Legal Secretarial Work IS NOT good money

Again, everything you've said in your post is true. But you cannot speak for the entire population of legal secretaries. There are some rewards to being a legal secretary, not all attorneys are bad, and not all attorneys treat you bad. It depends on who you work for and your work relationship. That is wonderful that you have great skills so you should take them and convert them and get a job that makes you happy. The difference between you and I is that I enjoyed being a legal secretary. I was stressed from litigation, the trials, etc and I needed a slower pace that is why I am working in-house. No. There is no loyalty in the legal field, but again what employer has loyalty to its employees. They don't have jobs anymore where you work for 20, 30 or 40 years and retire with this big pension, get the car to big bonus. The economy is messed up and you have a decent job nowadays you should be thanking God for being able to put food on the table and provide a roof over your head. There are many people that have degrees and don't make the money that legal secretaries make. You should not put down a profession that had provided an honest living for you. Why don't you just quit and I understand the part about being burnt out. You can get burnt out from being a legal secretary. Like I said everything you have put in your post is true. But you are going to have to learn to deal with woes of life in employment.

Great! You have a wonderful and blessed day. Look on the positive side of everything that you have learned and the experience that you have acquired as a legal secretary for your next job. Never do a job that doesn't make you happy life is way too short. Take care. Peace. Q.

My last post.

Quintella in San Francisco, California said: Yes. This is true that you must change jobs to keep up with current salary. Since I have been a legal secretary, I have changed jobs every 2-4 years if not sooner. Of course, I have also had attorneys ask me to go with them to firms they were going to. Again, it all dependns. If you believe that legal secretaries do not make money then may be you shouldn't be doing the job. This is my last response. Take care and good luck with your endeavors.

Thank you. You are right - I shouldn't be doing the job. I was unfit for this industry because I have a low tolerance for drama and BS, and I don't make a good doormat. In response to a comment you made about why don't I quit - I left the industry 2 years ago and returned to school full time to finish my degree. I guess I still have one foot in - I'm a file clerk in the legal dept of a large company. Yes, in-house counsel is much better. No billing hours and - something I hated - no client contact. As I file clerk, I don't have to worry about that. I don't want to do this for the rest of my life - there's nothing to it - but I love the job. Also as a file clerk, very little attorney interaction. These guys, however, are actually nice. What a surprise.

I'm looking for the long term. I will take a hefty paycut and expected that even in a thriving economy. I just wanted a career that I enjoy plus has room for advancement. I always saw secretarial stuff as a dead-end J.O.B. - Just Over Broke.

Good luck with your Busienss Management degree.

I must say this post was refreshing. Yes and again, all the things you've said is true. I believe you do have the tolerance its just over time you get burnt out with attorneys talking to you like you are stupid, being disrespectful, politics and BS between management and co-workers. This is all true but again you are going to experience this at any job. I would have to say probably on a much lower level than at a law firm. I am glad that you are refocusing on a better job and one that you will enjoy. Believe me the last law firm I worked at was pretty good, not too much politics and BS compared to the many law firms I have worked at...the larger the firm the more BS and politics. There is a lot of BS that you have to put up with to maintain that job...for new comers the blame game is one of the best known games that attorneys like to play. They want the glory and money but do not want to accept responsibility for their mistakes. I enjoyed working as a legal secretary in a law firm and there were times when it was stressful but I believe learning to play hardball first made me stronger for what is forthcoming in my life. Take care and again good luck with your new career. You can make just as much if not more than what you made as a legal secretary...you just have to be able to be convincing.

C.J. in Fort Worth, Texas said: Great post!

NOT!!

Yes. You are right that jobs in Sacramento do not pay. Go to www.craigslist.com, under legal and just check out some of the jobs. $60-90k.

Floater Legal Secretary Needed - $80K (palo alto)

Here's another job posting that pays good.
Reply to: kwhitaker@sdlegalease.com [?]
Date: 2008-11-06, 10:26AM PST

Silicon Valley office of a national, full-service law firm is seeking an experienced floater secretary. Ideal candidate will possess 3+ years of general litigation AND corporate experience.

Duties will include document prep, time keeping, preparing and organizing files, sorting mail, etc. Candidate must be proficient in MS Office Suite. Experience with state and federal court rules, e-filing, and generating TOA/TOCs a must. Candidate must also be highly organized and professional in demeanor.

The Firm offers excellent benefits and a positive working environment, inclusive of training. Salary in the $70's.

