at large and small firms and never heard of separate holiday parties. I am old school and do not mix business with pleasure. I don't come to work to "socialize" and prefer not to spend my off time with co-workers, whether they are attorneys or not. What has never ceased to amaze me in the legal field are the numbers of incompetent people (attorneys and non-attorneys). The worst offenders are usually the arrogant.

Mezosub in Long Beach, California said: Hi Deborah James,

I didn't mean to imply that LVNs/LPNs literally "empty the bedpans" in hospital settings, as if that's all they do. The larger point that I was attempting to communicate is that even physicians realize that the hospital and clinical settings in which they work would not be possible without LVNs and LPNs, or their counterparts who have specific medical training in clinical sanitation procedures and prevention of nosocomial infections. Not so with attorneys, who seem to think that any person off the street can be a functional legal assistant.

Couldn't disagree more with this. First off, my mother was a nurse and she started off many years ago as an LPN while attending school as an RN. There are doctors who do look down upon thier support staff. The medical profession, as well as the legal profession and any other profession for that matter, is not without abusive personalities, although there are some fields that are likely to attract more toxic personalities over other fields.

As far as law firms considering anyone off the street can function as a legal assistant, wrong again, at least where I live in NY. Pretty much most of the firms in NYC and Westchester County(despite the size) prefer candidates with either experience, having a bachelors, and an ABA certificate with a high GPA. Some firms would consider recent grads, however top tier/Ivy UGC grads are prefered over candidates who graduated from lower ranked schools. Sometimes I do spot an occassional ad advertising that the law office is willing to train, but those positions are usually for entry level: receptionist, file clerk, or secretary.

I also concur with DLP and Deborah, I worked at several places and there were never two seperate holiday parties given for support staff and attorneys. I never heard of anything like that before. Maybe during 70's, but certainly not in today's business climate.

I acknowledge that I appear to be the only one who has experienced the particular situation of separate holiday parties, or, in the case of a firm where I worked in Texas, separate presentations by United Way.

I'll never forget the time that charity representatives made a presentation to attorneys, encouraging them to donate to United Way so that they could fund a hospice, and for staff, the presentation was so they could fund a domestic violence shelter. As if to imply that attorneys don't experience domestic violence (or any other criminal act) personally.

However, these are my experiences, and I related them. Just because one didn't have the same experiences does not mean that they didn't happen, nor does it mean that those experiences are invalid.

While I grant that there may be firms (perhaps on the East Coast) where declining to participate in firm parties or other social functions is not acknowledged, here in Southern California, saying no to such events will start the gossip mill with attorneys assessing that person as "not a team player." Similarly, regardless of how holidays are observed elsewhere, the tradition of separate holiday parties is one that endures here on the west coast.

Your mileage may vary.

Separate holiday parties is found On the East Coast. I have worked for "powdered wig LARGE firms" and mid-size firms. Matters not. Separate holiday parties for staff and attorneys is the norm. I've been told by policy makers that doing so discourages fraternizing between the groups. As if that really makes a difference.

Anyway, as far as the United Way pitches are concerned I've personally never seen the bifurcated approach. What I have seen is a friendly rivalry between staff and attorneys to see which group could raise the most money. DUH!!

Della Street in Marietta, Georgia said: Separate holiday parties is found On the East Coast. I have worked for "powdered wig LARGE firms" and mid-size firms. Matters not. Separate holiday parties for staff and attorneys is the norm. I've been told by policy makers that doing so discourages fraternizing between the groups. As if that really makes a difference.

Um...I live on the East Coast and have worked in NYC for most of my career. I also know people who have and still work in Big Law and I can tell you separate holiday parties DO NOT exist. The office/admin manager may take its support staff out to a separate luncheon, but the annual shin dig everyone is invited too (of course this does not stop people in splitting up into their own little sub-groups). It's also considered as an insult if someone, regardless of their position, opts out in going to the annual party.

I'm willing to provide names of Big Law firms that I know of which do not exercise that ridiculous practice, are you willing to do the same?

And that United Way drive, c'mon that's making a mountain out of a molehill isn't it? One firm I worked at pitted legal teams against the other for friendly competition to see which team would raise the most money for charity. It was for a good cause, not judging which lawyer or staff person was more superior.

Sorry with my last post; I didn't mean to come off disrespectful or mocking anyone. I don't think you should take the United Way drive as an "us vs. them" point of view. It was probably a plan divised by the UA rep and was not intended to slight anyone.

Tricia in Destrehan, Louisiana said: I'm about to be 38 and going to a community college to become a certified legal secretary. It will take me about a year. I have no ambitions to be a paralegal. I have read there is age discrimination out there in this field and I'm wondering if anyone could elaborate on this. Does anyone have any comments?

