Starting out...

The interview went well. This one was with the Office Manager, as the attorney is out of town. When I interviewed 2 years ago, I interviewed with the attorney. What I remember about that place was that it was super organized, and she had adequate staff to perform the necessary work.

I also got a call from an agency today. I'm playing it by ear at this firm, I am not putting in a lot of extra hours. I'm considered "exempt," and wouldn't get paid for overtime even if I was willing. Not sure they realize that the Department of Labor determined that paralegal jobs are not exempt positions.

Deborah James in Alameda, California said: ______________________________________________________________

The other one had a status conference continued (essentially because she isn't ready) and wanted to me argue with me when I told her that the court wanted a reason for a continuance.

They have neither agreed on a mediator or a mediation date. I just told the clerk that there was a possibility of the case settling, which worked.

I can't keep covering the rear ends of these know nothing bimbos and then hearing crap about it.

Truely unbelievable- NOW the attorneys are asking the seretary what to do - or the secretary is figuring out what to do. A reson for the continuence. As if that is such a surprise question to an attorney. Now they want the secretary to babysit for them. My oh my.

I have to hand it to you - you are one survivor.

Displaced Legal Professional in Denver, Colorado said:

All in all, dh, you received excellent advice from that secretary. As a paralegal, I dunno if asking about overtime would have flown, but maybe I should have.

I feel for you regarding your Data Analysis class. I barely passed Stat when I was in college. The take-home final in which we could used calculators in the lab saved me.

Hey DLP and dh: DLP- I always ask the hours. ALWAYS. I will not take a job without the specifice hours outlined and in writing. AND I do not take "billable hour jobs" No way. If I wanted the hours, I would have gone to law school. Unfortunately for you - you did not have all this information. AND man, your boss took advantage of you and then some.

As to Statics.- As a Politcal Science major, statics was part of one of courses. Man, I thought I was a gonner, but, I went to the T.A., as always when it gets sticky, and the T.A. got me through it, GOT a "B" grade.

Displaced Legal Professional in Denver, Colorado said:
Firms acquire new computers, software, etc. to please the **attorneys**. They could care less about pleasing the worker bees. Also, don't forget, computers, etc. are fixed assets which are depreciable. Pay is an expense - and, of course, worker bees are expendable.

Trust me DLP- Yu were so slimed by your group. I was slimed many a times- just did it in 6 months.

The software is indeed for the attorneys. The latest term I heard, on CSI Miami, is the term "desk jockeys". updated code for worker bees

Deborah James in Oakland, California said: _______________________________________________________

At least some firms think so. It's a foolhardy move. The constant switching of staff does not bode well for performance and morale.

There's a word for people who don't upgrade/maintain their equipment - CHEAP.

What 's the word for your first comment?

Displaced Legal Professional in Denver, Colorado said:
Part of my job was to set hearings ...One time he didn't like that I wasn't calling the WC Division of Admin Hearings fast enough for him or some such nonsense. He got made at me and raised his voice to me, insistently: "I'll make the call." This incident happened more than two years ago but I still recall him asking me for the phone number. To this day, I don't know why he got mad at me.

On the other hand, and in fairness, I worked with at least one new associate who would ask me what to do many times. One of these associates was astute enough to realize he didn't know everything and the paralegals would train him if he was decent to them. This associate and I worked well together. I enjoyed working with him.

As to first comment - who knows what was up his crawl that day- maybe afight with the wife. Oh yeah, but that would not be profssional behaviour to take out personal problems on staff.

As to second comment - most newbe attorneys know darn well that an experienced Paralegal is to be friends with. They do not know what they are doing.

Displaced Legal Professional in Denver, Colorado said: kmm in Wilmington, Delaware: "I always ask the hours. ALWAYS. I will not take a job without the specifice hours outlined and in writing....Unfortunately for you - you did not have all this information. AND man, your boss took advantage of you and then some."

He did, but, within reason, I've been more about loyalty, and getting the work done and on deadline. I've always worked hard and put in more hours than required in every job I've had since college. In other words, I have never objected to staying late or putting in reasonable and necessary hours. I was raised with a work ethic and I'm proud of it.

However, keywords are "reasonable" and "necessary." Necessary? They were. Reasonable? After a time, no.

Loyalty and getting the work done means sh!t in this new millennium.

That is my point - yu put in way too many unreasonable hours. And I speak from knowledge. NO Paralegal works as many hours as you , without overtime pay, unelss they are a "billable hour" paralegal.

Displaced Legal Professional in Denver, Colorado said:

Loyalty and getting the work done means sh!t in this new millennium.

