What are the best litigation paralegal qualifications and training to get ahead?

What is the best training for becoming a litigation paralegal? What types of ongoing training or certifications are necessary to be an effective litigation paralegal?

What do non-traditional career paths look like?

At the very least, you need a two-year degree and a paralegal certificate. An ABA-approved paralegal certificate and a four-year degree are better. Good writing and grammar skills are an absolute must. Strong computer abilities, excellent organization skills and good people skills are essential.

Those qualifications are basic. You also need forged-iron skin, nerves of titanium and magician training. Litigation is extremely stressful and demands many long hours. Based on my nearly seven years of litigation experience, one routinely must pull off miracles and pull rabbits out of hats to be a good litigation paralegal.

Litigation attorneys are among the most difficult people walking the Earth. Among other things, they can be immature, moody, rude, abrupt, acerbic, anal, exceedingly demanding and exceedingly ungrateful.

I would not recommend civil litigation to my worst enemy, primarily because the personalities involved. Consider another speciality if you're hell-bent on becoming a paralegal.

I SECOND THAT!! Hello, Displaced Legal. To the Host, please take his advice seriously because he knows what he's talking about!! I have my paralegal certificate from UCLA; I've never used it. Entry level jobs were paying $12-$14/hr at the time, and I was already making $14; so I took a word processing job at $18/hr and moved on to secretarial crap thereafter. I didn't do the proper research before entering the industry and grew to thoroughly hate it very quickly. For me, earning my paralegal certificate was $3k down the drain. I had no coworkers - neither paralegals nor secretaries - who liked their jobs. Litigation is by far the worst; that's where you'll find the most foul-temepered attys. My close friend, a paralegal in Orange County, wrote me recently, "I'd rather burn myself alive than choose this profession all over again." After 5 1/2 years in the field, I could take it no more. I moved to Northern CA where cost of living is cheaper. I'm a full time student and work 20 hrs/week. I'm depleting my entire life savings and accruing massive debt at 40 when I should be saving for retirement so that I can retire at a decent age. With this debt, I'll work until I'm 70. I don't care; I want to live the rest of my life having a job - a career - I enjoy. Besides, paralegal and secretary jobs don't pay enough to prepare a decent retirement anyways. It's nothing but a JOB - Just Over Broke. I suggest you develop a CAREER instead.

Any nonlawyer position is dead-end. There's no room for advancement, and contrary to popular belief, the pay is NOT good. Even if it was good pay, if you hate what you do, the money doesn't matter. Take a look at other threads on this website, especially the secretary threads. My advice is not only should you reconsider litigation but reconsider entering this industry altogether.

dh in Northern CA, California: " I have my paralegal certificate from UCLA...."

Just curious about the course. Was it any good? College credit? ABA approved?

"Litigation is by far the worst; that's where you'll find the most foul-tempered attys...."

Yes. Some of these individuals are unbelievable. Six years ago, a partner in my then-firm became enraged because he couldn't make his phone work. He threw the phone at his paralegal-office manager. She quit on the spot. I should say I did not witness this event; two other paralegals told me about it. Knowing this individual (who could also be an alright guy), I don't doubt it in the least.

I worked in on-air radio for several years. The partner for whom I worked frequently commented negatively on my voice. He mocked it to me at least once. I got this individual back, however. He made another comment; I retorted, proudly, "XX years in radio!" :p At times we didn't get along, but our relationship was really far better than *he* thought and we were productive together.

"Any nonlawyer position is dead-end. There's no room for advancement, and contrary to popular belief, the pay is NOT good. Even if it was good pay, if you hate what you do, the money doesn't matter."

I agree and disagree. Some nonlawyers have advanced to law firm management. The two legal secretaries who went with their attorneys when the attorneys started their own firm eventually became the firm administrators. Of course, they were in the right place at the right time. The firm eventually became a large law firm in downtown Denver.