Please submit resumes to kwhitaker@sdlegalease.com for immediate consideration.

Compensation: Salary up to $80K

shawnee in Sacramento, California said: NOT!!

If you are not happy working as a legal secretary then you should find another job and make yourself happy or go back to school. Any job you work at in Sacramento is going to low paying.

If you worked in Texas with our wages, then comparing them to California, you would think you need to go on welfare. Texas is by far the worst when it comes to pay. When I see "firm offers positive environment" usually down here that means its an extremely dysfunctional environment and run like hell!

Wow. I am sorry it is like that in Texas. I love California. The cost of living is extremely high but there are so many opportunities. It is true what many people have said in the posting about this industry but you have to learn to take the good with the bad. Nothing is perfect in life and I always try to view everything from a positive prospective. Attitude plays a very important role with how people deal with you. If you respect yourself and exhibit confidence you have less problems at work. I don't allow myself to get involved in office politics and B.B.

JAC in San Antonio, Texas said: If you worked in Texas with our wages, then comparing them to California, you would think you need to go on welfare. Texas is by far the worst when it comes to pay. When I see "firm offers positive environment" usually down here that means its an extremely dysfunctional environment and run like hell!

___________________________________________________________________

Hi JAC, you are dead on point, as usual.

The other phrase I love is "family oriented environment." That's usually indicative of dysfunctional families like The Manson Family, the Mendez brothers, Lizzie Borden, Mafia families, and the like. In short, part of a family you really wouldn't want to be part of. It also means really run like hell!

JAC in San Antonio, Texas said: If you worked in Texas with our wages, then comparing them to California, you would think you need to go on welfare. Texas is by far the worst when it comes to pay. When I see "firm offers positive environment" usually down here that means its an extremely dysfunctional environment and run like hell!

But isn't the cost of living, like housing, alot lot lot cheaper in Texas. So, in the end it evens out.

deansuraci in Cornwall, New York said: But isn't the cost of living, like housing, alot lot lot cheaper in Texas. So, in the end it evens out.

Areas of Texas are cheaper in cost of living, housing, etc., but NOT in Valley (Brownsville, Edna), Dallas, Tyler, Houston and San Antonio. Since a lot of Californians gave up the million $$$ 700 sq ft homes (yes I'm being a little sarcastic) and moved here, the cost of homes here are 2x more then they used to be. And thats with the horrible economy and some prices going down. Also because we are near Mexico, many educated (with degrees)Mexicans come into the country and work at jobs (and even from folks coming in from India, etc), these jobs still pay below where they should be. Teachers, admin. assistants, computer techs and support, medical techs, etc., all get paid less then other states such as Florida, GA., etc. We also have many wealthy business people here who will not pay decent salaries in business. State jobs here pay less then in Arizona, Florida, any states in the NE, West, or NW. If you have a union job, you get jobs that pay a little better.

Thanks for educating me. I always thought the grass was greener in Texas and the women prettier.

Same here in regards to housing getting more expensive. People in and around NYC have moved one and a half hour north of NYC to the suburbs where I reside. These people have sold their 40 year old 1500 sq ft homes/condo for $500,000+ and have moved here to the suburbs. What they get is a new construction 3000 sq foot home (less congestion) on 2 acres and they have money left over from the transactions. After 9/11 more people wanted to get out of the city. These people now take the Metro North train daily to NYC from the suburbs to get to work. More people here means more services needed, more schools, etc., thus taxes have skyrocketed.

deansuraci in Cornwall, New York said: Thanks for educating me. I always thought the grass was greener in Texas and the women prettier.

Same here in regards to housing getting more expensive. People in and around NYC have moved one and a half hour north of NYC to the suburbs where I reside. These people have sold their 40 year old 1500 sq ft homes/condo for $500,000+ and have moved here to the suburbs. What they get is a new construction 3000 sq foot home (less congestion) on 2 acres and they have money left over from the transactions. After 9/11 more people wanted to get out of the city. These people now take the Metro North train daily to NYC from the suburbs to get to work. More people here means more services needed, more schools, etc., thus taxes have skyrocketed.

The women are still prettier, but the grass, well...lets just say we are in a drought (for real).

I think part of our problems are that there are still some good ol' boys still making decisions here and now their sons are coming up behind them doing the same. Sadly, our money for our state and city services are not put where it should be.