You KNOW it. And the old guard who worked for companies and big big corporations , where before you were taken care of- when the millennium changed, their 25+ years of loyality was forgotten and they "slimed" them all.

kmm in Wilmington, Delaware said: You KNOW it. And the old guard who worked for companies and big big corporations , where before you were taken care of- when the millennium changed, their 25+ years of loyality was forgotten and they "slimed" them all.

BEING SLIMED - that is the new buzz word of the millenium, as was as I am conserned. AND , trying not to be slimed.

Displaced Legal Professional in Denver, Colorado said: kmm in Wilmington, Delaware: "Truly unbelievable- NOW the attorneys are asking the secretary [or paralegal] what to do - or the secretary [or paralegal] is figuring out what to do. A reason for the continuance. As if that is such a surprise question to an attorney. Now they want the secretary to babysit for them...."

Part of my job was to set hearings with or otherwise contact Workers' Comp. I had been doing it since I worked for the SOB-attorney I last worked for. One time he didn't like that I wasn't calling the WC Division of Admin Hearings fast enough for him or some such nonsense. He got made at me and raised his voice to me, insistently: "I'll make the call." This incident happened more than two years ago but I still recall him asking me for the phone number. To this day, I don't know why he got mad at me.

_________________________________________________________________________________

They don't seem to grasp simple concepts, like getting a phone number by themselves. I've said before, I have worked for some decent attorneys; but they're rare as hen's teeth. The field is filled with dysfuntional, overemotional persons who seem to lack common sense.

At my last law firm job, I worked with a paralegal, who was threatened by my experience and did not speak to me the entire 8 months I worked with her. I was laid off and it's the best thing that happened to me. I almost got another job at a law firm but thanks to the miserable paralegal hanging up on the person who called to get a reference on me, I didn't get the job. Turns out, Ms. No-Manners did me a favor. A few months later, I landed a job, not in law, and now make TWICE as much as what I was making as a paralegal and I no longer work for snakes in suits and goats in skirts.

That describes the paralegal who was at the women's righs firm that I worked at. She was a real nightmare.

I'm trying to stick it out with this family law firm because they're across the street from the community college. I'd really like to take some classes and get into a non-legal area.

After awhile, it really starts to wear you down.

Z28 in Boston, Massachusetts said: ...A few months later, I landed a job, not in law, and now make TWICE as much as what I was making as a paralegal and I no longer work for snakes in suits and goats in skirts.

Hi Z28- I love that comment, "snakes in suits and goats in skirts"!! LOL!! I've returned to school full time so that I could make a career change. I couldn't stand working for attorneys any more. What job did you land outside law that paid you twice as much????

I wouldn't get on your case about denigrating females. That crew at that women's rights group were some of the lousiest attorneys I've ever seen.

There are some pretty shady attornies of both genders. It's sad for clients who are depending on them for legal work.

I think I've mentioned the conference I attended some years ago where a retiring Supreme Court Justice was planning to get back into the practice of law. He was disturbed at realizing that the public views attorneys as "arrogant, overpaid, obnoxious jerks."

That's why there is a growing pro se movement in this country. Besides people who can't afford attorneys, there are people don't just don't trust attorneys. I don't either.

The few times I've had disputes, I've handled them on my own. I wouldn't let most of the people that I've seen in the last few years represent me on a jaywalking ticket if I had 10 witnesses willing to testify on my behalf - that's how incompetent I think they are and I'm looking at them from the inside.

dh in Northern CA, California said: Hi Z28- I love that comment, "snakes in suits and goats in skirts"!! LOL!! I've returned to school full time so that I could make a career change. I couldn't stand working for attorneys any more. What job did you land outside law that paid you twice as much????

Teaching, in a specialized field. I love it!

Displaced Legal Professional in Denver, Colorado said:

Isn't it sad how catty and immature people can be. Of course, you know that I am talking about that other paralegal and not you, Z28.

______________________________________________________________

It is sad. It's also really unfortunate for the clients. That, after all, is the reason that law firms exist. It frequently seems like the clients are the last people on anybody's minds.

It exists in other fields as well, but the legal field seems to have a preponderance of petty minded people.

Z28 in Boston, Massachusetts said: Teaching, in a specialized field. I love it!

What do you teach and where? If you're teaching in a typical education system, you probably have an advanced degree; is that right? What in? And - sorry for the questions - how did you end up as a legal secretary??? I bet you were soooo happy to get ot of that.

My first experience as a Legal Asst/Secretary/Paralegal began in 2005. I had retired from a large corporation and was changing course direction and still wanted to work (I was 52). I worked in a firm about 2 yrs and burned out. I wish I had seen this forum before taking the job. I loved the field which was Civil Law. But many of you nailed it on how the attys are in that field. Most attys are narcissistic anyway. By the time I left, I had been made to feel I was inept and worthless. That seems to be common for secretaries, legal assistants, etc. In Dallas and Houston, you get pretty good pay. But here in San Antonio, forget it. The stress and headaches are not worth it. I just wish I had found this forum before I took the job.