An extremely capable paralegal in my former litigation firm is also office manager. She is perfect for the job. But, generally, the best a paralegal can be in most firms is...a paralegal. All nonlawyers are barred ethically from becoming partners or shareholders of law firms.

Continued next post....

Continued from previous post....

According to ads and postings I've seen, paralegals here can make $55K. I set forth a $48K-$54K salary expectation at a couple of interviews. The interviewers weren't fazed. I realize that kind of money is chicken feed in SoCal, dh. But it sounds awfully good to me after being paid only $40K with eleven years of experience.

After writing all this, I agree with dh. Stay out of litigation. The foul tempers, bad personalities and overall aggravation just aren't worth it IMHO. Lawyers in other specialties may not be as bad. After working in two other specialities, I can tell you they can exhibit similar borderline-sociopathic traits from time to time.

Good luck with school, dh.

Displaced Legal Professional in Denver, Colorado said: Continued from previous post....

According to ads and postings I've seen, paralegals here can make $55K. I set forth a $48K-$54K salary expectation at a couple of interviews. The interviewers weren't fazed. I realize that kind of money is chicken feed in SoCal, dh. But it sounds awfully good to me after being paid only $40K with eleven years of experience.

After writing all this, I agree with dh. Stay out of litigation. The foul tempers, bad personalities and overall aggravation just aren't worth it IMHO. Lawyers in other specialties may not be as bad. After working in two other specialities, I can tell you they can exhibit similar borderline-sociopathic traits from time to time.

Good luck with school, dh.

Hi Displaced Legal - The salary range you mentioned isn't quite "chicken feed"! LOL. Where I have relocated, it's actually pretty decent.

To answer your question about UCLA's paralegal program, it's ABA approved, and you are a warded 34 quarter units of postgraduate professional credit once you graduate. I don't know how this works if one wanted to transfer these credits and apply them to graduate work at a state university. You don't need a bachelor's degree to be accepted to the program, but you do need to have completed 60 semester units, including English composition, plus pass an entrance test. It's been around since 1970. It has a great reputation, but, of course, I regret going thru the program. The money I spent could have been used toward a bachelors degree in something totally unrelated to legal!! That's what I get for not doing the very necessary research in advance.

Thank you for wishing me luck with school. I start state university Jan 28th and look forward to it.

Thanks for the info. The UCLA program sounds like one needs the equivalent of an Associate's degree for entrance. It also sounds like it was one of the first paralegal programs.

Once again, dh, good luck with school.

Do you know anyone who has attended the Paralegal program at Hickey College in St. Louis? Do they have evening classes?
I've been working as a Legal Secretary for 21 years and would like to move forward as a Paralegal. My position as a Legal Secretary is very very slow and I am capable of so much more.
Thanks.

Linda in Saint Louis, Missouri: "I've been working as a Legal Secretary for 21 years and would like to move forward as a Paralegal. My position as a Legal Secretary is very, very slow and I am capable of so much more."

IMHO you should think over becoming a paralegal very carefully. Read all reasons why you should not in the posts above. Further, in some firms legal secretaries are held in higher esteem than paralegals and oftentimes **make more money than paralegals.**

In a great many firms paralegals bill and you know from working with attorneys the pressure they're under to bill. Paralegals are no different. To bill "enough" time one must spend even more time in the office - probably way more than the hours to which you're accustomed as a legal secretary.

Moreover, in my first firm attorneys reviewed paralegal billings and would cut their time. I spent a week on one project and billed thirty hours on it. The attorney cut EVERY ONE of my damn hours! In effect, I lost an entire week of work even though I was slaving away the entire time. The next week I attended a scheduled mini-review. The shareholder took me to task for not billing any time that week, which was absolutely, positively untrue.

Believe me, paralegal is no bed of roses, and, with few exceptions, is a dead-end. I strongly urge you to look outside of law if you feel you are capable of being more than a legal secretary. Good luck with the direction you decide to take.