Hi, I just wanted to ask for your advice. I recently graduated from a Legal Assistant course at a local college, and then got a job a a small, but busy law firm. After only 3 weeks, my boss told me that this just "wasn't working" and then in not so many words told me that I might want to look into another carrer. I still don't even understand what I did wrong, when I asked my boss, he just shifted his eyes away from me and told me that "I was the face of the firm and that I needed to do certain things..." and then when I pressed him, telling him that I needed to know so that I could correct it, he told me I had poor phone skills.
Can someone please give me advice? Has anyone else expirenced this before? Should I do something else? Go back to school, even though I just spent how much money and how long in school?

Lisa, don't listen to that jerk. He couldn't tell you anything - because there wasn't anything to tell. You just started out in the legal field (probably your first real professional job), and he degraded you. What a DICK!!!

You better go find a new job though. Obviously, he's getting ready to fire you. Considering you have only been there for three weeks, you do not have enough credits for unemployment.

Start looking for another job. When asked why you are leaving this one, better come up with a good answer. Suggestions are (after taking this position at that firm, I realize it is not a good fit) or (I am basically a receptionist and file clerk and this position is not offering me the opportunity to build experience as I had anticipated)or (this was only a temporary position while his secretary was on maternity leave.

Get the f out of there. Considering you have only been there three weeks, I wouldn't even mention to perspective employers that I was there.

Lisa G. in Brampton, Ontario said: Hi, I just wanted to ask for your advice. I recently graduated from a Legal Assistant course at a local college, and then got a job a a small, but busy law firm. After only 3 weeks, my boss told me that this just "wasn't working" and then in not so many words told me that I might want to look into another carrer. I still don't even understand what I did wrong, when I asked my boss, he just shifted his eyes away from me and told me that "I was the face of the firm and that I needed to do certain things..." and then when I pressed him, telling him that I needed to know so that I could correct it, he told me I had poor phone skills.
Can someone please give me advice? Has anyone else expirenced this before? Should I do something else? Go back to school, even though I just spent how much money and how long in school?

Do you have your heart dead-set on becoming a legal secretary, or are you willing to consider other career options? I'm a former legal secretary. My decision to become a legal secretary is, by far, my life's biggest mistake. The problem you described above is normal. If you plan to make a career out of working for attys, get used to it. They are the nastiest, most difficult people on the face of the planet. If they aren't firing you, they are constantly criticizing you. They are unhappy no matter what you do and complain continually. If you haven't been told you're being let go, you still feel every day that you are skating on thin ice. And every time he calls you into his office, you wonder if this is when you're getting the ax.

Lisa G. in Brampton, Ontario said: Hi, I just wanted to ask for your advice. I recently graduated from a Legal Assistant course at a local college, and then got a job a a small, but busy law firm. After only 3 weeks, my boss told me that this just "wasn't working" and then in not so many words told me that I might want to look into another carrer. I still don't even understand what I did wrong, when I asked my boss, he just shifted his eyes away from me and told me that "I was the face of the firm and that I needed to do certain things..." and then when I pressed him, telling him that I needed to know so that I could correct it, he told me I had poor phone skills.
Can someone please give me advice? Has anyone else expirenced this before? Should I do something else? Go back to school, even though I just spent how much money and how long in school?

If you have time on your hands, this is my take on the legal secretarial field:

www.indeed.com/forum/job/legal-secretary/legal-secretary/t51575

I never even knew this site existed! I'm thankful for it. I've been a legal secretary for Satan, et al., for 25 years now. Yep... Co-worker came on the site in March 07. Wanted my job, did everything she could to jeopardize me. I went to HR. This continued for 2.5 years. A paralegal had to leave the dept. due to this person's behavior. She got away with it. I had my nervous breakdown Nov. 09. Doesn't seem that long ago. This is a toxic environment. I just can't describe how horrible it is.

Deborah James in Alameda, California said: ___________________________________________________________________

Hi JAC, you are dead on point, as usual.

The other phrase I love is "family oriented environment." That's usually indicative of dysfunctional families like The Manson Family, the Mendez brothers, Lizzie Borden, Mafia families, and the like. In short, part of a family you really wouldn't want to be part of. It also means really run like hell!

OMG, you are SO right. I can't tell you how many emails that were sent that were "pat-on-the-back" and bullsh*t and "how great we are."

Family, yeah, disfunctional at best.

Life is what you make it no matter what you do for a living. First, like what you do then you will be happy. If you don't like what you do for a living then change it so you can be happy.