JAC in San Antonio, Texas said: ...I wish I had seen this forum before taking the job. I loved the field which was Civil Law. But many of you nailed it on how the attys are in that field. Most attys are narcissistic anyway. By the time I left, I had been made to feel I was inept and worthless. That seems to be common for secretaries, legal assistants, etc... I just wish I had found this forum before I took the job.

Hi JAC-I also got into this industry, believing that I would like it, because I wasn't informed. Growing up, I loved to read and read nothing but True Crime books. They say you should do what you love; so when I decided to return to school for a BA, I chose Criminology. I finished 30 units of criminal justice courses at Los Angeles City College then transferred to UC Irvine. I wanted to be a criminal defense paralegal for a private atty or work for the prosecutor or public defender's office. I dropped out of UCI after the first quarter, in Dec., '02. At that point, I'd been working in the legal industry as a part timer for 2 years, and I knew there was no fu*ckin way I could tolerate this crap full time. I floundered in the industry for another 3 1/2 years, trying to figure out what to do with my life. Meanwhile, my hatred for the profession grew, probably because now I was doing it full time. Throughout '05, I took real estate and loan processing classes, hoping to career change to that industry. We all know what happened there. So almost 2 years ago I returned to my hometown in Northern CA. Cost of living is much cheaper here. I'm a part time file clerk and a full time Economics student at state university. I will be 42 when I graduate in May, '09. I don't want to be too picky about what I'll do, because that limits my options. But I will NOT accept any job that requires interaction with legal personnel, nor will I work in customer service, public relations, nor client contact. I think Econ is pretty safe.

JAC in San Antonio, Texas said: My first experience as a Legal Asst/Secretary/Paralegal began in 2005. I had retired from a large corporation and was changing course direction and still wanted to work (I was 52). I worked in a firm about 2 yrs and burned out. I wish I had seen this forum before taking the job. I loved the field which was Civil Law. But many of you nailed it on how the attys are in that field. Most attys are narcissistic anyway. By the time I left, I had been made to feel I was inept and worthless. That seems to be common for secretaries, legal assistants, etc. In Dallas and Houston, you get pretty good pay. But here in San Antonio, forget it. The stress and headaches are not worth it. I just wish I had found this forum before I took the job.

One more thing - I see state jobs here that I will be qualified to do once I graduate. They pay $12-1300 less than what I made in Orange County 3 years ago. I don't care. If they hire me, I'll take it. Of course, theres a lot of advancement in the long run, and private starts at a lot more. I just want to like what I do.

Displaced Legal Professional in Denver, Colorado said: JAC in San Antonio, Texas: "Most attys are narcissistic anyway...."

They are. They're also such babies. It's all about their needs. "I need this, I need that, bring it to me, you can't go home until you bring me (project)," etc., ad nauseum. The shareholder in my first firm just loved to be waited on. She thought the world revolved around her. She used to send back food at McDonald's, for crying out loud.

They throw tantrums. One of the partners in my second firm got so frustrated with his phone that he picked it up and threw it at his paralegal-office manager. I didn't actually witness this incident, but heard about it from two other paralegals in the office. They were reliable and believable people.

Good post. Thank you.

_____________________________________________________________

As usual, you are right. I got terminated today. Unfortunately, an attorney - who is the President of the local bar association did not have my final paycheck and gave me a letter informing me that my final pay will be deposited in my checking account on May 30.

I just sent him an email informing him that the money needs to be deposited in my checking account or a physical check drawn up for me to pick up to avoid my having to involve the Labor Commissioner.

Talk about unorganized, whiny brats in that place. The last person I assisted when an employer did not pay final wages at the time of termination ended up getting an additional $1400 in addition to her final paycheck.

Wouldn't you think that lawyers should know the law?

I think sometimes they think feel they are so powerful and above everyone that they forget that the law also applies to them as well.

JAC in San Antonio, Texas said: I think sometimes they think feel they are so powerful and above everyone that they forget that the law also applies to them as well.

_____________________________________________________________

You got that right. The lady I helped when she didn't get her check kept getting the royal runaround from the guy who didn't pay her. He even continued the hearing that the Labor Commissioner scheduled (not realizing that the penalties and interest kept adding up). He even went so far as to call the lady and tell her that he didn't see why he should have to pay for Saturdays and Sundays since those were her normal off days.

He might have understood why he had to pay, but he ended up having to pay her an additional $1400. Once, a few years ago, a law firm didn't pay my final wages until over a week after I was let go. I didn't do anything at the time. I've since learned my lesson, and the President of the local bar association is about to learn his.