Thank you for your valuable information, I really appreciate it.

Displaced Legal Professional in Denver, Colorado said: Thanks for the info. The UCLA program sounds like one needs the equivalent of an Associate's degree for entrance. It also sounds like it was one of the first paralegal programs.

Once again, dh, good luck with school.

Thank you.

Host said: What is the best training for becoming a litigation paralegal? What types of ongoing training or certifications are necessary to be an effective litigation paralegal?

What do non-traditional career paths look like?

It's important to be Certified and a college degree in almost any major is acceptable. UCLA has a fantastic Paralegal program! UC Berkeley & UC Davis "now" have a very online program (thought it costs about $6,000). I know that a Certified Paralegal with a min. of an AA degree at a top law firm makes about $50,000 - $60,000 in St. Louis!

Does anyone out there know what it's like to work for Great West Healthcare/Life Ins. Company? How are their salaries?

Thanks very much.

Lindsay in Saint Louis, Missouri: "Does anyone out there know what it's like to work for Great West Healthcare/Life Ins. Company? How are their salaries?"

I interviewed with Great-West in Denver a year ago. The HR person with whom I met was very nice. She gave a handout on benies, which are lush. The campus is huge. It is said you are interviewing a company as much as it is interviewing you. I thought one of my two interviewers wasn't especially professional. I could tell he didn't go for me, either. In all fairness, I was being interviewed for job for which I wasn't really qualified. In any event, I was less than impressed with Great-West and it's not sour grapes from being rejected. Your mileage may vary.

Displaced Legal Professional in Denver, Colorado said: "Any nonlawyer position is dead-end. There's no room for advancement, and contrary to popular belief, the pay is NOT good. Even if it was good pay, if you hate what you do, the money doesn't matter."

I agree and disagree. Some nonlawyers have advanced to law firm management. /[QUOTE]/

I would say that very few nonlawyers advance to Firm Andministrator positions. Why? How many Administraors does it take to manage a firm? A top salary for Firm Administrator in Large FIrm is $70K. From there is has to fall - but perhaps not as demanding as being a Paralegal.

FOr a single girl, who plays her cards right, and gets the added ingredient of luck and timing, she can meet a man with a very good job, get married, and eventually be out of this legal industry. Low and behold, professional men do hold the Paralegal in higher esteem than the "secretary" - not always. That was my plan for being a Paralegal. Met the men with money, just had no chemistry for these particular fellows. Thus I failed to meet my intended goal of being a Paralegal. I know many Paralegals who have met that goal, now have happy and much easier lives.

No, Cindy, you did not fail at being a paralegal. You were employed as one for ten years. For sure, you did not have an easy go of it, but because you were employed as a paralegal you did not fail.

Displaced Legal Professional in Denver, Colorado said: No, Cindy, you did not fail at being a paralegal. You were employed as one for ten years. For sure, you did not have an easy go of it, but because you were employed as a paralegal you did not fail.

Thank you DLP. - To coin one of your terms, just "dunno" - frankly do not want to know - I am looking into House Flipping, being an extra on a moview set, and continuing to keep up my looks - the knowledge I have from law. Oh, I was employed as a Paralegal(and not making trial binders for the substance of my work, yuk) and I was also quickly Unemployed. Trust me - a rollercoaster ride I will never go on again - . Live and learn- I lived the Paralegal life, in spurts - but I never learned how to keep a job. It is over now. My bizarro life.

Displaced Legal Professional in Denver, Colorado said: No, Cindy, you did not fail at being a paralegal. You were employed as one for ten years. For sure, you did not have an easy go of it, but because you were employed as a paralegal you did not fail.

Hum - It cannot be said thta I was able to get employment as a Paralegal. Unfortunately - I lacked a certain kind of skill to keep my job.

Skilled at getting a job, skilled at doing the job - not skilled at keeping the job. This blog has made me see the obvious.