Yes. When I first started my first job, the attorney told me I had poor grammar. I answered the phone and used the wrong pronoun. They are very big about appearances. I know you must have hard this before but you must speak proper English, have good grammar and spelling. You must also dress professional and be able to take a whole of constructive conversation that are not so constructive, but are actually demeaning. This is not a field for a person who is sensitive to every little thing someone may say to them. You should have done an intern before you actually decided to become a legal assistant. You must also work with an attorney who understands that you are new to the field and are going to make mistakes. Look at your post and see if you have any typos in it. These are the things that you have to be good at proofreading, creating documents without mistakes, answering the phone and speaking well, dealing with backstabing in the office because there is a whole lot of that going on at a law firm or law office. It is an extremely stressful environment so if you cannot handle stress then I would say change fields now because it is extremely stressful but then again, it depends on where you work. You could work as a courtroom clerk, a clerk, paralegal, in-house at a corporation. You have to figure out who much stress you can deal with and this is not the type of job you are guaranteed....one mistake could have you walking out the door so you have to come to work and be very serious every day, pay attention to detail and dot every I and cross every single T. Keep in mind a mistake that a legal secretary or paralegal makes can cost the firm a whole lot of money in legal malpractice by missing a deadline. You might try working for a family law, transactional action but I guarantee no matter where you work it will all be the same. It is a recession right now and these attorneys are putting more pressure on employees not less so be prepared to deal with it. Good luck.

dh in Northern CA, California said: I never could understand how the legal secretary profession got its reputation for being good pay. To anyone who happens to care, here's some info I'm cutting and pasting from the National Association of Colleges and Employers. According to a 2006 salary survey these are the starting salaries for ENTRY LEVEL positions by major:

Accounting $44,928
Business Admin/Mgmt 41,155
Economics 44,588
Mgmt Info Systems 45,391
Marketing 37,191
Computer Science 50,744
Engineering: Chemical 56,269
Engineering: Civil 46,084
Engineering: Computer 53,096
Engineering: Electrical 53,300
Engineering: Mechanical 51,808
English 31,385
History 33,071
Psychology 30,369

Remember these are ENTRY LEVEL! I was making $55k as a legal secretary I left Southern CA in '06 with 5 1/2 years' exp. Granted, that was a little underpaid for the area, but I couldn't have gotten more than $60K at that time, and at that amount, I'm almost capped out. It would only cost of living increases from there on out. For those of you who think that's good pay for a secretary, keep in mind that I rented at the cheapest complext in my city - $1535/mo for a 2+2, and we were getting $100 increase at the end of our lease.

Accountants and Engineers are making 6 figures after about 5-8 years. I go to the law club meetings at the local college and listen to the kids. I tell them to go all the way and become an atty or stay out of law altogether. Don't get tired of law school and decide to be a paralegal or secretary instead, and if you don't finish law school, then avoid the industry altogether!

I lived in So. Calif. for many years, upon leaveing in July 2005 I was earning about $37,000 & I had 15 years experience. My rent was $1,100 a month!! I'm in the midwest earning $49K and my rent is $700. That's one reason why I left So. Cal !!

That was a bad firm that you was working at...

Hi everyone,

This is to all, I just graduated with an Associates in Paralegal. I did my intership at the DA's office; which was a mistake considering they didn't give me access to anything, because I was only and intern. I think I want to go back to school for something completely different. I haven't had any luck getting a job that doesn't consist of a huge pay cut from my previous job, which is in retail; or they want at least three years experience. wtf, reading everything that everyone is saying makes me even more uneasy because I don't want to be in a cubicle for the rest of my life, and worse to work for a lawyer. That book that needs to be written, I wish it was there for me to read before I went to school for being a Paralegal.

Quick question. Did you not research this job before you wasted your time going to school. No matter what field you are in if you do not have experience you are not going to go from one field to another and expect the same pay when you have no experience. Over time you will definitely make more money in the legal field than the retail field. I keep on reading these posts and everyone wants money, more pay, and to be treated well. You are looking for a pot of gold that does not exist. No matter where you work you are going to have problems. You just have to learn how to deal with work related issues. There are going to be people and attorneys on power trips so you have to learn to get past someone talking to you disrespectful and money the more complex of a job you perform the more stress you will endure. No employer is going to pay you a lot of money and you have no major job responsibilities. That's just simply crazy to even think that's possible. I think that some of these people posting must be in their early 20s - 30s and just think that everything comes easy. That's not the case you have to work hard for what you want in life. Try it and stop complaining so much and things will change.