No wonder there are self-help clinics popping up all over the country.

Displaced Legal Professional in Denver, Colorado said: Deborah James in Alameda, California: "I got terminated today."

I'm sorry to hear that, Deborah. I hope you're okay - though I have no doubt you are.

"Wouldn't you think that lawyers should know the law?"

They DON'T. I can't get over how little law lawyers really know.

I expected him to fight my claim. Even if he wasn't an attorney, I would think that as a business owner he would know not to ignore a UIB claim.

______________________________________________________________

Of course I'm okay. Thank you for asking. I knew this was going to happen from the beginning when one of the attorneys wanted to argue about whether a Proof of Service was required when filing an executed Notice and Acknowledgment. It was - besides this was a notice from the court about something that was rejected before I got there. She wanted to argue and then tried to claim that I was confrontational.

She also didn't know how to serve a Wage Assignment. I took care of that. She'd been screwing aOne of the things I was doing today was getting the Sheriff's Dept. to fax us a copy of the Claim of Exemption that the employee filed, as it wasn't sent over with the Employer's Return. They were very nice and were able to get someone who was able to leave their post to fax it over. Ms. "Now" didn't understand that the Sheriff can't jump to her command.

She was doing her "I need it now, now, now" performance. I really felt like saying "Why don't you go over to the Sheriff's Dept. and do your tantrum number? They have a place for people who exhibit that kind of behavior."

I'm sure she'll find a way to miss the deadline to respond and screw it up.

I could care less at this point. I just hope they are not stupid enough to not have my paycheck ready in the next day or so. Interest and penalties began today and the Labor Commissioner won't give a rat's rear end about them not knowing the law

Displaced Legal Professional in Denver, Colorado said: Deborah James in Alameda, California: "I got terminated today."

I'm sorry to hear that, Deborah. I hope you're okay - though I have no doubt you are.

"Wouldn't you think that lawyers should know the law?"

They DON'T. I can't get over how little law lawyers really know.

I expected him to fight my claim. Even if he wasn't an attorney, I would think that as a business owner he would know not to ignore a UIB claim.

______________________________________________________________

I don't know what the criteria is in Colorado for obtaining UIB benefits, but in California you have to really do something detrimental to them. Lots of them don't seem to know that and come up with some stupidity about "not a good fit, performance issues, etc."

When they start coming up with all the nonsense about why they are letting you go, I've always figured they're trying to provoke you into cursing them out or something. I'm usually amused because I've almost come to expect that they'll open their big mouths and put their foot right in.

Deborah James in Alameda, California said: ______________________________________________________________

I don't know what the criteria is in Colorado for obtaining UIB benefits, but in California you have to really do something detrimental to them. Lots of them don't seem to know that and come up with some stupidity about "not a good fit, performance issues, etc."

When they start coming up with all the nonsense about why they are letting you go, I've always figured they're trying to provoke you into cursing them out or something. I'm usually amused because I've almost come to expect that they'll open their big mouths and put their foot right in.

Hi Deb - I'm sorry to hear about your getting fired. I remember once you said unemployment was like a paid vacation. So maybe this is ok with you? I was fired for the first time (excluding once when I was a high school punk) last June while working for a sole practitioner. I left SoCal so that could return to school full time, and I land a part-time job with an atty worse than any I'd ever seen in Southern CA. This guy fired all his secretaries. He told me that I need to "mother hen" him. He told me repeatedly, "You don't mother me enough." Regardless of jobloss threat, I will not treat anybody as an invalid. I wipe no butts. So he let me go, and for the first time I got UIB but only for a week.

I hope you find a job soon, or if UIB benefits really are like a paid vacation, then I hope you have a nice summer laying by your pool or at the beach. Keep us posted.

dh in Northern CA, California said: Hi Deb - I'm sorry to hear about your getting fired.

I hope you find a job soon, or if UIB benefits really are like a paid vacation, then I hope you have a nice summer laying by your pool or at the beach. Keep us posted.

_____________________________________________________________

Thanks dh. I always enjoy your posts and am glad you were able to get back into school and found something that you enjoy.

I had a message on my answering machine from an agency that is a pretty decent one. I too am going to look at getting into another field. The spoiled brattiness is really getting to be too much.

I can't believe that she didn't understand that Sheriffs are stationed whereever they are posted and that it really was a big favor for them to get the documents faxed over to us.

I still think it would be funny for her to jump on BART and do one of her "now, now, now!" numbers in a room full of huge, very in-shape sheriffs.

Fortunately, my overhead is pretty low, so I can manage on UIB for awhile and it is perfect timing to have a paid break. Although I am currently taking an Excel Formatting class and would really like to spend some time getting skilled in that program as well as Powerpoint. I like the math functions of Excel so I enjoy the class very much.