I'm wondering if I'm too old to do this and if I should look into another field.

I've been in the field forever. In Oct. of 2009 I lost my job at the age of 61. Had always had terrific reviews, no complaints and all of a sudden was told "it was not working out". This is a large firm (over 100 attorneys). There were five of us (over the age of 50) that were let go in rapid successon. Age discrimination? Oh just try to prove it. So here I was at the age of 60 and on unemployment for the first time in my life. My husband is retired, and I was the one carrying the health insurance. It was imperative I get back to work. So after the initial shock and feeling sorry for myself period, I started looking for work in a depressed job market.

It took me 6 months, but I took a job at a well respected firm looking for someone to take a position for a "difficult" attorney. I was told this right up front. I was scared, but it wasn't the first time I worked for "difficult" attorneys. This was one of the toughest positions I ever took on, but after another 6 months of working very hard on this new relationship, we have finally formed a good working relationship. I will be at this firm for a year next month, and I am thankful to have been fortunate enough to find a job at age 60!

Bottom line, working in this profession is not easy. Be aware of that if you choose to proceed. I was not in a position to change professions at this point in my life. There was no time in my situation to go back to school. I needed to get back to work! Don't think I would do it again if I had a choice in the matter.

Tricia, I was an executive assistant for 16 yrs. in a corporate environment. I have now been a legal secretary for 13 years in NYC. I've worked for mid-size and large firms in NYC. I've always worked for nice attorneys at the "partner level". When you work up to partner level you do make more $$. Another thing is, when you work at a high level alot of times you just sit at the desk and do minimal work just answer phones, open mail. They just want to know yuor there if they need something. Some attorneys are self sufficient and don't require alot of their secretary but need them sitting at the desk for other stuff. I've had this happen to me with quite a few positions that I have held. I make a very good salary over $70,000.
KS, New York City

Tricia in Destrehan, Louisiana said: I'm about to be 38 and going to a community college to become a certified legal secretary. It will take me about a year. I have no ambitions to be a paralegal. I have read there is age discrimination out there in this field and I'm wondering if anyone could elaborate on this. Does anyone have any comments?

I'm wondering if I'm too old to do this and if I should look into another field.

Read the majority of the posts here. Don't waste your precious time going into the legal field.

Jennifer in Saint Petersburg, Florida said: Read the majority of the posts here. Don't waste your precious time going into the legal field.

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I wholeheartedly agree with this posting. There are a few decent law firms and decent attorneys; but on the whole, law firms (whether large or small) are a tremendous waste of time. They are inhabited by some of the rudest and (hate to burst their bubble of delusion) STUPIDEST people on the face of the earth.

Hi all,

I have some good news. I just wanted to bring some hope on this board for everyone. I decided to take the proverbial bull by the horns and started volunteering. I have been using my paralegal skills at Legal Aid. I have been there since January 12th. I am working in the "Special Projects Unit."

I work with the head paralegal and the director of special projects. They both enjoy me and really appreciate my work. The head paralegal even thinks of things to put in a Letter of Recommendation on my behalf. Both she and the Director of Special Projects promised to write an LOR on my behalf when a position becomes available. The director has even bought me lunch on a few occasions. I know it is easier said than done, but try to keep a stiff, upper lip.

I am going to try this approach with the Volunteers Lawyer Program here in Mobile. I have tried in the past, but the Director stated that the attorneys usually use their own staff but what the heck, nothing ventured, nothing gained!

Mary inTampa in Tampa, Florida said: As a mature, well educated worker, this is one of the most disgusting career comments I have ever read.

Mary: I agree that the "fitting in" comment is in fact disgusting. However, I worked at a large law firm in Chicago for 20 years. When they started the layoffs, I wasn't let go right away because I was working for a senior partner who brought in a lot of $$$ to the firm, and he had been deemed to have a difficult personality. After he jumped ship, I was laid off in the next round. I believe that I was let go instead of some of my other peers because I was 55 years old, made too much money for the firm's liking, but also because I didn't kiss ass. I was pleasant, professional and a good worker (also team player), but I did not go out of my way to schmooze and kiss up to the "powers that be." Couldn't do it, wouldn't do it, I'm not built that way. I was out of work for 6-1/2 months. I'm now an AA at a bank.

Wtesdahl in Mobile, Alabama said: I am going to try this approach with the Volunteers Lawyer Program here in Mobile. I have tried in the past, but the Director stated that the attorneys usually use their own staff but what the heck, nothing ventured, nothing gained!

Wtesdahl,
That is Great! I say, Go For It!