I agree...I worked for peanuts in the Legal field for years...I started working in Legal at about 26...quit it and returned when I was 36...I'm now earning about $45K per year and I've been working in the legal field for 24 for years, I'm now 60 years old. Just not sure the young folks are expecting :)

Young folks expect instant everything without hard paying their dues. Everything is so fast and everyone is in such a hurry that that they don't take the time to think anymore but they just want money, presitage and a good job. Let's say I'm closer to 50 than anything else. From 18-22, I worked in a salon as a cosmetologist, rented my own station,averaged over $1,000 per week but to young to handle that much money. No business management skills. I trained for many years in the legal field so I could learn about the different areas of law. I attended over 30 seminars, attended paralegal training 2.5 yrs, fast-track training 6 weeks, beginning legal courses 6 weeks, notary public 20 yrs, real estate license, mortgage closing training, anything type of course that has to do with the law I have taken. Even at my new job, I have taken over 35 courses in 1 year. Nothing comes easy in this world and dealing and working with attorneys is not an easy job. You cannot expect a whole lot a money without any training. I have been in the field for about 23 years. I had to really take a look at some of the firms that I worked for and say to myself is the money worth the pain. My salary range after 23 years is about $70-85k so how do you think you can get that without any training, skills or putting in some time. It also depends on your location, how big the firm is whether you work for a corporation or law firm, public sector. It's a great job if you are a serious person and pay close attention to detail. If you want to have fun at work, the legal field is not for you.

Vicarious_doll in Reno, Nevada said: Hi everyone,

This is to all, I just graduated with an Associates in Paralegal. I did my intership at the DA's office; which was a mistake considering they didn't give me access to anything, because I was only and intern. I think I want to go back to school for something completely different. I haven't had any luck getting a job that doesn't consist of a huge pay cut from my previous job, which is in retail; or they want at least three years experience. wtf, reading everything that everyone is saying makes me even more uneasy because I don't want to be in a cubicle for the rest of my life, and worse to work for a lawyer. That book that needs to be written, I wish it was there for me to read before I went to school for being a Paralegal.

I have worked in law firms first as a legal secretary, then as a paralegal, for the last 30 years. I loved all of the attorneys I worked for in California, then I got a divorce and moved to Austin, Texas 13 years ago (I am not from Columbia, South Carolina, not sure why this is showing up). As a paralegal in Austin I worked for attorneys that actually stamped their feet and yelled at the top of their lungs when they were frustrated. People were fired left and right. Preparing for the first trial I had ever been involved in, I was left to my own devices to figure out what I needed most of the time even though I asked for direction every single day, then when we got to trial (an 8 hour drive away) the attorney finally started looking over all of the evidence. Fortunately for me, I had everything, but it was nerve-wracking. The thing is, some places are great, some places are not. Some places will train you, most will not. They throw you in the "pool" to sink or swim. I actually had a paralegal tell me that she "figured out everything on her own, so why should she show me how to do anything?" The thing is, I survived. And I got much tougher. (cont'd)

Vicarious_doll in Reno, Nevada said: Hi everyone,

This is to all, I just graduated with an Associates in Paralegal. I did my intership at the DA's office; which was a mistake considering they didn't give me access to anything, because I was only and intern. I think I want to go back to school for something completely different. I haven't had any luck getting a job that doesn't consist of a huge pay cut from my previous job, which is in retail; or they want at least three years experience. wtf, reading everything that everyone is saying makes me even more uneasy because I don't want to be in a cubicle for the rest of my life, and worse to work for a lawyer. That book that needs to be written, I wish it was there for me to read before I went to school for being a Paralegal.

(cont'd) I know you must be frustrated hearing all of these good and bad experiences, but now you know some of the worst of what is out there. A final straw for me was in my last law firm, I heard some of the young male attorneys talking about hiring only "hot babes" as secretaries and/or paralegals, not really caring about their intelligence or experience, etc. I now work as a paralegal for the legal department of a large corporation. It is a very different culture. Everyone is treated with respect, but you do have to stand up for yourself sometimes. So there are other options than law firms, and I would seek them out. But do understand, you are support staff. If you want to move up, it is rare that those kinds of opportunities arise. Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

This is a very good point. I know work for a corporation also and find the atmosphere much better to work in and the attorneys are not as upset all the time. It believe its because they do not have to bill hours per month. Yes. Some attorneys may say they want a hot secretary, but that will only last for long until the hot blonde starts messing everything up. I've seen that one also at the firm. They put the hot babe next to me to train and she still can't figure it out with training and a copy of a draft...so again, you might want to take into consideration where you work, how many hours you want to work and what type of attorneys you want to work with and how you wish to be treated.