I also need to get my house organized again. The problem in working in dysfunctional, stressed environments is that it makes you so tired that you don't have much energy to do anything but collapse once you get home.

Have a good holiday weekend. Now at least I can get up in the morning and not wonder "What nonsense will it be today?"

As I've posted before, in California, the UIB seems to be aware of attorneys and their fickleness.

I'd like to believe that someone who's been practicing law for 37 years would have done the right thing and had my paycheck ready when he terminated. I'd also really like to believe that he would not be foolish enough to put in writing that my last paycheck would be deposited 9 days after the date of termination. One of the things about lousy lawyers is that they hand you ammunition to use against them. I just say "Thank you," and move on.

Not wanting to be accused of being "confrontational," I did not want to point out the law to him. I figure lawyers should know the law. I just cleared my few possessions (mainly my lunch in the frig) and gave him his keys back.

I think that the letter he gave me with a few BS allegations from the associates can also be used against them. One of the amusing things about that place was asking the court for a continuance of a trial because one of the attorneys is getting married. The clerk asked me: "Didn't she know that when the court set the trial date?"

Once again, a situation where people who are taking prescription medications are also talking about (and probably) drinking. Always a bad combination.

Well, my dogged persistence paid off. I telephoned the Labor Commissioner this morning and had my interpretation of the word "immediately" confirmed. I then emailed the head of the firm informing him of my conversation with the Labor Commissioner and quoted the relevant statute again.

They'll have my check ready for pickup this afternoon.

Wouldn't that be a gas to have a letter from the President of the Bar Association fall into the wrong hands. The Labor Commissioner thought he might have confused the rule with people who quit, who are entitled to have their checks within 72 hours. I informed her that his letter stated that the monies would be deposited in 9 days - 3 times 72 hours for a total of 216 houra. She just laughed and said "Just contact them and let them know that we do assess fines and penalties."

Deborah James in Alameda, California said: Well, my dogged persistence paid off. I telephoned the Labor Commissioner this morning and had my interpretation of the word "immediately" confirmed. I then emailed the head of the firm informing him of my conversation with the Labor Commissioner and quoted the relevant statute again.

They'll have my check ready for pickup this afternoon.

Wouldn't that be a gas to have a letter from the President of the Bar Association fall into the wrong hands. The Labor Commissioner thought he might have confused the rule with people who quit, who are entitled to have their checks within 72 hours. I informed her that his letter stated that the monies would be deposited in 9 days - 3 times 72 hours for a total of 216 houra. She just laughed and said "Just contact them and let them know that we do assess fines and penalties."

Have you ever worked in a firm where the Office Manager/Legal Assistant was a little too close to the atty? The person had lunch with the boss daily, took off whenever she wanted to, and when certain Civic functions came up, you had to carry the person's load? When you aren't carrying the other person's load, they complain to you, "don't work so fast because he thinks we need more time on some things" ? Just curious. This was a medium firm and I am used to a corporate mentality.

Are you sure you're in Texas and not across the hall from the place I just left? That's exactly what the partner's secretary did. She frequently came in late (2 to 3 hours) without calling. Took off for days at a time.

I'd spend tons of time looking for somthing that needed to be put into in a file coming up for a hearing. It turned out that she had it in a pile somewhere after I'd thoroughly looked through her "to be filed" bin and stacks - the document would magically appear.

The firm moved about a week ago. A client who had an appoitnment yesterday forgot and went to the old address. When she called to ask for directions and I was giving them to her, the immediate assumption by the partner's secretary was "So she didn't get a change of address notice." With my usual coolness I just replied "She received one. She just forgot and went to the old address. She needed directions to the new address. She wanted to let us know what had happened and that she was still coming, but would just be a few minutes late."

I think that people who call 2 hours after they're already late don't get the point of someone calling to say they'll be slightly delayed.

That place was nutty. My email yesterday was very clear and concise. The added punch to the one this morning was the calm warning that I could and would take the matter up with the Labor Commissioner and that I'd kept his letter with the erroneous payment information which would be submitted with my complaint.

I'm really in Texas. This chick knows more about the atty then his wife. When he would leave the office for court or whatever and she missed it, she would come running to my desk "where is he? Did he say when he would be back? Has he called in?" When the man left the office, he always told us "call me on my cell if you need me." For me, just pay me to do my job. I don't care where these people go or who with. Just don't let personal business bleed into my workload. When mistakes were made on something she handled, he would tell me and it always gave me joy to tell him "she processed those documents not me". Whoever handled the work, would get it back to correct. Being from a corporate background, I never discussed my personal life or business in the office. It would make her so mad. I loved the work, not the BS in the office.