I agree with the saying - if you find yourself changing jobs every 6 months - it is not the boss it is You. Thus Me - The "Who I am, Me - was causing my downfall. And I was unable to change it.Because I could not identify it. that is not cool.

I've been a legal secretary for over 10 years and have worked in various secretarial capacities during my career of over 30 years. Whether an admin. assist., executive assistant or "legal assistant," - you can take your show on the road and make a decent living and work for great people. Why mention the ones that were not?

I've considered taking the UC Berkeley on-line paralegal program - for my own education and to enhance my skills - not to become a "paralegal." Does anyone have information on this program? Up front, it sounds like a crash course and is very expensive.

Teresa in Ventura, California: "I've been a legal secretary for over 10 years and have worked in various secretarial capacities during my career of over 30 years. Whether an admin. assist., executive assistant or 'legal assistant,' - you can take your show on the road and make a decent living and work for great people. Why mention the ones that were not?"

Because they warrant mentioning. Paralegal wannabes should think over that career choice carefully. It's filled with pratfalls for the unwary.

You have apparently led a charmed existence during your legal career. Define "great people."

You have probably collected all the experience, knowledge and skills you need already to be a legal secretary. Don't waste your time and money on paralegal school if you don't want to become one. Good luck.

I have looked into the "Berkeley" online Paralegal course myself, I was impressed compared to many other Paralegal courses...however, as I understand it, you pay for the entire course up front and it costs about $7,000 (you probably already know that). It depends upon your age and many more years you plan to work. I believe a Paralegal position would be a stable income for many years (even if the attorneys are unpleasant to work for...at least it's a nice income).

Legal Secretary's are almost a thing of the past where I work...but, not so for the Paralegals.

Dear Displaced in Denver,

You sound so unhappy and negative or perhaps on the edge of burnout. Try temping...you could have a new adventure every week or so...just a thought.

I know... I've been unhappy in my job too until I didn't have one for 6 months and no place to live, boy oh boy, did my attitude change.

What is your true passion? I had difficulty finding mine...good luck!

Cindy in Saint Louis, Missouri: "You sound so unhappy and negative or perhaps on the edge of burnout."

Have you worked in the legal profession? It's not a matter of being unhappy or negative. Some people are Pollyannas; I'm not. It's absolutely a matter of hard, cold reality, Others on Indeed fora have had similar experience. Read the board.

"Try temping...you could have a new adventure every week or so...just a thought."

I don't deal with headhunter crap. I don't countenance liars and deceivers. You must be younger and enjoy adventure. I don't. If I'm going to work I need a regular job with real benefits.

Lin in Saint Louis, Missouri: "I believe a Paralegal position would be a stable income for many years (even if the attorneys are unpleasant to work for...at least it's a nice income)."

You believe incorrectly. No job is stable anymore in any industry. Job security does not exist anymore. It hasn't existed for years.

The attorney I worked for in my last firm was very unpleasant many a time, but I held onto my job for nearly seven years. Then, unexpectedly, my employment at that firm ended.

Unless one can get into a major firm, one will have trouble getting paid commensurate with one's abilities. My last job was in a small firm. I was underpaid for five of the seven years I was at that firm.

"Legal Secretaries are almost a thing of the past where I work...but, not so for the Paralegals."

Many attorneys, especially younger ones, have become computer literate. Many of them can word-process and print their own work, so they need less legal secretarial support. Of course, legal secretaries may support multiple attorneys when, in the past, each attorney would have a secretary.

Further, in many firms, much legal secretarial work has been dumped on paralegals. Just the same, around here there are still many legal secretary openings but not nearly as many as I had seen even a year to two ago.

To "Displaced in Colorado" - I'm "grandfathered" in as a paralegal in California, but continue to take courses that are pertinent and useful in my profession and employment. Just make sure it's worth the money and time.

I prefer not to go into a litany of those who were less than gracious, nor to focus on them. It has nothing to do with having led "a charmed existence." There have been plenty of rough, painful times, and difficult people. It's a matter of getting through and managing or moving on. I tend to focus on the positive and the "greats."