Those attorneys wanting to hire only "hot babes" are not too smart...don't they know, not too many hot babes "work" as Legal Secretaries/Paralegals...the babes would rather pole dance and make a whole lot more money than Secy's/Paralegals! The large firm I work in has about 50 secretaries & 25 Paralegals and the average age is 45+, some are even in their 60's. We only have 2 people in their 20's...the 20-year olds don't want this crappy job for such little money! Attorney's...what do they know :)

Uhm....last I checked, it was still unlawful to discriminate in employment on the basis of sex and gender. Which is to say that when attorneys say that they want a "hot" female as their secretary, it's evidence of gender discrimination.

Those guys should be reported to the Labor Department so they can be investigated and fined to generate money for the state. Maybe if they get punished enough, they'll cut it out with the unlawful employment practices.

Law firms PROTECT Attorneys...no matter what they say. No HR Dept. will back an action to report an attorney, it is their job to keep the attorneys happy at all costs. Secretaries & paralegals get fired every day for a mistake or action taken by an "Attorney"...it just a fact of life and I've been experience this for nearly 30 years. On an average basis...there are too many Chiefs and not enough Indians to actually make the law work.

dovelet in Saint Louis, Missouri said: Law firms PROTECT Attorneys...no matter what they say. No HR Dept. will back an action to report an attorney, it is their job to keep the attorneys happy at all costs. Secretaries & paralegals get fired every day for a mistake or action taken by an "Attorney"...it just a fact of life and I've been experience this for nearly 30 years. On an average basis...there are too many Chiefs and not enough Indians to actually make the law work.

Dovelet, you are so right. I was told by a Human Resources Director (of that particular firm where I heard the male attorneys talking about hiring only "hot babes" as secretaries and/or paralegals) that if any support staff went up against an attorney, regardless of the situation, the attorney would always win. Most law firms I have worked for have had this attitude, it was just shocking to hear the words spoken out loud. This HR Director made it clear that this came from the top - a female managing attorney of the firm.

I can honestly tell you many stories like this and the attorneys are never wrong especially at large law firms. The reason being is because management invests so much money in training associates so they want their return...all those billable hours so they are not going to go against the attorney even when he's wrong. Let me give you a prime example. Early in my career I worked for this attorney...let's call him DOE1. DOE1 was afraid of his shadow and definitely the partners at the firm. He could not stand to be yelled at so one time when DOE1 asked him about a report that he was supposed to have completed, my attorney was afraid to tell DOE1 that he didn't do it so he lied on me and said I erased the tape. I gave the attorney an opportunity to tell the truth but he refused to so I asked DOE1 to give let me prove he was telling lies. Well I had DOE1 check his billable hours, and he had billed nothing for this allegedly report he spent hours doing. Thereafter, I was transferred to another desk but all the attorneys didn't like me after that because they didn't feel that I would have their back. Now that's something when my attorney left me out to fry. That is just how they are. No matter what they do they cover for each other most of the time...even if it means you get fired for something they did wrong that's why its a very stressful job.

You are comparing college degree jobs with legal secretary, for which you do not need a degree. well experienced Legal secretaries in my area get 40-50,000. Paralegals with certificates and experience make more, depending on the complexity of the work.

As for women who are extremely nasty, over my 42 years of working, I have seen them in law and general business, in management and in support roles. It is due in my opinion to the amount of passion they have to think of ways to trample others, manipulate, delegate and succeed to the "successful" men's level by brute force and/or the level of pure insanity they possess. No nice, well-adjusted, intelligent person would purposely mistreat others and/or sleep with bosses to get to the top (and the good become easy prey for the nasty ones). The only way after that is DOWN (at the hands of a stronger one). So I guess they see it as survival of the fittest.

Caryn in Salt Lake City, Utah in Denver, Colorado said: I've been a legal secretary for over 26 years, first in NJ where I grew up and in Utah for the past 12 years. I took an $8,000/year pay cut when I moved to Utah. I am at that point in my life where I am ready to do something different and have been planning my escape from this cubicle prison. I am burned out and bored with my job and I feel like all I'm doing is helping to make the lawyers rich. I work in a large regional firm that does not give staff bonuses at Christmas. I earn $57,000/year which is considered high for the Salt Lake area. To branch out of the legal secretarial profession and into a newfound writing career, I am writing an ebook called "Do You Have What it Takes to Become a Legal Secretary? An Insightful Guide Into the Legal Profession." Do you think there would be a market for such a book? There must be gals out there who think being a legal secretary is a worthy profession and perhaps need a guide like this to help them make the decision. Anyone's thoughts on this would be welcomed.