JAC in San Antonio, Texas said: I'm really in Texas.

Being from a corporate background, I never discussed my personal life or business in the office. It would make her so mad. I loved the work, not the BS in the office.

--------------------------------------------------------------

That's how I am as well. My first boss was tickled pink that I'd worked for the phone company, Aetna, and the Naval Hospital because he was a firm believer that work was work, and home was home. It was a small office and I've been in small offices that operate that way.

Lots of people don't have that outlook; including some large firms.

I've now gotten 2 emails from the partner indicating that my check is ready. Since he knew my first employer and also a retired judge that I used to work for (both unfortunately now deceased) he knew I was quite serious about going to the Labor Commissioner.

Part of his letter talked about minor typos I made and how they could "potentially embarass the firm." I suppose filng things in the wrong court (one of the young 'uns did this twice); requesting continuances at the last minute for personal reasons, and having files that look like the Wreck of the Hesperus don't embarass the firm.

I was set to really embarass him and pick up a few $$$ while doing it.

I have 2 interviews tomorrow morning, so I'm resting up today. I'll also file my claim for UIB just in case.

One of the ladies who was there for awhile before me had tried to get an organized filing system. She is in my Excel class. She wouldn't talk about why she resigned and her suggestion for dealing with that massive filing backlog was to "stay late or come in early." Not without being paid overtime. Another thing the Labor Commissioner would be interested in knowing about. Misclassification of support staff to avoid paying them.

Good luck on your interviews. I wish Texas was somewhat like CA. on paying unemployment, etc. But this is a Right To Work state, which everything normally goes in favor with the employer. The corporation I retired from had the union for the non-management and because of that, we were treated better then those who work for non-union companies. In fact, when it comes to San Antonio, if any discrimination cases are filed with the EEO, most people go through Dallas or Houston. San Antonio usually kisses the azz of the employer even when its proven they are wrong.

Displaced Legal Professional in Denver, Colorado said: Colorado is not a right-to-work state - at least not yet - but employers still hold most of the cards. The State Division of Labor and Employment is fair to unemployment claimants. Years ago I took an unemployment claim to hearing. That employer lost standing to appear because it, too, blew a deadline. I prevailed anyway at hearing.

Colorado will vote on right-to-work this fall. The state has laws which already undercut unions. Of course, unions would be undercut further and employees will have less of a voice if ROW passes.

I hope Colorado votes against Right to Work. If they don't the few things people may have enjoyed will be gone. I know lots of people hate Unions. Mine was CWA -not even strong as the Teamsters. But had we not had a union, I would not have had a pension to retire with. Employers will give you as little as they have to. I worked hard for 30 yrs and I deserved everything I was able to leave with. I would get to the office at 6 a.m. and sometimes not leave until 8 p.m. or later. SBC had cut back so much, just to get things done, it was overtime. I got out just in time before they took AT&T over. Thats another story for another forum.

In a ROW environment, an employer can fire you if they don't like the color of your shoes!

Before AT&T was merged back in, the baby Bells still had good benefits. Now that Whitacre left as CEO and AT&T is the mother company again, they are eliminating positions to make seasoned workers leave and bringing in cheaper labor. Most of these younger folks can barely read and write. More and more of the employees are working under contract for a specified time. People blame Unions for all that has happened to our economy. However, the union workers are not the ones raping the corporations and taking golden parachutes when they leave.

By the way, U.S. West and Nynex (NY) would be the only 2 companies left to merge back into AT&T and put it all back together again. I think part of those 2 have been merged with Verizon and other companies.

Getting back to attys who don't seem to know Labor laws and such, I think they think once a worker if fired (justified or not) that worker wouldn't dare file a complaint against them! Sadly, some people won't. But there are others that will, thank goodness.

JAC in San Antonio, Texas said: I hope Colorado votes against Right to Work. If they don't the few things people may have enjoyed will be gone. I know lots of people hate Unions. Mine was CWA -not even strong as the Teamsters. But had we not had a union, I would not have had a pension to retire with. Employers will give you as little as they have to. I worked hard for 30 yrs and I deserved everything I was able to leave with. I would get to the office at 6 a.m. and sometimes not leave until 8 p.m. or later. SBC had cut back so much, just to get things done, it was overtime. I got out just in time before they took AT&T over. Thats another story for another forum.

In a ROW environment, an employer can fire you if they don't like the color of your shoes!

______________________________________________________________

That's the nature of "at will" employment. I worked for the phone company when it was Pacific Telephone Company and Southwest Bell (in the southeast). I remember when they split into SBC and AT&T. People who started 6 months after I did (November of 69) received notices to take retirement or be laid off. A lot of people got some good deals out of it. One lady left with a year's severance package in addition to her pension and the right to collect unemployment insurance.