As to Berkeley - it's about $8,000 and sounds like a "crash" course. I'm still checking out information and looking for feedback.

Thanks.

Displaced Legal Professional in Denver, Colorado said: Teresa in Ventura, California: "I've been a legal secretary for over 10 years and have worked in various secretarial capacities during my career of over 30 years. Whether an admin. assist., executive assistant or 'legal assistant,' - you can take your show on the road and make a decent living and work for great people. Why mention the ones that were not?"

Because they warrant mentioning. Paralegal wannabes should think over that career choice carefully. It's filled with pratfalls for the unwary.

You have apparently led a charmed existence during your legal career. Define "great people."

You have probably collected all the experience, knowledge and skills you need already to be a legal secretary. Don't waste your time and money on paralegal school if you don't want to become one. Good luck.

I stand by my comments. Thanks for posting.

Cindy in Saint Louis, Missouri said: Dear Displaced in Denver,

You sound so unhappy and negative or perhaps on the edge of burnout. Try temping...you could have a new adventure every week or so...just a thought.

I know... I've been unhappy in my job too until I didn't have one for 6 months and no place to live, boy oh boy, did my attitude change.

To DLP and Cindy in Sait Louis, MS - Cindy, as you know, we all walk in different shoes.

And to Cindy - I lost a job in 6 months, due to a very intense attorney (I am a paralegal) he turned me into a nervous wreck, and I needed my paycheck - and soon I was homeless living in a motel, till i found a roomate situation. And during that time, I had a breakdown. I had a good attitude when I walked in - I did the best I could with the cirumstances I had. THAT is all I have to say. TY

Displaced Legal Professional in Denver, Colorado said: I stand by my comments. Thanks for posting.

It could not have been that bad for Cindy. She lasted 30 years. Snaps for Cindy.
Others are not so fortunate, even with a good attitude.

How did you end up with no job? just curious.

Displaced Legal Professional in Denver, Colorado said: "Moreover, in my first firm attorneys reviewed paralegal billings and would cut their time. I spent a week on one project and billed thirty hours on it. The attorney cut EVERY ONE of my damn hours! In effect, I lost an entire week of work even though I was slaving away the entire time. The next week I attended a scheduled mini-review. The shareholder took me to task for not billing any time that week, which was absolutely, positively untrue..

Wow - unbelievable - all 30 hours cut. AND TO BOOT HE reamed you. How could that be except , he said so. Not one task completed in 30 hours was the creation of a document. I know there is a lot of administrative work to do to create a doocument - but - I gather there had to be some billable time - which shareholder said "none". THat was a bad day.

kmm in Wilmington, Delaware said: It could not have been that bad for Cindy. She lasted 30 years. Snaps for Cindy.
Others are not so fortunate, even with a good attitude.

How did you end up with no job? just curious.

STRIKE COMMENT - incorrect information

Cindy in Saint Louis, Missouri said: Dear Displaced in Denver,

You sound so unhappy and negative or perhaps on the edge of burnout. Try temping...you could have a new adventure every week or so...just a thought.

I know... I've been unhappy in my job too until I didn't have one for 6 months and no place to live, boy oh boy, did my attitude change.

What is your true passion? I had difficulty finding mine...good luck!

Cindy - hope you never run into a bad siuation causing job loss again. At least with a better financial situation. no place to live is the worst - when it comes to losing a job.

kmm in Wilmington, Delaware: "Wow - unbelievable - all 30 hours cut. AND TO BOOT HE reamed you. How could that be except, he said so. Not one task completed in 30 hours was the creation of a document. I know there is a lot of administrative work to do to create a doocument - but - I gather there had to be some billable time - which shareholder said 'none.' That was a bad day."

I had worse days.