I think it may help young people decide whether college to pursue any other profession would be smart for them. Kids are primed for college. Seeing the relentless, hard work and no recognition that is legal secretary (sometimes equivalent to overworked slaves due to combining several people's jobs), they will be happy to pursue any job that has growth beyond $50,000/yr. Management work puts you in a driver's seat. After many years of "typing and filing," I am still in the passenger seat, nearly burned out. You have to possess a desire to work harder than anyone else you know to meet the daily demands of heavy legal work. If this is not your cup of tea, go into the pharmaceutical industry, where you wonder what you are going to do to keep busy all day (been there). It all boils down to how much/type of responsibility makes you feel fulfilled but not disillusioned.

Mezosub in Costa Mesa, California said: Uhm....last I checked, it was still unlawful to discriminate in employment on the basis of sex and gender. Which is to say that when attorneys say that they want a "hot" female as their secretary, it's evidence of gender discrimination.

Those guys should be reported to the Labor Department so they can be investigated and fined to generate money for the state. Maybe if they get punished enough, they'll cut it out with the unlawful employment practices.

Who is going to speak on your behalf? What company won't cover their tracks in any situation that borders on illegal? Anyone who speaks up better have independent wealth or impeccable references to switch professions. The labor dept proclaims a lot of "grey area" to protect business.

dovelet in Saint Louis, Missouri said: I lived in So. Calif. for many years, upon leaveing in July 2005 I was earning about $37,000 & I had 15 years experience. My rent was $1,100 a month!! I'm in the midwest earning $49K and my rent is $700. That's one reason why I left So. Cal !!

Hi Dovelet. My guess is you had a significant other who also worked living with you while you made $37K and paid $1,100/mo for rent??? If you were single, especially a single parent, that was a struggle, no doubt.

If you don't mind, what city and firm were you working? I lived in Irvine and worked in Costa Mesa for small real estate transaction firm. I'm afraid to provide a firm name. They are giving me good references right now during my job search (my current boss is a cool chick; she called them for a "reference" on me).

I want to leave California. Thru networking, I have become acquainted with so many people who are state workers, and they are encouraging me to apply with the state and offering to help me thru the process. I am not interested; I know I can't afford to be picky. I am, however, willing to move almost anywhere outside of Cali, including places like Alaska and North Dakota. Yuck. It would be so worth it if enjoyed my job though.

I'm single, no significant other to help...I just struggled a lot. I lived and worked in Woodland Hills. I was in corp. law for a gift company that went out of business due to corp. executive greed and other executives that did not know how to run the company. I worked for wonderful attorneys, they helped all of us get very good salary increases, especially since we not a "law firm." The only reason I left was due to company shut-down....too bad...I miss it terribly!

To dovelet in Saint Louis, Missouri:
Hi I'm new to this thread but, I'm usually on the others well anyway what area are you at now and you make $49,000 a year?

It's good pay up to a point. My starting legal secretary salary in 2001 was 45K. By Nine years later it is 81K. I can only expect to go a little higher. I started in SF, CA and am now in New York...working, not living! Even on 81k, can't afford Manhattan. I will be supplementing my income through freelance writing.

dh in Northern CA, California said: I never could understand how the legal secretary profession got its reputation for being good pay. To anyone who happens to care, here's some info I'm cutting and pasting from the National Association of Colleges and Employers. According to a 2006 salary survey these are the starting salaries for ENTRY LEVEL positions by major:

Accounting $44,928
Business Admin/Mgmt 41,155
Economics 44,588
Mgmt Info Systems 45,391
Marketing 37,191
Computer Science 50,744
Engineering: Chemical 56,269
Engineering: Civil 46,084
Engineering: Computer 53,096
Engineering: Electrical 53,300
Engineering: Mechanical 51,808
English 31,385
History 33,071
Psychology 30,369

Remember these are ENTRY LEVEL! I was making $55k as a legal secretary I left Southern CA in '06 with 5 1/2 years' exp. Granted, that was a little underpaid for the area, but I couldn't have gotten more than $60K at that time, and at that amount, I'm almost capped out. It would only cost of living increases from there on out. For those of you who think that's good pay for a secretary, keep in mind that I rented at the cheapest complext in my city - $1535/mo for a 2+2, and we were getting $100 increase at the end of our lease.