Deweu,

I relate completely to you as I have gone through the same thing you have, including he 6 months with no work. I am back at another large firm (a glutton for punishment?). Yes, again, a senior partner, one who is deemed to be difficult. Only us seasoned legal assistants would be able to handle it-that's for sure. Anyway-I wanted to wish you the best of luck at your new job, and I hope and pray I don't get sacked again before retirement. I think this time the boss and I may retire at the same time. We are both about 5 years away from it! Otherwise, I think I'll just take the early Social Security and be done with it!

Amy in Milwaukee, Wisconsin said: Deweu,

I relate completely to you as I have gone through the same thing you have, including he 6 months with no work. I am back at another large firm (a glutton for punishment?). Yes, again, a senior partner, one who is deemed to be difficult. Only us seasoned legal assistants would be able to handle it-that's for sure. Anyway-I wanted to wish you the best of luck at your new job, and I hope and pray I don't get sacked again before retirement. I think this time the boss and I may retire at the same time. We are both about 5 years away from it! Otherwise, I think I'll just take the early Social Security and be done with it!

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Good luck to you both. The last firm I worked at was fairly decent. They were having financial problems and let a paralegal who'd been there for almost 4 years and me go. I got 6 week's severance pay and a glowing recommendation letter. I'd been taking classes part time and enrolled full time since I was let go the Friday before the new semester started. I am considering a degree in Public Administration or Business Management and a certificate in Art Gallery Management. I have a class in Art Gallery Management and one of the state universities here is one of the 8 schools in the country that offer a certificate in Art Gallery Management. I truly hope that I am done with legal; it's been wear and tear on my nerves and I'm lucky that I still have my sanity.

Deborah James in Alameda, California said: _______________________________________________________________________________________________

I wholeheartedly agree with this posting. There are a few decent law firms and decent attorneys; but on the whole, law firms (whether large or small) are a tremendous waste of time. They are inhabited by some of the rudest and (hate to burst their bubble of delusion) STUPIDEST people on the face of the earth.

Yep. DON'T DO IT!! HI DLP and Deb J from Alameda. I haven't been on this in while. To anyone considering the legal field - DON'T!! I finally have the job of my dreams after quitting my legal sec job at 39, going back to school, and finally got my degree in Economics at 42. I was taking a risk because of my age, but I was desperate to get out of law. But did it and I now have the job of my dreams.

I process disability claims for Social Security Administration, and I love my job. I have a wonderful mentor and supervisor. Our branch chief is so approachable it's unreal. I love my coworkers. The workload is very burdensome, but I consider myself very (very!!) fortunate. I feel as though I got a 2nd lease on life. I was never suicidal, but I just felt that, as a legal secretary, if this is all I have to look forward to - help somebody else get rich knowing I'd never have anything to show for it in the long run AND getting treated like crap in the process - then I would rather be dead. You have nothing to look forward to except go to work everyday ane watch somebody else reap the benefits of your hard work.

I work across the bay from San Francisco, and Deb, my guess is you live in Alameda?? So do I. I live 1 block off the beach, and from my front door, I can almost see San Fran in between the apt buildings behind my building. I have been living down here since Jan but started the job June of last year. I had 5-hour round-trip commute via Amtrak for 6mos. I was up at 2:45 AM every morning and got home at 6:10 PM every evening. I took a 9K paycut for this job, comparing to the last full time legal sec job I left in '06. IT IS WELL WORTH IT.

I was willing to do anything to get out of law, and I did it. Not only is the environment so pleasant and humane, but income potential surpasses any income potential I had in law by a long shot. After 3 years on the job, my position advances to GS 12 pay scale. This june, my 1 year anniversay, my income will increase to just 1K more than the last full time job I left. A huge jump. And then there's the benefits, the pension. I still have to pinch myself.

STAY OUT OF LAW.

I process disability claims for Social Security Administration, and I love my job. I have a wonderful mentor and supervisor. Our branch chief is so approachable it's unreal. I love my coworkers. The workload is very burdensome, but I consider myself very (very!!) fortunate. I feel as though I got a 2nd lease on life. I was never suicidal, but I just felt that, as a legal secretary, if this is all I have to look forward to - help somebody else get rich knowing I'd never have anything to show for it in the long run AND getting treated like crap in the process - then I would rather be dead. You have nothing to look forward to except go to work everyday ane watch somebody else reap the benefits of your hard work.

I work across the bay from San Francisco, and Deb, my guess is you live in Alameda?? So do I. I live 1 block off the beach, and from my front door, I can almost see San Fran in between the apt buildings behind my building. I have been living down here since Jan but started the job June of last year. I had 5-hour round-trip commute via Amtrak for 6mos. I was up at 2:45 AM every morning and got home at 6:10 PM every evening. I took a 9K paycut for this job, comparing to the last full time legal sec job I left in '06. IT IS WELL WORTH IT.