To clarify a point, the associate who assigned the project also reviewed the bills. He cut my hours. A few days later I had my mini-review. At that time the sole shareholder, female, took me to task for not billing that week. Again, that was absolutely, positively untrue.

I was laid off after 14 years in Corporate Law (in-house)...it was September 2001, need I say more?

I'm sorry to hear about your layoff. I hope you've found something since that time.

Best wishes.

Displaced Legal Professional in Denver, Colorado said: At the very least, you need a two-year degree and a paralegal certificate. An ABA-approved paralegal certificate and a four-year degree are better. Good writing and grammar skills are an absolute must. Strong computer abilities, excellent organization skills and good people skills are essential.

Those qualifications are basic. You also need forged-iron skin, nerves of titanium and magician training. Litigation is extremely stressful and demands many long hours. Based on my nearly seven years of litigation experience, one routinely must pull off miracles and pull rabbits out of hats to be a good litigation paralegal.

Litigation attorneys are among the most difficult people walking the Earth. Among other things, they can be immature, moody, rude, abrupt, acerbic, anal, exceedingly demanding and exceedingly ungrateful.

I would not recommend civil litigation to my worst enemy, primarily because the personalities involved. Consider another speciality if you're hell-bent on becoming a paralegal.

r u serious, i was so excited about being a paralegal and you tell me this?

Yes. As serious as a heart attack. Of course, your mileage may vary.

The State Bar of California is in charge of attorney licensing in that state. Try contacting it for more information.

I will; thank you.

Linda in Saint Louis, Missouri said: Do you know anyone who has attended the Paralegal program at Hickey College in St. Louis? Do they have evening classes?
I've been working as a Legal Secretary for 21 years and would like to move forward as a Paralegal. My position as a Legal Secretary is very very slow and I am capable of so much more.
Thanks.

Hello Linda -

As a 10 year Paralegal, DO not do it. 21 years and it is slow. BE happy - Legal jobs are notorius for burning you out.

I agree with DPL. Seek a position outside of legal.

Teresa in Ventura, California in Los Angeles, California said: To "Displaced in Colorado" - I'm "grandfathered" in as a paralegal in California, but continue to take courses that are pertinent and useful in my profession and employment. Just make sure it's worth the money and time.

I prefer not to go into a litany of those who were less than gracious, nor to focus on them. It has nothing to do with having led "a charmed existence." There have been plenty of rough, painful times, and difficult people. It's a matter of getting through and managing or moving on. I tend to focus on the positive and the "greats."

As to Berkeley - it's about $8,000 and sounds like a "crash" course. I'm still checking out information and looking for feedback.

Thanks.

Hello - I am a 10 year experienced Paralegal.

If you are grandfathered in - why do you feel the need to 'VALIDATE' yourself with seemingly wanting the title of "PARALEGAL" ?

I agree with you, Cindy, but Deborah would be a good person to answer that question. I suspect California paralegals come under state regulations not encountered in other states. Perhaps California awards some kind credential to grandfathered paralegals who obtain added education.

Otherwise, that poster's years of experience and "grandfathering" should obviate any need for a paralegal certificate. Ya think?

Displaced Legal Professional in Denver, Colorado said: I agree with you, Cindy, but Deborah would be a good person to answer that question. I suspect California paralegals come under state regulations not encountered in other states. Perhaps California awards some kind credential to grandfathered paralegals who obtain added education.

Otherwise, that poster's years of experience and "grandfathering" should obviate any need for a paralegal certificate. Ya think?