I was a CWA member as well.

JAC in San Antonio, Texas said:

Getting back to attys who don't seem to know Labor laws and such, I think they think once a worker if fired (justified or not) that worker wouldn't dare file a complaint against them! Sadly, some people won't. But there are others that will, thank goodness.

_____________________________________________________________

Hello!!! I get a perverse thrill out of letting them know that if I decide to play games, I'll bring the big boys in with me. Last year, I was in an accident. I was insured, it was a valid claim, however I had to bring in the Insurance Commissioner to force the insurance company to pay the hospital. The hospital billed them late June but did not get paid until the Insurance Commissioner stepped in in late October. They finally got paid in mid December.

Earlier this year, I had elected Cobra coverage from an earlier job. When the rates increased by more than 100%, I canceled the coverage. The company stil took $928 out of my checking account. I wrote to them and called them to no avail. When I complained to the BBB in Dallas (where the company is based), they immediately refunded my money. Yesterday, I heard from the Insurance Commissioner regarding the matter. I'd requested their help as well. I let them know it had been resolved but thanked them for their willingness to help.

Displaced Legal Professional in Denver, Colorado said: It sounds like federal Wage & Hour Board time!

I recall learning that if one employee complains about a company not paying overtime and the Wage & Hour Board finds that to be the case, every employee who worked at the company at that time will receive all back overtime.

______________________________________________________________

True. Also, as our Texas buddy points out, many people are afraid to confront a company. Let one person pull it off, and the place gets snowballed with complaints. That's how class action lawsuits come about as well.

I will always remember a speaker from the legal secretaries association addressing a group at a legal conerence about the proper and improper ways of treating support staff:

"The ladies who've been around for awhile won't tolerate it. Not only that, they'll bad mouth you all over town."

Deborah James in Alameda, California said: ______________________________________________________________

True. Also, as our Texas buddy points out, many people are afraid to confront a company. Let one person pull it off, and the place gets snowballed with complaints. That's how class action lawsuits come about as well.

I will always remember a speaker from the legal secretaries association addressing a group at a legal conerence about the proper and improper ways of treating support staff:

"The ladies who've been around for awhile won't tolerate it. Not only that, they'll bad mouth you all over town."

That's right. In the business of an atty, word of mouth can make or break their business. The younger people of today, they don't have the fight in them that some of us seasoned people have. We've had to fight against many odds just in our own short lifetimes. I will not let some POS atty make me feel inferior because he/she is an idiot and thinks I won't do whats legal to get them. Whether they realize it or not, they aren't teflon!!! When an atty is wrong, the atty is wrong. But its not going to be at my expense.

Displaced Legal Professional in Denver, Colorado said: I know the following will sound old-fashioned, but I'm an old-fashioned kind of guy with an old-fashioned work ethic. I look at it this way. As long as I'm working for someone and that person's signature is on my paycheck, I should be nice to that person, even that person is not nice to me. But after I leave that person's employ, I no longer give a sh!t. I don't have to be so nice anymore.

______________________________________________________________

True, but it's a two way street. As long as an employee is coming to work, doing their job, and trying to assist the company, he or she also deserves to be treated with respect. People who are treated well have a sense of company loyalty and will work harder. That's what a lot of these younger attorneys don't seem to know. (and a few of the older ones)

That's why I said I'm beginning to get a perverse pleasure out of rubbing their noses in their own poop.

They also don't understand that when people who are calm get ticked, they could care less about your inept skills at business and management and will throw every legal remedy in the book at you and make it stick.

I still have to complete my application for UIB. I've got some more tidbits to rub their noses in.

I'm right up my alley. When I had my Document Assistant business, I assisted people who were going to the Unemployment Appeals Board, the Disability Appeals Board, and occasionally Worker's comp.

Judges love me. I always have my evidence prepared, neatly arranged, and I am deadly calm.

Judges (who are also lawyers) want to be thought of as logical, whether they are or not. Simply present them with irrefutable evidence and watch the bullies squirm when reprimanded.

Bullying in the workplace is becoming a hot ticket item, it's going to be interesting to see where it goes legally, especially since it's been proven to have a deleterious effect on a person's health.

JAC in San Antonio, Texas said:

I will not let some POS atty make me feel inferior because he/she is an idiot and thinks I won't do whats legal to get them.

______________________________________________________________

Before I let my imagination run wild on acronyms does POS mean "piece of ...." like I think it does?

LOL!!!!