Accountants and Engineers are making 6 figures after about 5-8 years. I go to the law club meetings at the local college and listen to the kids. I tell them to go all the way and become an atty or stay out of law altogether. Don't get tired of law school and decide to be a paralegal or secretary instead, and if you don't finish law school, then avoid the industry altogether!

I have never personally experienced more BS in the legal field than any other. In many careers/jobs, BS is to be expected when you're an employee (degreed or not). I have a BS in management, but ended up being a legal secretary somehow. I honestly don't know how it happened, but I've been lucky in this field. I'm considering making a lateral move to paralegal. I have no interest in going to law school. I like writing and photography, but until I can solely existing financially on my writing and photography (which are currently hobbies), I will supplement my income and stay put. As I mentioned, I'm in the low 80s, salary wise.

sorry about the typos

Michelle (in NY, not DC) in Washington, District of Columbia said: I have never personally experienced more BS in the legal field than any other. In many careers/jobs, BS is to be expected when you're an employee (degreed or not)...

Hi Michelle - I wrote the above figures before the decline of the economy. I turned down an offer while still in Orange County, CA, for $59K in Sept, '05 because I wanted to focus on my career change. In the Fall, '07, I called a popular recruiter I used a lot while I worked in OC. She said she was placing secretaries with my exp level at $70K, but, at that time, that money still wouldn't have gotten anyone very far in OC. Definitely not enough to buy condo at that time. Now with the drop of housing prices any everything else, including pay, I still don't know whether the average paralegal or legal sec could afford to own. I doubt it.

I graduated w/my BA in Economics in Dec, and now I am searching for a job like almost everyone else. Unlike almost everyone else, this job search was planned 3+ years ago. I had no idea that the economy was going to do this when I first started planning my career change. But I had I been able to look into a crystal ball and see this in advance, I still would have quit that job and went back to school. I PASSIONATELY HATED BEING A LEGAL SECRETARY WITH EVERY OUNCE OF MY BEING.

You are right about more BS in law than any other field. I've also worked in retail mgmt, insurance, and been in the military and never have I seen so much dishonesty, lack of integrity, superiors sabotage of subordinates, and just utter misery and meanness in any other field, not even when I drove truck in the military 20 years ago and had old school guys as superiors who didn't like women in male roles.

Dee in Atlanta, Georgia said: Okay, I'm looking to change my career and thought I could get training as a legal secretary there are only online courses available trust me I researched every local school to find "legal secretary certificate" courses -no live courses mostly online or classes available miles away from home.

So my interest in the law is why I find myself wanting to learn more.ANY suggestions I want to increasing my secretarial skills.

Dee- I am currently at the point where you were 21 months ago when you made this post. Did you ever find a reputable school? I'm a legal word processor, and always steered clear from legal secretarial. I just want to learn how to manage calendars, do billing and a number of other tasks that I've never done before (as I've only handled document production). I hope you don't mind passing on knowledge. Thanks

I am a legal secretary and have been since receiving my associates at Berkeley School of Business back in 1991...my Associate's Degree however,was in marketing...recession was full swing when i graduated...i had a one year old at the time, I took a job at a small firm as a receptionist to make ends meet-they fired one of their secretary's 4 months later, asked if i would be interested in becoming a legal secretary...i said "okay" and the rest is history...I was 22 at the time and here i am 19 years later...i make 68K i have had a 401(K) for over 12 years and fully vested...i work in an extremely stressful enviornment and you have to really be able to take criticism, have a thick skin and be able to handle your work load and your bosses; deadlines are everyday; you must work independently and, quite frankly, i am still learning things time to time...it never ends...new laws, statutes, etc. I work in medmal/wrongful death and product liability for the partner, i have been with him over 12 years...yes i love my salary, but it is not an easy job...i don't sit around snapping gum all day...i have my own assistant to help me...and it is not an easy job by any means...but it is interesting...if you are the type of person that can handle high stress, etc...here's your job...

-- not sitting around and snapping gum all day. You hit it right on the button.

I thought court reporting was stressful. I quit it because of the stress and went to legal assistant.

Needless to say, I am not 52, and practice my shorthand everything - so I can go back to the easy job I had - taking a depo and transcribing it.