Actually, I have no idea about grandfathering in. I was born and raised in California, but spent 18 years in Seattle, then on to Colorado, via a couple year stop over in Arizona. I just moved back to California in April. For many years I wanted the "title" and my office administrator told me she paid me more as a secretary and I was more valuable to her as a secretary. It wasn't until I left Seattle that I took an online course through Washington Online Institute, and got that "piece of paper with my name on it". I used it briefly in Arizona, but then the position was really that of a legal secretary. I was in the Springs in Colorado and couldn't find a job as a legal secretary, so ended up as a Real Estate Assistant. Now that I'm back home, I have been told (by a headhunter) that I have committed career suicide and my resume screams "rebel". As far as those of you wanting to be a paralegal, or even a legal secretary, take everyone's advise, find something more satisfying. I was at a firm for a long time, off and on. When I got burnt out, I would leave for awhile, but I was always able to go back. Attorneys, and the legal staffing companies are even worse, all think that unless you show stability and recent experience in a particular state, then you don't have the brains to do their job. Hello, I worked primarily in federal litigation. Besides that, after 20 years, a person knows where to go and find current local rules and procedures.

Displaced Legal Professional in Denver, Colorado said: I agree with you, Cindy, but Deborah would be a good person to answer that question. I suspect California paralegals come under state regulations not encountered in other states. Perhaps California awards some kind credential to grandfathered paralegals who obtain added education.

Otherwise, that poster's years of experience and "grandfathering" should obviate any need for a paralegal certificate. Ya think?

I agree here, don't waste the money if you are already working as a paralegal. Unless you really feel the need to have that piece of paper, for a job hop or something. Believe me, you will need to job hop.

It goes with this wonderful industry.

driley in Menifee, California said: Actually, I have no idea about grandfathering in. I was born and raised in California, but spent 18 years in Seattle, then on to Colorado, via a couple year stop over in Arizona. I just moved back to California in April. For many years I wanted the "title" and my office administrator told me she paid me more as a secretary and I was more valuable to her as a secretary. It wasn't until I left Seattle that I took an online course through Washington Online Institute, and got that "piece of paper with my name on it". I used it briefly in Arizona, but then the position was really that of a legal secretary. I was in the Springs in Colorado and couldn't find a job as a legal secretary, so ended up as a Real Estate Assistant. Now that I'm back home, I have been told (by a headhunter) that I have committed career suicide and my resume screams "rebel". As far as those of you wanting to be a paralegal, or even a legal secretary, take everyone's advise, find something more satisfying. I was at a firm for a long time, off and on. When I got burnt out, I would leave for awhile, but I was always able to go back. Attorneys, and the legal staffing companies are even worse, all think that unless you show stability and recent experience in a particular state, then you don't have the brains to do their job. Hello, I worked primarily in federal litigation. Besides that, after 20 years, a person knows where to go and find current local rules and procedures.

I want to apologize, I'm cranky today - got turned down by a law firm, even though I was told I was exactly what they were looking for, someone else had "more recent" experience. It is so frustrating. Excuse me for not HAVING to work consistently for the past few years, and enjoying life. Now I'm ready to actually go to work so we can really enjoy life, and I'm being punished for my "rebel" lifestyle. Today, I actually am acting like a rebel! :)

Here is information about being "grandfathered in" in Califonia. Note, that if you have only a high school diploma, you must have completed the requisite experience by 2003. Holders of Bachelor's degrees can still be "grandfathered in" after 1 year of experience.

(3) A baccalaureate degree or an advanced degree in any subject, a
minimum of one year of law-related experience under the supervision
of an attorney who has been an active member of the State Bar of
California for at least the preceding three years or who has
practiced in the federal courts of this state for at least the
preceding three years, and a written declaration from this attorney
stating that the person is qualified to perform paralegal tasks.
(4) A high school diploma or general equivalency diploma, a
minimum of three years of law-related experience under the
supervision of an attorney who has been an active member of the State
Bar of California for at least the preceding three years or who has
practiced in the federal courts of this state for at least the
preceding three years, and a written declaration from this attorney
stating that the person is qualified to perform paralegal tasks. This
experience and training shall be completed no later than December
31, 2003.

The grandfathering in portion of the code applying to persons with a high school diploma was meant to include the numerous "legal secretaries" that had been performing paralegal tasks before there were even paralegal schools, or very few.