Displaced Legal Professional in Denver, Colorado said: I know the following will sound old-fashioned, but I'm an old-fashioned kind of guy with an old-fashioned work ethic. I look at it this way. As long as I'm working for someone and that person's signature is on my paycheck, I should be nice to that person, even that person is not nice to me. But after I leave that person's employ, I no longer give a sh!t. I don't have to be so nice anymore.

I would have gone to hearing without hesitation had my last employer fought me on UIB. That SOB once told me I was timid. I think he had confused "timid" with "respectful" and "cooperative" - but that's par from a litigator whose world turns on confrontation. Such timid I would have shown to that SOB at hearing, I assure you.

Don't get me wrong about confronting a company. When I work for someone, I give them my all and do my job 100%. I will watch your back and be a team player. But if you break labor laws at my expense, I will be sure to work legally and accordingly so that know they cannot just screw someone over because they think they are God and teflon. That dog don't hunt.

Yes, Deb. POS means what you think it does :D SOS is in the same neighborhood....lol.

You are correct about bullying in the workplace. It doesn't just stop in the legal field. Corporations do it as well. When I worked for SBC, I supported and Account Mgr. who had no people skills and even bullied customers. When she played her game on me, she lost badly. Like I said, I will give 100% on my job and watch your back. However, people are not to be bullied. In short, she was fired. Not just because of me. She had customers complaining to the CEO and then when I got through getting to her on the labor side, she knew she was done.

JAC in San Antonio, Texas said: You are correct about bullying in the workplace. It doesn't just stop in the legal field. Corporations do it as well. When I worked for SBC, I supported and Account Mgr. who had no people skills and even bullied customers. When she played her game on me, she lost badly. Like I said, I will give 100% on my job and watch your back. However, people are not to be bullied. In short, she was fired. Not just because of me. She had customers complaining to the CEO and then when I got through getting to her on the labor side, she knew she was done.

Wow. That must've been sweet.

dh in Northern CA, California said: Wow. That must've been sweet.

I can tell you when I have run into at a store, she approaches me more politely and cautiously. People deserve to be treated politely. After she left the company, she had already burned bridges with companies in town it was hard for her to get a job. I think she sells real estate now. I wouldn't hire her as an agent because she has a tendency to include items in a sale never discussed.

dh in Northern CA, California said: Wow. That must've been sweet.

_______________________________________________________________

I'm sure. One of the young'uns yelled at a client once. The managing partner got on her case about it because the client complained to him that she wasn't paying good money to be talked to so rudely.

In short, the youngsters had the manners of pigs and were upset that I would just look at them like they were nutcases.

People involved in lawsuits are stressed out enough already without people behaving so abrasively; especially by attorneys who don't know what they're doing.

There were awfully quiet when I went in to pick up my check yesterday. Guess they realized that I had no qualms about taking their foolishness public. I'm glad the managing partner wasn't stupid enough to continue withholding my check. I'm going to politely cut them up in my UIB application as well, making sure to mention the illegal suggestions (insistence on the part of one) that I stay late to catch up on their filing backlog without the benefit of being paid. I have no problems whatsoever exposing fools.

I've posted before about the guy I did contract work for who yelled and bullied the clients as well as the staff. I later found out that he dropped dead in the office during one of his rant and rave sessions from a massive heart attack.

Sorry DLP, but that's what he gets. Maybe the rest of the looneytunes will follow shortly.

On Tuesday afternoon, there was a "mystery client" interview. Went I went in yesterday, she was sitting at my desk (poor thing). There had also been calls from agencies regarding the "legal secretary" opening.

About a month ago, I intercepted an email sent to someone who'd submitted her resume about how I was not working out. I approached one of the attorneys about it and said that it was fine with me, except that I'd have to start scheduling interviews. I was told "that was before, things are working out now, etc, etc."

One of the questions on the UIB form is "were you warned?" The answer is no. They thought they were sneaking around my back, except they are as sloppy with that as they are with their lawyering.

I have to think of some nice phrase to say that they are liars. Guess I'll use "incorrect statements."

One of them had a hissy fit because I'd inserted bar codes on the envelopes as the software allows you to do. She marked huge circles around them and had to be told what they were. Her response "Oh."

When I get through them on my UIB application, they'll look like the buffoons that they are. Hope the managing partner is not dumb enough to oppose my claim, because I'll have a field day with them in an appeal. I can use the paid time off to work on my classes.

One of the firms I interview with today is a firm handling tenant rights and employmee rights. Those are areas I have an interest in and there's certainly a lot going on in those areas.

These bully types are having a field day in this economy.

I've thought about going back into that work, but all the attys here now each other. Plus when they call to check, the Office Mgr/Legal Asst. has a tendency to gossip and tell everyone's personal business. Plus she knows most of the office personnel in other offices and loves to gossip. I left on my own accord. In fact, I had just gotten my yearly bonus and a small raise.