The early legal secretaries were somewhat of a combination "Legal Secretary and Law Clerk" and had tremendous responsibility in the law office.

I"ve always figured that was the problem of a lot of these younger attorneys. Their ideas about secretaries date back to stereotypes from the 40s.

Thanks Deborah for clarify this. I thought I was being asked - I'm also a Deborah. Didn't have a clue.

driley in Menifee, California: "I was in the Springs in Colorado and couldn't find a job as a legal secretary, so ended up as a Real Estate Assistant...."

Yeah. No surprise. Getting a law job in Colorado is just about impossible - not that anyone in his/her right mind would want a law job. However,

"Now that I'm back home, I have been told (by a headhunter) that I have committed career suicide and my resume screams 'rebel."

Of course it does. You betcha. Anything a headhunter says is true and reliable, right??

Don't believe everything you hear, particularly from a headhunter. As you put it,

"Attorneys, and the legal staffing companies are even worse, all think that unless you show stability and recent experience in a particular state, then you don't have the brains to do their job. Hello, I worked primarily in federal litigation. Besides that, after 20 years, a person knows where to go and find current local rules and procedures."

I should think so. But, again, why bother with this wonderful industry? I read your followup post to the to which I am responding.

Deborah James in Alameda, California said: Here is information about being "grandfathered in" in Califonia. Note, that if you have only a high school diploma, you must have completed the requisite experience by 2003. Holders of Bachelor's degrees can still be "grandfathered in" after 1 year of experience.

(3) A baccalaureate degree or an advanced degree in any subject, a
minimum of one year of law-related experience under the supervision
of an attorney who has been an active member of the State Bar of
California for at least the preceding three years or who has
practiced in the federal courts of this state for at least the
preceding three years, and a written declaration from this attorney
stating that the person is qualified to perform paralegal tasks.
(4) A high school diploma or general equivalency diploma, a
minimum of three years of law-related experience under the
supervision of an attorney who has been an active member of the State
Bar of California for at least the preceding three years or who has
practiced in the federal courts of this state for at least the
preceding three years, and a written declaration from this attorney
stating that the person is qualified to perform paralegal tasks. This
experience and training shall be completed no later than December
31, 2003.

Does California issue a credential or other piece of paper that recognizes and documents this "grandfathering"? If so, would employers accept the credential in lieu of a paralegal certificate, etc.?

driley in Menifee, California: "I was in the Springs in Colorado and couldn't find a job as a legal secretary, so ended up as a Real Estate Assistant...."

Yeah. No surprise. Getting a law job in Colorado is just about impossible - not that anyone in his/her right mind would want a law job. However,

"Now that I'm back home, I have been told (by a headhunter) that I have committed career suicide and my resume screams 'rebel."

Of course it does. You betcha. Anything a headhunter says is true and reliable, right??

Don't believe everything you hear, particularly from a headhunter. As you put it,

"Attorneys, and the legal staffing companies are even worse, all think that unless you show stability and recent experience in a particular state, then you don't have the brains to do their job. Hello, I worked primarily in federal litigation. Besides that, after 20 years, a person knows where to go and find current local rules and procedures."

I should think so. But, again, why bother with this wonderful industry? I read your followup post to the one to which I am responding.

(I can barely type today - bad finger (wasn't that a 1970s rock group? :) ) - sorry)

Displaced Legal Professional in Denver, Colorado said: Thanks for addressing this query, Deborah.

Does California issue a credential or other piece of paper that recognizes and documents this "grandfathering"? If so, would employers accept the credential in lieu of a paralegal certificate, etc.?

_______________________________________________________________

As indicated in the code, there is what is called "Attorney Attestation." It's a form compiled by the State Bar and signed by the attorney who is verifying that you have the requisite experience.

If you google "Attorney Attestation," the form should come up online.

However, I've found attorneys who are unaware of the code and the form (Surprise, surprise, attorneys who are unfamiliar with the laws).